[00:00:11] Speaker A: On today's bonus episode of the Interior Collective, I'm sitting down with Josh Jarboe, the senior vice president of sales at four hands. We are talking all about how to maximize your profitability when working with trade vendors, the best way to leverage your relationships with your trade vendors, and how you can go ahead and get started working with four hands. I'm really focused today on how you can increase your profitability without passing along that cost to your clients. Stay tuned because it's a good one. Ansax has always been known for their premium stone, and coming soon, they are coming out with new stone furniture collections and bathroom consoles carved out of a single block of premium marble. Sign up for ansax
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[email protected]. the interior collective or linked in the show notes join the interior collective Patreon community, and let's continue this conversation. Hello, Josh, and welcome to the show. I am so excited to finally be connecting with you because we have been two ships passing in the night at all of my four hands interactions, and it's just such an honor to have you here on the interior collective.
[00:01:52] Speaker B: Yeah, well, thank you so much, Anastasia. And I agree. I don't know how we've been zigging and zagging in the opposite directions for all of these years, but I'm thrilled to be sitting down with you right now and just really love what you do for the design community and for our industry on the whole. And specifically for forehands. So big thanks to you.
[00:02:11] Speaker A: Well, forehands has just been like a pinch me dream come true partner. And to have you guys here locally in Austin and just everyone I've worked with on your team is just incredible. It's, it's been such a privilege to really get to understand the industry because of four hands, truly. But I want to catch everybody up. So, Josh, tell us what your role at four hands is. A little bit about four hands itself, in case there's someone out there who doesn't know and isn't familiar with forehands yet and really how those listening can expect to work with your team.
[00:02:42] Speaker B: My name is Josh Jarbo. I'm the vice president of sales at four hands, and I have been in this lovely industry of ours for over a couple decades now. So I'm one of those guys and I absolutely love it. So forehands was founded in 1996 and we are a wholesale at that time, mostly an importer of case goods from overseas. And since that time we have developed into a full lifestyle brand. So we've got categories, floor to ceiling, whole home, whole lifestyle in every room of the house. So we've got over 6000 active skus at any given time. And we are introducing 2000 plus skus on an annual basis. We are introducing at markets. So we're showing up at Las Vegas market and high point market. Those are the two big ones for us. We also have a flagship showroom here in Austin, Texas, so we are doing introductions around the market cycle. However, we're also introducing new product literally every two weeks on forehands.com dot. So you're going to hear a lot more about the benefits of getting into fourhands.com dot. I like to quote our CEO Matt Briggs. One of my favorite things that he says is we believe furniture makes people's lives more complete and happier and helps them feel more comfortable in their homes. So I think that's just like a good reminder that what we're doing is really meaningful and is really having a positive impact out there in the world. So I have the fantastic job of being over all of my different sales departments. So I've got leads over everything from our key accounts, some of our large guys and EcoM partners, to our territory friends and designers. So of course, designers. We love designers. From an independent designer that's just getting started all the way up to someone with a large design firm. And we've got very specific ways that we can serve all of those different types of clients and help cultivate them and grow with them along the way.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: Amazing. I think that something that could be really helpful to those listening is to really understand the difference between working with four hands in the sense of purchasing directly through their trade account at places like Creighton Barrel or pottery barn or shop amber interiors. And then there's also an alternative way to work with forehands, and that's directly. So can you talk to us about kind of the benefits of both and why opening a trade account directly with forehands could be advantageous as an additional option for them to really maximize profit in their firm.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: That is such a great question. And you know, as you alluded to, there are benefits to all of the different ways that you can purchase for hands product, whether it is through a trade partner at a retailer to the trade showroom and all of the value add that they have. And there are, there are clients of ours, there's designers that we work with that will often have those trade accounts as well as a direct relationship with us because, you know, sometimes depending on the project or I, the scale of what they're working on, they might want to consolidate a lot of different products or lines through one source. And in that case, there's a ton of value that's added.
[00:05:51] Speaker A: I can even just think about, you know, maybe you're doing a refresh for a client, not necessarily full scope, and just figuring out the logistics of having a shipping and delivery taken care of for you when you're not necessarily doing a full receiving warehouse or maybe it's a distance design project. And to be able to have one of those retailers and showrooms handle those logistics for you immediately, I was like, wait, that would be really helpful.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You're totally right. And you know, we like to have lots of different options for customers to work with us. Whatever meets their project needs or whatever point they are in their development as a designer and the scale that they have. So when it, when a designer does connect with us directly, which there are a lot of benefits. So you get right into four hands.com, which is behind a firewall to the public. But once you get approved through the application process, which I promise is as painless as we can possibly make it, you'll get, you'll get intro emails and onboarding emails and all that good stuff. So watch out for those. And then you get direct access into four hands.com dot. So we have a lot of self service capabilities in there, if that is how you like to work. I mean, sure, if you want to be on your laptop at midnight in bed, then, you know, that's when you place shorters. That's when you're checking on delivery times and things like that. Absolutely. Also with direct access to forhands.com comma, you're seeing those new introductions in real time. So for it to get to an assortment on one of these other players, it's going to take a period of time. But when you're on forhands.com comma, you're seeing the new introductions roll out right then and there. So you kind of have that direct link to the newness. And I think that designers crave newness. They want to know. They're looking to us to say, you know, what's, what's trending right now? Like, what's hot right now? Like, what are you doing interesting with different materials. That's kind of giving you a peek behind the curtain. Also, in joining the forehands trade program, you are able to build revenue and business with us, and we'll help you cultivate that to grow with us, and you'll end up unlocking additional discounts with us, you know? So at the end of the day, and to your point, you're going to have more margin and you're going to be able to make more money on your projects that will allow for this kind of direct relationship.
[00:08:11] Speaker A: We'll dig into. I mean, we're talking all profit margins today and what, what the benefits are of that. So we'll, we'll dig into that a little bit deeper. But to your point about the newness and being a trade member and being able to see that, you know, we all know that, like, you're working, you're sourcing furniture for a project that's not going to be installed and photographed for probably a year, two years at a time. So the fact that there are new introductions coming out of forehands so frequently, frequently is really critical because, like, staying ahead of what's happening next and staying ahead of what your clients could source or get elsewhere. The fact that you have that first access, I think, is really, really critical to your projects.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And we love that. I mean, we get so excited to be able to bring new products so easily and quickly to our customers and not just new product, whole new categories, you know? And I think that we're going to get to touch on some, some, some newness that I've got to share with you today as well. And at inventory levels, too, I want to speak to that because I think that's so important. People want to know, like, where's my stuff? You know, is it in stock? When am I going to get it? And we try to satisfy those questions on the front end as much as possible and then also self servicing from the product detail page. So we screw, we listen to the designers, every single call that comes in, and people ask, you know, a question like, what's the dimension of this? Or what's the weight of this? Or all of these tiny details that gets fed right into our product team? Who then is going to put that on the website? So next time you don't have to call in. You can just go and see it right there.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: One thing you just mentioned was inventory. And when things are going to be in stock, and if it's in stock, I have to say I've ordered a lot of forehands for my own house. We did our backyard with four hands, made a lot of purchases through it. And I have to say, being on the back end of the website and seeing there are seven in stock and there's 20 more due at the end of July, like, it is so clear and transparent. When you were just beginning your sourcing, that kind of blows my mind because I know that there's some frustrating horror stories that can happen elsewhere, and I just have not seen that happen at four hands because that is all disclosed so clearly and accurately from the very initial browsing phase.
[00:10:30] Speaker B: Right. Well, yeah, thank you for pointing that out. You know, we're not perfect just like anybody, but I mean, I think we're doing really the best job at that. And in addition to seeing what's in stock, there are also really cool filters, I think, that are super designer friendly where you can say, well, what's going to be in stock within the next 30, 60, 90 days? Because maybe you don't need it tomorrow, you know, but you're wanting to expand that circle to see what you can get within a certain time. So even the filters are really intentionally thought out to answer your questions and to help you hit those deadlines.
[00:11:00] Speaker A: So real quick, technical question, how long can someone expect after they've applied for that trade account to be accepted? Is like they're a two week review time. Is it like a couple days? What does that look like?
[00:11:13] Speaker B: Well, it is a, it's a day or two, really. I mean, if it's done within, within the work week on a business day, we have a team that's dedicated to just that.
[00:11:21] Speaker A: So after everyone hears this, everyone should be accepted by tomorrow because they'll all go and apply today.
[00:11:28] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:29] Speaker A: A few more technical questions, like what is an opening order minimum? You know, we hear that like, oh, certain vendors are going to have minimums and, you know, I don't know if I'm going to hit that with this project. What are the forehands, opening order minimums?
[00:11:42] Speaker B: Well, I love to report that we do not have opening minimums.
You know, we have this concept of the easy button and we just want to make it as easy and seamless for people to do business with us as possible. So there are no opening minimum orders. You know, you do unlock more discounts as you spend more.
But for our wholesale price point, there are no opening minimums and no quantity minimums.
[00:12:09] Speaker A: Okay. So you get your account opened and you can start shopping as much or as little as you're ready for at that moment. Talk to us about the benefits of working with your sales rep. What exactly can they do or will they do for you? And why should you get to know your sales rep? Because I have experienced forehands being very self service. Like, you can go on shop, place your order, everything's great. But I know that building those relationships with your sales reps can really make a difference, too. When you have questions or maybe there was a damage or, or something, you need to make a change to your design because something changed and you need to get a hold of someone. So talk to us about why I fostering that relationship is going to be beneficial to you as a designer?
[00:13:01] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I'm particularly proud of our sales team. Of course, you know, we do have an incredibly talented group of people that are helping to service. And again, it's how you want to work with us. Sometimes people do prefer, you know, to work just through the website or whatnot and email, but there is always somebody on the other end of the phone that can walk you through projects. So even if you just get into a space and you're like, oh, like, I don't understand this, or you have a question. We have people that are dedicated to you, depending on where you're located, typically, and kind of the size and scale of your business. And we can talk a little bit more about that, too. But there's always going to be someone that's there to assist you, and that's also assisting you in helping work better with forehands. Like they're going to say, like, maybe here's options, maybe you didn't know that you had. So I think it is very beneficial to call in or come to Austin and visit, or if you're a larger design firm and we connect you with one of our territory reps, they'd love to come in and train your staff and really, really get to know you, but I would invite everybody to do that. If you're working with our trade sales center, which is inside, that's for some of our independent designers that maybe haven't yet grown into their own office yet, where somebody might come and knock on the door, get to know them because theyre going to tell you stuff that maybe youre not thinking of. Or to your point, if youre looking at, gosh, if I put all of these projects together thats going to get me over the line to a better discount. But I havent landed it yet. But do I want to quote it at that price or this price or whatever? This is where you can call and really work. This is why the relationship with that person on the other side of the phone is so important, because ill be like, all right, yeah, girl. Okay, you got this project. Let's figure this out. Let's see what we can do to help get you to the next level so you can make more money on this big project you have. And thank you for bringing us the business.
[00:14:53] Speaker A: We'll discuss that more deeply. But Josh, I really appreciate you bringing that up, because if you can be strategic without ever limiting your creativity or limiting your, your design goals, but if you had one big, you know, 10,000 square foot project, or maybe you have three projects, you know, you have coming up this year, and if you start to look at what you'd be sourcing and you can look at those different tiers, which we're going to get into in the very next question, you can explain that for us. But if you can start to strategize, what do I need to spend to get to that next tier? You are potentially increasing your firm's profitability on that by ten, sometimes 20%, depending on what tiers we're talking about, with no difference to your client. And so that's where I really feel strongly. And Lindsey, my co host at design camp, goes into this in depth at one year at design camp, but really feel strongly that talking to your sales rep from forehands and really letting them know what you have in the pipeline, what you plan to accomplish, they can help you get to those tiers before you place those orders when it's appropriate, so that you can be getting that extra 1015 percent before all of those orders are placed. So one quick question. You said that there's no minimum opening spend. Is there a, a minimum, like, spend per year in order to stay at a tier? Or is it like a lifetime spend with the company? How does that part work?
[00:16:26] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. Gosh, we've got so much good stuff to talk about. So, so I, so let me get into the pricing tier program and how that works. I'm hearing that as the specific question at the end there. So everybody does come in at our insider price tier, which is our wholesale, and then based on your revenue, you unlock additional discounts that are off of that wholesale dollar amount as you grow. So the first discount comes at 10,000 in spend and the second discount at $20,000 and then it goes up to 40, $60,000. Once you're up into those kind of what we call enterprise price tiers, you're unlocking additional discounts off that wholesale that can go upwards of 30 plus percent. So pretty significant from your starting place to 30% off of that starting place depending upon the scale. And so the way that it works in terms of an annual commitment is once you level up to a new, more favorable price tier. So lets say that you go from insider to silver, where we do the precious metals, you go from insider to silver. So the very moment that you go from insider to silver, you are locked at that discount level for one entire year. And then at the end of the year of that year, the system will look at the account and see if you've maintained that level or not. I mean at insider, there's no other place to go because that starts at zero. So you're good there. But if you go up until, let's say maybe you hadn't spent the additional ten or you hadn't maintained ten k in that 365 day time period, it will want to take you down a level. However, you can always upgrade, so there's no waiting to upgrade. So, you know, if you hit gold one day and then the next day you get a big project and you've got a whole bunch more orders you can send our way, then you're going to go right up to platinum, you know, right there, right then and there. So there's no, there's no waiting to go up and to gain more discounts. And the second that you do gain your discount, you're locked in it for a year.
[00:18:27] Speaker A: Amazing. So when we're at places like market or working with other, with other vendors, you hear things like imap and stockist and yours are a lot more clearly labeled. It's clear to see how you're, how you're escalating. If someone has a showroom or has a storefront, does that automatically put them at another tier? Is there a benefit to that? Or is it still just based on spend and like it's, it's equal for everybody based on what you spend per year?
[00:18:56] Speaker B: It's, it's the latter. It is, it is truly based on, on what you spend. Im not a big fan of the models where you have a designer track and a stocking dealer track and theyre totally separate and one will never be able to achieve the benefit of the other. So thats why we democratized it really. And it is based on spend and everybody climbs the same ladder. Now that being said, if theres a territory rep that has a large retailer that comes in and similarly to a designer, if they come in and say, well, hey, im going to place an, you know, a $50,000 opening order, then that's with the benefit of working with the rep. It's like, okay, well, I trust you, you trust me. Like we believe in this together. Let me go ahead and apply a discount for you to get that opening order. So, you know, there are circumstances and ways to apply discounts throughout the process, but the standardized system takes everybody up the same ladder.
[00:19:51] Speaker A: That's amazing. That's so clear. And I love just how easy for hence makes it all because it's overwhelming when you show up to market and there's all these different rules and every vendor does it differently. I'm like, y'all are the gold standard on like clear, concise. This is what we do.
[00:20:07] Speaker B: Well, thank you. Yeah. And further to fourhands.com, you can check into my account and see where you are, you know, along the process. And you know, we're developing some new marketing tools to kind of nudge you and say, hey, like you're about to hit this new threshold or you know, hey, congratulations for doing that and thank you for your business.
[00:20:25] Speaker A: That's exciting. It's nice to get that little reminder of like maybe I should just throw in an extra couple side tables and it'll get us there.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, right. And then you called out IMAP. So I'll address that quickly too. So that is just literally the minimum advertised price online. So that has really become, from our perspective, that's become the retail price. So we hold that price point. We hold the standard of that price point very, very strongly. So we have a web crawling tool that goes out and looks for any map violations and keeps it a level playing field. So if youre quoting map or retail to a customer and theyre going to want to kind of price check you, you can feel confident that were out there making sure that that price is held.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: Wow, thats amazing. Especially when you know youre an independent designer, you have a small studio or you have a small showroom to be able to compete with the big box stores or the huge ecommerce platforms. That's really comforting to know that, like, you're watching our backs for us.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. We believe very, very strongly in that.
[00:21:34] Speaker A: This is probably an obvious question, but I'm not clear. So I'm just going to ask just in case when we're talking about our annual spend with y'all. Is that the amount that we are paying or is that the retail amount?
[00:21:48] Speaker B: That is the amount that you are paying.
[00:21:50] Speaker A: Perfect.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: So, yeah. So that is, that is your revenue with us.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: Excellent. Okay, so now let's talk about maximizing profitability and maximizing margins for a project. Can you talk to me about any tips or tricks that you've seen on your end that can really help someone get to that next level? And an example of what that difference really is? Like, why is it worth potentially, I don't want to say hacking the system, but, like, taking it into consideration when you're looking at your year of numbers and it's like, where could we have made more without actually charging our clients more? I feel strongly that this is where that is. This doesn't make a difference on your client's end, but it makes a huge difference on your bottom line at the end of the year.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, thank you for the question. It's a great one. So again, like, just in terms of simplicity and trying to keep it very simple, my recommendation is to get into four hands.com and understand the breadth of the assortment that we have, you know, and the breadth of the design houses that we design into. You know, from a style perspective, we've got everything from more heritage or traditional pieces all the way to more contemporary pieces. We've got some trend items in the mix. From a design perspective, we use so many different resources in terms of materials and countries of origin and just really creative mixes of materials and the quality standards that we pull and the number of rooms that we're in and floor to ceiling. So my recommendation for everybody is just stay tuned into what we're doing, because I think youll realize that you can use forehands more than you currently are. You know, our showrooms have a certain aesthetic. Weve got a four hands kind of vibe when people walk into the showroom, but theres so many products that you can pluck right out of our assortment and put it into a totally different environment. I would really recommend that people dont put four hands in a box. You know, dont think of us as one type of style or even one type of price point. You know, weve got the good, better best in the price points. So, you know, there is something for every project.
[00:23:53] Speaker A: When you do share that list of categories with us, I'll make sure that that's also in the show notes. And if you are a Patreon member, we'll have that as one of the downloadable bonuses as well, just to like, keep it top of mind, because every time I walk into the showroom and I mean, I get special star treatment when I walk in, you guys are so great. And you're like, we're going to show you everything as we're planning design camp together. Um, so I feel like I am really in the know of what's going on at four hands, yet I'm still blown away every time I walk in because I'm like, when? When did you have time to come up with this? I saw you two days ago. What happened?
[00:24:25] Speaker B: Right? Listen, you're not alone. Like, it blows my mind as well. But we have got a product development and design team that's over 65 people strong, you know, and they are traveling the globe all the time. They're going to all the cool markets, they're going to all the museums, they're observing the architecture and also just living their lives and going on hikes. And literally, we had, one of my favorite of the design team came back with just like a handful of rocks and wildflowers from a hike. And it's like, here's a color palette that I want, I want to work into.
[00:24:54] Speaker A: Now we're going to kind of move to a little bit of rapid fire because for Patreon subscribers, we have this outline list of questions that we really advise asking all of your trade vendors before opening an account. This is going to be really handy for you to just have on your phone when you're going to market to ask these questions. Lindsey met Lindsey Brooke design helped me come up with this list, and you are now in the hot seat because I wanted to run through these questions with you. So go ahead and jot them down. But if you're a Patreon member, we'll have it for you, so you can just print it off.
How do you ensure the quality of your furnishings? Like, how am I comfortable putting my name on this that I'm now selling to a client? What materials are used in the manufacturing process? How are you ensuring that quality?
[00:25:41] Speaker B: That's another great question. And I wanted to say something about the scale of four hands. You know, there's a real benefit to the scale of forehand. So weve got offices all over the globe. So weve got direct forehands offices, China, Vietnam, India, Indonesia, Mexico, the states, obviously. So we are very, very close to the production process from the very beginning to the packaging and then how it travels and how it gets to you and how we envision people unpackaging it and how its going to arrive safely no matter what happens to it along the way. We have at the executive level, a vice president of quality. So we've got an executive that's focused on nothing but that, ensuring that quality. We have an amazing merchandising department, too, that has country managers that are overseeing all of those factories, and there's quality control measures that are being taken at every single point along the way. And not only that, even before something goes into production, of course, just in the iteration part of it. They're designing into it. They're designing into something that is not going to break. They're designing into something that is going to last. Go the distance in your customers project.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: This one, I think. Well, I'm excited to hear your answer, because I don't actually know the honest answer specific to forehands, but I think it's important that designers ask their trade vendors this can your products be customized to fit specific design requirements? Like, do you offer, do you offer options in terms of finishes or sizes or materials? And I'm talking anywhere from furniture to the four hands art studio.
[00:27:23] Speaker B: Yeah, great setup there, too, because art studio is the place where we have a lot of custom capabilities. The forehands art studio is a production facility that's here in Austin, Texas. So depending on the, on the type of project that you have, and if you have a pretty decent budget for art, we can work on all kinds of custom stuff for you through the art studio. Now, for the rest of the categories that are primarily coming from overseas in Mexico, we stock a tremendous amount of option for them. So it's not technically customizable, where you can say, like a custom upholstery company where you're going to that's made in the United States. I want this exact cord on this two over two, or whatever the case may be. But we're anticipating what those needs are, and we're going to go ahead and stock that for you, you know, so you'll see again, once you're really getting into the entire assortment, how many options exist so you don't have to customize. And part of our value proposition there is, you're getting all of the look and quality of something that is a custom made piece, but you're getting at an incredible value because we're doing that custom look for it. And I mentioned that how often we're introducing new product outside of market cycles. A lot of that is based on the success of existing product. So if we have a runaway success with a seating collection or whatnot, then immediately it's super easy for us to say, hey, this really hit. People love it. Now let's do it in three different kinds of leathers and another textile, or everybody is really responding to this console. Let's blow that out into a full suite of furniture. So we're always trying to get inside your head, you know, and give you exactly what you want and anticipate what you don't even know you want yet and deliver it to you in stock. Ready to go? No, wait.
[00:29:16] Speaker A: One of the first impressions prospective clients have of your brand is your website. If you don't have a strong online presence to show off your work, though, you're losing out on potential clients. Ideco Studio offers a selection of limited edition website templates designed specifically for interior designers just like you. If you're looking for a more hands off experience, you can add on implementation and professional copywriting, and we'll have your new website up and running within a few short weeks. Visit idcode studio to choose your favorite before it sells out.
So this spring, you guys dropped your first ever designer collab collection with Amber Lewis. We were lucky enough to tour your design studio with her and ask her questions, like, literally a week after the collection dropped. And one of the things I loved about that collection so much is the Wicker banquette. But that is a killer example of something that can be hyper customized because you have so many different pieces. Like, that wicker banquet can fit in any space because there's so many different pieces that can go together to make it work. And I am just, like, desperate for finding a spot that makes sense for me to refurnish it so that I can include that freaking wicker picket.
[00:30:32] Speaker B: It is so darn good looking. And, I mean, that's a good point. The modular pieces that we have, so the bankettes, and there's the Wicker banquet. Amber's. It's beautiful. We've got several other banquettes that you can kind of build out. And then when you get into configuring our different sectional sofas, for example, I mean, that's where you can really go nuts. You can create these massive, massive sofas or fit exactly the small apartment size space that you need. So. So there's a lot of ways to work with what we've got to customize it for you and for your customer, but at an incredible price. Point and install.
[00:31:07] Speaker A: All right, I know we've talked a lot already about how your design team is all over the world and researching and finding inspiration.
How do you feel? Like four hands is really innovating new designs in order to be rolling out that 2000 new skus every year.
[00:31:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's not one thing, right? It's across all of our departments, because sometimes it's technology, you know, sometimes, like for the art studio, for example, it's investing in the highest quality, most cutting edge machinery that's going to create from art studio. Like the textured prints, you know, we can do reproductions, heavily textured artwork that looked just as authentic as the originals. You know, we're launching a new artist this season that I am so excited about. I'll add him to the fun preview that we're going to do. So there's the technology piece, there's AI. We're playing with AI in the iteration phase of coming up with designs. Just, it's a tool that's out there. We need to see what it is. Also materials. So at the heart and DNA of four hands is the materials. And really celebrating those materials and figuring out what's a new, what's something new that we can do with this material, you know, what's a different type of patina that we can play with on this metal? And we've got all kinds of cool new patinas coming out. We love glass. Like, we're leaning into some case glass, you know? So it's going around and seeing not just the materials that are available to us, but people that are innovating, makers and artisans and creators all over the world that are figuring out new ways and new things to do with existing materials. So it's a keen eye for people that are innovating and for the talent that's out there and always having at our heart the importance of the material and trying to figure out what's a new take on these materials, a combination of them, not just materials. It's also design, hera, and looks. And how can we take inspirations from the decades and apply that to our pieces as well and still have it be harmonious and mixable and working in so many different environments?
[00:33:10] Speaker A: When I think of four hands innovation, I just always go back to the art studio. I've had a pleasure of having a couple of tours there, and I have a YouTube video about it. I'll link in the show notes in case anybody wants to get, like a close inside look at what it's really like. But truly innovating to me is the fact that I have six or seven close, personal, dear friends that have art that you guys reproduce in your art studio at the caliber that these fine artists are comfortable with having their work reproduced. I was with Tyler Gwynne recently, and he told me, you know, I'd never done reproductions at all. And when I saw what four hands was able to do, he's like, I have my original and the four hands reproduction literally side by side. And he's like, I cannot tell the difference. Difference. And that is something I think you guys should just be so proud of, because then one of my dearest friends, Eileen Fitzgerald, she told me she couldn't afford to live in Austin as a single mom if it wasn't for working with four hands and the four hands art studio. And so just seeing from, like, a personal side of what it can do to the artist community in particular is that's where I feel like your innovation is just so many leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the industry.
[00:34:29] Speaker B: You're giving me chills here, because it really is, you know, impacting people's lives, you know, and folks that were part time artists that now get to be full time, and folks like Tyler that wanted to see, you know, his art is his heart, and he wanted to extend that into as many people's homes as possible. But he can only paint so many paintings per day, you know? So, yeah, I love that part of the tour. It really is when we have people, we bring them to the art studio, and we go back into the production facility. It's like walking into the Willy Wonka candy room, our Swiss Q printers, like the chocolate waterfall.
[00:35:03] Speaker A: It's magic. It really is. Back to rapid fire. Thank you for letting me go off on a tangent. I just love my artist friends so much, and you guys just treat them so well. But can you accommodate large scale projects? I'm talking, like, hospitality commercial, or is it really, like, what is your production capacity? And is it really more residential, small office, that sort of thing?
[00:35:24] Speaker B: We can, and we do every day. You know, that's one cool thing here, is we do work with independent designers as all the way up to, as you mentioned, hotel chains and things like that. But we have such a huge network manufacturing that we can pretty much pull off just about anything. And it just depends always on kind of the timeframe that you have and the scale of the project and all that good stuff. So you've got additional discounts if you get to projects at scale, and you've got warehousing capabilities, and you can fill and bring in direct containers from overseas, you can get even, even deeper discounts, and we can support those large projects. And then even if you're getting into something, we've got. I've got a team that's actually on the sales side that's a light pd. So if you just want to change the COVID on something or just do some slight modifications to do a customization of a piece, and you can handle some minimum order quantities, then we can fill those needs as well. So long. Quick answer is yes.
[00:36:28] Speaker A: Amazing. Okay, this one tricky because it's just inevitable no matter who you're working with. What is your process for handling customer inquiries, concerns, damages, and anything that comes up after the sale has already been completed? You know, as designers, we want to know, like, how am I going to be supported when I've got the client coming and knocking on my door and I need to get some questions answered?
[00:36:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean, we feel the pain of everybody and we're trying to help solve for it, for sure. So it's, again, kind of how people like to interact with us. So there's a lot that folks can do just right by logging into four hands.com. and that's where you can kind of submit a claim. And oftentimes we'll want some photos of whatever happened to the piece. And it can just happen very, very quickly. And the turnaround time on that can be very quick. If it's a cut and dry and easy thing, they can get those turned around in 24 hours with the solution. If it's something that's more complicated or your comfort level is having a conversation with somebody or having someone come in, come in and visit with you to see what's going on there. If you've got a rep in the field, those are other options as well.
At the end of the day, we always stand behind our product. And as I mentioned, it's designed with so much intention, and then it's manufactured with so much intention. It's packaged with so much intention that if it gets to you, damaged, you know, we're going to. We're going to make it right, and we're going to make the process as painless and easy for you as possible.
[00:38:01] Speaker A: You had mentioned earlier that four hands has offices in all of those countries that it operates out of. Can you talk to us a little bit about what you do to ensure your products are ethically and sustainably sourced and manufactured?
[00:38:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes, absolutely. I mean, this is something that is really important to us, not just overseas, but here at home as well. So all of our factories are. We're always in a process of doing social audits with our factories. And so that's maintaining working conditions. I mean, it gets down to details like the number of bathrooms that are on a production floor to make sure that everybody has easy use there and enough time to take a break and all of that good stuff. So we're constantly training on and performing those audits, and then we try to go above and beyond. I mean, people love working at forehands. We have a culture that's famous for being a great place to be, and it's not for no reason. So even here in Austin, for example, or the warehouse, for example, so we'll have the warehouse employees, we'll bring in dentists for the day, and so we'll do free dental exams and work in the warehouse, and then overseas, you know, and factories in India and Vietnam will set up and do free eye exams and provide them with glasses or whatever they need.
[00:39:24] Speaker A: I just love that so much. And, like, if that doesn't make you feel better about ordering even more from four hands, like, I don't know what could. Like, that is so many steps above and beyond, certainly what is required, let alone what is expected. And I'm really appreciative that you shared those examples of the amazing programs you guys are doing.
[00:39:43] Speaker B: A. Yeah, I mean, we take care of each other. You know, that's what our employees stick around, and people have smiles on their faces. And I think that you feel it when you walk into our showroom.
[00:39:52] Speaker A: I can absolutely say, personally, I feel that when I walk into your warehouse or the production facility at the art studio, you walk in thinking you're going to be in, like, a warehouse, and it's going to be loud and dark and dingy and gross, and it is so bright and airy and cool. Oh, it's never hot in there, even on the hottest days here in Texas. Texas. It's so comfortable. And I just remember walking through and being like, wow, this is such a pleasant place to work, even in, you know, the physically laborious parts of the production process.
[00:40:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. You know, at any given moment, you'll see, like, a pop up of food trucks. You'll see, you know, we've got the four hands olympics, and we get a budget to come up with our team names and have t shirts made. And, you know, I. But we do fun stuff.
[00:40:41] Speaker A: That is super fun. Back to business. What.
What are your payment terms and conditions for placing orders? How does that work? Is there a deposit? Is it paid in full? What should we plan on when working with four hands?
[00:40:55] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. Again, we try. We're trying to keep it easy and logical and commonsensical. So, so typically, if someone's coming in as a brand new customer, everybody starts off with credit card payment. Once you are a customer with us, yes, you can build into terms. So weve got net 30 terms and we start you off at a certain credit limit with net 30 terms. And then thats another lever that we can use in our relationship with you to say, hey, it looks like were really starting to flow more product than your terms are allowing for and we can understand your business and whats going on and how youre growing. And then with that trust, we can start raising that credit limit to support the business.
[00:41:33] Speaker A: Amazing. Can you talk me through instances where that net 30 terms make sense for a designer? Is that typically if someone has a retail space that it makes the most sense? Or how could, how could they really benefit that? If they're an interior designer with interior design clients, why would that be helpful for them?
[00:41:54] Speaker B: You know that it's a tool that's really helpful when you're really flowing more product, when you're really consistently flowing more product project and you just need an open pipeline for smaller, independent designers. The credit card works very, very well, of course. And everybody loves the points that they get on that project basis.
Terms is really, we recognize the opportunity to increase our business with somebody with terms. When they're consistently flowing a substantial amount of business, then we can offer that as a financial tool to help maintain and grow that business.
[00:42:30] Speaker A: Real quick, let's talk about your product testing for safety and durability. I know you mentioned you have all of those quality controls in place. We didn't really talk as much about safety specifically, but can you go into that a little bit as well? I know we talked durability, but like, how are we making sure that the bar stools don't tip over when the two year old's climbing up? That sort of thing, right?
[00:42:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm the first to admit that I'm not totally fluent in all of the acronyms that float around for everything that we do. But definitely suffice to say that there are stringent tests that are going from the sit test, from the weight test. So everything will have limits. So again, if you go to the product details page, you'll see different limits on things and different usages on them. And that's not just made up information. That's based on how we tested it to those limits. And if you are in a situation where, you know, you want a contract grade on a piece, you know, we, we are, this is a little bit of a reveal. I might be getting ahead of myself, but, but we, we are, we are getting into contract grade testing for products as well. And that's always an opportunity for existing products.
[00:43:42] Speaker A: Amazing. One last rapid fire question before we get into what's coming up for four hands, the categories we can expect to always find you in. And then I feel like you've passed the rapid fire questions with flying colors. But how do you communicate updates and progress on orders? Like when something does end up being backordered that wasn't supposed to or something along those lines, how is that communication happening? How can we know that we are able to communicate with our clients effectively, efficiently? So we're ahead of any potential scheduling problems that may arise.
[00:44:18] Speaker B: Yeah, right. This is another big one. So again, with your ability to go on to your, my account page or to forhands.com. and that's going to tell you what your, what ship dates are and expected ship dates. And then once something ships, it's going to give you the tracking information and the carrier and all of that kind of, all that kind of good stuff.
You know, we are, we are improving process and we're approving some of our tools on the backend so that we can be more proactive so that you don't have to go in and look to check on something that we're going to give you an email that says, hey, take a look here. Something has changed.
[00:44:55] Speaker A: Would you say that the stock inventory counts that you get to see on forehands.com when you're browsing before you've even placed the orders? What would you say is like, the accuracy rate of that? Like, if you saw that something was in stock or, you know it's going to be there, it says it'll be available in two months.
How often are there exceptions coming up to that?
[00:45:19] Speaker B: Right. Well, so the inventory levels, for the inventory levels are updated every 15 minutes. So we've got real time inventory that's happening there. So if something is showing in stock, it means that we have, it's within our control. We've got it in our hands at this point. It is in the warehouse and here's how many we have. Now, inventory moves quickly, so you gotta move on it, too. And, you know, put your name on that stuff for the product that we're saying, you know, this is gonna come in, in a certain amount of time that is based on all of the logistics infrastructure that we have and tracing all of those things. Now, of course, then you get into what's outside of our control. So we're constantly, every day, updating. We also have a vice president of logistics, you know, so we have an executive level person that's monitoring all that for us because we bring a lot in through Houston, and there's storms in Houston, and there's doc worker strikes in LA, and there's container shortages. There are these things that do come into play that are outside of our control that will push things out. And in those cases, we absolutely do our best to let customers know, hey, this has been pushed. But anything that is within our control is very, very accurate. And even those that are incoming, it's going to have to be some sort of crazy act of nature or docs or Covid or gosh knows what else that's going to get in the way of it, where we are really pretty accurate, with the exception of this unforeseen circumstance.
[00:46:45] Speaker A: Amazing. Thank you for clarifying that. Okay, talk to me about what you have coming up. So we are like, two weeks out. Yeah, two and a half weeks out of Las Vegas market. When we're recording this, this will airtain. We'll probably drop this episode right at Las Vegas market so it'll align. So, Josh, give us all the. All the tea of what we can expect, what you guys are dropping, and I'd also really love for you to run us through all the categories that you are in for someone who doesn't realize, hey, we're not just talking case goods.
[00:47:18] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Okay. All right, cool. So some categories and new introductions that I'm super excited about. And so let's start with what's happening with the art studio and with our capabilities of production there. So, wallpaper. So we are introducing an entire assortment of exclusive imagery and patterns on wallpaper and murals. So that, I think, is so super cool. So we're taking some of our really best selling, like, large format abstract art pieces and exploding them up into mural size installations. So you can make, like, this massive statement wall that is going to read custom, you know, and you can get it at a very attractive price point. The other thing with the wallpaper, and this leads into my next category reveal, is bath and damp rated product. Super, super, super excited about this one. So, bath vanities. Really great looking bath vanities, you know? So we're taking some of the best materials that we use and some of our best selling silhouettes from our furniture collection.
[00:48:22] Speaker A: Okay. I have to admit, I knew wallpaper was coming. Liz had, like, told me that a while ago. But the bath thing, there's such a need for beautiful vanities that aren't totally custom. Like, I am so pumped for this. I did not know that you were going to drop that news.
[00:48:40] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, I am, too. And it's part of, you know, the whole home and our lifestyle extending into every aspect of the home. And it's part of our understanding the way that people want to live and they want to have a beautiful experience in every room of the house. You know, I mean, I think since COVID people realize that they are truly in an exchange and conversation with their environments, and it should be a happy conversation just like this one.
[00:49:05] Speaker A: Well, and I feel like there's so many projects out there that aren't necessarily down to the studs or new construction, and, you know, just swapping out the vanity for a client and doing new tile is going to completely transform their space for them. And it doesn't always budget timeline doesn't always accommodate for, hey, let's have someone come in, a millworker come in and do completely custom cabinetry for this bathroom. So I am, like, so stoked for this.
[00:49:34] Speaker B: Exactly. And so with the vanities, we wanted all the add ons, right? So we started damp reading, testing our lighting and our mirrors, and there's a. There's a ton of our product that's already passed all that test. So now they're going to have that flag on there, and you're going to be able to search for it on our website. So you're going to see not only the vanities that can go into the bath, but the wallpaper I mentioned, the intro, that's all damp rated, so that can go into bath. We have a huge assortment or got a great sized assortment of mirrors that are going to go into bath and lighting.
[00:50:05] Speaker A: Any other surprises?
[00:50:06] Speaker B: Well, I'm super excited about an artist named Paul Meyer that.
[00:50:11] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh, you guys got Paul.
[00:50:13] Speaker B: You got Paul. Yeah. He is so. Oh, my gosh, his work is so, so beautiful and really just breathtaking. And he works with such texture and just his hand is so apparent in everything that he does. And then that's taking those originals and putting them through that four hands, magical art studio process that reproduces to the tiniest degree every little intention that he put into the artwork. All of the depth and texture and thumbprints and orse hairs and whatever the heck Paul is using in his material.
It's so incredible. We just introduced it to the sales team this past week, and everybody is already buying it all for themselves.
[00:50:56] Speaker A: I was going to say, wait, can you send me a link? When do I get to purchase this. That's huge. I've gotten to admire his work close up out round before, and, wow, that really says so much about your capabilities. In order for Paul to sign off on reproducing that work, and he.
[00:51:15] Speaker B: He will be at Vegas. So I'm hoping when people are listening, listening to this, they either have had the opportunity to meet him or they are going to meet.
[00:51:23] Speaker A: Well, now I'm going to have to swing by.
And also talking about wallpaper. Are the showrooms, is the showroom going to look totally different now that we have wallpaper? Can we expect to see some of that installed?
[00:51:35] Speaker B: 100%. You're definitely going to see some wallpaper moments and the mural moments. That's going to be. I mean, that's going to be a real. Wow. Momentous, I think, for everybody.
[00:51:44] Speaker A: That is so cool. Okay, if you could just walk us through a few more of the forehands categories that we might not necessarily think of right away, I think that'd be so helpful. I have a couple in mind, but I'm sure that there's some that even I'm not aware of.
[00:51:59] Speaker B: So again, it's full home, full lifestyle, floor to ceiling. So the rugs on the floor, the case goods, the accent pieces, the upholstery, and inside of upholstery, there's a whole nother world. Sofas and sectionals and motion. Motion furniture. You know, that's one category that people often think of us for motion furniture. Cause we do real. It's so good looking, you wouldn't know that it was motion furniture. All of the buttons and switches are hidden. That's upholstery. And then we're in the dining room. We're in the bedroom. We're in the living room. Now we're in the bath. We are outdoor. We have a really incredible outdoor furniture collection that is thriving. Of course, the art we've been talking about on the walls and the lighting fixtures hanging from the ceiling and, oh, my gosh, what am I forgetting?
[00:52:43] Speaker A: I have to say, the outdoor collection has really blown my mind. We have been so lucky to literally pick all of our outdoor furniture from the four hands collection. And we don't have. I'm probably not supposed to say this. We don't have a covered area outside. Like, we don't have a protected area. And don't. Don't do this for your clients. But I have my four hands furniture out there not protected, and just in the elements, including some upholstered pieces. And here it is, 18 months later in Austin, Texas. And it looks like we just had it delivered. It has held up so well and it literally feels like a hotel. I just, from someone who lives with it, who has a dog that doesn't like to lay on the ground, has to sleep on furniture even when outside the durability, I have been very, very impressed with because outdoor furniture just seems like the kind of thing that if you don't have like a proper veranda patio that's enclosed, protected from the elements, it's just one of those things you have to assume you're going to have to replace every two years. And that just hasn't been the case with our forehands pieces.
[00:53:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, thanks. Thanks for the advertisement there. Love it. But I mean, again, that all plays back into how much intention goes into these products and the fact that we don't bring anything to market that we don't already believe in. You know, we're not just going to throw some stuff out there and see how people respond to it and then maybe you're maybe not producing it. Once weve introduced it at market, it has passed everybodys. This is on my a list. This is what works. Were going to go ahead and invest in it. Were going to go ahead have inventory either in stock or coming for it by the time we introduce it. So its the belief in the product and the hard work that it takes to bring it to market that gives it that longevity.
[00:54:24] Speaker A: Okay. I know were getting close to running out of time, so I have two logistical questions just so people know how they can really work with you. To those listening, how remind us, how can they open that trade account?
[00:54:39] Speaker B: Right. So you're going to go to our website and using the backslash, the interior collective. So forehands.com, back slash the interior collective, you know, all spelled out all one word and then you're going to go to become a customer and that'll take you through the application process. And then, you know, it's pretty smooth sailing and we'll be right back in touch with you.
[00:55:01] Speaker A: Amazing. And if someone's listening to this on the shuttle to Vegas market right now and, you know, they didn't pull out their computer, can you, can you sign up for an account when you are at market?
[00:55:15] Speaker B: We have a whole station dedicated to it. Just, just walk on in and one of us will help you get set up. We'll just sit there in front of the computer iPad with you and make it happen and get you shopping on the floor right then and there.
[00:55:27] Speaker A: Perfect. Okay. Any final advice on how designers can increase their profit margins by working thoughtfully with select vendors like forehands.
[00:55:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's about just get in the know with what we've got going on, because I think that we can meet a lot more needs than maybe some folks are thinking of us for. And when you really understand the depth and breadth of our assortment and how much we're bringing to market and that you can apply it to all of your projects, it becomes, you know, and still maintain your own design aesthetic. You know, the way that you mix it and blend it in with other things that you're using, you will find that it's easy to build revenue with forehand, you know, and you're not going to be a one trick pony. It does. It's not going to look like all of a sudden all your projects are forehand showrooms. You know, you will find that there are ways to utilize sport in every single project at every price point and style that you've got, and then that's just going to continue to unlock benefits for you. And also, I loved how you mentioned working with your account executive, with your sales rep. Work with them. They've got tips and tricks, and they've been through your pains before, and they can help you along the way and help you grow and make more money, 100%.
[00:56:41] Speaker A: And just to piggyback off of that, just remember that youre sales rep is there to sell you furnishings. So they, they want to help you get that deal done. They want to help you get to that tier to where you're comfortable spending more. So never be afraid to ask questions. Never be afraid to have them help pull the, all the bouquet sofas that they have available. They're there to help you source, to make your job easier.
[00:57:06] Speaker B: 100%. 100%. And reselections. I mean, we get a ton of business when other vendors let customers down and they're like, oh, my gosh, I'm up against it. I need something in x amount of time, and it needs to be this big in this color. What do you got? You know, and we can help you with those reselections even.
[00:57:23] Speaker A: Well, Josh, this was fantastic. Thank you for disclosing so many secrets. Thank you for making working with forehand so incredibly easy. I just, if you haven't gone into, if you haven't dipped your toe and working directly with a trade vendor yet, I just cannot genuinely recommend four hands enough. And I hope that this conversation, a, made it feel a little bit less intimidating, and B, also make you much more confident in knowing the company that's behind the product that you're sourcing, because as with everything that we do here at IDCO and at design camp, we're very selective with our partners, and we don't need to partner with anybody. And being able to partner with four hands is the greatest honor of my career. Seriously.
[00:58:12] Speaker B: Ah, well, I mean, thank you so much for that incredible compliment. And back at you, Anastasia. It's just a pleasure working with you and what you're doing for your community and for the industry on the whole has been needed for so many years. I'm so glad that you're out there doing it, because it shouldn't be scary. You know, it should be easy. People should be able to make money. Things should be pretty. They should have a good time doing it.
[00:58:36] Speaker A: 100%. Josh, thank you so much. I will probably see you. I'll be in Vegas for a quick 24 hours trip, so I'll make sure to come see you guys at four hands, and I'll for sure see you at design camp in August.
[00:58:50] Speaker B: Cannot wait. Thank you so, so much.
[00:58:52] Speaker A: Thank you. We'll talk soon.
To have these conversations. A big, huge thank you to our production team at Ideco Studio. And Quinn made as well as this season's presenting sponsor, Ansax. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DM's, and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible. Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey, and this is the interior collective, a podcast for the business of beauty.
