Episode Transcript
Anastasia Casey 00:00:05 Hi, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is The Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living. Often overlooked, children's bedrooms and play spaces are a pivotal foundational part of their development architect and interior design duo, Damian and Britt Zunino, principles of Studio DB, a multidisciplinary firm in Manhattan, are experts at crafting colorful, whimsical family homes that are both refuge and wonder. Today, Britt and Damian walk us through the fundamentals of elevated kids spaces. We'll take it to a deeper level as we discuss incorporating color and pattern throughout a home as well. Prepare to take notes in this masterclass of comprehensive, intuitive and joy provoking design. Hello and welcome to the show, Damian and Britt, it is so wonderful to have you.
Britt Zunino 00:00:56 Thank you so much for having us. We're really excited.
Damian Zunino 00:00:59 Yeah, thank you
AC 00:01:00 <laugh>. We're recording this midsummer, and I know you have a bit of a thunderstorm rolling through, so please excuse us if you hear a little grumbling in the background. It is not our stomachs <laugh>, but I'm really excited to go ahead and dive in. Before we get into today's topic of designing for really intentional, elevated kid spaces and how you mix pattern and color, I wanna just get a better foundational understanding of how the firm came to be, how you decided to go into a multidisciplinary firm and how is that working for you? So let's start with why did you decide to open a multidisciplinary firm?
DZ 00:01:38 Well, it happened a little bit sort of unintentionally. We had an opportunity to design a project together, this is 16 years ago, and really enjoyed collaborating. It was a retail design project and I have an, I've an architecture background, Britt's an interior designer and we sort of felt that there was this disconnect between those two and that you sort of have architects who would design a space and interior designers who would fit them out and that, you know, even if it was in the same office, it was two very independent sort of sections of an office. And we really felt that it should be one cohesive design process. So we, you know, we establish our team from the beginning of a project. We're, you know, we're obviously married and we love working together. It has its uh, challenges at moments, but it's really awesome and rewarding. And I think that we're always looking at the different at, you know, projects at different scales and different levels of details. But 'cause we're doing that together and from the very beginning, you know, we really feel like it creates a very cohesive and strong project. So that's sort of, I dunno.
BZ 00:02:35 Yeah, and I think we're always pushing each other and looking at things from a different perspective. So I think it makes for a better project.
AC 00:02:42 So 16 years ago when you did that first project, at that point, were y'all already married or were you not in a relationship and then it came after? I'm just interested in the trajectory 'cause I know a lot of our listeners are like, should I bring my partner in? Should I not bring my partner in?
BZ 00:02:59 We were not married at the time, but we were married a few years later. <laugh>, yeah, yeah. But I feel like, you know, it's funny, we talk to people all the time and they, you know, Damian actually has a lot of friends from architecture school that went on to start firms together and I think that's very common in our industry, our best friends also have a design firm. We have a lot of friends that do that. And then we have friends who are like, there's absolutely no way I could ever work with my partner. And I think it's important to recognize that, you know, maybe that's the right fit for certain <laugh> relationships and that's okay.
AC 00:03:36 Absolutely. Well I love that you've made it work.
DZ 00:03:39 Thank you. I can't imagine doing it any other way, yeah.
AC 00:03:43 <laugh> So sweet. So okay, I understand that there's the architecture and design firm in the same studio. How does that corporate structure look? Where do the teams cross over and are they distinctly separated or how congruently does everything work start to finish?
DZ 00:04:03 So we have people, I mean, when we hire, we really look to find people that have an interest in both. And while they may have more of a formal training in architecture or interior design, a lot of people in our office like studied architecture undergrad and then did an interior master's program or vice versa, which is hard to find. But the structure is that while we have people sort of, that are on the interior side and on the architecture side, um, the team on every project is established from the beginning and everybody's involved in every meeting. There are differences in like deliverables from the two sides and who's in responsibility, but we, but really everybody's design, everybody's involved in the design process from start to finish.
BZ 00:04:38 Yeah, I think when we, we look to build a team, we really want someone who's just interested in the, in design in general. So like Damian said, like if, if someone, maybe their strong suit or their educational background is geared more toward architecture, so they'll be responsible for filing sets and those kind of things. And maybe there's someone who has more of an interiors background or even like a furniture design or a fashion background where they're more textile driven but they're constantly interacting and they, from the very beginning, I mean there's we and, and that includes senior level designers in our office and juniors and anyone in between or interns. Like everyone has a seat at the table and if you have a great idea then we can run with it. So it's really great.
AC 00:05:22 That is so interesting because one of the things I have found myself most admiring about your studio is you have a very diverse team and I feel like in this industry that is not always the most common. And it's something I noticed immediately as I was researching your studio, part of what you just said, saying that it's not always someone who has this specific skill set and it's someone who's interested in design as a whole probably contributes to that. But can you talk me through a little bit of your hiring process and what you look for to be able to build such a well-rounded and diverse team?
BZ 00:05:57 Well I think like first and foremost, like we're looking for someone who's really passionate. You know, I think we, what we do is really fun and exciting, but it's a lot of hard work and I think you just have to have somebody who's willing to, who really loves design and is really passionate about it and like is willing to get their hands dirty because we're also just a very, you know, when we're doing installs, like I'm moving furniture, everybody, there's no like, there's no like fussy, I don't know, like I'm too whatever to do this. Like everybody gets into it. So we really look for someone who has a really great attitude, who's really passionate about design. I really like hiring people who have really interesting backgrounds. So we're not necessarily looking for someone who's taken like the traditional path. I haven't taken the traditional path.
BZ 00:06:44 And I think that sometimes is more interesting. You have different life experiences, you look at things in a different way, like have different perspectives. Like we're just, we're not looking for someone who necessarily fits the mold, it's really just about their passion and they obviously have to be talented and do great work. But I just think it's important that we have like interesting people working in the office and we really want nice people. Like that's a really, we, we have a really nice office. Like everybody is super respectful and kind to one another and having that culture is really of utmost importance to us.
DZ 00:07:19 I think to that point, I think because it is such a collaborative process within the office, it's really not about ego or individual, it's really a collective design. So all of our projects and that's where I think the diversity of background and design experience or expertise is so important because we're really looking to, I think we feel like our projects are stronger because there's a diversity of viewpoints and that are brought to the table.
AC 00:07:41 Well I admire it so much and I definitely am excited to see where that continues to grow because it was certainly something that really stood out to me. So as an architecture and design firm, how has the combination of disciplines improved the quality of the projects that are coming to you?
DZ 00:07:58 I think that people that prospective clients really appreciate that it's one team from start to finish. And so it's not two uh, disparate teams trying to meld their ideas together or you know, coming in at different times of a project. There are rare occasions where we do just an architecture, just interior design project, but really our model is that it's one design process and one, one team from start to finish. And I think perspective clients really do appreciate that and it eliminates any finger pointing, it eliminates, you know, potential delays or things not fitting. So it's a model that has that I think people do really appreciate.
BZ 00:08:35 And I think, you know, there's a diversity to our work too. So not every project, certainly not every project looks the same. And I think that's very appealing to clients too, potential clients and I think they're looking to us to do something different. They're not, they don't want to have a project that looks like everybody else's. And I think we're seeing a lot more of that where people are coming to us very specifically to have something different. So that's really fun and exciting.
AC 00:08:59 Do you feel that by having both disciplines in house, it potentially saves your clients certainly time I would imagine, but also potentially budget and can smooth that out at all? Because I feel like from my experience and watching our clients go through having to work alongside an architect versus having an architect with them, that certainly causes delays and some things need to go back and be redone because it wasn't fully comprehensive. Do you feel that's true?
BZ 00:09:32 Yeah, absolutely. Um, 100%. I think that if, you know, I think if you have an architect and a design like separate offices and they're like a great team and they've worked together in the past and they understand each other, I think, you know, that can definitely be smoother. But I think in general, yeah, if you have two separate offices or two separate teams thinking about things very differently or even if they think they're on the same page, there's always a lag of communication. I think even if the client is, you know, being good and like proactive about involving everyone. Like, you know, every, some things fall through the cracks. So we feel that we have more control over the process. You know, we're looking at the architecture budget as well as the FF&E budget and all those interior finishes and we're, we have this, you know, master spreadsheets and we're moving money around, you know, like maybe we're cutting here so we can do something really special on the interior side and, and it'll make more of an impact. And you know, Damian's always stealing our money for H V A C and all that stuff, but whatever. No, it's good. We have these conversations in the very beginning because we're looking at the furniture budget at the same time that we're designing the space. So like it's just all much more organized and I hope, and the plan is that things are, you know, cost savings for our clients.
DZ 00:10:49 Yeah, certainly in time and time is money and but also, yeah, we'd have much, we have a very strong grasp of budgets from the very beginning and so it's,
BZ 00:10:57 Yeah, I mean especially, I mean, so we do projects all over the world now, but I, we have projects so many of them in New York and carrying costs are really expensive. I mean really expensive. So you, you know, we have to be really mindful of that when we're doing a project.
AC 00:11:13 So as a couple of a young family now, 16 years later and it's a different look <laugh> look for you, how has that informed the way that you design for your clients? Because I know that family spaces, particularly in New York, is definitely a big portion of your business. And so how has that really affected the way you design?
BZ 00:11:34 Well, I mean I think it's hugely impacted our work. I mean we have a range now of, our youngest is eight and our oldest turns 18 on Tuesday, which is wild. So we have now gone through, we have four children, so we have seen all sorts of age development and development just, you know, it's certainly informed, um, how we design because I think we can look ahead, um, and anticipate what our clients may experience in 5 or 10 years. And you know, when we're designing a space, like we want it to be impactful at that current moment, but also really wanna make sure that it ages well or we're thinking, you know, 10 steps ahead and hopefully our experience with four kids, this taste evolve and change and we've experienced that will help inform the design. <laugh>.
AC 00:12:24 What do you think makes designing family or kids spaces particularly unique in Manhattan or in New York City and in a super urban area? 'Cause I feel like that's very different than people who are designing in suburban homes.
DZ 00:12:39 I mean, one of the first truly unique kid spaces that we did was for a couple that had moved from California and had a big, you know, backyard and property with playgrounds and I mean very creative, uh, or yeah, creative family and it, they wanted to sort of bring that to the city and obviously there're very different space restraints, um, and restrictions and, but I think it was, it was this really amazing challenge of like, how do you create a, you know, a zip line and a climbing wall and like lofts and slides all within, you know, a structure of the confines of a New York City apartment. And I think it, you know, it's, there're definitely I think, you know, space is the biggest challenge and structure and ceiling heights and things like that. But I think everybody is looking to, I think one, there's like creating a safe space for your kids where they can kind of be, you know, energetic and creative within the confines of a home. But also I think just something that, you know, that allows 'em to feel like a kid and you know, I think sometimes it's, you know, the home can be too formal or it can be, I don't know, you know, don't touch that, don't, you can't sit on that and that's not what our work is about. And we want everybody to feel comfortable and especially for kids to have a space that really feels like their own. So,
BZ 00:13:53 And I think in New York it's so hard because like Damian mentioned, obviously the interior spaces are much smaller and, you know, New York isn't, it isn't necessarily like amazing weather all year round <laugh>. So you don't necessarily have the opportunity to take your kids to the playground all the time or like the sports fields are few and far between. And so you really do need a, a space that can address that, you know, to make for active activities. And then like you mentioned, a safe, like quiet space. 'cause New York is also like incredibly overstimulating and so sometimes kids just, you know, they need a place to carve out that's quiet too. Yeah. So we try to think about that as well. Yeah,
DZ 00:14:34 It's interesting. I mean, I say like we do a lot of like climbing walls and monkey bars, but they almost always lead to like a little reading nook or something, you know? Yeah. So it is that, that balance I think is really important. It's like, yeah, there's an energetic space, but it also leads to sort of private, you know, quieter moment too.
AC 00:14:49 That's so thoughtful. What, if you could pick, what are three key considerations that you would advise designers to take into account when designing a family home? And maybe that is in New York City and maybe it is in a more suburban area, but what are things that you would start with foundationally considering?
BZ 00:15:10 Well, I think creating spaces where people can actually be separate. I think we, that was emphasized in Covid when everyone was forced to live under like in small quarters for a long period of time. So I think being able to carve out spaces within the apartment so that family members can have space. I mean, we have four kids, so there's six of us and a dog and a cat all living under one roof. And sometimes you just need to be able to get away from each other once in a while. But I think at the same time, having special places that your family can be together and act and be together comfortably. Like Damian mentioned, not in an environment where everyone's like, don't touch this, like, don't sit on this because that just adds this level of stress that I feel like is unnecessary. I think you can still have beautiful things, but considering fabric choices, the type of furniture that you have, you know, I don't think everything has to be like, covered in rubber corners on the tables and like done, you know, like, like watered down.
BZ 00:16:12 I think you can have really beautiful elevated things if you're mindful about the form and mindful about the fabrics that you use and just like thinking it through and the durability of things. We're probably a little bit more casual about that. You know, I like stone, the, uh, ages and patinas and I'm okay with that where some people aren't. And I, and that's, so I think actually something to, uh, take into account is just who are you really as a person? Is that gonna, because you're living in this space. So we ask a million questions of our clients and like really try to understand what their level of comfort is because some people are, you know, just easier about things. And at the end of the day, some people aren't and they say they are, but they're not <laugh> and they really don't wanna have a mark on something that's brand new. And I, I don't know. So it's really asking a lot of questions and really trying to understand what type of family they're, and how they're gonna engage in the space. Yeah. And designing specifically for their needs and not, uh, making assumptions that that's the way that they're gonna live. So
DZ 00:17:11 I would say if we needed one third very specific thing, I would just say storage. Like every, you know, kids have a lot of stuff and that like, to be a kid, it's fun to have toys and to play and to build, but it's also really helpful in a family home to make sure that there's somewhere that it can be put away. 'cause especially in New York where they're, you know, there, you know, there probably isn't just a dedicated playroom like, you know, a lot of these spaces serve multiple purposes and so like, you know, having, making sure that things can get magic away.
BZ 00:17:34 But smart storage, because if you overcomplicate storage like little kids, they don't put stuff on a hanger. It's not gonna happen. So if you design this like, beautiful piece of expensive millwork and every little thing has to go in a hanger for a little kid, not gonna happen. Like think preschool Montessori, like you need a lot of hooks because you, you really wanna teach your kids to be an active participant in it. Like not just a place where you can put their things like they need to learn how to put it away. And so, but it has to be easy. Like I think we, we, our kids went to this amazing preschool and I feel like of all of design life lessons, <laugh>, we probably learned, uh, in uh, downtown little school where we learned all sorts of, uh, ways to get our kids to be, um, independent and try to, you know, clean up after themselves doesn't always happen. But yeah, I think easy storage is good.
AC 00:18:29 That is brilliant. And I love the concept of easy storage. 'cause I think that is true even with my husband's closet. So <laugh>
BZ 00:18:38 Can’t take two steps. <laugh>,
AC 00:18:39 That actually is a great segue to my next question. And I feel like children's spaces, specifically their dedicated children's spaces, their bedroom, maybe their playroom often end up being possibly excluded from the project budget. And they're like, well, that's gonna evolve and over time and we don't need to put any focus there. And I think fundamentally it's actually really foundational part of a child's upbringing and that that is really important. So how do you balance a child having ownership over a space while staying true to the home's aesthetic?
BZ 00:19:16 Yeah, I mean, I do think it's really important for kids to have ownership if they're excited about it. You know, some kids don't care, but I think most kids do. And I think the way we would approach it, and we approached it this way in our own world because we were, we're doing a little changeovers in our kids' rooms and we gave them an edited selection to choose from. Like, we asked them what they wanted and it was like, okay, you have two different sort of schemes or two different directions. And then they feel like they have ownership of it, they feel engaged, but they, but you can edit the direction somewhat, so not give them like free reign so that everybody's comfortable. I think that that's a good way. And also just, I think I, I know we've had situations, we've done it with our own kids where there's also like a little budget and it teaches them, you know, well you can have this, but you can't have that. And like, this is, you know, I think it's helpful. I don't know, there's all these like life learning skills and I think there's opportunities for kids to be a part of it and feel excited about it. It's still staying true to the like, aesthetic of the home. So,
AC 00:20:21 Damian, did you have anything to add to that?
BZ 00:20:23 No, I mean, I think,
AC 00:20:24 No, is an acceptable answer, <laugh>.
BZ 00:20:26 Well, yeah.
AC 00:20:27 When you are presenting a children's space to a client, do you have any tips or sort of practices that you put in place when presenting? Do you ask for the children to be involved in that place? How do you, at what point do you get the child's feedback when you're working directly with essentially the parents in a project and like, how involved are they and how do you guide that process?
DZ 00:20:55 I mean, most of the time it's filtered through the parents and, you know, we'll start with very basic things like favorite color or favorite animal, understanding that these things may change, you know, five or six times during the course of just the design process. So, but it's helpful to know like maybe they're interested in sea creatures or like, you know, they really love celestial, you know, like, you know, like that like, so I, I think that it's helpful to kind of get those starting points, you know, and I think we sort of work from there and then kind of create a, create a design scheme or a couple design schemes that, you know, play off of that, but may kind of, you know, can evolve or can be something that it isn't too stuck in a moment as Brett's saying, you know, you understand kids age and evolve and they're, you know, gonna be a year older by the time they might move in. So it's, you know, it's important to very much factor that in. So, and it,
BZ 00:21:42 It just depends on the family too. Like some families are like, let's do it. Like we're, you know, like they're only young ones and they really want it to be playful and they're very open to interesting ideas and some, some clients would rather be a bit quieter. But I think that when we have situations like that, we definitely encourage our clients to maybe think a little bit outside the box and, and understand that. I think the biggest reason why they say that is because they're fearful of investing a lot of money in something that might change. I mean, that's at the bottom line is like, they don't wanna spend money and then a year later or when they move in, their kids have moved on. So, you know, we try to talk about ways of making it playful that are short, you know, paint and maybe they don't wanna invest in wallpaper. It's an expensive thing to do. I mean, it's really impactful and really amazing, but sometimes just a really fun color. Like, let's not do white, let's do something fun. You can always paint over it. It's not a big investment. Um, so we try to help guide them with that.
DZ 00:22:43 Yeah, I would say, you know, a lot of times, you know, we'll do like a presentation that, 'cause we, you know, we start with public spaces and then we'll work in the private spaces in the bedrooms. And so like the presentation for the kids' bedrooms, sometimes the parents, we'll bring the kids in or a lot of times they'll take it back and they'll like kind of review like their preferred option with their kids and maybe they'll say, I, you know, this is great, but can we have more tigers? Or something like that, you know, <laugh>. So, you know, I, I think every project is, how it plays out is a little bit different. But that's sort of the fun of it too
AC 00:23:10 When you're giving your presentations to the parents, whether that's in person or like on a zoom call mm-hmm. <affirmative>, are they getting a digital presentation as well and they take that back? Or are you always presenting like in person with tangible items and then they take those back and potentially show their kids?
BZ 00:23:26 We always, so I guess a little bit of both. 'cause we're doing projects. We do a lot of projects that are outside of New York and in that case we would do a digital presentation in addition to shipping materials that are fully labeled. So we'll walk through the presentation, we'll photograph everything before it leaves the studio or, or we send a duplicate set of copies of, um, fabrics and whatnot, and those are sent to our client. And then as we review digitally, then um, we can go through and they have things to actually, um, tangible items to, to play around with. Um, but we do present often in person. Like we, we do try to put it on the schedule if it's okay with our clients, they're not traveling or they're to, to do it. I think in person is so much fun and sometimes the kids come or sometimes they just bring it back. It, it kind of depends on how much they want them to be involved in that <laugh>.
DZ 00:24:16 Yeah. But I think our work is so much about materiality and the, and the tactile nature of the, and so I, it's really important that those meetings are in person or that the clients have the materials in front of them when we're discussing the presentation, but there's always a digital presentation that they take home with them as well to dwell on and provide additional feedback.
AC 00:24:31 Yeah. That's so helpful, thank you.
AC 00:24:36 One of the first impressions prospective clients have of your brand is your website. If you don't have a strong online presence to show off your work, though, you're losing out on potential clients. IDCO Studio offers a selection of limited edition website templates designed specifically for interior designers just like you. If you're looking for a more hands-off experience, you can add on implementation and professional copywriting and we'll have your new website up and running within a few short weeks visit idco.studio to choose your favorite before it sells out. I'd love to dig in a little bit more, actually, this is a super technical question, but like, on the actual shipment of the materials, what is it like a box? You said everything's labeled, but is it just like a box and that's closed up? Do you have any like, kind of elevated nature to it that you've put together? I know that people ask me all the time, they're like, we need to make our samples look better when we ship 'em off, design us something. So I'm like, what do you do <laugh>?
BZ 00:25:33 It's funny because we've been talking a lot about this internally about like, do we, we haven't done this yet, but it's like, do we create like a custom Studio DB box and like all of that, like currently they're shipped in files. So each room, um, is in a separate file, um, sleeve. So they're often in these like pretty file, um, files that are, and then every material is labeled and then within that file is that specific room. So everything and like a key to each, um, to each material. But yeah, I do feel like it's, we, we've done it for a couple projects where we've sent things off wrapped in a bow and it's like, it's nice you get this like beautiful present. I mean it's like such a, I think a nicer experience for the client and it takes little effort I think to put that together, so
AC 00:26:25 Yes, maybe that's my next product design is figuring out a multiuse shipping box for designers to send out those samples.
DZ 00:26:34 Please keep us updated.
BZ 00:26:35 <laugh>
AC 00:26:36 I'll, I'll circle back around. So you talked a little bit about instead of wallpaper, maybe you go with paint. I'd love to dig in a little bit more as to what pieces are worth investing in, even if you know that they might not survive the kids long term.
DZ 00:26:54 I mean, I think that areas that we feel safest, you know, recommending to clients invest in are like lighting because it's one, the kids, especially if it's on the ceiling, they're not gonna, I mean in theory it, it's happened but <laugh> hopefully they will not damage it. So that's an opportunity to do something, you know, specific and that is pretty safe, you know, built-in millwork. I think sometimes we'll do like really playful knobs that could, you know, or, or poles or things like that that could evolve over time easily just by, you know, being changed out. I don't know.
BZ 00:27:24 I mean, I think nice mat mattresses are important. I mean, not necessarily advocating for like very, very fancy ones, but like a good mattress. A nice bed
AC 00:27:35 Pause you right there. Talk about beds. 'cause there's like, you've got a kid in a crib and then do you go to a toddler bed and then you go to a twin and then they're gonna need a queen. What do you advise your clients to do? If they're going from that like toddler crib stage to big kid bed. Do you skip any of those steps and just invest in the big bed? Please tell us everything.
DZ 00:27:57 I was gonna say, at least when we're doing a plan, we're always making sure that it can evolve so we're not building in a piece of millwork around a crib. Only that, you know, when a, when a, that a full-size bed or a queen-sized bed couldn't eventually fit in. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, I think we will be looking at furniture plans and room layouts. We're always sort of considering how it will evolve. And so, you know, we might create a plan of this is what it's gonna look like now and this is, you know, how it will, how it can lay out, you know, in, in five or 10 years.
BZ 00:28:21 I will say in New York, I think we're somewhat limited because I think most children are somewhat forced to have a twin sized bed as they're not.
AC 00:28:30 I was gonna say they're probably not getting queen beds <laugh>.
BZ 00:28:33 No. But if they, but if they can, I, I think we typically though kids tend to stick to a twin and then if we can do a little trundle for sleepovers and that sort of thing or bunk beds or, I think that that's something that we're, we do a lot of.
DZ 00:28:50 Sometimes we'll do like a, a bunk bed that's a twin over a full too, so kind of get everything
BZ 00:28:56 Yeah. Or a twin bed that can eventually turn into maybe like more of a daybed or a little sofa so that the pieces have a bit more longevity. So that's important.
DZ 00:29:05 Yeah, I mean in terms of cribs, a lot of the cribs that we spec are convertible to toddler beds too. So, you know, that can evolve. And then when they're ready for a twin, it just gets passed down to their younger sibling. Yeah.
BZ 00:29:16 <laugh>. And you can always just reuphol- If it's made, well, you can reupholster it, it can live somewhere else. Yeah. Which is really great. So I really, really, were trying so hard to not buy just furniture that you're going to throw away. And I, I really, I see a shift in the market for sure. But I do think the more we can do that just for sustainability reasons, the better. I mean, I really would rather we're really trying to talk clients into investing in pieces that are not just gonna get thrown away. 'cause it's just, it's just so wasteful and just using fabrics that are not going to deteriorate and or using, you know, furniture that you love that you know, that you can keep and just reupholster and put somewhere else. And I think that that's important, so
AC 00:29:57 Speaking of materials, do you have advice for designers sourcing kid-focused spaces? Like what materials do you feel are tried and true and can stand the test of time while feeling elevated and integrate well into the rest of someone's home?
BZ 00:30:12 I mean, I think using natural materials like wool that can really be cleaned. I mean we do, we do a lot of outdoor fabrics. I think it's always like with the caveat, like some are good and some are not. Some really do break down and it feels like a good idea at first. And then I think you have to, like four years later it starts getting a little yucky. So, but then you look at vintage furniture that has like, you know, wool, a wool upholstery that's lasted for a million years, you know, and that looks, it still looks beautiful. So things that you can clean and those sort of natural materials, washable, cleanable, really important.
AC 00:30:46 Do you have a rule for what finished paint you would put on walls in kids' spaces?
DZ 00:30:51 So I would say that generally even in kids' rooms though, we'll do just traditional mat paint because one, it's easy, easier to touch up. And two, it is, it's not that hard to clean. So, but if you do need to repaint a wall, it's not, you know, the flatter the paint, the easier it's to touch up. So
AC 00:31:05 Do you have two or three vendors that you frequently source from, whether it be textiles, wall coverings, or furnishings itself that you think are doing kids appropriate products really well,
BZ 00:31:18 I mean, we work a lot with Rebel Walls, which is a wallpaper company based in Europe and they print really fast and they have a million designs and they're, their wallpaper's incredibly durable and it's really, it's a great price point. So they're really fun to work with. You pick a pattern, it's scaled for the room. It's not, most of them are not like a typical repeat, it's like more of a mural, but it's a lot of bang for your buck. So I def you know, we do a lot of kids spaces, um, and our wallpaper installers love the wallpaper. They think it's like the best wallpaper. It's really interesting to install. I think we work with, um, our friend Caitlin McGauley, she's a painter and she does a really beautiful line of wallpapers that a lot of them are very, they're very whimsical children's patterns that are very sweet. I love her work so much. So we, we do a lot of children's spaces with hers and with Calico wallpaper, which is based in New York and they do some really great kids, kids wallpapers as well, so, or kiddy, but like really elevated, like whimsical patterns, which are really great. So those are three that we work with a lot.
AC 00:32:22 Do you, are you typically building furniture custom for your kids spaces or are those coming from trade vendors or Crate and Barrel? Or where do you usually go to for that?
BZ 00:32:34 It's really a mix. We definitely do a lot of custom. I think it's an opportunity with our projects to sort of flex those skills of designing furniture. So if our clients are open to it, we're, we're really on board to do that. But we definitely work with trade vendors. We do some custom stuff with Duck Duck. They do really great furniture and then it's, there's a wide range. I mean, we're really not like, we'll use trade we'll big box retailers if it feels like the right fit and that's okay. Yeah. So we're, we're really open. Again, I wanna make sure that it's not some piece that we're just, you can throw away. However, we're not snobby about design. So if we find an amazing little table for Ikea, fantastic. Like that's great. Yeah.
AC 00:33:20 So outside of the private children's spaces, how are you incorporating them into the public spaces in a home? And do you treat that holistically or is it like, there are definitely children's spaces and then everything else is wearable and efficient, or do you bring them specifically into the public spaces in a home as well?
BZ 00:33:44 I think it really depends on the family because, um, I think that some families really want to create some more adult spaces that their kids can interact in, but they still want them to feel very polished. So in those cases then it's really about materiality so that it can be really beautiful and functional and a place where it's very elevated, but it's, you know, they're not gonna worry about things so much. Like you can clean the fabric, you clean the rugs, but then we have certain families who, uh, like everything is open, you know, so then there might be some fun like, whimsical pieces of furniture or elements within like, main living space. And that's fine too. Really just kind of depends on the family. Yeah,
DZ 00:34:25 I would say most of the projects, like even the, the, you know, if it's, even if it's a sort of formal living room, it's still very, you know, they're still very family oriented spaces in that the, you know, they, they may be very elevated, but they're designed that the whole family can enjoy them and use them. And so yeah, that's where was talking about, you know, it's sort of about fabric selections and materiality so that it's durable and you know, they can lots, everything's stain treated usually. So it's, you know, it can, everybody can enjoy it. Although the adults I think spill more than me.
BZ 00:34:52 It's true.
AC 00:34:52 <laugh>,
BZ 00:34:55 I think that almost every phone call we've ever had where it's like, I need emergency stain removal, it's usually because of an adult spilling something <laugh> it's not the kids <laugh>.
AC 00:35:10 What is the least expected location you have put monkey bars into a project? Do they ever get to leave a bedroom or are they always in the kids' space? Ooh,
BZ 00:35:22 That's a good question.
DZ 00:35:25 We did a zip line down a hallway that connected all of the bedrooms, including the adults' bedrooms, the most exciting place. We've done a slide that connected two floors of a, of a, of a townhouse, but monkey bars, I mean,
AC 00:35:41 I feel like you guys have to do a hallway with monkey bars straight down the hallway would be so fun.
DZ 00:35:46 Oh, I love it. I think I'll make <laugh>
BZ 00:35:49 We're doing it.
AC 00:35:50 So I'd lo Sorry. Oh, go ahead please. No, please go ahead, Britt.
BZ 00:35:53 Oh no, I was gonna say we're doing them on the ceiling, but I guess it's more of a playroom and this house we're doing upstate, but it's a whole room that we have them all over.
DZ 00:36:00 Yeah, you can get from one side to the other on monkey bars
AC 00:36:02 <laugh> that I just love the creative solutions that you come up with because you are more confined in your space. And what you were saying, Damian, about having to create a space in a city for kids to be able to be kids and still incorporate into your living. And then Britt, as you were saying, the fact that you can't just go to the park necessarily year round. I think that that's such, it really shifts our thinking of how to incorporate your children into your space. So I'd love to shift the conversation a little bit to really talk about color pattern and texture throughout all spaces, because it's a definitely consistent theme in your projects. Where do you even begin mixing color and pattern? Because I feel like there's a shift in the industry and things are getting more colorful again, which we love, but it can be a little intimidating for someone to be getting on that bandwagon.
BZ 00:36:53 Yeah no, uh, totally understandable. I mean, I think it's funny. A lot of people come to us and they say they love color, but they really don't know where to begin. And so often what we recommend is like, if there's a specific, we start with one thing and that thing could be anything. It could be maybe a painting that they love or it's a piece of fabric and it could be, you know, like an interior's textile or it could be clothing or, I mean, a lot of times we'll go, we'll look at like, I'll go through like vogue.com, like where you're looking at fashion shows and like, I'm like, oh, like the way that this outfit is styled or the color combinations on this from this like runway ensemble are like really irreverent and exciting. Let's start there. So we'll take a, like a specific inspiring image.
BZ 00:37:40 I mean it could be a painting, like I said, maybe a photograph, maybe it's just the way that the light is like shifting and a photograph. And then we use that as, um, this core palette that we build off of. And often when we're looking at a home, I think what's really important is that rooms can have, I think they should have distinct identities, however, I think it's important for their, a thread to be woven throughout, you know, like a color story to be woven throughout the room. So maybe one room is much more saturated, something else could be a bit more pastel, but it's still the same palette. You're just, it's different varying, um, degrees of color. At least that's, that's where we start. And I think like, like I said, each room can have its own identity, maybe skew a little bit in a different direction and bring in different accent colors to make one room unique. But I, we try to kind of keep a palette woven throughout. Yeah. So that's way, that's the way we do it <laugh>, but that's the way, yeah, that's the way I try to think of things. I think it's nice to start somewhere because otherwise it's, I mean there's so many beautiful colors. My kids are always like, what's your favorite color? I'm like, well, I don't really have a favorite color. I have a favorite shade of every color <laugh>, but I don't really have a favorite color.
AC 00:38:53 How do you express to your clients, this is our color palette, your whole house is not going to be purple. Mm-hmm.
BZ 00:39:02 <affirmative>,
AC 00:39:02 We're gonna carry color through in these different ways. How do you articulate that to kind of start to push your clients further to making choices with color?
BZ 00:39:13 I think they need to visualize it. I think they need to see it in person because I think it's a really difficult thing to just articulate to someone unless they like just fully trust your vision and they kind of walk away. Do you know what I mean? So I think it's really important we’ll scheme a, you know, multiple rooms and have them entrees with physical materials. People can really see how you flow from room to room. And sometimes we'll kind of color code it in, in plans. Like we'll lay things out as things kind of evolve and roll out over the house. But I think it's important for people to really see it. They have to see it in person and it's really hard to um, navigate that conversation.
AC 00:39:53 Do you have any advice for when a client starts to get a little bit of cold feet and you can see that they're asking to water down the design because they are worried about the pattern or color and they're like, I just want something I'm gonna love for a long time. And that means it needs to be all neutral?
DZ 00:40:10 It's definitely a challenge that comes up a lot. I think that it's important that one, I mean I think we, you know, we're we listen and we really want our clients, you know, to feel like they're home. But they also do generally come to us because they've liked projects that had color. So sometimes it's sort of reminding them that like, you know, you, these are like, we start with inspiration images, so kind of like going back to like, here's what you would respond to really well to, and like this is what it'll, you know, look like sometimes we do scale a little back a little bit. So it's more that the colors and the art and the pillows and things that are a little bit like, hey, you know, it can evolve. But we really do try to kind of keep them, you know, confident in the vision I'd say.
BZ 00:40:48 So yeah, and I think identify where it's coming from because I think, you know, so much of our job is trying to dissect like where the feedback's coming from. You know, like sometimes what a client will say is not, I don't know, it's not actually addressing the issue. So we're, we always are trying to like, but do they really mean that <laugh> or do they, is it something else? So we're always trying to figure it all out and hopefully by identifying what is sort of like triggering, being cautious, like trying to get to the bottom of it and then we can work through it. Like, like a design therapist like that is Yeah, <laugh>,
DZ 00:41:29 That's a big part of it.
AC 00:41:31 That is your second job therapy.
BZ 00:41:33 Yes, for sure. <laugh>.
AC 00:41:35 So while you do brilliantly use color and sprinkle it throughout your projects, they definitely still feel super inviting and calming and relaxing. And that's something you had mentioned that because there's so much stimulation in New York, you need that kind of refuge at home as well. How do you find that balance between daring color or pattern with relaxed inviting interiors?
BZ 00:41:59 I mean, I think for someone who wants to have a dose of color but not have it sort of in their face all the time, we can identify certain rooms that can be more focused on color. I mean, I think the easy thing is to, you know, I think that's why like people do bold wallpaper and powder rooms or in bathrooms, like it's places that you're not gonna be, um, experiencing all the time. So I think that's like an easy answer. But I think, I think if it's done well actually, I think that like if it's some more of an immersive color experience instead of sometimes like just shocking doses of color, I think actually that can be even more relaxing. It's funny, we were, we're doing, like I said, we're doing a little renovation of our apartment in New York and our daughters, we are trying to figure out wallpaper or a palette in their bedroom. And for our two youngest girls, I share a room and they're like, we just want it to be really calm, mom, I don't like the bright colored wallpaper. And I was like, oh, you're breaking my heart. It's okay. I understand like the need to have some spaces that are calmer, but it's like a pretty, like all over color. It's just a little softer.
AC 00:43:07 So actually that circles me back to a previous question a little bit. How do you keep the overall aesthetic of your home consistent through color pattern and materiality as you transition to those children's spaces? You mentioned having an overall palette that weaves throughout the whole house. Do you consider the children's space part of that whole house weave? Or do the kids spaces like we can go ahead and make that a red room even though the rest of the house had, you know, a more earth toned?
BZ 00:43:35 Yeah, I definitely think we're more flexible with kids spaces. I think that if, like, it's exciting to them and they love it, I think that they're, we do view those often as, or I, I'm open to things being a little different. I'm not gonna, I'm not so strict about the whole thing to be totally honest. I mean, it's nice when there's flow from room to room, but it's also nice to like have a space that you walk into and it's totally different. And so it's a surprise. So we definitely don't, I'm not too serious about it, I guess if, if it feels like the right thing for the family and for the child and the home, then it's, it's all good. Good to go.
AC 00:44:08 Britt, as we were coming up with questions for today's interview, I had asked my team, we have a lot of moms on the team, what questions they would have for you both. And Carmen, our copywriter, had actually asked this and I thought it was so smart. You touched on it a little bit earlier, but I'd love to expand on it. What is your advice to designers and design enthusiasts who are listening to create a home that you're really proud of? Without it being so precious it causes tension with your children?
BZ 00:44:36 I mean, I think what's important when you're designing a home in general is that you should buy things that you love, things that give you joy, things that you, that make you feel good about it. And I think that what's really important is to just think about I, I mean I just, I don't, we don't do like, I don't love fussy things. So I think when we're, it's just like if, just think about how your family really the I'm gonna start over 'cause I feel like I'm like li li. Okay, well I think what's most important is the experience and how you feel in a space. And I think that that should be taken into consideration and just if you fall in love with something that's like, feels too fussy that you're afraid of everyone sitting on, then I just feel it. You're setting yourself up to being stressed out and setting yourself up for sort of family and failure dynamics, <laugh>.
BZ 00:45:30 So I think it's just really important to, to think about that. I, I I also think though, if you do fall in love with something and it's okay to tell your kids like, you know, don't touch the whatever and like they need to learn boundaries as well. Like not everything can be a total free for all. I think that kids, it's okay to tell kids that they can't jump on a certain piece of furniture or whatever because they're special and like maybe there's a story behind it and it gets them involved in, you know, the background of the why. I think the why is really important. We talk about this a lot actually in our office. So it's really just important for everyone to understand like why you believe in something and why you are advocating for something. And even just explaining to your kids like the decision that you made and like why maybe they can't climb on it. But I don't know, I think it's just important to just think through the whole dynamic of the family and not to buy something that is gonna stress you out if someone touches it. Yeah. So yeah,
DZ 00:46:23 I think to that point of like the story of, you know, that we want our projects to feel certainly not fussy, but to feel layered and collected too. Yeah. So like the, you know, the more that there's a story or a connection to the piece or that makes the home, you know, that it's stronger. And I think that, you know, the more the kids are involved in that or aware of it, I think that helps as sort of the, the, the, the design of the home is sort of part of the family story.
BZ 00:46:48 Yeah. Well I think we talk about also just managing expectations. I think you really have to manage your own expectations of what's gonna happen to things. Like if you, things are just gonna happen, you know what I mean? Like, things are gonna happen. Someone might spill something, you might have a new puppy <laugh>, you know what I mean? And like just, I don't wanna say lower the bar, but just understand and manage your own expectations of how the space is really going to operate.
AC 00:47:14 I think that someone who's coming to Studio DB or really hiring an interior designer or architect at any phase is probably in a financial place where if something is to happen, that thing can be replaced. And so whether that's with the identical item or at that point, maybe it's a different item that is more affordable, but I think that is something to consider to those listening that A) can always be replaced or repaired. But also if you're at the point of working with clients who are bringing you on, obviously you're respectful of their budget and you're not trying to have them replace a lot of things, but it's certainly different than someone who is doing their home themselves. And those pieces need to last them a really, really long time. So that was such a clear and eloquent way of reminding people to just remember the story behind it and bring the kids in to understand that story as to why that piece is so special. As we sign off, I'd love to know what Studio DB has in the pipelines. Do you have any fun, exciting news coming in the next year or so?
BZ 00:48:17 We, I think, you know, it's, we have some really exciting projects happening outside of the United States, which is really fun. We have an incredible project we're working on in Italy for a former client that's on Lake Como, which is kind of like a pinch me moment for, for the most incredible client that we've worked with for many years and it's her family home. And so that's really incredible and it's really been a really fun, uh, and educational experience to be working with a team abroad. We also have two projects in Canada right now on the west coast, which are also just like a different environment. Um, new, new rules to play by. It's really fun just learning how to, you know, interact and ship furniture and the logistics and all of that has been really a great experience. And I think like going in the next year we're really focusing on exploring, like doing more product and collaboration. So that's the next, I think new chapter for our office, which is really exciting, is to, we have some things we can't quite talk about, but we have some things in the works, but we're really gonna be focusing on some product in the coming years. So it's a very, very exciting new chapter for us.
AC 00:49:29 That is so exciting. Congratulations. And if you need any volunteers to do those site visits, I am completely available to schlep things for you.
BZ 00:49:39 I know it. Thank you. It's <inaudible>.
AC 00:49:41 Britt, Damian, this has been such a fun interview. It was great to get to know you better. Thank you so much for joining and when those product collaborations come out, we will be sure to update those links in the show notes so when you are allowed to talk about it. So congrats on that and we can't wait to see what's come next.
BZ 00:49:57 Um, well thank you so much. It was so nice, um, talking to you this morning. Thank you for having us.
DZ 00:50:00 Really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you
AC 00:50:04 <laugh>. Thank you Damian. Thank you Britt.
BZ 00:50:07 Thank you so much.
AC 00:50:11 You can follow Britt and Damian on Instagram @studiodb and view there. Impressive portfolio at studiodb.com. Make sure to follow along to see how that Lake Como project turns out. If you missed any of the links mentioned today in the episode, you'll find the full transcript and sources included in the Show notes. You can find more details about Studio DB's process outlined at idcostudio/podcast. As always, thank you so much for listening. Please leave us a review on Apple Podcast and rate us on Spotify. If you're on YouTube, you can catch us there as well. Until next week, I'm Anastasia Casey. Thank you for being a part of the Interior collective.
