[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey and I am so glad to have a returning guest with us today. Julia Miller is the founder and creative Director of Yond Interiors, a full service residential design studio based in Minneapolis that serves clients across the country. Her work has been featured in Arc Digest, the Wall Street Journal, Rue Sunset, and more and more. She has been recognized by House Beautiful's next wave and the expert top 40 beyond yawned. Julia is the co founder of Brunel, a custom furniture shop rooted in craftsmanship, and the founder of the Studio Table, a mentoring program built around the real operations of a working design firm. When Julia came back to the show, we had planned to dig into the systems and processes side of her practice. But in the lead up to this conversation, she brought up something she felt was even more foundational. And honestly, I couldn't agree more. Today we're talking about creative mindset. What it actually takes to get into the frame of mind to do your best work, how to protect that creativity throughout the lifecycle of a project, and what happens when the pressure of running a business starts to crowd out the thing that made you want to do this in the first place. This one's a little different, a little more personal and I think it's going to resonate deeply if you are still the one holding your projects together. There is a better way. Materio is the project delivery system built specifically for interior designers. One connected workflow from concept to handoff to billing. Interior Collective listeners get 50% off their free
[email protected] hello Julia, welcome back to the show. I'm so excited to have you back. You are consistently a listener favorite because you drop the knowledge like crazy. We will get all, all the way into the deets of the knowledge you are dropping over at Studio Table that you recently launched later into the show. But I'm so grateful that you took time out of your busy schedule to drop some more knowledge upon us here on the show.
[00:02:04] Speaker B: Oh honestly, it's all the pleasure is all mine and I mean that sincerely. I feel like not growing up in the industry learning everything basically through podcasts and other people.
Like this kind of information sharing is so important to me and something I will always make time for and feel like helps everybody in the industry get better. Like I listen to the show regularly, I learn so much myself. So the opportunity is really awesome.
[00:02:32] Speaker A: It feels so full circle. You were at our very first design camp. I was back when it was, you know, the little five cottages and everybody was shoved in bunks, and he and I were schlepping concrete tables around between each session.
[00:02:48] Speaker B: And it's that heavy thread I.
I've heard from all of them today.
[00:02:53] Speaker A: It's amazing.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: Every day, every single day, there is something happening on that text thread. So, yeah, it's truly the gift that keeps on giving.
[00:03:03] Speaker A: And that's. I mean, that's six years later, six and a half years at this point. Incredible.
[00:03:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: Okay. When you and I were first talking before this episode, you mentioned wanting to expand on the concept of. Of mindset work, specifically how you get into the frame of mind to do your best creative work.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:03:24] Speaker A: Where did that idea come from? And why does it feel important to talk about right now? Because you know me, I'm not a super woo woo person. So what does this mean?
[00:03:35] Speaker B: Okay, good question. And I would say even though I was a clinical social worker before and doing this work now, I also am not a super woo woo person. I'm like a get it done, move on, put that accomplishment on the board, recognize it for a second, and move on.
But I think as I've gotten older and I've realized making meaning and finding joy in this business particularly, it requires a mindset that can accept a lot of bad information at one time. And it also requires a lot of seeing your future, what you want to manifest, what you want out of this career that you spend a lot of your time doing.
And I think as a mom and as someone now who's been in the industry long enough to see where I could be going, I realized, like, oh, time is precious.
Things don't happen on accident.
And at some point, even though it feels like it might be an impossibility, you get out of like the day to day grind. Right? Like, now I'm. Now I have the capacity to see far beyond I've ever been able to see. And I realize that, like, oh, there's so much to be done with how I think about things that are happening today, but also about what I want to be happening in our studio and in my personal life and fulfillment in the future.
So it's kind of. I feel like maybe it's a midlife thing, like maybe every woman in their 40s is thinking this way.
But also too, the concept of, like, how we do our best work came from a business coach I had hired a couple of years ago.
I felt like I was just like, you know, spinning my wheels, doing everything, all the things all the time, and not really having like a North Star. Like, what am I after? How do I Communicate to clients what we're excited about and what we bring to the table. And through that work, he helped me realize like what I'm passionate about is doing our best work, putting out the thing that not only I'm excited about, but something that I feel like I've done with my whole heart and that is take caretaking or being interested in what my client has brought to the table too. So that phrase, doing my best work is really the foundation of how I think about what projects we take on, how our staffing looks, time off, you know, all of these sorts of things, like how do we continue to put out things that we're excited about that also excite our clients.
[00:06:15] Speaker A: That is so fascinating, Julia, because when, you know, we were talking about this interview and the topic, I was definitely, this is so me. I was definitely thinking about it from a like client deliverables perspective, like doing our best work for our clients specifically. And from what you're saying, that's definitely a large component and that's like the end ultimate goal.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: But thinking about mindset in your business and visibility within your business itself and what you want like your life to look like within that.
Yeah. So I'm gonna have a lot of follow up questions that you were not prepared for based on, based on that like mind blowing realization from question one.
[00:07:01] Speaker B: So the truth is, as a business owner, your life is a lot of your business, whether you like it or not. And I think there are ways to minimize how much that impact is negative in your life, especially if you're having a hard time balancing other commitments.
But I think at some point, in order to get to a place where you have a business that you are proud of and that reflects you, you have to give a lot of yourself to that. And that requires, I think, a lot of passion.
But passion from my perspective is not super sustainable all the time to get you through all of those seasons of business ownership. So it's a transition for me too in thinking, you know, it's a broadening of what's out there.
[00:07:46] Speaker A: This feels like such a kismet conversation because just since having Cameron, who's 18 months now, no matter how hard I fought it and said no, like my business and what up built here, like is not the most important, but like that is my passion.
I could not fight the fact that like my passion has felt watered down, if you will, since having my daughter, because not that that's more important, but like that is where my passion's focus has, has shifted to. And the last few weeks I've really been working on. What can I pick back up in my business and take back on for myself? What deliverables can I be doing that will fuel that passion that used to be there when I was working till 3am on the couch every night, working on the business.
So, yeah. I'm so glad we're having this conversation today. Me too. I'm hearty stoked. Okay, so how would you describe what, like, your best creative state actually feels like? Is it an energy, a kind of focus or a space of focus? Is it a physical feeling and do you think it's something you can reliably access and call upon, or does it still surprise you?
[00:09:03] Speaker B: I feel like it's a discipline. It's. It's as much as a, like, energy, like a feeling, but it's also a discipline that I think you have to practice and you have to make time for. Because similar to what we were talking about, time is fleeting. And especially if you're a principal, your time is precious. Like, you get pulled in a lot of different directions. And creativity, I think, often is the one that falls to the bottom of the to do list because it feels optional somehow.
So I think for me, you know, the scene has to be set. Like, in order for me to feel like I can get in a flow state creatively, you know, I have to have a certain amount of my to do list done right. Like, I have to have carved out time for this, where I know that this is exactly what I'm doing and this is the only thing I'm doing.
But also, too, I think I have to set myself up to know what I need to be doing as well. Which I think in this business, sometimes it's hard because you're like, oh, I'm just looking at all these images or like I'm pulling 500 side tables. And so I think part of it is also a laser focus on what that's what you're creating. So specifically, like, what is the vibe? What is the end ethos, what have you sold to your client? All of those sorts of things.
But also what do you need to accomplish during this time for it to have been a productive session? But for me, honestly, it looks like wearing these headphones, listening to a sports podcast or listening to a sports game I've seen before, that's just like background noise or like something completely unrelated that, you know, is another part of my life that I enjoy but isn't related to this. So it's like still a tuning out of of everything else to focus but, yeah, it's definitely an energy. But in order for me to feel that, like, I can take that energy, I need to have scheduled myself to a place to enjoy it.
[00:11:07] Speaker A: Sports podcasts are going to get such a bump this week after hearing your interview. They're going to be like, oh, shit, I should have been listening to sports this whole time.
[00:11:15] Speaker B: It works so well for me. I think there's a whole. There's a bunch of genres that I know other people work to, true crime or whatever, but for me, it's sports.
[00:11:24] Speaker A: Yeah, it feels like low stakes. Like, yeah, yeah, totally.
[00:11:28] Speaker B: And also, too, I love sports because I feel like people who are in sports are equally as passionate and as dedicated to what they're doing as we're doing. So it feels so respectable. Like, it feels like I know what not. I mean, not like I'm an athlete, but like, I know that someone has worked so hard to be at this position in their career, and so it feels like, symbiotic in that way, too. Also, I love sports gossip, so that. That helps.
[00:11:57] Speaker A: Something you were mentioning that I think is so important to really have our listener style in on is the concept of in your creative time, truly defining what that goal of that creative time is and setting those parameters. I personally feel like when you have a box to work within, that's actually when the greatest creativity comes. When. When you have limitless options, that's when from a productivity standpoint, things slow down. But also from the actual output of the art, there are infinite options. And sometimes having those parameters can really help get you further in your end result.
[00:12:39] Speaker B: Oh, totally. Because you have to put yourself in such a specific place to. To. To think about a project. I think, like, anybody can find beautiful tile, but the work that we do is storytelling. It's. It's connecting things to a person or a place that requires you to kind of get in that state of mind. And in order to do that, you have to have parameters around, you know, not only what you need to create, but also, like, how to get there, you know, like, for me, it's very clear. Like, okay, I can look at images, but after a while, images don't help me anymore. You know, Like, I need to look. I need to get back to my client and back to their property and all that kind of stuff. But I. I completely agree. And that's why I think designers are also super bad at designing their own houses, because there's no. There's no way to tell you. No, there's no parameters. So the client parameters and really, when you are carving out creative time, having those parameters, I think creates the best output.
And is it the most efficient, which can be difficult to make your creativity efficient.
[00:13:57] Speaker A: Julia, your past career life as a social worker, I think, really has set yond up for being so known for work that's deeply personal and also so people specific.
I don't think it's as much a signature aesthetic, at least when you start to really learn your studio and it's. It's based on a response to each individual client and their family in their home. Does that approach put more demand on your creative mindset than a studio with a recognizable signature style every time? Um, and is that something different for you every time?
[00:14:44] Speaker B: That's a good question and something I've thought about a lot because I think having a style that was just like repeatable, instantaneous, would be easier or more efficient or at whatever.
But at the core of it, it is not who I am and not who I could be if I wanted to be, partially because that connection with our client is, to me, what makes meaning out of this career.
Even if, you know, I'm struggling to understand the brief or things aren't going, you know, nothing is perfect in this world. But still, it's that connection that makes me feel like this is meaningful work and meaningful enough to spend my time at. But I think the other thing too, with that whole part of it is that, you know, you.
You have to find a way in this job to connect some way. Right? And if I was just putting out the same type of work over and over again, that wouldn't, first of all, probably connect with every client. But also, I think it wouldn't connect with my team, who is constantly wanting something exciting and different.
So I have a culture here of. Of staff who don't want to repeat anything either.
We don't want to do the same even cabinetry profile that we've done before.
So I think too, part of it is this symbiotic relationship I have with my team, where it's like, keeping them creatively alive is a huge part of it. And being able to insert their specific ideas that are different than mine into a project in a way that feels seamless and natural, you know, is also part of that conversation. Whereas if we had just an aesthetic that was just mine, that wouldn't also feel super honorable to the team that I have that creates all of this work either.
So. Yeah, and also too, like, I love new things. Like, my personality is like, yes to everything.
You know, I was joking with a friend. And she's like, it's like you have 72 jobs, you know, like, you don't have. You don't have five jobs. You have, like, 70 where you're like, I'll try this, or I'll dabble at this. And. And so part of that is also what keeps me energized. Like, one of my values is I like new things. Like, I like new projects, like, new experiences. I like. Newness is something I seek and want. And so it makes sense for me and my personality that I wouldn't. I would get bored quickly with a rinse and repeat sort of aesthetic.
[00:17:13] Speaker A: Mm, Good. Before we get into this next set of questions, can you update us on the studio? How many people are on the team these days? I know you have a beautiful, beautiful physical space in Minneapolis now, but just kind of like how you have everybody broken down. Do you have design teams? How your seniors, juniors, if those exist, are broken up?
[00:17:35] Speaker B: Okay, great question, because I love my team. I'm looking at them right now across the glass doors.
So our studio is set up in, like, you know, I'm on every project still. So I go to all of the big meetings, I review all of the work. I collaborate, add. Add to the body of work that we're creating for every client.
So I attend all meetings, and I'm still very much in the creative zone of every project, but below me are lead designers. So we have Sarah, Samantha, and Emily. And each of them then lead and follow a project through its entire life cycle.
So it's me and a lead designer on the entirety of the project.
When my team. One of the things that I feel like has been super great for me in developing yond into something that works is having feedback from my team. When we have that, then at a growth point about, do we want to hire a project manager? Do we want to try that model? Do we want to hire an assistant designer? Do we want to hire, you know, another. Do we want to have teams of two? You know, how do we want to do all of this? And I think the feedback has been, it works really well for me and the designers to be on a project in terms of workload. But where we recently found ourselves was there's just a lot of stuff that falls to that bottom that is, you know, drawing elevations or, like, you know, bedding or details or, you know, things like that, where it just ends up taking a lot of time to find the right perfect thing. And so we hired Elena recently, who's more in that assistant role, so she supports the designers on all projects, all of our projects, wherever she's needed, she kind of plugs and plays. And so every Monday, we kind of go to her and say, okay, you know, she's got a little spreadsheet of her time and what she's doing and when her deliverables are so we don't overwhelm her.
And then kind of use her strategically on all projects for additional support when. Especially in the design phase.
But she makes spec books, she does errands. She, you know, does all that kind of stuff as well. And then below that. Not. Not necessarily below. I hate. I hate, like, that hierarchy. But is Tina. And Tina does all of our purchasing and install coordination. So she is not a designer. She does not want to be a designer. She is a spreadsheet person.
And. But she.
One of the best parts about Tina that I feel like is a quality every single person who's hiring for a procurement person should look for is someone who values and appreciates what someone else has created. So Tina's job is not only to purchase everything.
You know, she's just clicking buttons. But her job really is also to protect our work as well. So when something comes damaged, you know, she obviously fixes that. But also too, like, if it's an issue where, you know, something was done wrong, she's like, just as ferocious as we are about, this is not acceptable.
This is not up to our standard. We need to fix it, you know, all these sorts of things. But really her role is not only the, like, organization, but she's super passionate about, like, watching what we create and making it happen and being like a mama bear about that, you know, like, so I think that that's a. That also feels so good in our studio because, you know that Tina isn't going to let some. Something pass that shouldn't pass because she cares about us and our clients and what we created.
So that's how we're. That's how we're structured at the moment. So we're a team of six.
Sarah just moved to New York, and so we have, what I say, like a little satellite office in New York.
And so she can service our New York projects and east coast work.
But also, you know, most of our projects are nationwide, so having someone that you know isn't here physically is totally fine. Both of her projects are in the Mountain west, so she travels.
[00:21:49] Speaker A: Amazing.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:51] Speaker A: I think it's so important that you brought up. We talk about it on the show all the time, that Tina does not want to be a designer. That is something we teach at design camp. We talk about it on the show. It's so easy to fall in love with someone who's like, yes, I'll handle procurement, like, I'll do anything. And then, you know, six months, 12 months down the road, you're moving them over to a designer role, and then you are re looking for that spreadsheets person. So I think that that is so fascinating just to hear in practice, but also that they kind of work as quality control as well, so that they are very integrated in the design process and really at the end result.
Okay, so we're going to get into how you protect creativity within your team. But I also want to go back a little bit to what you were talking about at the top of the show, because you were saying that sometimes you get to a point where you've looked at so many images, you've referenced as much as you can, and really, to get to the next level, you have to go back to and find inspiration from the client.
Can we talk about what that looks like? Like, what are the questions you're asking? You're like, where are you looking? Where are you finding inspiration from the client?
[00:23:07] Speaker B: That's a good question.
I think, personally, that starts at the beginning, right? So of course we can all generate questions and questionnaires and all that kind of stuff. And I don't do that personally. I don't send a questionnaire out ahead of time, which I know is a little controversial, but that's because I want the relationship with my client for them to tell me to my face and for me to hear it, what they like and don't like, and also to understand why.
What. What is the driving force here. So a great example is Sarah and I had a presentation with a client this morning.
And, you know, they'll share images with you, like, and it's, you know, very clear what their aesthetic is and what their goal is.
But it didn't really have what they were sharing with us, had no nuance. There was nothing about it, to me that was special or unique or really, you know, that interesting to some degree.
And so Sarah and I took a lot of time before this presentation to develop a presentation where it felt like they could see. See enough of themselves, but also for them to see that we saw them enough to try this other idea.
And part of that is this idea of trust building. Right. So creating an atmosphere in your presentations. And we do a robust design concept, which is the first presentation that we do, which is like establishing the aesthetic arc of a project. So it's layouts, but it's also trying. It's also getting the client ready to see and hear things they haven't thought of before.
And I've talked about this on a lot of podcasts, and this, to me, is the crucial point at which you get permission and build trust with your client to do things that they didn't see coming, and for them to trust that you understand what, why, and what that is. So a perfect example is on our first page. This was a design concept presentation this morning on our first page, and it was our first presentation with them. We've had layout meetings with the architect and done all that kind of stuff, but this is our first true. Me and Sarah showing them our heart of this project.
And the first page had some stone ideas. You know, they were historically thinking they wanted soapstone or something really quiet. And we're like, no, going to do something cooler. So we put a couple of images of stone, and immediately our client is like, I don't like those. And we're like, okay, we knew that, you know, and it's a. It's a conversation where it's like, I know you're going to say that. And let's pause this because there's a couple pages later on, like, your bar, which I know is super important to you, your powder room. So let's, like, let's figure out a way to make these ideas feel like they could fit with who you are and what you're about and how to get them to see that you understand that this is a stretch, you know, so it's partially that conversation. I think, that happens early on where you acknowledge to the client that I understand that what I'm going to do is stretching for you and that information that they give you about how far that could possibly go. So when I say, like, you get inspiration back from your client, you're kind of reminding yourself about what is the ethos of what they want to create and where can you push them in this project to create something you're also excited about? So for me, when I say I've looked at enough cabinetry details, I need to go back to the client, part of that is, okay, I've seen what I need to see in terms of inspiration and ideas. I need to remind myself how far they're willing to go and what they said about some of this stuff, it. If that makes sense. But I think part of that is that relationship that you've built earlier on in the process where you know that they know that you're trying stuff out and you're seeing what they like and what they don't like.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: If you've been running your firm for a few years now, you've probably got a system in place. And I do use that term loosely. It's going to be a mix of apps, some spreadsheets, maybe a project management tool that was close but never quite right.
And you are still the one holding it all together.
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[00:28:13] Speaker B: But it can be done. You know, a lot of our meetings are also done via Zoom now too, so.
[00:28:18] Speaker A: Yes, sorry. Yeah, but like face to face, it's a conversation, not questionnaire. Yeah. How are you? How do you document that meeting so that when you are working or your lead designer is working on that project later and you are having to go back to what the client said?
You know, for someone who does have the practice of there's a questionnaire plus, I mean, I assume most people have conversations. Well, but when there's like not a document to go back, how are you guys documenting this conversation so that it is a point of reference later?
[00:28:52] Speaker B: Okay, well, we do use the AI recording tools now. The AI, that's amazing. So it records all your meetings, which is great.
So that's super helpful. Extracting the notes out of that is also really helpful. But honestly, I'm a pen to paper kind of lady. Okay, so this is my notes from that meeting and I literally have it just sectioned out by room. So I write the room and then I write the comments.
And in all honesty, I know people are like, but you know, clients have so much, so many thoughts and how do you know them all?
And part of it is knowing what to ask.
Right? Like knowing what information you need in order to create something that they're excited about and what information you don't really need to make something special.
So for example, you know, on our first design concept, we're also asking questions around finish but we're showing them good images of finishes, we're showing them curated ideas. And so all of that then is highly condensed. Right. We'll show them two faucets. One's a bridge, one's a single hole. And we're kind of like, which one do you like? Tell us about what you think. So we're not asking, tell us about your kitchen. We're asking super specific questions that help move our needle further and further into selections.
So recording that information is, you know, we do it pen to paper. In our meetings. Me and our lead designer also take notes. We use the AI recording, but also, too, we leave the door open for our clients. So I don't have, like, a way to give feedback either. Like a standardized way. We've thought about it, but the truth of the matter is every client is different.
And I want them to give me feedback how they want to give me feedback. So some of some people want to schedule a meeting. They want to review the presentation. They want to tell you things that they couldn't tell you in the meeting because they're not communicative that way. And that's fine with me.
Some people literally annotate our whole presentation. They'll send stars, they'll write notes.
Some people will make a Google Doc. So I always say, I want this to be easy for you. My job here is to take this information.
And all of our clients are exceptionally busy people, and they have big jobs or big families, and I want this to be fun and easy for them. And so some clients, like, oh, we do a date night. And, you know, we. Every Friday, we have date night, and we do these things. And so a Google Doc works great for them. And some people are like, I told you everything I need to tell you in the meeting. Go figure it out. You know, so my. I want to always be as flexible as we can with our clients around how their lives work and what works within their lives. So, yeah, it's just a lot of active listening, and it's a lot of knowing what questions to ask to get the information that you need when you need it, because you don't need every single piece of information right away. Right.
So just being strategic about how to move your own needle forward in a way that gets you closer to that selection or that design.
[00:32:02] Speaker A: Okay. In the past, on other shows, previously, when we've chatted, you've talked about this concept of designated design days.
Days where you do nothing but the creative work. How did you arrive at that structure and how protective are you of that when business demands compete, are you still doing designated design?
[00:32:25] Speaker B: Not as much.
I wish. I still have blocks, though. I have blocks where if I'm working on something, you know, it is blocked off, but not as much a day anymore, sadly.
[00:32:41] Speaker A: So, okay, when that time is blocked off because there is a deadline, your team's waiting on you to make a decision about something or to move the needle forward, how are you handling it? When you sit down and you know, you thought your to do list was clear enough or like, it's just not happening. It's just not happening. How do you handle that? Do you push through, step away, or is there something specific that you put into practice to help reset?
[00:33:11] Speaker B: That's a good question. Because going back to our earlier discussion, I truly believe that every client deserves our best work. And if I'm in a position where I'm not able to do that, I owe it to my client who has trusted and invested in me and my team to get in a position to.
To think about them and to make this the best I can make it.
So part of it, yeah, is a reprioritization of things, especially if there's a deadline. Like, client deliverables comes first in a lot of ways. You know, other things can wait.
But it's also too this, you know, it also comes in the structure of how you cadence your meetings so that you aren't under the gun all the time. Right. So giving yourself enough time and leeway to get what you need done. So scheduling meetings, I cannot tell you. Giving yourself looking at your Runway and realizing, okay, I've got all these other things happening.
I know that I need four weeks until I can deliver this next thing really helps. Or, you know, we've been setting meetings ahead of time with clients like, okay, this meeting work can tackle this. Then we're going to do this. And this first six meetings are scheduled, but I think also stepping away from your email and your phone and just putting them down is essential because at the. There will always be stuff to do.
And you have to be willing to say to. To say your client deserves your full attention.
[00:34:48] Speaker A: I truly believe that creativity is a muscle, and it needs constant training and conditioning. It is. Creativity is a practice. It is, I think, common.
Common in society for people to say, oh, they're a creative person, like, they're creative all the time.
[00:35:06] Speaker B: Or.
[00:35:07] Speaker A: Or like it's just when creativity strikes. And it. As someone whose livelihood and whole team's livelihood depends on creativity, I have learned that it's. It is something that takes practice and it's a rigorous practice.
What steps, whether that's exercises, specific books, inspiration. A lot of people say travel. Are you putting in place to maintain creative practice so you can recall it as necessary for a project? And I do have to say, if you are just listening to this episode, make sure to look it up on YouTube just so you can see the incredible book collection Julia has behind her right now. It's like, such a cool girl thing. Everybody's gonna be like the Tokyo toilet. I'm like, immediately add to park.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: Totally. It's worth it. It's worth it. Okay. Well, I think for me, people are huge source of what gets me excited about something. So a lot of our work is in partnership with people who do something specific. Well, so that's a metal worker, that's a ceramicist, that's a tile maker, a woodworker. You know, all of those things. So I feel like when we are in a position to push ourselves, we are also thinking about who our thought partners might be on that creative level, who can achieve this, who can level it up, who can contribute to this in a way that we're not even thinking about. So, yeah, inspiration, I think, is found literally everywhere. But when it comes down to the specificity of your project, for us, a lot of the time it's thinking about who. Who we're going to loop in that's going to make this awesome with us.
So people are a huge part of our work, and respecting other people's creativity is a huge part of our work. So, you know, that's. That's a source constantly. I would also say, too, like, through travel and all of those things. I think an appreciation for the other or the unknown or the new, you know, I'm a new person, like, is also a huge part of our studio's creativity is, you know, what. What experiences my team brings to the table that I don't have.
So that kind of stuff, I think really helps. But I would say we're. We're constantly in search of new people with new skills or new specialties that can ignite a certain idea or, you know, execute something that we're super excited about.
[00:37:57] Speaker A: Okay, I have a very specific technical question, also a little bit of an ethical question.
I have heard from so many designers on the show or clients that, you know, people are like, creative work is creative work, and sometimes creative work takes longer than other times.
And as you were saying, like, you'll have it blocked out. This is the time I'm supposed to be working on this. And sometimes you have to Reprioritize. Like if it's just not happening, then that's not how you're going to spend it. And please correct me if I'm wrong, but yond bills hourly. Yes. And so what do you, how do you advise people listening that when it's like you are working on creative work, you are billing those hours and you are up against a deadline and reprioritizing might not be an option, but you are trying to find the perfect piece, you're trying to create the perfect piece. And people will sit and adjust their hours because they feel like the client should not be paying for the fact that creatively it took them longer in that moment to do it. How do you handle that with the mindset that our clients are owed our best creativity and maybe sometimes that takes longer than others?
[00:39:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
So I, I have a big proponent of, you know, telling clients obviously upfront how, how long a typical project takes you. Right. And so now that we've done a lot of projects the same way, I know how long it takes us to do a project which includes developing a lot of one off pieces. Right. So that time is kind of already built into my calculus of, you know, estimating a project. So I think that that's important. If you are a person or studio that is similar to us in the sense that you, you are like attracted to new things like we are, you have to, you have to build that time into your estimate. That being said, I, you know, I'm always in favor of looking at your billing objectively.
[00:40:01] Speaker A: Right.
[00:40:01] Speaker B: If it is unfair to bill a client for something that you should have known but didn't know, you know, I don't know, I can't think of an example. But if I feel like, oh, the client shouldn't pay for this thing that I had to figure out, I won't bill them for that because I don't feel like they should pay for my time to have learned that particular skill. Cause I should have known that or something like, um. But at the end of the day, yeah, I mean, time billing is a reflection of the time you spend on the project.
And you have to be fair to your client and truthful about how long things take.
And if they question it, you have to be willing to tell them why it took longer. But in the same point, like I said, I always want to be fair too. You know, like if I'm creating something that I know is like kind of a little bit of a rabbit trail for me, where I'm like, oh, I kind of want to see what this is like, or I want to, you know, whatever, have this extra meeting with this person, then I might not bill for it because part of that is also me gathering information for other projects or things like that. So I do try to look at things objectively as well. And, like, if I got the bill, would I feel like this was fair?
Or should the designer have known X, Y and Z because they're the expert and that's why I hired them, you know, so it's a little bit of both. But I think it really does start by adding the appropriate amount of hours at the beginning of the project to allow yourself the freedom to take the time it requires to make something really wonderful.
[00:41:41] Speaker A: Thank you so much.
[00:41:43] Speaker B: It's hard to do, though, and it takes time. So. So, you know, I just. I feel such empathy for people who are figuring out billing and all of that. But at the end of the day, if this is the work you want to do and this is your structure, you have to get paid for your time somehow.
[00:42:02] Speaker A: Okay, so let's talk about a project of your Yan's usual scope. It lasts for years.
How do you maintain creative investment in a project over that arc? Meaning how do you protect that creative mindset when you are in phases that are more logistical? When you're deepening procurement, you're managing the trades, and that original creative energy can feel far away. How do you keep that infused throughout the project?
[00:42:34] Speaker B: Well, I think, truthfully, some parts of projects just are logistical, right? You're picking the grout, you know, you're. Whatever, you're talking to the glass guy, whatever it is, right?
So there are some parts of it that, you know, definitely just need to happen. But I think, again, going back to the excitement of what you're creating and why, to me, details like grout joints and grout colors matter significantly. I think to me, help, help, create, help with the creative process. Because you know that it's. It's a step at a time. It's a tiny.
It's a tiny thing on a tiny thing on a tiny thing that creates something really spectacular, right? It's a series of decisions, and it's the execution of those of that vision that ends up being something spectacular.
[00:43:26] Speaker A: Right?
[00:43:27] Speaker B: So taking your hands off the wheel or feeling like, oh, the implementation or the project management is not a creative process. I would completely disagree because, yeah, sure, you want someone else selecting your graphic color. Good luck. You don't want someone approving your stain samples. No, you don't. You need a cfa, you know, like all of these Things. And that's where I said earlier with Tina, like having her understand and protect our work, knowing that, yeah, we require a CFA and you can't just change the dialogue on us, you know, like, all of that is what is required to execute to me, the vision I sold to my client.
[00:44:04] Speaker A: Right.
[00:44:04] Speaker B: Like, you have to have some fidelity and some sense of responsibility about the end outcome, because you are the ultimate salesperson of that idea to your client. And so if. If it's not executed to the degree to which you said it could be or should be, that's on you, you know? So I think that even though it's not like thinking of a brand new thing, I think when you are in a world where the details matter, you have to put the same amount of energy and care that you do when you're selecting the fabric for the sofa or the wallpaper.
Something that's more fun or interesting, you know. But, yeah, I think it's just a matter of being committed to the entirety of the project. Yeah.
[00:44:55] Speaker A: And it's definitely a mindset to just remember that those details are going to get you over the finish line.
[00:45:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And those are the differentiating details. So I. I feel like it. It never. I never believed this idea that people would come to us because we do different things well, and that is exactly what's happening. So we have just today received an inquiry for what would be a dream project for us from a landscape architect that I worked with on a different project who went into our house and said, I can see that this is not normal, but this is. That there's so many things in here that are unusually good and different. And he's like, this is great. This is refreshing. I haven't talked to him for like a year and a half, but he's like, I have a client who wants that level of individuality and uniqueness, and you're the only person I can think of who can do this. So I think that if that is what you want, similar to what we talked about with manifestation. And, you know, I believe manifestation is more a visualization and an everyday action towards that bigger goal, but it's also about sticking to your guns when it feels like you could sell out and do something else. You know, like, it is about those daily decisions to stick to what's important to you and to believe that that is interesting to a certain population of people and those people will find their way to you. Because I'm not. I tell people all the time, even prospective clients, I'm not the people's Designer, you know, like, I'm your designer. And so that's what is important to me. If you're looking for, you know, a project where it's like, I don't really care that much about X, Y, and Z, I'm probably not going to be the best fit for you because I care about everything.
I'm going to want you to be invested so that you can pay me to care about everything.
[00:46:55] Speaker A: Okay. I want to talk more about this manifestation mindset beyond just protecting the creativity of a project.
And running a design business means a significant portion of your time is spent on things that have nothing to do with designing.
How have you personally managed that tension between business demands and staying creatively alive? Talk to us about how you're seeing further into the future than you've ever been able to.
[00:47:26] Speaker B: I have. It's true.
Part of it is a belief and a confidence in yourself that what you are doing is good, is what you should be doing, is what's aligned with who you are as a person.
[00:47:39] Speaker A: And.
[00:47:40] Speaker B: And I get that my. Like, I will probably never be able to scale to the degree that some of these designers have been because my design work is not rinse and repeat.
And, you know, it's a specific kind of thing, and I'm okay with that.
But I will say part of.
Part of being able to attract what you want is being able to accept that there's a lot of stuff that's not for you, and that's scary to do, especially in the beginning. And I took on everything, and I. I would encourage people who are new to still take on a lot of projects, because you've gotta learn somehow, and you have to learn what your thing is.
But I have told so many potential clients that I can't. I. I'm. I can't be their best designer. They would be better served by someone else who, who could work within their budget, who does a scope that's smaller than us, who has an aesthetic that might be more aligned with what they want.
And while it's scary to turn down a project, I would rather know that that person got served by someone who could do it better than me.
[00:48:52] Speaker A: Right.
[00:48:54] Speaker B: So a great example of this is I had a contractor call me who. Who was in a really sticky situation with another designer. The designer got fired, and the client needed all their furniture still. And he's like, I know you can do it. Like, you know, I know you're good. I know you can do it quickly and on the timeline. And, you know, and he's like, but here's the thing. Here's the budget. And I'm like, I can't do it. You know, like, it was. It was a lot of money, but it wasn't enough money for me to do what I felt like I would be proud of and what I would think, think the client would want.
And so I told the contractor that, hey, look, I'm open to a conversation about what it would take to get there. And I would. This project would be amazing. It's a ton of money. It's a really prestigious architect.
But I can't do it within these parameters. Like, I just can't, because I can't do my best work, and I can't give the client something that I think they deserve with this budget. And he said, okay, there's another designer that will. I said, okay, that's fine. You know, but it was hard to say no to a big budget and the potential of maybe one day turning this into something. But I knew that's a dangerous game to play. I'm either going to sacrifice my soul by selecting veneered pieces from China, or I'm going to disappoint the client with not being able to accomplish what they want, because I thought I agreed to a budget that wasn't appropriate.
So part of it is this push pull of knowing when saying yes to projects starts to hurt you and what you can do in the future, you know, and at some point, I think you have to be willing to not take on those projects that keep you stuck, because that also is what keeps your mind stuck, because that's what you're working on, and that's what you're doing, and that's what you think you. You know, and that's what keeps coming.
But once you stop saying yes to those projects and you switch your mindset to be like, no, we do our best work on this level of project, and this is why.
And being able to be firm about that when you have to be, I think opens up so much more of your mind to realize your potential and where you're going and what you're doing all of this for. Because it's really easy to just keep a hamster wheel. But I think you have to, at some point, start to decipher what's good for you and what's not.
Okay.
[00:51:21] Speaker A: The part that I struggle with, and I, like me personally, like, as a business owner that I struggle with, is I hear over and over again from my favorite designers, you know, my favorite people in the world that, like, you have to turn down for projects that are not the perfect fit. But it's like I have to keep my doors open. Yes. And so how do you get, how have you been able to get into the mindset of trusting the universe will bring another opportunity?
By saying no to this one. Because the stress of keeping the doors open and putting food on your team's table is at times unbearable.
And, and when there is an opportunity on the door and you're up at night figuring out where can I move money around to get my team paid to say, to really have the confidence to say I'm not going to take this job when they're knocking on the door. That's the mindset that I personally, and I know there's other people like me that cannot get past.
[00:52:24] Speaker B: Yes. And I, I, I, I have been there and I understand that.
I just think there's a difference between knowing you're taking on a project to do that and feeling like those are the only projects you're going to get. Right.
So for me it's about the differentiation between, okay, I'm taking on a smaller scale project or a project that's construction only. Even though I love to do furniture, I think you just have to be self aware enough to know that that's not where you're going. Right. And you have to, I think in full fairness to your client, you still have to give them your best. Right. Like they don't deserve anything less because you are in a pinch. Like, that's not fair.
So I think for me it's this differentiation between over here, I have a grand vision for where we're going and what we want to do. And I put that out in social media.
I put that out to contractors and friends and architects and networking opportunities. And you know, I'm doing all of this list of things over here that are my goal and what I want to be doing. And sometimes you're right over here, you're also like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make this project awesome because I took it and I'm gonna milk it for what I can, you know, so it's a, it's a, it's a both and always with business. I think both taking on stuff that makes a business run and fills your time, but also having a vision for what your business is that maybe isn't this right? So it's, I think it's a both and situation.
And I think that as the principal, you need to be able to have enough self awareness to know what you're doing and why you're doing it and to, you know, not stay stuck mentally in smaller projects or, you know, believing that's all you're ever going to get, or, you know, a defeatist sort of mentality. Right. And that's where I think the exercise over here that I do of, you know, mindfulness and visualizations and believing that I can get these other projects is so important because that's what keeps you moving forward, I think.
But as a. I was talking to a builder, and the phrase he used was, well, sometimes you got to get on your bike. Sometimes you got to get on your bike and you need to ride around the neighborhood and you need to drum up some stuff, you know, and that's. Everybody's riding their bike sometimes, right? We're all. We're all drumming up things. But I also think, too, like, you can't let go of these things that will bring you forward. Like, you can't let go of networking. You can't let go of hosting that party. You can't let go of sending the card.
[00:55:13] Speaker A: Right?
[00:55:14] Speaker B: Because those are the things. Like this landscape architect. I haven't worked with him in a year and a half, and we worked very peripherally on a project together.
But, like, you can't let go. He emailed me, you know, six months ago about a light, an exterior light fixture. He was like, I'm stuck on this. Can you help me find one? It's like, sure, I can totally do that for free. Like, because I have goodwill towards you. And look what it brought us potentially, you know, so you can't let go of that idea that other things are out there for you. And by putting out what you're proud of and what you want and speaking that out loud, I think helps move that needle more than people think. And I'm a skeptic. I was a skeptic as well. Like, I thought, you know, if I'm not literally riding my bike every day, everything's going to fall apart. But it's that kind of mentality that keeps you stuck.
[00:56:05] Speaker A: How do you translate protecting creative space, protecting the brand's manifestation amongst your team? I have a clear understanding of how Julia's managing it. And you mentioned that your team likes New New New too.
[00:56:25] Speaker B: They.
[00:56:25] Speaker A: They are excited by new opportunities and not repeating the same cabinet profiles. How do you. How have you built that culture?
[00:56:34] Speaker B: That's a good question. I think for me, it's about valuing everything they bring to the table, truly and honestly. Right.
That when we start a project, truthfully, I have some ideas, but they have some Ideas as well. And it's the combination of our ideas that make a project.
So I'm not the type of principal that is like, execute these things, find these images, make it like this. Because, again, I'm just one voice in the room. And they will. I'm looking at them all. They will tell you that they veto me all the time.
They'll be like, no, we're not doing it that way. So part of it is this professional respect that they hear everything I hear with the client.
They know and see things I don't see, and that this is a collaboration between both of us and that I take what they create extremely seriously and will defend their work to the client and the architect or whatever. Right. So part of it is this trust and safety in our office, where you can have a healthy disagreement about something, and it. It's just fun or it's, like, inconsequential. Right. Like, I'm. I'm technically at the top, but I'm very much more at the bottom, if that makes sense.
I feel like my goal is to create a space where people can freely explore themselves and explore things that they feel are interesting and, you know, unique and specific.
And that whole environment, I think, is a feeling. Right. It's a safety. It's a no, no idea is a bad idea kind of thing.
And it's practicing that, like, receiving feedback myself that my idea maybe isn't great or unworkable or another idea is better, but it's also too, like, you know, I. I think in your earlier question, you had asked, like, how does everybody kind of generate stuff? And part of it is, like, I mean, we have shared Pinterest boards and stuff, but we also have a Slack channel that's just called cute.
And so, like, people are finding stuff there all the time. So there's always this information sharing that's happening in our studio where it's like, Emily's looking for a fabric, and Samantha is like, oh, I looked at these four. What do you think? You know, so it's this constant transfer of. Of ideas and information between everybody in a way that ultimately contributes the best to every project.
And it's also, I think, this feeling that, like, you have to be willing to see someone else's idea as.
As your own if you're the principal, right. That if you're going to present this to your client, that you have to believe in this yourself, so you have to get there somehow. Right?
But, yeah, part of that, I think, is a lot of culture building. It's a lot of how our studio works. And I think what makes us special is the fact that we are a team of people that are all very different, but all respect and love and care for each other in a way that creates honesty and transparency when.
When we need to discuss knob size or the height of a chandelier off a table or a tile pattern. You know, like, we have one client right now. She's super crazy. She's amazing. She wants all the things. And, like, Emily is the perfect fit for her, because Emily will show her all of the cool, crazy, wacky things, you know? And so it's like this pairing, too, that happens when you're the principal between how a client thinks and what your. Who your designers are, so that that goodness of fit is also there from
[01:00:24] Speaker A: the beginning, logistically speaking, when you are a principal who's still very involved in the design with your lead designers on projects, how much Runway do you give your. Do you ask for from your team for you to review things or for you to get to work on it as well? Like, let's say, okay, we're recording on it. What is today? Thursday. Let's say you guys have a presentation next Wednesday.
How far in advance are. Are you asking your team to have things for you to look at so that you have creative space to contribute to that presentation?
[01:01:05] Speaker B: Yeah, so what we do is we create the presentation right away. So we section it out. We create the pages of the presentation, what needs to get on each page, and, like, what needs to happen, right? So, like, what we actually have to deliver, and that is usually created by the designer.
And then Elena, on our team also will kind of get in on, like, okay, what pages could need to get filled out, what's easy for her to do, that kind of stuff. But honestly, it's my response. I take it as my responsibility to tell my lead designers what. What I need and where I want to contribute and what I think is important and what I have time for.
And so, honestly, it's more about, for us, making sure that there's sufficient time for the designer to create than it is almost for me, if that makes sense, because I don't want them to be rushed either. But I would say we typically review a presentation a week to two weeks, if we're lucky, beforehand, and tweak and change things. But it's my responsibility to contribute to that presentation in a way that helps the designer move forward and doesn't make this process more difficult for them. And that's by being clear about, okay, we're gonna. I'M gonna contribute to the kitchen page. I'm gonna, I've got all these ideas or, you know, let's try this. That's my responsibility, not theirs to get out of me. So that's when I, when I said too, like, I see myself not as on the top, but on the bottom. My job is to make their jobs easier and to make their jobs manageable. And if I'm a chaos person and am not organized in my own way or haven't given them the clearance, clear information of what I want to do or what I need them to do by when, that's my fault and that needs to be better. But I'd say one to two weeks for review and often too what we'll do. So we use Slack. We'll like put the presentation in Slack right away and be like, okay guys, this is what we're working on. Because every, everybody here is excited by those presentations. And so it's also not uncommon for another designer to, on a pro, not on the project, to put in images or ideas, just slap them in a page that they're like, this could be cool. You know, consider these five. Consider this idea, you know, or whatever.
So some of it also comes, some of our creativity also comes about in collaboration with each other on those sorts of things.
[01:03:31] Speaker A: Okay, so if you are listening and want to know more about Julia's design presentation, her processes in general, Jan just launched the Studio Table, which is a four part workshop series built around the actual operations of Yand Interiors. Yes. I have to say I have worked with literally thousands of designers over the last 10 years and have had very intimate looks at very proprietary information and how they run their studio. And Yawn Interiors has the best processes out there. You have always been so magically methodical and incredibly personal at the same time. But things, as you mentioned earlier, do not happen by accident now at yonder. And there is very much a process. So the fact that you are offering these workshops is such a gift to the industry.
Does I know that we go over very technical things at the Studio table from the very beginning of the process through four different segments. Does mindset come up in that program or has this conversation made you want to add it in?
[01:04:55] Speaker B: Oh, no, it's, it's the, to me, it's the, the guiding force between, you know, for everything we do. Right. So yeah, so especially at the beginning. So workshop one is like client acquisition and concept, which to me, again, like I've said, I mean every part of your process is incredibly important. But if you're looking to level up your work or if you're looking to try something new, I think that that all starts well before a client inquires and well before you've even tried what you're trying to try. That starts in social media, that starts in your presence in other ways. So there's a lot of ways that that kind of stuff happens. But, yes, mindset for me is about every part of our process. Right. It's about not only how do we do our best work, but also how do I connect, continue to do work that gets me to bigger clients or bigger budgets or, you know, places of prestige that we want to work, you know, so part of it is that positioning as well, and that is all mindset, because that's all believing in something that's not there yet. Right? So mindset, to me, happens at every point of the project, and I think, like, one of the things. So it's really easy, I think, in the beginning to be like, oh, sure, I can visualize having, you know, a project in Palm Springs.
I think it's harder for mindset to become a part of your practice when you're in selections and you're like, I'm just trying to find a side table. But at the end of the day, I think for me, it's that vision of you are like, step by step creating and adding to your vision and your what you want to do.
And that happens in, I think, the boringest of times.
That's when you really need to lock in, because that's the time when it can slip. That's when the time when the vision goes away and you're just like, I don't care. I'm annoyed with the revisions, whatever. But it's also about having enough structure in your work to know your own boundaries, because creativity could be boundaryless, and that can be super chaotic. And so for us, having structure around our presentations and what we present in and when we present, it also helps to protect our work, but also protect how much creativity you need to give to that particular project at that time. Right. So, you know, the structure and process is what makes the freedom to create something, if that makes sense, Right?
[01:07:37] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
So the studio table covers concepting, as you just said, client acquisition, concepting, selections, procurement, and installation. It's broken up into those four main phases. Obviously, every phase is broken down much further. It's the full project arc. Is there a phase of the process where you see designers most consistently losing touch with their creative instincts?
And what does the program offer around that? I know you just mentioned, like, it's the revisions phase that you're annoyed by something. Just as an example. But have you built into the studio table helping people get out of that?
[01:08:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, again, it's like, to your earlier question, I think that that creativity can fall off sometimes at the final details at, like, you know, if you haven't planned for accessories or bedding or art or, you know, things like that. Like, you know, those are the. Those are the areas that I think sometimes, like, erode your work because they're. They come kind. They can kind of come at a weird time if you haven't planned for them.
So for me, styling and almost like that process, project, wrap up is a time where I think people are like, oh, my God, thank God everything's here. You know, I'm done. Mic drop kind of thing. And I think that styling and photography is where, you know, people can take their hands off the reins a little too much. So recently. Well, not recently in the last year and a half, I started doing all of our styling for all of our shoots myself.
I. I've hired stylists before and realized, oh, in order for me to get the look I want, I've got to do this, and I've got to learn how to do this.
I might not do it forever, but I think it's been such a good practice of transitioning our projects into something that aesthetically is connected but is also, you know, like kind of the.
The meat and bones of the project at the end, so to speak. But that comes to me in styling.
[01:09:51] Speaker A: Right.
[01:09:52] Speaker B: In those final photos.
So, yeah, I think styling in kind of the end of the project is probably where I see most designers be like, oh, it's almost done. I moved on, you know, and I think that's where you need to dig in.
[01:10:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And obviously coming from, like, a branding, web design, PR standpoint, I'm like, that is the most important part. I'm like, that's what you're going to have to propel you to get the next project of that caliber. Or is the caliber above it?
[01:10:17] Speaker B: Yes, that's where you put your stamp on stuff. But I think a lot of designers, and I've hired stylists. I love stylists. I just realized, like, oh, I want a. I want this vision to go further. And part of that is in the sourcing of the objects and the sourcing of the feel. And florals. We do all our florals ourselves, too.
And so part of it is this exercise for me in creating that final vision myself. As opposed to handing it off to someone who's just going to make a photo that probably looks good. Good, but isn't exactly what I was thinking.
So that's been a good exercise for me personally and a skill I did not have and feel like I've learned.
[01:10:59] Speaker A: Okay, talk to me about what deliverables or specific examples. If it's not necessarily deliverables. Studio table attendees can expect to walk away with whether they're doing. Because you have the option to just attend or. Or view the recording later one phase. Or they could purchase a bundle to get. To get access to all of them. What. What can someone expect they're actually going to like, walk away with?
[01:11:25] Speaker B: Yeah, so obviously they'll get the recording and they'll get the PDF presentation.
And I feel like the PDF presentation is so much information already, but also too, they'll get like a reference guide for any programs we referenced or, um, yeah, things I've talked about that there's a link to or more information about. And then what we actually included in the last. Well, in our first session and we will continue to include are the. The chat and the notes that are happening during the session.
Because we found that some people were like, oh, this qu. You know, we. I have someone that's facilitating as well, and so she's answering questions in the chat as well. So people are like, oh, I want to have reference to. To the questions that were answered that way as well.
We are thinking about trying to figure out a way to connect people that is not necessarily part of the studio table or something I'm facilitating, but a way for people to be in relationship with each other as well. So that could. I don't know what that could look like quite yet, but that has been a request. Like people who are trying to create a business that is like, founded in creativity and individuality, how to connect them. So that could be something that's coming as well.
[01:12:47] Speaker A: Amazing. Okay, so that's, you know, your most recent of launches and the next one, well, part two, the second workshop is coming out late June. This episode is dropping mid July. So if you want to experience it live, you can sign up for the next. For the third and fourth part or get the previous recordings as well. But before we wrap, I want to take a moment to talk about something we actually had the privilege of being a part of with the new Brunel website. And for anyone who doesn't know, Brunel is Julia's custom furniture shop, which she has a business partner on, and our team at Quinn Just completed the full update to the website. It's. Brunel is such an interesting brand because it sits at the intersection of, you know, a working design studio, sourcing life and also this retail experience.
What was the original vision for Brunel when you first co founded it and how do you feel like it's evolved? Because I do think that it has graduated, it's grown up a little bit, it's kind of scaled in a way.
So talk to us about, talk to us about how it started and kind of where it's at now.
[01:14:02] Speaker B: Okay. So we launched actually November of last year. So we were just going to be pleased if we got one furniture order in the calendar year. That was our goal. Just one person found us and ordered one piece and we would be happy with that. It has now turned into, um, you know. So Samantha on our team, who's been with me pretty much from the beginning, is my co founder. So she came to me and was like, okay, either I'm gonna start my own studio or we're gonna do this business thing together. I'm like, oh, we're gonna do this business.
But part of it was this idea that we create so many of these things already.
And I'm on the expert and I cannot tell you how many times I'm like looking for a company that can help me and this person who's going to execute this design on their own find a piece that can be dimensionally different, or we can change a paint color or do anything that's a little more interesting than a retail level piece typically is.
So part of it was like I saw the immense need myself, constantly sourcing for people on the expert, but also that we're already doing this for our clients and so let's make this work.
But yeah, Brunel started off as a seed of an idea to bring to life things that we were already doing, but also things that we were excited about that had nothing to do with yond necessarily.
And also I mentioned earlier, people are a huge source of inspiration for us here at Yond right. Like being able to call one of our friends and be like, hey, we got this epic project and we need your help. Figuring out X, Y and Z is one of the hidden joys of this work. And so being able to create a product line, an e commerce shop basically, that gathered all of the people that not only believed in Brunel, but also have given their time and talent to it is part of what we love. We've so far only done Minneapolis based artists and I'M sure that will change, but we do these small collaborations on mostly ceramics at this point for these kind of collections, so to speak. So it's just a really great opportunity for us not only to give back to, I feel like the people who have given to yond and us so much, but also to let other people know about how great Minneapolis is and like, what we're doing here and who, who's here doing what.
Um, so part of it is just like a passion project. Even if I never made money from it, it's that passion of like, oh, this is, what's, this is a value of my life. This is what's important to me. Um, it's important to Samantha and that's, you know, we're, we're just happy if a sale happens and sales have been happening, so it's been good. Um, but as a result, our website, you know, in the first six months was like, oh man, we need. We, Samantha and I were doing a lot of the coding and all that kind of stuff ourselves and that was not, not going super great and not very efficient. And so, yeah, we called in Quinn to help us with some of that and just figure out some of the problems we could not figure out ourselves on Shopify, which is so complicated.
So, yeah, so we rebirthed Brunell and, you know, slightly more efficient web site with just a lot more usability and great features and stuff like that. So it was a, it was a great exercise for Samantha and I.
[01:17:37] Speaker A: Well, we loved getting to work on it. Your, your bones were so strong.
It was a really great and honestly, very easy project for us. So thank you for letting us work on it. You mentioned that you're on the Expert and you wanted to be able to source things for people.
Are Brunel pieces available in the Expert to shop through them or does everything. If someone wants to source Brunel, they're doing it through you. And how has that, how has that affected the trajectory of Brunel?
[01:18:08] Speaker B: Yeah, so we do have select items on the Expert. We didn't want to offer our full collection on the Expert, but you can shop select pieces on the Expert.
And I would say, I mean, I'm sheepish to recommend my Expert clients to Brunel just because it feels kind of funny to be like, oh, you know, buy this other thing from me. But it's more, yeah, so I will do it if it's the right piece and the right thing. But it's more about just creating an opportunity for what I call design minded people who are Never going to hire a designer because they don't, they want to do it themselves or they don't have the money to do it and all at once, but an opportunity for a design minded person to get a piece that they, that is perfect for them, you know, and that doesn't exist a ton on the retail market.
So yeah, so I would say Brunel and the expert and even our own sourcing just has really like seamlessly gone together. But we're very clear to separate church and state that like, you know, you don't source only Brunel items and Brunel really is its own entity. And if the piece is perfect or if a client really wants a Brunel piece, which a lot of our clients actually are very sweet and they request Brunel pieces will do it. But again, similar to our ethos at yand, we give our best work and if a Brunel piece is not the best thing, you don't get one. You know, we're going to make you something that's specific for you.
But yeah, it's been great to have those two things go back and forth between each other. But I would still say they're still like very separate and you know, independent and very independently operated.
[01:19:48] Speaker A: So many designers who have thought about, you know, because they're also doing custom pieces, they've thought about, okay, do we launch this as a line? I hear from people saying, you know, we source from XYZ line that we created and like we're really keeping ourselves in business. Have you felt like you guys have been able to penetrate the market and the community beyond just your own projects? It sounds like you are saying yes, but I'm just curious as to how you feel like that happened because a lot of people are like, this is a great option even if we're only sourcing it ourselves.
[01:20:24] Speaker B: Totally. Yeah. So I would say Yond buys 0.01% of the items Brunel makes or puts out there. All of a lot of our, a lot of our furniture orders are other designers art. It's mostly to the trade.
And then we always want to have these, what we call add to cart items like these ceramics, these vintage quilts. We have a whole, if you look just off camera, you might see some tons of vintage chairs lined up that need to get to the upholsterer.
But yeah, we want to also keep it fresh for people who are design minded but can't find a reupholstered vintage piece in a designer fabric or a pillow that's special.
You Know, and is, you know, they're able to buy. So we always want to have these items like mirrors and things like that, or lamps that anybody can just buy. But our bread and butter really is the trade. And I think that that has come because yond, you know, while we, you know, tell people and advertise for it, really, I don't think I've told beyond audience, at least on Instagram in a while, that Brunel exists. I mean, I have it on our little header, but really it's word of mouth and honestly, Pinterest ads have been huge for us.
So, yeah, it's pretty crazy. But, yeah, mostly to the trade. And then just, you know, repeat clients are like, oh, okay, I bought this, it went well. I'm going to try this other thing for this other project.
Yeah. And the best part about Brunel to me as a designer is you can change dimensions. We have laminate finishes, we have paint finishes, we have wood finishes.
You know, if you want something super specific in a super specific fabric, we can do that. We can make that for you. We can get it done. So there's endless amounts of options with Brunel where even if you source a piece over and over again, it could look totally different because you've changed the color or the finish on it. And, you know, that to us also is something that, you know, we felt like we didn't have in the market ourselves.
[01:22:35] Speaker A: Okay, one sort of off topic question, but I think you know this about me, but if I did not live in Austin, I would live in Minneapolis. Minneapolis is my design mecca. Like the best designers in the country, I feel like, are in Minneapolis. And obviously that's like a very personal objective. Totally opinion. But it's the right.
[01:22:57] Speaker B: But it's the right opinion.
[01:22:59] Speaker A: It's the right opinion. What do you feel is contributing to that design culture and that level of work that I feel just pushes the boundaries beyond coastal, you know, the. Not coastal design, but design coming out of the coast and even Chicago or, you know, Dallas, Houston. I just feel like Minneapolis St. Paul Design is the coolest stuff out there. Why do you think that is? Besides the fact that you're there?
[01:23:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I think part of it is like, Minnesotans, I think, are very typically reserved, really thoughtful people.
And I think in order to like, really connect with a Minnesotan, similar to what I've been talking about is you have to, you have to be able to tell them why it's important and why they should spend their money on it. So I wonder if part of it is just, you know, we're. We've gone through this rigorous exercise with our Minnesota clients of, you know, letting, like, educating and providing information. And, you know, part of it, too, is, like, Minnesotans are typically more reserved in their aesthetic, and so it requires a lot of extra education and effort to get a Minnesotan to, like, try to do something super special and different.
So I think that's part of it is like, oh, okay. You have to work hard to, like, educate and show people why it's cool. But I think the other part is this is a small community of people, but everybody. I mean. And I can't say stress this enough is in it together, you know, like, some of my best friends. Ann McDonald, Melissa Oho from An Oho Interiors. Like, you know, I just got a voice text from Ann yesterday that was like, hey, I have all these questions. What's up?
And to me, it's that idea that, like, we're not really in competition with each other either. Like, we're in support of each other, and this community is small enough that you do know everybody, and reputation really matters. And so I think for me, it's also, like, when you're. When you don't feel threatened by people who are doing awesome things, it frees you up to be yourself. It frees you up to do what you're best at.
And I think that that is what creates good work, is the freedom to be yourself and to show your individuality.
Um, and I personally think that that comes more from the culture of kindness and sharing information and being friendly and showing up for people when you need to show up for friends, you know, So I think that that's a lot of it, at least for me, is the support and, like, you know, knowing that if a client doesn't choose me and they choose Ann, that that was the right choice for that client and for Anne, you know, like, that's. That's. That's a match made then, you know, so, yeah, I think that's part of it.
[01:26:13] Speaker A: I think of all mindsets that we've talked about today, I kind of feel like that's the most important one. Yeah, it's just that there's enough work for everybody, and people will end up where they're supposed to be with the right clients. When you get. When you allow yourself to be discerning enough.
Yes, welcome. That.
Okay, Julia, what are you currently manifesting for yond that you're allowed to talk to us about?
[01:26:38] Speaker B: Okay, well, I want an international client.
Okay. I want an international client. I don't have one yet. So I'm going to just put it out there that we want to go somewhere cool. So somewhere so we're mobile.
But other things that are happening in the studio that are super exciting.
I have a couple of product collaborations on the yawn side that I can't talk about quite yet, which is really annoying, but they'll be available, you know, to. To purchase at the retail level, that kind of stuff. So that's really exciting.
Brunel is working on some super fun collaborations.
We. Christopher Merchant is a ceramicist who I think a lot of people know. He just moved to Minneapolis and so we're doing a coffee table, a dining table, and then maybe some small vessels and things like that with him that are proprietary to Brunel.
So that's super exciting.
And we also just have projects right now where I feel like our team is stoked about what's coming up. So we're shooting a huge project in Aspen in two weeks that we've been working on. So I cannot wait to show you that project.
Yeah, I mean, I think we're just manifesting people who want cool stuff.
That's what I want. I want someone who's like, show me what's. Show me something cool.
That's what we want to do.
[01:28:07] Speaker A: Well, I will be manifesting that inquiry that came in this morning for you from the landscape architect.
Please text me and tell me when that comes through, because I will. I will. Julia, this was so amazing. Thank you for chatting. Sorry, guys. This was a long show, but there was no way in heck I was cutting her off. So two times speed. Sorry, guys.
Thank you for listening. We will have everything linked in the show. Notes from studio table to Brunel and also Julia's past episode with us. Is this just our second or have we done three?
[01:28:37] Speaker B: I think two.
[01:28:39] Speaker A: Okay, I'll make sure that that is linked.
Follow Julia at YAND and Julia, I will talk to you very soon. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for more in depth analysis analysis to this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more. Don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] theinterior collective. Thank you so so much for tuning in to this episode. Producing this show has. Has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. A big, huge thank you to our production team at Idyco Studio and Quinn made. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible.
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