[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign hi.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Welcome back to the Interior Collective. Today's guest is not only a seasoned design entrepreneur, but also a dear friend and a familiar voice here on the Interior Collective. I'm so excited to welcome back Bria Hamill, the visionary behind Bria Hamill Interiors. And Brooke and Lou. If you've been with us since the early seasons, you might remember Bria's first appearance in season two, Episode two, where she shares her insights on pivoting through uncertainty with strength and strategy. That episode is still one of our most listened to and for very good reason. This time, Bria's back to pull back the curtain on her most recent and ambitious move, opening a second interior design office in a completely different city. We'll get into the why, how and what now of growing her team across state lines, building systems that can scale and leading with confidence from afar. Whether you're dreaming of expanding your business or simply curious what it actually takes to make a multi city firm run smoothly, this episode is full of practical insights and candid reflections you won't want to miss.
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[00:01:43] Speaker B: If you've been listening to the Interior.
[00:01:45] Speaker C: Collective for a while, you probably have.
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Hi Bria, welcome back to the show. I am so excited to catch up on the incredible things you have had in the works.
[00:02:21] Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me. It feels like yesterday, but also feels like a lifetime since we've done this. So it's great to be back.
[00:02:28] Speaker B: I know. Absolutely it has. I mean it's already Been at least two years since I saw you at High Point, so, I mean, it's been a minute.
[00:02:33] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That's crazy. You hadn't even. You weren't even pregnant yet.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: I wasn't even pregnant. No. I saw you probably right before we got pregnant. Yeah.
[00:02:42] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:02:42] Speaker B: Time flies. Well, I am so fascinated by today's topic, the concept of a satellite office, because I feel like Covid introduced the world of distance design on, like, a new scale.
And I'm just really excited to dig into distance projects that you've really been doing forever and how you have addressed it. So let's go ahead. Bria, let's take us back to when the idea first came up. What made you start thinking about opening a second design office in another city, totally across the country?
[00:03:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting. I think that really what made it happen was we were growing here in Minnesota as far as our business, and we were struggling to find designers to join our team.
It was hard to find people that understood our esthetic and understood our culture. And while this is a big design community, there's a lot of people who own their own businesses in this town. And I don't know, it was just. It was a challenge for us. So as a leadership team, we sat down and we were like, okay, we need to start thinking outside the box.
What do we need to do differently? We have. We have all this business, and we just don't have the capacity to serve some of these incredible projects. And, you know, it was one of those things that I was like, I just don't want to say no to these people. You know, if they were.
If they were projects that were average or, you know, like, they're good, but not great, but these are all really great projects. So we're like, okay, we need to do something different.
So we decided that maybe we should think about hiring people not from Minnesota. We work all over the country.
Why do they have to be based here? But then when we were in our quarterly meeting, we said, one of the reasons why the people that work for us stay for so long is they love the culture. And how do we continue to have that culture when we have remote employees?
So then that's when it kind of became, maybe we need to open a second location, because that allows us to have employees from other areas, but it also allows us to continue the culture that we have in our firm and give that amazing work environment to another group of people and kind of develop another team there.
So that was kind of the trajectory of how we decided to do it. But then the conversation came of where.
And you know, I like any business owner, you're going to look at where the business is, like, where have we been working the most?
And also where do I love to go? Because if I'm going to have another location, I have to be okay with going there a lot. Right. And even better that my team wants to go there too. So Charleston happened to be a location that we had done quite a few projects for in and we had a handful of clients who were starting to do repeat projects there.
And I if you've never been to Charleston, you have to go to Charleston. It is just, it's kind of hard to believe that's in the United States. Like, it's just feels like a little piece of Europe in South Carolina. So we decided that that was a location that really felt good to good to us. To try and open up a second location, I reached out to our clients. I talked through a lot about like, where should we be in the area? And because I have broken loo my retail business, which right now we're primarily, well, we're all sold online, I thought let's be in an area that I can also have the space service that company too. So we decided on downtown Charleston. And the space that we have signed a lease for is retail in the front and a design studio in the back.
[00:06:38] Speaker B: So exciting. Okay, a couple obviously follow up questions. You know, I'm curious when you say, you know, we had a handful of projects in Charleston, if you had to give me a number as to like how many that is just so someone, you know, can start thinking about that. Is a handful, like five or was it like, oh, we'd done, you know, a dozen projects there?
[00:06:58] Speaker A: No, at the time I think we were, we probably had four project active projects at the time. But what we noticed was when we looked at Brook and Lou and where were customers shopping from around the country. And we can see that on Shopify, you know, so where are we shipping all of our products to? And a lot of it, whether it was Charleston or in that vicinity, east coast, the Carolinas, Georgia, that really stood out to us too. And we just knew that our esthetic, our brand really aligns with the esthetic of the city. So while we didn't have a dozen projects that we had done there, we knew that us being there would make a lot of sense to the people who live there. The other thing I looked at is I did a lot of research on other designers in that area and I actually didn't find another design firm in the Charleston area that really, I thought did the same style that we did, and I found that interesting. I. In my head, I thought everybody would be like us.
When I look at my work, I feel like it is very like, classic, traditional, fresh, younger. You know, it kind of fits the demographic of who lives in Charleston. But there, there really wasn't a lot of designers doing what we were doing. So that also felt good that I didn't feel like I was going to go in and have to compete with a lot of people who were already doing what we were doing.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: Yeah, that is so interesting because, like, I'm with you. I look at your brand and I'm like, yeah, it's like a southern classic, young brand. But I also, I just, you know, knowing designers as I do, I'm like, yeah, I actually don't know of a Charleston designer that. That actually fits that. So, so fascinating.
Okay. Brian, knowing you personally, I know that you are like such an analytical person. You really weigh your pros and cons. Like, you do not make this, take decisions lightly. And so can you walk us through your personal, like, internal decision making process for this? What did you weigh most heavily before saying yes to this expansion? Like, what. What made you finally say, okay, this makes sense from like an investment standpoint. Not only, obviously the financial and like time commitment standpoint, but also just like the onboarding of a team standpoint.
[00:09:10] Speaker A: Yeah. So I am definitely an analytical person. I take calculated risks, so it's very rare that I am just jumping into something for the heck of it. I. If I have something on my mind, I analyze and analyze and analyze, but not for too long, but just enough to make sure that I feel really solid about it. Because I don't typically turn back once I make a decision, you know, so for me, the numbers had to be right. So I. We immediately did like a cost breakdown of like, what can we afford there? What kind of business do we need to be doing in that area to make it feel good about doing it? The fact that it would service both of my brands really helped motivate the decision because we knew that, you know, we had done that long term pop up in Minnesota for Brook and Lou during COVID And I found out from that that I really did love having a brick and mortar store. I just knew that I needed to put it in the right place where it made sense. And Minnesota, just as much as I love living here, it's not necessarily the aesthetic that people are gravitating towards here. So I wanted to be in an area that it made sense. And so we, we looked at, like, what are the. What are the travel needs? Like, one of the biggest things, honestly, that made us say, like, okay, last summer, Delta added a direct flight from Minneapolis to Charleston. And that was huge for us because we were flying there for clients the previous three or four years, and we always had to fly through Atlanta. And that just those little things make a big difference in your life of, you know, if I can just jump on a direct flight and I'm home in two hours, not a big deal. If I all of a sudden have a five or a six hour day of travel, it's just harder to do. So little things like that, that was like, okay, this really feels like the right time. And we've just luckily have had a lot of the. The past two or three years have been really strong for us. So we've had some access in cash too, that we've been saving, kind of waiting for the next opportunity to come up. And so financially it felt like a good time for us too.
[00:11:17] Speaker B: So exciting. I'm so thrilled for you.
So once you decided to open the satellite office, like, what were the initial three steps you took to put that plan into action?
[00:11:28] Speaker A: Well, so the first thing is, before we actually started looking for spaces, I knew that I needed a home base there. So. And I wasn't ready to necessarily invest in buying a house right away because it's a. There's a lot of different places and areas you can live in that area in Charleston.
So I wanted to just kind of feel it out.
So we ended up getting an apartment there. That's a two bedroom apartment that my team could now stay in whenever we're traveling there so we could attract clients. One of my things is if we're going to open in Charleston, we can no longer charge clients for travel to Charleston.
And so I needed to think about that in a cost stance of, what is that gonna. How's that gonna impact the company? And so I decided that if I got an apartment there, that we could stay there anytime we wanted and I wouldn't have to get a hotel in downtown Charleston all the time, which really helped our budget and help offset some of that apartment. The other thing that I haven't talked about yet, but it was a huge part of this, is what, what's good for my family. And Charleston happens to be a place that my family really loves too. I grew up going there with my mom, um, my husband and my kids love it there. And so it felt like a good move personally for us. And having that apartment, which isn't a business expense, but you know, the two or three times a year, even right now that they have capacity to go, they have a place that they can feel like is home too, to them was a huge part of it. So we, we got an apartment last fall, and then once we signed on the apartment, that's when I started looking for spaces.
Um, I will say that the number one thing for finding a location outside of your hometown is finding the right commercial real estate broker. I had started working with one person and he was a wonderful man, super kind, just maybe not as much of a go getter as I was looking for. I tend to be a very like, once I make up my mind, it's time to go. And I knew that it was gonna be a long process. Charleston's a really small town. If you want to be in downtown, it's not very big. There's not that many buildings, you know, and you know, and then put on top of that a budget that, you know, depending on what street you are, the square foot footage, you could be paying $20 more a foot, depending on what street you are. So I needed someone that was really helpful with understanding the area and could be aggressive for me and might know some off market properties.
So I ended up working with a girl named Brooke Irick and she is a jll. She is the coolest girl I have ever met. She's young, she's motivated, she's eager, and within about three weeks of working with her, we found the space that we eventually ended up signing a lease for. And it was not an easy process. That girl, she made every dollar of that commission because they. We had to go through neighborhood meetings getting approval for them from them. For us to be in the space that was currently vacant, we had to get the city to reapprove the building to be occupied again because it had been over three years since anyone had been in the space. There's so many permits that you go through. Like, Charleston has a lot of rules, so. And again, never being through that, like, having to do that on my own would have been impossible. So having her be by my side and the, the feet on the ground running for us was invaluable.
[00:14:54] Speaker B: I want to dig in more to like the space and, and what you were looking for. And please go back and listen to Bria's first episode because she did talk all about brick and mortar and having retail space, but I want to talk about growing your team so you Got the apartment. That sounds amazing.
I'm going to email you because I want to rent it because I've never been to Charleston, so I need to come see it.
But I am curious, where in this puzzle of a timeline did you start finding the team for there? Like, did you already have people in mind or were you like, we're gonna get this set up and then we'll start finding the talent.
[00:15:31] Speaker A: Yeah. So once we get. Once we signed on the apartment, we put up a posting for the design team and we. That was important, and we knew that we could take on a person as long as they live there remotely for a little bit while we were waiting to get the office space. So we started that right away. And then once we signed the lease for a store, we put out the posting for a store manager. I knew I needed somebody that was going to be full time and there was kind of be. Would be responsible for it. And we ended up finding the store manager, like, almost immediately with the posting and brought her on the team. And she's been helping the team with other projects while we've been going through this whole permitting process. And now as the store is being built out, so we are moving into the store in September, and then she'll kind of move into her actual role that we hired her for.
But it's actually been a nice way to onboard somebody because she's learned so much about the back end of the business and she knows so much about the products now since she's been with us for a couple of months and she's really. It's given her time to kind of dive into our brand. So the way that it worked out was great. Of course you're a little nervous of, oh, I'm taking on a person and a salary for somebody who isn't doing. Gonna be doing their job for a while.
But luckily we're busy enough and my team was gracious enough to take the time to do the training to teach her on other things so that she could be productive. The last couple months before the store.
[00:17:03] Speaker B: Opens, obviously you have a huge social media following, so you posting a job apparently got in front of the right eyes, even though someone in completely different state where, like, for the design team, was that a little bit tricky or were you able to just post a listing and you got it, or. And you got great applicants and you went through your applications or what's kind of your process to find that talent in a space or in a place that you're not currently having any footprint in.
[00:17:34] Speaker A: Yeah. So design Team has always been the biggest challenge for me hiring mainly because there's so many different boxes they have to be able to check. It's like you need someone that wants to not own their own business, but has the energy enough to kind of manage a business within yours. People come to our brand for a look. So, you know, we're not one of those studios that does a lot of different styles. So we need the designer to kind of not conform, but understand what BHI aesthetic is and be able to execute that for our clients.
And so I will say that that has definitely been the biggest challenge, is finding a designer that can kind of check all those boxes.
We post a lot on Instagram, we use LinkedIn and we. We were using BambooHR. We have switched back to Gusto now for our HR servicing. And you can kind of control and manage your hiring process and recruiting through those applications.
And so those do some postings for us on LinkedIn and all the different job posting websites there is. But design has been challenging. So we had hired someone in the fall and it ended ended up not working out.
So we're on the hunt for another person, a lead designer. And we're about to sign hopefully with a interior stylist too, that'll be based in Charleston. So you have to be careful. You get a little trigger shy, honestly about hiring designers and wanting to make sure that they know what they're getting themselves into and that they're qualified. Because that is the one thing of them being remote and us being they're kind of remote. You know, they'll be there, but they're not going to be with me or Katie, my design director every day is they have to be strong enough to be able to kind of manage the projects themselves when we're not around and, you know, do a lot of the work with us just kind of overseeing it. And that can be a challenge to hire for and really understand what can they actually do. But we've implemented design activities now. So we give applicants a. Once we do a phone interview with them and then Katie will do like a design interview with them.
Then we have them do a design activity and they have to show us their CAD skills and their selections and we give them like a client's vision board. So we set the tone for it so that they know, because that's what we do. What I do for my projects anyways is I'm typically the one setting the tone and the vision and then the designers are the ones executing and I approve.
So we kind of treat it the Same. And that helps a lot to see, you know, what the skill set is. We had a candidate that we thought was fabulous, resume was amazing.
She, from what she had said on her phone interviews, she had been doing all the tasks that we were gonna need her to do. She was helping another designer run her business basically. And then she sent us the design exercise, and she was missing two of the four documents that we had requested for the exercise. And we checked in and like, making sure you didn't forget this.
And she was like, oh, no, sorry, that's all I did. And, you know, like, that was such a huge red flag to us. I'm like, if you can't even do the design activity for us, I can't expect that you would do it for a client.
And so that's what you run into. And again, I tell the team, we'll get creative with who we're hiring.
Talking about maybe hiring someone that's a lower level designer so that the people that have been on my team, trying to boost them up, see if they're ready to step into a new role, but really it's better to take the time to hire when it's, especially with the design team, a lead designer, it's so important to find the right person. So we're still working on that, but we're. The interior stylists will be really helpful for us because that's basically kind of like a junior level designer on our team.
[00:21:28] Speaker B: Bria, are you planning.
Did you ask anyone from your Minnesota office to move to Charleston? Even if it's like from a temporary standpoint or you're looking for a senior designer and you have a design stylist there, will they have. So let's answer the first question. Did you ask anybody to move? Is that how an approach that you're exploring?
[00:21:53] Speaker A: Yeah. So what I did when we decided to open the second location is I put it out there as an opportunity for the team. I wasn't do it. I didn't make the decision expecting anyone to have to change their life or for me or the company. And, you know, the thing about Minnesota is as much as we complain about the weather here, none of us ever want to leave.
So, you know, nobody was really interested in making the move.
With that being said, I have a lot of team people on my team who are very comfortable traveling. So we're going back and forth, you know, sometimes multiple times a month. And like I said, it's a two hour flight. So for us it's not a big deal. And we have a place to stay. So it's a lot easier when you have things at the apartment to use and you're not having, like, pack full suitcase every time, you know? So that's what we're doing for now. And I'm confident that once the store gets open that we'll have an easier time hiring and filling more roles in the design team. And for now, Katie and I are flying back and forth a lot, and that's okay. You know, it's just. It is what it is. But I did not think that it was fair to, like, say to anyone on the team, like, I really need you to move there.
Um, and maybe once they spend more time there, they. They'll want to, you know, but it's hard to. It's hard to move away from family and do all of that, so.
[00:23:07] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And I love Minnesota. I, you know, I've spent a lot of time there, so I. I get it. I. I don't know about the winters, so.
[00:23:14] Speaker A: Yeah, same.
[00:23:15] Speaker B: Maybe you can start offering them, like, a snowbird option.
[00:23:18] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly.
[00:23:20] Speaker B: I'm curious when, you know, the storefront's open, the. The retail space is open, you guys are moved in. We. What is your ideal team build for that satellite office? So, like, obviously, you're going back and forth. You're. You're. Did you say Katie? Is that her name? Yes, Katie. Katie's obviously in Minnesota. So, like, you're looking for a senior designer. Is there a project manager there? In a perfect world, do you guys even have project managers or do designers handle everything themselves? And then, like, what does their support staff look like? How. How robust of a team do you envision this satellite office to have?
[00:23:58] Speaker A: Yeah, so we are. Our plan is to have a lead designer and then the interior stylist, who's basically the person responsible for all of our photo shoot styling and all of our styling for projects. When we present designs to clients, we present with accessories. So that is. It's on the front end. They're buying furniture, they're buying the bath towels at the same time.
And so the interior stylist has always been responsible for that, and they work with the design team to curate the accessories for the project projects. And then they're also going to be doing all of our E designs too. So it's a big role, and it takes somebody that, you know, is very familiar with interior design, but we don't necessarily require a design degree because they're not doing, like, construction design and they're not doing project management necessarily, and all of that.
My Lead designers have always been the project managers for our projects. Never say never. I'm not saying that I wouldn't change that, but it's always worked out really nicely because our lead designers are very strong in that way. They are also very analytical. And it seems that less bodies in the.
In the circle with the contractors and the clients, and, you know, our clients are drawn to the fact that they don't have so many different people who are answering questions. So I. That's why I stay out of a lot of the questions, too, unless I'm needed.
The lead designers really are managing all the client communication and doing all the project management. And then our design team, we also have like an assistant designers and a studio designer, too. So we have different layers in there. And it's. Sometimes we adjust that based on who's on our team and where they're what. What they're ready for and where their skill set is.
But right now that. That works for us. So goal is to have design or lead designer and a stylist. And then we hired someone to join our accounting team who's based in Charleston. So she starts in September, and she'll be working out of the studio. And then we are currently hiring a assistant marketing person as well.
And beyond that, like, I could see us adding a junior designer to the team at some point there, but the only reason why we would grow beyond that is if we just have so much business that we need to grow, you know, But I'm kind of at the point now with the business that is coming in, that we're leaving our full. Our lead designer position always open, so that if somebody wants to come work for us and feels like they're the right fit, and we feel like they're the right fit for us too, that we have the capacity that we could take that person on if. The only thing is, I just. Right now, I really love having my team in one of the offices. So either they're based in Minnesota or they're based in Charleston.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: I mean, based off of your feedback of just how challenging it can be to find that lead designer, it makes total sense that it's always available because you never know when that's going to. You know, timelines don't always work out perfectly.
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How are you managing onboarding and training for a team that's operating so far from the home base? Are do they come to Minnesota to meet with and be trained by the team, or are you sending down whoever needs to be or is it really remote that's happening?
[00:28:06] Speaker A: I would say most of it is remote with a little bit of us going there. We have talked about having them come here, but it's honestly so much easier for us to come to them. And now with the new office space there, it'll be good for my team to be able to spend time there too. And I mean, no one's going to complain about going to Charleston for a work week, you know, so it's kind of a nice treat for them to be able to use the apartment and stay there too. So that's the plan for now. We do an annual meeting with everybody on the team once a year in January.
That will for now be in Minnesota, which we always joke that like we really find out if they're die hard BHI or Brook and Lou employee when they're willing to come in January to Minnesota. But the last time we did it, our employees from Charleston, when we had one in January, were fascinated by the snow outside and you know, like they thought it was so cool. So, so right now that, that, that continues to be in Minnesota and some one really nice touch point to have everybody in the same room, you know, and just all be together that way.
So that, that's important to me. But obviously flying 20 people one way or the other can be costly. So we try and do as much remote work as we can.
And the training, you know, just like this when you're on video with each other, it's really not a lot of difference. Like there's not a lot of paperwork we're doing anymore. It's all on the computer. So the, the remote zooming and those kind of things for training has been just fine for us.
[00:29:31] Speaker B: Okay, so you outlined kind of what you envision a fully staffed satellite office to look like and you mentioned earlier in the show that at the time of making this decision to open the satellite office, you had four active projects in Charleston. What is like the sweet spot, number of projects, active projects that you would envision this studio to be managing at one time?
[00:29:52] Speaker A: Yeah. So with the team that we have there, I would say like 10 is probably pretty manageable.
With that being said, what we've kind of decided since we do work all over the country, is that the lead designers in Minnesota would handle anything Midwest and west, and then the designer design team in Charleston would handle anything east coast and then kind of gradually coming east, you know, to basically to the Midwest. So within reason, we do a lot of work on east coast, so they'll, they'll stay busy, but it'll be easier for them to commute. You know, if we're going to Florida for a project, it's an easy flight for them from Charleston. We do a lot of work in New York, so keeping trying to keep it location based so that we don't have Charleston employees flying to California all the time. We have a lot of work in California, so that's, that's our game plan for now.
[00:30:46] Speaker B: So, Bria, I know that your team is very much in person. That, that's. But flexible. I know you guys also have you. It is flexible, but people are expected in the office surely on a weekly basis. How are you managing like file sharing, communication, design, presentations between both locations? Are there any like tech tools that you swear by?
[00:31:08] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that one of the reasons why this was so easy for us to take the leap is that everything is on an app or is shared through some kind of web based platform.
So we do all of our design presentations in Canva, so that's accessible from anywhere to anyone. I love any kind of documents that we can work in together. And so that we can all edit at the same time is really nice. So Canva has been really great for that.
And then we use OneDrive to store all of our files.
And obviously the Microsoft suite that comes with that, we do the online version so we can edit at the same time as well. And then we use Asana for task management. We've been using that for years. And that is huge for us because it doesn't really matter where you are. And again, because we work all over the country, you know, I'm working in another state most of the time too. I'm hardly in the office. You know, it's a bit like I had to get on a podcast to make it to the office. Basically, you know, I'm just not here that much. I'm gone all the time. So it's a very normal thing for us to be jumping on zooms and sharing files through different links. And we use Slack to communicate when we're just doing side conversations or about a specific project.
So it kind of feels natural to us to have. It's just like, oh, part of the team is in another state working and you know, it's just going to be more long term that way.
[00:32:30] Speaker B: It's just so interesting to hear you talk about how easy it is for you guys to be doing stuff remotely, but you want your team to all be local. It's funny how you found such a great balance between this, like, remote flexibility while also having that in person company culture. So strong.
[00:32:50] Speaker A: Yeah, I am just a huge advocate for the team having FaceTime. Like when I walked in the office today, there's a group of women sitting in our living room area, all working on their laptops. A lot of them had headphones on, but they just look like they're at home.
But they gravitate towards it too, you know, so it's like we all have the longing to have that togetherness and also the accessibility to your tools, like the fabric samples and all that. That's probably the biggest headache of opening the store. And the other design studio is getting all the tools to make sure that they have all the tools too. You know, we've been. I've been doing this for 13 years now. Like, it's taken a long time to build up that library. So we have some of our intern and our studio assistant is helping with that right now to try and figure out what are the things we use all the time that we need and what are some of the things that we might wait on. Because it's not a huge space, we don't want to flood it with too many samples, but making sure we have that library and the tool set up for them. But we work from home on Fridays, so. So everyone has that.
And sometimes they still come in, you know, just. Cause again, the samples are here, their tools are here, or maybe they have kids at home and they can't focus, you know, but it's flexible. It's up to them. Sometimes they'll come in for an hour or two and go back home and work. Whatever, it works, I don't care. They all work so hard. They get their job done that I don't really care what they're doing. And then they'll be like, oh, I'm getting A refrigerator delivered today. So I'm gonna work from home today. Great. Like, thanks for letting us know. So we're not worried that you got in an accident. You know, we don't walk in the office today, but other than that, like we're not ever saying no, you know. So I think the flexibility is important for people and that respecting their life and their personal life and making sure they have time to do it all. But at the same time, like, I've never really had pushback from anyone working here. They're like, oh, I want to work from home more. You know, they like being here.
[00:34:48] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just looking at your office, I also like being there.
Okay, let's talk about like procurement and receiving because I know you have your own warehouse in Minneapolis because of Brooke and Lou. I mean you're able to run everything through that. How are you going to handle a warehouse in Charleston or will you outsource that?
[00:35:07] Speaker A: Yeah, we outsource it. So even for our design projects here in Minnesota, we still use an outside warehouse for our furnishings. We the Brooklyn Lewis just needs too much of the space to receive furniture and you still need to have the delivery team and the inspecting and having the furniture medics available. So I think it's important my clients have that full service capabilities for their products. And it's not coming to the Brook and Lou warehouse. So it's really going to be the same in Charleston is Charleston is going. We have a warehouse that we've been working there for years that we send all of our clients products to. And we will just continue to do that as normal. And then for Brooke and Lou product we will be. That's going to be a little bit more challenging. We are on East Bay street, so we're downtown and there's no parking where you know, so he's going to have to. If it's a big truck, they're going to have to park in the middle of the street and put their flashers on. But now that I've been there for a year, really noticing those things, everybody does it and it's just a way of life down there. So, you know, I think the delivery guys are just used to hurt and being fast, you know, and making sure they're there when during business hours so they can get their delivery and get out of there.
[00:36:20] Speaker B: Yeah. I was living in San Francisco before moving to Austin. It was like that. You just double park and you just do it and you get out of there.
[00:36:26] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:36:28] Speaker B: I am curious about how much product you plan to store or stock in the retail space. There is a. Is Brick and Lou going to act more so like a showroom that you can buy, you know, pillows, some textiles, a little bit of decor, that type of thing or will it be like pretty heavily backstocked and people are really shopping and walking out with product?
[00:36:52] Speaker A: I think both for furniture, we. It'll be more showroom based. So we'll have, you know, a bedroom setting, a living room setting, a dining setting, but we're not going to have.
It's about, I would say it's about 1500 square feet for the store portion and it's about 22,000 square feet maybe for the design studio and conference room and then there's some offices in the back. So it's not overly large space. With that being said, it's a really large space for downtown Charleston. We got really lucky that way.
So we will have plenty of inventory to shop from. And we are also planning on doing some in store only products.
So we're leaning into some more high end brands with accessories we are going to add some lifestyle in. So some jewelry lines that I've been loving for a long time. A little bit of clothing, a little bit of, you know, just things that I love when I shop.
Just takeaways that, you know, if there is someone that's a tourist not from there and needs to bring something back in a suitcase that they can, you know, I don't anticipate lamps getting chucked in bags very easily. So, you know, I want to kind of be able to have something for everybody.
[00:38:05] Speaker B: I. But I mean, let's be honest, we've all brought a lamp home and carried it on before.
[00:38:10] Speaker A: My latest thing that I keep saying is the garden centers in Charleston are just beyond compared to Minnesota. We just can't get the same flowers. And I was, I keep thinking to myself, like, could I bring that topiary tree in my carry on bag? Like what is allowed? Like I'm staying in the United States so I think I can bring it from one state to the other, right?
[00:38:28] Speaker B: I think you could, yeah.
[00:38:29] Speaker A: So if you see me in the airport with a plant in my bag, don't worry about it. I'm just bringing it from one space to the other.
[00:38:35] Speaker B: Let's keep walking.
Okay. Let's talk about how like review structure might change.
Especially as you are looking for this senior designer. I know that you see everything that goes out the door. So are you gonna build because they're not sitting in your office that you may or may not have been able to get into that day? Are you. Do you imagine that your timelines or your deadlines are gonna have a little bit of a cushion built in in Charleston that you don't necessarily, necessarily need in Minnesota?
[00:39:06] Speaker A: My goal is. No, my goal is that once we kind of get everything up and running, that I might have a little bit more consistent schedule of when I'm going to be there, and we can work around that. There's no way that I'm going to be able to be there any less than once a month. If not, you know, the question is, do I go two times a month and do, like, two or three day trips, or do I go once a month and I'm there for more like five days? I don't know. You know, and we'll. And that might just depend on the season, too.
So I think that some of that still needs to be kind of worked out, and it might just depend on the volume of business we have there. But my goal is that nothing really changes. I do like to do those design reviews in person sometimes. If we have it even now, because I'm traveling so much for other client projects, we'll do it where we have a zoom design review, and we're reviewing frames, floor plans, all of that. But I don't like to review fabrics without being in person. I just think that there's. It's very rare that I am not tweaking things and moving things around and digging through the sample library. So it just would be much more efficient to be able to do those in person no matter what. So my goal is that we just kind of work on that schedule of. Okay. You know, because we're so process driven, when we get that client who signs the letter of agreement, we have a whole asana project that is a template, gets automated, and we start making those dates immediately. So I will know when those design reviews are, and we can schedule my trips around it. Or we might say, like, oh, that project needs to actually shift up two weeks, because that's going to then align with when we need to have those dates.
Or we might need to shift it back two weeks, and then we can be upfront with the client from the beginning. But my intention is not to move dates or times for clients or have our Charleston clients feel any different than our Minnesota clients.
[00:40:58] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, let's talk financials a little bit. You're so amazingly gracious and always happy to talk about money. You know your numbers better than anybody in this business. I've always felt that way.
So you mentioned at the top of the show that you guys have had a few really great years and so you were able to save for this. Was it always intentional that it was saving for this? Or there was kind of like this bucket list pot that you were putting to. And then it was a matter of when we have a big dream, we'll figure out what that goes towards.
[00:41:29] Speaker A: Yeah. So I am a dreamer and I'm a planner, but I'm not a long term planner. So once I have the idea, if it feels like the right thing, I jump on it. So that savings really was just knowing that I wanted to do something more and I wanted both companies to grow and I just didn't know what that was going to look like yet. A couple years ago my, my thought was that I was going to find a location here in Minnesota and create more of this like experience. That you would come to Minnesota and our studio would be there. We'd have a broken loose store, maybe we'd have a coffee shop. And I'm not saying that that won't ever happen, but I'm also oddly like tied to exactly where my office and my house is in location in Minnesota. And so I'm looking at a very small area for land to be able to do that. And so, you know, that just takes longer. And now with the Charleston thing, obviously that is on the back burner, but that, that money that we are saving, you know, in my head was like, well, we're just going to save money because we'll probably need a down payment for that. And then, you know, I think do your research. You know, what has been the best for me is using AI to write these business plans of like how if I want to do this type of business, if I want to add this to my business, here's kind of like high level what the expenses I think are going to be involved. Here's what our numbers are looking at, like for the year. This is what I think I could see our company growing to by next year or the year after.
Write a business plan and tell me if you think this is smart or not, you know, and so like it's kind of like having this little business coach in your back pocket all the time. And it's been really interesting as I've thought about, you know, how do I. I'm fine if I break even for a year or two on the investment that I've been putting into this space and all of that, but I'm not in this to not make money. So, you know, it was really important for me to Kind of map out, like, what's, what's this all gonna look like? And according to ChatGPT, it's gonna be very successful. So you know what I just did? I'm, I'm an open book, so I always share things before it comes to fruition. But the next thing I've thought about is, you know, we have this apartment, but like, does it make sense to be spending all this money on a rental versus buying a house that I could actually put on verbo and make money on? You know, I'm like, I can't really rent out an apartment that I'm renting. That's not allowed. But I can certainly buy a house and do that, and then people could have a place to stay that's beautiful in our esthetic and it could be a great. A lot of designers are doing this. You know, I'm not the first one to think about this. I wrote a business plan with ChatGPT on it and it told me in two years. I gave them a specific, like, here's a house address of a house that was for sale, that just sold, that I know is in a market that allows for short term rentals, because that's a big deal in Charleston. There's not a lot of areas you can do it.
And then I said, like, just show me, like, what the numbers would look like if I spent this much money on it. And in five years, like, how would I end up instead I would have a 205% ROI on it. And I was like, okay. And that. And it did. Even did a risk analysis of like, if you only rent it out 60% of the time, 70 and 80% of the time. And so like, gosh, it just makes sense to me.
We should all make life decisions based on what ChatGPT says. But it is nice to have someone kind of do the calculations for you and then you can analyze those numbers.
[00:44:59] Speaker B: So, and you can tweak them. You can be like, okay, well what if we do it at this house and you're not paying someone an hourly rate to tell you those numbers?
[00:45:06] Speaker A: Right, exactly.
[00:45:07] Speaker B: Well, when you started talking about this, my first question, I was going to wait till the very end. I was like, so have you bought a house? Do we get to see what your house is going to look like there? Do we get to come see it?
[00:45:17] Speaker A: But coming soon.
[00:45:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to talk to your friend Chat and see if they can encourage you to.
Okay, more money questions.
Will there be any sort of pricing difference between the two offices for your clients because they're different markets and things cost different, or is it anybody who comes to you? I believe you do flat rate proposal, right? Am I still on board there?
[00:45:43] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:45:44] Speaker B: Is that still the plan? And are you. Are you adjusting that flat rate proposal based on the location beyond the scope?
[00:45:53] Speaker A: It's always based on location. Every. Every project we do based on location and project type. But it has to be because it's just if I'm doing a project where it's down the street from my house versus and my. Most of my team versus if I have to get on an airplane, like, it's just as a different type of project for us. So it has always been based on location. With that being said, we're talking like a dollar to $3 a foot typically. Like, it's not like a huge swing by any means, but it is something that we consider. And it's also just the.
We also change our flat fee for freight.
So our freight and delivery, that is the biggest swing we see is the cost of doing a delivery for a client in Minnesota or Charleston versus doing one in San Francisco is. I mean, it could be double so that we're always looking at the numbers and making. I will say Charleston market versus Minnesota is very similar though. So I would say those two markets typically tend to be the same as far as what it costs me to do business there. Huh.
[00:46:58] Speaker B: That's so interesting. That's not what I would expect. What do you think has been the most unexpected challenge, besides duplicating your source library about leading a design firm in two different cities?
[00:47:11] Speaker A: Gosh. I would say hiring, you know, just finding the right people. And I think that'll get a lot easier once our studio is actually open. They have a place to go to. They have that sense of team.
I feel like it holds people a little more accountable when they have team teammates that are in the building with them. It's also just finding the right people. Like the. Our accounting person and our store manager are really incredible people. And you. They're trustworthy and they love what they're doing for us. And so, you know, that. That helps a lot. But I would say in general, like, hiring is just. And I've talked to friends in other industries, hiring is just hard. It's really hard to find people that really want to work and do what we do. Like, we work really hard, you know, and we work a lot. And there is such a thing as life balance, but it needs to be flexible. So, you know, a lot of us are Leaving early in the afternoon to go get our kids, and then we're back online later, you know, so just flexibility is huge for us, but it is. It's not an easy job.
[00:48:14] Speaker B: Yes. And I know you have incredibly high standards for yourself and expect that of your team as well. And so finding someone who can really live by that is challenging. Do you find. You know, you mentioned that senior designers in particular are difficult to find for you. Some of the. Some of the things I've heard from principles is that they'll get a senior designer who then wants to go out on their own. Is that one of the challenges that you face, or is it more so people wanting to have, like, a very individualized version of their design? Like, they want to design from their point of view, not necessarily from your point of view?
[00:48:53] Speaker A: Honestly, I would say neither.
Our biggest challenge is finding people who are.
They're qualified enough to do the work that our clients expect us to do.
There's a lot of people who apply for the positions, and I just don't think they really understand how much we do. And I'm like, I know I'm not the only design firm that does this type of work. You know, we're not architects, but we do a lot of work in cad and we. When we project manage, like, we really project manage. We. To the point that sometimes, you know, build teams have said that they felt like we were the job site project manager. Because my lead designers are so in the know about everything. And so on top of like, hey, this is coming up. We need this, this and this, you know, and just, it's. It's all about our processes.
And one of my lead designers is an architect, so that's helpful too, that she has that brain. So I think that's our biggest struggle is when people apply, we're like, you know, that's great that you've been a design assistant for two years, but, like, if we put you into this role, you're not going to be ready for it. And then, like. And I don't believe in giving people pay cuts, you know, so I'm going to pay you as a lead designer, but if you aren't capable of doing the tasks that need to be done, like, it's not going to work. And that's what we've run into. So trying to find somebody that's qualified and can really understand it. Or we hire someone that's not a lead designer, but could be in a year or two, and we just really lean into the training, which is, you know, something that we've been thinking more about. Maybe we just need to really lean into. Like, how can we get these people trained to be able to manage those projects on their own?
[00:50:29] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm curious. You said that hiring's, like, the biggest challenge. But I'm wondering so far, and I know that you've been, like, going through all these permitting issues, and there's been some. Some bumps in the road.
What has been, like, the most rewarding moment since getting ready to open the second location?
[00:50:46] Speaker A: I mean, honestly, the day that we finally signed the lease, it was just like, I. I mean, you and I had been talking about it, and I was nervous to get. Do this before we had it signed, because I just. I don't know, there was a lot of people that had to say yes to us to be able to get it. So finally we had. So the last meeting that we did was with the zoning department. We had to go in and basically apply to have a design studio back in this space.
And the neighbors were really nervous about having any kind of business be there when there's no parking available. There's not a parking lot available near our. Our building. There never has been. And so it was kind of one of those quirky things where, like, well, there's always been a commercial space. There's been design studios in the space that we're moving into before. This building's over 100 years old. It's a hundred. It was built in, like, 1855 or something. I know. It's so cool.
So, like, there is. This has been a thing forever, is having it be open to the public and needing parking. And the neighbors were really concerned about our customers and our team parking on the street where they live and having them have more issues with parking. So it took a long time of me meeting with them. I went to several meetings with them, having side conversations, sending them mailers, you know, giving my personal cell phone number to them to call me with any questions that they had.
And so that last meeting when the neighbors were there and they came up and they even addressed their concerns then of why they objected to us moving in. But at the end, the last neighbor said, as long as she gives us her word that she's going to try everything possible to have her customers park other than our. It's a permitted parking spot. So if someone parks in their spots, it's illegal. You know, like, they could get ticketed. So I'm not like, I don't have this huge concern that we're gonna have all these people wanting to get tickets all the time, you know? But I also understand their concern of they wanna be able to park in front of their houses and not have to walk three, 10, three to four blocks. So when she said, I would love nothing more than to have Bria and her team move into this space, that was like, wow, what? Such a sigh of relief, you know? And it just felt. It just felt like, okay, we're meant to be here. You know, the neighbors. The neighbors are welcoming me in with open arms now, and they understand that we're gonna do our best to respect them in their parking spaces. So that. That was a huge relief for me.
[00:53:12] Speaker B: That's so exciting. Bri, I'm so happy for you. One last kind of culture question.
You are just such a strong leader, and I've had the pleasure. I've had dinner with your team members before, and, like, I've seen what that culture is like, and you've reiterated today how important that culture is to you. But you've also said, like, you're not in the office that much anymore because you're pulled so many different directions. How are you keeping that cult?
How do you. What are a few, you know, maybe small or large things that you're doing? I know you mentioned about flexibility and, like, you're not micromanaging when they're physically in the office, that sort of thing. But what are some things that we can take into our own studios to help build that culture where people want to be four or five days a week and for years and years at a time?
[00:54:01] Speaker A: Yeah, so I think I talked about this on the last podcast, but we use EOs as kind of a way to run our business. And that just builds in the structure of when we see each other, when we connect, and really kind of keeps us accountable for maintaining that culture. So Mondays are meeting days, and we have all team meeting on Monday mornings. So every single person that works for my businesses gets on a zoom call. The people in the office here all sit in a circle on their computers on a zoom call. The team in Charleston will all be in the office eventually, once it's open, in a circle, sitting on a zoom call. But then I have my warehouse team, too, which is a separate location.
They're all on zoom too. And the first thing we do on that call every Monday morning is every single person goes around the room and tells their personal and professional best from the last week.
This is not something that we'll be able to do if we end up having, like, 50 plus people, because it would take a long Time.
But right now we're at like 15 people that do it. 16 people. And everybody loves it. It's quick.
You don't go on for an hour. But it's really nice way for everyone to kind of hear what's going on in each other's lives and hear it's. How do you get to know it? Like, how does my Brook and Lou warehouse team get to know my designers on the team? You know, so it's just kind of a nice, like, oh, I got engaged last weekend, or I, you know, like my kid was sick and we were dealing with all of this or whatever it is, you know, we. It's just a nice way to have some fellowship and share.
And then we do what we call L10. So each team, then after the all team meeting breaks up and they have. And we have a team meeting. So a brook and Lou, L10 and then a BHIL10. And then my leadership team has NL10.
So that kind of minimizes but allows us all to have that, like, face to face every single Monday. No one really skips it. It's very rare that someone's missing unless they're on vacation, obviously. But we try not to book anything else over those and just helps us stay connected. And then we do what we call thirsty Thursdays, which is happening tomorrow. Once a month, we try to do some kind of social thing together. Whether it's someone brings in a treat and cocktails at three or four o'clock in the afternoon and we sit and gather around a table and maybe the design team shows some design presentations we've been working on, or the marketing team chose some new products that are launching for Brooke and Lou, or if I'm doing a new licensing partnership, I can share what I'm designing for that. It's just another way of.
We still are like in the office talking about work potentially, but it's just in a much more social and fun way and staying connected. So those are two things we do. But then, you know, like, I'm having everyone over to my house to go swimming, who live in Minnesota in the first week of September with the kids and the husbands and, you know, those kind of like, nice off site. Now we don't have to talk about work at all.
We try to do those about once a quarter.
[00:57:04] Speaker B: That's so nice. Well, Brea, I learned so much from you every time we get to chat. Thank you so much for coming back on the show. Thank you for rescheduling this with me. And I just cannot wait to come out to Charleston and see the new space.
I'm so excited for you and I'm just so proud of you. I can't wait to see what's next.
[00:57:23] Speaker A: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
[00:57:25] Speaker B: I'll talk to you soon, Bria. Okay, thanks.
[00:57:27] Speaker A: Bye.
[00:57:28] Speaker C: For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more, don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
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[00:57:56] Speaker B: Honor of my career and I cannot.
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Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living.
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