[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: Have you ever wondered what happens when a celebrated interior designer hits a wall and then chooses to rebuild everything from the ground up? In today's episode, I'm joined by Meg Lanagrand, founder of Meg Lanagrand Interiors, who timeless, story driven spaces have long stood out for their layered beauty and impeccable detail. But behind the scenes, like so many of us, Meg reached a breaking point in 20 burnout forced her to step back and completely rethink how she was running her business, what clients she said yes to, how her team was structured, and most importantly, how she could protect her creative energy for the long haul. This conversation is a masterclass in building resilience. Meg walks us through exactly how she restructured her firm, with process at the center shifting from reactive to intentional, from hustle to harmony. We talk about aligning with the right clients, what it really costs to ignore red flags, and how investing in team culture can completely transform the quality quality of your work and your life. If you've ever felt like your business was running you instead of the other way around, today's episode is for you.
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[00:01:52] Speaker B: If you've been listening to the Interior Collective for a while, you probably have heard all kinds of software recommendations and maybe even tried a few. But if your system still feels kind of all over the place, I totally get it. That's exactly why I wanted to share Materio that's M A T E R I O. It's an all in one platform built just for interior designers from concept to install and everything in between. You can try it for
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Hello and welcome to the show. Meg, I'm so excited to chat with you. We were catching up real quick before we hit record and it just seems like it's going to be such a valuable, juicy episode, so thank you for joining us. It's definitely going to be a very candid Personal conversation. And so before we even dig into it, I just want to thank you for being so open with sharing this journey that you've been on. And we're so excited to hear about your incredible, like, recovery from it and just where you are and what your trajectory is. But I just think it's so relatable and really important to hear, especially right, right now. I feel like where you feel like you were hitting burnout, everybody was just exploding in the business and things were so wild and crazy. And I feel like in a lot of ways people could be experiencing burnout right now because they were accustomed to what kind of pace the industry was at before. And now people are feeling overwhelmed because things are slower. The inquiries aren't coming in. So I think even if you aren't in this exact position that Meg's going to outline, I think it's incredibly relatable at any point in your career when you feel like, what happens next, what comes next? So, Meg, I'd love if you could start by sharing a little bit about what first drew you into the world of interior design. Where did it come from?
[00:03:38] Speaker A: Well, I'm originally born and raised in South Louisiana, quintessential large southern family.
And I was raised by women who loved to entertain, love to decorate their homes. My aunts, my grandmother's Sunday dinners were every week, table was set and so, and my aunt is a well known designer in Louisiana. And so I just was exposed to it from a young age. And I think I was always aware of how spaces made me feel ultimately. So when, you know, if I was in a space that I found compelling or interesting and how that made me feel, was I comfortable? Did it smell good?
Is the lighting romantic? Those kind of nuanced details I paid attention to at a very young age.
And it just, you know, as a child, when I was growing up, I would shop garage sales on the weekends on my bike and go pick out things for my room that I would spend my allowance on.
I was always decorating, I was always, you know, thrifting. I was always in college. I was refinishing furniture for my college apartment. I was, you know, painting my walls purple so they looked like Monica's apartment from friends. I was always doing things like that.
I did not study design, interior design. I didn't really kind of connect all the dots until I was almost finished college, that that's what I wanted to do.
So I just finished with the degree I was studying, which was international affairs. And then I started and in college I was working at Antique stores and fine bedding stores, merchandising and putting beds together and that kind of thing.
So I. And it was. That part of my background was really important, witnessing multiple small businesses and how they ran. And looking back now, I can say that that was probably a more valuable education than maybe a technical degree in interior design.
However, I spent many years sort of wishing I did have the technical skills and, and maybe the confidence that would have come with just a piece of paper to say that, you know, I'm officially a professional in this instead of being sort of self taught. And also a lot of it, you really can't teach. It's just you're born with a spatial awareness. We're born with color understanding. After college, I worked for some design firms and ultimately was approached by some dear family friends to work on their home. And I was young, I was 27. I left the firm I was at and took the leap. And I'm skipping a big part of my story, which is that I moved around a lot. I lived internationally, so I grew up in Asia, in Singapore.
We, we jumped around a lot after I left south Louisiana when I was 10.
So, and then I studied in Paris and I married my high school sweetheart who is from New Zealand. So we lived in New Zealand for a few years and I worked for a design firm there.
And, and then ultimately we moved back to Houston or to Houston. I had never lived in Houston before in 2009, but I had been exposed to a lot of different aesthetics and styles. I, I went to university in Colorado.
So that's also an important part of my story because I think that's maybe what's helped me have a more flexible aesthetic when I'm working with clients. It's exciting for me if someone says I don't want any color or it's exciting for me if someone want something ultra traditional. Like it's so fun to flex different creative muscles.
And I think because of my background, I, I have this subliminal education in that I've seen so much and how design changes geographically.
[00:07:46] Speaker B: So at 27, you got that like kind of key client that you're like, I'm going to go ahead and do this on my own. Talk us through that project.
If you hired anybody at that time, if you handled it, start to finish, totally on your.
What did launching your business look like structurally?
[00:08:03] Speaker A: Oh, it was grassroots. It was my mom helping me. It was my sister. Photograph, who's a photographer at the time, was learning photography sort of on her own. She didn't have a Fine arts degree in photography, but is an amazing photographer and she was doing my photography and we were styling shelves and we got that house published in a Texas magazine and that was exciting.
I was working on my own house, which was a little bungalow, 100 year old bungalow in the Heights in Houston and thrifting left and right. I was, I mean we were young and that home. I ended up getting published in Better Homes and Gardens.
I eventually hired an assistant that was part time. And then I got pregnant and I honestly, I didn't really. I sort of. I didn't take myself seriously. I didn't think I actually had talent. I, I thought I was just.
It was so fun and it's still now it's again, fun, fun again for me. But it, I love it so much that it was never work.
It was more of a passion than a job or a career. So I never thought I'd have an office. I never thought I'd have a team. I was doing it out of my house, helping people, helping friends, not really believing in myself to be honest, because of that kind of hang up I had about the degree.
Um, and it was pretty, it was pretty amateur. I was like playing designer, but, but successful because I was getting projects published. So they were being well received. I was making money again. We were so young that any money I made was amazing. Right. Like, it wasn't as if I had left some like high paying corporate position and then, you know, took a pay cut. It was.
I had started from nothing and was just growing. So every year was better than the previous.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, so how long were you managing that? I know you said you eventually hired your assistant. An assistant. But how long did that last before what we're gonna get to in talking about that burnout really hitting?
[00:10:14] Speaker A: So I had my first child and took a break, took a year off, let the assistant go. I mean, I was kind of like, this is a hobby job. And I thought I was going to be a stay at home mom and that I'm active, I'm energetic, I am hyper. I. That lasted not very long. Then I was like, I gotta do something, I gotta go back to this. And my phone kept ringing. I mean, people were calling me and. And then I had my second child and I just kind of kept growing. I remember reaching a point with my second child that I was like, I cannot do this inside this house anymore. I need an office.
And that really, once I got an office outside of my home was a big moment that was like, okay, this is for real. This is a Real job. This is a real company.
And I slowly started hiring people. I always only had one or two. It was small. I think I got up to five, four or five by the time I hit burnout in 2019.
So that period of time of about, I would say, I mean I started my business in 09, so I guess that was a 10 year trajectory.
And I, I didn't work long enough for other firms to really witness solid procedures or solid standards or solid process.
So I was just kind of shooting from the hip.
I mean, we'd get more calls, we'd get more projects. I would say yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. How exciting. Like people want to work with us. Yes. The answer's yes. And I never ever, along that time, stopped and paused and was like, I need to work in the business to adapt to this growth.
I was just saying yes and making myself crazy eventually to the point where I, you know, hit, hit rock bottom. It was really hard.
[00:12:10] Speaker B: Can we start to talk about that? Can we go back to 2019, which is a really interesting timeline because that was the year before what universally people believe really exploded this industry when Covid hit in 2020.
So back in 2019, what was happening behind the scenes when you feel like burnout hit?
[00:12:34] Speaker A: So I had three people working for me, we were getting bigger projects. I mean, everything was rolling.
And I got pregnant with a third child and so did my most senior employee. Designer at the time was pregnant too. And so, and we were about a month apart. And so looking back on what I know now compared to what I know then, I can say I had a dysfunctional team led by me. I mean I created it. I, I didn't know how to even growing up. I always played individual sports. Like I ran track, I ran cross country. I was just a independent person. I, I truly was never even really taught how to be a teammate or a team member.
And so I just operated independently. I didn't really release control like I should. I didn't really ask for help. I didn't really. I wasn't vulnerable. I wasn't. It was like, yes, I can do this. Everything was a yes, yes, yes, yes. Without that much self reflection or awareness to say is that the right decision for me or for us or for everyone or I was just moving so fast. I never paused to really reflect or think.
So we were growing and we were physically outgrowing our office space.
So it felt very crowded and claustrophobic. And the more of that, I didn't even actually physically like being in my office.
So I Wouldn't go there. I would just job site to job site to the Dex center to antique shop, and then go home.
And so there was just disconnect that I created.
And so we were managing projects, installing projects, getting published, winning awards, I mean, doing all the great things that Instagram's like, wow, that is amazing. But on the inside, what nobody knew it was. I didn't even know, Honestly, I didn't even know until afterwards how fractured it was. And I had my child at the fall of 2019, and so did my design designer.
And she took maternity leave and I paid her for three months and she had a normal. I believe in, like, how can we help women? All these good things, you know. So I'm like, of course take three months of maternity leave. Of course I'll pay you. This is the culture I want to create. Well, did I get a maternity leave? No. Was I installing two floors of bookshelves in a double height library four weeks after I had a C section with my infant in a carrier on the kitchen island? Yes.
And so, you know, and that created some resentment and some jealousy and frustration.
And now that I know what a part resentment plays in burnout, it all makes total sense to me. But at the time, I.
At the time, I was proud of myself. I was like, look at this work environment I'm creating for other women. Meanwhile, I'm completely getting burned and killing myself in order to provide for others and not looking after myself.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: I feel that so deeply. We have a kind of revolving door here at IDCO of moms or women becoming moms. And I just became a mom. And you know, thank you, it's wonderful. But yeah, everybody gets 12 weeks and we're in Texas, so that is not compensated outside of anyone but me. And I certainly did not take 12 weeks. That certainly did not exist. So I feel that so much. Luckily, my team was amazing, so that burnout did not hit me, but I feel that from a business operation standpoint, so deeply.
[00:16:24] Speaker A: So when the pandemic hit just a short few months later, I. We were traveling in New Zealand for spring break to baptize our baby. In March 6th is the day we left 2020. And we left knowing full well that Covid was a thing because we lived in Asia during sars, but we thought we better go on this trip because things look crazy. So surely there's plenty of time for us to go have this trip for two weeks and then come home and then it'll all get insane. Well, what we didn't really realize was how Fast. I mean, it was like zero to 60. I mean, I think by March. I forgot. 12th, we were locked down in New Zealand with, you know, three children, one who's an infant halfway across the world. And we chose that. We chose to stay. You know, we had a decision to make at the time, like, do we get on a plane with all these travelers, people who have been traveling all over the world to head home with a baby that isn't even fully vaccinated yet with his normal shots?
I was. I mean, it was such a scary time. So we were so scared. So we were like, let's just hunker down. I mean, at the time they were prepping our stadium for a hospital, it was, you know, really dire news. So we were like, let's just hunker down in New Zealand and see how this plays out. Well, we ended up being in New Zealand for almost 10 weeks, and construction was considered essential workers here in Houston and Texas. So the projects we were working on did not really pause in terms of their movement. And so I was, I mean, trying to run a business from across the world, nursing a baby with.
Two of the three of my team members were moms. So they're home with their kids who are all wanting to be paid in full yet do no work. So that, I mean, there was some work that got done, but it wasn't the culture I had created. There wasn't like ownership. You know, it's so different than my team currently. But only I was the one up in the middle of the night all night making sure orders were getting entered and decisions were getting made as we could from the computer to keep the train on the tracks. And by the end of that 10 weeks, I had already let go of two people, I think, or maybe right when I got home.
One got released while I was in New Zealand and one when I got back. I think it's hard for me to remember. Anyway, long story short, by the time, By June of 2020, I was down to me just running the show and my emails were insane. My phone was ringing off the hook. I need a new desk. I need a study at home. You know, I mean, the inquiries were out of control and I was drinking from a fire hydrant, just trying to do the things I had committed to. Not even being able to answer inquiry. I couldn't even respond. I mean, I think there's still people out there today to be. That are probably like, she didn't write me back, you know, I mean, I'm mortified by that. It's I'm sorry to all y'. All.
I just, I. I was in, you know, a really dire situation and I ended up high calling just in a moment of absolute crisis, a woman who was the manager of Schumacher for 15 years and she had left Schumacher maybe the year before that. And I didn't know where she went. I, she went to a show.
I just remember, I remember her. Mia, this is a shout out to you. Her just being so professional and easy to work with and lovely. We weren't that friendly or close or anything. I just had. It was honestly like divine. Like something told me to call her and I had to go through like five people to find her phone number to find where she was.
And I called her on the phone and basically was like, can you please come work with me? Can you come tomorrow? And she was ecstatic. She was like, I'll be there tomorrow. Yes. The answer is yes.
And looking back on that now, I mean, what a blessing. It was just so amazing. And she really saved me. She still saves me. But at that time I just was so. I had so much shame about having to fire my whole team, having my team fall apart and crumble, having not not being able to answer any of these inquiries. I was struggling so much. It was very shameful. And she was cheering me on. I was like complaining about our office and it being too small and, and she was like, I love it. It feels like we're in Europe up here. She. Everything was positive, everything was possible, everything was supportive and, and in my mind I was like, I'm quitting. This is. I'm going to finish these jobs I have committed to and that's it. I can't. I'm not accepting anything new. I don't want to do this anymore.
This isn't fun. I have no creativity. I was really depressed and, and she was just in my ear, you're so talented and I just love you so much. And I mean, it was so amazing and important that I had that support from her because that's honestly one of the major reasons I've been able to get through this. And so she immediately, she knew the business so well. She hadn't done the job I was asking her to do. Exactly. Like procurement and office management stuff. Exactly. Like, she wasn't familiar with our pro studio designer, so there was a learning curve there. And, and because I was just at my wits end, I was not that patient. I mean, looking back, I was kind of a monster.
And she was nothing but a smile, nothing but a can do attitude.
And so she really helped me through that time. And we did. We finished the jobs we committed to, and I was not accepting anything new. And I was going around town telling everyone I was quitting. I mean, for almost two years. I am not. I did take one project on a little bit as a test, and thank God I did, because that project reminded me that I do have a gift to share with others, and that's worth fighting for. And I can remember going. I can remember being so creatively depleted that I thought to myself, I don't know how I'm going to get ideas on how to do this whole house. I mean, it was a big house, and.
And the husband was from New Orleans, and I. I just felt like we had synergy. Like, okay, if I'm gonna take one, this is a good one. They're young. And I was like, you know, I think this will be fun. And I can remember laying at yoga one night at, like, an evening class, and we did everything outside because of the pandemic. You know, we were in the heat of the pandemic, and I'm, like, laying on this mat outside, and the sun was setting, and I remember, like, looking at the sky, thinking, gosh, this is so beautiful, these colors. It's like periwinkles and pinks and mustard yellow gold. You know, it was just so stunning. And I was like, I guess that's my color palette for this house. I mean, I was just grasping at straws, like.
And that is the color palette we did for that house. And it's so pretty. I mean, it was on the COVID of Lux magazine.
Was. It turned out beautiful, the house. But I remember at the time just feeling very. And I was very honest with those clients the whole way through. I was like, I don't have a team. I am struggling.
I am saying no to every single phone call. I even answer a lot of them I'm not even answering. And they were so patient with me and really kind about it. Looking back on that, I'm so appreciated, appreciative of their empathy, because I just couldn't even hold it back. I couldn't even hide it. I couldn't even hide what a struggle I was going through.
It was all over my face. It was all over my energy.
[00:24:29] Speaker B: You know, I am so curious as to how did that client find you? And, like, with so many designers who feel like they can't stop or slow down, like, it's. I've got to book the next project because we're in construction. We're going to be Wrapping this up, you. You were saying no to everybody. I'm curious how this particular sweet, young family was reached out to you and were like, oh, this is who I want to work with. And really why you decided to kind of let your guard down and show them that in that moment, they were.
[00:25:06] Speaker A: Collaborating with an architect that I had always wanted to work with. So that was one thing. I was like, wow, like, what an opportunity for me. You know, I should try.
I am still getting calls from friends in Houston, other designers, because I'm. I have been since all this happened, so open about this. Like, everybody knows that this happen to me, who knows me? And I got a call recently from another designer, and she's like, meg, I just want to go on a sabbatical so badly. How do I do it?
And I'm like, well, first of all, mine was not by choice. Mine was forced upon me. But looking back, it was the greatest thing that ever happened to me, like, being able to. What I learned was I did fall apart, and I was able to, like, rebuild myself. And now that's been able because I did that, because I fixed just myself. I've been able to create a team and create a structure and create a whole new version of my business that I'm, like, beyond proud of and fully supported by and all of those things. But if I hadn't had that space, if I hadn't had that crisis, I really don't think any of that would have ever happened. So I've been telling. Like I told her, I said, you can absolutely do it. You finish what you have.
You tell everyone I'm on a sabbatical.
Call my friends, you know, over here and over there. They'll help you right now. And I'm coming back in a year or two, and you know what? It's totally fine. Like, your works, everyone, our work stands for itself, right? Like, the pictures are there forever. Like, we don't lose. This was actually. This is the best answer for this question, because I'll never forget my husband.
I mean, I had those feelings. I had those feelings where, like, no one's ever going to call me again, or I'm never going to get to work again, or. Or if I don't get this project photographed, it didn't exist. And that was my biggest. Because this is what happened. One of my biggest projects, we ended up not ever shooting. And.
And, you know, there was just no proof of it, really, that I had worked on it for three years and was so proud of it, immensely proud of it.
And I Remember my husband telling me in that moment when I was just so devastated that I didn't have the pictures.
And he goes, your creative well is never depleted. You can create and create and create and create. You can recreate. And so that's what I would tell anybody who wants to take a break or take a sabbatical. Just because you pause doesn't mean your creative well is empty. Your creative well is there. In fact, taking a pause allows you to refill, allows you to come back with a different perspective. You come back with new ideas.
So it's completely possible.
And like in my case, it wasn't exactly like I planned it. It wasn't like I had a whole, you know, okay, I can tell everybody that this is going to go down. It just boom, I was hit in the face with it.
[00:28:00] Speaker B: So at that. Up until this point, you have one person helping you and you're down to the one single project. Did you ever actually take time off because one project is still one project? Did you ever actually say, I not working for Even if it was a month?
[00:28:21] Speaker A: No, there was always purchase orders happening. But I was, I then I did hire someone.
It's hard for me to remember the exact time, but maybe a year after I'd hired the first person to help and she fell in my lap and is my, one of my senior designers to this day, running our Austin office. She's incredible.
She so competent and so organized. She's a Virgo. She's just the best.
And looking back, but I was, because I had these two new team members who were just so capable, I was able to take breaks.
We took a two month, or I forgot, not two months. It was maybe five weeks. We took a five week trip driving around west United States from Houston, all the way through Navajo Nation to Wyoming, Idaho, I mean, everywhere.
The next year we spent five weeks in Costa Rica.
So I was taking these big extended periods of time for healing and self reflection.
Now, technically, my business was still open. I mean, we were, I wasn't that involved. I was forwarding emails or thumbs upping something, or in the night if I got a wild hair, screenshotting a few antiques, that might work. I was creative directing, but I was completely out of the logistics, the production of any of it.
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Let's then talk about what were the structural changes you made to your business as you started to rebuild this, as you went from that first hire when you called that previous Schumacher rep to I just got to get through these projects that I'm already committed to, to we're gonna take on one more project and kind of test the waters to then a year later, but hiring that next lead designer.
You talked at the top of the show about how kind of that toxic environment that existed. You admit you're like, I'm the one who created that, because I didn't really know how else not to. Like, I didn't know how to lead. So what, what have you done to prevent those same things from happening again and to create a better company culture where you're able to go out for five weeks at a time and, you know, pop in, pop in, check on everybody virtually, but be gone for.
For extended periods of time to self reflect and re energize and refuel your creative wealth.
[00:31:50] Speaker A: Well, we hired a business coach. And so one of our premier architects in Houston, who was a mentor to me, tragically passed away in a plane crash during this time. And that was another just horrific, tragic, shocking event that knocked us all down in, in Houston.
And, and we had a pro, a current project happening, and his partner, who he was about, I don't know, 10 or 15 years older than me, but his partner, who's closer to my age, was left with 50 projects on the books and just an immense amount of stress and not. And then, you know, navigating the horrific grief.
And we would meet about once a quarter or every couple months for lunch, just as friends, like, supporting each other through this grief.
And I started to watch him pull himself out of it, like the, the desperate desperation of just all of it, the pandemic and this death that happened. And it was just. Everything was sad.
And I remember just being like, andre, how are you doing this? Like, what is. What is pulling you out? And he's like, well, we hired a business coach And I was like, over at Taco, I was like, I need this business coach's phone number immediately. Like, I want to be you. I want to do what you're doing. I want to be happy again.
Lead me, teach me the way. And so I can remember being in the parking lot, walking out of the lunch, calling him before I could even get in my car. And we. And Dave is amazing. We still meet with Dave. Dave met with Dave on Monday. So Dave had us do at the very start.
And then Becky. At around this time, Becky had come to me and said, I want to bring somebody on the team. No. Becky is our senior designer that runs our Austin office, who is my second hire.
And I.
I mean, I was sort of like, what? You know, my old way of being would be I make all the decisions or I do the hiring or I pick the people who work here. So I was kind of like. And she's like, we need this. We need this woman.
Trust me. So I was like, okay, I'll meet with her. I met with her. I was like, okay, let's do it. Yes. So I guess looking back, that was really like, the first. One of the first moments that I was able to trust in a team, trust my team members and Dave. As Dave started to work with us and to coach us, the first thing we did was take this kind of like a Myers Briggs, but it's called Berkman. It's this personality test that shows you your usual behaviors, your needs, your interests, your stressors.
And when everybody does it, then we're able to know kind of how each other work, how we work together, what, you know, what our needs are, all those things. So we all took this test, and we all started to learn about each other, and Dave started coaching us and coaching me about what a successful team looks like and about conflict and the essential need for conflict in a successful team. Well, I'm a people pleaser and a Southern girl.
Conflict. I mean, how dare you? Like, no, we run from conflict. We ignore conflict. We hide conflict, right? Like, that is not something we embrace.
So I really had to.
I was. I was so desperate, in such a desperation place that I was completely open to anything. I was like, I will try anything. I will learn anything. Teach me. I was in therapy. I was doing yoga, meditation, plant medicines. I mean, I was astrologers, doing every healing modality I could get my fingers on. But Dave started teaching us about healthy conflict and about trust.
And I was so committed to being a better person and to healing from these feelings I had that I was like, yes, I completely on board.
Teach me, help me, show me.
[00:36:00] Speaker B: That's so fascinating because when we hear Business coach, I'm thinking this guy Dave comes in and is like, oh, we need to reorganize your files like this. And we need to do X, Y and Z like this. So but for it to be like, hey, we need to better understand how to have heart conversations. We need to better understand how to deliver information to this person because this is how they receive information.
Um, the fact that that was like the top line, like the first step is really fascinating. I'd love to dig in a little bit further into besides these really high level, High level, but also foundational means of communication and understanding how to lead.
What other kind of specifics at that initial standpoint was Dave helping you through?
[00:36:49] Speaker A: I mean, this is a little one, but an important one. And I think it's pertains to all of our lives as designers.
So in our Berkman exploration, it lists things that are your stressors and stress behavior. You have stress behavior when your needs are not met.
And so one of one of mine was, I become stressed with over scheduling.
Well, what designer is not over scheduled? I mean, we are cramming it in. We are quoting things from the car. We are.
I mean, it's crazy the life I was leading with that, with how over scheduled I was. And so knowing, just having the awareness now, just being able to say, okay, I become stressed if my day is too scheduled. My team knows that about me. They are. If a rep is like, I want to come in and meet with Meg, they're looking at the schedule and they're like, not for two weeks or they're coming to me. This problem happened on site, but you have these other things. Would you like me to go today or would you like us to go tomorrow?
You know, they are giving me choice. They are protecting me, shielding me from what stresses me. And we do that all for each other. Knowing. Knowing each other's usual behaviors, needs, and stress responses.
[00:38:15] Speaker B: Can you talk me through a little bit of what Dave helped you discover?
I'm hearing what he helped you understand. You needed your team to understand in order to serve you best. What are some of the things that Dave helped you understand that you could be a better leader to your team as well?
[00:38:30] Speaker A: Oh, wow.
The main thing is trust.
So I'm just listening so much more carefully. Or I'm trying to. I'm really trying to.
So I now realize that I'm just a piece of the whole.
And I only know What I know and that the other members of my team have ideas and perspectives and experience that when their pieces are put in the pie, the grater is so much bigger, better, more powerful, more creative, more efficient than my individual contribution. And I think they are not afraid to come to me with anything, a problem, a mistake, difference of opinion.
And that doesn't mean I'm going to say yes or agree, but it invites conversation to explore.
And that has been so important for us in our success in our research for this episode.
[00:39:36] Speaker B: I know that a huge, huge, huge portion of what you changed when you kind of revamped the business is systems and processes. That it was, like you said, more like off the cuff, just yes, yes, yes to everything. So we're going to get into that. But I am curious as to what specifics with these new hires did you change from like, sort of like an HR perspective? You mentioned that the maternity leave led to some resentment because you were going through your postpartum existence without a maternity leave. Were there things that you changed that you're like, hey, I'm not going to make that same mistake again, or were you like, that is still really important to me and it was unfortunate that it lined up at the exact same time to allow that to build and I didn't set up a way for me to step aside, like, what were some of the like, hard black and white changes you did or chose not to make in order to set up a safer, more successful space for the new hires.
[00:40:37] Speaker A: So we are. One of the other things I've learned through my Berkman is that I'm like off the charts flexible, which is an amazing quality. But it can also be very problematic because I could get blown either which way and not get too bent out of shape. Well, so as a working mom, I need flexibility in every part of my working life in terms of. So we. I still stand by this way of being at our office of like, if you want to go to that exercise class at 4:30, go for it, girl.
And. And they'll come in at 8:30 or check in for an hour when they get home later that night or so. We have a very flex structure in that sense. I also pay my team hourly rates because a lot of the girls are in these age brackets where they're going to bachelorette parties and weddings and showers and if they want to take a long weekend and take off on Thursday night, but still, you know, want a full week of work and work all the hours they can. And I. And so I don't I'm with PTO and stuff like that. It just makes it easier that they can, if they want to work 80 hours in a week, go for it. There's enough work to do.
So I'm. That has been a way that I think has helped motivate.
And it's weird. There's kind of like an old way of thinking that that is, like, not as serious as like a salaried employee. I mean, I think they all probably make more that way than they would have if they had been salaried. So I still believe in that structure. And so that's one thing. And then with them, they brought organization. And Dave. Dave suggested, are there any standards here?
Oh, no, Dave, there's not.
So we created them and we worked for a couple of years on what is which projects of ours have been the most successful. And when I say the word successful, I don't mean profit or attention it received with awards or publications. I mean ease which projects are.
Or in my yoga world, they say in a state of flow, like, what are those projects? And let's dig deep into those projects and figure out how and why they are that way. And when we investigated, it's a combination of A, aligning with the correct client and B, standing up for and holding the boundary line of our procedure and our process that we know proven that works, holding firm on that. And when clients suggest or try to interact or behave in a way that is outside of that, that's not in alignment with us, and that doesn't work, the flow's gone. And that's where tension comes, or that's where problems come, or misunderstanding or miscommunication. And so we were able to create a process for ourselves, analyzing data and experience, and we hold true to it. I mean, and our process helps us align with the correct clients.
Because even through the interview process, if prospective client is not engaging in the way we are suggesting or leading it, it's an immediate no. Or, you know, it's not. It's not personal. It's just we are looking for people who are in alignment with our values and in our process. And we.
[00:44:30] Speaker B: That's.
[00:44:30] Speaker A: Those are the projects we want to work on because they are in the flow state. And that's fun. Nobody wants tension. Nobody wants miscommunication or added stress. It's already stressful enough creating something that never existed before.
There's always gonna be problems.
[00:44:47] Speaker B: So I'd love to talk about how your firm's success now really lies in committing to the process. And I noticed that you outline your process loosely, but you outline your process on your website. And I think that's really interesting. Cause a lot of designers are not doing that these days. A lot of designers are like, here's our pretty portfolio essentially. Here's our about and here's a contact page.
Can you walk us through what your process looks like now? We can, we can. Big picture. But from inquiry to install, like, what does your process consist of? That took you two years to build up with your business coach and your new team.
[00:45:25] Speaker A: So it's interesting. I love that you're bringing this up because we, we never had our process visible or, you know, on our website. And we worked with my good friend Joe with who has Niter Creative here in Houston to help us with our brand strategy and help us with a new website right before. We recently participated in the Kips Bay Palm beach showhouse. And through that process with her, she has a process for her business and doing the branding strategy. And through that investigation, we all realized how important our process is and how proud of it we are. And she was like, we need to tell people that we need to.
If that's how, if that's how passionate you are about this work you've done as a team and with the guidance of this coach and how you've literally seen it work so well in these projects, let's announce it. And so people, people know that. And if that's what they're looking for, they know where to find it.
So we. One of my values is that I like individuality. And I want all of my projects to feel and look different. I want them to look like the homeowner.
I don't desire my work to be identified as mine all the time. I'm really just looking to create something that feels comfortable and warm and that is going to look different to different clients, aesthetics or what they want. And so that requires some investigation on our part to figure out what is it that they want and what is it that they're looking for. I am not in this business to inflict my specific style or point of view upon others. I have one, but I don't need all of my projects to look like my own house. I want my house to look like my house.
So we, we, we worked with clients at the beginning to really dig into what do they like and what do they don't like. And a lot of times they don't know.
So we are picking apart imagery that they provide and that we provide to really dig deep.
I mean, most recently I had proposed this sofa for A family that was in a print, kind of a wild print. And she was like, ooh, I'm not sure about that. And I was kind of like, is this something I should push her on? Or is this.
You know, that's where my flexibility gets kind of troublesome, because sometimes I need to just speak up and be like, this is the right choice. Trust me. And sometimes. But my. My inclination is to be led by the client to say, I want it. I want you to love it no matter what. So typically, I'll of course, be like, okay, let's pick something else. Well, I went back and looked at our pictures and her pictures on from this discovery phase, and there wasn't a single print in any photos.
So that gave me my answer. I came back to her, and I was like, girl, you don't like prints.
Shame on me for presenting this print like, you showed me what you like, and that's not it.
So we spend time getting to understand what the clients want, how they want to live, what colors are they into or not into, et cetera. And then we design everything in full and present everything in full. Because I also like my interiors to tell a story and to feel cohesive. And my flexibility doesn't like things to always have to sit in the same place they were bought for.
You know, I like to move things around my house. So I want to create a full interior where in a few years, if you wanted to bring that chair from the guest bedroom down into the living room, it's probably going to work. So we do the full design.
I mean, fully. And we do that. No, we do construction decisions first and then furnishings.
But parallel to this design is a budget.
Actually, in the budget, the budget comes even before, during the discovery, and a lot of times it even comes before we sign, because I don't want to get involved in something that somebody thinks they're going to get. This one, they're going to get a picture on my website, or what they see, right? They're like, I love everything I see. I want that.
And then, you know, they don't realize that that was how $300,000 or whatever it costs. So.
So we present. We have so much great data that we're able to really, really accurately predict how much a project will cost. And we present that and discuss that before anything else. And that's a great habit to get into, because a lot of times it tells us right then and there, is this the right fit?
[00:50:18] Speaker B: So you're using your data to not only predict your design fees, but also the construction and furnishing budgets. Construction as far as like, you know, allowances. Yes. And then your furnishing budgets as well. So that data is really helping you. You're getting someone to sign on to those numbers before they even sign on to use you as their designer, officially. Got it. How are you billing for that time? Because to get those numbers now, it sounds like you have a lot of historic data that you can pull from. So it's probably not as cumbersome as someone who's like, I need to figure out all these things because I don't have the data. But are you doing this work for free and then hoping that they sign on, or is this billed hourly? How do you kind of handle the charge?
[00:51:03] Speaker A: We don't charge up front for that.
It is a cost on us for time. But look, I would much rather a couple of hours spent by one of my senior designers up front than engaging with a client that were in misalignment. You know, a misaligned partnership is detrimental to the whole flow of your entire company. So if, if it cost me a few hours of investigation up front, we're happy to do it.
[00:51:37] Speaker B: I'm sorry, Meg really blanked on my question there. So you are.
When someone's first inquiring, I assume that you are getting like a, hey, how much do you think you're going to spend on this project? You're getting like a very big ballpark number from them to see if it's even worth spending that investigative time.
[00:51:54] Speaker A: Yes, yes.
And also just the scale of things. Right. Like, we can, we can understand like, okay, this is a whole house or this is a single room, or we.
[00:52:06] Speaker B: Yeah, just a first floor renovation or whatever it might be.
[00:52:08] Speaker A: We can get a good idea. I mean, it's amazing what you can tell by a quick one hour visit. But, but we do phone calls before and investigation, just straight up front off the bat to just understand is this the right fit?
[00:52:26] Speaker B: So, okay, when you are in the design presentation phase and you are designing everything and presenting everything, I noticed that you also emphasize something that you referred to as a parallel path between design and procurement. Can you talk us through what that phase of your process looks like?
[00:52:44] Speaker A: Well, because we've established this very detailed and very accurate budget from day one. We are led where to shop.
We are. And we do, we do three columns, high, medium, low.
Because everyone values different things. I have clients who are buying $70,000 antique rugs, and I have another client two streets over who's like, oh, my gosh, my dog. And My kids are going to ruin that rug. I want a $2,000 rug so my data can get skewed depending on people's values.
So up front in the investigation, we are talking about that. We are talking about, is it art or is it rugs? Is it fabrics? I have another client. I remember, I mean, we put mohair on everything. She loved fabric. I have other clients. If I had suggest, you know, a $300 a yard fabric, they'd be like, you're out of your mind.
So we are just steering the ship. I'm not here to tell someone what they should or shouldn't value.
I'll never forget. I. I love dressmaker details. I have this gorgeous shower curtain in my bathroom that was like $3,000 double layered trim, ruffled edge. I mean, just gorgeous shower curtain.
And I was like, this will be so precious for these little girls bathrooms. And. And the value of the. What they were spending in the home warranted this.
And we quoted it. And I'll never forget. She was so upset, so offended. How dare you present a $2,000 shower curtain to me. I want Serena and Lily.
I would never spend that on a shower curtain. And I was like, of course. I'm so sorry. Like, I did not mean to appear as if I was taking advantage or anything. That just is what I care about. I mean, I'd rather drive a 50 year old car, but have that shower curtain because that's what I care about.
I don't care about cars. I trash my cars. My kids trash my cars.
So the budget even, and we do it with like a high, medium, low range, so people are getting a range so that there's flexibility within these columns and within these sections. And if they fall in love with something that's on the high end, then in another room, we're shooting for, you know, something in the lower end. Anyway, they all offset each other. And we, we work very hard on that.
[00:55:08] Speaker B: So when you're doing your presentation, is your client seeing three options of every item? Or this is in the initial budgeting conversation. And they're like, well, let's go ahead and spend a little bit more on the custom sectional. And then, you know, side tables, you can go low on the side tables. Like, is it that conversation or is it your presenting options selected for them?
[00:55:32] Speaker A: So truth be told, most of the time when I'm picking things, I don't look at the numbers and I don't pay attention. I am looking for scale, for taste, for style, and for cohesiveness. And then I have my Little sheriffs back in the office that are like keeping me in line, like, okay, Meg, you're crazy. That rug is the GDP of a small nation. Doesn't work.
So they'll tell me on the back end if something's just completely off and. But look, some people don't know what they want unless they're shown. So we've been in situations where it was not in the budget, but they're like, we want that. We, we have to have that. We didn't know we could have that, and that's what we want. So I always tell people, like, there is no pressure. We will always find what is in the budget that they feel comfortable for.
But we're also showing, sometimes a lot of times it's one option, sometimes it's multiple options.
And that's where my flexibility is important. I just, I don't get to rarely get too hung up on one particular thing that like, this is it or nothing. I, I know that there are lots of options for us in what we're looking at.
Um, but I'll give you an example. So we're doing like a whole house right now. And in our line item, budget for the living room sofa was our line. Our budget number was 32,000 and we were presenting a really high end sofa with a great fabric. And, and I think if you had, if I had shown a client that just like by itself, that is like very scary, right? Like, exactly, exactly. Or in our case down here, a year of tuition.
So it. We. But because we're talking about a whole number, this is the, this is the cost to do the project.
And so like, if they look at all those individual ones, it's very scary. But if we're, we were able to come back and say, actually the sofa we ended up doing was 27 and it's actually under what the line item we had. So we're still within our range. So even though these numbers feel very scary, everything still fit within the overall number that they were presented at first.
[00:57:46] Speaker B: So you, so you are presenting, you do show your clients not room totals, but you are itemizing everything. They, you show them house total. But do they see how much that side table costs? Specifically?
[00:58:01] Speaker A: They see ranges. Yeah, everything's in there. Like the living room, it's like sofa rug, lamps, table drapes, art. And then so. And then we do the same exact process.
I want to talk about this because this might help other people because it, it took me mistake after mistake after mistake to figure this out. And now that I figured it out, proud of it or it's working for us, I should say. But we do the same exact process again with a few months to go for accessories.
So again, I like the house to just come together organically and very authentically. So I like to bring things on approval as we install. I like antiques and art and vintage things and found things.
So a lot of times that's kind of hard to do on plan before you're in the space doing it.
So for years we would just bring all these accessories on approval at the end, and then what would happen is people would be like, I want it all. And then we price it all and they're like, oh my God, I thought this was going to be 20,000, not 120,000, and panic and rightfully so. I mean, that's scary.
So. And then be sad when we had to take things away or it didn't work in the what they had in mind for financially. So now we do a second presentation for what we think the accessories and the art and all those final little touches, you know, like the trash can in the powder room and just the little things. And we present that with a two months to go to the installation, and then we get an approval on that.
And so we are bringing only what fits within that number that they are feel comfortable with spending. And so, I mean, our perfect world is that nothing gets returned. Their perfect world is that they get everything that is brought over and they love it all. So that works really well for us and it saves a lot of time. For on our end, it's time upfront, but save time at the end because we're not guessing or hoping and we're not disappointing vendors returning so much or those kind of things.
[01:00:15] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So just to clarify that that second presentation that's happening like two months out from install, it's again, just sort of budget allowances itemized, but you're not necessarily picking all of those antique pieces. You're just saying we're going to expect it to cost this much for these types of things. Now with your approval, we're going to go ahead and source those, we're to bring them for install, and you're going to get that magical HGTV home reveal moment and you still get to decide if you want them or not. But at least there's not the surprise of why was this $120,000? We thought it was going to be 20.
[01:00:50] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. And sometimes they come to us and are actually like, you know what, we're, we're maxed out. We only Want to spend this or.
So, you know, it varies.
Some people have great stuff to use, which also helps. Some people don't. So that's another part of it, I.
[01:01:07] Speaker B: Think, that's so common, especially if, you know, if it was a full construction project or particularly a remodel, when there's surprises that come up and that budget fluctuates or grows to. Then get to accessories and be like, we don't have another $120,000 that doesn't exist. Do you ever have anyone that you, like, put together this accessories or styling budget at the end and say, this all sounds fabulous. Now we know what to expect. Expect. But we're going to have to revisit this in six months. Because I feel like that is kind of an opportunity that you're creating by presenting that as an option for someone to say, we want all of these things. We just need to pump the brakes for a sec. And I think that to people listening, that could be a great sort of, like, upsell to someone who maybe even wasn't necessarily thinking at all that they were going to get to do the styling for a project, that they could present these budgets so they could circle.
[01:01:56] Speaker A: Back around later a hundred percent. I will note that we talk about this before they sign a contract. We're like, you're gonna. You're gonna get this initial budget, and then we later do an accessory budget, and we. We put it. A chunk of it in the initial budget. So we say, like, it's gonna be, you know, and we'll get to those details later. So people know it's coming. They're not surprised when it comes. Definitely. People wait sometimes. My philosophy is, I want clients for life.
My favorite projects are my second and third projects for a client we've already had or a sibling or a family member or. I mean, they are just easy and fun, and we know each other and we have a rapport. And so those are the. Those are the clients I'm looking for people who. And some people I find are afraid to call you again. And I'm like, please, call me again. Call me for a shelf. Call me for a trash can. Like, call me for new pillowcases. I'm there.
We're invested in these relationships, and so we've created our fee structure to allow for that, so that people are always welcome to call us again for the tiniest thing. And we hope they do.
[01:03:10] Speaker B: I'm talking about that accessories budget that you are ballparking at the very beginning before someone signs universally across the industry. I usually Hear people say that they allot about 20% of the total furnishings budget. Does that seem to align with ballpark, what you guys tell people to expect?
[01:03:27] Speaker C: Okay, perfect.
[01:03:28] Speaker B: Awesome. That's so helpful. Thank you.
[01:03:30] Speaker A: I mean, art is kind of its own animal.
[01:03:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:03:32] Speaker A: So that, that we kind of art is, you know.
[01:03:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm sure that it, it depends on the client. Some clients are like, art is where we are definitely investing. Other clients are like, pick vintage stuff, that's going to be great, or we've got pieces from grandma and you know, that sort of thing. I'd love to circle around and talk about your team before we wrap up and where it is now. Can you walk us through what your company structure looks like now? How many people are on the team and how you are kind of staffing your projects?
[01:04:04] Speaker A: Yes. So it's me as sort of leader and creative director. And then I have two senior designers. One is based in Austin and runs our Austin work and office. And a lot of our out of town projects she handles.
She loves traveling. It's great because we've had projects La Jolla to Nantucket. So we love any opportunity. You know, hopefully we get one across the pond next. So, you know, we love any opportunity to travel. So she does those.
She has an assistant there.
And then in Houston, my senior designer has a project coordinator who works with her on her projects.
We're down one person right now who left earlier this year and I haven't quite replaced them yet. I'm trying to make sure it's the right fit, but I always have somebody in kind of a more junior role who works on all of our past clients who come back with these small things, which honestly, when you add them up, is almost a full. It is a full time job of, you know, the single bat, the single bath remodel, or, you know, we need all new outdoor furniture or there's always something. So right now we're kind of tag teaming, teaming those and it's a little hectic, but I'm still on the hunt for a replacement for that role.
And then I have an assistant and a studio manager who is amazing. And then we have Mia, who we've been referencing, who was my first hire and she is our procurement manager and she does all of our orders and invoicing.
And I have two summer interns and I outsource my social media and I outsource all my bookkeeping. So I consider those women on my team also. Although they're contracted out.
[01:05:57] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. That is so helpful. I'm wondering what you feel like today is your biggest lesson that you're, like, most proud of and how you manage your team now.
[01:06:09] Speaker A: Oh, wow. I'm most proud of the fact that we are just all obsessed with what we do, and we love working together.
I mean, we're like a fam. We're like a sisterhood. We're like a family. I mean, we are all so invested in the success of us as a whole that every single one of us will, you know, go the extra mile when needed. Like, nobody is put out if they have to stay late or if they have to do something on a Sunday, or if, you know, things pop up. And I feel like my previous team, it was. There were a lot of boundaries there where there wasn't as much in personal investment in the success of the project, the success of the team. We all want each other to win.
Everyone's. Everyone wants to hear about each other's projects, which I just love.
So I'm just proud of the fact that we all, like, have so much fun together. When we did Kips Bay, Palm Beach, I mean, I love traveling with these women. It's so fun. I mean, at dinners every night, like, we're having a blast. It is not like, oh, I have to go on a work trip. You know, we're like, let's go. Pack your bags. La, New York, Paris, London. I mean, we've been everywhere together. And so we. We just really have fun. And.
And we. I mean, it's stressful at times. Very stressful at times. So I'm just so proud of the fact that above the stress, above the, you know, problems, we're solving problems every single day. And above all of that is our greater umbrella of just.
We love designing, and we love creating beautiful homes, and we love doing it together.
[01:07:49] Speaker B: Looking back, what do you think was the most difficult mindset shift to get through that burnout?
[01:07:56] Speaker A: Oh, wow. That's a great question. I think I thought I had to do everything myself.
Always.
My name's on the door.
In fact, this is a vulnerable admission. We are reorganizing my office right now.
Our office, our studio.
And right as the movers came in with all the stuff, I was having almost having a panic attack, like, on the verge of really freaking out. And the girls could see. I mean, everyone could see, like, I was having a moment.
And when I took a minute and figured out, like, okay, I need to breathe. I need to get through this, what I realized about myself in that moment was that, like, as all that stuff came in, I Had this kind of old pattern thinking or way of being wash over me that, like, it was my responsibility to re. Put everything back together instead of like, we hired organizers. I have a whole office of people here chipping in.
This is not all on my shoulders, but I had this moment of, this is all me. I have to do this. I own this. This is my name. And I. It made me have a panic attack. I mean, I was like, oh, my gosh. And all of a sudden I was, you know, snapped. Able to snap out of it and remember, no, I can trust everyone here. We all have the same goals in mind. We all are here to support each other.
We're going to do it together. And I was immediately called out in.
[01:09:30] Speaker B: The same vein to a designer listening today who may be feeling burnt out. What's one step they can take right now to help regain control?
[01:09:41] Speaker A: So when I actually worked with a burnout coach, also in addition to a business coach, I've hired everybody to help me get out of this. And the one thing that was so important that I learned through my business burnout coaching, she. The first exercise we did was I had to make a list of every single person or situation that I was in that I was resentful about. And then I had to dissect that to my part to play in it and clean it up. And that was very difficult. Very difficult. Like, for example, the first one on my list at the time, I was upset. My nanny, who had been with me for 10 years was my kids were all in school, so she didn't really need to be at my house full time in the day while they were at school. So she was taking a couple other jobs in the day to, like, do more things.
And I had this resentment. I wanted her in my house every day. I needed her.
At the time, we never knew when school was closing or somebody had to go home for Covid or whatever. So that didn't work for me. I. And.
But. But she wanted something else. And I remember my burnout coach saying to me, like, okay, well, it sounds like you need a new nanny.
And I remember being like, no, I could. I can't. She's been with me for 10 years. I can never have a new nanny. Like, she's the second mother to my children. Absolutely not. And the. My burnout coach was like, nope, it's pretty clear that she wants one thing and you want another thing, and there's a misalignment there. And this is an opportunity for you to listen to your own needs.
And we sadly Parted ways. But we had like a cup, a conscious uncoupling. I mean, we had a very loving, amicable divorce. We're still very close. But at that moment, I was shook. I was like, there's no way this is the problem. And as soon as I solved that, things started to come into place. And so I did that with various situations. But it starts with recognizing what are your resentments and what is why, you know, why is that there and what is not working for you and how can you change that situation to work for you? And identifying a few of those was very, very huge in my burnout recovery.
[01:12:07] Speaker B: One thing I've really heard from you and learned from you in our conversation today is that so many of these moments of discomfort or resentment are often self perpetuated because of your lack of communication and asking for what your needs are, like actually communicating what your needs are. And I think as a business owner, as a mom, as a dad, as a partner, as a, A friend, so often it's. It can be solved so easily with a conversation. But like you said, as a Southern, as a Southern lady, you avoid conflict at all costs. And being able to be comfortable with conflict and understanding that not all conflict has to be ugly. Conflict can just be. Conversation has allowed a lot of freedom for you and I'm sure for myself and other people listening if we put.
[01:13:03] Speaker A: It into practice 100%, 100%. It's setting boundaries. It's. My therapist does this great thing where she does a thumbs up or a thumbs down and she's like, meg. And she'll do it. Show me, like her thumbs up, thumbs down. And she's like, which one? I mean, these answers, you know in your gut immediately when you're faced with these decisions. Do I meet with that new client? Should I say yes to this photo shoot right now?
I mean, just every single day we are faced with a choice or.
And the one thing that we have a cap on is our time and our energy.
So if we are constantly saying yes to everything, the time and energy is gone. And so in order to protect that, we have to be very serious about what are we saying yes to. What is the thumbs up? And 10 times out of 10, we know immediately the answer is, but our, you know, conditioning and our experience and cultural norms and all the other things our people pleasing get in the way of us making the decision that we know is right for us.
And so you're right. It's a practice. I still make mistakes every single day on that. I mean, I took a consult Last week. That was ridiculous. Flags everywhere. What on earth am I doing?
You know, so it's, it's a practice and.
But the thumbs up, thumbs down thing, I re. I try to remember because it's just real quick. Yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, real quick. Without any other data.
But it's easy to talk yourself into.
Oh, I'll just run over there. Oh, I'll just, you know. And all of a sudden you're over scheduled.
[01:14:42] Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, Meg, this has been so, so helpful. And it was, I'm sure, heavy to hear, heavy to listen to, heavy to speak. So thank you for sharing that. But I'd love to end on like a note and know any top secret projects or book deals or furniture collabs or anything else that you have in the works right now that you are comfortable sharing with us so that we can just help continue to celebrate you and follow in your successes.
[01:15:08] Speaker A: Oh, that's so kind. Thank you. Well, hopefully there will be furniture collabs and book deals down the road. There aren't any today to speak of. However, we do have a project that's going to be featured in an international magazine later this year that we are extremely proud of. And so that is thrilling. I mean, thrilling. And I would have never. That's a bucket list thing for me. And it would have never come to fruition without my team and the support of my team and our collaboration of that creation. So I'm immensely proud. And stay tuned to my Instagram this fall because we'll be seeing spamming it out.
[01:15:49] Speaker B: I can't wait here. It might even be out when this episode actually drops. I am curious. I meant to ask this earlier, so I'm going to sneak one more in there. Do you hire a publicist or do you guys do your own pr? Okay, great. That was crucial because you have been published so much, even pre burnout when it was just you running the show. So I was wondering if that was something you had invested in or if you were grassrooting that as well, even from the beginning.
[01:16:15] Speaker A: Well, I will say I've gone through a few different publicists about three.
And that is another alignment, important alignment that I wasn't necessarily really digging deep into when I was using various publicists in the past and a mentor to me, Pam Pierce with Milieu magazine, said to me one day, she said, meg, you need to hire Jenny Bradley. She's the right person for you.
And I called Jenny that afternoon and she couldn't have been more right. Just Jenny's energy and way of being and is so in alignment with me and our team. And it was, it's been the perfect fit. And so I think that is something also. I mean, designers out there should interview publicists and go through their process of that like they would a client, you know, investigation.
[01:17:13] Speaker B: Well, thank you so much for that last little tidbit. Cause I completely agree and I'm glad to know just how you have been able to secure such amazing covers and press features internationally, nationally, everything. So Meg, truly thank you so much for this conversation. It was refreshing to hear. I. It was supporting to hear and I'm just so, so glad that you got through your burnout because you're just still creating the most gorgeous spaces out there.
[01:17:42] Speaker A: Oh, thank you. Honestly, it brings me a lot of joy to be able to share my story and hopefully to help others.
I think there's nothing to be ashamed of. This is a really tough time.
It's hard to be a working mom. It's hard to run a small business. The economic climates in political climates constantly uneasy. And so I and feel anyone can feel free to reach out to me. I'm happy to share more.
Anything I can do to help our community, I'm more than willing to. I think we have to support each other. So thank you.
[01:18:18] Speaker B: Thank you so much, Megan. We will chat soon. Okay.
[01:18:24] Speaker C: For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive deck downloads, examples and more. Don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes or at patreon.com forward/the interior collective. Thank you so so much for tuning in to this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. A big, huge thank you to our production team at IDCO Studio. And Quinn made your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible.
Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior A podcast for the business of beautiful living.
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