[00:00:11] Speaker A: Hi. On today's episode of the Interior Collective, we are welcoming Julia Buchesi, a leading SEO and Pinterest consultant. With over seven years of experience under her belt, Julia has worked as an SEO professor at Drexel University, sharing her SEO expertise with the next generation of digital marketers. Throughout her career, Julia has helped countless clients boost their website traffic and achieve that coveted number one spot for their keywords on Google. Having made the leap from corporate to pursue her own passion, Julia understands the challenges and triumphs that come with growing a business. On today's episode, we're going to dive deep into the powerful combination of SEO and Pinterest for interior designers. Julia will share her top strategies for leveraging these platforms to elevate your brand's visibility, attract clients, and ultimately grow your business further. We'll discuss where your web designer's work ends and where Julia's work begins.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: We are so excited to invite you to dive deeper into the Interior Collective. Podcast episodes now on Patreon unlock access to in depth analysis, helpful downloads and worksheets created with each podcast episode. Subscribers gain behind the scenes access to additional resources like examples and screenshots of guests, spreadsheets, construction documents, and so much more. Your subscription also gets you immediate access to our private community of interior designers and our team of industry experts ready to answer your questions. Subscribe
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[00:01:47] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the show. Julia, I'm so excited to have you as a special special guest on the Interior Collective. I was telling you before we started recording that I'm definitely nerding out on this episode because it's kind of the section of what ID Coast Studio and what Quinn made does that we don't do. And we have so many clients who come to us looking for help with SEO and are wanting to either manage it themselves or outsource it. And I'm so excited that you are here to explain every step of the way, from simple terms to the more complexities that are involved with it. So let's go ahead and dig in at the beginning in the most simple of terms for people like myself, what is SEO and why does it even matter for interior designers whose businesses are often made up of referrals or Instagram leads?
[00:02:40] Speaker C: So SEO stands for Search Engine Optimization. It applies to all searches, so Bing, go, duck. But also obviously applies to Google. So Google is kind of the main search engine that people use in The US A lot of other countries actually use Bing primarily, which is interesting. But in the US it's mostly Google. Um, and it's basically the practice of helping Google understand what your site is about in order to rank for the keywords that you want to be ranking for. So that means, like, if you were posting a bunch of recipes on your website, but you're trying to rank for interior designer terms, you're not giving Google the right information to know that you want to be ranking for interior interior designer.
So kind of I will probably get into a lot of the different things that make up, you know, how a Google understands your website, but that's kind of basically what it is in a nutshell. And then why it matters is because, you know, I mean, think about how you use Google. Like, when you go to Google, you are likely searching to, you know, get an answer to a question or find someone to hire or find a product or something like that. So when people are kind of in that hiring mindset or kind of like even in the early stages of getting information before they make a hire, they are going to Google to search for like interior designer near me. Or if you have any specialties like a, you know, commercial interior design or something like that, they're much more likely to go to Google to search for those things when they're, you know, ready to hire, rather than like, if you have 10,000 followers on Instagram, that's great. But are all 10,000 of those people ever going to hire you? They might just, you know, be following you because you post really great projects and really pretty pictures and they like looking at it. But they might not even be in your local area. They might be, you know, not even, like within your price range. And you're even. They might have much lower budgets. It might be more DIYers. So Google is kind of a great place where people will go when they're ready to spend money and kind of like they're gathering that information to make a hire.
[00:04:41] Speaker A: I think that is such an important differentiator because we do a lot of content creation for Instagram for our clients. We know and have heard how many people book their clients through Instagram, and I really believe in that. But I'm always telling our clients it's a long sell and growing your community on Instagram, that person might not be ready to hire you for three to five years, if ever. And I really like that you pointed out if someone's gotten as far as Googling to find someone to hire, they are much closer to making that purchase or hiring that service. I know that we're going to get into Pinterest and I am obsessed with Pinterest. I talk about Pinterest all the time on the show. Do you consider in the SEO realm, Pinterest a search engine, or is Pinterest kind of in its own world?
[00:05:31] Speaker C: Yeah, Pinterest is interesting because it is a search engine at its core. So, like, people go to Pinterest to search, you know, for things. It's a visual search engine. And then it does have some of those, like, social media components where you can have, like, followers, people can comment on your pins. I mean, it doesn't happen very often that people do, but they can. You can, like, react to people's video pins and things like that. So it kind of is, I would say, mostly a search engine, but it definitely does kind of have the social media components to it as well.
[00:06:04] Speaker A: How do search engines, on a fundamental basis, how do search engines determine which websites are ranking higher in search results? Let's say you've got five websites. They're all using specific keywords. They've all done their homework. How is one getting rewarded ranked higher than another?
[00:06:23] Speaker C: Yeah, so There are over 200 different ranking metrics that Google looks at. We're not going to go into all 200 because that would take all day and no one wants to listen to that. But there are kind of some main things that I recommend that you can work on. Some things, like one thing that Google looks at is the how long the website has been live. So a website that has been live for 10 years versus one that just, you know, launched yesterday, they're likely going to rank the one that's been, you know, live for 10 years higher because it's kind of built that trust with Google. So that's not something you can really, like, help if you just started your business. But things like, you know, the keywords you're targeting, where you're incorporating the keywords within your website. Copy and headings, title tags and meta descriptions, how much copy you have on your website. So like a website that just has two sentences on a homepage versus one that has, like several paragraphs. The more information you're able to give Google, the more it's going to help your rankings. Things like the site speed and the user experience of the website. Because the longer people stay on your website, the more pages they're visiting. Those are signals to Google that people like this website. They are interested in staying on it, rather than like, if your site is crazy slow or again, you just have the two sentences on your homepage. People might just visit your website for like 5 seconds and then leave. Which signals to Google that people aren't interested in this website. They don't find it valuable. So those are kind of like some main things.
Again, there are over 200. So there are lots of different things that go into this, but those are kind of things that I recommend focusing on because again, you can't really help how long your website has been live. But you can do things like incorporate keywords within your website copy, have really solidified website copy, have blog posts, which I'm sure we're going to get into.
Things like that can all help your rankings.
[00:08:14] Speaker A: Okay, Julia, you're going to have to bear with me because I already have so many follow up questions and we're on like question number three. First thing, the one thing that really stood out to me that you just said was having a reasonable amount of copy on your homepage. And I think it's very in vogue, very much in style for interior designers, especially as they're looking to get to that like, editorial level, that their homepage is like just a landing page with a pretty slideshow and there's no information on it. Talk me out of this trend and why that's not the best way to approach it.
[00:08:48] Speaker C: Mm. I mean, I would say that can work for some websites who maybe have been on Google for like 10 years now. But yeah, if you are trying to rank higher, that's not going to serve you because, yeah, the more information you're able to give Google, the more often you're able to like incorporate your keywords within your website copy, the more it's going to signal to Google like, hey, this website should be ranking for these words. So if you just have photos on your website, you're not giving Google that information. And then also when people visit your website, you want to give them information. You want to be able to answer questions to get them interested in hiring you. So if you just have beautiful photos, that's, you know, great. That's, you know, kind of like one piece of getting people interested in hiring you because obviously you're showing that you can, you know, do a great job, but you're not giving any information on like your process, the types of clients that you work with, how they can work with you, how they should be able to book your services, how they should schedule a call, you know, information about you to like be able to create that personal connection as well. That's really important. You're kind of Missing all of those pieces. If you don't have any copy on your homepage, definitely incorporating, I mean, adding photos is great, but definitely adding the information as well is going to be very important.
[00:10:01] Speaker A: I know, to people listening because I've had clients suggest it to us. Are there hacks? Can you have blocks of text hidden behind photos on your website? Are there, are there ways that you can still have that aesthetic that's super minimal and beautiful and really just focusing on your portfolio, but having that SEO benefit or do you have to suck it up and have those big old paragraphs?
[00:10:25] Speaker C: Yeah. So I would say if someone is teaching you hacks on how to rank on Google, they may work in the short term, if they work at all, but it's likely going to hurt your site in the long run. And you know, you could get penalized and never be able to be seen on Google ever again, worst case scenario. So you do want to make sure you're not hiding things like this used like 15 years ago, this was a practice where people would just write out their keyword a hundred times and change it to white text so you couldn't see it. Oh, sorry, I'm coughing more than I thought I would be. That is definitely an outdated practice. Google has wised up. They are no longer, you know, ranking websites that are doing these, what's called like black hat SEO tactics. So you don't want to be hiding information, you don't want to be trying to gain the system because it can definitely hurt your site in the long run. And one outdated practice that I still see recommended, especially in the interior design world or even like any local SEO or local business world, I should say, is having like, you know, multiple location pages that all say the same thing and you're just changing the location. I just did an SEO audit with the interior designer last week where they had 26 of the same exact page. They just changed the location. And I can see in like Google Search console, none of those pages are even being indexed by Google. Google's not even looking at them. So they're not helping her site because Google can see that it's the same exact copy as this other page. So, like, what's the point of trying to rank that page? So making sure you're not trying to game the system, you're not having duplicate content on your site and trying to do all these tactics, that's not going to help your site in the long run.
[00:12:08] Speaker A: Okay, amazing. One last follow up question on that before we move into talking about keyword research. You Mentioned new websites aren't going to rank as high as a site that's been on Google for 10 years. For example, for. Can you explain what exactly counts as a new website? Obviously, if we're designing websites for a client or they use one of our templates and they move to a new platform and it launches and it has to get recrawled, if you will, by Google. But it's the same domain name they've always had. Just clarify what counts as a new web website to Google.
[00:12:44] Speaker C: Yeah, so like a brand new website would be the new domain name. So like, if you just launch your website with, you know, this domain that you just bought, that's brand new to Google. Whereas, yeah, if you switch website platforms, you've kind of already built that trust with Google with your domain, you've just kind of like moved locations. So Google kind of has to recrawl everything. But you have already established that trust with Google.
[00:13:08] Speaker A: Got it. Super important clarification. Thank you. Okay, so I'd love to dig into keyword research. What are some effective strategies for conducting that keyword research in the interior design niche? You mentioned making sure you have all these keywords, and I'm like, yeah, Austin interior designer, that's my keyword. How do we go deeper? What does it really mean to do that research and how do you do it?
[00:13:33] Speaker C: Yeah, so you can get started just on Google itself if you aren't ready to dive into keyword research tools. So basically you can just start searching things in Google. So, Austin interior designer, see what kind of pops up, see what websites are ranking well for that and kind of see, I mean, that's kind of easy with something like interior designer. Google knows what that means. But things like, I've seen this kind of like with home organizers. The term office organizer, when you search it in Google actually brings up a lot of products. So things that will help you organize your office, like on your desk rather than a person who organizes offices. So things like that, you want to make sure that the search intent matches what you're trying to rank for.
Again, in tier designer, that's pretty straightforward. But you kind of, you know, want to make sure that you're checking some, some other types of keywords that may be kind of different to Google. So you can get started just on Google by searching these terms. If you want to kind of get into keyword research, there are definitely there. I don't even know how many tools there are.
Google has one that's free called Google Keyword Planner. You can also kind of go through the process of setting up Google Ads and then not pay for the ad to get keyword information.
There's ubersuggest is like a one that has like some free searches and then there are lots of paid ones like Moz Key Search A Ahrefs if you kind of like want to really get into like a big content strategy or something like that. So basically when you are using these keyword research tools, you're looking for things like the monthly search volume, so like how many people are searching this particular keyword each month and then also the competition score. So how competitive it is if you're even able to rank for that keyword. Because if it's something that's crazy competitive, then like it might not be worth targeting that keyword because you're going to have a much harder time ranking for it. So kind of like looking at all of this data to see if it's something that people are searching for. Because I've seen sometimes people get so specific with their keywords that it's something that no one is actually searching for. So what's the point of targeting that? And then also keywords that are just too competitive. So like if you're just trying to target the keyword interior designer, that is way too competitive, that's way too general, you're never going to rank for just interior designer. So kind of like looking at that data to make sure it's something you can rank for and that a good number of people are searching for it.
[00:16:03] Speaker A: I think something to keep in mind also really depends on your market because if you're in New York and you're trying to rank for New York interior designer, like there is that's a much more competitive ranking than if you're in Georgetown, Texas. And so definitely be thinking about how you're associating the location with it and if you want to target that exact breakdown of keywords or if you're going to start to explore some of the alternative solutions to to get someone to find you there. Okay, can you talk to us about what the use of long tail keywords are and how an interior designer would use them on their website?
[00:16:41] Speaker C: Yeah, so long tail keywords are basically just something that's more than one word.
So like designer would just be a short tail keyword. But like Austin interior designer, interior designer for families, interior designer, luxury interior designer, things like that. Those are long tail keywords. So those help you get more specific on the type of work that you do. The type of people that you work with typically have a much Easier chance of ranking for those because those are more specific.
[00:17:11] Speaker A: Have you worked with your clients or suggested to your clients or just seen it work at all to get a suggested list of keywords from even a more generic platform? Just like using AI? Like for instance, if someone's already using ChatGPT, have you had people have any success pulling examples, lists and strategies from a tool like that? Or is it really more nuanced than what that's able to provide?
[00:17:40] Speaker C: Yeah, so I would say AI tools are good for ideas, kind of getting you started. They don't have the most up to date information, so they're not going to be able to give you information on like the monthly searches or you know, how competitive it is or even what websites are ranking for those keywords. So I would use AI to get ideas for like types of phrases that people are searching for or even just like blog posts ideas. Take that information and then like plug it into keyword research tools to get that data. So like if you've nowhere, no idea where to get started, AI is a great place to get started, get ideas, get, you know, topics for blog posts, but then definitely kind of using keyword research tools or other types of tools to get the data that's actually going to help you.
[00:18:27] Speaker A: Great. So here at Adeco Studio, we include basic SEO setup with all of our custom websites and our website templates. When someone's added the implementation service so we get their site set up for them. And many, many, if not most website providers have some sort of integrated SEO setup. Like they'll walk you through the basics of getting set up on Google. However, I know that that initial setup is only a very, very small part of the whole SEO picture.
Do you think designers need ongoing SEO support for their websites? And if so, is it like a quarterly thing? Is it a monthly investment? Is it like, hey, we can do a big audit with you once a year to make sure things are working. What's a really healthy, reasonable, attainable goal for someone looking to start focusing on their SEO?
[00:19:23] Speaker C: Yeah, so definitely setting up those foundations is, you know, the first place to start and really beneficial. But you don't want to just like launch your website and then just lead it. So you do want to have some sort of ongoing strategy with like, you know, maybe writing blog posts each month, publishing posts or photos to Google Business Profile.
It's not really related to SEO, but definitely staying active on social media because the more traffic you're able to drive back to your site again, that signals to Google that people are finding your site valuable. You do want to make sure you're being active on social media or with your email list or, you know, wherever else you're able to drive traffic back to your site and then doing things like yet checking your data in Google Analytics and Google Search Console, also Google Business Profile, if you have that set up, you do want to make sure that you're tracking things to make sure you're progressing where you want to be going. And then yeah, you can definitely do like quarterly or yearly audits to kind of see where your site is and where you know, things can be improved. So it kind of varies depending on like what your goals are, you know, how active you are on your website, if you love blogging or if you hate it and never want to write another word, which I know a lot of people are like that. So kind of depending on, you know, your capabilities, if you're able to kind of like maintain things, that's awesome. If you do want additional, you know, ongoing help because you don't want to have to keep up with these things, you know, people like me can definitely help with things like that.
[00:20:51] Speaker B: It only takes one Red flag client to remind us how important an ironclad contract can be as an interior designer. And that's why we've teamed up with attorney Alice Sawaki, who specializes in working with creatives to develop a comprehensive, easy to use service agreement specifically for in person full service interior design projects. Our Interior Design Surface agreement covers every detail you might need from scope of work and payment terms to client conduct and intellectual property. It even includes guidance for working with third party contractors, managing procurement, handling damages and more. With this contract, you can ensure that both you and your clients are clear of expectations, costs and responsibilities, helping you avoid misunderstandings and protecting your work. Once you purchase, you receive a fully editable document in both Google Docs and Microsoft Word with clear highlighted prompts to customize each section to fit your particular project or business model. And for those of you offering virtual design services, we also have a virtual design service agreement to keep you protected in a similar way specific to those distance design projects. As a quick note, while these contracts were developed with legal guidance, they're intended as framework and are best reviewed by a lawyer in your state. You can find the link to purchase in the Show Notes or visit IDCO Studio directly. And don't forget, you can always use code podcast15 for 15% off sitewide.
[00:22:23] Speaker A: So let's talk about people like you because I mean we get pitches 10 times a day from these SEO experts who Some of our clients have fallen essentially victim to because they've been promised, oh, we're going to do 12 blog posts for you a week, and it's going to be so SEO rich. And they've done all of those different neighborhood location pages on their website, and they've got like a million different landing pages. And we're just a very, very much aesthetically driven studio ourselves in an aesthetically driven industry. And so I hate to watch that happen to people. So many of our clients have been coach or advised on. You know, this is something we need to be throwing $3,000 a month at, and we're going to be working on this every single day. I was so excited when you reached out to us to come on the show because, like, I knew that that was not the technique that you would advise for every client, especially in different industries. So talk to us about in your experience with working with interior designers, like, what is a healthy amount of time or budget that someone should really be putting towards this and what should they not be getting falsely sold on?
[00:23:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I also get those emails. My favorite is when they're like, I found your website on Google, but you're not ranking anywhere. I'm like, well, how did you find my website on Google? So don't never, never trust those types of companies. Yeah, I definitely get a lot of clients who come to me after they have been like, you know, scammed out of money by companies. Sometimes they'll say they're going to do all of these things and then they don't do anything to the website. So definitely, you know, check things as, I mean, as much as you can. It's always hard. People can always lie, obviously, but try to get like, information from them on examples of blog posts that they've written. If that's something they're going to do. Check for like testimonials if they have those. You can check to see if they have any examples of client results or, you know, any data that they have. So try to verify as much as you can if you know you are going to go with like, I typically see it with like larger agencies, typically kind of like more independent or solopreneur SEO people are, I would say, more, more trustworthy.
Again, there are definitely people out there who are very shady, but typically when clients come to me after they've been scammed, it's by these, like, large or agencies who have all these promises and then they don't do anything. Also read your contract before you sign anything. I. This didn't happen to One of my clients, but a friend of mine, her client had been working with this agency, and they wrote a lot of blog posts and website copy for her, and it was pretty good, but she just was ready to kind of like, move on and, you know, work with someone else. But in her contract, they claim that they owned everything that they wrote for her, so they were going to remove it all from her website. So they're going to remove all of these blog posts, all of this website copy. So check things in the contract like that. Also make sure they have a contract, because if they promise all these things, they don't have a contract to say what happens if they don't do it and that you pay them. You definitely want to have some legal things in place. So basically just verify things. In terms of pricing, it can really vary depending on, like, how much work they're doing, maybe how competitive your niche is. If they're like, you know, they are promising that they're going to get you to the number one spot and you are in New York City, that's going to cost a lot of money rather than your. If you are in a smaller town. So I would say typically with like, a smaller agency or, you know, one person for like, ongoing, I would imagine like $1,000 or less per month if you do have a lot of that, you know, like, you know, some of my packages are a couple thousand dollars for like, just the setup, the foundations, fixing a bunch of problems that the site has. So it could be, you know, maybe more initially to fix a bunch of things, and then ongoing will be, you know, less just because everything's fixed. So it's kind of like the maintenance and running blog posts and things like that. Another thing I would recommend is just asking what they're going to do, because a lot of times companies are like, yeah, we can do your SEO and that's it. They don't say, like, what they're going to do. So making sure you're understanding that they're not going to, you know, write 26 duplicate pages on your website or, you know, do kind of the shady SEO practices. So just verify as much as you can. Ask if you are really unsure if you know someone who has worked with a good SEO person, you know, you can always ask for referrals, but just try to verify as much as you can.
[00:27:06] Speaker A: Okay. So that's one of the reasons why I'm so grateful to have you here today because, sure, you're hiring an SEO agency or X expert, and they say, we're going to handle your SEO. And we just don't all have even kind of that foundational knowledge to be able to ask those questions or to when we get the answer we're like, is this the right thing? So I want to go into more specific questions so that everybody can be a little bit more prepared when they are getting ready to work with someone.
What are the essential elements of on page SEO for interior design websites? So I know you talked about the homepage. Let's just talk about the pages of your website in general. Like what are the elements that you want to make sure either your web designer setting up or when you've moved over to an SEO person that we want to make sure are covered and so you can ask questions and surprise them when you know what you're talking about.
[00:27:55] Speaker C: Yeah, so there is what's called on page SEO like you said and then off page SEO. So basically on page SEO is everything that is done on your website. Off page SEO can sometimes people say off page SEO and they're talking about like social media. So like again, driving that traffic to your website, it can be what's called link building or like you know, kind of getting your website linked from another website. So anything that's kind of done away from your website is off page SEO. So in terms of on page SEO that can be doing things like, you know, incorporating the keywords within your website, copy, structuring headings, writing title tags, meta descriptions, adding photos, adding image alt text to photos. Kind of like any SEO foundations on your website would be on page SEO. And then in terms of like things that you want your website designer to set up, typically I recommend at least having a home, about services and contact page. You can definitely have obviously portfolio page, multiple portfolio pages, multiple services pages. But at its core that's what I recommend. Starting with Google does have site readers that will kind of check sites. And I'm sure this is probably going to increase as more like AI spammy websites are popping up to kind of verify that there, you know, is a human behind the website. It's not just some AI generated spam site. So they are looking for things like about and contact pages and ways to be able to contact you. So like having a contact form or having an email address listed and things like that to kind of like verify that this is a real legit website. And then so working with website designer, obviously you want to make sure things are set up for a good user experience, like having a clear menu which most of the time you know, website designers are doing a great Job at having a footer, making sure like, images aren't so massive that they're taking up the entire screen or, you know, just like things that make it a lot harder to navigate a website or, or yeah, having a bunch of script text that's really small that people can't actually read.
So basically making sure everything is easy to navigate on a site. It's easy to read, it's easy to get the information. And then if you are working with a copywriter, making sure they are, you know, doing things like having headings, having things, you know, structured correctly for your website copy there for those listening.
[00:30:27] Speaker A: If having all of those different structures set up feels overwhelming, like I said, I know a lot of website platforms do it. I'll speak specifically to the WIX platform, which is what our templates are on. And then if we do custom builds for you, it'll be on whatever platform you want. But WIX does a really good job of auditing your site as you're getting ready to publish. And we'll tell you exactly which images still needed those alt tags, exactly which headers needed to be marked as a header, et cetera. And it literally is just like this green, yellow, red button. And it will, it's actually recently been updated and you just hit, yes, make that update and it automatically updates it for you. So it's actually gotten really swift for again, when you're ready to do just like that baseline, initial SEO setup. Obviously that's different than running additional articles all the time and that sort of thing and keeping your website up to date. But there are tools built into your website platform that will make this a bit easier and less overwhelming and you won't have to have so much knowledge to get started on your own. Let's talk portfolio pages specifically and how we can be maximizing our SEO on those because they are obviously image heavy. They are obviously, by the time someone's gotten to our portfolio, we feel like we already have them on the hook, if you will. They're already interested in our aesthetic. How can we better optimize those pages to make sure that it's coming up in search results and that it is working towards the overall SEO health of our entire site, not just like that particular project.
[00:32:02] Speaker C: Yeah. So portfolio pages are definitely harder to rank on Google because, yeah, typically they are just images. So I would focus on definitely having some text on that page just to at least give Google some information on, you know, what the page is about. But I would probably focus on using your portfolio portfolio page to convert people who land there to, you know, scheduling a call for you or whatever the next step you want them to take is. So making sure that you, you know, have like a button to schedule a call with you or to visit your pricing page, you know, wherever you want to lead them next. So that way they're not just looking at your portfolio page and then le they have some direction once they kind of look at your images. I would definitely play around with like how many images that you have on a, on a page, how large they are. Just because a lot of times people don't want to like sit there and wait for the next giant image to load in order to see it. They might again leave quickly, which you don't want them to do.
So kind of play around with like having smaller images where they can like click on it to expand to see larger ones. Maybe having a slideshow rather than like just a page full of a bunch of images. So kind of like play around to see what works best and you can track in like Google Analytics to see how long people are staying on the this page. So that way you can make sure that they aren't just leaning after, you know, two seconds.
[00:33:32] Speaker A: Perfect. Thank you so much, Julia. Okay, so let's talk content strategy and in this, I mean or talking about both those on site SEO tactics. So blog posts or articles, whatever you want to call them as blog, as blogs seem to be dying, we'll call them articles, journal entries and then also even how that ties into off page SEO. So their social media, et cetera, what types of content, blogs, videos, images are most effective for SEO in the design industry in your experience?
[00:34:09] Speaker C: I would say specifically for SEO, blog posts perform the best because again it's text, it's what Google is able to read, what they're able to understand.
For videos, I think it would, it's probably the easiest to get videos to rank and get more views on like more DIY videos. So if that is your target audience, I would say, you know, videos are probably a really good strategy. Um, if you aren't trying to attract diyers, I probably would stick with like blog posts, definitely images because like if people are searching for images in Google images on like you know, types of style that they want to see and you're able to have your images rank there, that's a good way of driving traffic. But I mean blog posts are kind of the, the king for content for SEO.
So you I. If you are going to try out, you know, focusing a lot on like your images for your post folia page and for, you know, videos and things like that, I wouldn't completely neglect your blog posts. I would still try to, you know, blog once a month or once every other month or something.
[00:35:12] Speaker A: One thing that we do with our content clients, because you can work with our team to create these blog posts for you, is that if, if you're not looking to attract those DIYers and you're not looking to attract, you're looking to attract someone who wants full service, gonna write you a half a million dollar check ready to go. One option we found that proves to be really successful is treating a blog post more like a case study. And so you'll take images from your portfolio that maybe on your portfolio page you had 12 total images and then you have, you know, another 25 detail shots that your photographer took that you love and really tell the story of the space, but that stand on their own aren't as strong. Creating a case study blog post that breaks down the problems you solved with this project, the challenges you came up against, the solutions you provided, and really talking about the project to sell your service as a holistic service has really, really helped. And it feels more elevated than a traditional blog post. So if you kind of get in the mindset of I'm going to write this blog post because that is technically what it is, but I'm going to present it as a case study that can help you get over the hump of, I just don't feel like blogging is on brand for me. I'm not looking to be an influencer. So that's one tactic we've, we've taken to really help convert those higher end clients.
[00:36:36] Speaker C: Yeah, blog posts. I mean, there are so many different things that you can try out. But yeah, definitely. Even if you do write a more informational blog post, having photos of your work and leading them, you know, at the end to like check out your services or something like that is definitely beneficial because yeah, you don't want to just have them read your blog post and then just leave.
[00:36:57] Speaker A: So you just mentioned a blog post once a month or even every other month. Is that a reasonable cadence? Like that feels doable? Like we can, we can handle that. Or does it need to be three a week? Like it feels like we're supposed to be doing it every day.
[00:37:13] Speaker C: Yeah, you don't need to do it every day. I, I always tell people, start with like once a month, once every other month. Once you kind of do that consistently, you can definitely add on more blog posts. But if I tell you to blog once a week, you might do it for a month and then never blog ever again.
So I don't want to scare anyone off. I mean, you don't even have to blog once a week if you don't want to, but definitely around like, once a month is a good place to start. You can add on more as you're able to, or if you want to kind of blog more, like more case studies or more, I guess, DIY posts or something like that for fun. Have at least one blog post a month that is more strategic for your business, for ranking on Google, things like that. So that way you know, you aren't just blogging for the sake of blogging or just for fun, but you do have some strategy behind it as well.
[00:38:04] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Is there a threshold number of, like, how many blog posts a site should have at the time of launch? Whether that's from a redesign or this is the first time they're launching their domain? Is it like 12? Feels like a good amount of blog post pages. Or you could start with just three. What, what's kind of a sweet spot?
[00:38:26] Speaker C: Yeah, I would say however many you're able to do, I would probably do maybe around five or so. If that's. If that's all you're able to do, if you're able to launch with a few more, that's great. But I just know when people announce that they have launched a website or relaunched a website, they are going to get a lot of visits from, like, social media. So you do want to be able to have some content for them to look at and, you know, you know, get some more information from you. So if you just launch with no blog posts, then, you know, people might go to your blog page, not see anything, and then, you know, not really go back to your website.
[00:39:01] Speaker A: Absolutely. Can we talk about mobile optimization a little bit and why it's so important for interior designers, especially when so many referrals or client leads are coming from social media. But more significantly, mobile optimization definitely affects their SEO score and so break that down for us.
[00:39:23] Speaker C: Yeah, so, I mean, if people are coming from Instagram, they're likely on their phones because, I mean, who's scrolling Instagram on their desktop? Um, but yeah, mobile optimization is really important because even if they're not coming from Instagram, a lot more Google searches are happening on phones. So you do want to make sure that you, you know, give someone a great user experience when they're on their phone. So I see this a lot of times with like, people who are interior designers or you know, have some other like visual business, like photographer. They have very large images at the top of the homepage, which might work well on desktop, but then on mobile it takes up so much space and it takes way longer for it to load. So you do want to make sure you have some like text at least before an image or before a slideshow of images or whatever you have. Because you might lose someone very quickly if they have to sit there on their phone. Especially because a lot of times you might not have the best service or you know, be out and about and you just want to look at something very quickly.
So having a fast mobile speed can really be beneficial. You do also want to make sure that the mobile site is easy to navigate. So having a menu at the top, like that little hamburger menu, that works fine. But then also having a menu in the footer because if someone gets to the bottom of the page, you don't want to have to make them scroll all the way back up to the top of the page to be able to click on the menu. So having some menu options in the footer is a great way to, you know, be able to help them navigate to next page that they want to go to quickly.
[00:40:57] Speaker A: Awesome. Okay, before we move on to the coveted topic of Pinterest, I want to touch on local SEO. Because while the world since COVID has really changed and more and more designers are able to work with people around the country and work from more of a distance design practice, obviously local projects are in many ways preferred. So when it comes to local SEO, how can designers really optimize, for instance, their Google My business profile for local searches. And how can someone be just utilizing SEO to gain more of a presence locally? I know we touched on it earlier but like if you had three tips of like, this is how you can start to rank in your city, region, whatever that might be. How do you do it?
[00:41:42] Speaker C: Yeah, so Google Business Profile, I will say they have, they've gotten a lot more strict in the last like year or so. So people are having a harder time getting verified if you're new to Google Business Profile. So just wanted to give you a heads up in case you haven't started your Google Business Profile yet. But it is obviously great for local searches because Google is going to show people the closest business to them wherever they're located at that moment, you know, on Google Maps or even just like on the little information search results on Google Maps as well. So it's really helpful for, you know, reaching people in your Local area. Even if they just search interior designer near me, but they're in your, you know, near your business or near your studio or something like that. It's a great way for your business to be able to, to rank that way. So for Google Business Profile, make sure you have your description filled out. Typically Google will kind of like cut it off after like a sentence or two and then you have to like click to view more. So have the most information or most important information in those first two sentences. So that, that way you're not just like talking about yourself or like, you know, I, I saw one recently where it was like a quote that was, you know, like about designing something beautiful or something like that. Put the most important information first and then have that kind of like more personal things or you know, other things that you want to add further down in the description. Reviews are super helpful for getting your profile to rank higher. Reply to reviews that can also show Google that you're active on your profile. Adding things like your. This is going to be more than three tips. Sorry, give.
[00:43:25] Speaker A: We're, we're taking them all.
[00:43:26] Speaker C: Yeah, making sure you have your services filled out. Like even just like two or three services. You don't need to go crazy and add like you know, a hundred. But just having a couple services can be, you know, indicate to Google what, what your business has to offer when people are searching for different keywords. Because people might search interior designer near me, but they might also be searching for like kitchen designer near me. So if you have kitchen designer as one of your services, you're much more likely to rank for those types of searches and then for kind of like ongoing things. I would recommend adding like a couple new photos and update maybe two a month to Google Business Profile to kind of again show Google that you're active on your profile. But then you're also, you know, giving potential clients the most up to date information, the most up to date photos that you have. Because if you have photos from three years ago, they're not, you know, you might be designing in completely different styles or maybe you're no longer doing kitchens or something like that. So you want to have the most up to date information both for Google and the then also for people who are seeing your profile.
[00:44:31] Speaker A: Fantastic. Okay, we've got to clean that up on it.
[00:44:35] Speaker C: Also, I think I neglected to talk about the website, but making sure you list your location on the website or you know, the area that you serve, you don't need to go and list like 50 cities that you serve. If you just want to list like counties or like say you know, the Philadelphia area or something like that. That is, is, you know, helpful both for Google but also for potential clients to know that you can, you know, work in your, work in their area and have your location near the top of the page. You don't want to have to make someone hunt to see if you're located near them because again they might lose interest and then leave your site quickly because I don't think I mentioned this. But you're probably not the only website that they are visiting if they are searching to hire an interior designer.
So you want to make sure you're capturing their attention, giving them the information that they want so they don't have to just leave your site and then go look at someone else's website that does have that information they're looking for.
[00:45:30] Speaker A: How important is it to have your actual physical business address listed out on your website when maybe you're by appointment only or you do have a studio, but it's not like you just take walk ins.
[00:45:43] Speaker C: I don't think you need to have your address listed unless you do have a studio that is maybe open like nine to five every day. Like if you have, I don't know, a secretary and a team or you know, something like that. But I, I see websites that have their addresses listed and this, unless it's like a restaurant that I'm gonna physically go to, I do not really look at the address or like compare to see how far it is for me. So if you don't want to have your address listed, you don't have to.
[00:46:13] Speaker A: Perfect. Love that answer.
Okay, let's talk Pinterest. I know you are a Pinterest girly. I know that you offer Pinterest services to your clients. Before I get into my questions, give us a rundown of what exactly your service offerings are within Pinterest.
[00:46:30] Speaker C: Yeah, so I have a couple different main services for Pinterest. So the main one that people usually go with is Pinterest management where you don't have to do anything on Pinterest I create all the PIMs. I optimize your profile, optimize and create boards, you know, interact with other Pinners, create pin templates. You don't have to touch anything on Pinterest. Just create content on your site and get photos taken. Like that's all you gotta do. And then another one is kind of like a mix of a DIY and done for you where I go in, set everything up for you or clean everything up for you, if you have had Pinterest for a while and create pin templates for you, create some video pins, kind of get everything structured, do the keyword research and then at the end of a month pass everything over to you, give you the pin templates, the keywords, and then do a training session with you to show you how you can manage your account and give you some, you know, strategies that, you know, you can use for your account going forward. So if you want to get started on Pinterest, but just the actual getting started part is overwhelming, that's a good option. And then I also do like one on one training sessions or you know, even just like smaller, like just Pinterest keywords if you like don't really know how to get started with Pinterest keyword research and just want the keywords handed to you. You know, I do smaller projects like that as well.
[00:47:51] Speaker A: Amazing. Okay, so I personally have just found so much success on Pinterest and it's just such a happy platform. Nobody leaves being comments. There's there, it's, it's just positivity and pretty images. Which brings me to my first question about Pinterest. We have seen quite a few designers who understandably don't want their work so easily shared on Pinterest. And so my question to you is, should designers include the option when you hover the social share buttons on their portfolio images on their website? Why or why not?
[00:48:28] Speaker C: I think, yeah, I think it's kind of a personal. If you want to make it, you know, easy for people to do, I will say if someone wants to pin that image, they are going to find a way to pin that image. So like, any image on a page can be pinned easily if you have that extension set up. So if someone wants to pin an image, they're gonna find a way to pin that image. So there's no way to completely prevent people from pinning the images. But it can be helpful for driving traffic to your site because when they do pin it, whether you have that like social sharing option or the extension, like your website is being linked to it already.
So anytime someone repins that pin of theirs or clicks on it or something like that, that's going to drive traffic back to your website and you don't even have to do anything, they're just doing it for you.
So it can be a great way to kind of drive that traffic back to your website without having to do a whole lot.
[00:49:23] Speaker A: One thing I found particularly valuable, even for those designers who are a little more apprehensive about making their stuff so widely available on Pinterest is that whether we like it or not, editors are going to Pinterest to find new work and find new designers and see what's coming up. So there's been quite a few situations where our clients have actually had an editor reach out because they saw a portfolio shot on Pinterest that led them to their website and then they want to do a full coverage story on it or include them in a fireplace roundup or whatever other article that they're working on. And so got it. Great reminder. People are going to pin whether you want them to or not. So you can decide if you want to make it easy for them or make them work a little harder. What kind of traffic conversions do your interior designer clients see on Pinterest? Like, how much of our website traffic should be coming from Pinterest? Or like, what do you feel really good about when you see your clients reach that number?
[00:50:22] Speaker C: Yeah, so Pinterest is a long term strategy, just like Google is. So typically you can see like 1 to 5% growth each month. The great thing with Pinterest is kind of like once you have a pin on Pinterest, like it can still bring you traffic for months. Or I've seen for years, like one of my clients has a pin from 2009 that was still bringing traffic. So you're not going to see that on Facebook and Instagram. So typically it kind of depends on, I would say, how much content someone has. So like, if you're a brand new interior designer and you just have like one or two projects that you're able to share versus, like if you've been, you know, designing for years and you have like 50 projects to share and tons of photos, things like that can, you know, kind of help build traffic more quickly. If you have a lot more content, a lot more blog posts, videos even, that can be helpful. So I would say in terms of the percentage of traffic, usually client will see maybe like 50% of their traffic coming from Pinterest. Pinterest is usually the top social media driver by far because Instagram typically doesn't bring a lot of traffic. Facebook has kind of like died down a little bit. But Pinterest is a really great source of traffic. Um, so it can be definitely a long term, you know, buildup of that traffic. But you should be able to see, you know, some great traffic for months to years to come from it.
[00:51:45] Speaker A: Just for reference, for those listening, on the Interior Collective website of ours, like on our editorial blog, we actually get 89% of our website traffic from Pinterest. And the amount of time we spend creating those pins is so minuscule, non existent in comparison to the amount of time we spend worrying over our captions on Instagram and engaging on Instagram. And so I just cannot, cannot stress enough how valuable Pinterest really is to you from your SEO standpoint and also just from like your marketing content strategy in general. So Julia, if you could give us five steps or five tips on what type of pins are going to perform best for interior designers, tell us what we should be including.
[00:52:36] Speaker C: Yeah, so it will probably vary depending on, you know, the type of design work that you do. So typically I would say like close up detail shots aren't gonna perform as well. Typically like the larger room shots, those photos perform well. So definitely doing like standalone photos. I would definitely test out doing videos. If you are able to do like a video of a room or like a bef, before and afters are huge. If you can do a before and after video, you know, that should perform pretty well. I also recommend creating some pin graphics, especially for blog posts that will have like the title of the blog post or variation of the title of the blog post because those can typically drive more traffic. Sometimes a lot photos will get more saves because people are kind of like saving up photos for like inspiration or just for later. But like graphics that have the text on them, those typically can drive more traffic. And then, yeah, just making sure you are doing that keyword research for all the different types of pins that you're doing, incorporating the keywords in the pin titles, pin descriptions. And then if you are doing the text overlay on like a pin graphic, incorporating the keywords in the text on that. Because the Pinterest AI tool can read that text as long as it's easy to read. Sometimes, like really scripty fonts are not easy to read. And then that can just, you know, verify again to Pinterest what the pin is about. So making sure that you're incorporating the keywords everywhere.
[00:54:02] Speaker A: Can we touch on boards real quick? A question we get a lot from our clients are like how specific or unspecific or how cutesy can I make my board names? And like, I, I think it's so clever and I'm like, right, but nobody else knows how to search for that. So like what, what kind of tips do you have for organizing your boards?
[00:54:21] Speaker C: Yeah, so boards are essentially like the different categories that you have for your content. So don't, don't get too cute. Cutesy because, again, this is a place that you can put keywords for Pinterest to better understand both the board and then also the content that's on the board. So you do want to get kind of get specific. So you also don't want to get so general that it's just like, kitchen or, you know, bedroom. Like, you do want to get, like, you know, coastal kitchen design or, you know, something like that. So I do recommend, you know, having a very clear board title, especially for people who have landed on your profile and kind of want to check out your content. If you do have very cutesy names, then people might not, you know, click on it to get more information because they have no idea what it means.
So making sure everything's very clear. You can also have a board description. You just have to write, like, a sentence or two. You don't have to, like, go crazy and write an entire paragraph. But that can, again, kind of give Pinterest more information to better understand what the board is about.
[00:55:24] Speaker A: Okay, so as we get close to wrapping up, I think my biggest personal struggle with SEO is that I've always prioritized the brand over the SEO keywords. And I want our websites to be eloquent and elevated and speak to a higher caliber of clients. You know, not the DIYers, because they're not going to write us a check to design their house for them. How can designers avoid keyword stuffing while still optimizing their content?
[00:55:54] Speaker C: Mm, yeah. So you only have to use keywords, like, 1 to maybe 5 or 6% of the total. Coffee. You don't have to use it in every single paragraph in every single heading, even if you, like, don't make the, you know, 2% mark or something like that, just because if you do try to force it in a sentence, it's just going to sound weird and robotic. Don't worry about it. You do need to make sure you are focusing on your potential clients and giving them information because you don't want to, like, be trying to game the system, have the keyword written a bunch of times, and then it just sounds like, you know, garbage. And then no one is going to hire you because you don't sound like you know what you're talking about. So making sure, I mean, and then also making sure you are using keywords. Because a lot of times I do get clients that are like, hey, I'm trying to target Philadelphia interior designer. I go to their website, they never once used Philadelphia, and then they use interior and designer separately. Like, they never say the word interior designer to get or the phrase interior designer together.
So making sure you are using, you know, your keywords throughout your copy. But yeah, don't try to stuff it in weird places or like have it in, you know, white font and try to hide it from, you know, viewers or something like that.
[00:57:10] Speaker A: Okay, final rapid fire questions before I let you go. Can you recommend any tools or resources for interior designers looking to improve their SEO who are ready to get their feet wet and start on their own?
[00:57:23] Speaker C: Yeah. Google Search Console is my favorite tool. It's free. It's going to give you such valuable information for SEO, like what keywords you're ranking for, where you're ranking for them, how much traffic you're getting for different keywords, which pages of yours are ranking and getting the most traffic, and then also some technical things like if you have any broken links that can be, you know, affecting how Google can navigate your site in order to, you know, rank your site. So it has so much valuable information and it's free.
[00:57:54] Speaker A: Perfect. Now can you tell us how we can work with you? What would be the next step if someone wants to work with you or someone who offers similar services, but more importantly you?
[00:58:05] Speaker C: Yeah. So for me, Visit my website, JuliArena consulting.com I have all my information on the different services and pricing and everything there. So whether it's Pinterest or SEO, I am booking clients, you know, now and for the near future. So definitely have open spots if you need help. If for I would say if you are interested in kind of like checking out other SEO people, definitely visit their website, check for like testimonials, get information from them. Again, check that contract to make sure there's no weird stuff going on and that they claim they own your website or you know, something like that. Also, one thing I this just came to mind. I should have mentioned this earlier but like if you are interested in working with someone for your SEO, make sure you are the owner of everything. I see a lot of times where an SEO agency has set up someone's Google Analytics account on their email and they can't get access to it anymore or like something happens and they lose access. So make sure you are the owner of your domain, your website, your Google accounts, everything. Don't let someone else create a website, you know, and, or your, your Google Analytics account on their own email and then not be able to have access to it.
[00:59:17] Speaker A: Yes. So as you're getting that set up, it's created under your email, your Gmail account, your business account, and then you add them, as I believe it's called collaborators. Or you just, you can add. Yeah, yeah, admin access. And you get, you grant them access. So then you can also revoke their access in a future point. That is a great reminder, Julia. This was so helpful, so eye opening. Thank you for giving us just enough to not make us all throw up. And I can't wait to talk to you again in the very near future.
[00:59:49] Speaker C: Yeah, thanks for having me. And yeah, always reach out if you guys have questions or you know, there's something weird going on with your site and you don't know what's happening. Always happy to investigate.
[00:59:59] Speaker A: Oh, well, we will have you on speed dial now, so welcome to that can of worms. Thank you so much, Julia. And we'll chat soon.
[01:00:06] Speaker C: Yeah. Thanks.
[01:00:15] Speaker B: For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more. Don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building, building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] the Interior Collective. Thank you so, so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. The biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible. Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living.
