[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Hi, welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey, and today's guest is someone I've admired for a long time, interior designer and author Stephanie Savie. As the founder of Savvy Interior Design and owner of Heirloom Artifacts in Nashville, Stephanie is known for her fresh yet deeply reverent approach to historic homes. In today's episode, we're unpacking the unique challenges and incredible opportunities that come with designing for history, how to honor a home's past sacrificing modern function, how to find the right trades for sensitive restoration work, and how to build time into the process for the kind of thoughtful, layered storytelling Stephanie is known for. We'll also dive into her new book, Interiors of a Storyteller, a stunning design memoir that weaves together nine projects and the personal stories that shaped them. This conversation is equal parts business, beauty and heart, and I can't wait for you to hear it. Thanks for listening. Let's get started.
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[00:01:38] Speaker B: If you've been listening to the Interior Collective for a while, you probably have heard all kinds of software recommendations and maybe even tried a few. But if your system still feels kind of all over the place, I totally get it. That's exactly why I wanted to share. Materio that's M A T E R I O. It's an all in one platform built just for interior designers from concept to install and everything in between. You can try it for free at getmaterio.com and Interior Collective. Listeners get 50% off their first month.
Hi Stephanie and welcome to the Interior Collective. I'm super excited to chat with you today. I'm super honored to discuss all of this. I just think that you're such a talented designer and quite brilliant, so we have some very specific technical questions to get through. I love that you are honoring treasuring, restoring historic homes and so there's just a lot of nuance that goes to that. So I appreciate Your. Your candor as we dig into each of this.
But before we get started, let's just start with having you walk us through your technical education and your path to opening savvy interiors.
[00:02:49] Speaker A: Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me. I. So I actually was told by a fortune teller in the second grade that I would be an interior designer. I wrote about it in my book, but it's. It's an actual true story. It was, like, at a school carnival. So that idea was implanted when I was, I don't know, like, 8 or 9 years old, and then fostered through the show Designing Women, which is a very specific age. If you. If. Have you seen the show Designing? Okay, well, I'm older than you then. It was, like, iconic interior design show in the 80s, based in Georgia, and it was this group of women that just, like, sat around and gossip to talk about interior design. And I was like, oh, that's what I'm going to be when I grow up. So. So Designing Women raised me. And then I went to the University of Tennessee for design school. They have an architecture program that houses the interior design program. So I did that. And then when I graduated in 2002, I did commercial design. So I started in Nashville at a firm called Gresham Smith doing office spaces, and did that for a couple years. And then I moved on to a firm in Memphis that did hotels and casinos. And so I did that for three years, which is a lot of learning, a lot of, like, I can design for any pet, any child, any, anything after designing casinos. And then I moved to Boston with my husband during the recession, the housing market crash recession. And I worked for a guy for six months at a contract position. He didn't have an interiors department, so he hired me to kind of be that for six months. And then that ended. And then I started savvy interior design because I was unemployed. So I'm an accidental firm owner. It was not the plan. I want it to be like the Anna Wintour of someone else's firm and have, like, coffee brought to me and just be like, this huge diva and I, like, take out my own trash. So it all kind of backfired.
[00:04:40] Speaker B: Humbling, isn't it? Okay, so talk to me about what your team looks like now. How many people are on it, if there are any. What your role is in that? And I always like to ask, like, who was your first hire and would that shift in hindsight?
[00:04:54] Speaker A: Yeah. So we've been. I've been back in Nashville now for a little over 10 years. And we've had, you know, a lot of people come and go. Right now there are three of us full time and then we have someone who part time operates the retail sides. We have a small retail shop in front of our studio, but I have another designer, she's like a mid level designer. And then we have a full time procurement, project management, accounting. She's kind of wears a ton of hats. So it's the three of us right now and it's kind of perfect. I've been bigger. We've been up to seven. You know, I think we could grow a little bit, but this is actually as small as I think we'll ever be again. I always tell them like, if we have to get smaller, I'll just close the firm because I don't want to.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Do your jobs 100%. I. I feel like this season we've actually talked with a lot of folks about how they are in a slightly smaller team right now than they have been at their biggest. I feel like post Covid boom, things are settling and projects aren't as necessarily like banging down the door. People grew really fast and they're kind of finding like what is our sweet spot to like maintain everyone's sanity and get our project deliverables out the door.
So I definitely feel like people are experiencing that as well. I am in my own business. I would love to know what first drew you into working with historic homes after your incredibly successful career designing casinos. Like what shaped the design practice?
[00:06:19] Speaker A: Yes. Okay. They actually do have a very like relevant connection when I did office space design, which like most people wouldn't get excited about. But I could still go do some office space design and love it. Like I love space planning and residential design is very similar. Like you're giving components, you're given a shell of a space. Often I'm usually not the one to say like how big the addition is or stuff like that. So I'm given the shell and then I fit the parts in. So learn how to do that from doing the office space design.
Hospitality taught me about the textiles and all that kind of side of it and like durability and how important lighting is. Because in corporate it's just like, you know, 2 by 4 fluorescence, like everywhere. I'm sure it's come a long way since 2000 and whatever. And so yeah, I just felt like once I started looking into residential design, we lived in Boston and I've always been taught to love historic homes. We always kind of looked at old homes and architecture and knew that Was like, good. And then I moved to Boston, and it was like the wool was pulled. I was like, holy cow. I've never been immersed into such, like, you know, Nashville's oldish, but, like, Boston is like Mayflower people, you know, So I was like, this is legit historic. When people would hire me, I would get to go in these, like, 1895 brownstones and, like, see these, like, fireplace details. And this wasn't even considered, like, luxury design. Like, I was a bottom of the barrel designer. It's just. Everyone had that because that's what Boston is. And. And then I was just ruined, like, when I came home, and I'm like, what's up with all this drywall and MDF and, you know, all these details that I'm like, why are we doing this? And Boston's doing it, too. But they just. Their starting point is just so much better than the typical southern home starting point, because my neighborhood, for instance, was developed in the 1920s, but prior to that, it was just farmland. So we don't have. We don't have brownstones and Tennessee, you know, we don't have that kind of architecture. And I just feel like people don't know what they're missing. Like, it's just a better way to live. It truly is. We have plenty of money here, you know, and it. I just really love, like, offering this service to people. It's like, you just ruin it, you know, you ruin everybody's eyes, and it's fun, and it's different. And that's what we try to do. We. We show them real materials, and we're like, see how there's no shadow line when you use, like, hardy instead of cedar? Or, like, see how there's no patina because it's made out of a synthetic product that will just. Yes, it will stay the same forever. But is that what you really want? You know, and it's just fun. It's part of the storytelling and kind of that concept of what we say we do as a firm and the historic architecture and the details play into that so well.
[00:08:49] Speaker B: When we were talking offline just now, you were mentioning that in school, they, like, never pushed residential. Everybody talk to us about what that was like and why it wasn't on your radar.
[00:09:00] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, if you think back to interior design, like, it. It has become this. This field in. In my generation, it's such a wonderful time to be alive. But I feel like the generations before me, you know, they had to deal with, like, it wasn't even a legit it was in the school of Home EC forever at Tennessee, you know, so it was all women and there's just all these things stacked against them. So I think once they finally got it into like a legit, you know, we are a school of architecture. We do construction. They were like, you, you girls, because it's still all girls. You better not be decorating houses. You better get in the architectural world. You better show that you're different, that you've, you've got a training and a degree. And, and so we all did, we worked for Gresham and Gensler and all these places that were what our professors thought were legit. And it's a hard lifestyle. I mean, I sleep on the floor, like, but I was like, look at me, I'm doing it. And then I, you know, I had, I grew up and I was like, I don't, I don't want to do this anymore. Like, I think I'm kind of being like, the fun side is a little bit been stolen from me out of, you know, pride of a pedigree. And so I started just reading interior design magazines. Like, I didn't even know any famous interior designers. Like, I knew a ton of architects that I had never been taught about, like Bunny Melon or like any historic figures because we were pushed into like Louis Kahn and Mies van der Rohe. We only knew the men, we only knew the arch. We knew some female architects, but we only knew architects.
And, and once I got into it, I was like, oh my gosh, this is like a whole thing. This is a legit profession, you know, and it's, I, I love it so much. Like, it's so much fun to work with homeowners on something so personable, because I am a personable person. Like, I like getting into the details and like, how you live and what you're like, and you know, office places, you just don't really get into that, you know.
[00:10:46] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you for sharing because I know a lot of listeners are self conscious or working against the fact that, you know, maybe they aren't traditionally trained. And so it's nice to hear the other, the other side of the coin and like, what was really taught there and how you kind of found your way to the residential side. So let's fast forward to today and when a client comes to you with a historic property, where do you start in the design process?
[00:11:11] Speaker A: Yeah, so our ideal client is also working with an architect. We forever kind of were like, yeah, we can do both, because we can, but I feel like the client we want, that wants the product we want, also wants to use an architect. And so, you know, it's a teamwork effort of like, what's what we're preserving, what we're not, what makes sense. With the growth of the floor plan, you know, we kind of champion saving certain things like fireplace surrounds and whether we're using lighting fixtures and just really kind of coming up with what the homeowner, you know, they bought the property for a reason and what, what vision they have for it. It's really homeowner driven. You know, we don't do like period pieces. Like, you would never work into one of our projects and be like, is this an original? You know, it's a modern home on the interior, not esthetically, but just functionally. But it's just so much fun. And it's just such a fun way. Like I'm doing a house in my neighborhood right now in 8 foot ceilings, like just the old way of living. And it's just like they would have probably never built that. And so I love the parameters of a historic renovation because it's not what people build now, but then people are going to come to this house and be like, it just feels so good in here. And I'm like, yeah, because we didn't put 10 foot ceilings, you know, like you just bigger and taller and whatever is not always better. Like, so I love the limitations of a historic home.
[00:12:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I do too. I love renovation because you can be. Sometimes when you have parameters, you get to be way more creative because you have things you have to work around. So. So in the actual design process, you said ideally your client has an architect they're working with and this client probably has a vision for the space because they purchased the home for a reason.
Where ideally in their process of a renovation. Are they hiring Sappy in Turgon?
[00:12:58] Speaker A: Yeah, we like to be brought in early. This has taken a lot of kind of feeling out, lowering, like checking my own ego.
I think the most ideal point is when the architect has fleshed out a schematic floor plan and feels like they are where they need to be. And it would make sense for a designer to come in and say, how do you live? What kind of furniture do you have? Because they're not going to do that. And the ones that kind of proceed down the path and then want to be done before we start, they get so frustrated with us. But I'm like, you had every opportunity to call it, you know, like, you don't do furniture Design, like, we, you know, so we'll get in there and be like, you need to move this wall a couple of feet, stuff like that. And most of the architects we were. They're awesome and don't care. Some of them are like, you know, I already already did the CDs. I don't want to change anything. I'm like, that's not, you know, tough. It's teamwork. Teamwork. But I love fleshing out, like, all the millwork details and stuff like that with the architect. Like, I can do some, like, killer, you know, fireplace surrounds and door trims, but, like, stairs. I really do want the architect to, like, think through that with me and make sure I'm not missing some transition details. And it's. It's really a better process when you have a team.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: You mentioned a couple minutes ago how you. You aren't designing historical homes to be historically accurate. Inside, you're like, they're modern living spaces. Do you build in time for researching the history of a home and how does that historical context shape the design direction, if at all?
[00:14:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say, no, not really. I mean, we build in time to, like, do all the design of, like. So we. What we'll do is, like, if we'll look up homes of similar eras and how they lived and look at the details that were still intact, because oftentimes stuff has been stripped in, like, the 70s and 80s. And so, like, we in a kitchen, you know, if we're doing a home that's 100 years old, like, we'll look at the, you know, where they have the fireplaces to cook on and stuff like that and try to kind of think through, like, what is a modern translation of that. I get into the wood.
A lot of residential people don't. They're just like, just design my house. You know, with commercial, you could be like, you know, the blue stands for the pool, and, like, you know, it's very, like, hokey because there's. It's less creative in a way. But with residential, it's like, you know, my clients really don't care as long as their eyeballs are like, I like that. You know.
[00:15:20] Speaker B: What do you feel are some of the most common challenges you are encountering in historic home renovations from a designer's perspective? Like, what are the hiccups that you were just now, at this point, prepared for?
[00:15:33] Speaker A: Yeah, budget. Because sadly, to build a house made out of raw materials costs a lot of money. I think what some of the homes I've designed would look like the modest like back houses of like, you know, they're. We don't do shiny. Like, people who, like, want to look wealthy don't come to us. It's more people who want to do something that is going to stand the test of time and look like it's always been there. And so that's stone, that's wood. That's just a lot of, like, real materials. Like, true divide all wood windows and, you know, lacquered brass door hinges and hardware. And it all just costs a little bit more than all the manufactured polished, you know, and that's. It's sad, but true. But so we get into it and we. We know the formula because we've done it. And then we'll break it down in a bed and people like, you know, and it's like, yeah, I mean, maybe the upstairs can have polished chrome. You know, so then we have to peel back and then we, you know, it's fine. Like, we know how to make the concessions where needed to be. But when you do know, like, this is how to build an old home, like, I tell people all the time, I'm like, save money for the roof, Save money for the roof. And they never do. And then I'm like, every cedar roof house in town, everyone's like, that is the most charming house in town. And I'm like, it's just a roofing material. It is more expensive, but it looks like a storybook cottage because it's just not that complicated, you know?
[00:16:51] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Great advice. As I'm thinking about historic homes especially. And you're in Belmead, right? That area of Nashville. I just feel like, because everybody's building it more simply cheaply, the. The trades who can do these incredible crafts and specific, specific trades in how these older homes were built, it just feels like they're fewer and further between.
And so in your experience, what trades are essential to bring in early for a successful. I'm calling it a historic renovation. I mean, a renovation in a historic home.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: Yeah. So I always tell homeowners, like, don't give someone their first try. I know that sounds terrible, but, like, when you're doing this type of home, you want someone where their default style, like what they know how to do is what you want. And so they need to have examples of a home that has all those trades. So, like the stone, like full depth stone or, you know, mitered corners on cedar siding, like all the things. And it's a contractor who knows the full gamut. We don't sub out specifics. Like, I'M not pulling a tile guy myself or what have you even, like, your stone making. Sure. Like, your contractors go to stone Fabricator knows how to do things other than cut a rectangle and sit it on top of a countertop, you know, because so many don't. And they'll be like, you know, they'll make up all these reasons. And I'm like, really? Because they built like they built Italy before there was even, like, modern machinery. Like, it, you know, it's.
It's been done. We could probably figure it out. So, you know, I love. I laugh so hard at people when they say things like, well, this is just the industry standard now. I'm like, no, no, no, that's your standard. Like, it's just. They all go to these conferences and talk, you know, technology and construction and that's great. But often it's things that aren't what. What you and I are talking about, you know, and then they. And then they want to claim that's just how it. Like, I had a guy come. He's. He told this person from California, oh, in Nashville, it's just standard to do engineered hardwood flooring. That's just what they all do. And this man wasn't even from here. And I was like, excuse me, sir, how dare you. Do not act like we don't know what's right and wrong. Like, we do regular hardwood flooring. You just bid engineered and you are telling them that's what we do. You know, so it's all comes down to money. Honestly. It's all money.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So as you're. As you are looking to start to find these trades, and I know that you said that you are not.
You are not hiring out those subs. It's the contractor. Talk to us about how you're finding contractors or building relationships with contractors that do know the right subs to get to what you're looking for and what you do if you're brought onto a job and you're like, I just don't know if this contractor is going to get us to where we need to go.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: Yeah, that's definitely happened. I'm on a job right now where that's happening. I have. Nobody's listening. I am very vocal about it because the one thing about being an interior designer is you are this, like, the tie that binds. Like, we. We are talking to architect, hiring the contractor, representing the homeowner, and. And you get blamed for everything, really. You're like the easy. Blame the paint schedule. You know, they paint something wrong. Well, Stephanie, Told me this. So we try to document everything, but I also try to wave all the red flags when there are really loudly. And I'm like, I'm not being unkind. And how I describe it is, you're hiring someone whose default is not what you want, and that's on you if they do what they know to do and they don't do what you are trying to. You just don't want to teach someone how to do their job right. You want to hire someone. Same for me. Like, don't hire me and teach me how to do someone else's style. Like, hire me to do my style. But I had a bid is a big lake house a couple of years ago, and the client was Leslie, and it was managing from afar. And they wanted to hire this contractor and he bid an entire house of wire closet shelving. And I was just like, no, no you do not. That is so off the level that we're going for in this house. He doesn't understand. You would never do that in a two million dollar lake house. And they stuck with him. And I was like, I can't do, I can't do this from afar. Like, I can't work with someone that would do that and not think that's crazy. And he was like, well, she didn't tell me what to do, you know. So I was like, I quit the project kindly. They had someone else. But I just, yeah, I am not gonna go down for like, you know, like, I have a lot of experience. Like, I'm telling you what I think. And if, if you want to proceed anyway, that's totally fine. Like, no hurt feelings. But I, I just know that it's gonna go badly. I don't know how that one went, but I have a feeling it was not easy. You just kind of know after doing it for 20 plus years.
[00:21:28] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So when you all moved back to Nashville, you said you guys have been there since 2010. Is that what you said?
[00:21:35] Speaker A: We moved back in 2015.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Sorry, 2015. So since you've been there, how did you go about finding the right builders to work with? Was it that you got lucky because someone hired you and they had a great builder, or did you have to like seek them out to get put on the right projects?
[00:21:50] Speaker A: Yeah, I. So the best clients come at me, come for me first. Like before they lock down the contractor and they care about my opinion on who they hire. I will say in the early days, and I've been back to Nashville, I had to kind of start all over. I Had a good run in Boston. We were in a lot of, you know, had pressed and then we came back here and Nashville's like so cool again. Or it, it got cool and nobody cared about me coming home. I thought I was like a hot shot and they were like, oh, hey. So I would take whatever project I could get and work with who I could work with. There's not a lot of small jobs guys around here. So when you're only doing kitchen and baths, you have to work with some interesting subs. But managing a kitchen back is not hard.
Managing an 8,000 square foot house is hard if you don't have the right team. So I always make the clients that the contracts themselves. I mean, you know, we've had contractors be amazing and I've had clients sue contractors. So I'm always like, we'll interview them together with the architects and everyone can kind of have an opinion. At the end of the day it is your decision because a guy who did a really great job on the last house maybe having a rough year and he may do terrible on your house. And I don't want to be like the one who was like this is the guy, you know, so we all kind of own it. But really just looking at people's work and seeing like, you know what their default is, like I'm on a project right now that I had a. I realized like he had pre board, he was going to pre bore all the interior doors. And I was like, no, we ordered like historic looking hardware with the very small back plates. I was like, you can't put the two and a half inch bore on the back of it. So it's just staying ahead of little things like that that's manageable.
The ones who want to go through and just do like these overlay cabinets with like, you know, it's just like they don't understand and it's, it's too much to teach them and manage a construction project.
[00:23:37] Speaker B: You know, are there any non negotiables that you will always anticipate are going to need updating in historic projects? Plumbing, electrical, insulation. Things that designers should plan for at the beginning as they start to think through designs and their corresponding construction budgets that will go with it knowing that like we're going to have to do this even though it's not pretty?
[00:23:58] Speaker A: Yeah. I will say I love historic homes. The most, Most of the historic homes that I have done, we have gutted and I t. There's a, there's a, a friend of mine named Mary Spotswood. She Is this amazing like Martha Stewart type person who has a historic home. I think it's outside of Richmond, Virginia. She still up here. But I said something like, oh, I want to, you know, renovate some homes there. And I never thought about keeping everything, you know, because there's lead and asbestos and we don't have those quality level homes here. So our exteriors are beautiful.
Our fireplaces, there's, there's moments but we're still gutting the interiors and re insulating. The windows are new. Like it's not historic preservation in like a. I did a house in Mississippi that we kept walls because there were hand painted murals and stuff like that, but the kitchen and baths were completely ripped out.
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I am curious now as you talk about that, how, how are you maintaining the esthetic integrity of a store space when you do it? It's the most economical to take all of the walls down and let. And let's say you're putting like that was plaster walls with amazing plaster molding and all of those things. How are you keeping those details but still getting into the walls?
[00:26:08] Speaker A: Yeah, that's why they're mostly gutted. The plaster, old plaster is such a beast to deal with. I mean you cannot, you cannot update a whole home electrical system. Someone's going to get on here and be like, yes, you can.
But so most of the homes that we're doing, you know, are 100 years old and they need, they have knob and tube wiring, so you have to pull that out. And when you get into pulling all that out, you're tearing out the plaster. And it's not, I will say my design is not, it's not contingent on that, that style plaster remaining. Like I don't feel like. And we have it in My house here. But you can't. It's so hard to like hang anything on that stuff. It's like the lath and plaster, not what people are doing now in like the west coast that if anybody's listening, like this is not like Portello paints looking plaster. You know, it's like hand, you know, I don't even know how they do it, but nobody does that anymore here. The end. I mean we, we try not to have drywall. Like Stephen Gambrel, you know, said like the best way to create the historic home look is to like not have drywall on the door. So we'll do a lot of like wood paneling. We do a lot of step lap, we do a lot of beadboard. But that old school plaster technique, we haven't done that.
[00:27:19] Speaker B: Interesting. Well, I'm excited to see when you do.
[00:27:21] Speaker A: You're calling my blast maybe I'm not a true historic, historic designer.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: What are your go to strategies for designing around walls that you can't remove? You've mentioned fireplaces a few times and I imagine that those are the harder elements that you are not moving.
What solutions do you have when someone's coming across?
Say a client really wants to open up a space, but the, the home is historically more individual rooms, like you said, eight foot ceilings and proper designated spaces.
How are you problem solving when a client's maybe looking for something more open but you're like, we really do need to keep it like this either structurally or because you know that that's what the home really calls for.
[00:28:05] Speaker A: Yeah, that one I feel like is pretty easy. I feel like people are actually going back towards rooms in a home and like experiencing their home experience. I always say like a hot and cold pool, like you don't enjoy or weather, you know, you like don't enjoy the sunny days unless there are cloudy days. And it's kind of the same with homes. Like you need rooms to feel different, to like experience your home. But we don't get a lot of pushback. Like we'll have, you know, oh, we want the kitchen open to the living room. And so we just try to make sure there's no like outside corners. That's not a thing in older homes. That's kind of like a condo. I'm always like, that's a condo detail. But it, we case the openings between the two spaces so that there is some like implication of a room, you know, like between the two. But it still can be very open and. But yeah, we love, we love rooms. We, we Talk about transition details more than anything. Like, we're like, oh, we gotta case that because, you know, we won't walk over there, we want to switch to wood paneling. So we gotta case the opening. So we have a good transition detail, Stuff like that.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Having been technically trained and going to school and you mentioned, you know, your professors were like, you know, the codes, you know, all these things. So you should go commercial and end up at Gensler because you have that knowledge. How are you balancing like code requirements and modern safety standards with preserving original architectural details? Is that something that you come across and is that technical training you have proven to be valuable in those situations?
[00:29:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, there's different kinds of technical training in residential design that, like, honestly we didn't really learn about. And in the school that I went to, as far as like, egress codes and like making sure you can get out of a window if it's like casement and different things like that. I haven't run into anything that I feel like is, you know, I think there is. My home does not have an updated electrical system because we did choose to keep the original plaster. So that is, you know, it's. It. It's grandfathered in. Is it like the safest way to live? Probably not. But I can't think of anything else that like, we have to, you know, update, like when we add dormers and stuff like that and additions or existing attics, like, we, we have to meet code. So I don't think there's anything where I feel like we're. I mean, we have some non operable fireplaces. Like mine, for instance. In my house, you cannot light a fire in it because it'll burn the house down. But, you know, we just live with it. I think some people would spend it's like $80,000 to, in Nashville to redo a historic fireplace. So we are going to live with what we have for a while.
[00:30:33] Speaker B: You mentioned this a little bit at the top of the show. I'd love if you could go into more detail as far as what elements or historical details are you most interested in saving and what areas are you comfortable with modernizing? So, for instance, if there's beautiful doors, are you keeping doors? I know you mentioned fireplaces. What are other things that are like, this is what's going to make this house continue to feel historic?
[00:31:00] Speaker A: Yes, we love, we love, you know, baseboards, door casings, and oftentimes where we're going in and really ripping apart things because there are safety concerns with just it's like a historic home. It's kind of like messing with an electrical system. Like, our electrician always says, yours is fine. It's not messed with. There's no squirrels eating the wires. That's when it would be bad. And it's kind of the same with historic homes. When they're not messed with, they're not unhealthy. But when you start sanding and sawing and cutting and lead paint, particles are flying everywhere, and you're trying to keep old wood that's coated in, like 100 years of paint, it's often better to take those profiles to the millwork shop where you're subbing, like, where your contractor is getting all. And they can do what they call, like a custom knife and. And make the same baseboard and the same window casing. And so we. More so let the house teach us what it's supposed to look like instead of, like, reinventing the wheel. But we're not trying to, like, pull off crown, sit it in a pile, patch it together. Some people would, but we have just found that, like, cleaning it up in the same way, you know, architecturally, the same way feels better to our end user.
[00:32:09] Speaker B: What are elements that you're comfortable modernizing, even aesthetically? You had talked about, like, you like to look at what that kitchen looked like 100 years ago. Where was the fire? What elements in the kitchen are you like, we're not going to be using a fire pit. We're going to go ahead.
[00:32:25] Speaker A: We use an oven. I mean, in a kitchen, like, we're people in the south. Like a full glitz kitchen, you know, and like, we really try to make it not look like a full glitz kitchen by penalizing things and hiding things. I'm a big fan of the dirty kitchen or the scullery and really making that kind of like the workhorse of appliances. We don't do countertop appliances. We really think about, like, how do you live? And like, you know, I feel like garage, like appliance garages were cool for a while, but it's like, if the door's always open and you see all that, is that really practical? So we typically will, like, line the counters in the pantry with all the things like the, the. The toaster, the blender, the coffee maker, it's all in there. And then your kitchen is a kitchen. It has the refrigerator, it has the oven, it has the sink. But, you know, and it. It could look kind of like a living room. I. I went in Rayboost house a couple years ago for A party. And I didn't even know it was the kitchen. You know, his refrigerator was, like, behind a wall, and I'm like, are we in the kitchen right now? And, you know, I love that. You know, I love. I hate the kitchen triangle. I hate all that kind of old stuff that says, like, how a kitchen should look. And so, you know, I don't know. I think there are no rules anymore, and, like, you can make things, but I. I like the kitchen to feel like a living space, and that's just more of a general design, not a historic thing, you know?
[00:33:44] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
How do you educate your clients about the time and costs associated with working with a historic structure? And I'm sorry I keep saying historic. I just mean old. I know we're not talking about, like, placard registered historic homes. Is. Is there any particular language or storytelling you use to, like, help prepare them for this journey they're about to go on?
[00:34:11] Speaker A: Yes. I mean, a lot of our clients have already been living in these homes, so they. They know them, they love them. They've been saving to move out. That's our most often. Our client has lived in their house for five to 10 years, and then they know everything they hate, you know, and they are ready to just pull the trigger. But, you know, we make everybody move out, obviously, because, like, messy and terrible. But, yeah, it's 20 more. Always, like, period. I don't know why anyone does anything anymore without just. Just assuming. The contractor is low, bidding by 20% because it. I could pull all the numbers. It just always is around that. And that's not always their fault. It's like, we don't fully design houses before they bid them, and everyone always likes something nicer than they thought they would, you know, and so they choose, like, we don't have to do it. But, yeah, this. This marble is better than that marble. Which one do you want? You know, it's just. It's a lot of surprises. You know, sometimes they'll be like, well, my friend had to basically tear her house down because it had no foundation. I was not the designer on it, but it was built on this, like, stone perimeter that wasn't a true foundation. So she designed it as a renovation, and they ended up tearing it down and building it new, which was heartbreaking. But, yeah, it's just painful. And there are a lot more surprises in any renovation over a new constructed home.
[00:35:24] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. How?
I want to talk about construction documentation, because we talk about this a lot on the show. And how are you organizing documentation for These types of projects. Projects. Do you find that design documentation on a historic property is more complex or more simple than a new build project?
[00:35:42] Speaker A: The documentation side is, you know, if we're working with an architect, and I think that's why I've pushed to work with an architect. It's, you know, there's a set of AS built drawings done before we start, which I love, because I do not love doing AS built drawings. And so it's somewhat of a similar process really, because when we're ideally brought in, there is already this set of plans being developed that has all the existing conditions, whether it's new construction or existing. You know, they've talked through windows and stairs and all that kind of stuff. So we jump in typically with interior elevations, and we, we manage that whole set. And what I told my staff actually today, because our architecture withdraw and we're not here to like duplicate work or try to create more work to make more money.
I think what. At the end of the day, my drawings are a set of coordination drawings more than construction drawings. So we are drawing it all. I often find my drawings, like sitting on the ground or in a pile of rubble. You know, they don't get the respect. And so I was like, let's just understand that and roll with it. But, you know, I'm drawing all the furniture, the lighting, the art, anything like that to kind of like catch conflict before it happens. More so than I need you to do this wall exactly like this, like they do. But we're on site every week. We're looking. The cabinet shop is doing full sets of shop drawings. So there is, there is that layer of coordination that we don't like in commercial. We didn't get that. So it's just, there's more hands involved. So I really think what ours is just getting all the ideas out on paper and then having that set of paper with us. When they're like, is this a good spot for this outlet? And you're like, no, actually I'm gonna put a 2,000 pound credenza. There's. And you know, that's handled. And we picked the spot. Whereas if I dimensioned it on a floor plan, it's probably going to get put in the wrong spot. You know, there's a lot of like, assumptions made. I hear all the time, well, that's just how I do it. You know, every two feet, stuff like that. And you're. I think in residential design, you got to get out in the field and you got to kind of walk people through some stuff. To get it done the best way, especially in a historic home. Because, you know, they'll. You can do an RCP and you know, we draw our lighting plans, but even in a new house, they'll be like, well, there's this. There was a. There's a joy. So you're gonna hit a joy, Stephanie. And I'm like, you gotta call me. Like, you can't just shift the lighting grid, you know, so it's a very hands on. There's no like drawing a set of drawings and walking away. But we do our best. You know, we do RCPs, we do electrical plans, we do furniture plans, dirt, reprints, plumbing, all the plans, and then hope they read them. You know, most often they really don't. So we show them. It's more of just like, see, it's right here.
[00:38:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Do you find that clients who are drawn to these historic homes or who have been living in these historic homes require a different kind of design relationship with you? Do you feel like they are more involved, less involved, need more hand holding, or are really confident in what they're looking for and hand it over?
[00:38:40] Speaker A: Oh, man, I wish that could be answered in terms of architectural style. You just really don't. People don't know who they are in this process until they get into it. And, you know, we were joking last week about the clients who say, oh, I'm easy. I just want, you know, I'm easy. I'll just, I'll just agree with everything. You know, they end up being the least easy clients because they had to, like, clarify that point. But I think people all have the best of intentions. We really try, really try to get people to hire us who say that they could go into a coma mid project and feel confident that they could wake up. And they know because we led our part, they'll love it. And if it's people who really feel I. And I parted. I had a sweet client that we worked with in the fall, and she told me that at the beginning and then we got into it, and she's just the loveliest person. And she would just be like, I'm sorry I lied. Like, I'm sorry I have to send you like 200 wallpapers every day. You know, and she was so charming. And then finally I had to just call her and be like, hey, remember what we talked about? Like, this is just not how we work. Like, I can't do this. And she was like, I know. And so she found someone else who, like, likes to work like that and can, like, sift through all the ideas and like really churn the wheels. We have like a pretty formulaic, like process and it keeps it on time, hopefully on budget. Like, we, we know what we're doing, but we need to do it the way we do it, you know, not stylistically, but like we have a process, you know, like, we know how we present, we know how we propose, we know all that stuff. And if, if you feel the need to change it, like, we're probably not the right firm, you know.
[00:40:12] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. From a project management standpoint, how do you build a timeline that accounts for those hidden conditions and surprises? You mentioned that you should just assume that your construction budget is going to go 20% over. Do you have a similar hard and fast rule for timeline as well?
[00:40:29] Speaker A: Yeah, we bill hourly and we try our best to stick to what we have established as like a not to exceed max. So we'll look at square footage, we'll talk to the client, kind of get an idea. I do add like a contingency percentage to go over in it, but yeah, it's just, I understand. I have friends, I ask that question all the time. How do you bid a project? How do you tell people how much it's going to cost? Because I, as a homeowner would not want to just feel like I had this open ended, you know, meter going. But I do want to be, I want people to be aware. Like, you know, when we talk on the phone for an hour, like you will be billed for it. It is like a little confusing, you know, people, it's just such a. People want to text people. There's so many ways to reach me. Like, so I found that hourly billing works for us and we send monthly atomized bills of exactly what we've done at our different rates. And we get very little questions about it all. But we try to say, like, we think it's going to be about whatever 500 hours at these rates for these services.
And if that fits your budget, you know, that's great.
[00:41:34] Speaker B: Awesome. So you charge hourly. Is it hourly throughout the entire process, all the way down to install, or do you have a different way of charging during project management and install or any other combination?
[00:41:46] Speaker A: We just have our hourly rate. So I have my rate. Kendall, who's our designer, has a rate and then Mary has a rate and it's just those rates through the whole project.
[00:41:54] Speaker B: If you, Mary and Kendall are all in a meeting at the same time, which I know probably doesn't actually happen all that often, are you billing for each of yalls hour.
[00:42:04] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:42:04] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:42:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:05] Speaker B: Thank you for clarifying. Okay. Any parting advice for designers thinking about taking on their first historic home project? Like they're dying to work on an old home. What is your, like, buckle up advice?
[00:42:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think everyone should watch the movie. And you're probably seeing to remember this. And also, but Money Pit, have you ever seen Money Pit with Tom Hanks? Oh, my gosh.
Yeah. I gotta give you all. You gotta, you gotta go watch Designing Women and you gotta go watch Money Pit. So Money Pit is a movie about a couple who buys a historic home to renovate. And it's just this mess after mess after mess of like, what could go wrong, goes wrong, you know, and they lose all their money and it's like, you know, funny. But that is, sometimes that is how historic renovation goes.
[00:42:50] Speaker B: I was like, I haven't seen this movie, but I feel like I have lived this movie. So.
[00:42:54] Speaker A: Right. Sometimes it's like going and adopting like the most scraggly looking dog at the adoption place, you know, and you just like, you love it. But like, he's got a lot of problems, you know, and some of them are fixable and some of them are not. So it's just, it's not for everybody at all. But I also think, people think when they build a new home, that's some perfect baby too. And there's problems with that as well. But yeah, I mean, I think it's just going into it, understanding that like, it's a journey and there's going to be ups and downs and you, you gotta kind of put your head down and get, get through it. But there's just so many, I mean, just looking outside of my house, like, you know, I have 100 year old trees in my yard. You can't get that in these like, new construction neighborhoods because they've clear cut the lot. You know, there's just so much to love about an old home, but it's like the, the baby, you will babysit it your whole life.
[00:43:45] Speaker B: Before we wrap up, we have to talk about your new memoir. What inspired you to write Interiors of a Storyteller? And how long has this concept been simmering in your brain?
[00:43:56] Speaker A: Yes. So not very long. I'm like, I love like a adventure. So if you were like, let's go today and bungee jump and whatever, I'd be like, yes, let's do it. So I never wanted to write a book, just like I never wanted to own my own firm. But someone called me from Gibson two summers ago and they were like, do you want to write a book? We follow you on Instagram, blah blah. And I was like, okay, I just happen to have a lot of work on photograph post Covid. So we were so busy during those post Covid years and So I had nine projects and so we spent the past 18 months photographing all that with Joseph Bradshaw. He's in Nashville. And you know, everyone is going to have a book I think in like 10 years. Like, I think that's kind of the new thing. So I was like, well, how can my book be different? And Gibbs Smith was really kind of like whatever about whatever I want to do. And I was like, I want to write stories because I like writing Instagram posts that are completely unrelated to the photo.
And they were like, whatever, you know, do your thing. So I wrote a memoir and tied it into the work kind of loosely and then told stories about the projects and really just kind of like tried to be a writer. I wish I like, I want to be like the Brene Brown of like, you know, interior design. I have a long ways to go. But yeah, it's just I wanted a book that was different. You know, there's just a ton of interior design books out there. So hopefully it's just something different. It makes people kind of worth buying it and actually reading the words.
[00:45:16] Speaker B: It's a super personal and emotional book to follow. At some points you're talking about your family of six's time in your hundred year old home and how your ill mother was living with you guys at a time.
How did you incorporate the kind of collage style of storytelling with.
You said kind of loosely weaving it into the work that you were doing at the time.
[00:45:42] Speaker A: Yeah. So I'm sure everyone has this in their career no matter what your profession is. But when I look back at my portfolio, portfolio of work, like I see houses, but I see like I was pregnant then and. Or I see there's a house called Palmer Avenue in the book and that whole project, my mom was at my house dying of cancer.
And so when I see those pictures, I see that house that I see like the phone calls I got from her nurse or like just the afternoons I spent sitting at her bedside and stuff like that. So it was really easy once we photographed the projects for me to be like, what do I want to talk about? Because the work cues so many memories for me.
Two of the projects are by for an author who like, coincidentally I read his book when I was like 23 years old and then 20 years later he hired me. So that was like an easy story to tell because I was like, you know, it. He is a part of my life in that way. And I. It was just fun to kind of bridge that gap.
[00:46:42] Speaker B: Your final message in the book is that contentment isn't found in a well appointed home, but in the people living inside of it. How does that philosophy influence the way you design today? And how do you put it into practice when it comes to working with clients?
[00:46:58] Speaker A: Yes, I think. I think the most rewarding projects that we work on are people who are happy outside of this project. Right. People who, who lit. Who have friends and who love, you know, life and getting out and like, and. And the. The most unfortunate work we've done in the past are people whose happiness feels like this future hope of, like, when I'm done with this house or when I get to this point or when I have, you know, sadly, like, this baby or my life changes. There's so much that relates to living in our homes and feeling like it's either temporary or, you know, and so that's just kind of what I want to say. Look, I love what I do professionally is such a gift. But for those people we've worked with, that felt like contentment and happiness will be found when, dot dot dot it won't be like, it's not that. It really isn't. And I'm fortunate to get to do what I do. But, you know, in my hopes, you. You live in this house, you wreck this house, the dogs, the kids, all the things you got friends. Like, this house is not a museum. This house is like a living, breathing piece of your life. And yeah, we don't make show houses like, we make living houses. And I want to attract those kind of clients that, like, I'm just a little piece of their puzzle. I'm not this sort of, like, path to happiness. I don't want to be that for anybody, you know, I just want to help you live your. Live your life with a pretty background.
[00:48:25] Speaker B: I love that. Stephanie. We like to end every show with a little sneak peek of what you might have in the works. Are there any projects, collabs, any special announcements that you can tease us with Today?
[00:48:36] Speaker A: We are wrapping up a historic home on Hampton Avenue in Nashville. This summer, we're installing in and it is. It's one of the most fun projects I've ever done, so I'm super excited about that.
[00:48:47] Speaker B: Oh, I can't wait to see it. I hope that we get to see it sometimes this year because I know that there's always a long lead time after you install when we're actually able to see the pictures.
[00:48:55] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it'll be a good one. It's a really great client and it's one street behind the house, so it's just like so fun to manage.
[00:49:03] Speaker B: Well, Stephanie, thank you so much for your time and your insights to your super dreamy location, neighborhood opportunity and projects you get to work on. It was super helpful for anybody looking to get into historic homes.
[00:49:15] Speaker A: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
[00:49:18] Speaker C: For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more, don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] the Interior Collection Collective thank you so so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations.
A big huge thank you to our production team at IDCO Studio and Quinn made. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible. Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living.
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