[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Hi, welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey, and today's conversation feels especially close to my heart. After spending the last 10 years building my business, scaling a team, and pouring everything into my work, I finally took the leap into motherhood. And now I'm sitting here with a four month old at home, learning firsthand what it means to balance entrepreneurship with a brand new kind of responsibility.
That's why I was so excited to sit down with interior designer Kim Lapin. Kim runs a thriving, highly intentional design business while also raising three kids under the age of five. Yes, three under five. But what's even more impressive is the way she's made a conscious decision to stay small, take on projects that feel deeply fulfilling, and outsource in all the right places, both professionally and personally, in order to create the life and business she truly wants. In this episode, we talk about saying no to the pressure to scale, redefining success in motherhood, and letting go the guilt that so many of us feel when we're not doing it all. Whether you're in the thick of the same season or you're just thinking about what sustainable success could really look like for you, this conversation is full of insight, honesty and so much grace. Let's dive in.
[00:01:15] Speaker C: We are so excited to invite you to dive deeper into the Interior Collective Podcast. Episodes now on Patreon unlock access to in depth analysis, helpful downloads and worksheets created with each podcast episode. Subscribers gain behind the scenes access to additional resources like examples and screenshots of guest spreadsheets, construction documents, and so much more. Your subscription also gets you immediate access to our private community of interior designers and our team of industry experts ready to answer your questions. Subscribe
[email protected] the Interior Collective or Linked in the Show Notes. Join the Interior Collective Patreon community and let's continue this conversation.
[00:01:56] Speaker B: If you've been listening to the Interior Collective for a while, you probably have heard all kinds of software recommendations and maybe even tried a few. But if your system still feels kind of all over the place, I totally get it. That's exactly why I wanted to share Materio that's M A T E R I O. It's an all in one platform built just for interior designers. From concept to install and everything in between, you can try it for
[email protected] and Interior Collective. Listeners get 50% off their first month.
Hello Kim. Welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you here.
[00:02:31] Speaker A: Hi. I'm so excited.
[00:02:33] Speaker B: For those listening, I Wish someday I'll figure out how we're gonna screen record these. But I wish you guys could see how cool and stunningly beautiful Kim's office is behind her. It's. It is so amazing. And I'm like, man, I should have just flown in to record this so I could see your office.
[00:02:47] Speaker A: Oh my God. No, we. We opened our office last June. Cause I was working at the coffee shop for like eight hours every day and it got to be like. Cause I couldn't work at home because there's like screaming kids everywhere and it sounds like someone's getting murdered in at all times. So I'm like, okay, coffee shop. And then after like 12 months of seeing everyone I knew at the coffee shop, like all day, every day, I'm like, I have to get a space. This is crazy. So this is the space.
[00:03:07] Speaker B: It's spectacular. I talked about it in the intro to the show a little bit, but I'm gonna try to get through this episode without crying. It's like super personal and like top of mind right now. I'm so grateful for you opening up about it. Obviously, I'm a new first time mom. I've got a four month old at home. But you've got three kids under four.
[00:03:27] Speaker A: Yes, well, she just turned five last week, so I can't. My street cred is out the door. But no. So I have 3 under 5 now as of last week.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: Well, that's actually not really impressive. So let's just change the time.
[00:03:37] Speaker A: You suck, actually.
[00:03:39] Speaker B: So I guess first of all, how are you doing?
[00:03:41] Speaker A: I'm okay. So I left the house today to come record this and like, the kids were screaming and like fighting and I was like, oh, I. I better not tell her that when I get there because it's. It's a shit show at all times, honestly. But I'm doing good, all things considered. My kids are healthy. Like, I love being a mom, but as you know, it's like very twofold. You love it so much. There's so much like, you know, just that comes with it. You feel so much like love for them and you just feel fulfilled in like this way that you weren't feeling before. Maybe. But at the same time, there's anxiety. Like, I dealt with such crazy, like, postpartum anxiety that I didn't. I didn't even know that was like a thing. And I was like the most chill person before having kids. And now I am the least chill person I've ever met when it comes to pretty much everything. But like, it's It's a lot to have to like, you know, let these little things thrive and survive. And it's your responsibility that, you know, to. To make that work. So I'm good. But, you know, all things considered, yeah.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: I haven't even reached that level of anxiety because right now she can't even really roll over. So I'm like, I can pretty much guarantee that you're gonna survive because you can't move. But as soon as she's mobile, then all of a sudden I'm gonna be like, next level. No, actually having Cameron has made me a new level of calm. It. It's.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: It.
[00:04:53] Speaker B: I can't even describe it. She surprised us six weeks early. I had all the plans in the world. She came during our baby moon, and it was. Any plans I had were just like, out the window. I had zero control. And I just absolutely credited to like, some sort of hormonal nature thing. But, like, as it was happening, I was so calm and it never really. I never really shook out of it. I'm just like, my job is to be calm for her. And so it's actually really grounded me.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: But, oh my gosh, I'm so happy for you. That was not my experience, but I'm really happy for you because I feel like it could go either way. And I didn't recognize myself with this new, like, anxiety. Cause I thought I would be the most chill person, the most calm person ever. But I feel like that's a gift because then you could really soak it in without having that extra noise that shouldn't be there. You know, the. All the anxious thoughts and stuff that could happen.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: Well, I lived my entire life with a pretty, pretty high functioning level of anxiety. So the fact that there's like this quietness all of a sudden is actually really nice. She's teaching me to slow down. So let's dig into it. We have to get to all of the actual details of, like, how you do all that you do.
But first, can you walk us through a typical day in your life right now? On a workday, like, what happens?
[00:06:14] Speaker A: Yes. So every day is a little different because like I said, there's three and my oldest is in preschool. And it's kind of a revolving door of help at our house because we don't have someone just full time. I'm lucky because we live near my mom and dad, who are like two minutes down the street from us. And then my older sister Kelly lives two minutes in the opposite direction and works full time for my husband. So like she helps run his business but she comes over in the morning to help us. Because he leaves for work at like 7:30. He's up with the kids from like probably 6:30 till that 7:30 point. And he gets up with them at night now if they wake up. Cuz I was like I kind of put my time in. I was pregnant with twins and pregnant for like, you know, like miserable. And then like I nursed for two years with my first. So it, I feel like I like really put my time in. And so he's totally, he's like very hands on dad. He wakes up with them at night, he wakes up with them in the morning. I get up around 7:45. I'm like, I could tell you what my coffee drink is but like how detailed you want to go but. And then I leave the house probably around nine to take my daughter to preschool. And then my sister stays with the twins while I drop her off at preschool. For the first like two years I was coming back home to kind of hang out with them for the next hour because you know there's like, I don't know, I can't remember the nap schedules like after we passed the nap schedule situation like from three naps to two. I can't remember anything about the previous stage. Right now we're in one nap. But they used to take a nap like 11. So I would stay till like 10:30 to feel like I wasn't really missing much of their day. So I was getting like my like it's like mom time. Like okay, if I only go like 30 minutes before their nap and I get home like 30 minutes after, technically I only missed an hour of their day even though it was like four or five hours that you were gone, you know, so I was doing that kind of juggle for a while and I would leave the house probably like 10:30. And my days are batched by the category of what I'm doing. So like Mondays and Tuesdays are usually like in office catch up days. Getting back to architects, having like conference meetings with whoever I need to meet about like you know, project updates, whatever. Wednesdays are in office, like zoom inquiry calls, talking to our accountant and anything that has to do with like a zoom like video conferencing situation, that's on Wednesdays. Cause I like to get that all out of the day. I don't like those days. Like I don't like Wednesdays, but that's why I put them all on the same day so I don't have to like break Up Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday with these tasks I don't like to do.
So I just time batch everything. And then on Thursday, it's kind of a combination. It's either a project site visit day where I'm going to like four or five projects and I'm in my car most of the day after I drop Brinky off at preschool. And then I'm either picking her up in between a site visit, dropping her off somewhere else, like my mom's house, and then going back to a site, visiting Manhattan beach and then coming. It's a lot of back and forth. Like, you know, it just depends on what the kid's schedule is that day, if there's a doctor's appointment. And right now I accept that I'm in this like season of just making it work because I have to. Because there's only so many people that like can help take care of your kid and that I trust and that I even want to help me, you know, again with the anxiety. I'm like, I don't really trust that many people. So I have to either do it or have my mom or I have my sister, but. Or we have a nanny who's part time, but it's really like a revolving door of help. And every week is a little different. I try and keep some sort of structure based on like that time batching I was mentioning, like site visit days or whatever, but really it's different. And it's just if she has tennis on Wednesday, pick her up, three o' clock, we go to tennis, I go home and then I'm. I'm working. Like, unfortunately I'm working at night from like 7 to 11 or 7 to 1am, you know, just depending on the season of projects we're in too, and the project load and what phase of the projects we're in.
[00:09:41] Speaker B: So at what point in the day or are you is like the end of the workday as far as your kids are concerned? And what point of the day are you? Like, we were just talking before we started, before we started recording. Like I always call it second shift that I start again at night. And so what. What does that afternoon evening kind of look like?
[00:09:58] Speaker A: Okay, so the end of the day for me is like usually 5pm at the latest. I try to make it like 4pm just because I. Again with the mom time and the mom math. It's like if I get home by four, I have three and a half hours before their bedtime and I really barely missed anything. I trying to make myself not feel bad. But I try and get home by five, like a hard stop. My husband sometimes beats me home. Like, he's so hands on and he owns his own businesses as well. But like, he is a very, very present dad. So it's really cool that we have that in common. Where we're both very focused on like spending those awake hours. Like parents use awake time because it's, you know, kids are napping or they're awake and he's there probably four or five. I'm there probably four or five as well. And then bedtime's around 7:30, so it's like two and a half hours of just being at home. I'm really trying not to be on my phone or like, do work stuff. Mostly because I don't want my kids seeing that just like. Or thinking that my work is more important than them or just like, oh, cool, Mom's always on her phone, therefore I want to have a phone. And always I don't want to model something that I don't want. Like unwanted behavior, you know, and of course, like, again, we're all human. And like if I get it's about a project, you know, like something happening at the project and it's an emergency, which it barely ever is. But I'll try and get back to it quickly if it's like in that five o' clock zone. But I rarely will answer a phone call or message if you're sending it like 7, 7:30, 8. No, I'm waiting till the next day to get back to you. And then that second shift of work starts at 7:30 when they go back down for like bedtime. Yeah.
[00:11:23] Speaker B: Okay. So many follow up questions. Sorry. I'm like, go, go, go. I have so many things. I'm just like picking your brain so much. First of all, I'm super interested in that batch scheduling concept. I've always been a big believer of it. I find it a lot harder to put into pract.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: Say it.
[00:11:39] Speaker B: Do you have any tips on like, how you really stick to it when obviously like your kids schedule aside, but just saying like, hey, I'm gonna book. All of my Zoom meetings are on Wednesday. How do you make sure that really happens when someone requests it on a different day? How flexible are you and how, how are you implementing that in a strategic way?
[00:12:00] Speaker A: Yeah. So I have a studio manager, Jenna, and she knows that Wednesdays now because we go back and forth and we're always kind of touching base every week. Like, what's working, what's not working? This feels like discombobulated. And not efficient to me. What do you think? And she's a very. Her, her natural skill set is just organization. And she's like, okay, Kim, like, let's just, let's just do everything on one day. So she kind of came up with that idea. And then I just, every time I would get an inquiry, I would just kind of forward it to her because we, we used upsado for our inquiry forms. And so anytime we get an inquiry, she automatically responds to them and just says, hey. She does inquiries on or inquiry calls on Wednesdays. There's no other day we throw out. We don't go, hey, but you know, I know you're in a hurry. It's like, no offense, but I don't care if you're in a hurry. Like, if that's. If you're in a really big hurry. Like, I have three kids under five. Okay? Like, I'm just trying to survive here. Like, that's my day. Okay? Take it or leave it. Like, I used to be super flexible and I am very client facing. I am very, like, client oriented, I should say. But if clients can't even wait for an inquiry call to be on a different day, if, like, that's already kind of like, well, maybe we're not going to be a great fit. Like, if you need things like this for yourself, then, then like, no offense, but I don't care about any project that much. Like, I care about. I care about projects a lot. I care about what I do. But I also, at this season of my life, I'm like barely surviving, right? I am, I'm just like trying to keep my head above water. I am going as fast as I can with as much efficiency as I can. So if, if someone wants it another day, like, tough luck. Sorry. That is the day that we do those zoom calls. And Jenna knows that I know it. I plan to be in the office on Wednesdays. That is my in office zoom day. So, you know, I just say no. And we, we reschedule. We say it nicely like, oh, sorry, that's the only day we do it, you know, so maybe try for a Wednesday or two from now. And with, with like site visits, for instance, I'm, I know that Mondays and Tuesdays are going to be filled with questions because we get emails over the weekend like, oh, did this come in receiving? We're talking about receiving warehouse stuff or the GCS questions. There's just a lot of pile up that happens over the weekends. And I do try and chip away at it, even though my Boundaries are that I don't work on the weekends. I just don't want clients to know that because I don't want to open myself up to them. They think that they can just take, take, take. Because, like, I'm not here for you to take from on the weekends. My kids are my priorities. Sorry, that's just how it is. Most reasonable people know that it's totally fine. It's not an issue most of the time, but we just kind of reinforce the same messaging over and over again. I'm really transparent. Like, I'm very nice person, but I'm very transparent and honest. So in inquiry calls, I kind of go through these things in our investment guide, in our welcome guide, all purchaser you guys like. And then I like tweak everything obviously to make specific to what we do and our proposals. Like everything has our office hours and like a nice little note of like, we do not work weekends. If there's an emergency, you can contact the studio email and we will get back to you. So I feel like by the third or fourth time you're seeing it, it's kind of ingrained in you. And because I am very giving in other ways with my clients, I think that they just know it's like a give and a take. Like I am there to make their life easier, the project more fun. I am there to, you know, create a beautiful design for their house. But I'm not there to like talk you off the ledge at 8 o' clock at night because you discovered a new design for the wet bar that you think is better than the current one. Like, we can talk about that tomorrow at 9:00am That's. This is not an emergency. It does not constitute as something that I want to muddy my waters with. Right now. My kids are pooping their pants over here and they're wiping on the walls. So, like, this is an emergency. Okay. Not that.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: You just talked about having really great systems and processes in place. A thank you for the shout out to idea.
[00:15:35] Speaker A: It's like a thousand percent true. Everything I learned about being a designer, I learned here, like, because I listened to every podcast three times, like literally. I'm not even joking. Not an exaggeration.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: You're the best. Thank you. One thing I wanted to backtrack a little bit on because I thought it was so smart, is doing all of your calls one day a week. I like to do the same thing when you're doing. So I feel like it's a really genius subtlety that you mentioned. If they're not willing to wait for the Wednesday that you book that that's another way to weed out the wrong projects. And I just wanted to like talk about that a little deeper. I know on the show we've talked about how on your inquiry form, I really prefer when we design websites that there's a dropdown of your budget and the smallest number in that budget is the smallest number you're willing to work with. So it's like a really kind way to guide someone. And I feel like this is really great as well, that if someone can't wait until next Wednesday or if that's booked the Wednesday after, then they probably, that is a flag and they're probably not going to be the best client for you and another designer would be happy to do that.
[00:16:40] Speaker A: So for sure, yeah. Some people will bend over backwards for their client and like I will to an extent when it comes to things that they absolutely need. Like, I am very much a people pleaser in my life and with my clients for sure. But I also have a low tolerance for like BS or entitlement. And so like, being a people pleaser and then having a low tolerance for BS is an interesting combination because I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, don't you dare. Like, I get really upset if like someone crosses that boundary with me. Obviously I don't explode on them. But I mean, like, mentally in my mind it does annoy me a lot. So I don't want to be in a two year relationship with a client who is going to exhibit those behaviors regularly. I've learned the hard way. And by the way, like, because I'm a people pleaser, I still have a hard time even sending those, like, I don't call them reject emails, but just like, hey, you know, this is not the best fit for us because I am afraid of offending people. I don't want people thinking like, oh, this is not a cool enough job or this is not, I don't have enough money. It's. There's an array of reasons why I wouldn't be able to take a project on at any given point. Most of the time. Generally it's because they want to start like yesterday. And I'm like, well, we have a waiting list, you know, and you have to get on, you have to get on the schedule because we're actively involved in our full service projects right now. But we have an opening in three to six months. Like, if that is not something you can wait for, I totally understand. Like, please do what's best for you. But it's It's a dance. It's, you know, it's a balance. And I'm always trying to find that balance for me. And when I can hop in, like, I'll offer virtual consultations and just say, hey, let's chip away at your design. If you really want my look and feel like of the eye that I offer, I can help you make these decisions in one hour. Virtual calls. But we're not gonna be able to provide you, like, elevations and construction drawings in this format, because that's what takes so much time too, you know.
[00:18:22] Speaker B: Brilliant. So I have one I like, I feel like this is a very, like, macro question before we get into all the micro questions, but how do you feel like your definition of success has changed since you became a parent?
[00:18:35] Speaker A: So, okay, so before I was a parent, I modeled full time for, like, 10 years. And then I became a designer, like, officially client facing, even though we were doing our own projects during that decade while I was modeling. Like, we did seven remodels in seven years, and I got a lot of experience doing. Yeah, that's like, a whole nother thing too, by the way, because I see your eyes, like, whoa, what the heck? So, like, I officially started doing interior design, like, client facing when my daughter was, like, six or eight months old. So, like, again, it's still not a new. It's not new, but it's not like, I've been doing this for 20 years, you know?
And so before, my definition of success was, like, booking big jobs with brands, like, getting, like, being busy all the time to show that I was, like, a successful model and to show that I wasn't, like, some, like, loser that couldn't book a job, you know, which, by the way, like, I.
It's like beast or famine in that industry anyway. So there's a lot of insecurity tied to what you're doing because you're always told that you're, like, never enough and you're too big, too tall, too broad, whatever. I was an athlete in college, so my success was, like, very much hinging on how much my agents liked me and how many jobs I got, how busy I was, how much money I was making when I had my first child, Frankie. And then I started pursuing design. Like, I was learning how to be a designer while I was learning how to be a mom. And those two things were extremely overwhelming for me, even though I was obsessed with both of them, like, could never have imagined the love and obsession that I would feel for a child I didn't even know. If I wanted to be a mom. And I, like, it was an oops. And then I was like, all right, let's do this. I have no other choice. And then, of course, now I have three kids, but. And then with the interior design, it was like my version of success is like, can I crack the code on this? Can I even get a client? I don't know. Like, I was having people reaching out because of my. You know, I had talked about doing my own project, seven jobs and or seven houses in seven years. And I, like, documented it, put on Instagram. Instagram. So that's how I kind of got my first initial clients. So I already kind of, in a way, like, I felt so overwhelmed with like, those like, amazing feelings that you have when you first have a baby of like, your life is just like, your brain is just like exploding with, like, you're so sentimental about everything and you're just like, how did I create this miracle? Like, how did this all happen? And you're going through this, like, existential season of your life. And at the same time, I'm starting this business. So to me, like, anyone believing in me, anyone wanting to hire me was. Was success to me because I. I took a step, like, out of my comfort zone because I was so miserable modeling. Like, I hated it so much. I was so unhappy. I felt so much like a loser because I wasn't succeeding in the way that I thought I should succeed or like, the pressure. I wasn't reaching my potential. I wasn't. I wasn't in love with it. I wasn't passionate about it. And so I just felt so low. And then when I had Frankie, and then I was like, you know what? Nothing is worth whatever this feeling is. Anything would be easier than feeling this way. So, like, feeling so badly about myself, anything felt easier than that. And even starting a new business and walking into showrooms where, you know, it's kind of intimidating walking in these high end showrooms in LA where you're like, I don't know the lingo, I don't know the verbiage. I don't even know to like, if you're like, oh, that's so pure fray. And you're like, yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. What did you just say? Like, you don't know. Like, I didn't know anything about anything. I just knew that I had a good eye and that people liked it because I had documented these seven big projects that I had done for our own homes. And we like to move. It's like a whole nother story. But yeah, my. My version of success is just that, like, anyone's buying into what I'm doing and that, like, that's on the, like, career front. And then with my kids, it's like I am spending time with them while they want to spend time with me. Because this is a very short season of my life and of their life. I do not want. I will not miss these moments because a client needed me, like, for something silly. Like, I refuse to miss these. This very short period of their life. You know, by being too busy or on the phone all the time or whatever, you think you could fill your time in so many ways. But as long as, like, they are getting.
They're getting me and they're getting time with me and they're knowing that I'm present and there for them, like, that is the success on the mom front and then just on the interior design front, it's just like that anyone wants me to work on their projects, I feel honored and humbled by it because I feel like I'm living my dream life. The fact that I'm able to do what I love to do and be hired and able to hire people, and it's kind of snowballed into this thing that I never knew it could be.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that, Kim. Also, thank you for the very timely transition. I want us to talk through.
What does your current team look like, if there is a team, and I know you've mentioned at least one person at this point, and what your company structure looks like today.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: Yes. So I have a studio manager, Jenna, who, again, just like, she does so much of the stuff that I don't either want to do or am not good at doing. Like, my brain is very creative. I don't want to be sending emails all day. And the amount of stuff that comes in, whether it's an inquiry call or getting back at the GC or talking with the receiving warehouse about this missing part. There's just so many things and so much noise that's attached to every project. She kind of clears all of that for me. So that's. To me, having, like a studio manager, like some sort of studio operations role is very important because that was like my missing link. And when I found her, I feel like my life significantly became less stressful. And then I have two drafters who do all of my technical drawings. And so there's the four of us. And then. And they're part time, they're contracted. Sometimes it's like very, very heavy design. Time during certain months when we're like in like heavy design phase. And then sometimes it's not as much.
And then I do have a fractional cfo. She just handles our accounting. And then we just, hi, this is not part of our like everyday team. But just people that I have if it's of interest to anybody. And then I just hired a social person because I wanted because I've been handling my social this whole time and I really love it. But it is like a full time job and it requires so much planning and really just being intentional about what I want to be putting out there. And she really, she's a referral through, you know, Renee Bush with Tandem. Okay. Yeah, so she's a referral through Renee. I love Renee and I do consultations with her for just business strategy like every few months and she was a recommendation. So anyways, that's kind of like I'm outsourcing the social as of this month because I, I was feeling like that was something that would kind of like my anxiety would start to rise when I was thinking about what I needed to post. I'm like, okay, I need to flag that. That's something I need to outsource at this point because we're getting too busy now for me to be like spending a day thinking about social media. I don't have a day, a week to do that same thing with like our accountant. Like the numbers are just getting too big now where we need to have someone that's like in studio because we use studio designer. Flushing through all the numbers and helping me to just be able to digest like profit, loss, all the different things you know.
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Something that you said that I think is just so smart and I really encourage everyone to practice is you're outsourcing the things that you don't like to do or the things that you aren't good at. But I think another way to look at it is that you're also outsourcing everything but what your clients are paying you to do. And so, for instance, with social or for instance, with bookkeeping, yes, that is all part of the service. That is part of marketing. But your clients are hiring you to design. And so you need to be available to whether that's oversee your team who's designing so that you get the last eyes on it, you're doing the designing, whatever it is that your clients are really coming to you for. I think that, and that's something I'm actually working through and processing in my own businesses right now is like, what are people actually calling us for me to be doing? And that I need to really consider is that how I want to spend my time? And is that the best use of my time? But I think that the way you've set that up is really helpful. I have a question about your contract. Technical drawers. How do you manage? You said that there's, like a real ebb and flow. Like, sometimes you guys are slammed or obviously when you're in the technical drawing phase of a project, that's heavier.
How do you maintain that relationship so that, like, they are available for you again, you need them? Because I feel, I struggle with, like, yes, this contractor can do this project, but they're like, not. They can't just sit around and wait for you to maybe have more work for them.
[00:27:41] Speaker A: Right? A hundred percent. So I have a couple backup drafters that I will utilize if my main two are not available. But they are available for me because I am one of their more like, I don't want to say demanding of their time, but, like, they work for a couple designers and I am giving them regular work. We're meeting weekly. They know to schedule it. They have said, like, I really like working on your projects because it maybe fits their aesthetic more. It's. It's more fun for them to draw these because it is, like, maybe a little more eclectic, maybe a little less, like, straightforward. And they're appreciating the design aspect of it. It's kind of like occupying and helping, like, fuel their creative side as well, even though they're just doing the CAD drawings. So it's a culmination of things. But again, like, transparency and just being super honest from the get go is like, I do not like surprises. I don't like to. I Wouldn't want to have to like find out like a weekend like, hey, where are my drawings? And then like, sorry, I don't have time to work on your projects right now. So I'm always like, do you have time for this? We have three projects that we're doing over the next eight months. I would like you to draw two of them. Do you have time to meet with me weekly? When will you be gone? I had a meeting at the beginning of the year with the whole team, all four of us, you know, like, as if that's like a ton of people. But like the four of us sat and just like for two hours, went through our schedules and I said like, do you have time for this? Because I'm looking to hire a full time person, but I don't want to take time away from what you're relying on. If you're relying on my projects, like it's. I just throw it out all, all under the table. I'm not afraid to have hard conversations because I. They're harder if you postpone them, you know. And like, I don't know if it's Brene Brown or someone, but she, in her, one of her books, it's like clear is kind like, it's, it's less kind to be vague and like not say the hard thing or ask the like direct question and then find out later that like, you know, it would have been so much easier if you just laid it all, all under the table prior. So I always ask them like, do you have time for this? Can you commit to this? I'm relying on you. I have other girls lined up. I will totally use them if I need to. And if you don't have time, no problem. Like if you're busy and you have kids or whatever, please just let me know. So I know how to plan my year because at this point I'm planning my years. You know, I'm kind of like, we have this many projects. I know this will take me to next spring. I'm mentally kind of like, this is how it needs to operate if I'm using you and if I'm not using you, no big deal, but just let me know, you know.
[00:29:55] Speaker B: So one thing I heard you say there is like, okay, we're looking at the whole year. We know that we are taking on three new projects. And obviously this is not like legal advice or anything or HR advice, but are you. So are you signing them per project or are you signing them with a commitment to X number of hours or like monthly flat Rate or it's like.
[00:30:15] Speaker A: I probably should do that, but I don't. It's more like I. Yeah, it's not per project. It's just by the amount of hours they have for me. Mostly because they like the freedom too. And I think we had this conversation of, like, I wanted to. I think I had this conversation in January when we had our meeting, like, do you guys want me to sign you onto projects? And I think they were like, well, we're good to commit to you, but like, I don't. They want the freedom too, to be able to go to like Europe for a month or two. That's the whole point of what, what, doing what they do is being contracted and kind of like being freelance so that they can control their schedule and we zoom when they're on vacation. But I. I think the whole point of it is they like the flexibility too. And so I just kind of take their lead on that. And it's been working for us so far.
[00:30:58] Speaker B: Amazing. Last question on the contractor. Technical drawers. Are they local to you or are they all remote?
[00:31:04] Speaker A: They're local, but they might as well be remote because, like, we mostly zoom in. Although I just. So I'm in the search for a senior right now. A senior or junior or a highly experienced junior or a senior. So we'll see. Like, I'm using a recruiter, actually, because I. I've interviewed like six people and I'm like, this isn't really working. I need to. I need to like, have someone that really knows what they're doing in terms of like, searching and have, have the contacts. But I really am feeling overwhelmed by being like, well, in motherhood and in business, just like the keeper of all the information. Like, it's all living in my brain at all times. And I am exhausted by being the one that has to constantly, like, be at the site, visit, remember all the changes that we're making, make sure to make note. And then, you know, communicate them to my drafter, communicate them to the GC and making sure everyone has the most up to date information. It's exhausting and it's very difficult. And it makes me. That's the thing that makes me feel the most stressed out in this, in this role, because there's thousands of details per project, you know, and if we're doing six projects at a time, that's a lot of information in my brain. In addition to preschool signups and tennis camp and all the things that pertain to my children, which are more important to me, but they're Just different categories. Right. So I'm. I'm trying to find someone that can kind of be the keeper of that information and, like, be really autonomous and independent so that they can just. There's experience enough to be able to know. Know what to do with that information, make the changes they need to, and communicate with the GC so that I don't have to be involved. So I started using one of my drafters for, like, site visits recently because she offered that, because, again, she could make those changes in AutoCAD, like, right when she gets home. And it's, it's taking me out of the equation where I don't have to be the. The middleman communicating unnecessarily. You know, I'm really trying to minimize anything that requires me or, like, I'm trying to. I'm trying to minimize any, like, unnecessary work for myself by cutting myself out of the equation when I can. I just am learning now, like, okay, you know what? Don't need to be at every site visit. I can have someone. I can have a project manager do that. And I need to find a project manager that might be someone that's in a senior designer role or a highly experienced studio designer or just hiring a project manager, and that's their role. So that's kind of the dance of, like, figuring out what that position is. So I'm interviewing for all of them, and it's going to be more of a personality fit, I think, because that was the thing that I've had the hardest time is finding someone that I like want to be with that much. That sounds bad, you know, but they're going to be like my right hand, so they need to be like someone I enjoy.
[00:33:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I was curious, as you were describing that, why you decided, and it sounds like you aren't necessarily decided, but on that, being a super senior junior designer or a senior designer, when what it sounds like is a project manager. So it's interesting that you're like, I'm kind of exploring all roles and it'll depend on having the right fit.
[00:33:55] Speaker A: Like, because I have a lot of friends who are designers now because I'm, you know, just as you go to more events, you get connected people, whatever. And I have some friends that, like, run businesses with 15 seniors. And I've heard kind of the nightmare stories there and the benefits of that, you know, where they can be more hands off. And then I have other friends of mine that I've met, like, at, like, dinners where, you know, a brand is taking us all to dinner. Or whatever. And they only have contracted project managers and contracted technical drafters, but they themselves are the only one that does the creative. And that's kind of how I see my firm running. I'm trying different things, and I'm exploring. I'm taking my time. I think it's. It's. It was on one of your podcasts, but, like, hire slow, fire fast, right, you guys? Yeah. Like, I really want to take my time here because I don't want to have to fire someone. And if I do have to fire someone, it's got to be, like, right away so that I'm avoiding as much messiness as possible, and I want to protect my peace. And I get very rattled by these, like, interpersonal things if I have to, people manage. And I don't like this dynamic at work. It's going to come with me to my house. It's going to, you know, it's going to show itself in my home life, because I will carry that stress with me. So I'm trying to be very diligent and thoughtful about my next hire, but I've just been told so many different things from different people. Like, no, you need a senior. You need a senior that you can pass it all along to and give them that whole responsibility. You're going to buy back your time by having a senior. And then some people are like, no, you don't really need a senior for that. Like, a junior designer will kind of listen to you more and not demand being the full creative, because seniors might want to have more creativity than you're willing to give them. So I'm just going to interview all the different positions and then see through, like, very clear, transparent conversations so everybody knows what I'm looking for. Like, are you good with that or not? You know, so we're starting that next week, so we'll see.
[00:35:44] Speaker B: I'll have to follow up and see how that goes. I'm curious, with your very conscious decision to keep your studio small, what led you there? Like, what. What does small mean? Like, what you say. You don't really want to have to manage people. That. That's not the goal. So what would your perfect team be made up of?
[00:36:02] Speaker A: Okay, so, like, when I say small, I mean, like, at this season of my life with the little children, like, being in the weeds, I cannot. It's. It's a survival thing. I cannot.
I don't think I can handle having to hire that many new hires and take on more projects and put more on my plate. I feel like there's not even a square inch left of my brain to, like, there's no more room in there for me to take on more responsibility, more, more anything. So it's more of a survival thing. Like, I'm not saying that forever I'll be small. I'm saying that for right now, I have no desire to be bigger than I am because I feel like I'm in a sweet spot. Like, we're growing, we're getting really great inquiries for amazing projects.
The projects that we're like, finishing and installing and photographing, they're beautiful. They're creating movement for me and they're creating opportunity for me. So I feel like the amount of momentum that I've had over the last, like, even year with just the opportunities we've gotten with different publications and like, you know, on camera stuff and like, I'm really happy with the pace. I could take on more of that, but then that would mean again, I'm hiring, which takes time. I'm people managing, which takes time. And I don't want to be a slave to my payroll obligation. I don't want that. I know myself. I know that that stress would.
Would feel overwhelming to me at this season of my life because I, again, I don't really feel like I have an ounce left to give. You know, like, not to say, like, it's all dire or anything. Like, I love it. I love the season of life I'm in, but it is very demanding. It's just a lot. And so I have to pick and choose. And it's. It's strictly out of necessity. Like, there's no more for me to give. So therefore I'm not really looking to expand. I also like the quality of projects we're able to do by me focusing on a smaller amount. So we do like four to six projects at a time. Right now it's six and it's kind of. It's trying to tip over into 7, 8. But I'm trying to keep it at keeping it at 6. So at least we could finish a couple of them before we start the two new ones. But we're able to focus more on the details and I think I would just be fine fearful because I'm not going to ever hand off the creative 100%. That's the only reason I do what I do. Like, I'm not technically trained, I didn't go to school. So what else would I do if I didn't do the creative? It's the only thing I like to do. I don't like doing the like finances or studio designer stuff. Like I don't like emailing and being, you know what I mean, what else would I do?
So, and that is what people hire me for. So if I hired more people and took on more jobs, but still I'm doing all the creative. If I had more jobs, it would just be more. I'm protecting my peace is what I'm trying to say. I'm just trying to only bite off what I can chew because I've, I've bitten off more than I can chew and handle. And it was, it was such a stressful season of my life. Like this was a couple years ago and it was awful. I was so stressed out all the time and I hated that feeling. So it's out of necessity.
[00:39:02] Speaker B: Speaking of out of necessity, I'd really like to talk about delegation and delegation, both professionally and personally. You've mentioned that you are lucky to have family nearby, which helps with childcare, but that you also have a part time nanny. You've mentioned the things that you're outsourcing in the company.
How did you, how did you get to the point where you were like, okay, I have to ask for help?
[00:39:29] Speaker A: In what regard? Like what? Have to ask for help, like in my company or like at home, like home life stuff. I mean, I feel like again, you just hit a tipping point. Like I am one of those people that like, I feel like if you want it done right, you gotta do it yourself. And so every time I'm seeking help, it's all, only, it's only in the 11th hour where I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm either gonna go bald from losing my hair. So if I want hair by this time next year, I better like find a person to do that. Or like I'm like, I can't handle more, you know, so it's always in the 11th hour. My husband would be like, if the house is messy, just hire a housekeeper. Like, why are you just like, have someone come and clean? But like, again, I'm kind of a control freak. So I've tried my best to outsource in the way that I can, but it's this balance too. Like, I don't want my kids seeing that we have like, like I, I have this weird thing because I didn't grow up with having the ability to have like a housekeeper every week or, you know, so I, and I value what that did to me as a kid. Like, I valued everything that I was given. I'm one of five kids. I don't Want my kids seeing, like, someone clean up after them. I don't want. We could. My nanny is available to be full time. I don't want to have a nanny full time because I don't want my kids thinking that they were raised by this amazing woman who is now like family, but we're paying her, you know. So I'm trying to also find this balance in, like, our current, the world that we live in of, like, my kids to have a strong sense of family, a strong sense of home and responsibility.
So I'm having to fight some of my, like, my nature because I do want my house to be clean all the time. I would love it if I had a housekeeper come three hours a day. I would love that. But then I'm also kind of like, I want them to learn how to clean up after themselves, and I want them to see that I'm cleaning up, like, our house. I'm not always paying someone to do everything that we don't want to do. So I don't know. It's. I don't know if I have a great answer for that because I'm only hiring people when I really feel like there's no other option for me to maintain, like, my sanity and my mental health and just be happy because I find myself getting stressed out at home because it is. Is very messy. You have a four month old and I'm sure there's like, still kid stuff everywhere, but as they get older, they. They accumulate more and more and more. And my very, like, beautiful home is now just like a zoo with its toys. So, like, it's this. It's this balance of just like hiring someone when you absolutely need them, but still trying to instill, like, work ethic and, you know, all that stuff to my kids. I don't know, it's. It's really hard for me. I haven't figured it out, but I try and like, treat myself here and there so that I can feel sane, like get my hair done and stuff like that. I'm not gonna, like, make a point and go gray just so that my kids are like, the value of a dollar. Mom doesn't do her hair.
[00:42:12] Speaker B: You brought up Renee from Tandem earlier, who's a good friend of mine. I just did a fun little girls trip to New York with her where we were really talking about my business and becoming a mom. And it was my first time away from Cam, and she just really helped put a lot of things into perspective. But she was talking about delegation and she. She really excels at thinking about how does your business get to.
And so she was really coaching me on, okay, there are X amount of things in the day that you're doing and you need to sit there and decide because right now business is slow, IDCO is slow. And so we're like, we need, I want to keep my team. I don't want to have to let anybody go. How, how do we make more money? And she's like, well, you need to think about what you're doing in the day and what is taking up your time. And she's like, how long does it take you to get ready in the morning? I'm like, well, if I worked out the night before, I got to do a full, you know, dry my hair, full wash the whole thing, blah, blah. She's like, okay, and how much does your hair guy cost when you get a blowout? I was like, mind you, I'm sorry Wes, you're so cheap. But he's 25 bucks. And yeah, no, no. And so she's like, okay, well how much does your one hour cost versus that $25? And so she started doing a lot of like cost analysis on things like grocery shopping and those other things of like, if you have such a finite amount of time, what are the things that you're willing to delegate? What are the things that are not going to affect your child's upbringing and, and sense of responsibility and contributing citizenship sort of thing, as you were saying? And there are so many things that I think, especially as women and business owners, we aren't giving ourselves permission to outsource when doing those things would allot you more time with your kids if you weren't having to do that for work or for your personal time. And so I love the fact that you're like, I do get to ask for help from my family and we do have a part time nanny. It is very much intentionally a part time nanny. Whether that's because you don't want them raised entirely by a nanny, whether obviously other people have financial reasons they can't have a full time nanny, all the other reasons. But to be thinking about, hey, what are the tasks in your day outside of your actual workday that could be delegated that aren't going to make your life infinitely better because you were the one who was doing it. And Renee really opened my eyes to that because I was like, oh, I'm not going to pay someone to dry my hair. And she's like, but actually look at what the trade off is. And so, long story short, west down does My hair. So, okay, okay.
[00:44:42] Speaker A: So I saw on Instagram because I don't go on TikTok because I don't know how to log in because I'm 37 and I'm old now. But there's a place in Dubai, like, really sharp left turn really quickly from the conversation. But they will do your nails and your highlights and do a blowout for you. And I think they'll probably shave your legs for you, Honest. If you want them to do. It's like an. It's like all in. Like, they do everything. I think maybe you could even get, like a spray tan at the same time. I don't know. But it looks pretty amazing. And I'm like, if only they offered that here. I would pay a pretty penny for them to do all of those things at once, because I don't get it knocked out in a day. I don't like the me stuff, but I do like to look a certain kind of way and, like, feel put together. Because the number one thing that got me back to feeling like myself after my kids was always, like, doing my hair, putting makeup on, getting a real outfit on. Not, like, going braless with, like, my ugly, like. Like pajamas with holes in them, you know, that I'm like, no one will see. But I'm like, have some pride, Kim. Have some pride. So, no, I support that 100%. It's hard to find here, though. We live in a suburb, so there's like, not as many, like, blowout places. You know, I could go to the dry bar and, like, get my hair fried off. But, like, I mean, I love the dry bar. No offense to anyone that goes there. It's just the one here is not that great in Torrance anyways. You can take this out if you want to.
Don't want to piss off any people that could have drive our Torrance.
[00:45:54] Speaker B: What advice would you give to someone who feels a level of guilt or indulgence? Outsourcing things like laundry or meal planning or admin tasks at home. This is something that you are very conscientious of and you've opted out of it. Can you talk to us about how you feel?
I'd like to hear more about how you're making the strategic choice to not opt into those things. Or, you know, maybe some of them. I don't know. Know. I don't know if you instacart, but.
[00:46:21] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, it's not by any means. My kids would not notice if I walked in, like, holding like, 17 grocery bags or If I, like, grabbed them at the gate and took the grocery bags in, we for sure. Instacart. Like, I'm not against.
It's more of just the things that I really like that really, like, registered with me. As a kid, my parents had someone clean the house every once in a while, and it was a big treat. It, like, but for the most part, we had how, like, we cleaned the house on Fridays and we would get to go to yo. Yogurt land did not exist. Tcby, the country's best yogurt, if anyone remembers. TCBY in San Pedro. Cause that's where we lived. And that was our gift, like, for our treat for Clean House Day. We just called it Clean House. A very innovative name for cleaning the house. It's Clean House Day every Friday. And it really instilled responsibility in me. So there are certain things that really registered with me as a kid. Those are more the things that I'm trying to.
To encourage my kids to do. Like, hey, would you mind helping me clean this up? Because, you guys, this is your mess, but I'm going to help you, but will you. So it's not that I'm like, trying to be like, I'm above that. And I won't. No, no, no, no. I will Instacart, like, for sure. And I. I do have someone that help helps clean the house. I think we have her every other week, like, twice a month. I'm more just thinking, like, I could literally be so happy with someone coming every day and, like, there I could seek more help because it would ease my mental load and it would significantly help me. But that's when I say I'm kind of just, like, walking that, like, tightrope of, like, certain things. I defer that gratitude for myself because I want my kids to. To also feel some sort of responsibility in cleaning up after themselves and helping me with the laundry, even if they're not, but just making them think that they are. You know, I. I get my eyebrows tinted. I get my. I like, I do all the things for myself. I am by no means going to sacrifice those things. Like, no, no, no, that can't happen because it's too important for me. Like, the way I feel, it means a. Like, it helps me feel more pulled together. And when I feel good and I, like, feel like I have, like, a cute outfit on, I act more confidently and I feel more prepared for the day, you know, so I'm not going to sacrifice those things, but not at all against, like, I just feel like maybe I'M not as innovative or like creative to come up with like life hacks, like for people to help me. Maybe, you know, maybe I just don't know what my options are. Tell me what my options are and I'll do it.
[00:48:47] Speaker B: What are, what were, what was the first thing you outsourced in your business?
[00:48:50] Speaker A: Well, the drafting. Because I, I, I took AutoCAD for six months during COVID because that is when Frankie was born. 20 she was March 2020 is when she was born. So like right when Covid started, that's when I had Frankie like seven days into Covid starting. They were like, you better get induced or else you won't have your husband, you know, in the hospital room. So super intense time and we're all locked down and I was renovating like our sixth home that we had lived in at that time and you know, never thought that this would be my career career and started getting inquiries from other people like, hey, like, would you mind helping move my house? I'm like, well, I don't really know how to like do elevations and stuff. Like, I didn't know how to do any of that, that, you know, any of those drawings. So I took, I took a, a online, not an online course. I had a private tutor over zoom for drafting for six months and I felt like I got pretty good at it. But even still, like, it took me three times the amount of time to draw a kitchen that than it would like the person I hired to do my elevations. So again with the time and like understanding, like, where is my time most valuable? I haven't almost have a 6 month old, so I can be spending 10 hours drawing this kitchen that doesn't even look that great. Or I can ask Bridget to do it and she's going to do it in an hour and send it back to me very quickly. She knows how to organize. She knows every standard depth and dimension. I'm still learning all that stuff, you know, because like, oh, the countertop should be this. All the things that you don't really even, that don't even register with you when you're starting something new. But she knew it all. And I felt like, you know, this is a waste of my time because she's so affordable, like $60 an hour to draw this kitchen in an hour or two, you know, so that, that had to be my first, my first like outsourcing hire because I didn't know how to do it in a timely manner. And it was just again, I was learning how to be a mom and I was learning how to be a designer. At the same time, there was not enough capacity to do both well, if I wanted to take on every role and every responsibility that it, that it took to be a good designer. I did consider going back to school at one point and I was like, like signing up for like UCLA design. I was like starting to apply and my husband just kept saying, like, go to school by taking on projects. Say yes.
Don't like, don't pay for schooling because you're just gonna get a lot of, like, you're gonna get a lot of like book, like book smarts about this thing. But you need, you need your hands in it. You need to be having this practical experience. And you have a lot of practical experience because we had done seven houses in seven years. So he was really encouraging in that sense. And to just like really figure out what you're the best at and anything that you were not good at, you have to start outsourcing. So I just started charging clients for that time. I never marked it up. I wasn't at that. Like, I didn't have the strategy at that point to know how to charge clients, you know, appropriately. But I still just, I passed that, that cost onto them and they were happy to pay it because they needed the elevations and the drawings for the projects we were doing.
[00:51:38] Speaker B: You have mentioned in the show a couple times that like, getting fully dressed and like getting yourself ready and quote unquote, presentable in the day has really helped you feel like yourself as a mom and as a business owner. Honestly, you feel like some days even just running a business, you're like, can I even brush my hair? What else does self care look like for you in this season of life, which I know is very finite and precious and your time is completely delegated. Are there any other ways that you are carving out you time in your days?
[00:52:10] Speaker A: So like, other than like the beauty things that I like, it takes me forever to schedule a facial. You know, all the things that I say, like I'm gonna be better at that and so I don't have wrinkles or whatever. I'm not very good at that stuff. I put it off to the last again, eleventh hour because I don't like sitting there and getting my hair done. All the things. But like the, the, the practices, I should say that make the most difference for me outside of get. I mean, I will say getting dressed and like spending time just feeling like I'm putting myself together, that's like the single most important thing for myself, to be honest with You. But I will take long drives. Like, I'll go get a coffee and I do this weekly and I'll just take long drives. Listening to one of your podcasts or just like worship music or something that like, makes me feel just calm. Something that, like, if I'm listening to something educational that has to do with, you know, my business and I'm learning from it, that calms me because I feel like I'm like working and solving problems by listening to other business owners being like, oh, this is what I do. You should try it. I'm like, oh, that's genius. And so I make a big effort multiple times a week. If I want to go get like a Matcha, I'll just take like the coast to Manhattan beach or something instead of getting one down the street in Redondo time by myself in my car where I don't have kids around me or I'm. But like, where there's no one talking to me. Just because being alone in your thoughts is something that you don't realize kind of goes out the door when you have kids.
But I don't remember, like, being at home where I can actually just like think through problems that doesn't happen anymore because there's a lot of noise and there's like a lot of questions. Mommy, can you help me with this? Mommy, can you help me with that? And it's amazing and it's great. I'm not complaining about it, but it is a big change from when you don't have kids. You have a lot of time to think about the things that you dream and scheme in your future.
And working through a problem at work or whatever, it requires silence to do that, you know, and if you're always being the person that's solving everyone's problems or kissing their boo boos because they fell or whatever the case, it can be very frustrating. Like, I get really frustrated when I'm like even preparing for a podcast. Like, oh, I really want to talk about this. Or I really want to make sure I hit this, because I would want to hear that if I were listening, you know, and my kids are like screaming in the car and I'm just like, oh my gosh, I would love to just be alone right now. So when I can like carve out time to just be alone and being in silence or listen to something that kind of like fills my soul, that is the best self care for me. I keep saying I'm gonna start working out. I haven't gotten there yet because working out for me Is like, I'm either not hanging out with my kids. Cause I would have to do that in the morning during my kid time, like, like quality time with my children, or I'd have to do it during the day when I don't have time. Cause I'm working. I'm already working, like every night, you know, in my bed. And so certain things have to get tabled and that's fine. But if I was in a different season of life, I would also say working out is like a way that I kind of like, treat myself because it really, I. I mentally process a lot when I'm working out or when I'm like driving by myself.
[00:55:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that very actionable step of maybe you just go to your other coffee, favorite coffee place that's a little bit further just to buy yourself a little more quiet time.
[00:55:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like 25 minutes. And I'm like, okay, that's 50 minutes where I get to just like work through all these problems. And it's important for me. Cause I'm very verbose. But sometimes I just need to like, quiet, you know, my mind, so I can figure these things out.
[00:55:28] Speaker B: Kim as we get ready to wrap up the show, there's a few questions I'd love to leave our listeners with. What encouragement would you offer to other creatives, specifically designers, of course, in this season of life who want to grow a business but are deep in the trenches of motherhood right now.
[00:55:46] Speaker A: So I guess it depends on, like, where they're at in that process. If they're like a new business owner, like first five years, like me, or even the first year of their new business. I would just say that don't look around and see what everyone else is doing and get discouraged by the comparison game because it's so easy to get, like a little jealous or a little frustrated that you're not getting as much notoriety or you're not getting published or, you know, you're not getting as much attention or followers or whatever the case. We live in this world where social media kind of rules everything and you take your worth sometimes, like by how many comments you got in your last post or why isn't this doing better? And I thought this project was great, but I'm not getting as much response from it as I thought I would. There's so many things just like, stay the course and do you. I know that sounds so like, trite and obvious to just like, just do you and be yourself. But I will say for me, the thing that is, I feel like, attributed the most to my success. Whatever success, you know, I have at this point in my career is that I am. I am kind of unapologetically myself because it's hard for me to be anything other than myself. And I feel like that's been helpful. You know, I don't apologize for being, like, too wordy and making jokes and laughing at whatever, you know, laughing at my own. Whatever I say, like, I am myself. People know what they're gonna get when they come to me for design. They're seeing what they're getting on my Instagram, and I am. I'm. I'm not worried about, like, what every other designer is doing. And if my stuff is too eclectic or too modern or too this or too. It's what I like. It's what I'm drawn to. And I would just say, like. Like, do you put your head down, don't worry about it, and just keep consuming as much as you can. And if you're in your first couple years of business, this is the time to say yes to everything, even if you don't want to do it. And I know boundaries are important, blah, blah, blah. But you need to kind of go through the fire to understand what you're working with and to, like, get those bruises and kind of dust yourself off and be like, okay. After that two years, you're kind of like, okay now. I feel like I kind of know what I'm doing. I have my bearings a little bit. I feel like I was. It was in my third year of business and that I was like, I finally feel like I understand how this works and how I should structure pricing and all that, you know? But you're not going to just learn that overnight. You have to say yes, and you have to get projects under your belt in order to showcase what you can do. And I would also say photograph with a professional photographer, an interior photographer, if you're an interior designer. If you're doing a different creative career.
[00:58:04] Speaker B: I'm not.
[00:58:04] Speaker A: You know, still, principles still apply, but specifically for interior design, like, photograph what you're doing. Don't go, I don't have the money for that. Because if you're not photographing it, people aren't even knowing that you can do anything. Because we live in a visual world. It's either what's on your website or on your social that people hire you from. So make sure that you're, like, investing in yourself in that way.
[00:58:25] Speaker B: What advice, in hindsight now, would you give to designers who are running a thriving business but are wanting to start a family. And I know that yours happened congruently, but in hindsight, what would you advise to those who are like, hey, me. This is kind of. We talked about it before we started recording. Quinn and I got to the point after 10 years of building the business that I'm like, either we're going to have a baby or we're not. And we have to decide. Now, what advice do you have to those.
[00:58:52] Speaker A: Okay, so, like, my. It's. It's kind of like twofold, because I would say do it a hundred percent. Do it if it's on your mind and you want it. Like, that is the most important thing. Like having a family, building your family, investing in your family for your future. Obviously, nothing should come before that, but this would be the time to be intentional about, like, how big or small you want your company to be. Because I do have a bunch of friends who are moms that have larger companies, and they're kind of. I swear it's all happening at the same time. I've had this conversation with, like, six of my girlfriends that are also interior designers, and all of them are in the season of life where they're like, I wish I could go back to being smaller, because now every month is just stressful because I have this obligation to my payroll, and I'm not feeling like, as passionate about the jobs we're doing. Yes, of course I love my clients. Yes, of course I love my employees. But they don't want to fight. They don't want to fire people, you know, and they grew fast because they're amazing designers, and they have this demand, and it's great.
But balance is the key when you have kids. You have to find the balance because it will there. You can't really, like, neglect that because it will happen to you. So either you kind of plan for it, or it's going to, like, smack you in the face and you're going to be unprepared. So I would just say, like. Like, be really intentional about what your goals are and what you want. And, you know, it'll work itself out, but it all works out every. There's like, every couple years, it's a new season, and you kind of restructure and everything. Like, you know, it. It shakes up anyways, and you. And every. All the pieces fall to where they're supposed to fall. So it's. There's no perfect formula, and you'll figure out what works best for you and your family. But just. Just. You have to be intentional when you Have a family when you have kids, because it's either going to happen to you or you're going to. Of plan for it, you know?
[01:00:33] Speaker B: Yeah. When Quinn and I were. To clarify, Quinn always wanted to be a dad, but he was very supportive of it being my decision because apparently I was going to contribute a lot to. To the. To it. And the. The best advice I had gotten from anyone is from my dear friend Parker. And he said, you know, you guys have two paths ahead of you right now, and either path leads to a very happy life. And down either of those paths, you're always going to mourn the loss of the other, whether you didn't take the time to start your family and you made it a choice because you didn't want a family. I'm not saying everybody wants a family or vice versa. You started your family and you're like, gosh, it was so nice when I had that quiet time to think about those things. And it was just like the truest, most helpful advice for me to consider. And it really pushed us to decide, no, I know which of those paths I don't want to have happen. But I think another thing that was so helpful that Bria Hamill had actually mentioned. I can't remember if it was on our episode or of the podcast, or it was one. We were at dinner, but she had said that there actually isn't a balance. People who say that, like, work, family, life is a balance, she's like, that's not true. There's seasons. There's seasons and there's cycles that you have to be putting more energy into one thing than another. And I think that that was a really helpful piece of kind of permission to remind myself that, like, yeah, right now, while Cam is not able to roll over, maybe I can have a little bit more time that I can dedicate to work. Because she's just laying there chilling. And then when I have. When she's, you know, your kids ages, when she's. When she's more aware of whether Mom's around or not, then, yeah, work's gonna have to be a little bit quieter then. So I really appreciate how you've put all of that, that it's like you have to decide what your priorities are, and if you can think ahead and decide how large or small you want that firm to be or your participation in that firm, I think that that's really, really important to start to consider because. Because scaling down is a lot harder than scaling. It's a lot harder.
[01:02:32] Speaker A: Exactly. And I. Yeah, none of Us want to fire anybody. Like that's not what we're doing this job for is to people manage or you know, that's, that's so awful. I've, I've only had to do it one time and it was, it literally I got like hives from it. It just, it, it just took over my whole body because it was so unpleasant. I do not desire that. I really like, I do feel like even though I'm saying I'm not sure in the future I believe I'll always want to be small, but I'm giving my, myself permission to like grow and evolve and hey, Maybe I'll have 50 people that work here. I highly doubt it. But like, I don't know what the future holds. But right now I again like protecting my peace and enjoy. I want to enjoy my life. Like I want to enjoy what I do. I want to enjoy my home life with my kids. I don't want to be thinking about the 17 projects I'm doing. When people say that they have 17 projects going on at one time where they have 15 employees, I'm like, I can't even comprehend that. Like my brain does not compute those numbers. Like, I don't know how you got to be that big. Good for you. Amazing. Like I'm impress stressed, you know, but for me it's not what I want. I want to enjoy the projects, I want to enjoy my life, I want to enjoy my kids, I want to enjoy my husband. And I already feel very stressed by it. But like again, yeah, I'm not going to be able to have all of the balance right now. But it's going to be like this tight rope walk, tightrope walk and this like this little bit of a dance probably until the kids go to college. And I have accepted that because my, I'm one of five kids and that was my parents entire existence. It's like every year or two we're doing a whole new schedule because this one's in this sport and this one's. I know that, you know, so it's just being, being okay with being flexible and being okay with not being able to control my life in the same way that I used to it. And like that's fine. It is what it is. You know, what else am I going to do?
[01:04:14] Speaker B: Kim, final question. You know, I always like to ask, do you have any big exciting projects, potential collabs, anything else that you're working on professionally that you can give us a little teaser of?
[01:04:26] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. So Waterworks asked me to do their window display at LCDQ this year, which is like design week. So I'm so excited because, like, oh, my gosh. I mean, the people that have done it in the past, I'm like, I feel like I'm in good company. So that was a big honor for me because I use Waterworks on so many projects and they're such, like, a global brand that I was just. I, like, peed my pants. I thought it was so cool. And then our project that we just shot with Jenna Peffley is. Is going to be published. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say where, but it's in a big publication that we. That I'm, like, very stoked to be in. And I feel like that'll be coming out next month, but I don't know if I can say so. I probably should.
[01:05:03] Speaker B: No, you can say this won't air until it's out.
[01:05:06] Speaker A: Oh, okay. It's going to be 80 Mexico. But I'm not sure. I'm not sure if it's going to be, like, in a month or two months that it comes out. So I'm not sure how it lines up with the podcast, but we'll email. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that'll be really fun. I'm super excited.
[01:05:20] Speaker B: Well, Kim, it was so, so great to chat with you. Thank you for talking about this super personal topic that I know resonates with a good portion of our listeners and possibly to those who don't know it resonates yet. So I just really appreciate all of your insights and your candor and just like, how freaking hard it is, but how amazingly rewarding it is too.
[01:05:39] Speaker A: It is.
[01:05:40] Speaker B: Thank you.
We will talk soon. Kim, thanks so much.
[01:05:43] Speaker A: Okay, thanks, Anastasia.
[01:05:46] Speaker C: For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more, don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes or at patreon.com forward/the interior collective. Thank you so so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations.
A big, huge thank you to our production team at IDCO Studio. And Quinn made your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always, always accessible. Until next time. I'm Anastasia Casey, and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living.
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