[00:00:12] Speaker A: Hey. Welcome back to the Interior Collective podcast, a podcast for the business of beautiful living. Hosting conversations with leading interior designers from around the world about the intricacies of the design business. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey, founder of IDCO Studio. Quinn made the Interior Collective and co host of the biannual industry event Design Camp. Today we are diving deep into the world of custom luxury home builds with none other than Tyler Farrell, founder and CEO of Killowing Construction. As an experienced general contractor, Tyler has built a reputation for bringing exquisite custom homes to life in and around Salt Lake City, Utah. Many of you probably recognize his work from Netflix's huge series Dream Home Makeover, where he collaborated with interior designer Shay McGee to transform homes in truly stunning ways over four seasons. In this episode, we'll be talking to Tyler about how interior designers can better prepare for working with contractors on custom new builds. Covering everything from securing accurate bids, managing budgets, and how to value engineer designs without sacrificing style. Tyler brings a wealth of knowledge and a world of humility. So get ready to learn invaluable tips on making your next big project a safe, seamless success.
We are so excited to invite you to dive deeper into the Interior Collective Podcast. Episodes now on Patreon unlock access to in depth analysis, helpful downloads and worksheets created with each podcast episode. Subscribers gain behind the scenes access to additional resources like examples and screenshots of guest spreadsheets, construction documents, and so much more. Your subscription also gets you immediate access to our private community of interior designers and our team of industry experts ready to answer your questions. Subscribe
[email protected] the Interior Collective or linked in the show Notes. Join the Interior Collective Patreon community and let's continue this conversation.
Hello and welcome to the show. Tyler, I'm so excited to get to chat with you again. We got to meet for the first time back in August at Design Camp and I just absolutely fell in love with you and your business process and how you handle your company and your family relationship. So it's a huge honor to have you on the show.
[00:02:26] Speaker B: Well, thank you very much. I'm honored to be invited. It was great meeting you guys too. You'll remember I was liking my feelings and that, like, I got all emotional. I just. I love my job and I love what I do. I have a little bit of imposter syndrome where it was like, oh, designers actually care what I think, you know? So it's cool. I had a really, really good time out there and I hope I can go back someday.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: Yes. I think actually Lindsay has an email going out to you this week. I think we're going to try to make that happen. But I. There was so much we talked about at Design Camp, but I'll always stay at Design Camp. But the biggest thing I really wanted to dive in here to today is the bidding process and, like, just transparency behind that and what to expect when working with a contractor. And today we're really going to be focusing on working with new build luxury homes, because that is really where your specialty is. I know that you started doing powder baths and little remodels, and you're in a different place now, but I think just to keep it as concise as we can in an hour, let's go ahead and talk about kind of where you're handling business today.
[00:03:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Because there's. There's so many different models to do it. Right. And I can only speak on how we do it. Doesn't mean there's only one good way to do it. But this way sure works for us.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: I think what I learned most from you when we chatted at camp was just like the different caliber of process you guys operate under. You were just blowing minds left and right, and everybody was like, we only want to work with you. So let's go ahead and start digging into that. Walk us through what your bidding process looks like and what specific factors are you taking into account when creating a bid for a custom home project.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: We're flexible. Right. Depends on the job and the timing. I'm just going to tell you kind of wish list. Right. The preferred way, which I think is not only good for us, but good for the client. Okay. So we're typically involved eight months to a year, a book ahead of time. Right. Where we're often referred by an architect or designer, or sometimes they'll come to us first and have us refer the architect or designer. But getting that team together is important to me. We really won't do it without a design designer. We won't. We love when our clients have good taste and they know what they like and all that stuff. But that doesn't. That's not equal to a designer for the level of homes we're doing. Right. I need more than Pinterest pictures and all that stuff. And I don't know if we're going to get into that. That's more like the tools I need for estimating. But there's. There's definitely some requirements that we need from the designers.
[00:04:58] Speaker A: Okay, so real quick, real quick. Tyler, you said eight months before you get started. Is that like before you break ground?
[00:05:06] Speaker B: Yeah, sorry. Yeah. Before. Before we break ground. I mean, and sometimes it's. It's longer and we.
We get involved. Usually, typically people are coming to us because we're referred and like, nothing is drawn yet. Now I understand the anxiety of a homeowner, like, where you get a tip to have three or four bids from your contractor. This is where I don't envy their position. They meet someone they trust. Okay. And.
And that just needs to come from a lot of referrals, a lot of references, and oftentimes it's already there. The TR. There because the. They. They left the architect, love the designer, and they know. Kill me. They know our clients are happy, all that stuff. But I also give a dozen references if they want. So I understand signing someone to what they think might be a blank check is scary. We do. We typically do not do a competitive bid because that would mean all the drawings and everything would have to be done.
Now that is a way to do it. And I'm not saying we haven't. None of. We have on a couple that we really wanted. And if it's a good contractor, bring it on. We'll. We'll bid against people. If the specifications are legit and it's apples to apples and that gets in. That's really hard to do with our type of home. So.
And then it's like we have a backlog. Right. Could we even start your home? Right? So that's why getting in early, I think it really is. Again, if you have a good relationship with your contractor, they come trusted. Maybe an open book policy. Like we are.
We can help you with your budget. We can be your best friend. So. And sometimes being I being their best friend tells them they can't afford it. And I. I would much rather have those hard conversations at the start of the job than six months in and we're all frustrated. I've mentioned this a few times. I'd have the perfect job if it didn't have to do with budget and schedule. But those are so, so, so important. So we get the. We get the design team together. Architect starts drawing, gets the floor plan. Depends. Some interior designers want to be involved in that, some don't. But once we get to like, let's just say a schematic drawing, what we do is a conceptual estimate. Like, all right, we've talked rough numbers. Christ, I totally hate it. But it's absolutely necessary. I get it. To get, like, rough numbers. Let's just say I'm just Going to use round numbers, let's say a thousand foot, right? That was our goal. And we draw something that's and off 8,000 square feet or up to an $8 million bid. So we'll do conceptual stuff. We will. Based on comps. We've built enough homes. We'll do some of the takeoffs ourselves with our pre construction team. Be like, all right, with the stuff you've told us, with some of the selections of pictures you showed us, we feel comfortable telling you this is going to be 7.5 to $8 million. Again, they're. They're not all that expensive. I don't know why I picked a number that high. But we're. We're really close. Like, if we get within 20% of, like, where they feel comfortable, we're like, all right, let's keep drawing. And if we get to the point, if we tell them, it's, hey, your budget was. Your budget was 7 million. I'm like, hey, we think this is a $10 million job. We have some hard decisions to make. We need to really dial back, draw something completely different or not build it, because again, that's where it. Like, we could be your best friend of getting you out of a situation you shouldn't get yourself into. So. And again, we don't. We. We don't want that. That fight during construction of being way over budget. So we'll put that conceptual drawing or conceptual estimate together. And if, hey, we're like, okay, this is your. The range. We see the house coming in. What do you think? Oh, that looks good. Let's keep going. So then that's when you've got a floor plan nailed down. That's when the designers really get involved. They start again. We're talking perfect world things. And it's not always the. The designer has to get this decisions out of the home. Or we are custom home builders, so we will never penalize someone for customizing their home and changing their mind. But I really want this playbook. I want this. This packet before we break ground. So it'd be like, hey, you're getting this house for $4 million. You're getting this house now if we change it, yeah, we'll go up or down, whatever. But, like, here's our. Here's our expectation, and that's just really just our baseline. And so everyone knows, hey, if you don't change anything or whatever, we'll be within like 1 to 2% of this. We'll be good.
That rarely happens. We change stuff all the time. But we really like the designers to get us like a lighting packet, drawings, if they can. If we could get a full packet, like, that's my dream. It's rare, but oftentimes we can get 70 to 80%. And let's just say we didn't get the lighting packet. I really would like to lean on our designers a bit, be like, hey, you've had more design meetings with them. I don't know if The Joneses are $70,000 lighting people or $270,000 lighting people. You need to help me and you need to have a little skin in the game with this budget. So when we go to pick stuff out, I also don't want that budget to be mismanaged.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: Right, right. You want to hold up what you promised them in that. In that grace gray area, what you promised them that it was going to cost. So, yeah, I know that lighting example can really, can really sway things.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: Yeah, lighting is one. We're like, again, we've built so many homes and lighting, it's the jewelry of the home. Right. That's something that could be swapped out later. Not too difficult to do that. But it just. There's huge swings with it. It can be, again, like I said, 70,000, 270,000. We've had a couple of those where we went way over budget and it was bad. And it was just because we had a really bad expectation of everyone, not just the builder, but the designer and the homeowner. Really bad expectation of what we're, what lights we're going to put in the house. So we have to be incredibly thoughtful with the design, with architects, homeowner and the interior designer during that pre construction phase. So we get every selection we can, drawings if possible, before we break ground. But simultaneously, while we're getting some of those selections, architects are finishing up their drawings, getting approvals from the HOA or development they're working in, and getting the structural set. So I can't get solid numbers because, like the sticks and bricks, the bones of the house, that's me, like, that's my team. The designers don't really need to be involved too much with that. We can't get those numbers till the engineered drawings are done and that's like at the end of the project. So that's why those conceptual estimates are so important and we can't miss badly.
So anyway, we get those drawings done and then we typically set, submit for permit. And concurrently, while that's happening, we're. We're fine tuning our numbers. We're sending it out to 200, 250 vendors, subcontractors and vendors to go two to three deep on every line item. So we get all those compiled and we like to have the designer and homeowner involved in that first budget presentation. We're like, okay, here's some assumptions we made with the team. If we have this wrong, let us know. We show them their wish list. And almost every time the wish list is more expensive than what they want to pay. I understand that construction is expensive, but then we usually come to that meeting with a value engineered option already. Like, hey, I know like just from the conversation we wanted this to be a $5 million job. It's looking like 6. Here's some non design related items we could pull out of the job to get us the 5.5. We just kind of show it to them. Just show how much wiggle room there really is because there's. In our homes, there's a lot of things I call awesome but not necessary. But they sure are great. But those are the low hanging fruit you can pull out to save six figure chunks.
[00:12:54] Speaker A: Tyler, can you give us a couple examples? Just for someone who's looking to aspire to work on an amazing custom new build project like this, what are some of the things that they could say on the build side? This is where value engineering may occur.
[00:13:08] Speaker B: So without changing the drawings, some of the first ones for us are like radiant heat floors because you have to have forced air where we are as well. So it's basically heating your home in two ways. A heated driveway. I get, I don't know, a lot of static online for that. That. That's. Yeah. I mean it's not necessary. But it's so cool if you've shoveled snow your entire life or at all. Like that's a pretty cool thing if you can afford stuff like that. We could get into actually just like the drawings part of it structural. Like as far as like how big a span you can go in a great room without a post or something that affect the steel. Stuff like that.
A lot of it. A lot. A lot of the sticks and brick stuff. We have minimum standards we think for what a multi million dollar home needs. And we don't really want to bend on them too much because it doesn't move the needle. Like I'm talking like six figure things. So some could be it gets in the design stuff. Some could be some additional cabinets that you don't need. Right. Or taking that lighting budget, we know we can get it.
We can do a beautiful house at a hundred Thousand dollars for lighting. We got 250 in the budget. Right. So those are some of the things that are design related. And we want to be careful about that. We don't usually throw that in our first value engineered option, but we'll bring in the designer and be like, all right, we got to cut $400,000 off this. Here's where we can do it. Here's where we suggest you can do it. What do you think, designers?
So, yeah, like the. And then like, the exterior, the landscape, that can get pretty crazy pretty quickly. So with our builds, we include everything. Like, it's easier to say what we don't include, because we do landscaping, we do all the hardscape outside. We'll do the pool, whatever it is. The things we don't include in our budgets are architect, designer, and furniture. Like, those three things. Some. I remember the first time I got asked like, where's my line item for my couches? I'm like, that's not me. That's not neat.
[00:15:08] Speaker A: So you are covering tile plumbing.
We'll talk about that a little later. Because some designers feel like it gets to be a gray area of who's ordering those things. And I know we've talked about that at design camp, but you're literally everything but furniture. Essentially, yes.
[00:15:24] Speaker B: And that includes permits. That includes, like, all of our fees. I think. I'm not saying people are being disingenuous with this, but I mentioned I hate price for Spur Foot. The way people pitch their price per square foot needs to be standardized. It bothers me because we. Ours is all those things included. Like, all those things you need to build your house. Right? So I'm not going to hide a bucket of money and be like, oh, by the way, our fees are on top of that. So if someone comes to another client and they're, you know, which totally. Talk to as many people as you want, it's a big deal building a house. Just make sure you're getting the right information. They're talking to their cousin or something. Be like, hey, we built it for 400 foot. Okay, cool. So what. What are you missing? Because I. I can't build it for that for free. I couldn't build that for free. So, like, I guarantee I'm not making double what another builder is. I'd be retired. I wouldn't be doing this anymore. So what are we missing? So there are. There's those buckets of. Of money. We just want the client to know, like, hey, you need to make sure you and save some for your Furniture. If you want us to pull out, I don't know, some things out of our contract, that's totally fine, but we just want to know. Want you to tell you what we're including. So getting back to the, like, what I think price for square foot should be, it should be based on your finished condition space.
But that number, that calculation, you know, again, it's not exact. Would also include your garages, which are basically finished with our homes anyway. And then, you know, your deck space, but also your landscaping and your hardscape and your. Some driveways are 400ft long, some are 50. Right. So that's why not all square footage is created equal. So that's where we want to be very sure that just the clients, if they're like, oh, this guy can do it for a couple hundred square foot less, like, okay, let's just make sure we're all including the same thing. If it's a good builder, they should be really close to us because our fees are pretty standard for our tree. Some or less, depending on, you know, the level of service you get from your builder. I think for what we do with our team, like, we're incredibly fair with every. There's a point where you're paying too much, I believe, but you definitely, you know the game with the lowest guy. That's scary, too.
[00:17:38] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.
So I'm curious if you had to guess how many of your new build projects, like, new clients that are coming in, their first point of contact was with a designer versus an architect versus y'all, like, at your caliber are people like, I want to work with Tyler, and that's where I'm starting when I want to build a house. Or they're like, I have this amazing designer. That's where I'm starting to build a house.
[00:18:06] Speaker B: I. It's a good question. I. I got asked this yesterday. I was meeting with a new designer who had just reached out. She knew my wife from college, and she's like, I'm just trying to get more builders. And so we just met, and that was one of the questions she asked.
This is an exact number, but this is how I feel it goes. So I feel like probably 50% of our builds are from an architect.
Then I would say another 30 or 40 are just. They reach out to us. And then designer is probably about 10 or whatever. However we do that math, small, smaller amount is the designer.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: I think that's a really important note for everyone listening, because I think that designers get in this headspace of, oh, I'm Never going to get a new build project. Everybody's coming to me for renovations and like reevaluating a space and hearing that 50% of your work is coming from an architect. Maybe formulating those relationships with architects is where you should be really prioritizing your, your marketing time and just your networking time versus worrying about getting people who want a new build directly to the consumer because it's going to be coming from your architect or your builder.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: I think it's, I think networking never hurts. I'm trying to network a bit more because I just get so busy and I'm just really focused on our builds, which absolutely should be. That's my, that's my job. But like I've been going to more networking events and meeting with architects and designers and it's fun and it's cool and some work might come from it. So like, as far as like designers, we have some smaller designers. We work with big firms, we work with small firms. If you do a good job, I don't care how big you are. I really don't. When they come to us, obviously we haven't worked with them before and they haven't worked with us. I would, I'm always trying to think, well, how can we get you into rotation? It sounds like I like what you're doing. Don't ever be afraid to like reach out to a builder, reach out to an architect. Show them what you do. Just keep dripping on them and just, I mean something even as simple as being very supportive on social media.
I have a love hate thing with social media, but I sure know the people who are kind on there. I was like, oh, that page, like they're always cheering us on. I love them. I would love to work with them. Like, don't underestimate that because I think we have a decent sized following for a builder and I can only imagine what some of these people with millions of followers get. But like we get enough comments to hurt your feelings and it's online, whatever, it's wild, wild west. But I just mentioned, like, I know when people are supportive and appreciate good work and like, I think that means something. Again, probably be supportive, not expecting something back, but it would hurt.
[00:20:54] Speaker A: We talk about that a lot. As far as like formulating genuine connections with editors. Like, you need to start befriending them before you ever need them, before you ever need to reach out, start cheering them on before you have anything you ever need from them. Tyler, you just mentioned show contractors what you're working with. Like, show them what you're doing. I'd love to break that down to be really specific. In. In your perfect world, someone says, hey, I'd love to talk to you. I'd love for you to consider me for a project as a referral. What can I put in front of your face that's going to wow you?
[00:21:32] Speaker B: So it boils down to their deliverables, their design packet. There's also four or five things that it's.
It's hard to quantify with just an interview if they're going to be good at it. But like, as far as, like, communication is a coordinate. How do you communicate? How do I get a hold of you? What's your communication love language? I don't know. Are you an emailer? Like, because I need stuff in writing. I love to use my phone as a phone and talk to people, but I also need stuff in writing. But getting back to their packet, I'll tell you the way I prefer. And then another way that still works. So the design packet should have a combination of design board floor plans. Get the. Get the plans from the architect, put those floor plans in, have reflected ceiling plans and a lot of drawings. I freaking love drawings so much. And that's what separates an interior designer from a decorator. We need both in this world. We absolutely do. But they are not the same in my opinion.
An interior designer knows construction and is constantly learning construction. Some of the best ones went to school for construction management. Not saying you need that, but that sure is cool. They understand the limitations we have. So I remember the very first time it was with Shay, with Shay Wiggy. I was very anti designer probably before her because I was your typical builder being like, okay, I'm just getting these Pinterest pictures and like they just come in and I call them butterfly. Designers would kind of float in and say, this would be yummy, I would love this. But they leave me with no information, right? And then that's a lot of pressure. Be like, I'm. I don't. I guess I'll drop the fireplace. I think this is what they want. So that was frustrating because I felt like it was just putting more on my plates. And then I. Then with Shay, we had our first job and. And I remember seeing the elevations, Interior drawings, interior elevations. And it had the actual light we were going to use and how far off the floor it was and like where it needed to be centered with the trim. And I was like, wait, that's the actual layer you use? And you're telling me where to put it right now? Instead of me just holding it up, you know, for about four, I don't know, four or five minutes till someone decides. Which we still do. Which we still do. But, like, I was like, oh, this is amazing. And had. I had a drawing of every wall where something important was happening. So that's huge in the packet. Huge in the packet. And then separate to that. So again, we have like a reflect RCP plan. Like, reflect us in plan. We have the floor. Floor plan showing where all the tile locations, all the hardwood floor, the carpet.
We have sections of what the stair rail needs to look like, stuff like that. But then the separate document where you can call it the detail sheets or specs or whatever, would be a list of every trade. I've seen them formatted in per room and per trade. I personally like portrait because it's easier for me to send to my team because my hardware folks do not care about 90% of that packet. And sometimes it's 300 pages. So it's way easier if it's broken out per. Per scope. Right. So. Or per trade. So then they have sometimes more often than not, a picture, let's say with hardware. Picture of the doorknobs, picture of the cabinet pulse, and next to it, the name of it next to it, a link. Like, doesn't mean we necessarily need to buy it from that link. But, like, we can pull out specs and all that stuff, and then we can use. We can combine that together. Depends on who we're working with to be like, okay, we can check that. That that's been worked. Or like, sorry, this is out of stock. We need to pivot. So those two documents. Now, seeing those two documents merged together is not my favorite, but I think it works.
[00:25:14] Speaker A: And so for that list that has, you know, the hardware examples, is that the same or is that something different than, like, your FF and E schedule that a designer's working on?
[00:25:23] Speaker B: I think it'd be similar. But your FF and E, wouldn't that be. Have all your furnishings, too?
[00:25:29] Speaker A: Yes, but. Yeah, but there will be just the wallpapers. There'll be just the lighting as well.
[00:25:33] Speaker B: That was actually a conversation that came up yesterday with the designer about whose place, what. So in her opinion, wallpaper was in her scope. Now, I feel like wallpaper is in my scope because I install it. I don't care where it is, as long as it's accounted for. Typically, I just like to have. We can buy the wallpaper from the designer if they source it, but I like to have the actual wallpaper material number in my budget because I might be paying that person. And again, just keeping the buckets a little tidier. So the two main ones for us is that designers provide is lighting and wallpaper. We've had some supply tile, and all that is fine, as long as that's negotiated upfront with your client and they understand. I would recommend being pretty forthright with what your markup situation is, and I think it's pretty easy. Or it can be pretty easy if we present it the right way. I'd be like, hey, you're still getting less. In retail, we mark it up approximately this, you know, to cover our overhead and our handling. And if it breaks and it in. In our care, it's our problem. So we gotta make sure we're covered there. But again with us, mostly it's lighting.
[00:26:40] Speaker A: Sometimes tile and wallpaper and plumbing fixtures. You say is always you.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: I want to be opposed to it because that's one where I really want the designer, regardless of who's buying it, to triple check. Because I'm sure you've looked at plumbing quotes. They're hard to read. I don't always understand them. Especially they don't have like a. If the plumbing supplier didn't put a spec book together, you're just reading kind of this gibberish code of this line. I'm like, I don't know if this is the right, you know, pot filler. I don't know. It doesn't even say what color it is. So in the code. Right. So that's one where we. We ask our. We get the quote. Usually they pick it out in a showroom with the client, and we get the quote, and we're just like, hey, designer friends, please double and triple check this. So this is correct.
[00:27:27] Speaker A: You had just mentioned Tyler, something that we've chatted about before, but I'd love to go into detail. I know people listening are a little freaked out by saying, oh, the builder's going to buy the wallpaper, the builder is going to do lighting, any of these things, because they're like, that's a big portion of, you know, my profit. You have what seems like a pretty straightforward, simple, honest solution that you can just buy it from the designer if that's what it needs to be. Can you explain that theory a little bit more?
[00:27:58] Speaker B: Yeah. So maybe I've just never seen it the other way. But, like, we have a great designer we work with, Kim Parker. She sends me an invoice for lighting. I put it in the draw, I write her a check. Depends on how the homeowners want to pay, whether they're paying cash or with a bank. More often than not, when we get a draw, kill only gets a lump sum. We cut checks so they're treated just like a vendor.
[00:28:23] Speaker A: Got it. So they're acting just like a retailer in that sense. They get it however they get it, and then you're just purchasing it right from them. And how does receiving on those particular items work as well? Do you like those to go to the designer's receiving warehouse? Do you like those to go straight to the site?
[00:28:38] Speaker B: They need to take care of both of those things. If we're buying it from them, they need to store it and they have storage fees in their contract.
And then when it's delivered, I expect them there to receive it and to check it. I had a really bad experience on a build where the designer just took no ownership of it and the lights allegedly made it there and we were missing four and I had to pay for them. Now I say allegedly because they might have made it, I don't know. But no one really checked it off. There was just. There was a photo of like 80 boxes that the delivery guy did and our team could have opened them all and checked them all. But ultimately, if someone's making a markup on lighting and all that stuff, I think receiving them, it's a big part of it. Our best designers will take them, receive them, check them, write the location on the box, and if we're ready for them, they often set them in the room.
[00:29:35] Speaker A: When was the last time you Upgraded your website? 3 years ago? Was it 5 years ago? The truth is, with advancements in technology, ever changing mobile device sizes, and the constant need for SEO updates, you really should be updating your website every two to three years max. While our team has created custom brands and websites for industry leaders like Amber Lewis and Nate Burkus. The truth. Truth is, not every interior design studio needs a fully custom website. Which is why we've built beautiful limited edition website templates at IDCO Studio specifically for interior designers. Our in depth understanding of this industry allows us to create quality website templates specialized in an editorial look that converts clients while allowing designers unprecedented control over maintaining and updating their website themselves. I'm so excited to introduce Semi custom Website Suites, a service created at IDCO Studio to give established design studios access to a premium customized website experience without the higher investment in time or budget that a fully custom build often requires. Here's how it works. Each semi custom website is pre developed by our award winning Design team in WIX Studio, the platform's most robust editorial, allowing us to create sophisticated layouts and stunning functionality. From there, we work closely with you to customize every aspect. We'll add in your images, your branding, even custom copywriting to ensure that the final site reflects your studio's unique style and voice. And we don't stop at the website itself. Along with it, you'll receive a suite of branded client documents, including an investment guide, welcome guide, design proposal, and more, plus social media templates, all tailored to match your new website's aesthetic. To keep these sites feeling truly one of a kind, we limit each design to just 10 copies. So while they're customizable for your brand, you really won't see them anywhere else. If this sounds like the next step for your studio, head over to IDCO Studio to explore available options. And as a listener, you can use code PODCAST15 to save 15% on any purchase site. Questions. Book a complimentary consultation with our team at IDCO Studio Bookacall to explore your options. Today, I'd love to dig in a little deeper to those essential documents and information that designers should be providing to you, especially at this, like, upfront, like in the initial, you know, we're talking eight months out from actually getting started on a project.
How far along, realistically, are you finding your designers are before you guys are really bidding? Because I know you said, like, this is conceptual plan, but I also know a lot of our clients are sitting there going, well, okay, now that we're really looking at the kitchen, now, we want these 57 other fancy custom built in sort of things. So how are you kind of protecting the budget that you've proposed while being a true custom builder and being flexible, but making sure that that scope creep does not overrun what you had promised to deliver?
[00:32:46] Speaker B: A few, few things. So we're constantly rebidding, we're just constantly redoing it.
Even if we got something picked out lighting four months before the dig, it's a huge house. We might not be buying that lighting for a year. So we gotta reprice it. And people just need to understand there's inflation. We can't, we can't buy it four months before we start digging. There's just nowhere to store that stuff. And the storage fees would be probably more than any inflation, right? So we're constantly bidding stuff out. So we, we get the tile pre construction, be like, all right, our tile budget's 50 grand. Before we send the purchase order to the tile company or purchase the tile, we rebid it Be like, oh, guess what, this one is discontinued. It seems like it always happens, so we need you to pick out another thing. Then we rebid it all and internally we insist on having a monthly budget meeting with the clients. And the designers are involved. Some take advantage of that, some do not. Sometimes they're not required. I think occasionally they're like, we need them there because we know we're over budget on something and we need them to pivot with us and help us. So there's draws throughout the month, you know, for when invoices come in and we need pay. But none of those draws should include surprises because in our monthly budget meeting, we go over where we're projecting the home to finish every month. Now it's a moving target. Absolutely is. I think it's very easy for a builder to say what they've spent to date. You just need an invoice and invoices and the calculator. But projecting stuff you haven't ordered yet is difficult. And we're, for example, like, we could have a purchase order for drywall, but we know we will have an allowance for any patches or whatever. That's just costs doing business for a bill. So we'll have to be like, okay, we're going to need another few thousand dollars in here at the end for patching and all that stuff, any trade damage, whatever, that you couldn't back charge. So every month we go through and we show, okay, here's what, here's what our original budget was. Here's costs we've committed to with purchase orders. It's like it's ordered. The appliances are good to go. That's what they're going to cost. And then we have a, we know you're going to add a basketball hoop. You know you're going to add this. So this column is like stuff we project you adding.
So our original budget was 4.5. You're at 4.6 as of this month.
And then the next month be like, yeah, guess what? We came a little bit under on framing. You're now at 4.55 or something like that. So I think it's really important you, your builder would allow you to be in those budget meetings. You can kind of see the temperature of the budget overall.
[00:35:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Because I feel like, you know, you go from 4.5, then you're at 4.6 and then six months from there, maybe you're up to 4.9 and someone set aside 500,000 for their furniture. And so a designer sitting here looking at this scope Creep. And they're like, this is cutting into my furnishings budget. How do you have conversations, honestly, with your team, with your architect and your designer team to be like, we want this to be a great project at the end, but we have to have the house. The house has to be where it starts. So how do you keep that feeling good and not letting designers feel like they kind of. They get to the end and they're like, I'm not even going to get to photograph this because there's no furniture going in.
[00:36:06] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, a lot of it's going to be up to your client. And if those meetings happen the way they're supposed to happen on time, they will know very early where.
Where they can change their minds, where they can pivot. Because you can have a $2,000 decision on multimillion dollar house is not a big deal. You do that, you know, 200 times. It's a big deal. So we feel that that meeting every month gives them more information to make the next $2,000 decision. And so just by keeping a really good pulse on the overall budget every month, they just know. You don't have that horrible conversation at the end of the bill, be like, oh, I got a bunch of invoices and expect I need $700,000 extra. It's just obviously, I mean, it's a freaking marathon building a house, and then you add that on top, everyone's going to be lose their minds. So I think the only job I really like get sideways that way I take ownership of. And I, you know, I lost a lot of money. I basically, I did a really poor job. I got all the change orders approved, like, all the additions approved. But I did a really bad job at like saying what the aggregate of it is. Like, you know, I figured I was getting them all approved, and they just knew at the end of the job, it's going to be a couple hundred grand more. And just that just never really clicked. And it was a big surprise. I'm like, whoa, we added this. We had. Don't remember that we added this. Like, here's your approval on that. So I think it's our job to just really just like present that big time. Just every month, be like, hey, you added this. That's. This is what it does to the bottom line, because they just need to know how much money they're going to need to finish this. Like you said, the furniture.
[00:37:50] Speaker A: Major gripe that designers have with contractors, and I'm saying contractors as a whole, definitely not you and your team. I'd love to know what the gold standard is when it comes to documentation. How is communication between the design and the contractor happening? Are you using any technology tools? Are you like, I just want those construction binders on site. How are we getting you the info you need? So that's always the most up to date.
[00:38:14] Speaker B: Okay, so I have preferences, but many ways can work. So the way we communicate, we're always calling, texting, emailing, whatever. I have a request that if there's ever a decision made, I want an email because that's a lot easier to search and be like, okay, you know what? You're right. You emailed me this. We ordered the wrong thing. Um, but we, we had a designer that we would refer to as. We talked about this. Like, that was her nickname because things would happen like, we talked about this. I'm like, did we. We have a lot of conversations. I don't remember talking about that. And you know what? Even if we did, I forgive myself for forgetting because we have. I have a million conversations a day. Where is it in writing? So it's really big to just get stuff written down. It really, it's for everybody. Because if we screwed up and it's written down, we'll take care of it. Right? But as far as, like, sharing the packet, that's a really good question because I personally don't love Google Docs. I love the idea that it is always, always updating. It's always current. However, we work in the mountains, work on job sites, it doesn't have great Internet. So, like, for opening that, sometimes our team has to download that onto their, their laptop or their iPad or whatever. We're not printing these 300 pages. Right? And I worry if, if the assumption is, oh, it's Google Docs, it's always online, it's always going to be updated. Not necessarily. We might not always have Internet. And I think it's unreasonable for people to check it every day to see if it changed to download it again. But if there's good Internet, maybe it's totally fine. Right? But I prefer when there's a packet. I was in commercial construction for a while, and this is how we handle changes in revision. So basically, here's Design Packet 1. Okay, this is great. This is what we're starting with. Oh, guess what? We changed some stuff. So I get another one. Update Design Packet. Design Packet 2. We take Design Packet 1. We don't delete it, we archive it. Design Packet 2 has areas clouded that were changed because it just. When it's so many pages you just like. It's like, you know, where's Waldo? You look through these 300 pages, be like, what actually changed? I don't remember. I'm not seeing. So have highlighted, whatever. Something very obvious. This was a change from the original design packet you saw. I like to see a little number next to it telling you what revision was changed on. So a little triangle with revision two against like the pop filler. We moved it or we changed it and then, you know, we usually get up to 7, 8, 9 revision packets and they're clouded and we'd be like, oh, yeah, that one changed back and forth. We got it. So that's just a PDF. This is just PDF. You can share Dropbox folders, all that stuff. But like, I just feel like the brand new one emailed to us when it's changed, I feel like that's. That is the simplest for me as far as like not worrying about, like, okay. I just want to make sure everyone has the right information. It's great to have beautiful plans, but if you're working off something old like, that's horrible.
[00:41:18] Speaker A: Right. Right. So in your company, obviously you're one of. How many employees do you guys have now?
[00:41:26] Speaker B: We're. I have a couple companies, but. Or probably around 20.
[00:41:29] Speaker A: Yeah. When you say get it emailed, a designer would email it to the version of you and you would distribute it to the right team or to the project manager, the.
[00:41:39] Speaker B: The foreman project manager. So I'm pretty much copied on everything, but I expect the project manager to receive that email and take the action of saving it. So it's just, I. You just really got to make sure it's. It's defined within your team. When you get an attachment, who's running with it. So our team, you typically have three or four killer employees. I'm copied on everything. Then we'll have a project manager. We'll probably have someone on field and then we'll have some administration help.
[00:42:06] Speaker A: Got it. Okay. We're going to get. I want to ask you some more personal questions about what you're doing in the business and the new projects you have going on. But I have a couple last. When we're talking about bids and working with contractors in general, mostly from the relationship side, you are so open and genuine anytime I've ever spoken to you, anytime, anything you put out onto social media. And that just unfortunately is not what designers are experiencing. They feel like they have to chase down their content contractors to get the information, especially when they. When they might be doing a distance design project and they can't just show up and check in on things. How can, how, how do you advise that we can encourage a really open, candid conversation with our contractors so they don't feel like we're micromanaging them, but they know that we're on top of it. They know that we are watching so that everybody's on the same team and you continue on the same team across the finish line.
[00:43:02] Speaker B: Well, that's a tough one. So, like, I think if I was. I look at it on my end, if I was having a hard time with a designer that wasn't responding to me, I'd make dang sure I was. Had stuff in writing and it was never me dropping the ball. Right. I would make sure I would send out emails. I would. I have a lot to say about correspondence in general. I really dislike emails that are longer than they need to be. But we're also trying to send a lot of information. So I think this is probably getting more into the weeds than you'd hope. But like, I think concise emails broken up in, in small paragraphs with numbered action items. Just, just being extremely clear, like, here's what I am doing and here's what I need from you. And constant follow up. I. There will probably be people who feel micromanaged, but my philosophy on micromanagement is if I'm micromanaging you, I don't want to do it. I got plenty to do. But if I'm micromanaging you, that means you're not doing your job. And if I'm micromanaging you and you're one of my employees, that's a really bad sign. So anyway, but like for you and a builder, you can't control if they're good at communicating. You can just really do your best and make sure you're covered and your clients know you're doing your job.
[00:44:22] Speaker A: Okay, Two super specific questions. One, we encourage all of our clients to send a weekly recap email to their clients. And it's like, here's what happened this week. Here's what's happening next week. Do you want to be cc'd on those emails or do you want a different here's what we need from you email from your designers?
[00:44:41] Speaker B: So we do that too. So every Friday we have a weekly update where our clients expect it. Architects and designers, and the clients are all copied on it. Be like, hey, here's what we did this week, here's what we're doing next week. Here's the questions we have. Great weekend. I originally started that so people quit calling me on Saturday asking what we did, but it really just kind of turned into this awesome update the homeowners were looking forward to.
So I. Some of our designers have taken that and done that as well. And I think it's super smart. And they copy us architects. Depends on your architects. Some are just like, don't want to be bothered. Some are like a handoff drawings and they were talking again. Others love to see like the progress, like, oh, that's cool. You guys are moving along. Framing already. Cool. But with the designers, theirs is a little bit different. They'll be like, dear client, copy Killowin. This week our design hours were spent on this and this and this. And remember, these were your homework items.
We love getting copied on that stuff. I was gonna say, I probably won't respond unless I am asked something specifically, but I love seeing it perfect.
[00:45:50] Speaker A: And then last question before I get into personal stuff real quickly is how often should we expect to see our contractors, project manager, whoever's in charge, on site? Like a luxury custom built home, they're probably doing four or five projects at a time. How often should we expect them to be on site of our project?
[00:46:12] Speaker B: Every day. It's frustrating and I understand the bottom line and the margins and all this stuff. Having an employee run six, seven, eight jobs would make me a lot more money. Our project managers have one or two and it needs to be hit every day, needs to be seen every day. Now they have office tasks. They have stuff that you can come in the office for or meetings or like a budget meeting, all that stuff. I'm not saying they have to be on the job site all day, every day. Some jobs need that. Some do that are just like so complicated. Need boots on the ground all day, every day. I was at a home builder association meeting the other day and I won't mention who it was. I'm not, I don't want to talk crap, but I was shocked. He. He was new and he mentioned. He's like, yeah, so I'm new. Our goal is to. I'm sorry, new to the hba. Our goal is to elevate the stigma that we're all terrible. Like so. And the way we're going to do that is we're going to be on our job site every. We won't go three days without being on our job site. And I was blown away. I was like, that's your pitch.
You're going to be on the job twice a week. That's your pitch. And that's how you're going to elevate our game. I was shocked. I understand, like, smaller remodels and stuff. We don't do a lot of those, but, like, we have. And, like, it is hard to get people there every day, I guess. But we were talking about custom homes. I believe so anyway. I was surprised. So to answer your question, that was a really long way to answer your question. I think the construction team needs to see the job every day.
[00:47:44] Speaker A: Got it. Okay. So since I've even seen you just a couple of months ago, you've launched a lot of stuff. I want to hear about podcasts, I want to hear about your stains. I want to hear about what you have going on and how people can work with you in different ways beyond just being lucky enough to get to build a home with you.
[00:48:02] Speaker B: Oh, well, that's nice of you. First and foremost, some builder. That's what I spend 99% of my time doing. I've heard. And I know, like, there's so many different ways to do this and how to market and all this stuff. I've heard people. I've heard people be like, I don't know if I want to build with. With KIL1, because Tyler just wants to be an influencer. And that could not be farther from the truth. I understand the perception. I get it. Because they see my face on Instagram. The truth is, I do videos about two hours a month. Right. And then we. We post them throughout the week or whatever. I'm just. Just not what I do. I'm running business. But again, you're not gonna make everyone happy. Not some of our clients. Absolutely love our online presence. They do. It's great. And I wanna showcase more and more our team so people don't think it's just me. Right. And I try and do that. We're trying to do a follow Friday show, like what good people are doing and. And our subcontractors and all that stuff, but anyhow, so ultimately, like I said, 99% of our time, we're just building houses, talking with the clients, all that. We've. We have a couple side gigs with, like. We launched Killwin Natural, which is a sealant for. We're gonna start coming up out with some more colors, but basically, it's just a beautiful treatment that we've just. Over years and years of trial and error that we found to leave the product just looking like raw wood. Like, I did it on my trellis system. I just built. I'm sorry, my pergola. I'm really bad with pergola versus trellis, by the way. But anyway, I built pergola and I, we stained it and it left it looking so natural, the painters couldn't tell, like, where they left off to continue work. And it's really a protective finish. Anyway, we're selling that online. We just. Again, it's just kind of like a little side gig. So many people had asked for it that, like, we're like, oh. So anyway, that's been going well. It's really great for, like, your. For white oak, which is so beautiful, but I love it on walnut. We're doing some test samples on. On cedar now, stuff like that. But anyway, the ultimate goal is, like, if you love the raw look of wood, this is a good product for you. And you can buy that on our website.
The podcasts, I actually don't think. I didn't say yet.
[00:50:17] Speaker A: Oh, top secret.
[00:50:19] Speaker B: Okay, I'm gonna allow. So it's not my podcast. I was hired to host it, and I don't want to do the company a disservice of announcing it before they can.
[00:50:30] Speaker A: Got it. Well, once it's announced, we'll link it in the show notes so when people are hearing this later and it's live, they can click right over to tune in.
[00:50:37] Speaker B: Yes, I'd love you to subscribe. So that's. But we've been recording and we're just. We're not ready to quite launch it yet. It's out of. Out of my hands. It's a bigger company and I'm gonna let them decide. So anyway, we have that. And then, like, it was funny. We did some. We've done some of our own merch, like hats and shirts, because people have asked. I know I'm not gonna get rich off of selling T shirts and stuff. The company I work with, that helps us and they, like, send out all the orders and stuff. They did like a photo shoot. And, like, I was in it and it was up online. I was like, this is not helping. The, like, Tyler wants to be an influencer image. So I ended up deleting all those because I was just like Mr. EQ posing with my shirts. I deleted those. So if you go on our website now, it just shows the shirts because I got look, I was like, yeah, that's kind of lame. So, yeah, again, those are just small things. Again, we're. We make money building houses, not selling T shirts. But I do believe in Kimo Natural. I think we're going to be at Cape is this year, and we're going to Have a booth.
[00:51:34] Speaker A: Oh, awesome.
[00:51:36] Speaker B: That'll be good. We haven't, I haven't put a lot of marketing dollars towards it other than just kind of announcing it online and stuff.
[00:51:43] Speaker A: Amazing. Okay, so looking into 2025, any projects that are doing something particularly cool that the first time you're seeing or the first time you're getting to try it, that we can start thinking about.
[00:51:56] Speaker B: Ooh, good question. I'm really excited about a home we're going to be building. It will be my first ski in, ski out. It's got like a ski rung right up to it. It's so beautiful. It's a Marcella, which is Deer Valley here in Park City. Great new development. We're hoping to do more and more there. That one will be cool. We've got this really cool estate lodge that we're doing pumping canvas. Just lots of really cool, fun projects. As far as like, what's coming up that's like different.
That's one cool thing about my job is we're just, it seems like every, every year we're doing things we hadn't done before. Any builder says they they've done it all is full of crap because there's just always new ways to do things. I like the tried and true methods, absolutely. But there's a lot of advances in building science and just always like finding a new way to new waterproofing system or just like a new flashing. And this is a new flashing detail. But just learning more and more about the best practices of a home, that's really important to me because we've built enough homes that, you know, our official warranty is whatever the state requires. But if we get it wrong, we're going to fix it forever. And we've gone. We fixed some, some homes that are like, you know, seven, eight years old where they had a minor issue or whatever. And we just want these homes to last. They're spending so much money. We want, we just want to do what's there. There's, there's like a way you can kind of drive, drive around neighborhoods when new homes are going up. And this sounds pretty bratty, but I can usually tell if they're a good builder by like the weather barrier system they're using. I'm like, oh, that's really crappy paper. Who knows what else they're putting in that house. The difference between a really well executed house just material wise is pretty small in upgrades as far as like what your standards are. If you think about how much people are spending on these homes, Excavation, the framing, all this stuff. Upgrading from a bad paper to, you know, something that's really going to last has a really great warranty. It's like 1 or 2%. A lot of times we have these budget conversations like, hey, look into this, looking at this. And they're like, what would you do on your house? And that's usually what I'm like, I would do this. I think this is waste money. I would do this. So. And I have such a good team that's built so many amazing homes over the years now. So anyway, we. There's a, there's. That's a good way for people to take ownership of their project. Being like, hey, if this was my house and I spend this money, this is how I would do it.
[00:54:25] Speaker A: Well, Tyler, this was amazing. As always. I just find you so endearing and so helpful and I. It's. You feel like such a safe space to ask questions to. So I appreciate you coming on the show. I know you have another meeting to get to, so thank you so much for your time and I look forward to chatting with you very soon.
[00:54:43] Speaker B: Thanks, Max. That was great.
[00:54:56] Speaker A: Riley used to have her own radio show back at her university, so when we were deciding who was going to be the one to ask me questions, it was a clear choice. Riley, thank you so much. And I'll talk to you on Slack in a few minutes for more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more. Don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes or at patreon.com forward/the interior collection. Thank you so, so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. The biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible. Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business business of beautiful living.
