[00:00:11] Speaker A: Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey, the one who's usually guiding you through conversations with the industry's leading voices. But today we're doing something a little different. And I have to say I'm both very excited and pretty nervous because today the tables are turning and I am actually in the hot seat. Joining me is Riley Campbell, our incredibly talented art director at IDK Studio in Quin Made. And truly, we all owe Riley for pushing this podcast into existence in the first place. From day one, Riley saw the potential in creating a space for design conversations that went deeper into the business side of industry. And as much as I've always been the one with the mic, she really is the reason we are here in season five. So if you've ever enjoyed an episode of the Interior Collective, all thanks can go straight straight to her. In today's episode, Riley's going to be interviewing me and we're diving into some things I don't usually talk about.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: We'll go back to how I got.
[00:01:07] Speaker A: My start in this industry, why I chose to niche down to work exclusively with interior designers, and what it's like managing a large team at IDCO and Quin made, and most personally, how I'm navigating the transition to motherhood. So let's jump in and please welcome the person I am most grateful for, Riley Campbell.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: We are so excited to invite you to dive deeper into the Interior Collective. Podcast episodes now on Patreon unlock access to in depth analysis, helpful downloads and worksheets created with each podcast episode. Subscribers gain behind the scenes access to additional resources like examples and screenshots of guest spreadsheets, construction documents and so much more. Your subscription also gets you immediate access to our private community of interior designers and our team of industry experts ready to answer your questions. Subscribe
[email protected] the Interior Collective or linked in the show notes. Join the Interior Collective Patreon community and let's continue this conversation.
[00:02:08] Speaker A: Hey Riley and welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you here. I am low key, pretty nervous. I usually get away with just asking questions, so to be the one having to answer is a little nerve wracking, but there's no one I would rather have asking questions than you.
[00:02:24] Speaker C: Well, thank you for having me. It's kind of fun being on this side of it. I'm usually just listening, so I am equally as nervous, but I'm not the one doing the hard part, so.
[00:02:35] Speaker A: Well, as I had mentioned in the intro for everyone Listening. Riley is really the visionary behind the podcast. She pushed me to start a podcast when I had never even heard a podcast before. I resisted for probably a good 18 months before I finally gave in to her fierce willpower. And she was just so right. It's been such a pleasure to start this podcast and continue these conversations. And I feel so, so lucky to get to speak to who we get to speak to and get such intimate, candid answers from everyone. So I guess it's due time that I give everybody my own answers to.
[00:03:14] Speaker C: Yeah, I would say so. I actually think, I mean, I feel really honored to be a part of everything from, you know, the idea phase, just bouncing around the idea in the office and you saying, no, no, no, no, no. So now just seeing it grow into like, what is it, the fifth season? Which is wild. So, yeah, happy to be here. So I would love to jump into the questions and get started. So first, I want to start at the beginning and talk about how you got to where we are today. It's pretty clear you have a very entrepreneurial spirit. Did you always know you're going to own your own business? Was that kind of what you set out to do from the beginning?
[00:03:52] Speaker A: You know, it's funny, I. I never thought that owning my own business, like, it never even came across my mind growing up. That was not the vibe. Even though in hindsight, looking at the way I grew up, how my parents are, that I come from a House of DIYers and, and just go getters, really creative and business masterminded people and like now it makes so much sense. But at the time it was very much like you're going to go to a four year university, you're going to go into a regular professional career. And that's just like not how my story ended up unfolding. And looking back, it kind of makes sense. I ended up on the path I should have been, but it took quite a few roundabout turns to get there.
[00:04:39] Speaker C: Yeah. Could you go into a little bit more detail about what those turns were? I'm. I'm very curious.
[00:04:44] Speaker A: So I was really fortunate that last minute I told my parents I wanted to go to art school and they were supportive of it, even though I definitely had been, you know, taking all the classes and being on ASB and doing all those things. In high school, I remember being on yearbook. I thought I was gonna work at a magazine. Like that was my dream job. It was, you know, the early 2000s and all the rom com girls are all working at magazines. That's definitely what the dream job was. And then I was. I was like, I want to go to San Francisco and go to art school. So I ended up majoring in advertising with a focus on copywriting and then also studying graphic design there. And it was not the traditional college experience. It was city living and really brilliant, cool, creative people, but very, very different than what all my friends ended up going off to do.
Looking back on college, I feel so lucky because when I graduated, I had a skillset to start making money immediately. I had friends who were graduating from USC and UCLA who went to school for English or a billion other things and they got out of school. And it was just kind of the time in the economy where there wasn't really jobs lined up for people with more generic degrees. And I had the skillset that I was able to start working right away.
So that's like a whole nother episode. Quinn and I talk about it all the time, about how the future of university is changing and what it's going to be like for Baby K and it might not be a four year school and all of these things. And I just feel so lucky that I was nurtured to find what I really liked, to study that and to focus in on that. So by the time you get out of school, you know what you actually want to do. So after. Actually, it wasn't even after university. I was finishing up my last few credits in San Francisco and I needed a job because I had to pay rent. And so I started as a marketing. I think the title was like coordinator or something at a commercial real estate firm. They needed a graphic designer to do like their boring basic flyers. I believe we were using Microsoft.
Gosh. I want to call it like paint. I'm sure it was something better than Microsoft. Exactly. It was Microsoft something. And I was just filling in templates. It was a great first job that the guys that worked there were so nice to me. And it definitely got me some corporate experience that really I never had again.
And I met Quinn.
And about two years into that job, we kind of were priced out of San Francisco. We were living with my sister and the three of us were in an apartment that you guys might have seen online. We call it the Dollhouse. She still, she still resides in that same condo, but we had just kind of outgrown our space. Quinn and I started playing around with like, where would we move? What's our next job? Like, what happens here? He grew up moving a lot, I grew up moving a lot. So we were very open to like moving, moving and he had. We'd been to Nashville because the sister attended Vanderbilt and really liked Nashville. And that was definitely, you know, at that point, that was 12, almost 12 years ago. And Nashville was definitely, like, just busting on the scene. And Quinn was like, oh, well, if you like Nashville, like, you'll really like Austin, too. And I have to say, growing up in California, my boyfriend saying that you would like to move to Texas was, like, basically a deal breaker. Like, back then, moving to Texas, you could have said that I was moving to the outback of Australia. I was like, absolutely not. Quinn. Quinn had attended university, Texas Christian, up in Fort Worth. And he was like, you are not going to like Dallas, not going to like Houston. He's like, but do you like Nashville? Austin's got a similar vibe. Well, I took my mom for Mother's Day on a trip out to Austin. Me being me. I had already lined up, like, five job interviews for this first trip I'd ever even been on. And it was.
I guess it was Memorial Day weekend. So UT was out. Downtown was not what downtown is these days. And there was like, nobody around. And my mom was like, absolutely not. You cannot live here. Like, there is nothing. It was like, literally her worst nightmare. It's exactly what I pictured it to be. And I'm just, as, you know, Riley, such a decisive person. I was like, I'm going to go on these job interviews. I'm like, this is what we're doing. I'm like, this is. This is going to happen. So none of those job interviews worked out, but I got another job interview in the two days I was here at a luxury real estate firm.
That was wonderful. It was like, all women doing Austin's most fabulous properties. And the job was for their director of marketing role. And I certainly felt a little bit fake until you make it, but also felt like I had been doing real estate. I knew advertising, graphic design. I was like, I can do this. So I remember they flew me out two weeks later to come interview, and I got to stay the Four Seasons. And it was so fancy and fabulous. I was like, oh, my gosh, this is going to be the best.
And it was the best. It was like. It was like interviewing at a sorority, and everybody was your best friend. And I got the job the next day, and we moved. We drove cross country, I think, three weeks later, and moved to Austin. So I spent three whole years there as their director of marketing, doing everything from redesigning their websites to all of their property marketing. And it was a wonderful experience. My some of my dearest friends were there. But I definitely got to a point where it was like, this is the plateau. Like, this is what this job is always going to be, and there's not room for growth. And the company itself isn't necessarily growing in the sense of they're still just going to be selling properties. Like, it's not evolving in any way.
So I had started doing some freelance on the side. The owner of the firm actually would hook me up with clients, and as long as it wasn't a real estate client, I was allowed to freelance. Over the course of three years, I'd asked for a raise seven times and was never granted one.
And one of the clients that she had actually sent me up with circled back around after we weren't even working together in a freelance capacity anymore, and offered me a CMO position. So chief marketing officer at this cool lifestyle textile company. And it was for, like, four times.
[00:11:40] Speaker B: What I was making.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: And it was like equity in the company. It was. It was a big girl job, and it was a big offer. But I did love my job. And I definitely felt like it was the kind of situation where I'm like, this is a family. Like, I want to be respectful. I want to talk to my boss about this, and I want to see where this could go if it's going to go somewhere.
And I called my boss. She had been out of town, and she said, meet me at the office tomorrow. I get to the office and she fires me on the spot for being disloyal. And she called the person that she had referred me to, had them retract the offer as well. And she said, as far as everybody else is concerned, this was a mutual thing. I'll give you 30 days. Which was imperative because we did not have money at the time. To just not work was not an option.
And I remember I walked out of the office in total shock. And I called my dad before I called my husband.
And I was just so upset. I just couldn't believe what I really fundamentally thought I was doing. The right thing, hadn't made up my mind. Like, it was very much meant to be a conversation. Just like that, it was over. And so the next day, I went home and posted on Instagram to. I mean, I might have had 3,000 followers, like, maybe, and was like, hey, if anybody needs a website, I'm your girl.
And that first month, I made my entire year's salary of doing websites.
[00:13:15] Speaker C: I haven't ever heard that full story before, but it is really wild to see that kind of full circle.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: I just remember when I called my dad and he's like, okay, like, we've got you. You're not going to have to live under a bridge. And like me hearing my dad say, we've got you isn't as comforting as it sounds. For me, that's like worst case scenario to have to like borrow from my parents. They're so supportive in so many ways, but financially that was not it. But I did know that that was a possibility. He asked, he's like, where do you want to go? What do you want to do now? I mean, you have a great reputation in that city. You made lots of connections. Like, what do you, what do you want to do now? And I'm just like, I don't know that I can work for another person again. Like, I gave everything I had for three years to never get a raise, never be compensated in that I wasn't even getting health insurance at the time. And for it to be so cutthroat in an environment that was conditioned and really groomed in you, that this is a family and we'll always take care of you, I was just like, I don't think I can do this again. So as soon as I started booking those website clients, I was like, I don't need to go to work. Like, I can do this.
[00:14:28] Speaker C: I love how that kind of came to be. So how did it go from you freelancing and taking on these website clients to now and where you are today? I know that's a big jump. You niche down at one point. Could you tell us kind of what made you make that decision from just taking on any freelance clients to working exclusively, exclusively with interior designers?
[00:14:50] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So I definitely started off pretty much focused on like creative female businesses. So it was anything from there was. I did a lot of salons, I did a lot of nail parlors, had a couple awesome bakery clients, I had a couple of interior design clients. There was a few things that I've been doing with a couple more corporate like family attorney things thrown in there.
And it was just me for actually a short amount of time. Pretty quickly, a girl that I had worked with at my old job was on maternity leave and she's like, I have part time hours available. Do you need help? And she was amazing. I was like, yes. So I actually got my first taste of having help just a few months into into freelancing.
What my biggest mistake at the time was was that every day that I had Erin, I was looking at my own to do list and Seeing what tasks I could just hand off to her. She never had a proper role. And that's something that I teach a lot at design camp, is that you do not hire for a body, you hire for a role. Whatever they are in charge of should not be crossing your mind. And shortly after Aaron's maternity leave was over, she went back to her old job. They paid way more than I could pay her. They also paid her like three times what they ever paid me. It went back to just being me. I had the immense pleasure of being invited to join. I don't know who remembers this, but back in the day, there was these things called, like, engagement pods on Instagram and it would be a group chat on Instagram and anytime someone in it posted, they'd share to the group chat and then everybody would go and comment just to try to boost your engagement. And Lexi, who's now our creative director, had invited me to this one. Graphic designers and web designers that she thought that I would be a good fit to mesh with. And I was. They quickly became my virtual co workers. We started a Slack channel and we were just buddies going through our own freelance work really intensely. Like, we were all online together all day, every day, working.
I was booking a lot and Lexi at the time wasn't booking as much. So she started freelancing for me when I needed to bring on a project, a new project, or I needed extra help. And it was just like a match made in heaven. She's the best person in the world. She's such a joy to work with. And I don't know anybody who works harder than her. And after a couple of years, we got to the point where it was just like, lexi, what are we doing? Like, why don't you just come work for me? You don't want to run the business side of things. I don't want to export logo files anymore. Just come on over and it was a big decision and there was some growing pains, but we haven't looked back since. Around that same time, I went on this retreat that changed my life. It was with Fiona Humberson and it IT that year, it took place in Mallorca. And in my world, in graphic design, branding world, Fiona's it, she is the top. She's written the most beautiful books. She's brilliant. And she had posted that she was hosting this retreat and, like, I could pay 12 months a payment plan in order to be able to afford it. And so I had talked to Quinn and I was like, I really think that I should. I should Go to this. And it was very expensive.
And Quinn was like, it's fine, I can go run to work instead of my gym membership. Like, we can, we can make it work. So I did and I went. And the whole retreat was very, very much more touchy feely than I expected it to be. I thought we were going to be working on portfolios, working on pitches, understanding proposals better. And it was very much about, like, identifying the why behind brands. And there was, like, there was a therapist there and I just, it was beautiful. I just was resistant the whole time. I definitely had an attitude problem and was like, this is not what I thought I spent so much money on.
And I was in psychology session, like 500 for the week. And they made me do this exercise and they're like, write down your five favorite projects you've ever had. And I did. And four out of the five of them were all interior designers. And in that moment I was like, it makes so much sense now. I totally buying what you're selling. She'd been talking all week about having an H down and only target one type of client. And I was like, that doesn't work for me. I have, like, I have to make money. Like, my family depends on it. I don't have a partner who's supporting me to that capacity. But when I did that exercise, it really, really made sense. So on the plane home, I rewrote every bit of copy on our website. I changed my entire Instagram strategy to start thinking about what type of content interior designers would really resonate with beyond just when they're looking for a new logo or website. And that's what was really pivotal. I started introducing a lot more lifestyle content. I started styling and restyling my own house to attract people that would then think of me when it was time for them to get a website or a new brand. And I think, absolutely, I owe Fiona everything. And I tell her this. I get to see her whenever I'm over in the uk. I owe everything to her because she made that so clear for me.
And from that point, we never took another client that wasn't, I'd say, in the shelter industry. But for the most part, it's been 100% interior designers ever since.
[00:20:47] Speaker B: When was the last time you Upgraded your website? 3 years ago?
[00:20:50] Speaker A: Was it 5 years ago?
[00:20:52] Speaker B: The truth is, with advancements in technology, ever changing mobile device sizes and the constant need for SEO updates, you really should be updating your website every two to three years max. While our team has created custom brands and websites for Industry leaders like Amber Lewis and Nate Burkus. The truth is, not every interior design studio needs a fully custom website, which is why we've built beautiful limited edition website templates at IDCO Studio specifically for interior designers. Our in depth understanding of this industry allows us to create quality website templates specialized in an editorial look that converts clients while allowing designers unprecedented control over maintaining and updating their website themselves. I'm so excited to introduce Semi Custom Website Suites, a service created at IDCO Studio to give established design studios access to a premium customized website experience without the higher investment in time or budget that a fully custom build often requires. Here's how it works. Each semi custom website is pre developed by our award winning design team in WIX Studio, the platform's most robust editor, allowing us to create sophisticated layouts and stunning functionality. From there, we work closely with you to customize every aspect. We'll add in your images, your branding, even custom copywriting to ensure that the final site reflects your studio's unique style and voice. And we don't stop at the website itself. Along with it, you'll receive a suite of branded client documents, including an investment guide, welcome guide, design proposal and more, plus social media templates all tailored to match your new website's aesthetic. To keep these sites feeling truly one of a kind, we limit each design to just 10 copies. So while they're customizable for your brand, you really won't see them anywhere else. If this sounds like the next step for your studio, head over to Idyco Studio Studio to explore available options and as a listener you can use code PODCAST15 to save 15% on any purchase site Wide Questions Book a complimentary consultation with our team at IDCO Studio Bookacall to explore your options today.
[00:23:08] Speaker C: I think that story is so empowering, especially because I know a lot of people are really resistant to niching down. It's seems counterintuitive to turn away clients at all and I know a lot of people think, you know, that's very impractical, but ultimately it led you to where you are today. Which I actually find it really inspirational that once you did niche down and kind of honed in on this one base, you didn't just stop at ID Code Studio. You know, you've grown and evolved into these multiple businesses and platforms and projects and, you know, educational services and offerings. So could you walk us through those different businesses and how they serve interior designers?
[00:23:48] Speaker A: Yes, and this is something I am constantly working on clarifying and identifying myself. It is ever a work in progress IDCO Studio is fundamentally what funds everything. It's what puts everybody's payroll in their bank accounts. And Ideco Studio is a digital creative studio for interior designers that specializes in branding and business tools for interior design. So at IDICO Studio we do everything from beautiful website templates built specifically for interior designers all the way through to killer spec books that are built in Google sheets that are like formatted properly and look bright and beautiful so that you can use them on the go without having to just be like a regular, a regular boring spreadsheet. We also kind of have like a hybrid model where there's the option to have our team implement your website template for you and we have amazing full time copywriters that'll write your copy for you. So not everything is entirely templated, not everything is entirely instant download. But it's this really nice hybrid that you can either get one of our templates, utilize it, DIY it and start using it tomorrow, or you can pick your favorite template and then look, let us really work to customize it to best suit you and basically take it off your plate so you don't have to think about it at all. IDKO Studio has, I think, well, we have 12 employees, full time employees on payroll, and then there's a few contractors in addition to that. A couple years ago there was an instance when someone who we all know who's been on the show launched a new website and we're very friendly and I was just super surprised that they didn't even ask us for a proposal. They didn't even ask us for just like, hey, could you do this project? We're shopping around, let me see what you could do. And when I asked them about that because I'm pushy and nosy, they were like, oh my God, I didn't even realize you did custom work. And we have always done custom work. It's just now IDK Studio was looking so templated that it really clarified to me that we needed to separate our custom design studio with IDCO Studio, where those templates are available for purchase at any time. So a year and a half ago, ish, we launched Quinn Made and that's same design team, same copywriters, same everything, but exclusively bespoke work. We've gotten to do crazy projects. We've done Nate Burkus website, we've done Amber Lewis's website, we've done Amber Lewis's blog. Another addition we've added over there is video content and we have the most perfect Joy of a human Jesse James as our videographer, full time on staff, who goes all around the country, flies to, installs, captures projects for designers. It's a really handy tool for our team at Quinn, who's producing new websites as well as for our content creation team because we do manage social media for a handful of designers as well. Part of the journey of niching down over the last seven years has been kind of dividing the company up. And so with that division came the Interior Collective. And where Ideco Studio used to be a place for some of the lifestyle content as well, it was no longer serving us being in the same spot. And that's where the Interior Collective came out. Nowadays, the Interior Collective is this podcast as well as an editorial destination for designers to share their projects from around the world. I know that there's so many publications out there, but a lot of them have embargoes and once it's been shared somewhere else, you can never share it again or vice versa. And I really wanted to create a community where people's work can be celebrated and enjoyed multiple times over. And so if you're listening, please submit your projects to us. We love doing our project tours and we have an editorial team on that side of the business as well who's writing all of those amazing home tours and interviews and gift guides and everything that you see over there on the blog. And then lastly is Design Camp. And this is my only joint venture with Lindsay Borchardt of Lindsey Brook Design, who you guys have heard on the show before. She is my work wife, my North Star. We have walked hand in hand in our businesses from their infancy and we really wanted to take the community aspect of what I had been building with her incredible knowledge and both of our understanding of lack of education there are for designers specifically in running a business. And we launched a four day retreat and Design Camp started truly camp style. There was 14 of us at this cute little boutique hotel here in Austin there it was so small, Lindsey and I literally didn't even get to stay there. We had to drive in from my house, which was like 45 minutes away every morning, and we busted our butts. That was quickly not sustainable. And we realized that this was not going to work. And so Lindsay asked me, if you could dream really big, where would we host Design Camp? And I was like, well, if we do it anywhere, I'd want to do it at the proper. I'm like, but there's no way we can afford the proper. Like there's. That is literally the ultimate. It's never going to happen. Lindsay made it happen. And we've been hosting at the proper ever since. We split the retreats twice a year, one in Austin proper and one at the Santa Monica proper. And Design Camp has absolutely become the best part of my career and one of the better parts of my life.
[00:29:51] Speaker C: I would say, as somebody who's gotten to go there, it's so fulfilling and rewarding and inspiring. Getting to see all the designers, that's been really cool to be a part of. So you have all these different business ventures and brands, but they all kind of serve the same overarching purpose. Would you say that there's a core thread that runs between all of them, Something that remains true for every brand? For instance, like, would you consider maybe a personal mission statement that you stand by?
[00:30:21] Speaker A: Um, so I had never put this into words until I had worked with Renee from Tandem. I'll make sure she's linked in the show notes. You guys have heard her on the show. Renee's a brilliant friend, and I'm really grateful to her time. She helped me realize that everything I do, and I'm going to try to get through this without crying, but everything I do is entirely for female financial independence. I never, ever want a woman to have to make a decision out of fear based on whether she can or cannot afford her lifestyle or to provide for her kids or to have to depend on someone else. And when I really look at the tools we've built and the services we provide, it always comes back to that. I always want someone to have the freedom to live creatively and to live in a way that allows them to do a job that they truly love.
[00:31:19] Speaker C: I love that. And I know it's taken you a lot to get here and to be able to, you know, serve those purposes, which I think is so amazing and honorable. But I know that there's a lot that you have to manage and take care of. I'm sure from an outside perspective, it seems really complex and overwhelming that you have all these brands and all these different buckets that you have your hand in. So would you be able to share your approach for managing and supporting each business? Do you have, you know, separate teams that serve each one, different people for different companies?
[00:31:52] Speaker A: So there are a handful of roles at our companies that are exclusive to one of the brands. For instance, our editors. Well, that's not even entirely true. One of our editors only works on the interior collective. Jesse mostly only works for Quinn. But there's a lot of overlap. Everybody comes to design camp. Everybody works on other things.
Like I had mentioned, Quinn and ID Co's team are the same design team and people have different roles within those teams based off of like, which projects are more custom, which projects are more templated, et cetera. I think what makes managing three and a half brands feasible is the fact that we do have one core incredible team. And Riley, you know, I will never get through this without crying. But like, I love my team so deeply, there is nothing I wouldn't do for them. And there have been many times in this business that I have had to do some pretty extreme things to keep them. And I also feel likewise that there's nothing I couldn't ask them to do and they would be so happy to do it. We grew really fast during COVID Everybody had loan money, so everybody had to spend it by the end of the year on marketing or websites. And so our team grew really quickly and it was a really hard lesson when that loan money stopped and business slowed down and we did have to let some people go. But I feel like our core team that we have right now is just so on lock and they always joke that they're like, we're id. We're IDK girls for life. And you know, four and five years later, after everybody's still here, I'm starting to believe that they're not going anywhere. So having a team that is nimble and dynamic and are creative in the sense that they want to get to do different types of work and they aren't trying to do the same job perfectly, exactly the same every single day has allowed for managing them to be a lot easier.
[00:34:05] Speaker C: You do such a beautiful job managing the teams and it is really been so valuable to see how our roles aren't super defined specifically, but that everybody is really flexible and we step in where we need to. So on that note, now that you have kind of established these teams, how has your role changed from when you first started freelancing? I'm sure that looks a lot different and it's going to look even more different with Baby K on the way. So how has being a boss kind of affected your ability to be creative in the day to day?
[00:34:42] Speaker A: Kind of like I never thought I would own my own business.
Having a team was never really in my vision for the future. But it is absolutely the best part of what I do to look back on how my role has changed. I honestly feel like my role has changed the most in like the last two and a half years. Ish.
I was working with Lexi Online on Slack till three in the Morning every single night, working on client deliverables for like five or six years. It was a long. It was a long hustle. And I'm just so grateful that she was up there with me on her couch and Tupelo doing the same thing. Even after we had hired a team, I was still in charge of a good number of actual client deliverables that had hard deadlines that needed to be hit, while also growing the company and creating content and doing all of these other things.
And I feel like once we felt that decline after Covid, boom, that's when I really started to truly delegate and no longer have actual deadlines that I needed to meet. From a client's perspective, that was an intentional choice because I was trying to figure out how we afford to catch the team. And when I talked to mentors and peers, I realized I shouldn't be paying people full time salaries and benefits while I'm still doing a big portion of the legwork. And so in order to keep this team intact, I needed to give them more to do so that their jobs were invaluable at that point. And it wasn't something that I could just absorb again. And so that also goes along with my kind of journey to feeling ready to actually have a child was when I was doing so much of the actual work, it just. And then I had people who were depending on me beyond just my own family. I just would completely black out with the concept of having a baby. Like there was just no world where a baby fit into it. But then after we really started putting the right systems and processes into place at the company. Zuh. It's an incredibly freeing feeling now to know that everything can run itself. Everybody's got everything on lock. And sure, I am very much still involved every day. There's not a day that I don't talk to the team, but nobody's waiting on me in order to get their job done.
[00:37:26] Speaker C: And I know you've done a lot to get there and to get to that point. Do you have any advice for someone that is thinking about hiring or taking that next step to expanding their team to get to where you are?
[00:37:38] Speaker A: I think that taking more time to hire is probably the best piece of advice. And if you haven't listened to Jean Stouffer's episode yet this season, definitely do, because she says something similar. Keep contract workers as long as you possibly can and figure out how you can keep them legally as contractors. So they are contracted for a specific project and it gets renewed every time you need to have them on again. We had gotten to the point where our contractors had to come fully on board because it was no longer on a per project basis. They were working as full time employees. It was not legal for them to be contractors anymore. And so everybody went W2 basically at the same time. And that's what kind of bit us in the butt later and made our payroll was just astronomical. And we had to make really hard choices. So figure out what you can hire as a contractor first. Whether that's a procurement manager or you want to outsource your 3D renderings or even your CAD drawings. Start with a contractor and keep it as a contractor for as long as humanly possible before you need to start hiring your full time employees.
[00:38:48] Speaker C: I think that's great advice now that you have all these different brands and businesses. I've also realized, I mean, it's been a really smart approach for diversifying revenue, which is something that's talked about on this podcast a lot. How did you know when it was time to start something new within the business or to take that next step to expand into these different projects?
[00:39:09] Speaker A: I think that I'm very much an intuitive person and like, I feel something in my gut and I don't let it sit there for more than like a half day before I act upon it.
And it's, it's really. I just like what I try to set up for our clients. Like, I don't ever want to be making decisions out of fear as well. And I've gotten to this point where I'm like, let's try it and if it doesn't work, it's fine and you move on and there's no harm in that. And I think there's a lot of beauty in that. I always tell design campers and our clients and just even friends that like, nobody remembers your failures. All anybody ever remembers are your successes. So by eliminating the fear from it, it's a lot easier to listen to your gut and listen to yourself when something doesn't feel right. Or a lot of the projects we've taken on have been passion projects. It's just like, I want to do this. So I'm like, hey guys, let's try it. And I just hope everybody gets on board. And so far, most of the time, you all get on board.
[00:40:15] Speaker C: Yeah, that's been really cool to see and very rewarding to see. You know, these passions become brands and businesses on their own. Based on your experience of having to make that distinction, what would you tell other people who are looking to make the distinction between when a passion should become a business or when they should, you know, just keep going on the road that they're on.
[00:40:41] Speaker A: So I'm a person who has probably a very controversial opinion that I feel like you deserve to be paid for anything you do. And so the concept of something that's a passion that's not also a business is very foreign to me. I've been so lucky that I've been able to turn my passions into businesses. So I can't exactly give you a black and white answer to that. However, I do believe that finding success in business is about having two parts passion and one part skillset. When I started doing websites, when I was fired and needed to make money, I definitely at that point was surviving in a two parts skillset, one part passion kind of way. And it wasn't until that retreat with Fiona when I got to start doing interior design projects or taking on interior designers as my clients did that really shift. And when that shift happened is when I became more joyful and business got so much better. And so I feel like you can always invest more time, energy and resources into growing your skillset base, but you're not always going to be able to grow your passion about something. So if there is a project or a side hustle that you want to explore, figure out a way to make it work and see how you can incorporate it. And if it means that it's going to take a lot of your time and you're not going to be able to focus on your primary, primary business, well, then look at what creative options you have. Can you outsource more in your primary business so that you can start the side passion project? And again, don't be afraid if it doesn't work. It just didn't work and you know more about what you want to be doing. And I just, I don't want everybody to be so scared of what's going to happen if a business doesn't work out. Like, I promise nothing happens like the sure money was spent on it, but money's a renewable resource when you're a business owner. Like, that's why you're in business, because you can make more money. So don't let that be what stops you from chasing your dreams.
[00:42:55] Speaker C: So speaking of passions, interior design does seem to be a very clear one of yours. You really grew your following when sharing about your own home design projects and started doing some influencing and collaborations of your own. Have you ever considered branching out and taking on interior design clients yourself?
[00:43:14] Speaker A: We get asked to design people's houses on a daily basis.
And a good 30% of me every time wants to say yes, every single time.
And then I remember all of the templates and systems and processes we have built for interior designers and remember how much harder your job is than mine. And so. So that is definitely what has steered me from it. But also in a. In full disclosure and true transparency, I have the gift of knowing thousands of interior designers businesses intimately. And from just a moral standpoint, having people break down every aspect of their business to me and then go out and open my own interior design studio just feels icky. And so we have pivoted and opened a little showroom in our regular creative studio where we can curate product and we have local designers come in and memo stuff to take to shoots and to use for installs and we have little pop up shops and that is definitely helping to kind of scratch that itch without launching an entirely new, much more difficult business model.
[00:44:39] Speaker C: Yeah, and I feel like you did that also with, you know, some of the collaborations that we've had. You've been able to step into that a little bit. Could you talk about your wallpaper collaboration with Chasing Paper?
[00:44:50] Speaker A: Yes. Chasing Paper is such a pinch me moment. It's gone really, really well. And I owe it entirely to Elizabeth at Chasing Paper. I met Elizabeth truly in passing at Alt Summit, which is a conference in Palm Springs. It truly must have been eight years ago. Seven or eight years ago. We were both at, I believe it was the Alaska Airlines dinner at a restaurant. And we were both standing at the bar waiting for a glass of wine. We chatted for maybe 10 minutes and that was that. She followed me on Instagram, I followed her on Instagram. I watched Chasing Paper blow up and explode. And it's been amazing.
And I guess it was last year. It had to have been last year. I got an email from her and she said that I was on her short list of people she wanted to do a Collab with for 2024. And I drew up the designs in a matter of two or three days. I had a very clear vision for what I wanted it to look like and luckily my amazing team is very skilled and was able to execute them there. Everything's hand carved. Even the stripes are hand carved into rubber blocks and stamped, then digitized. And it's a very tactile collection and it was one of her first collections that used four different paper ways, including the faux grass cloth, which I just love.
But to start seeing it in people's homes or to start seeing it in people's projects has been, like, the coolest thing ever. Everything we do is so digital. So to have something so tactile that, like, you can literally rub your face on in your house is really, really cool.
[00:46:35] Speaker C: That has to be so rewarding.
[00:46:37] Speaker A: Yeah. So, Elizabeth, when you're ready, I'm ready for 2.0. I've got more ideas.
[00:46:42] Speaker C: Oh, I'm ready too. I'm ready to put them in all the rooms in my house.
So I'm forming kind of a common theme here. A lot has come to fruition from relationships you've made on Instagram. So I'd love to talk to you about social media a little bit. Do you have a specific strategy that you've used while growing these, you know, multiple brands that you have online?
[00:47:05] Speaker A: I think that I got into Instagram maybe a tiny bit late, but still very much in the time that you could really grow on Instagram. And so that was, like, my first, when, I guess you could say I got on board early enough that it was easy to grow with that I spent a lot of time on Instagram, and things like that engagement pod that Lexi had invited me to allowed me to start really cultivating, like, true friendships online.
And I think that that really helped. When I went to different conferences, people at least knew my face or my name, even if we weren't friends, because I had been engaging with them. So outbound engagement has always been a top strategy, which has been a harder thing to do in most recent years now that we have three accounts and we're representing designers from all over the world with their home tours. And, like, finding where our voice lies within each brand has been trickier to see still be formulating those really intimate relationships that I was able to at the beginning.
[00:48:21] Speaker C: Yeah. And what's interesting is the interior collective account now has evolved, obviously, so much from being your personal account into it now being, you know, the podcast and the blog. So you have recently made the decision to launch. Launch another personal account on Instagram, or I guess now a personal account. Could you explain the thought process behind that decision?
[00:48:44] Speaker A: I love the timeliness of this question. I literally told the team yesterday that I was doing this, so. Nice way to slide that in, Riley. I feel like I lost my voice and I felt like I couldn't share real opinions anymore because we were sharing other people's work. And I love to share other people's work. I think it's really important that people have an option to run a full home tour after Domino has picked up just a Bathroom. Like, their work deserves to live longer. And so I had really scaled back and pulled back my own thoughts and advice and opinions and style. And as we get ready to welcome Baby K, it really got me thinking. I'm like, where does she fit into this? Where. Where does this whole next chapter of my life fit into what has been my life for the last 10 years of being online and. And building these brands? And I just kind of don't care about followers anymore. I'm like, we have. We have followers. Like, if someone clicks over to our profile, we have enough followers per brand for it to be like, okay, they're a legit, legitimate business. Like, so I just. I just wanted to get back to what Instagram had been for me and lean into that harder.
[00:50:08] Speaker C: Yeah. I think I speak for everyone when I say that we're all very excited to see this next chapter happen. And I know I discovered IDCO and ultimately my job from following on Instagram, so. And I still have Pinterest boards that, you know, go as far back as your first home, so it's cool to see it all kind of come full circle. So we know you love to end every podcast asking the guests if there's anything exciting, exciting coming up. So, on that kind of personal note, is there anything that you can share? Do you have any newer business ventures or goals that we can keep an eye out for?
[00:50:40] Speaker A: It's an interesting question because I feel like my life is a question mark right now, where at the time of this recording, we're four weeks out from welcoming the baby. And next year's just going to be really different in the sense of how.
How my brain takes up space and what gets to take up space in my brain. And so I think some of the things I'm really excited about, honestly, are to continue watching my team grow and thrive and, like, turn these jobs. Our team's really young, although now they've been with me for, like, four and five years, so they're not so young anymore. But, like, to watch them turn these. This role into a career is super, super rewarding.
I'm excited to be doing more video projects with Jesse and get to go see more projects in person and video our amazing clients work. That's absolutely my most fun days, is shoot days, and I'm super excited. I don't. Lindsay's going to kill me if I'm already announcing this, but I'm really excited for design camp to be coming back to Santa Monica in May. Those dates will be May 6th through 9th, and tickets will go on sale right after the new year, but we have such cool keynote guests that will be there and it's nice to head back to California. We haven't been there for about a year and a half by the time we head back, so it's going to feel really good to get back to that beautiful hotel and see everybody again there.
[00:52:15] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, thank you for letting me kind of put you in the hot seat today. It's been so fun to kind of be on the other side and well.
[00:52:24] Speaker A: Riley, you did awesome. So a plus for you. Thank you for stepping in. This is totally out of your normal wheelhouse, but fun fact, Riley used to have her own radio show back at her university, so when we were deciding who was going to be the one to ask me questions, it was a clear choice. Riley, thank you so much. And I'll talk to you on Slack in a few minutes.
[00:52:51] Speaker B: For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more. Don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] the Interior Collective thank you so so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. The biggest thank you to you our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible. Until next time. I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living living.
