[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Scaling a design firm isn't just about taking on more projects. It's about stepping into the role of CEO, redefining your creative direction, and building a business that can grow with you. Because the truth is, if you own your own design studio, you are an entrepreneur first. Even if you identify yourself as a designer first and foremost.
On today's episode of the Interior Collective, I'm joined by Hilary Matt, founder and principal of Hilary Matt Interiors, a New York based residential design studio with projects spanning the country.
Known for her fearless mix of postmodern edge and Scandinavian minimalism, Hilary creates layered, highly personal spaces rooted in comfort, function and material depth. Her work has been featured in ARC Digest, Elle Decor, the New York Times, and House Beautiful, and she's been recognized as a member of Ads Design Directory, House Beautiful's Next Wave Class, and Better Homes and G Color Stars.
In this conversation, Hillary shares how her firm evolved from a one woman show into a nationally recognized business with a team of 15, and the pivotal moment that caused her to reevaluate everything from team structure to brand identity. We're unpacking the growing pains of leadership, the shifts in her creative role, and the intentional ways she's expanding her firm's reach beyond traditional client services.
This is an honest, behind the scenes look of what it really means to grow as both a designer and an entrepreneur.
[00:01:28] Speaker C: We are so excited to invite you to dive deeper into the Interior Collective Podcast episodes now on Patreon unlock access to in depth analysis, helpful downloads and worksheets created with each podcast episode. Subscribers gain behind the scenes access to additional resources like examples and screenshots of guest spreadsheets, construction documents, and so much more. Your subscription also gets you immediate access to our private community of interior designers and our team of industry experts ready to answer your questions.
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[00:02:09] Speaker B: If you've been listening to the Interior Collective for a while, you probably have heard all kinds of software recommendations and maybe even tried a few. But if your system still feels kind of all over the place, I totally get it. That's exactly why I wanted to share Materio that's M A T E R I O. It's an all in one platform built just for interior designers from concept to install and everything in between. You can try it for
[email protected] and Interior Collective. Listeners get 50% off their first month.
Hi Hillary, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you here. I'm really grateful for your time. I know as you said, you've got your son getting off a camp bus here in a minute, some peak of summer. So we really appreciate your time.
[00:02:52] Speaker A: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: I'm also super honored that you are open and willing to talk about what we're going through today because I do feel like what you are kind of exploring, discovering, experiencing and in your 10 years, so much of what everybody who's listening is as well. So before we get into like the meat of the episode, I really would love if you could just take us back to the beginning. How did HMI originally come to life and what did early days of the firm look like from a team and kind of structure perspective?
[00:03:29] Speaker A: Yeah, so I started in the industry in 2011. I worked for another interior designer. I was her assistant for seven years and I stopped working for her when I was pregnant with my first son, Jones. And when I left her and I had the baby organically, you know, I had friends, my sister in law, her friends, a bunch of people started reaching out to me for help. They were little projects, you know, one room or helping accessorize an area or, you know, just finishing a space that had already started. And so I got into that and started to help people and it just grew from there.
So in 2017, I started my own firm, Hillary Matt Interiors. It was just me. I had an intern at the time who was basically my assistant and that grew from there. I hired her to be my first employee. Then I hired another employee and now here we are and I have 13, 14 people working for me now, which is really crazy. So we've really grown so much, which is so exciting to think about and there's still so much more to do, but you know, it's really grown so much and I've scaled the company a lot and it's really exciting.
[00:04:46] Speaker B: That is super exciting. That's a, that's a big team. Can you talk to us about what you and 14 people look like from like an or structure standpoint?
[00:04:55] Speaker A: So when I first started my company, you know, it was just me and a few other girls on my team and we sort of did everything. We designed, we project managed, we ordered, we, we did all of that. And I worked that way for, I would say about six years where I like literally had my hands and everything and all the girls in my office did. And I realized over time that that is just not, you know, the right way to run my business. And I was getting burnt out. The girls in my office were getting burnt out. It was just way too much for us to do. So I realized that I needed to restruct business. So about a year and a half ago, I changed everything. I separated my team into designers and project managers, which I think really helped streamline the process. And then the designers were able to focus on the design of the spaces and the project managers could really see it out from when an order's placed to when it's delivered. And it's really been working so well for us. I don't know how I did everything for so long.
We somehow made it happen, but it was a lot.
So my team is made up of, of designers, project managers. I have an operations director. I recently hired a vp, which is really exciting. You know, I really wanted to structure it in a way that I could focus on design. I realized that, that, you know, that's why I started my company. That's what I love to do. And I'm, I'm a creative. I'm not a business savvy person.
I don't want to do the things that I'm not good at. So I realized I had to hire other people to help me with that. And I think that realization of my company and how it's grown and what I can and can't do has really helped because I used to want to have my hands in everything and I just know it's not possible for me, for my family, my social life, everything, you know, I needed to sort of spread the love throughout my company and have everyone else help me.
[00:06:46] Speaker B: Okay, we're at question two and I already have so many follow up questions. I feel like you already disclosed so much. Okay, so on a team that has designers, project managers, so you have an operations person to those listening who's like, okay, what's the difference between a project manager and someone who's doing operations in a firm of your size of 14 is a 14 plus you. 14 including you. 14 plus. Okay, so a firm of 15.
Can you kind of just give a quick ballpark explanation of like what the operations person is doing and how that's different than a project manager?
[00:07:22] Speaker A: Yeah. So my operations director at my team, she oversees everyone. So she oversees, oversees the designers and she oversees the project manager. So she makes sure, you know, everything is running smoothly. The communication between the designers and the project managers, any issues that arise, she's the one who deals with it. I mean, ultimately she comes to me as well, but she handles it first.
And she, you know, she does a lot of HR stuff at my company, too. She helps, you know, the girls on my team with, you know, anything they may need in the office, or she handles days off. She handles work from home days. She oversees all of that sort of stuff. So she's sort of my eyes and ears with the team and another person that my team members can talk to other than me. My operations director is a little different than, you know, a normal one because she does sort of dabble in project management as well. She started on my team as a project manager, and she's really good at it. So on some of my very important projects, I still have her project manage them, but overall, it's mostly just overseeing my whole team.
[00:08:22] Speaker B: Okay, and then where does this VP fit into the mix?
[00:08:27] Speaker A: So I just hired my vp. She just started, like a week ago, so it's sort of new to me. But her. Her job is primarily focused on business development of Hillary Matt Interiors, and of myself. You know, I really wanted her to help me grow the business and grow the brand. And, you know, it's hard for me to focus on that when I'm trying to design homes and, you know, work with clients. So I really brought her help take the team and the brand to the next level. You know, she's also another person for my operations director to speak to, you know, and she's just, you know, another adult in the room, I like to say, other than me. So it's nice to have someone else on my team who not only has my best interest, but, you know, is really helping us grow and be the best that we can be.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And can know the things that you don't know and you don't really want to know.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I could. I tried for so long to just do it on my own, and I can't.
[00:09:27] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. That's so clear. That was such a great explanation. Thank you for dissecting that for us. And I know we'll get into it in. In more in depth later, but I think that that was just my initial question, so I'm sure someone else was wondering, too. Okay, so when we were chatting about this episode in general, you had mentioned, like, reevaluating the trajectory of the firm, because as you had said, you were operating as a startup and you really needed to be operating as a brand.
So what prompted that pause and what came out of that strategic reflection? Because I think a lot of people kind of call themselves a startup. They feel like kind of forever until there's, you know, 50 people on the team. And while 15 won five people at a studio, it was a sizable studio. It certainly isn't like what we think of as a brand that has, you know, 100 people in three offices. So, like, how were you able to make that mental shift? And was there, like a specific moment that it happened that you're like, this is not working?
[00:10:29] Speaker A: I was just so burnt out. I feel like I was trying to do everything. You know, I would work all day, I would come home, I would put my kids to bed, and then I would sit at my dining room table and work until, you know, 11 o' clock at night. And I just couldn't.
I was doing that for years and years and I just couldn't get everything done. And I knew that I needed a change and this wasn't how work should be going for me. I needed, you know, to get my life back. And I could tell that the girls who were on my team were also stressed out and they were burnt out. And I was like, this just can't be the way. So what I first did is I started to call some of my friends in the industry and I got some intel about how they ran their firms. And, you know, some of them were. I mean, most of them, it was so different than what I was doing. And I was just so used to. To doing it all myself or overseeing, and I overseeing every single little thing. And I realized that's not possible. And so that's when I, you know, made the shift and I realized that I had to make a change.
And that's when I decided to do the split of the designers and the project managers. And, you know, the second that we started to run the business that way, I noticed not only did my life get better, but the girls in my office, their lives got better. You know, everyone seemed happier at work. Everyone seemed like they were able to handle everything, everything that was on their plate. And, you know, I just noticed that shift right away. But I mean, I just couldn't go on the way that it was going. And I think, you know, with a startup, you just are on a hamster wheel and you're continuously just doing it and doing it and doing it, and that's fine, and that works for a while, but it couldn't continue anymore for me.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So when you made that shift, when you were like, okay, we have designers and project managers, did you devy up the existing team or was that an immediate hire for the project managers?
[00:12:20] Speaker A: So I had, I think at that point there were like four or five people on my team. One of the girls on my team was on the design side because I guess everyone was on the design side, but she was more interested in the project management. Like, she told me that she liked that. So I knew that she wanted to be a project manager. And then she was the. I think we only had one project manager at that point. And then the other girls were very interested in design. But then since that point when I hire people, I make sure that whoever I'm hiring for a project manager understands that they're not doing the design and they need to be okay with that. And then the designers as well, that they are, you know, fluent in all of the programs that we require at our firm and that they are just going to be designing and they're not going to do any of the product management. But, you know, I've also had some girls in my team who switched over, you know, to the other side that they've realized that it's not what they want to do. I have some project managers who, you know, went to school for design and they wish they were more involved in the design. So, you know, one girl on my team, I'm sort of having her do like a hybrid where she's doing a little bit of a design, a little bit of project management to see what she likes more, and then we're going to figure it out for her. So, you know, I think that it sort of depends whatever my team members are more interested in. But now I really try and hire strictly for one or the other.
[00:13:33] Speaker B: I think it's so amazing to think just a year and a half ago you were at four or five people, and now you have so many more. And to those listening who are like, this is my lifeline, I see what I have to do now. Like, I have to just commit.
That feels like a really big jump in. In scaling. And so can you talk us through? You had one person on your team that was like a natural shift over to project management.
Was she project managing for the other three designers right away, or did you right away hire other project managers?
[00:14:02] Speaker A: She was. She was project managing for those designers for a little bit. And then I realized I had to hire another one to help out because it was just too much work for her to handle on her own. But it was sort of, you know, I was testing the waters at first before I made the complete shift. But I did hire another project manager very shortly after that, which I think was very helpful.
[00:14:24] Speaker B: Talk to me about how this financially was possible, like, to go from that size team, were you guys just so much more productive that you were able to build back those hours?
[00:14:34] Speaker A: Yeah. So it wasn't even. Which we can talk about billing hours later. Cause I know you wanted to ask me about that, which is like a big thing for me, but we, we, I don't know, we always had the capital, I guess to hire more team members. I just never realized that that's what I needed to do.
It was never the money that was an issue. And I've always been so lucky to have, you know, knock on wood, so many clients and you know, always getting, you know, emails for potential clients. And that was never a problem for me. So it was just sort of about taking things off everyone else's plate. Cause I was just, it was just, we were just jam packing it on for everyone and everyone was stressed out. So I just knew that I needed to like spread it out.
[00:15:17] Speaker B: And then how long if this all happened really? A year and a half ago. How long do you.
[00:15:23] Speaker A: Almost two years ago.
[00:15:24] Speaker B: Okay. Okay, almost two years ago. By the time this airs it'll certainly be two years. But how long in that two year span did it take to kind of staff up to where you are? I mean, I know you said you just hired your VP last week.
[00:15:38] Speaker A: Yeah. So I've, in the past couple of months I've hired, you know, four new people I would say. So it wasn't all right then and there when I made the switch. But I mean, listen, it's still two years later and we're still trying to work out the kinks. You know, I had a call this morning with my vp. You know, I had check ins with all the girls on my team. They sort of, they all did self reflections about their goals and how they're feeling at work. And I went through all of that with them today actually and some of them last week and you know, they all still have concerns and issues and the way, you know, communication is between designers and project managers. So we're still working through all of it. It wasn't like the most perfect switch, but you know, I think workload wise it was so helpful and we're still working out like the best way to run the company between the two so that there's no mistakes, there's clear communication and there aren't issues. We are almost there and there's been such a difference, I think in, you know, mistakes and issues.
There's definitely been a big change, but there's still, you know, a little bit of work that needs to be done. But we're still working on it.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: So I know that at the top of the show you were saying you want to design. That's what why you started your business. Can you talk to us about what your role looks like now? Do you call yourself founder and CEO? Are you founder and creative director? Principal, Kind of. What's your title? And then what does day to day look like? Because now you're saying, well, we're reviewing, you know, people's internal reflections and like that kind of sounds like operations or repeats. So like where do you feel like your sweet spot is in a. On a perfect day.
[00:17:11] Speaker A: So I still feel like my girls love and I say girls because I only have girls in my office, but I would hire a boy. I feel like my girls in my office love the connection to me and I still want to make the time for them. I don't. I want them to feel like they could still come to me if they need anything and like I really do want to be a part of their growth at the company. I just, you know, I needed someone else to help. So I still love to take these meetings with them to, you know, make sure that everyone's feeling good, where they're at and their goals and all of that stuff. So I guess that isn't really so creative. And I don't know, maybe I'll have to let that go eventually. But right now I still, you know, love my one on ones with them, but my title, I don't know, I would say it's like all the above of what you said. I sort of struggle with what to call myself. I'm definitely the creative director, the principal. I guess I'm sort of still operations a little bit. But I don't know, I really am trying to shift to more creative parts of the business, which is what, like I said, what I started my business for. I love to design.
I want to give my all to all my clients and their projects. And you know, I felt over time that I couldn't for a little bit because I was just so inundated with everything else. And so that's what I'm working back towards. And that's what I love about the business. I love being creative, finding new things, coming up with new ideas.
So I feel like I've been able to focus on that a lot more, which I love. And you know, you gotta love what you do. And I wasn't loving the business side of it, so I had to hire someone else and I'm not good at it. You know, I think accepting what you're good at and what you're not good at, and then hiring someone else or getting someone else to help you in those places where you, you know, you're not as good. And I think that's what makes the business grow. I couldn't do it all myself and I'm not good at it. So I think realizing that was a big turning point for me and my business and doing what I love.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: How involved are you now with your design teams? Like, when presentations are going out, when deliverables are going out to a client, how, how hands on have you been in those deliverables or do your designers, like, really own it? Obviously your eyes are on it before it goes to a client, but it's pretty much like in my office they call it the Stas sauce. Like that little fairy dust at the end.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: I think that there's a mix of that. I really do love to give my designers, you know, creative freedom to pull a bunch of things, come up with ideas. So I sort of let them start. Unless, you know, I'm very specific about a project and I know that I want something, you know, from the get go. Other than that, I usually let them start and then once they've sort of gotten into the nitty gritty we sit through, we make changes, we adjust things, I add in stuff. But I really do want to be involved in every step of the way. But sometimes I just need them to, like, start it off for me and then. Yeah, I mean, I feel like over time my. The girls on my team have been more involved in, you know, the everyday, you know, client interactions, which I think is good because if a client sends me an email, they don't see anyone else on it. They're probably not going to get a response really quickly. But if they email someone on my team, they're going to respond right away. So I think that some clients realize that. You know, I find with a lot of my clients that some of them get nervous that I'm not on the job or like they think that I'm going to take on the job and pass it on to someone on my team. But what they don't realize is that I'm behind everything. I'm behind every step of the way. I see everything, every response. The girls are responding to them on an email. Either they talk to me about it first or they know what I was going to say, or they already know the answer before me. So I feel like once a client understands that jobs get done so much quicker and they can get the answers that they need. But I am still 100% behind everything, and I want to make sure that my stamp of approval and my design and my style is on every one of my projects.
[00:21:11] Speaker B: One last question before we get into, like, our actual topic, although I feel like this could be an entire episode all on its own. In your experience, what was the biggest growing pain like from a leadership standpoint? The managing people, setting expectations, or being the boss when you've scaled really quickly, pretty sizably in not even two years?
[00:21:34] Speaker A: I think for me, managing people, which is also being the boss, is hard for me. I.
One of the, you know, one of my traits is I like to make everyone happy, and I want everyone to like me. And I think it's hard sometimes to be a boss and a mean boss or, you know, have to criticize someone or. Or sit down and talk to them when they've done something wrong. That was really hard for me to the point where I would, like, lose sleep at night because I didn't want to talk to them about it. Like, those awkward conversations, you know, I.
I'm a people pleaser, so that was really, really hard. And so that's one of the things that I realized why I needed to hire someone else. I need someone else to be the bad guy for me because I'm just not good at it. And, you know, in order to run a company, it's not all sunshine and rainbows. There's issues, and people need to be talked to, and, you know, there needs to be criticism, otherwise, you know, they're not going to grow. And I think that they. I've realized that everyone on my team responds really well to criticism, and they want to know if they're doing something wrong, and they want the chance to be able to change it or fix it.
So that was hard for me to give that criticism and speak to them, but now that I don't have to do that, it's better.
Yeah.
[00:22:47] Speaker B: Crush it. Okay, so I know that this is familiar to so many people listening. As designers, our styles evolve. And you so eloquently and candidly shared with me that, like, this was a big pain point for you, that over the course of your career, your personal style has changed. Our resources widen, our design experiences deepen, and your personal style evolves. How have you managed to transition the brand while.
Transition the brand with the evolution of your personal style while keeping a cohesive brand identity for hmi?
[00:23:27] Speaker A: So I'm the kind of designer where I very much design for my clients. I'm not one of the designers where it's like, you get what you get and you don't get upset. Like, you hire me. This is what you get. That is not how I work. You know, I love designing with my clients, with them in mind. They're all different. It's their home. It's not mine. And so, you know, I have some clients who love color. I have some clients who hate color. I have some clients who like a vintage flare. I have some that like more modern. So I do think that my projects all vary depending on the end user. I am not traditional. That is one thing I cannot do. If a client or a potential client calls me and they want a traditional home, a traditional style, I'm not the person for them. But I can, you know, sort of be a chameleon with my style. That being said, I used to be like, well, what is this common thread that Hillary has? And it's just funny, and I don't even know what it is, but if you put, you know, 10 pictures in front of you of different projects of mine, they all do feel like me, even though some have color, some are more neutral, you know, but there is something that does feel like my own personal style threaded through them, and I feel like you can tell that it's a project done by me.
So I do feel like my personal style has changed through the years, but at the same time, I feel like not. Not so much. I feel like definitely, you know, my resources have grown and, you know, where I source from and what I do, and some styles, definitely. You know, I think that when I first started, there was a lot in grays. Then it went more to beige. Now the grays are sort of back, so I feel like there's, like, the natural style just in design that happens. And I try not to be so trendy. I do like funky things and interesting things, but I do like longevity. And for a client to be able to, you know, live in their home for a while before feeling like, oh, this is so dated, and I need to redo it now.
So I think, you know, timeless design or, you know, just something that lasts a while is important. But I do feel like I don't know how I started is sort of how I am now. And, you know, I know one of the things we discuss is, like, you know, how my. My branding when I first started versing versus my branding now, it's actually very similar.
I just rebranded myself. Well, when I say rebranded, I mean, like, I have a new logo and everything, but it's really. I picked it out, which is like so funny. And I was looking at it and I was like, this looks literally just like my first logo. It's like so ridiculous. I spent so much time going through it and all these different options. And of course the one I pick is like legitimately the same thing as my first one. So I do feel like I have still stayed true to myself and my style. But, you know, just swapping out a few little things.
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What are some of the ways that you're able to present your brand to feel a little more cohesive? I know you said that like when you look at your portfolio, like it still feels like you, even if one has a lot of color and one doesn't.
Are there things that you have put into practice, whether it was with your branding, like what was it that made that first logo actually really work and be flexible across those.
Are you using the same photographers every time or do you have photography guidelines that you're giving different photographers? What are some action items that someone could put into practice to help their portfolio feel more cohesive, even if they are really passionate about designing exactly for that individual client?
[00:28:12] Speaker A: So I my photo, I use the same photographer on every single shoot and the same stylist on every shoot. I think once you find someone who really gets you and who you're happy with, like keep them around, I think it's really hard to find someone you vibe with. And you know, I feel like that makes a huge difference. I mean, I know this Is not what you're asking, but I think a stylist for a shooter completely change the way my rooms photograph. You know, it seems so funny, right? An interior designer who styles homes needs to hire a stylist for a shoot. But like, when you shoot a room, it is completely different in a picture than how it looks in person. And she turned my photos from like a zero to 1 million. Like, she makes such a difference in my pictures. I. I was like, I could never have another photo shoot without a stylist because it really makes your pictures look like a million bucks. But, you know, I won something, made a mistake, and I did a shoot of a house. I did, and my photographer, who I always, always use was not available at the time and I used someone else. And you know, the pictures are pretty, but they're just not what my other ones look like. And I feel like it wasn't a complete waste, but, you know, I just really wish I would have waited for my original photographer to be available. So I do think if you find someone, use them for everything. And I do feel like that creates a common thread of your pictures as well. And, and I think, you know, magazines and stuff like a common thread, right? They like when, you know, a portfolio is submitted to them and they all sort of, you know, read the same. And I don't know, I've just learned that that's, that's the better way to approach photography, which is expensive and tricky. So I feel like if you're going to invest in photography of your projects, which everyone should, because I feel like it makes a difference, you really have to make sure that you're using the right people, so that shines.
[00:30:07] Speaker B: I think that a photographer and a stylist, they can get the right vibe. And that vibe can be the same throughout each project, no matter how different the projects are. So it's about creating the vibe. Let's talk about if your style has evolved or maybe maybe a project utilized something that did feel a little bit more trendy at the time or just no longer suits where the type of projects you want to be booking. Do you ever decide, decide when to edit out something from your portfolio? Can you talk us through that?
[00:30:41] Speaker A: Yeah. I feel like all the time I'm removing projects from my website from my portfolio. I just feel, you know, it's not that they're dated. I almost feel like I become sick of them a little bit. I've looked at them like a million times, and I feel like the newer projects just represent me and my brand in a Better light.
And so I'm always constantly editing them. And you know, of course my, I mean, hasn't evolved so much. But of course if you look at a picture of something I did eight years ago versus now, it's going to look a little different. So I just feel like to edit your portfolio to make it feel very up to date with what a client would get at that moment is important.
[00:31:21] Speaker B: I think a good reminder for people listening to is you don't always have to hide an entire portfolio project you can go through. And maybe it's that you're getting down to just the kitchen, dining room and living and maybe the, you know, secondary bedrooms and bathrooms were no longer serving you. You don't have to completely wipe the slate clean, but to be constantly kind of looking at your own portfolio with. Through an editorial lens and through a prospective client lens. On an episode to Jake Arnold way at the beginning the, like the first season of our show, he talked about how looking at every potential project and thinking, in three years, is this project going to propel me forward or will it hold me back? And I want you to be thinking about your portfolio work the same way. Is this going to get me a project that I'm going to be really excited about and propel me forward, or is this going to be doing a project that I feel like I did five years ago and it's not, it's no longer serving me?
[00:32:15] Speaker A: Definitely. And I also think tailoring your portfolio to the potential client that you're speaking with, I think that, that I do that all the time. You know, I'll take things out. I'll be like, you know, this client I don't think would vibe with this or this is more their style. And I'll, I'll edit things out. And then, you know, if they want to see more, then I can always send them more pictures. But I think tailoring towards the potential client and also just updating in general is very important.
[00:32:41] Speaker B: Okay. Okay, now I want to dig into that a little bit more. I'm curious when you say you're tailoring your portfolio, that you're sending a potential client.
In my head, someone's just looking at whatever's on your website. Talk to me about, what do you mean you're sending them things?
[00:32:56] Speaker A: So there, at least for me, there's a lot of projects that I have that I can't release onto my website yet because they're being held by editorial or I'm pitching them out to a magazine. So I feel like I always have four to five projects that are photographed that aren't on my website. So I'll use those still for potential clients. And also I feel like it's interesting for them to then see more. They look at your website, they see, you know, six different projects, but then you're able to send them a separate portfolio with some that haven't been seen by anyone else. So it's exciting for them to see. And it's also something else. And so I'll sometimes, you know, send an additional PDF to them with work that I think that they would be into.
[00:33:38] Speaker B: That is so helpful. Thank you for breaking that down, Hillary. Okay. Something else I'm super fascinated by you is that you're currently really working to expand your brand touch points beyond traditional design services. And this is part of, like, your whole evolution. I would love for you to explain to me what that means and what intentional steps you're taking to do so. Like, what is it in your eyes? What are additional brand touch points besides your services?
[00:34:08] Speaker A: So I want to bring Hillary Matt Interiors into every home. And what I mean by saying that is doing, you know, more brand collaborations, designing product lines. I have a lighting collaboration coming out in January 2026, which I'm really excited about. More, more projects like that. So of course, still designing for my clients, but also, you know, other things so that other people can have a little bit of Hillary Matt even if, you know, they can't hire me or they don't hire me. So I. I don't know. I've been sort of, besides from the lighting collection, I've been sort of trying to dabble a little bit in accessories and what I want to do for that, I'm going to launch. I guess when this comes live, it'll already be up on my website, but I'm creating a couple of different accessories and I'm going to do a couple of drops on my website and I'm only going to make, you know, 50 to 60 of them and people can buy them and when they're gone, they're gone and sort of just, you know, test the waters of that. But, you know, I love, I don't know, I would love to grow my brand and accessories and all that sort of stuff that I've always been interested in. So more of that to come.
[00:35:18] Speaker B: That's so exciting. So your VP that you just brought on, I feel like a lot of this probably falls in their wheelhouse. I'm curious if, in addition to VP who really works on your brand development and brand growth, do you also have Like a PR team. Who are some people that you have outsourced that you are putting into place to help kind of get this going?
[00:35:41] Speaker A: Yes. So I have a PR team, brand identity, PR shout out. I've worked with them for, oh, a long time. I'm trying to think like four or five years now. So they're great. They're the ones who pitch out all of my photos. They bring a lot of different ideas to the table. They bring me different collaborations. They're really great. So I feel like that if you have the little bit of money, sometimes a lot of money to give towards a PR firm, I feel like they're really helpful in growing a brand and I definitely wouldn't be able to do it without them. I think that they've been so helpful, even just, you know, for feedback or someone to talk through everything with.
They've been great. So definitely a PR firm for me has been extremely helpful in growing my brand.
And then I feel like my career coach is a big part of all of this as well.
[00:36:30] Speaker B: Yeah, let's talk about a career coach.
[00:36:33] Speaker A: Yeah, so I've never had one before. I've been working with her for the past year. So this all sort of came about when I did my switch of my company and, you know, I restructured it all. I realized I needed the help and I hired this amazing career coach. Her name is Elizabeth Pearson and she has been life changing for me and for my business.
She has really helped me realize things I need to focus on, not focus on the important things. And she's also been very helpful to my team. She's done meetings with my team to go over that with things with them and, you know, how they work and the best way for them to work.
So I really do feel like someone else to be able to talk to about everything and give me guidance has been amazing for me and for growing my business. So she's, she's great.
[00:37:26] Speaker B: How did you decide on Elizabeth? Like, does Elizabeth work pretty much strictly with interior designers? Was she a referral? Did you just Google someone?
And how do you feel? Well, go ahead and answer that. And of course I have follow up questions.
[00:37:41] Speaker A: I have a friend, my friend Stephanie Gottlieb, who's a jeweler, introduced me to Elizabeth. She was going through some similar growing pains as me and so she's like, you need to talk to her. And so I did and we clicked. And I think I might be her only interior designer. She works with, you know, CEOs and people all over the world and she's she's just wonderful and I don't know, I wouldn't be able to do it without her.
[00:38:08] Speaker B: Okay, and then how do you feel? Do you feel like it's an asset that she doesn't necessarily work in the industry because she can look at it completely from a different eye? Or do you feel like there's some things that like, you kind of had to explain how things work in order for her to really, like, be her most valuable?
[00:38:28] Speaker A: So our industry is tricky and I do feel like you kind of, if, you know, you know, kind of thing. So I definitely have to explain things to her. But she gets it and, you know, the business is a business just like anyone else's. And so that's what's helpful to me. And it's almost nice to have someone who's not in the business to talk about it with and give me another perspective. So I've, I've liked that she isn't in the business and I feel like, you know, everything I discuss with her is more, you know, issues that anyone would have or problems and problems with a client would be a problem someone else would have with a client, you know, so it's not really industry specific issues, if that makes sense. But she's more than happy to help me with any of that. So I don't know, I think it's kind of nice that she's not in the industry and then, you know, any industry problems I have, I could talk with any of the people on my team or now my vp, so. And I have some friends in the industry too. But she's, she's great in your experience.
[00:39:23] Speaker B: And I'm sure that there's so many career coaches, business coaches that work differently. Like, what kind of time investment are you putting into meeting with this person?
[00:39:34] Speaker A: So we meet every two weeks about, and we meet for an hour over zoom and like, you know, that time in between when we speak, I usually come up with a list of things I want to discuss with her. If something comes up, I just jot it down. And then on our time together, we go through it all. And you know, she, she helps me on a personal level too, of course, with my, you know, my personal life and my social life to make sure that, you know, everything is well balanced, which I think is very important. And she's also very spiritual, which I love. And so I've gotten into, you know, different things. Like, I carry. Sounds so silly. I carry like rocks in my bag with me that are like for, you know, for success or for, you know, all different things. When I go to a meeting, I'll bring certain rocks with me. I charge them at night.
So I've definitely become more spiritual. And she's helped me with like manifesting, which I think is really huge. And I mean, I've. So many things I've manifested have come true. I mean, it's wild.
So it's, you know, all of those things she helps me with, which I love.
[00:40:33] Speaker B: Amazing. So let's talk business, service model, profit strategy. Let's talk pricing. How are you currently structuring your fees? Is it flat rate, hourly? A combination? What have you come up with, especially after this evolution and now a much larger team.
[00:40:51] Speaker A: I don't charge hourly. I know that's going to come shocking to a lot of people. I don't like it. I think that it's hard to keep track of. I don't think that it's always honest in my opinion. And I. When my lawyer sends me a bill for hours, I am so mad and I don't even want to talk to him ever again. And I don't want my clients to ever feel that way about me or my team. I want them to feel like they could always, of course there's boundaries, but I want them to feel like they could always come to us, call us, email us, text me, and not feel like just because they're sending me one text they're going to be charged a fee. That's just the way I believe it should be how I want my company set up. So hourly is not for me and I don't do it. People have tried to pressure me into doing it, but I just can't. I can't do it. I know it's like an industry standard, I feel like, but I just don't do it. So the way that we work is we charge a fee to hire us, which covers all of our hours, all of our time. It basically gives you everything you need for your project. Floor plans, storyboards, ideas.
And then we charge commission on the discounted price of all of the furnishings.
And another thing that we do, which I feel like people are always shocked and it's not also what everyone else does in the industry is I prefer to put everything on my clients credit cards. I don't want them to pay me and then I have to place all the orders for them. I feel like there's more transparency that way. Orders get placed much quicker.
My clients are so happy to get the miles and points on their credit cards. So that's just the way that we do it. That's the way I've always done it, and it works for us.
[00:42:33] Speaker B: Okay, brilliant. I love it. No, I love that commitment to service. And I'm just a big fan of the concept of unreasonable hospitality. That's like a whole nother episode to get into. But I think that that sounds amazing. I want to back up to your commission on discounted products.
In other words, what you are calling markup is maybe a more familiar term, but walk me through what that looks like, especially when you are putting the order on your client's credit card.
[00:43:03] Speaker A: So every place that we purchase an item from the client gets our discount. So that depends on the vendor. You know, there's some vendors where we get wholesale. There's some vendors where we get 40% off. There are some vendors that give us 15% off. There's some vendors that don't even give a discount at all.
But whatever that discount is is directly given to the client. So they get, you know, there's no going into the showroom and the. And, you know, the employee in the showroom's like, can I tell them the trade price? Like, of course, tell them the trade price. There's no secrets. There's no secrets of us. Like, they get our price so that, you know, price is charged on their credit card. They get our discount, and then our commission is based off of that discounted price. So we charge 30% commission and that. That's, you know, charged on what they pay.
[00:43:46] Speaker B: Got it. Okay. So essentially, cost plus 30% is what your market standard is. Great. And then how about, like, when you get to the project management part, is that still under your flat rate? And how are you protecting yourself when, I don't know, there's delays or whatever happens or client needs more assistance than maybe what would was originally in the scope. How are you kind of like putting up those guardrails?
[00:44:14] Speaker A: Good question.
So there is technically in our contract something that says after. I think it's a year, after a year of working together, you know, it's subject to another fee. Like, if it goes past that certain amount of time. I honestly haven't even once ever charged a client that, but technically I could. And I guess if there was a situation that was, you know, we were spending too much time on, or way more than we should be, I would go and I would invoice the client for some sort of fee to continue that. But, you know, we are always prepared and we always allocate enough time for issue. I mean, there's always issues. Nothing's ever on time Everything's always late. And so I feel like that's just sort of what we expect. I mean, and, you know, we have some clients who are walking the park and some that aren't, and that's okay.
And. And you know, we know how to deal with all of them, and we're okay with however long it takes, as long as the client is happy in the end.
[00:45:12] Speaker B: I think that this model probably sounds fabulous to a lot of people listening. And so can you share a little bit about how you're coming up with that initial flat fee? Is it like there's a flat fee to work with Hilary Matt interiors, period, no matter the size of the project, or you are still giving a custom proposal with a flat fee per project.
[00:45:33] Speaker A: So forever, like, meaning the last seven years until about now, I've always had just a fee. And that's my fee, is my fee, no matter the size of the job. And it sort of weeded out the smaller jobs that we don't always want to or have time to take on. But I think that since my VP has started, she sort of pushed back on me a little bit. And she was like, a ground up build shouldn't be the same price as this. So I don't know, we're sort of working through it. I love how easy it is to just be like, this is my fee.
But I do think that maybe it should be adjusted a bit based on, you know, if it's a ground up build versus just decorating a house or an apartment. But, you know, forever it has been just one fee.
Another thing that I do, which I feel like is a little different than some other designers is if I get hired for a ground up build and I'm helping design bathrooms in a kitchen, instead of charging commission on plumbing, you know, cabinetry, hardware, tile, marble, instead of charging commission on each of those things, I'll usually just come up with, and that is based on the amount of bathrooms, but I'll usually just come up with a number, a flat fee to charge to design all the bathrooms in the kitchen. So that's something that's like a separate fee that would be charged to someone who's building a house if they wanted our help with that stuff.
[00:46:53] Speaker B: And that makes sense since often a builder wants to order those things anyway because they're making their commission on that. So that would just be a separate fee. Okay, got it. It. My brain is just like spinning right now. I'm like, that is so fascinating. Okay.
No, don't apologize. I love to hear this. This is what we're here for.
How are you with a team of 14 plus you, are you having your team still track their time? Like, how. How are you or how are. Is your VP analyzing these projects to be like, yes. And this was in fact profitable?
[00:47:28] Speaker A: That's a good question. So, no, they are not tracking their time. I did for a period have them track their time for about three months just to like, sort of see how much time people were spending. And it was a disaster. No one was stopping their time tracking. They were working 24 hours a day. It's just like the girls in my office are not used to tracking their hours. So I don't know if there's really a way that we can figure out if a project is indeed profitable. But I do, you know, feel like we know when too much time is being spent on a project or.
And you know, with all of our different projects, again, it balances each other out. There's, you know, some projects that are just super easy and some projects that just take more time. And I just feel like it's just the cost of doing business. And you know, I think if one is taking too long and we're spending all of our time on it. Well, the one that was super easy, that we're making a lot of money on, it sort of helped out the other one. So I just, just feel like it's sort of, I don't know, I don't know how I probably should track it, but I don't.
[00:48:30] Speaker B: And.
[00:48:31] Speaker A: And again, if a project is going way beyond the timeline and it's, you know, super, you know, time consuming and hard and, you know, it's a difficult client, I would totally send a bill for, you know, extra hours or extra time, but I really haven't been in that position yet.
[00:48:50] Speaker B: Can we talk about. Because it sounds like you have wonderful clients. Can we talk about as you've grown and you know, you had, like you said, because you have like a standard flat fee, it helps to weed out some projects that you don't have the capacity to take on even if you wanted to. How are you qualifying leads and vetting new clients to fit within your team? Within like your team's capabilities, but also your evolving taste. Like you said, every project feels like you, but there are certain things that have changed over time. So how are you?
How are you getting such amazing clients?
[00:49:28] Speaker A: So I feel very lucky to have such great clients, but I do the, you know, I feel like this is something we've actually been starting to change. This is something that vp, my VP has been asking me since she started. I have an inquiry form on my website that people can go to and, and fill out, and then we get an email, basically.
And then from there someone on my team responds, finds out a little bit more about the project, and then if it sounds like a fit, then I'll get on a call with them to talk about. But we, we just. I don't even know if I didn't check yet if it's been on my website yet, but we just expanded the inquiry form to have more information. So we have them fill out like the square footage where the house is or apartment, you know, what they're looking to do, what the budget is. So I feel like that now is going to be really helpful for us to sort of weed out the ones that would be the right fit or that aren't the right fit. Another thing that I feel like always works is intuition. I feel like sometimes I'll talk to client or potential clients in the beginning and I'll be like, red flag, red flag. I should not take this one on. And I've taken some on before that I thought that I shouldn't, and I was right and I shouldn't have taken them on. But I feel like intuition is also a big part of it, and if it feels like someone you can work well with, then take it on. If not, then don't. I think that a relationship between a client and an interior designer is so intimate, and you are in their house and you are talking to them all the time, and you really have to connect with that person and work well with them or it's not going to work and it's going to be a disaster. So I think it's a mix of knowing if you can work well with them, if they sound like a nice person, and then if the job, of course, is the right fit. But I think finding out all the information at the beginning so that you're not surprised, you know, once you start with them. I think a budget is important to talk about at the beginning, to know what to expect. And yeah, I think that getting all that information out at first is the best way to approach it.
[00:51:22] Speaker B: Before we let you go. I, I'm.
I feel like one of the biggest apprehensions designers have when they're really thinking about scaling their business and they're in this mindset of operating as a startup. I want to be a business. I want this to be something that can run without me literally there every single second of every day doing the work.
Is there fear of losing Creative control. Because like you, so many people started this because they want to be designers.
How do you advise people balance creative leadership with day to day business responsibilities?
[00:51:55] Speaker A: I think that that was very hard for me and is still hard for me to this day and was one of the issues that I dealt with when growing my business and even now growing my business. I think that it's all about hiring the right team and people on your team who have the same vision as you and who you trust. And you know, it's impossible to do it all. And I do feel like, like in order to grow, you have to lose a little bit of that creative vision. But you know, it's being the people who are helping to execute it are just people on your team who you brought onto the team who can execute your vision just like you would. And I think that putting trust in others, you know, is important. And also like what I was saying before, knowing what you like and what you don't like. I love to be creative. I want to be more creative so to delegate those tasks that I don't want to do to someone else so that I can actually sit and design a house and I don't have to do the business side of things.
So I think realizing what you want to do and what you can do and how much you can have on your plate really will help to, you know, create a firm or a business that you know is the most successful that it could be. And I think that losing creative freedom is scary, but I think you have to do it to grow and, and you'll still be behind it all. So as long as you, you know, hire the right people. So I'm lucky. I have an amazing team and they all work really well together and work really well with me. And you know, we have, we all have the same end goal. So I trust that they will make Hillary Mountain Terriers the best that it could possibly be.
[00:53:31] Speaker B: Well, Hilary, I know that you have a camper getting off a bus right now. We are so excited to see that lighting collection come out and we're so excited to accept to shop your accessories drop. We will make sure that that is included in the show notes when this live later this fall. Thank you so much for your time. You've given me so much to think about and I just love that at the end of the day, you really are a creative who puts a service first.
[00:53:56] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun.
[00:53:58] Speaker B: I'll talk to you soon. Bye. Bye.
[00:54:01] Speaker C: For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more. Don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] the Interior Collective thank you so so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. A big, huge thank you to our production team at IDCO Studio and Quinn made. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMS and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible.
Until next time. I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living.
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