[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: Hi and welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey, and today I'm sitting down with Jess Weth, founder of Weth Home. Jess has built a studio known for not just beautiful, thoughtful work, but for long term client relationships that extend well beyond a single project.
And that's exactly what we're unpacking today. Instead of focusing on one finished space, we're talking about how designers can intentionally build their businesses to support repeat clients, multi phase projects and long term trust. In this episode, we're diving into what it actually takes to move from one off engagements to ongoing relationships. How you structure your services, how you communicate early on, and how your process either invites clients back or quietly pushes them away. We'll talk about operational decisions, price and confidence, confidence, boundaries, and the systems that make longevity possible, not just creatively, but sustainably from a business perspective. Jess will also walk us through how Weth Home is structured today, how our team operates, how they charge for their work, and what's changed as the studio has matured. If you're thinking about how to grow your business without constantly chasing new leads, this conversation's for you. This season is presented by Laloi, makers of rugs, pillows and wall art collections that are grounded in ethical production, innovative craft and meticulous design. Learn more about Lalo Loy by visiting their website loy rugs.com that's L O L O I rugs.com and follow the Loy Rugs on Instagram and TikTok.
Hi Jess. Welcome to the show. We were just chatting offline about how I can't believe this is the first time we're actually having conversation when we've worked together multiple times.
It feels a little surreal. I know, it's just crazy. Well, I'm so grateful for you to be chatting with us today about repeat clients because I know it took us digging that out of you for you to even realize, like, wait, we do have a lot of repeat clients.
But I want to go ahead and dive in and as you know on the show, it's always helpful to have like a basic understanding of your foundation, where the business is. And for anybody who's not familiar with you, which is a mistake and they should be now, but to understand just kind of like what your business model is and how everything works. So to start us off, can you share a little bit about Weth Home today and how the studio has really evolved from where you first began?
[00:02:29] Speaker C: Began?
[00:02:30] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And thank you for having me on. I can't. I can't wait to share.
Yeah. So our firm is a, you know, small but mighty team of five focusing on residential design in a. Based in a beach town in Delaware. So we're based in Rehoboth Beach.
It's the town where I grew up, moved away for a while and then moved back.
So it's a small community, but has really been growing a lot. So we opened our studio in 2019. So it's been about six years at this point. I was doing the side hustle thing for a year and a half before taking the leap, getting the space, getting the building and diving in full time and started with myself and a project manager who is still with us today and kind of steers our obstacles side of the business and then have since grown to have my husband and business partner, Alan, come on full time three and a half years ago. And we have two designers on staff as well. One that's been with us for over four years and one for two and a half.
So we. I've been very grateful to have kind of a small but very steady team as we've kind of intentionally grown at a like a moderate pace to allow us to take on bigger projects but still stay close to everything.
[00:04:04] Speaker B: I love that pacing. That sounds like a dream team size.
With the five people, can you tell us how many projects? That's usually like your ideal number. Sweet spot of projects you're carrying at once.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: Yeah, we.
Our sweet spot is really 10 projects. We are a little above that right now.
As you know, you cannot always predict the length of time that projects take and the pacing. And that's one thing that we are really learning a little bit as we take on bigger and longer term projects.
Projects that get into multiple phases, estates that have different portions and take breaks in between.
So we're kind of still learning that. But I would say our sweet spot is. Is 10. And we just pray that they don't all fall with mechanical walks like on the same day, which you can't always predict. But. But yes, 10 is kind of like our sweet spot.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: That's actually amazing. That's a lot of projects for a team of five people.
And talk about the scope, are you mostly. I know that you're in an area that has a lot of historic properties. Are you doing a lot of renovations? Are you doing complete remodels or new builds? Pretty consistently, I would say.
[00:05:22] Speaker A: While I love historic renovations, that is a smaller portion of what we get to do. We really sink our teeth in when we get those.
However, new builds are definitely over 50% of what we do.
So we're really though have shifted from, you know, it's hard to believe six or seven years ago it would be like one room or one, you know, we've really shifted to full home. So full renovations or full new builds from the ground up. That includes the interiors side of things as well. But it is, it is still, we're in the new build game for sure and there is quite a bit of flipping of properties down here at the beach especially.
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[00:06:50] Speaker B: Okay, and last question about how everything's set up. So you have the 5 of all of y', all, your husband Alan that we worked with is on the team. Can you just kind of describe what like the corporate structure of that is and within that, like kind of what the workflow is? Like, how involved are you on every project? How much are you handing over to senior designers if that's what your system is?
[00:07:09] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So he and I divide. Although he is a very creative person, he really is on the op side of things. So he is all kind of head of operations, finances and like sourcing logistics. So anything that falls into that camp is in Alan's stead. And then I'm overseeing all of creative, which, you know, is obviously all of our projects, but does extend into like the brand side of social or marketing or any of those efforts as well.
And then in terms terms of projects for the team, we do divide, I would say like 90% of our projects. One of the project leads is either my senior designer or designer level. So I split most of them with usually one or two at a given time that I'm like the true lead on. And what that means for us is just the communication side of what clients are seeing. That's kind of how we determine that lead. But my hands are really like in all of our projects still. And I think that's where the teen size and I think we'll get into this a Little more as we talk with the town that we're in, with the type of work we like to do, with the intimacy of our projects. I think that's still where I feel comfortable is being able to be present for all of those major milestones, but also allowing the team to like, flex their creative wings and really take the lead on execution as well.
[00:08:38] Speaker B: Amazing. Okay, thank you so much, Jess, for spelling all that out.
Okay, so today we are talking about the concept of repeat clients. And I know that you did mention that we helped make you aware of, like, how much that is, but when you think about repeat clients specifically, at what point did you realize if you did that they were becoming a really meaningful part of your business and not just like a bonus?
[00:09:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think it was pretty early on that.
Although maybe it didn't like dawn on me how important it was, how it happened pretty quickly that a few clients came back. And I think a little bit of a function of that was starting with smaller projects and them realizing, okay, you know, I really like working with Jess to do my living room, I'm going to do a full scale renovation. You know, let's move, let's kind of bump this up in terms of scope.
So I, I saw that very early on, but I think for me to really, you know, be able to describe how important it is, it's almost having to step back to like our community and how small it is and how referral based it is and how important it is to kind of develop that trust and, you know, as soon as you win that project, treat that relationship as something that is going to last beyond, you know, the last pillow you deliver, the last, you know, piece of hardware you put on the kitchen. Like, you're going to see those people in the grocery store, you're going to see those people like on the boardwalk of the beach club, like, it's going to happen. And I think for me, that was always something that, you know, trumped any design ego or anything. Like that was really to say, like, ultimately, like, my client's happiness is the absolute of whether this is a successful project or not.
So I think that was something that, you know, happened early on and I started to realize, okay, wow, that person had enjoyed their experience so much that they, you know, told their friend, like, you have to, you know, reach out to Jess if you have this. And that was something for me, really starting on my own and not having like a firm that I had worked for before or having any industry or relationship ties, like that was integral for me. To be able to actually, like, say, I can do this and step out on my own was like that trust that, that clients put into me really from. From the start.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: Let's talk about that from the start. So, so many designers are rightfully so, but heavily focused on like, winning that first project.
What do you think actually determines whether a client comes back for a second or third engagement? Especially?
I see most of our clients, most of the people we interview here on the show.
When things go south on a project, or not even south, but when things start to like, miss that honeymoon phase is towards the end when construction got drawn out or, you know, something was received damage, and then there's like these final invoices. And sometimes things just don't end with such like a beautiful, you know, pretty bow.
Where do you think is like the real pivotal point of being able to secure that relationship long term and make sure that your clients have that amazing experience?
[00:12:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that is something that when it was just me, or maybe before pre Alan in the business, me and my project manager, I would absolutely, you know, do anything to make that relationship end on a good note. And I think what that I would really try to understand, try to listen, develop that trust. But I, if I'm being completely honest, like, it took a toll on, on me a little bit too early on, right? The text messages, you know, outside of business hours, the like, staying up and losing sleep because this person's table, you know, broke. And it really had nothing to do with me. But, you know, I want to make it right. And I think what expressing that care, that concern and not running away from the problem, I think is something that I didn't do then. And I think that stays true, you know, today. But I think what we're able to do now is really steward the process all the way through and be that team player that is always advocating for them. Even if it's something that financially, you know, we can't fix. For example, if it's something that was on a build side, like, we are not running away from the problem or passing the buck. We're the one that's kind of like, okay, we're going to get to a meaningful resolution on this.
And I think having myself or Alan be the one that is a part of those conversations, even if it's something that, you know, our senior designer was handling up until a certain point, like, that's when the owner, principal comes in and, you know, really tries to make sure that we're doing everything that we can to correct that. That problem or to even just share our experience of how we could help or how this goes. Because I think a lot of times, you know, it's the first time, a lot of them are the second time that they're seeing this. And I think that's another, you know, experience. And years of doing this gives you a little bit better perspective on, okay, this is something that is to be expected or, no, you shouldn't settle for this. And being able to kind give those the wise words, maybe that they need to hear. Because I think if, you know, you're. You're doing your job as. As a designer and really getting to know them, the trust is there, and they're. They're trusting you. A lot of times we see more than anyone because of the amount of communication we have with them. By the time we're at that point, we've gone through architectural review, we've gone through mechanicals, we've gone through every, you know, cabinetry, window treatment, trim on a pillow. Like, they. They look to us to be that one, to.
To care at the end of the day and when everyone else has kind of fallen away, like, we're still. We're still there. So I think it's knowing that, you know, you gotta address it head on. And, you know, 90% of the time, you're with, you know, people who are reasonable and they just want to be heard and they want to know that they're cared for. Hmm.
[00:15:07] Speaker B: Okay. I'm probably jumping around a little bit here, but I know from designers who are maybe newer than you or have a smaller studio than you, they are hearing this and being like, well, that's all amazing. Like, I can sit there and fight for my client when it's, you know, a builder issue or something else comes up. But a lot of times they also end up kind of being the punching bag in some ways. And there are cases that I've heard that they end up being the financial burden where. Whether that's because construction went over budget and now they're cutting, you know, design fees at the end, or they don't get to do the full furniture install because they ran out of budget after construction, how do you continue to, like, keep it really upbeat and that, you know, you're very trustworthy and pleasant and polished with them when you feel like you might be getting, you know, the short end of the stick, it's hard.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: And I think, like, this is something, to be honest, that we. We learn a little bit every year, and some things get adjusted in contracts. Some things, I think when it comes to design fees, one thing that we have started to do is every time we send out an invoice, you know, we give an estimate, we have an hourly rate and we give an estimate right, of what we think this project is going to take. It's a range.
It's like, okay, we bill monthly as they are accrued. And I think one thing that has really helped us make sure that clients are prepared is really giving them that snapshot where we are to budget and where we are in the process as we're sending those invoices so that they are seeing like, okay, I'm this far along with my build, but this percentage of my design fees are being used. Like, a lot of times we're trying to use that as a signal of, okay, you need to be more decisive or we're going to have to, you know, increase the amount of design fees to get this right at the end of the day. So I think that's one small, like, process driven thing that has helped. And that was something that Alan kind of instituted because before he came on board, I was doing that. I was short changing. I felt bad that, you know, we're, you know, as a young designer, you want everything to be right and get to the end. You do end up taking from yourself. But I do think that's something that we have gotten a lot better at from a, from a tracking standpoint. And I think they feel heard and picking up the phone too, and saying like, I think that's another thing is like, some of the money conversations can be scary and then it feels easier to email or it feels easier maybe to kind of beat around the bush or just kind of throw it in with something else. But I think we found that actually, like, face to face or on the phone is a lot better way if we're having some kind of a sticking point to actually address the issue head on and then, you know, right then and there, if they have any questions about it, if they're feeling weird about it. Whereas, you know, you can see silence on the end of an email and be like, what are they? You know, what's going on in their head? So I think those two things are things when it comes to design fees and just making sure we're not getting shortchanged at the end of a long, A long process that we've instituted.
[00:18:22] Speaker B: Oh, Jess, that's so helpful. Thank you so much for spelling that out. And that's such a great tip. I love when you're sending those monthly invoices to just Kind of have like a tracker with it and be like, okay, we're at, you know, we're at 70% of the way, but you still haven't picked, you know, your cabinet profiles, so we've got a ways to go. Okay, so how intentionally, and maybe this is like, what your plan is after having this conversation when I really, like, pulled it out of you, that you guys have a ton of repeat clients, but, like, how intentionally do you think about longevity when structuring a client's first project with you? Especially because you are in such a small community. You grew up there like, you know, your. Your doctor's the same doctor he had before. It's like, it's like a full on Hallmark movie.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: So I'll see my client.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: Yes, exactly.
And so how are you thinking about longevity?
Especially maybe going back a few years when you were still taking on one or two room projects? Like, what is the end game? You're like, I know that maybe they're not ready for this full renovation right now, but I do see that on the Runway if we stick it out a couple more years with them.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: You know, it's funny, I was thinking about that a little bit heading into this conversation and how my perspective on it has actually changed a little bit. And I think there was.
There was like the beginning stages where you're just like, happy and eager to get what you can, right? And then you're like, yes, I of course want this to. To do their full house, but let me nail their living room first. Or in the case of, you know, one of my, like, favorite to this day, like most shared projects, was a second project that the first project I had to, you know, kind of prove that I was doing the kids bedrooms and then got to do, and then, you know, that led into one of our biggest projects to date.
I think one of the things that, like, hits me more and more, the more mature I get as a designer, is how the best houses really do, like, evolve over time and how the process can be joyful and lovely, which is hard to say sometimes because, you know, you are so focused on being just, like, efficient. And there was a time where I feel like this turnkey house, which we still do, I still think that is a part of our business, but where everything is scrapped and everything is new and then you're done, you turn over the keys and that's it. I think that was like the gold standard in my head for a long time. And now the more that I do this and the more I get a chance to work on just. It's not even a state so much as the size, but these homes that are generational and, you know, maybe the grandparents did it and then, you know, the younger generation is bringing in and they're going to add to it. Like, I think there's something like, so special about that and something that just can't be.
Yeah. Snapped off at a certain point.
And I think there's a muddiness to contracts and all of those things that need to get hammered out to do it successfully. But, you know, we're working on a couple of projects right now where we're doing different dwellings on the property and they're all going to have different phases. So you're going to have to get comfortable with that idea that, yes, you maybe close the book on one, but you're going to have to start that process again on the next part of the project. And like, man, that could actually be amazing because you can hit the ground running, you know, that client, and you can kind of lead them a little more easily without having to do the dance of figuring out their style, but also how they like to communicate and do they. Are they saying yes? Because they really love it. And then they're going to have questions later. You know, all those things, like, you've kind of hit your stride with the getting to know them side of it. So I think, yeah, it's like, it's. I see that being more and more a part of what we do and that not necessarily being something that is a mark of it not being a clean break. I think it's like, it's a good thing logistically.
[00:22:29] Speaker B: Well, a. I did just want to note that. I think that that's so special about where you're located. It's like it is generational homes. And I think that there's, you know, tons of markets around the country and international where that isn't the case. But it is common and particularly like vacation homes. Often vacation homes are the ones that end up being passed down through generations. Do you feel like you're designing mostly primary residences or is it vacation homes? Where does that kind of sit?
[00:22:57] Speaker A: It is, I would say, like, only because we've done the statistics half and half. It's. We really are half primary residences. And I do think that we get a fair amount of projects, like, outside of our town, we do, like east coast.
But I would say it's. It's split. And I think that there are differences to each of those and how we approach them.
[00:23:18] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. Okay. And then a logistics question. When you are talking about a project that, like you said, there's multiple dwellings and like they're going to get to the, you know, the carriage house in the future, whatever that looks like. How do you close out a project?
Like, like, are you taking steps to officially close out this phase? And then when they're ready to start that one, do you have a new contract signed? Is it an addendum? How do you like, LE legally cover that?
[00:23:45] Speaker A: We usually, if it's a completely different building, then it will have like its own contract. I do think that there are instances where we have kind of added onto our contract in the sense that we didn't give it its complete own timeline with separate meeting dates. And I think that's like a little bit of just maybe we could have. But I think it ended up being a little bit more of an add on and some. But. But I do think if it's a separate building, it's kind of getting its own contract, its own estimates, its own fees, and also its own process. And I think for us that's really important too, because the concept phase for us is really a foundational part of how we design and has really.
That has been an anchor of how we've designed since I started doing it in early days. And I think that's something that I never want to shortchange. Just because we've already started on something, we can't just jump into selections. Like, we have to time out, look back, imagery materials, palette, style, mood, feel. Like all of that is very important.
Even if it's like a sister to the, to the rest of the project, like, it still can't be skipped over. So I do think, like from a process side, like, it gets its own and we've always.
Yeah, it's interesting. From the beginning, I've always presented two concepts and that's. I still do that to this day.
And they're not, they're never worlds apart.
You know, we still go through an intake phase, we still see imagery, we still try to pull as much as we can out of clients. Some have so much to share, others not, not a lot. But for me, that's one of the ways. And maybe that there's something to that. That's one of the ways that I get really candid input really early in a not judgmental setting. And I have guided them to be, you know, one of these two concepts. And usually people knock on wood up until this point are very like torn and like, because they're, again, they're not worlds apart. We're not talking about, like, super modern and, you know, cottage traditional, but it's like, okay, within the, you know, coastal traditional family. Like, here's ways I could see these, you know, being different, and that kind of gets really good inputs out of the gate. So we do that no matter what the scope is.
[00:26:21] Speaker B: Okay. I'm like, scratch everything. We're talking about this now because I'm so fascinated by the two concept phase. Are they, like, fully fleshed out, like, elevations, like, two complete concepts, or you're, like. You're talking about design discovery. Here's like, vibe check to concepts.
[00:26:40] Speaker A: I would say they are. It's a. Gosh, I hate to say it's a little bit of an in between, but usually it is not, like, full elevations of the entire house times two, like that. That definitely would not work out. However, sometimes we will, you know, give a little bit of a glimpse of a rendering of, like, what one kitchen could look like versus another. We're not doing it for every space, right? But we're saying, like, okay, here is how.
Because I think people, you know, have such a hard time making the jump from, like, okay, this inspiration image. And they're like, well, I don't like that light. And you're like, well, it's not that light. You know, we're not talking about that light. We're talking about this overall mood. So for us, it really is helpful to share a imagery that includes, like, mood and layout, but also materials. So we usually, you know, share a small palette of fabrics, but we share, you know, floor color. Trim is super important to us and how we design. And I think it's like a through line that, you know, your casings and your profiles, like, that's going to be in every single room. So we usually include that in a concept. Like, it could be this or that. So we're. We're trying to show them directionally how we could execute your house so that we have a.
A guidepost when we get to the cabinet meeting. It's not the first time we're looking at the style of door profiles or anything like that. We've already kind of, like, set the stage, and again, it really allows us to get really great feedback. A lot of times it is so helpful for the clients. You see their, you know, back and forth of like, okay, I do like this. Like, you're getting them on the same page and kind of maybe. Maybe avoiding some of those, like, marathon meetings. I think when we establish this, we just get a lot of leeway to present and bring them, you Know, we don't shop with our clients anymore in terms of, like, tile or plumbing or, you know, any of that. You know, we're bringing it all here and we're saying this is what you should pick. And I think it really, like, helps them understand how we're getting there.
[00:28:49] Speaker B: This spring, laloy is headed back to High Point Market with so many new and introductions, including a debut rug collection that's made with a groundbreaking new construction, along with a beautiful spring season from Rifle Paper Company. They're also hosting exclusive High Point events in their showroom, including one with designer Amber Lewis. If you haven't already, book your High point
[email protected] loi rugs.com and make sure to follow Loy Rugs on Instagram and TikTok. I also feel like even in our work for branding, a client likes, they're like, I like this. But there's always this element of, like, would I like something more like, yeah, I like this. But I can't be confident that it's what I like the most out of all options. So I definitely understand that having a second concept to look at could really help them honing because then they're comparing A and B and not A to Z, then they are literally just looking at two options and they can have an opinion, but they can make a decision based off of it. So I, I love that. That is so fascinating. Do you ever have clients come back to you and say, hey, you charge hourly. I don't want you to spend time designing two living rooms?
[00:29:58] Speaker A: No, we really have not. And I'm honestly saying that because, like, it's work we would have done anyway and a little bit right, like, we're already exploring, like, what could this be? And I think, and that might be. Every designer might be a little bit different, but I think it gets. Gets a little bit back to like, just how we approach our business is so client focused. It. I, you know, don't necessarily. Maybe this is right or wrong, come in with a magic wand and be like, I see this and I see this and I see that. I think a lot of it is getting to know them. I love it obviously, when the architecture can inform me. That's my, my favorite when the property or the, you know, the architecture really leads us of a historic home or something. But I think when we're talking about new build, I mean, gosh, the options are kind of endless, right? But it's kind of getting them to be decisive along the way. So it's work we really would have done anyway. And we're not.
I think we've done this so many times that we're not spending so much time drilling down to every detail of what that concept could be only to toss it in the. In the trash. Right. It's kind of more like, okay, we like a lot of these images, but these are kind of separating themselves into, you know, a little bit more rustic, a little more laid back, still traditional. But this one is going a little bit more polished. It's going, you know, more into, you know, this palette. Creamier whites versus a little fresher tone. So it's like. It's work we're doing anyway. It's just kind of pulling back the curtain and letting them have input at an early stage that we found to be, like, really helpful.
[00:31:39] Speaker B: Would you say that there's, like, a 15 to 20% overlap of things that are the same in both, or it's like you're not repeating anything in those two?
[00:31:50] Speaker A: Yeah, there's definitely some overlap. Especially, again, if we've gotten great input at the outset, which it's. It's interesting, like, how, you know, some people have so many mood boards, and some people really don't have a lot of imagery to go off of, and you're really guiding them from. And that's where we have to show a little bit more of the breadth, because we really, you know, are trying to get out of them what they want to see without going so far as to have. I think that's where it saves us. And if I were to make the argument to them, saves them of us going really far down a path of one kitchen or one, you know, style of, like, millwork drawings and then being like, whoa, I don't. I don't want it to look like that, you know, So I think it definitely helps. And there's always a little bit of overlap. And I would say, you know, 90% of the time, too, it's not like we can't steal half from this concept and half from that, and it makes sense, but you can steal that light. Like, you love that idea of that. Like, that can certainly come into this. So people are kind of getting to say, like, oh, man, this is tough, but I think I'm leaning more towards this. But if we could go with that floor color, does that work? And, you know, then we kind of have those, you know, conversations of, like, yeah, that could work, but this is how it would impact the, you know, paint colors in your kitchen. But it could definitely work. So I think we get that honest, like, Feedback and buy in early on when we do that.
[00:33:12] Speaker B: Okay, that is so fascinating. Thank you for breaking that down. Okay, talking back to the concept of repeat clients or phased out clients, how does that change your process or the way you communicate and like make decisions, manage timelines compared to first time clients? Because I like you said, you know, every year you guys are kind of like tweaking your process, tweaking your contract.
And I could imagine that there's an instance when you worked with someone three years ago and now they're coming on board. But like your rates have changed. Maybe when you collect funds has changed, your design team maybe has, has shifted a little bit. How, how much do you customize your process for a client? Because they're repeating versus how much are you? Like, I can't wait to show you how we've evolved.
[00:34:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I think the, the pricing and contract side is one element of it. And I think that's something that, you know, we had to just say, you know, we've grown, the in times have changed, costs have changed. Like here's where we are, this is how we're charging. And I think most people when we just brought, broke it down transparently. We're like, okay, I, I understand, like I still want the full, I still want the full treatment. I don't, you know, want any kind of, you know, on the side type of a job. Like I understand like you've built this professional business and, and this is like how your team structure has worked. I think we're especially as I was training my team early on, I think the stickiness was really in how much they interacted directly with me. I think that that was the part that was a harder challenge to overcome. I think our team is honestly like so phenomenal and so diligent and I think from early meetings clients today can see the care that goes into everything that there is like that trust has been transferred over in like such a, a great way. But I think early on it was, it was a little bit harder of a challenge and I felt myself having to, you know, go to every site, visit, be there at every like, you know, I, I was running myself a little thin in order to be present because like my presence is what those clients were, were used to. Right. So I think that's something that having the, and I find that in early meetings allowing like me setting the stage for the concept, for example, and it can explaining the overarching and how we got there, but then allowing the team, like if I'm going to have the team communicate with them when it comes to the drawings. And if I'm going to have the team communicate and solve an issue, if there's a tile installation problem or something like that, like, they need to be, like, speaking early on in those meetings. And that's where kind of like the senior designer who's been on my team and she is, like, so comfortable now doing that because of giving those, like, early opportunities and setting the. It doesn't feel like I've abandoned them because it's like we're kind of, like, shepherding the process throughout the way. But, I mean, I say that, like, I still am super involved. Like, I think that's because I want to be.
But I think there is a little bit of, like, the proving of the team and how we're. I'm still overseeing things, even if I'm not the one communicating that we've been able to successfully do, like, in recent years, maybe more so than when I kind of first started.
Started expanding to just being beyond me.
[00:37:00] Speaker B: I think that's such a good point that if you're going to have someone else.
I know you didn't give this specific example, but presenting to clients or if you're going to have. If you want to establish that your designer project manager is the point of communication and that whenever you are needed, you're happy to step in, you have to establish that from the very, very beginning. And it is a tricky balance because, you know, from a business development standpoint, when you're doing those onboarding calls, typically people are like, oh, I get to talk to Jess. I'm working with Jess. And it just has to be very, very clear that this is kind of my role now. And I will oversee your whole project. But trust me, you do not want to be emailing me to get something done because I'm not the best person
[00:37:43] Speaker A: to handle it 100%.
[00:37:45] Speaker B: I'm curious how repeat clients affect kind of the morale in the studio. Does it feel a little more comfortable in the studio when people are working with repeat clients because they're like, oh, I kind of know how they're going to react to a situation like this? Or do you feel like sometimes it can actually be a little more stressful because it's like, we got to do it better than we did last time. Like, we want it to be even more amazing. We got to push the design further?
[00:38:16] Speaker A: Yeah. I think that more often than not, it falls into the former category where it's. It's more fun. Like, we know them. It. You know, we were able to you're not proving yourself on every meeting anymore. I think there's like, the pressure of, am I good enough? Am I meeting their expectation that is, you know, you're over that hump, which, that part is really nice.
But you also don't want to seem like, oh, I have this in the bag. I'm not giving it the same care and attention that I would the first meeting.
We're always trying to keep that professionalism. I think that's something that has. Maybe that's a whole another podcast conversation. But I think that keeping things. Even though we're in the same town, we might have social relationships, any of those things, keeping it professional and just knowing, okay, we show up to every meeting, you know, as prepared as we did on the very first one. I think that's important to continue, but it can be more fun. You know them, you know what they're going to like. You kind of know the idiosyncrasies of, you know, how they interact with one another and where, you know, people want to be involved and where you can really, you know, take the baton and say, like, I've got this, don't worry, and they're going to trust you. So I think does fall into, like, the less, less. A little less stressful and more fun. The only thing I will say is, like, if, you know, like, we've had instances where we're finishing up a project and, you know, the next project's on the table, but you have to get through, you know, some hard things at the end of the project like we talked about. I think that can certainly, like, up the stress a little bit in terms of knowing, like, okay, I don't want this to sour the start of the next project because, you know, we're, we're trying to, you know, finish this one on a good note. And I think, I don't know that there's like a perfect, you know, strategy to overcoming that outside of just making sure that like, again, you're kind of doing what you can to face the problem head on and say, like, okay, like, let's make sure we're not pushing anything under the rug. I think nobody likes that feeling, right, where it's like there's an elephant in the room of something, but you're just, you know, so I think, you know, facing, facing any tough convos is so important, especially when you have that, that next one that you need a clean slate to start.
[00:40:40] Speaker B: Okay, let's talk about the next one concept. So, like, you know that something else is coming up with Them, even if it's a small project, you know, they want to do their back house or whatever.
When you know that's on the table, do you grand, like, do you sign a contract that they'll get those same rates? Or it's like, we will draft a contract and get you a scope of work when this is done, when we're ready to move on to the next.
[00:41:07] Speaker A: You know, if I'm being totally honest, I think if it's been the same project, we. Within that, like, calendar year we have, we haven't had an instance where we've had to raise rates, but where just because the rates had been the same. I'm thinking of one project in particular, but we have had one where there was about a year gap and the rates were different.
And I think there was a little bit of pushback on one of just of saying, but we just did this project. And I think that's when our team was growing. That's when a lot of things. It was also right after Covid, everything went through the roof. That was just a crazy time in the landscape of interiors in general. But I think we had to stay in our space that I think at the end of the day, like, no, no project is obviously worth jeopardizing your business from a profitability standpoint. And I think, like, as much as sometimes, you know, it can feel.
Feel good to give someone discount or feel good to bring them in, it's like, that's only going to hurt you in the long term. And I. I realize that's probably easy for me to say and something that has been really integral with having like a COO come in. And I actually, I was. I was on a trip recently and talking to a designer who kind of. It was her and one assistant, and we talked a little bit about, like, sending some of the bills or the contracts, like almost from, you know, your finance person or your finance team so that you are not feeling like when I'm taking this design call, they're thinking about what the invoice I just sent them. Like, I think that burden, I think the weight of that coming off of my shoulders was immense when I was no longer that person. And I know that's not possible for every small business, but I do think there is a professionalism and a. I don't know, just a line that you draw. If it's like weth Home finance is sending me this bill, not. Jess is not sending me this bill like that. That's a big difference.
So I think it was nice in the Sense that I didn't necessarily have to feel the full brunt of that conversation because it was like, this is how our studio does it. This isn't me making a decision to be nice to you or not. It's like, this is how our studio does things.
[00:43:36] Speaker B: I could not agree more. When we brought in our studio director to handle the billing, like, just even the sending of the bill, she was able to be like, this is how long it took you guys. And so this is what the bill's gonna be. There was never the opportunity to be like, oh, well, I kind of feel like I spent a little too long researching that. Or like, oh, it's not their fault that it took me XYZ longer to draw that. Because creativity is a spectrum, and it's not something that can absolutely be forced out in X, Y and Z number of hours. And so to have someone else be able take that personal, emotional connection out of it is on both ends from a client perspective and from, you know, a studio perspective. But I love the tip that you just gave that I think we should, like, reiterate is if you don't have someone sending your.
Your invoices out, just having an alias set up in your email, it can still be the same Gmail account. And you just set up an alias. You can Google this. It's very easy for it to BE accounting at IDcode Studio or whatever it is. Then it looks like it's coming from somewhere else. You don't have to have signature block in it. You could just have it from accounting. It doesn't have to be someone's personal name.
That does formalize it, and it does take out that emotional connection. So if you still are sending your invoices, there's nothing wrong with that. But I think that you will feel so much better hitting send on those invoices if you just have that, like, little mask on.
[00:45:11] Speaker A: It's so true. It's so true. Otherwise, you feel like it's coloring all of your other meetings, tasks, interactions that should be creative or should be, you know, execution focused. Not. Yeah. Having the weight of this, like, yeah. Bill looming over your head.
[00:45:31] Speaker B: Something else. Jess, you talked about at the top of the show that I'd like to revisit is how in the past you were, you know, happy to be sending text messages. You would take calls kind of after hours. Can we talk more about how you evolved out of that? Especially if you had worked with a client in the past, and that was what happened, and now all of a sudden, you're like, well, lose my number because you don't get to text me. Like, how do you help facilitate that shift?
[00:46:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I think, I mean, there's, again, broadly speaking, 90% of people, I think will respond to cues if you don't reply right away. And if you take their text message and the next morning say, I received your text, I'm putting this in an email so everyone is privy. Most people will, Will pick up on that. And I think that I, I get a.
I've never gotten a weird feeling from any past client, I think, because when something really needs to be handled, like, I make sure I handle it, if that makes sense. Like, I think if it was something where it was, like, where is Jess? I never hear from her anymore. Like, that's a totally different thing. But if it's, oh, I'm hearing from her from 9 to 5 in professional hours in a, in a timely way, but in a professional way.
You know, I think most people I, you know, had said, like, I have a team now.
I need to make sure, you know, things aren't getting lost in text message. I think that's very understandable. I think we all know, I mean, we still have some subs that will text things and things. And you're like, oh, I know I'm sending this into an abyss and it's scary. I'm going to try to put it in email so everyone can see it. So I think most clients made that transition.
It was, it was more me driven, right, of being okay to sleep on that text message, knowing that I didn't have an answer in their inbox. But I had to be okay with saying, like, I gotta break this cycle.
I gotta break this, you know, being so available where, you know, and I still, I will tell you, like, it's not something that just like, turns off. Like, I can still get a text message and no, I won't respond to it, but it can be in the back of my mind and I hate it, you know, during dinner. Like, of course, like, that we're all human, but think that the cycle only worsens if you give it, if you give it into it. And you, and you kind of just say, well, just this one time, I'm put a band aid on it. Well, then the precedent has kind of been set. So I think for me, it's like, if I also think nine times out of ten, your response to something is so much more measured than the moment you get it right. And like, the moment you see something, you're going to have this, this gut reaction that Has a emotion in there. And I think if you sleep on it and you put it in an email immediately, you know, it's gonna, it's gonna probably be a more measured response to begin with. But you've also trained them that like, this is how I communicate. And I think we are living, I mean, outside of, you know, if a pipe bursts or I always think of like, for whatever reason, like stone delivery is always, you know, there's a few things that are truly, you know, very urgent, time sensitive. But like outside of that, like we're, you know, everything can be addressed quickly, but it's not an actual emergency. Like I can get to this tomorrow. And we try to, you know, stay ahead on timelines so that we are in that spot where, you know, we are staying ahead. So people should be able to wait.
[00:49:06] Speaker B: I appreciate that so much and I think something that I had to put into practice because it does as like the business owner, that email, that text that you know they're unhappy with something or have a question that feels a little urgent to them, it weighs on you and you're like, yes, you have to sit with it. So I had to start practicing.
I go ahead and write the email and I schedule it out for the next day. So like in addition to giving them time to process it, you know, when they sent that email versus getting a response the next morning, that gives them time to process as well. They can, you know, maybe they realize it's not as urgent or maybe they found it because you'd already documented it or, you know, whatever that is. But if you are really like letting it consume you, just go ahead and write the email. Either save it in draft so you can revisit in the morning or you can just go ahead and preschedule it.
[00:50:02] Speaker A: Totally, totally. I think that's a great way too.
[00:50:05] Speaker B: What do you think are boundaries or expectations you've learned you must clearly define in order to sustain long term relationships in such a small community. I know you said we have to keep it super professional, but it is tricky when someone does have your personal phone number because you personally know them. How do you make sure that they feel really heard and taken care of?
But also like, please don't ever text me a question about your house.
[00:50:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, again, I think like I try not to reply to any like text message with a design answer. Right? Like you're not going to get an answer out of me over, over text message. Maybe I'll say like, heard, I got this, I'll address it. But I try to, to really like, which is not what I used to do, you know, I, I might be like, oh no, that color looks fine to me or you know, whatever. I don't really do that anymore. And I think that people have, have kind of learned that I won't really reply over text to something that is, you know, a professional answer just because it is like, that's such a kind of like casual setting. But I do feel like it's, I don't know, one of those little tips that I feel like even my dad has always like said to me is like, just do what you say you're gonna do. Right. And I think that is something that I really try to do for our projects. Like if I tell them I'm going to, you know, get this out to them or I tell them I'll make it to the site this week, I'll make it to the site this week, right? And like really kind of establishing that trust so that they don't feel like, like they're waiting on something that's just like they don't know if it's ever going to happen. I think that's the, that's some of the anxiety that can kind of like build up in people is like, well, I haven't heard. Does she care? Does she know? Is this happening? So like kind of setting a reasonable expectation and then making sure you meet it or if you can't give it, give a reason and own up to like something happened out of my control and I will make it right. I think those are the things that kind of, of, I don't know, I give them that respect and I feel like I'm, I get the respect back because I try to deliver on the expectations that like that we've set for them. So they, they feel like it's a two way street, you know. And I, I think if they, if they feel uncared for, like that's when you know, some of the like aggressive texts can, can kind of happen. But if they feel like no, they're, they're, you know, I'm on their mind, they care, they know it's important, they're just going to address it. You know, when they said they were, then I feel like we get the respect back, if that makes sense.
[00:53:00] Speaker B: Totally. Okay, this is kind of a bonus question, but I just think it in like, you know, I just have this romantic, picturesque vision of your town and like, and like what it's like. But what about people who like know that you are the designer in town and they know you personally, and then they just start asking you design questions. How do you feel them to the studio? And like, we'd love to talk to you about this project. How do you kind of like, handle the friends and family inquiries?
[00:53:31] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, no, there's that. I, I will say that the expert has been really nice from that standpoint of having that has been. I, I, I love the expert. I love the clients we have on our expert. I will say, like, if it, it is hard to fit it in with everything else we have going on, but we continue to prioritize it because it's so nice to have that outlet to say, we, we, you know, we don't do one off consultations.
I don't have time. We, you know, we're booking six months out to start new work, but we do have the expert, so if you have something burning, I can help you through that platform. And here's how you schedule. And as you know, it's takes us out of it completely, which is, is so nice.
And then I think, you know, people will come into the shop, they will be like, is Jess upstairs? And this is like in the summer. And, you know, there's a part of me that doesn't want to be, like, too good for that. Like, if I have time to come down and say hello and talk. And like, I, I, again, I don't see myself, like, going anywhere.
So I like being part of the community in that way. But I think it's nice, like, like our team, I've probably crossed that threshold where our team is big enough now that people kind of understand that it's, you know, not something that I'm just gonna kind of like, pop over and advise on something. And I think, you know, there's a part of that that's like, sad in a way that I don't do those, like, little popovers that maybe when I first started, but it made way for bigger, bigger things in the project and more detail that we, like, love to do. And there are, you know, I do feel like it is a small town, but there are other, you know, great designers here too. And we always try to also say that, you know, there's a great, great designer for, for everyone.
[00:55:15] Speaker B: So, okay, let's talk red flags, warning signs. Now, I'm sure every client you've ever worked with is perfect and had no flags, but hypothetically speaking, if you were to have a project and they absolutely loved you, but internally, you were like, I don't see us working together again.
What are those signs? And also, how do you handle it when they come back.
[00:55:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I. Okay. So in some, some of the red flag cases, I think somebody going from, you know, being very wrapped up in their own work to having a lot of time on their hands and this project is their way that they are passing their everyday and the way that they are, I don't know, kind of getting out any of that kind of energy that can be really hard. Right where we do so well with people that trust us and want us to run with things.
But I think people that, you know, the, the project is there, they're going to spend eight hours a day on it. Like, that's probably not a great fit for us just because of the, the amount of back and forth, the amount of spin, the amount of control.
That's just, it's kind of like a little bit of like a personal shopper, which, you know, that type of a relationship isn't really what our team brings value to. Like us just kind of like coming along to every single thing and having you kind of be a part of every single part of the design process, like, that is not going to be efficient. And it's also like all those inputs all the time are not going to actually get you to the best end result.
So I think that's, that's a flag for us for sure.
And then I think the, you know, the budget thing is also, you know, something that is real. Like, I think people like seeing an end result project and what that costs, but wanting the same thing for a quarter of the price, like is never going to work. So I think like that's something too that we've gotten more comfortable standing in our space about too. And just, just again, early on you can like, people have these beautiful pins and you can get excited, but if their budget is just never going to meet it, it's going to be an uphill battle the whole time.
And then, you know, that will also carry over into your fees, into, you know, questioning every invoice, all of the things. Like, I think it's hard to do your best work when that is kind of the undercurrent.
[00:58:14] Speaker B: Okay, I have just a couple final questions, although I really feel like I could talk to you all day, but. Okay, are there any operational you have made that directly support client retention even if it's not, you know, making sure there's a gift at the end? Are there any little subtleties that you wrap a project up with to be like, I think that there are legs on this in the future and even if there's not I want them to refer us. What are those things?
[00:58:41] Speaker A: Yeah, we. I mean, I do think that our reveal process is usually a very joyful one and something that we do, you know, we do bring a gift. I think that's just a little kind of icing on the cake. But the care and attention, you know, that we put into to like, make that kind of little wow moment at the end really special for them, I think is something that really, like, sticks. And when I think about the projects that candidly maybe didn't have the. The same rainbows and butterflies at the end, although they've all, like, ended great, but maybe you don't. You don't have that same feeling like, oh, my gosh, that person is in my corner a thousand percent.
Only times that. That is when we didn't get the benefit of those types of moments where we were. It was like a remote project over Covid that kind of happened in so many phases and. And little bits were missing from every. So I think that reveal process for us, even if it does have to be phased like, that is important because they notice the care and attention that we put into the little things to make sure it's all special and making them feel special. So I think that's something we do. Anytime I'm sharing something, I feel like that's the other thing. I feel so cognizant that, like, the house that we're sharing wouldn't be possible without those people. And, like, yes, it's my work and, you know, we're excited about what we did, but I think giving them some of the credit for it and whenever something's published, really making them feel special too. Like, this was a big deal and we were able to do this because of you and your trust and making them feel like a part of that. Not like it's just one of my many, you know, projects or something. It's like, it's. It's special every time that. That somebody kind of allows us to, you know, do what we love for them. So I think, like, that's just a. Maybe just a part of, like, how I feel about it, but hopefully they are getting that too. And that it's not like a. A.
I don't know, just a plastered advertisement that. But it's like, oh, this is really, like, somebody trusted us to do this.
[01:01:10] Speaker B: I love that. That's a great. A great tip to, like, let them. Obviously, some clients are very, very private, and that's not necessarily what they would want, but for those who were, like, so invested in it, and like, are so proud of their home. To also get the mention in press can be really exciting. That's a really good tip. I hadn't thought of.
Okay, okay. For designers listening who feel stuck, like, constantly chasing new inquiries, what is a mindset shift that they can make around longevity with clients?
[01:01:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think the relationships that you have now are, you know, you've already put something into it that has more legs than, you know, a blind inquiry. Right. So that could be a client, it could be an architect, it could be a builder, it could be the cabinet person down the street. Like, if you are doing. I think people recognize great work. I think people recognize good people, people want to work with good people. And these are just projects that take so long. Like, I think you want not someone in your corner that you feel like you're gonna enjoy as well.
And I think that goes a long way for people. I always, I always say, like, even if, you know, something went wrong, if they, like, it's gonna be really hard for people to talk poorly about someone that they really felt like was giving their best and really, like, saw it through.
So I think, like, doubling down on those, like, relationships and connections and yes, on the client side. But I think it. I don't know if that's too much of a tangent, but like, I do think it extends to builders, I do think it extends to architects. It extends to all of, all of the subs in your area as well. Because, like, that, you never know when that, like, good word of mouth can push somebody over the edge. Or maybe they were like, considering a few people, but then, you know, the cabinet person that they went in to look at was like, oh my gosh, yes, they're amazing. Like, they do such great work. Like, you never know how that could, you know, add up and kind of snowball into the yes that you want to get.
[01:03:38] Speaker B: I am so grateful for your wisdom today, Jesse. You've shared so much. But to wrap up, I know you have have amazing, exciting things in the works. Can you talk to us about upcoming projects, collaborations, or any exciting things on the horizon that you are able to share with us?
[01:03:56] Speaker A: Yes, yes, we. I'm excited to finally share some new work this year. My gosh, I feel like last year was such a grind of mechanicals and long term projects and like, so few installs compared to what we normally do. It was just a weird cycle.
So we'll finally, you know, some we've been holding onto and they'll finally get their day this year. So I'm excited about that. We also, you know, have our collection with unique kitchens and baths, which is very exciting. And we're extending into some freestanding pieces.
So that'll be really, you know, something I look forward to sharing at High Point this year as well.
[01:04:33] Speaker B: Exciting. Can we see that? Spring High Point or fall?
[01:04:36] Speaker A: Spring.
[01:04:37] Speaker B: Okay, well, I will make sure to pop by to come see it because I will be there.
Yes, I'll be there.
Amazing. I can't wait to come see it in their new showroom.
Jess, thank you so much for this time. You shared so much. So candidly, I know that there are a lot of takeaways from a studio at any point in their career today, so thank you, thank you, thank you. It was such a joy.
[01:04:59] Speaker A: Thank you for having me. Love chatting with you.
[01:05:03] Speaker C: For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more, don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] the Interior Collective thank you so so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations.
A big huge thank you to our production team at IDCO Studio and Quinn made. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible.
Until next time. I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business business of beautiful living.
[01:06:04] Speaker B: A very special thanks to our presenting sponsor, Leloy, the makers of beautifully crafted rugs, pillows and wall art, and to our episode sponsor and seasoned partner, Materia, the design platform, helping interior designers source materials, manage specifications and streamline project workflows.
