[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Hi and welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey and today I am joined by Alex Azad, founder of Plaster and Patina, a renovation focused design studio known for its thoughtful work in historic homes and layered interiors. Alex has built a business rooted in trust, not just in aesthetic vision, but but in process execution and financial stewardship. From the very first inquiry to the final walkthrough, her studio has developed a reputation for guiding clients confidently through complex renovations and new builds, while protecting both the integrity of the home and the integrity of their investment.
In this episode we are unpacking what it really means to build client trust. We talk about screening for alignment before signing, creating true design buy in, leading with clarity during construction and and positioning yourself as a financial steward once a project budget is set. If you have ever felt the tension between creativity and control or struggled to maintain client confidence throughout a renovation or new build, this conversation is for you. This season is presented by loy, makers of rugs, pillows and wall art collections that are grounded in ethical production, innovative craft and meticulous design. Learn more about Loloi by visiting their website loloirugs.com that's L O L O I rugs.com and follow loloy rugs on Instagram TikTok.
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[email protected] and get 50% off your first month as an Interior collective listener. That's G-T M A T E R I O dot com.
Hi Alex and welcome to the show. It is finally happening. I'm so grateful to get a bit of your time this afternoon.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: I am so grateful. I'm so excited and like I said, I'm borderline nervous because this is such a. This is such a cool opportunity to get to chat and share.
[00:02:03] Speaker B: Well, you don't sound nervous, so that's fantastic. And pretty quickly you'll be like, oh sh.
That's, that's peak efficiency is a little bit of nerves, to be honest.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: There you go. There you go. Butterflies keep us going.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: Well, actually, interesting segue because we are going to be talking today about client trust and I feel as though in our market today people are just a little bit more cautious with their spend. They're a little bit more cautious with just like immediate signups. I feel like we have already lived through the craze of COVID of everybody just being like, yes, yes, yes. And things are a little more uncertain now. So I Feel like really earning your clients trust is more important and prioritized now than ever before. So to dig. Alex, for anyone who is not already familiar with plaster and patina, can you share what your studio looks like today, how many people are on your team and what's the company structure and kind of where you sit within that structure?
[00:03:08] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. So as of today there are eight of us ladies on team.
One being a bookkeeper, she's pivotal for obvious reasons.
One being an admin, she's also pivotal. She's like my right hand, you know, she handles quite a few things. Not just what you would think of as administrative, but then we've got a senior lead designer, we have got a junior designer, then we've got a technical designer, so our drafter and then we have what we're calling our interior designer. So she kind of sometimes we'll take lead on projects and sometimes take junior, just kind of depending on the project.
And then there's me. So I sit as.
I sit as the CEO, the strategist and the principal. So I have a very strong hand in the design of every project. But I would say my love is with the construction side and the spatial flow, specifically with older and historic homes.
[00:04:19] Speaker B: Okay, I already have questions because that's so fascinating. Okay, first thing that caught my attention was the admin.
Talk to us about what you feel are like the more common admin responsibilities. But then also you mentioned that she's really doing stuff beyond that. So what does that include? Is it like project management? Is it client communication?
[00:04:39] Speaker A: Well, I think I also forgot my project manager.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: Oops, great. So there is a project manager, I think I.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: So I'm sorry, I think of her as more of like my sister because we've worked together for like 17 years. So admin, going back to the admin, she was, I want to say like my third hire.
And it was really based on intuition.
So I would say creatives kind of have this too or maybe just me. I'm OCD and add. So I also need that kind of like role sitting next to me that's going to let me be me and kind of stream of consciousness. And I need this, this, this, this and this all at the same time.
And she's really great at picking that up for me and organizing it and handling it. And she's implemented systems like Asana and things like that where I can brain dump and she'll be able to pick it up and help me with it. And that calms me. It calms me quite a bit.
And you know, it's fun to bounce ideas off of someone like that that can handle the bouncing around because not everybody can.
So, you know, and then when it comes to like booking meetings, organizing meetings, we have a very, very detailed phased system that we implement.
So every week we'll have a very in depth meeting with every single client that we have and she will run those. So any open ended items, she'll be rechecking up on all of that, making sure all the loops are getting closed, that kind of stuff.
[00:06:18] Speaker B: Alrighty, more questions. Okay, you have a weekly meeting about every single project with the client or about each client?
[00:06:27] Speaker A: About each client. Yep, Got it. So on one of these we run down the list of like, here are all the clients. Let's jump in. Where are we on this? Where are we on this? This was open ended last week. Did we close that loop? That kind of a thing. We also talk through hours. We give our clients an assumption of hours, kind of like a high, low when we start. So we're going to discuss during that meeting, where are we with those hours? Are we on track? Are we feeling good? So we're never off base?
[00:06:52] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:06:53] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:06:53] Speaker B: Crystal clear. Thank you. And then you have a technical designer as well as your senior lead designer. Um, so just to clarify, your senior lead designers are not necessarily having to do the technical drawings. Are they capable of doing it or you purposely hired two different roles to really serve two different purposes?
[00:07:16] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question.
So I would say I hire for personality. Like that's, it's huge for me keeping the company culture. And so in this case, the lead and senior we have is, she's so strong, she can do it all. But I think that our technical designer is a lot faster when it comes to CAD work. And we also want her to own the space of the CD set.
So we want one person taking ownership of that.
I have found that if the lead or the senior is taking full control of that a, it's inefficient of their time. It's not like putting their best work to use, if that makes sense. Like their, their time is better spent elsewhere. You know, redlining is a whole lot easier than actually doing the CAD from the start. And then the person in charge of the CD set can help also pm the project. They're very aware of every detail. So there's two brains that are very much involved in that project and can jump in and help when and where needed. And then everybody's time is being used really efficiently.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: Brilliant. Okay, so you work pretty Extensively. In renovations and historic properties.
How has that specialty shaped the way you structure your business and manage client expectations? You already touched on having a very specific phased out process, which, you know, I'm going to ask you for every detail. But when we're talking specifically renovations, historic homes, how has specializing in that really set up the ability to manage expectations?
[00:08:55] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
So I've been dealing with client management overall for like, maybe two decades, and one thing that I've learned is a niche helps solidify you as being the expert in that field. Right. I personally happen to have a strong passion for. For a very specific look and a very specific.
Well, old homes inspire me, I'll put it that way. Right. So when you're doing it, we do a lot of new builds as well. But to infuse that level of character, it's.
It's expensive, it's time consuming, it's a lot of educating to help the client understand why that level of craftsmanship is needed and to get the outcome, which we're happy to do. But when we step foot in an older home, a historic home, there's magic there. The house speaks to us. I mean, it tells us what it wants already.
So we get to cater to not only the client, but we kind of consider the house to be a client too. And I know that sounds weird, but that's why we name all of our clients women's names, because they kind of take on their own personality and then we've got a direction. I think when it gets a little hairy is when there are so many options, you know, with a new build that it's like, oh, we could go in any direction. And then people start getting pulled on Pinterest and we have to like, rope them back in.
And we're happy to do that. But I think that when we do step foot in an old home, let's say it's a Craftsman or something, like, we, we know what's appropriate for that house, we know what that house wants, we know where the kitchen should be or should be moved to. And we know the same set of problems that is going to come with every single house. And we're well versed in that. And so when clients come to us, they're usually coming to us because they have that set of issues. And they've been following us on Instagram or a friend told them, hey, I used them for this renovation. I never would have had a kitchen come out looking like that if not for them stepping in.
And so, you know, oftentimes we're getting A home before the architect comes on board, and we're helping kind of shape where we're moving things before they even get on board.
Other times we're coming in and having to help an architect that might not specialize in this.
Shift the plan a little bit to better respect the home and what it wants. And I, I know it's kind of weird. It's almost like I consider myself like an old home whisperer. Like, I just, I hear what the house wants, it talks to me, and, and I see that for it, and then we get to execute it. And each one is like a dream, you know?
[00:11:47] Speaker B: Okay, how does one. You currently price your services as an old home whisperer?
Are you, are you flat fee, cost plus, hybrid? And again, we'll get into all of your different phases, but if you could give us an overview of just like how you guys handle pricing that is always so valuable to the.
[00:12:10] Speaker A: Yeah, we try to keep it really, really simple.
I know this, this episode is all about developing trust. And so one of the ways that we do that is by being really, really consistent in our process, in our pricing. We make it simple.
Our pricing is hourly across the board, we are hourly.
And we give an assumption of those hours when we first meet the client.
That assumption is also on our investment guide. It is something that our admin is telling them when they first call in on their first call to have a consult with me. It is something that then I reiterate during our consult. It is then something that is reiterated in our scope of work that we're sending them. And then throughout the phase is we're reminding them weekly. Here we are on our hours out of this, out of this many assumed hours.
There is a lot of hand holding through that. And I think that we try to make it really crystal clear from the start.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: Okay, you mentioned that like your admin, when they're first talking to a potential client or a client is giving them that kind of estimate, that range, as well as you, when you're doing that first consultation, how do you, how do you even understand the scope of the project to be giving that range upon those first conversations with people?
[00:13:36] Speaker A: So the range itself, we give sort of according to square foot, and then we let them know that that's going to fluctuate. It's not the same doing a kitchen than it is doing a living room, you know, so we give them that very broad range.
And then when we meet together and I get a really, really good idea of what they're wanting from us, then I'm Creating that scope of work that is once again a range, but it's more targeted.
[00:14:05] Speaker B: Got it. Okay. Super clear. And then for that hourly, is it like a single rate for plaster and patina? Everybody's built at the same rate or do you have it like tiered?
[00:14:17] Speaker A: Nope. We are across the board. We want less questions or better for us. Like, we just, we want to keep it real simple. These are our assumed hours, this is our rate.
We keep it just, you know, as simple as possible.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And then on reporting those hours you said on those Wednesday meetings you guys are going over, okay, how long is this taking? How long do we anticipate, you know, next week or the next couple weeks to take?
How detailed are you in delivering those said hours as you're giving the check ins? Or is it just like, hey, we're 70% of the way through our hours
[00:14:50] Speaker A: at this point, so our PM is very detailed in those weekly check ins. Every Wednesday, the client is getting a report on what we did that week, how many hours we spent that week, how many hours we are out of that month, billing cycle, and then where we are total.
So there are like, it's super clear. And then we kind of just use the same template and do it every single week over and over again.
It really helps the clients track, you know, where they are spend wise. And it's that reiteration again of like, don't worry, we're here out of this and we're good, you know, totally.
[00:15:30] Speaker B: Okay. And then last super technical question and I promise I'll move on the those Wednesday meetings, the time it takes to get those hours put together and like run those reports. Is that billable time or is that considered admin time that you guys are eating?
[00:15:44] Speaker A: No, I consider that admin time, but it's pretty quick.
So the way we have it dialed is when we're writing in our hours, we're kind of writing what we're doing. So then our PM's just copy pasting.
[00:15:57] Speaker B: If you've been listening to the Interior
[00:15:59] Speaker C: Collective for a while, you probably have
[00:16:01] Speaker B: heard all kinds of software recommendations and maybe even tried a few. But if your system still feels kind of all over the place, I totally get it. That's exactly why I wanted to share Materia. That's M A T E R I O. It's an all in one platform built just for interior designers from concept to install and everything in between. You can try it for free at getmaterio.com and Interior Collective listeners get 50% off their first month. So Alex when you think about your best past projects, what do you feel those clients really have in common?
And is trust something you are screening for before you ever even get a contract signed?
[00:16:45] Speaker A: Yes, I think. Well, I think because I've been doing this for so long, I've kind of. I have a red flag radar.
I think also because we're so pointed in our process and because I do have a pretty strong personality, I know right away after that first zoom meeting, like, oh, this is a fit. Or like, this is not. This is not a fit.
And I can kind of. I can tell it's more like an intuitive thing, but I think there are obvious strategic things that make me feel like it's intuitive.
You know, when somebody's looking to you as the expert, obviously you're looking for that. Right. If they're making it seem like they already know how to do this, they're just looking for reassurance. That's a red flag.
You want them like, you know, there. There are certain strategic questions we ask. I'm trying to think of what those are right now. Like, have you done this before? Have you worked with a designer before?
We ask all of that. You know, if you have, what was your experience? Why aren't you working with that designer again?
What are your fears going into this process? That's a big one that we ask.
If all of their questions to us are about money, that's a red flag, too. We want them to be excited about the process, not just scared about what they're going to be spending.
So, you know, this process is a luxury.
And so I think a red flag is when we get questions about, like, how are you going to save me money? Like, that's not what we do and that's not what we promise. And yes, hiring an interior designer makes the process more efficient and it will keep you from making mistakes, which ultimately is good. Right. But we're not here to say, you know, I'm going to save you 10% because that's just. That's not our firm.
[00:18:40] Speaker B: What do you think that you're putting out on those initial conversations and calls with people that you're on this call, you're like, I think they're great. This is going to be a great fit. How do you help them feel like
[00:18:54] Speaker C: it's a great fit?
[00:18:59] Speaker A: So I think with a crystal clear process.
So I think that's the first thing that people get nervous about.
What I hear most of is that I'm afraid the designer, you.
That you're not going to listen and just Run away with the budget or, you know, give me something that you want. That's not what I wanted.
And we like to say, and this is true for our ethos overall, we are client centric. This is not my home. This is your home. I'm comfortable when you are comfortable. Whatever I need to do to better explain the question or the process to you, I will do.
I went through this process before I went into this industry, and I knew what made me feel uncomfortable about it, and so I didn't want to do that. And basically I've. I've created our process around making clients feel like I wanted to feel through the process, if that makes any sense.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it definitely does. Um, and it's also a perfect segue to my next question. I want to start talking process. Your intake process is very lifestyle driven.
And I'm wondering, you know, so many times I'll look at our clients, like, intake forms or their questionnaire that they've developed, and it's very like, do you like brass or polished nickel? Like, it's very specific, like, preferences.
Why is it so important for you to understand how someone actually lives before you begin designing? What does a very lifestyle driven intake process really mean?
[00:20:45] Speaker A: That's a great question.
I think with how custom we get with our home design, we can't just ask, do you like brass or nickel? And also, I don't even think that they necessarily know the answer to that. And if they do, it's. It's not what's actually important.
A huge part of our process is not only, like, let's say doing an addition or doing. Doing a renovation to a certain area, but we want to make sure that our clients are using every single room of their home.
Like, every room for a specific thing. Not like, well, this is the informal living room and this is the formal living room. And we don't know. We kind of just like, oscillate between the two. No, we should have an assigned reason that you're going to that room, an assigned reason that you're going to this room, and you should be using your entire house. And so without getting to know their lifestyle, of how do you want to live in the house? We can't do that.
Not, you know, not. Not everyone wants a bar in their house, but some people absolutely need a bar in their house. And not everyone, you know, so we need to know those things about them. Are they casual people? Are they formal people?
Words aren't always enough to get to understand that. We need to understand their, like, where they're coming from what they like to do on weekends, where they like to travel, how, how often they like to entertain.
Because that's what we're catering to. If you, if they don't ever entertain, then why do they need a big, huge, formal dining room? Even though I love a formal dining room, but why do they need it if they don't? You know what I mean? Maybe it can be a dual purpose. Maybe whatever it is, we can't design the way that our process is without getting to know that. And our questionnaire, the first questionnaire we send out is purely lifestyle based.
It's also like, how do you like to make decisions? Are you that person that needs to see absolutely everything out there first? Because then we know we need to really work on building that trust beforehand. Right.
[00:22:47] Speaker B: That's so interesting that you include that question in a questionnaire, because I also feel like some clients will lie to you and be like, I'm the best at making decisions.
I'm so fast.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: Yeah, we'll laugh about that. Like, just like we are right now. Like, oh, really? Okay, we'll see. You know, and. And I think that's also a way that we do gain trust is like poking fun and making the process fun. This, this should be a fun process. It should be fun. And I think that's something that when things get too serious, like knowing when to add that, like, little bit of comedic, like, you know, it's important, important.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: They want to laugh.
[00:23:24] Speaker A: I want them to laugh when they're with me. I want them to enjoy. It's not so serious. Yeah, definitely.
[00:23:30] Speaker B: Do you. I can just imagine being your client, having you ask those questions about how I live in my home, but then also, like, how I want us to communicate in this. Or like, ask, you know, do you want to see more than one option or do you want us to always be presenting our best and final.
I can imagine that that would build an incredible amount of trust. Like, you're asking these things, you're obviously listen and caring straight from the getaway, but it also allows you and your team to do a much better job.
In the specific example you gave of, you know, how do you like to make decisions? Do you like to see lots of options before you know which way your gut's going? Does that change your process? Like, if they say, yes, we like to see a million things, but your process has always been locked in that, hey, we present two. Do you alter it per client or because you're hourly throughout the whole thing, you're like, I will show you 18,000 couches.
[00:24:24] Speaker A: That's the thing I will alter in that I will have that conversation with them. I will say to them, I will show you the world, but your hours will tick, tick, tick, tick up.
So you tell me, because I will do what I need to do to make you feel comfortable and confident.
Normally, after the first meeting where I show them that I've heard them, it stops. Sometimes it doesn't, and we'll just keep showing options.
Sometimes people hire us because they like that process and they just want to see that, and that's fine too. You know, we are in a client centric driven industry, and I understand that fully.
You know, another important question we ask our questionnaire is, does it make you upset if something's over budget? I want to know if it'll like, offend them. Because there are those clients that it will offend them. And then that conversation has to happen so that I can say to you, there's a whole world out there and I can explain to you why these things are more expensive than you want to spend. And you tell me, do you just want to not know that they exist or do you, you know, do you want to know that they exist? And I'll warn you, and they usually want to know that it exists because, you know, we're the expert.
Every client has a different value system, a different value they're placing on what a rug should be. Right, that word. Like should. The rug should cost this much. The lamp should cost this much. But once we get to know that client, we can understand like, oh, texture is really important to this client. So we're going to need to spend on the rug. We're going to need, you know, it's the largest piece of art in the room. And then we break that down for them.
And when we do pricing for furniture, specifically, we have a program that we've developed of like, high, low.
And the high is very high. It's like heirloom, like, you know, heirloom, Heirloom. And so when we're putting their stuff into our program, we have already asked them what, what their expectations of these pieces are, right?
So the low of our program is like retail, like our house pricing kind of a thing. And then the high is high.
And when we show them, hey, this is your living room, we've already agreed on this layout. So here's what, here's our range.
Here's where you said you want to be in that range. But just know there's this whole world over here that you're not going to see.
And please don't think that you're spending heirloom when you're spending our house. And let's get our expectations right for quality of the piece, how long the life cycle of the piece is going to be. If it's a veneer, we talk about all of that. Don't call me when you got your, you know, coffee table from Pottery Barn. And it's not that we're going to buy from our, but that it, that, you know, you put your, your drink down on it and there's a ring and then the, the what you thought was burl wood is actually like a paper thin veneer. You know, we, but we explain all that and sometimes they're like, that's fine. You know, this room, we have kids and it's going to change again in a year. And that's fine with me.
[00:27:39] Speaker B: Okay.
My brain is catching up. This is so fascinating. So you are a, you mentioned that you asked them what their expectation for a price point is for. I'm assuming like key pieces. You're not necessarily asking for like every side table situation.
So are you providing them this spectrum on a room basis or literally for key items throughout? Because that feels like a lot, like a lot of information.
[00:28:15] Speaker A: Yeah, well, that's, that's my thing is, is when they feel informed and educated, they feel empowered. They're going to trust you more because they're going to trust themselves more.
So yeah, we do it per room. It doesn't take long, though. It's just a template. So we're just boom, boom, boom, boom. Like we've already established the layout.
It's two occasional chairs. It's a sofa, it's.
So we go down the list and kind of input all of that. And I already know where they live in terms of what they want to be spending. Now I'm educating them. It's really just an education in like. Well, here you are on the spectrum. So your expectations of the quality of this piece should lie here. But if you're showing me, you know, an 18th century primitive piece, guess what? It's not coming from our house.
And so let's, let's get an education there. Either we're splurging here and then we can like pull back someplace else, or we're not. But you're not going to get that piece. It's not the same thing. We're not going apples for apples if you want that. Look, here's an education on how to get there. And it's up to you. You tell Me, I can show you both.
[00:29:19] Speaker B: Okay, so going back to that questionnaire question of like, are you offended by seeing things out of your expected or agreed price point? So if someone answers yes, I'm telling you budget, I expect you to work within that budget. That then also eliminates you spending any time sourcing that higher end side of things. Like, your team just won't even touch it. Or will you still sneak in two or three that you're like, I really do want them to see these.
[00:29:47] Speaker A: So it depends. Depends on the client. I think by that time I've developed such a good rapport with them that we can almost like laugh about it. Like, I'm gonna show you something. I'm gonna warn you, it's over what you wanna spend. I don't wanna offend you. I just think it's the right piece for you. But I'm not here to offend. We can just throw it out the window if you hate it. I just felt like you should see it. Cause it's, it's what you wanted, so. And then it's kind of in their court. But if I know it's gonna offend, that question's more psychological on my side to be like, okay, we're gonna need some like, conversation here and transparency here when we do this so that you don't get hit with the a bill of like, I told you not to do that. Even though we're in budget. I didn't, I didn't want you to. You know, I want them to feel heard and seen. That's my biggest thing.
[00:30:39] Speaker B: Okay. And then that was a perfect segue too, to the concept of okay. So you've agreed upon total budget.
Um, and let's say you've even agreed upon a total budget for a year.
[00:30:50] Speaker A: It's a range. It's kind of like a. A range. Like, don't go beyond the facts, please.
[00:30:55] Speaker B: Got it. Okay, so you have that number in, for instance, the living room. Is there a world where you're saying, listen, you gave me a number for the whole room. And I think that, yes, 12% of that needs to go to the specific item, even though you think that that is too much for that one item.
[00:31:15] Speaker A: Say that again.
[00:31:16] Speaker B: Let's just say for easy math, let's just say, okay, $100,000 for XYZ room.
And a client has said, okay, well, I never want to spend more than $10,000 on a sofa. And you're like, okay, great. But then you're like, listen, you gave me a hundred thousand dollars for this Room. I'm still within $100,000 all in. But I am asking you to spend more on this sofa.
How do you get clients to trust you?
Because you're asking them such specific questions, like, on a, like, kind of piece by piece base. How do you continue to have that trust when you're like, listen, the overall goal is this number, and we're within it, but you're gone. You're gonna have to trust me on how we designate.
[00:32:00] Speaker A: Yeah. By the time we're there, honestly, like, we already have such great trust that, like, I've never had a client harp on something like that ever. As long as we're being respectful. If they're saying, I don't want to, you know, I'm used to spending 12 on a sofa. I don't want to spend more than 15. And we're showing them something that's 40, that's offensive.
And I know it's going to offend them. Do you know what I mean? But, like, if they're the client, that's like, I want to see it all. And, like, we show them a $40,000 sofa, and we're starting to go over budget. And I see start by saying, hey, we're like, we're pushing through the budget. And they're like, that's okay. Let's see it. But we have clients like that, too, so it's not. We don't harp on the budget. The budget's important, and we discuss it and we respect it, but it's not our focus, if that makes sense.
[00:32:50] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And talking about budget, what. What phase of the conversation, what phase of your process are you really introducing budget when we're talking about specific items or even what it's going to cost to furnish X, Y and Z room and X, Y and Z house?
[00:33:06] Speaker A: Okay. So the budget conversation, I think this all goes back to Trust two and earning it from the start. The budget conversation starts at our investment guide. It's giving a range again, being reiterated, and then it's on our scope, and then it's here, and then it's here, and then it's here.
So the first questionnaires that go out, so we send general questionnaires, then we send specific room questionnaires.
And in those questionnaires, it's already giving them an education. It's saying, what are. What's your expectation of spending on an occasional chair? Here's retail. Here's like, you know, what we would call one step above that, like, luxury, and then here's heirloom. This is what's happening in our world. And this is all just like in a template so we don't have to re educate each time. Where do you sit on that? And then it gives them that minute without me, without me having to have the conversation with them and take the time to explain all of this. Oh, wow. My expectations are off. Like, I trust them though. So like, ooh, you know, shoot, I want to be here. And then they know going in where they sit on that spectrum, if that makes any sense. Totally does.
[00:34:15] Speaker B: That questionnaire. Are there visual representations of those things or is it like just retail?
[00:34:21] Speaker A: It's all just like, it's all luxury. It's like, it's like seed planting from the start and an education. Like, you know, your living room. Here's the run through of that. What do you expect to spend on a sofa? Well, here's an education on what sofas actually cost. What do you want to spend on this? Here's an education on what it costs. You know what I mean?
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I literally am so fascinated with your process. I'm so grateful for you sharing all this. I want to move on to when someone is actually like begun a project with you.
And so how do you move a client from inspiration boards to like full design buy in? What do your presentations look like? How in depth are they? Are you doing just, you know, construction hard finishes first, then furnishings come later. Are you doing it all at once?
[00:35:32] Speaker A: That's exactly how we do it normally. I mean, some projects we have and it's just, it's just furnishing projects, right? So we're coming right in. But most projects, our construction first, then we'll jump over to furnishings.
So by the time we get to furnishings, we are like locked in in terms of trust and loving one another.
So it's like kind of just like now, yay, let's have more fun.
But I think when it comes to the beginning of the process and starting that getting that trust, the very first meeting, so we, we bite size it right? So we try to not information overload and decision fatigue them. That's the key I think for me is just bite size pieces.
So first meeting is mood boards.
How do you want it to feel the texture? We have buy in on that so we know what it's going to look and feel like. And then we also go over like a layout flows, different flow options, like where we can put the kitchen, where we can put, you know, how we would be potentially moving things.
Now we work. I work in Sketchup.
That's like how my brain works. And so along with a layout comes like what I call like a view portal of how that would feel from this room to that room, how that would look from here to here. And there is no client I've ever had at that point that doesn't have full buy in because they're like, oh, whoa, I wouldn't have thought of that. And now I see what that looks like and I am so on board with that. So it's like now we know what it's going to feel like and now we know the flow of it. So once we get to the next stage of actually presenting like countertops and you know how it's all going to go together. We already have full buy in on like where everything's going and what it's going to look like. We know they're going to love it by that point. Does that make any sense?
[00:37:31] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I love that you're showing like the actual, you know, walk through so they understand how, how it's actually going to live.
How do you guys handle revisions? Because it is just hourly. It's like, great, we'll just tackle these and those get build back.
[00:37:46] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. We usually, I mean we're very communicative. Like we, we really develop this strong relationship. So I can tell like what a client, if a client, if I have their full buy in or if they're on the fence, like I feel that. And then I, I say like, take a minute with it. We send a feedback questionnaire. Take a minute, take a week, Fill in the questionnaire. Think about it. When you get it back to us, all of our, all of our questionnaires at the bottom say when you do get us this feedback, should we, you know, we're going to start proceeding right away with all the feedback and if you make edits after that point, we're going, we're going out of scope.
So kind of, you know, just know that we're moving forward full, full force.
[00:38:33] Speaker B: Once you get us.
When they've submitted the Feedback. That's their feedback and that's what you're working from.
[00:38:39] Speaker A: Yeah. And if you want to go back, it's totally fine, but it's now out of scope, so. So to get back there, you know, until we get back to that same place that we were and it's happened where we have had like new builds and we've gotten all the way and then they're like, shoot, I actually wanted a one story and we've got a two story. Like, let's go back. So we'll, you know, we'll go back and we'll, we'll redo and then once we get back to that place where we know the flow again, then we'll go back to regular scope.
[00:39:04] Speaker B: Got it. Talk to us about how you're presenting those bite size concepts. So you got the mood board. When you say bite size, do you mean that the mood boards and The SketchUp flow, that is one bite or you're doing by rooms. Okay, great. And so then once you move to like actual, like service selections, let's say
[00:39:28] Speaker A: it's like a really big home. We might split the flow into two sometimes, like, it depends, like, if it's, if it's overwhelming, like, I, I kind of just from doing it for so long, know what's going to feel overwhelming and what's not. We can touch on other things, but like, when I start seeing their eyes, kind of like, okay, I'll say let's wrap this. Let's, let's come back to it.
The second portion, we've got enough to keep moving forward with. Like the important areas
[00:40:02] Speaker B: in your historical data. Is there like a hour, number of length of meeting when you're like, once we hit two hours, like, they're pretty much done.
[00:40:10] Speaker A: I can't go beyond two hours. I can, yeah. Like my add, like, oh, I'm like overwhelmed by that point. So for me, like an hour to an hour and a half is ideal. When we hit two hours, I start. My eyes start. Like, I can't do this long over. Yeah, this long.
[00:40:28] Speaker B: So if it isn't an instance where it's like it is going to be broken up into parts, how far apart are those presentations? Is it like a week later than you guys will retouch or you're like, we're reconvening tomorrow.
[00:40:39] Speaker A: Oh, no. Usually it's like, because we'll have enough information to, to carry on.
Usually it's like a two week.
I feel like two, three weeks is when clients kind of get that itch. Like where Are they.
[00:40:51] Speaker B: What are they doing? Yeah, let's see something else.
[00:40:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Great.
How. I mean, you definitely have a signature style. Like you said, you have like a very clear viewpoint or a point of view.
When a client hesitates on a bold or unfamiliar choice. Maybe unfamiliar is a better word choice than bold.
Per your style.
How do you guide that moment without losing your authority or like, momentum in the project? If you're getting pushback on something that you feel pretty passionately is the right move, how do you keep it going? Feeling light and fun?
[00:41:35] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess because.
Because it's authentic. When I say I'm client focused, I don't get tripped up by that because I want them to be thrilled with the outcome. Um, I will work on getting them visuals that they might need. We can work with our renderer. Like, even though we work in 3D, obviously I'm not going to, like, I'm not as good as those, like, crazy photorealistic renderings. We can go that route. Whatever we need to do to make them feel comfortable. And I will, I will reiterate why I feel like something is the right choice, but I will never push something on a client that doesn't feel right to them because it's their home. It's so personal.
And so I mean it when I say that I'm not the designer that designs on ego.
It's just not who I am. I'm. I'm like a connection person. Like, I want them so happy and it's a win win when I love the design and they're happy, but like, my priority is that they're happy.
[00:42:37] Speaker B: I feel as though you have such a locked in portfolio of work that it does feel so innately plaster and patina when I see your work.
And so do you feel like, you know, after like 20 years of doing this, you're just, you're hitting the right clients and so you guys are super aligned aesthetically, or do you feel like there are still projects where maybe some things don't get photographed or, you know, where you feel like that wasn't my first, second, or third choice, but they are super thrilled with it. How did, how do you manage that?
[00:43:11] Speaker A: I'm gonna curveball you right now because I have done design for 20 years. I designed luxury weddings, but I've only been an interior designer for three years.
[00:43:21] Speaker B: For three years. Got it. You have had client experience in the luxury market for.
[00:43:27] Speaker A: So I've designed luxury weddings like that are at the same level as designing a home. So like, we would design over cliffs and have engineering and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But the home realm is, like, you know, I wouldn't say new because I've been doing it for myself, but, like, doing it as plaster and patina has been three or so curveball to that.
We grew fast, and we're growing fast. But I. I think that, like, having a clear point of view is what gets us there. Because I am focused in what I want the outcome overall to look and feel like, because it's what I'm most passionate about. And I can be the most excited with my clients when I'm passionate about the projects.
We don't get hired, really, to do, like, what I call, like, the white boxes. We just don't get hired for that. It's not really in our portfolio. And that's for a reason, because I'm not passionate about it. And I think that clients can feel that. Like, if we're meeting.
There's been plenty of meetings where I'm just like, so why us?
Like, why us?
[00:44:31] Speaker B: How did you get here?
[00:44:31] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, like, it's not. It's. You're gonna. You're gonna. You're gonna hate it. Because I don't want that. I don't wanna. I don't wanna choose between Chantilly laceration and, you know, that's not. It's not what I do.
And so I think that knowing that, I don't want to grow to a point of, like, being like, a factory of work, like, we have to be picky in what we do and who we work with.
And, you know, I think having that point of view attracts the client that wants that point of view too, usually. And then they're, like, excited. By the time most of our clients that we sign, by the time we sign them, they're like, I know it's you.
And, like, we just. There. It's like kismet with one another where we're like, I know it's you too. I love that house and I think you're cool and, like, we have fun together. Do you know what I mean? But I think it's establishing that point of view. And I came out of the gates doing that with this company because I learned that from my last company.
[00:45:37] Speaker B: I want to talk specifically about renovations. Obviously, we're talking in a historical context for the most. Most majority of your projects, if you're renovating, not doing a new custom build.
Renovations, particularly in something historic, are inherently unpredictable.
How do you prepare clients emotionally for that reality while still. Still instilling confidence in them? And, you know, getting that trust buy in when there are things that you have no control over until you open up those walls.
[00:46:08] Speaker A: Yeah. I think a lot of it is like having them feel like I'm walking with them and like comedy.
Like, we'll walk into the house, we have to make jokes about it. Like, we don't know what, what's going to be behind that wall. I don't know. You don't know. Let's prepare for the worst and let's have a big fat contingency in that. In the builder process. When we build out our like, bid sets, we're telling the builder, this is what you're going to anticipate for slabs, this is what you're going to anticipate for tiles, this is what you're anticipating for decorative lighting and this is your contingency. Don't send a bid without it. Because we all know that when you open that wall, we don't know what's going to be in there.
We may have to completely rethink things.
So we're prepping them for that and that's, it's almost like it's an excitement that we're getting their buy in on.
Like, we're with you. Like, you chose to do this, you're coming to us with this house, right? Like, there's no way of getting around this. There's no other firm you could work with that would magically wave their wand and make it so that that's not there. So let's, let's together, like be in this and be curious and do what we can to work with, build teams that have done this before that are well versed, that have the right subs, that can anticipate, that can open, you know, they, they know to right away like open certain things up and look for what they need to look for. And you know, I think, I think working with that right built team is a huge piece of the puzzle because with these old renovations, you need a team by your side that's going to say yes. And that's also curious and that's also wants to get down on this adventure with you. Because it's an adventure, it's not a new build where like everything's going to go pretty smoothly.
[00:47:51] Speaker B: Right.
Can you expand on that contingency to the builder concept? Are you, do you mean you're giving them a design contingency, like if this, then this. Or do you mean like there's set aside budget for the contingency plan?
[00:48:08] Speaker A: Set aside budget. So we say 20, 20% contingency no matter what on your bid.
I just want them prepared. It doesn't mean that we're going to spend it. But I want the client. I. What I never want is for a client to think that they get a bid back from the builder and then something happens and they're like, I never would have done this project if I knew that. That for me, that's like the kiss of death.
That's work, a scenario. So I want to prepare them so that that can't happen. And honestly, there have been, there have been times where we've designed the whole renovation out and it doesn't come to fruition.
We. So we usually for things like this, if, if they're like on the fence, usually our clients are certain that they're going to do it anyway. But if they're on the fence, we'll get to like, we'll kind of pause at phase two of our process, which is the bid set.
So we won't do any of the decorative. We won't pick.
Pick any of the finishes yet. We're just going to know what we're doing to the house and approximately what we're going to be spending on all the decorative areas. And then we'll get a bid set together and get bids.
And at that point, we've only gotten through like halfway of the process together so that the client knows, okay, all in. Here I am with the possibility of being 20% higher. Am I comfortable? Do I need to scale back?
Where are we?
And because we prepare them so, so well with like, price per square foot of, of construction and all of that in advance, it's not ever surprising.
There are clients, though, that come to us from the start. They say, I'm not sure if I want to do it. Let's. This is like exploration together.
And so in those cases, sometimes it doesn't happen. Sometimes it does. Sometimes the client ends up selling the house and getting a new one and like, let's just do this in a new home that, you know, isn't going to take as big of a renovation or whatever.
But those conversations are transparent and they're happening from day one.
[00:50:08] Speaker B: Let's talk about those transparent conversations when it comes to XYZ Wall opened up and now we definitely can't put the bathroom there that we wanted to talk to us about when problems arise, particularly on the job site.
Are you the type of firm that's like, we're going to have a solution before we tell the client the problem? So they already know that there's a fix or do you feel like you really build trust by keeping them abreast on, hey, this just came up. We'll circle back around with solutions. How are you maintaining that trust level when there's hiccups?
[00:50:43] Speaker A: So it's usually both. That actually just happened to us and it's usually a, hey, FYI, this is what's happening. But within three days, I'm gonna get you our thoughts on how we're gonna fix it. So just sit tight and then, you know, and then we'll get them thoughts.
Sometimes the thoughts come right away and I can kind of spit it out and just say, listen, it would work if we did X, Y and Z edits, but usually it's the type of thing where we're like, we're always transparent. It's, it's not my place to keep a secret from the client with their own house is how I look at it. I think of it as like a big family, you know, it's like, let's just get it all out there.
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[00:52:10] Speaker B: How do you handle contractors and trades when it comes to communication, style and also again, stewarding that trust of essentially the entire project? Like you said, you're one big family working on this. So how does this carry over when you're talking to contractors who know everything and you know, can tell you one way or the other how things go?
[00:52:36] Speaker A: Well, we've yet to meet a builder that we haven't cracked in terms of like, in terms of like gaining their trust. Also, I think what, what, what has happened a lot is designers will, they want to. There are certain designers, I guess, that they've worked with that want to make it pretty, but they're not doing the technical side of it. They're just like, but we want it to look like this. And that I think pisses the builder off, for lack of a better term. That's not us. We're in there. We're problem solving with them.
Um, and so we, we earn their trust. Even if they're like tough builders, we usually end up, like, really getting along, like into our phase too. I think as soon as they start seeing our technicals and as soon as they start seeing that we're not messing around when it comes to, like, the details and caring and not forcing them, but also asking them questions, hey, what do you think the best way is to do X, Y and Z?
It's conversational and it's respectful.
And so I think that we've yet to meet a builder that we're just like, I can't with that person.
I'm sure it'll happen eventually.
[00:53:54] Speaker B: So three years in, there's obviously a level of, of construction knowledge that you have to have to be able to be the person in there helping them problem solve. How do you feel like you started.
Started and continue to gain that general contracting understanding. Build understanding.
You know, just after three years to be able to be like an active partner in the problem solving phase.
[00:54:20] Speaker A: Yeah. So I did my own historic remodels with my husband for years. Um, my husband actually worked in construction before he went to law school. So, like, he, you know, him and I would, would do a lot of our own stuff together in the early days, which was really fun for us.
But I also have ocd and I will, I will obsess. I will go down like rabbit holes of like, I want to know all the technical. I don't want to comment on it if I don't fully understand it. And so I'm the queen of saying, like, I'm not sure, but I'm going to find out and I'm going to let you know. And then I will do whatever I need to do to get an education on that.
I love learning. I feel like I'm just like a student of life. I'm constantly learning.
I love.
It's another reason I love making friends with, like, the GCs and the builders and the subs and like, learning from them. I learn every time I'm at a walkthrough. A walkthrough or like, I want to know it all. I want to know why. I want to know, you know, how come. How come I'm like the little kid that's. That just like, I soak that information up.
And so I'm constantly learning, but I'm also sometimes, like, shocked at how much I have learned in the time that I've been doing it.
And then I also keep people around me that are very Very knowledgeable. You know, our senior's been doing this for years and years and years. She was with Michael Smith for a long time, and she's like a wealth of knowledge.
I'm asking. I'm asking questions, and I'm not pretending that I know the answers to things that I don't. I'll just say, like, I'm not sure. I'll get back to you. You know.
[00:56:02] Speaker B: Yeah, that's super powerful. I think I was just talking about this on another episode, but, like, when someone tells me that they don't know the answer to something, I actually gained so much more trust in them because I'm like, they are being completely honest. Great. I don't expect you to know every answer. Like, that is so. And I think people need to become more comfortable with saying, I don't know. I will get back to you. So thank you for sharing that experience.
[00:56:28] Speaker A: That earns a lot of. A lot of trust, too, with clients when you're like, I'll get back to you on this date. And you do.
You do get back to them or before that, you know, but, yeah, I'm an obsessor, and I want to know everything. I want to know it all.
[00:56:44] Speaker B: I'm kind of backtracking a little bit. As we get ready to wrap up. There's just, like, a few questions that are still floating around in my mind as you were talking about how you offer.
You know, this is retail. This is luxury. This is heirloom. Once you actually have your finalized schedule of items and once your proposals are all drafted, how are you disclosing the price of each individual item or a room as a whole?
[00:57:13] Speaker A: Once we get to the point where they're paying.
It's individual items.
[00:57:17] Speaker B: Okay, it is. Okay, great. And then as you're disclosing that, are you disclosing just the retail version of that price? Just the number that they are, or are you showing them any sort of markup or, you know, margins that you guys may have?
[00:57:32] Speaker A: So we don't put it in their face that we have that, but we. It's a discussion that we have. They know what our markup is. It's on our contract, and we always talk about it during the initial meeting.
This is our mark. So if we're buying something, this is what it is.
[00:57:48] Speaker B: And then I have just, like, a general question. Obviously, you came from a super high luxury background.
How do you feel like you have been able to position yourself in, again, a super high luxury market? Was there a lot of client crossover? You know, you did A bride's wedding, and now they're ready for, like, their forever home or how. Do you have any tips for someone listening? Be like, oh, my gosh, three years in, look at what Alex is doing. She's absolutely killing it. Working on my dream projects, but I don't feel like I'm there.
[00:58:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say it's. It's something I've. I've thought about because I. I received the question before, and I think that.
I think that it's like this weird psychological thing that, like, people want luxury, but do they? You know, it's like you have to know yourself and be authentic with yourself.
It comes along with, like, a lot of handholding.
And I think that what people.
I think the biggest thing about working in luxury is the understanding that it's the relationship that you have with the other human being that's the most most important part of it and the thing that you are or should be focusing on above all else.
How does this person feel when they're around me, when they're working with me?
Am I hearing them? Am I asking the right questions?
Am I being transparent? A lot of times, the psychology of this particular person feels that if you're not fully transparent, there's a chance they could be taken advantage of.
They have to know. They have to be certain that that's not who you are or what you're doing.
And so for me, that's. That's the cornerstone of our brand is like, transparency.
Building that trust and care is. I really care about our clients, and I think that they feel that. And it's that authenticity of me saying, like, I will drop everything right now. If you're uncomfortable, let's have this conversation.
That's who I am. And that hopefully is what comes across in the brand. And then when I have our first call, I think that's probably what builds that connection between us, is like, I am in this with you.
[01:00:14] Speaker B: Are there any specific moments you can recollect in teaching your team to have that same mentality when speaking with, working with, collaborating with clients?
Because I feel like the person who's the face of the business, the person who started this, can absolutely, fundamentally feel that and execute that every day. But the person who's doing the technical drawings or the person who's, you know, doing the admin, they're a different mindset for all of the right reasons. There's a reason why they're in that role. But how do you. How are you able to maintain that same ethos when they are interacting with Clients.
[01:00:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I think that the building the right culture in your company is, like, number one. So when I say we're client focused, they all know that. My whole team knows that we're client focused. We don't say no. We discuss it. We are, you know, always kind and respectful and all of those things, but also the people that are interacting with clients. That's a specific hire.
That's a specific personality. I. Personality test everybody that we work with.
And my project manager, like I said, that's been with me for 17 years. Like, we share that. We share that mentality. I. There's no.
There would never be a thought in my mind to say like, that she can't go to a meeting for me, and I know that the clients will love her.
You know what I mean?
[01:01:48] Speaker B: Totally. Okay, Alex, I used up so much of your time. This has been such an amazing chat. But I'd love to know before we hang up, are there any upcoming projects, collabs, like top secrets, secret, exciting things that you are about to embark on that you can share?
[01:02:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
Well, first and foremost, I lost my home in the Eaton fire. And so we're rebuilding it, so my own home reveal will be at the end of this year. So that's really, really exciting for me and has been something that has taken up way too much of my brain power this year and last year.
I don't even know what it's gonna feel like once that's all over because it's been, like, all consuming.
But we're also filming a show with Homeworthy that's documenting that. So the episodes come out once a month.
So so far we've had two episodes come out, and that's been really exciting.
With that said, the episode that just recently came out was with Gracie Studios, with Jen Gracie, and we got the honor of developing a really cool custom wallpaper with her that we collaborated on for my dining room. So we did, like, a little takeoff of that for Legends this year.
So we got to work with her again for that Legends window and excited to work with her. More love, love, love, love their team.
And we're also starting to develop a line with Reggio registers for, like, a more historic, like, unique register line, which could be kind of fun.
[01:03:26] Speaker B: That is fun and so needed.
[01:03:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:03:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:03:29] Speaker A: So that's kind of. That's been keeping me entertained.
And those are like the. You know, those are some pretty big things. The hamster wheel never stops.
[01:03:39] Speaker B: Well, I'm sure all those listening, our heart is. Goes out to you for the loss of your home. But we are so excited to see what you have been mulling over for the last year and a half now and we can't wait to see where you guys end up and what that looks like. So thank you so much Alex for your time. This was so enlightening. I'm just incredibly grateful for your candor and your time today.
[01:04:04] Speaker A: This has been a dream. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful. Thanks for listening
[01:04:11] Speaker C: for more for in depth analysis of this interview including exclusive downloads, examples and more. Don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] TheInterior Collective thank you so so much for tuning into this episode.
Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. A big huge thank you to our production team at IDCO Studio and quinnmade. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible. Until until next time. I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living.
[01:05:10] Speaker B: A very special thanks to our presenting sponsor, Leloy, the makers of beautifully crafted rugs, pillows and wall art, and to our episode sponsor and seasoned partner Materia, the design platform, helping interior designers source materials, manage specifications and streamline project workflow.
