[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Today on the Interior Collective, I am honored to be sitting down with Paris of Paris McKenna Design, a Toronto based interior design firm that has experienced what I truly would call star power acceleration. Not only is Paris the principal of one of House and Home's top 100 design studios, she is a close personal friend and a dear advisor. In just a few short years, Paris has grown her studio from a new business to a multi office operation serving both Toronto and Muskoka with a large and expanding team to support it. And what fascinates me most is not just the growth, but the infrastructure behind it. We are diving into her zero to 60 trajectory, how she built momentum quickly, what operational decisions supported that scale, how she structured her team, and how YouTube became a serious marketing engine for her business. If you are in a season of growth, or hoping to be, this episode is going to give you a real look at what scaling actually requires. This season is presented by Laloy, makers of rugs, pillows and wall art collections that are grounded in ethical production, innovative craft and meticulous design. Learn more about Laloy by visiting their website laloyrugs.com that's L O L O I rugs.com and follow Loi Rugs on Instagram and TikTok.
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[email protected] and get 50% off your first month as an Interior Collective listener. That's G E T M A T e r I o.com hi Paris. Welcome to the Interior Collective. I can tell my cheeks are already hurting because I talk to you for five seconds before we hit record. And I'm just going to be giddy this whole entire time because I get to talk to one of my very best friends in the world.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: Me too. And I have been looking forward to this for so long and I'm so excited. But just this is my first podcast and just being able to like, be in a familiar zone with you, it's making my entrance into this podcast world feel very comfortable. So thank you for having me.
[00:02:11] Speaker A: Well, I will not go easy on you, so.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: Okay, I'm ready. I'm ready.
[00:02:15] Speaker A: Okay. So, Paris, I'd love to start at the beginning, the very beginning, which was not very long ago when you officially launched Paris McKenna Design. What did the business look like back on day one?
[00:02:29] Speaker B: Okay, so the kind of start of Paris McKenna design was not something that I had planned on or something that I was developing for a long period of time before it happened. It really happened out of circumstance. I was at a studio in Toronto, and it just wasn't the right environment for me anymore. And so I was talking to my husband and I said, you know, I don't know what to do now. I don't have a design in interior.
I don't have a degree in interior design, and I really don't have a ton of experience other than at this firm. And I was worried that going to start applying to other firms, I would be asked, you know, for the technical skills or have I been with other firms for many years? And he said, why don't you just try it yourself? And so there was no master business plan. I didn't have an idea of where I was going to go or what I was going to do. But I thought, okay, I love this. I think I'm good at it. I think there's enough trust in me that I've had with past projects from clients that I can try. And what's the worst that happens? The worst that happens is that it doesn't work. And then I have to go apply to other firms and see what happens there. But it really was taking a massive leap of faith, trusting myself and what I felt I know I could do.
And then literally the day after I gave my notice to the firm that I was at, I was sitting in my spare bedroom and I had my very first bag of samples from Centura, which is a tile supplier in Toronto, and it's across Canada.
And I had picked up a bag of samples, and it said, Paris McKenna design on it. And I was like, all right, here we go. It's my name on the bag, like, buckle, it's time to go.
[00:04:24] Speaker C: Yeah, Paris.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: I think I'm actually realizing I don't know the answer to this, which makes me question the depth of our friendship.
What were you doing before you were at another studio?
[00:04:35] Speaker B: Yes. Okay, so that's a great question. So I went to university for geography and sociology. I got my Bachelor of Arts. That was nothing to do with anything, but I really wanted. Wanted to go and get a university education and move away from home. So I'm from Vancouver. I moved to the other side, essentially of the country, or at least partway through to just outside of Toronto. It's a city called London. I went to university there, and I did my Bachelor of Arts and I dreamed of being a wedding planner. So then once I finished my degree at Western, I moved to Toronto and I did a diploma in event planning.
So I was the wedding planner at the Trump Hotel for, I would say, I think it was like three years.
And that was right before he ran for presidency the first time. And with the climate being what it was, it was not looking like it was going to be a long term career option. Events started not canceling as much as like, the interest in booking events just wasn't there anymore. People didn't really want to have their name associated with that. And so sorry if that's too.
But yeah, people, people just were choosing other. There's lots of luxury hotel options in Toronto and they were choosing to have events elsewhere. And so at that point I was like, well, this ship is going down. I would rather get out kind of now than. Than be in a position where I was forced to figure out something else. So at that point, my best friend had said, I know you're really interested in design.
I have. My sister's best friend is going on maternity leave. They're looking to fill her position. It's a small firm in the East End of Toronto. Why don't you go and apply and see what happens? And I was very lucky because the. It's a husband and wife owner of the. It's a real estate company, but they also have a department in design and they work on people's houses to get them ready for listing on the market. And so we did renovations on these houses before they would go to market. And the wife had a background in event planning and so she was like, okay, these skills are transferable. I can see how this, you know, could turn into something for you. You'll start junior and then you'll move your way up and see what happens. But it really, like, they took a very big chance on me. And so, you know, despite kind of the, the final months that I was there, it was a huge opportunity. It was literally where I, I learned to swim. It was very much sink or swim and figure it out. And I did. And. And I was there for six years and I grew up exponentially there. So I am forever indebted to them taking that chance on me because otherwise I would not have gotten my foot in the door quite the same way.
[00:07:17] Speaker A: Okay, well, I mean, six years is not nothing. So that definitely helps paint a better picture for me. And I'm so glad I asked you. I'm like, how did I not know that that's what you were doing?
[00:07:29] Speaker B: Just an endless, endless supply of information.
[00:07:33] Speaker A: So how many years has it technically been since you had your bag of samples that said Paris McKenna Design? And from there, at what point do you feel like Acceleration really start to begin.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. So that first day of me having my samples was October 2021, and I found out I was pregnant with my second baby in January of 2022. So all of a sudden, I was, like, about to spread my wings, and then I was like, oh, my God, I'm pregnant.
So it was a huge blessing, and it was obviously incredible, but the timing was just not what I had in mind, as sometimes happens with pregnancy.
But to the time, I really felt like, okay, this is picking up, honestly. And I'll say this to one of the other questions as well. Like, it was September of 2025, when I was like, oh, my God, this is like, I'm running a real studio now. It took. It took the first 4ish years for me to feel like this is a real thing. And even still, I'm like, I don't see myself the same way that people in my world see me or see the studio. It's. It's very much a difficult thing for me to kind of reconcile in my mind, because to me, we're still a little. A little studio, but we're not. So, yeah, it's. I would say, kind of.
It took the full four years until we've. Until I felt like, okay, this is. This is it.
[00:09:03] Speaker A: Isn't that so interesting how so many of us have this studio dysmorphia?
[00:09:10] Speaker B: A hundred percent. Oh, my God, I am so glad you said that, because I didn't know what to call it. It's like, it's not that I have imposter syndrome, because I feel very confident. I feel like if you don't like my work, that's no problem. You will go find somebody else. I'm not trying to be anybody that I'm not, but it is exactly. Studio dysmorphia. That's exactly what it. You nailed that.
[00:09:30] Speaker A: It totally is. I mean, even when I talk with Amber Lewis, she's like, we're still small fries in our brains. And I'm like, okay, wow, not so much.
[00:09:41] Speaker B: But it's true. It's true. Yeah, for sure.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: So back then in 2021, and you were pregnant with your second, was rapid growth the goal from the start, or did the demand really surprise you?
Was there demand at that point?
[00:10:05] Speaker B: Yeah. So I can kind of tell you how the.
How the trajectory went. Rapid growth was not my goal from the start. I just wanted one client. I was like, if I can just get one client, I will be very lucky. And I was very fortunate that when I let my clients that I was working with at the past firm know that I was departing. They. I mean, in interior design, it's all about building relationships, right? And even for you, it's all about building relationships. And so these clients had built their relationships with me. And so when I said, I'm departing, we're going to hand you over, you know, properly. There's going to be a seamless transition. They were like, well, we want to stay with you. What are you doing? Where are you going? And I was like, well, I'm going to try and go out on my own. I don't know what it's going to be. It's just me. I don't know.
And I was unbelievably lucky to those first handful of clients who were like, you know what? Let's try. Let's see what happens. And we trust you and we're going to go with you. So I had six clients that left the firm that I was at and go with me. And so all of a sudden, I'm sitting in my spare bedroom and I'm like, oh, okay. But now I also have a full client list of a couple of them were decorating projects, but two of them were big projects. One of the two was a tear down of a house and a whole new build, right? And so I had very.
I had a very lucky, if you will, entry into kind of my own, Start my own business. And that was during COVID That was 2021, 2022. And so there was a boom. And we all kind of felt it in the industry. It was like, people have all this money, they're at home, they want to do things. So that was great. And then it was about 2020, end of 2022, beginning of 2023. And all of a sudden things were different with COVID All of a sudden, things opened back up again. People were able to spend more money doing other things. They were going traveling, they were not investing as much in their homes. And things got really quiet for us. And it was at a point where I was like, what am I doing this for? What is my goal? What do I want to achieve? And those were, you know, pretty dire times. I laid people off at that point. I had one senior with me, and we were like, how are we going to drum up business? And we sent out mailers and we met with builders and we went for coffees with different people that we thought we could, you know, develop relationships with.
And then I wish I could put my finger on the point that it kind of turned around, but I would say like beginning of 2024, 2023 was, was the year where it was. It felt very like, oh, God, we got to figure this out.
And 2024 was when it, it picked back up. So for the last two years, I would say it's been, it's been quite, quite a trajectory.
Yeah. I don't know, like quite to the moon, you know.
[00:13:02] Speaker A: Okay, Paris, we can edit this out if you don't want to talk about it, but I know everybody is like, okay, how a. It's like everyone's worst nightmare that like their senior designer is going to go out and take all of their clients.
How. How did, how did that exit? And then clients choosing to go with you, how did that. I don't even need to know, like how that worked out with you and your boss, but like, how did that legally work out contractually for sure.
[00:13:31] Speaker B: So I did have a non compete in my agreement and beyond that, like, you know me, so you know this. But like, for everybody who's listening, I am not the type of person to stir up anything. I would never want to step on toes. I am unbelievably grateful for the experience that they gave me and the opportunities they gave me. And so for me, it was very much a thank you to my clients who have given me, you know, these last few great months.
Now I'm going to transition you into another designer on the team. And so when it became apparent that the clients were the ones who were like, we want to go with Paris, that's when I had to sit down with my former employers and say, you know, how do we make this work? And for a couple of them, there were splits. And I paid them back, like chunks of money, which were hours worked while I was there that hadn't been yet built on their side. And I thought, okay, I was working, I was using their infrastructure, I was using their resources. Absolutely, those are rightly theirs. But because it came from the clients and it was a client's directive to say, we want to go with Paris, there wasn't too much that they could do, but man, it was a very stressful time. And for me, I'm like, this is, this is way more.
Like, this is.
I. I'm not used to that level of confrontation. This was very, very nerve wracking for me. And they were also friends. And like, not the clients, but my employers, we had, you know, they're friends with Fraser and I, and, and it was important to me to maintain the relationship. So it was very much, how do we make sure. That you're. We're both even. You're taken care of, I'm taken care of. And. And, you know, they just knew, like, it wasn't me saying, hey, guys, come with me. It was the client saying, we want to go. But yes, 100%. I think that's every studio heads kind of worst nightmares. Like, all of a sudden, your clients leave with somebody else, Right?
[00:15:33] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Not to mention just like, okay, well, now they're. You know, they have our processes and all of this.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: Totally.
[00:15:40] Speaker A: A hundred percent. And when we just. When we talk about this at design camp and like, when I work on it with. It's such a natural.
Such a natural fear and feeling that people have.
But I'm always so inspired by people who really set their team up for careers, and they're like, if they're ready to go spread their wings, then, you know, they paid their dues, and that's just part of the game.
[00:16:06] Speaker B: So it was not that. It was definitely not that. It was very much like, I remember at one point they were like, you're not gonna succeed. You're gonna have no success. You're not. You don't have a degree. And it was very much, you know, stirred in me, like, if you're gonna tell me I can't, I definitely am gonna go and do it.
And then to further that, I was so hyper aware of what I would do differently if I owned a business that I. My first thing I did. So I think I.
My first day on my own was, like, October 21st, and I signed up for Design Camp, like, October 22nd. That was the first thing that I was like, I need to invest in myself. This is where I want to invest my money. And design camp is what allowed me to start my business off on the right foot. I would have.
[00:16:59] Speaker A: I.
[00:16:59] Speaker B: You know, maybe eventually I would have figured it out, but you guys set me up with this foundation that was completely opposite to what I was doing before. So, you know, again with your comment about.
[00:17:10] Speaker A: About.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: It's. It's nerve wracking if somebody was to take your systems and processes. I actually did the exact opposite. I took nothing and knew exactly what I didn't want to do and then found my footing because of design Camp.
[00:17:23] Speaker A: That is so nice, Paris. I still laugh at the fact that, like, it came up in conversation one day that I absolutely forgot you came to design Camp.
I was like, oh, my God. Paris and I are like such organic friends. Like, we met through the Internet, and she's like, girl, girl.
[00:17:42] Speaker B: She was there yes. I'm like, it was one of your earlier is ones.
[00:17:47] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it was. It would have been the 22. Yeah, yeah, it was.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: It was January 2022.
Yeah, it was your first one at Santa Monica. And like. But it was amazing. And like, I say this to everybody who is looking for business advice is like, you start there, start at design camp and then. And even people who've been in the industry for a long time, like, it's. You got a really good thing going there.
[00:18:13] Speaker A: Thank you, Paris.
Okay, so you had those six projects that came over with you when and how before it slowed down in that 2023 year. Was. Was that 2022 year mostly just those six projects? Were you onboarding anybody new? And if so, who were you finding to bring on that was not your previous or existing clients?
[00:18:37] Speaker B: Yes. Okay. So sorry, Onboarding from a employee perspective or from a client perspective?
[00:18:42] Speaker A: Sorry, From a client perspective, like, so you brought those clients over, but then how did you start getting your own clients?
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Yes, so. So it ended up being a lot of word of mouth signage and, and Instagram. I started, I started being very, just like open and public about stuff on Instagram. And like, I laughed because when we were all together in Provence and when we were all together in the Cotswold, I think out of our group, I was the only one who was posting things in real time. And everybody else is, you know, making sure that it looks polished and ready to go. And I'm just like, I just, I just post in real time. I don't know. I can't hold, like, I can't hold on to it. I don't know what. I also don't know how to edit things. So it's like, I think from the beginning I've been very myself and very transparent in all of that. And so I was able to kind of gain interest and potential clients from that. But a lot of it was word of mouth at that point.
[00:19:38] Speaker A: Okay, super helpful. We're going to get into this later.
But in this, you know, four, five year trajectory, when did you know it was time to open a Muskoka office in addition to Toronto? And whether we say office and that's, you know, you and your bedroom or, you know, a physical space, when and why did that make sense? Because that feels like. That feels fresh.
[00:20:05] Speaker B: It is. It is fresh. So again, kind of going back to this, like, I just put things on Instagram, like, I, I post whatever I posted. So we were living in Muskoka for two years and I was working on projects up there. But the majority of my projects were in the city and I was like, I want to do more up here. And so randomly in the winter of 2024, we'd had a bad snowstorm and Fraser was taking our daughter up to the school bus stop on the snowmobile. And I posted that and it was just like, funny that, like, look, we're, we're living in the middle of nowhere. He's taking her on a snowmobile up to her bus stop. And a builder in Muskoka, whoever runs his Instagram account, wrote back and said, are you local? And I said, I am, I'm living in Muskoka. And they said, okay, well, would you like to come in and have a meeting with the person who runs our company up here? We're always looking for local talent up here. And Toronto has, as you know, a, a lot of designers and a lot of designers also work in Muskoka, but there's not a huge market in Muskoka of, of kind of born and bred only Muskoka designers. There's for sure a few, but there's more Toronto transplants that do work up there.
So I had a meeting. His name's Aaron, he runs a company called Hummingbird. And I had a meeting with Aaron and I thought, this is great. I, this is the type of connection that I want to make. And when I was meeting with Aaron, he said, have you met Alex Forshoe? He is an architect up in Muskoka as well. And I said, I've not met him, I know his work, he does incredible stuff, would love to meet him. And he said, why don't I set up a meeting with you guys? I thought, great.
So I meet Alex in July.
Sorry, July. January 2025.
And we're now February 2026. And as of now, over the last year, we have developed a working relationship that entails Alex proposing to clients a full service build opportunity where he handles interior exteriors, I handle interiors, and then there's landscaping and all of that. So that is now what he pitches on projects. And his reason for that is he is a very, very detailed architect, as most are.
But he wanted to have greater control over the whole process. He didn't want to as much develop the envelope and then hand it over to the builder or the design team comes in from a different company and, you know, things don't marry between the interior and exterior. So he was really looking for this partner, if you will. And I was looking to do more work in Muskoka. And so we developed kind of this plan, if you will, to have this full service approach. And it then was part of the overall kind of function of the office was to make sure that we have people there in person. And so now I have two people that work out of his office.
They are up there essentially full time. I go up once a week, and we are working out of Alex's office. So we have our own little area. And that way when clients come in, they're meeting with him, then they're meeting with us. And it's a very holistic kind of approach. But it was only when I started to have this conversation with Alex and when we realized, like, we both wanted something from each other that it was able to develop into. Into this approach. So we're really lucky. Muskoka is a very different market than Toronto, and I'm very lucky to be involved there.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: Had you done a project with Alex before this came up?
[00:23:45] Speaker B: Okay, no. But our lovely mutual friend Tiffany. So Tiffany had been talking to Alex. Tiffany has done a project with Alex before, and she had been in talks with him to do his house.
[00:23:58] Speaker A: And
[00:24:00] Speaker B: I think ultimately what it comes down to is just they have different aesthetics overall. And so Tiffany had said you would maybe be better. Do you want to talk to my friend Paris?
And Alex then reached out to me because of that. And then when Aaron from Hummingbird connected us, it kind of all came full circle. And Alex and his wife ended up hiring me to do their own house. So in that kind of.
We're hiring you to do our own house. Let's also see how we can turn this into a bit more of a full service approach for clients.
[00:24:32] Speaker A: How different are those two markets from, like, an operational standpoint? So you said you have two people up there, you're going up there once a week. I actually didn't realize you were in office in Muskoka once a week.
Do you approach projects differently in Muskoka versus in Toronto?
[00:24:52] Speaker B: Very different. All the way down to, like, our pricing structure. We do different pricing in Toronto than we do in Muskoka.
We have, you know, our overall process is the same. How we work through design, how we get into our technical drawings, our, you know, site visits, those things are the same.
But I would say our pricing is very different. And the, the budgets and the landscape are very different. Toronto, we do a lot of renovations. There's not as many new builds that we work on a lot of, like, infills in Toronto, you're, you know, renovating these old homes. We're in Muskoka. The people that I'm working with through Alex are tear downs, new builds. We're building big cottages, two story boat houses, big garages that are also like these games rooms and lofts and all of that. So the scope is quite different. But I would say our pricing and just the general kind of landscape of what's up there is. Are the two biggest things.
[00:25:55] Speaker A: Okay. Two clarifying points I feel like we need to make. A, the Tiffany you're referring to is Tiffany Lee design.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: Yes, that's the one.
[00:26:01] Speaker A: B, Paris. And apparently all Canadians use the term cottage very loosely. So when she's talking about cottages, in my brain as an American, they are tearing down cottages and they are building mansions. Cottage means lake house in Canadian. So you're aware.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: Yes, yes. So these cottages, like for example, one that we're working on with Alex, the cottage is 7,500 square feet. So loose term.
[00:26:28] Speaker A: Yes, yes, that is a colloquialism that is, is. Is different amongst our neighboring countries. Yes.
So, okay, how many people are currently on your team across both offices?
[00:26:40] Speaker B: So we have 10 people, including myself, across both offices, which is to me like, oh my God. And I, we just brought on two new people in the last two weeks and we have our Monday morning meetings. Everybody is on site in our office in Toronto on Monday mornings. And the other day all the chairs were full and I was like, oh my God. Like, oh my God. Because it wasn't always like that. So, yes, 10 people across the two, the two teams.
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[00:27:54] Speaker A: This spring, laloy is headed back to High Point Market with so many new introductions, including a debut rug collection that's made with a groundbreaking new construction along with a beautiful spring season from Rifle Paper Company. They're also hosting exclusive high Point events in their showroom, including one with designer Amber Lewis. If you haven't already, book your High point
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Okay, so you have your Muskoka team drive into the city on Mondays for this in person.
[00:28:27] Speaker B: Yes. So the.
[00:28:29] Speaker A: The.
[00:28:30] Speaker B: The senior who's leading Muskoka was a Toronto person, and he was here on contract because one of our seniors was on mat leave, and he is fantastic. And our senior, Kimberly, was coming back from maternity leave, and I knew I didn't want to lose Jake because he's amazing, but I didn't need three seniors because I've got Kimberly, who's coming back from mat leave, Dana, who's fantastic, and then Jake. And so we hadn't quite come up to the point of the end of his contract where we were going to discuss what was going to happen. But leading up to it, I had posted that I needed a senior in Muskoka. And he was like, would you consider me for the role? And I was like, yeah, but you and your husband live in Toronto. And he was like, we have a place up north. I really want this opportunity.
Can I go up there? You know, go up Monday nights, come back down Friday mornings type thing. And so Alex and I kind of worked through the logistics of that because, again, I want to be aware and considerate to what he is looking for. And that, ultimately was something that was gonna work out. So Jake is up there the majority of the week, but he does start his week in the city, and then he goes up north. And then Kelly, our newest junior designer, she lives halfway between Toronto and Muskoka, so she does a bit of a commute.
[00:29:47] Speaker A: Got it. Okay. Amazing. Okay, let's talk company structure. So you kind of broke it down a little bit, but let's talk about who reports to whom, what roles exist inside the firm. And I always want to know, like, where do you feel like your role is now that all your chairs are full?
[00:30:01] Speaker B: All my chairs are full. It's crazy. Okay, so we have three senior designers, One intermediate and two juniors. So the intermediate and the two juniors are reporting to their respective seniors. Because my goal when I first started was that I wanted enough business that I could have these two perfect little teams. A senior, an intermediate, and a junior. And they would be their own kind of little bubbles, and they would be able to handle projects independently of the other team, and that when a new project came in, I could assign it to one of those two teams. So I am almost there. I've got two seniors and a junior in Toronto, and I've got a senior and a junior in. In Muskoka. And then the intermediate goes between the two.
So we're very close. But I, I rely on these seniors to be the ones who the intermediate and the juniors are reporting to. And then the seniors and I meet once a week and we go over everything that we need to go over.
Our studio manager reports to me, our marketing and brand manager reports to me, and then our account manager as well reports to me. So I still am, I'm still quite involved, but we can go through it if you want. But I worked as, you know, with Brookstool and completely, completely changed my day to day and my role and the amount of stress that I had on my plate.
[00:31:27] Speaker A: So, yeah, interesting. You changed the amount of stress you had on your plate.
[00:31:32] Speaker B: Oh my God, yeah.
[00:31:33] Speaker A: Does that mean that you feel like you gave up creative, that you got to get back to creative? What is.
I'm just interested in what does it mean to you that the stress on your plate changed after working with Brooke.
[00:31:45] Speaker B: So I think the biggest thing for me was that when I was designing, I was always the bottleneck. I was the one that people were waiting for answers or design direction or whatever it was so that they could go do their parts. But as you know, running a business in itself is a full time job. And so I was always saying, okay, I'm going to get to it. I'm going to get to it. I'll get to it at night after the kids are in bed, or I'll get to it on the weekends or whatever. And I remember very clearly it was Father's Day last year and Fraser said to me, and he, and he's not really like a make a decision kind of like he wants me to do whatever is going to make me happy and whatever is going to fulfill my soul and whatever he needs to do to support that, he will do. But he said, I think you need to have a hard look at things because what you're doing right now isn't working. You are not available as a mother in the way that I know you want to be as a wife. Like, bless his heart, you still said I was doing a good job, but I do not think I was doing a good job. And as a boss, I knew where my shortcomings were because everybody's always waiting on me and asking me if I'm gonna, you know, get there and get there and get there. And so we had this really like deep conversation about how things needed to shift. And I said at that point, I have such an incredible team and I will sing their praises forever. And I will say a thousand times over, I would not be here without my team. There is absolutely no way. And so the design portion, the technical skills, that was covered, what wasn't covered is the business. And so I am not at a point yet where I trust, not trust, where I am ready to hand over my business reigns to somebody else. And so in working with Brooke, it was very much about how to make sure that everybody on the team had the. The empowerment and the ability to do what needed to be done without relying on me, which allowed me to focus on the business things, which in turn allowed me to, like, I go home at the end of the day, and nine times out of ten, I close my computer when I leave work, and that's it. And that was not the case before I started working with Brooke.
And I am with my kids when I'm home, and I'm with my husband, and I am present, and I am not holding up and anything on the design side, which I'm like, like, she made it. Brooke made it work for me. She made it work. And I mean, to answer your question, like, I am not in the weeds with designing. I am creating the overall direction. I am saying, this is what I want this project to look and feel like. And the seniors are then coming to me, and they're saying, these are the concepts. Okay, yep, tweak this, change that, whatever. And then they're coming to me for the design presentations. Review all of these samples. Let me know what you want to tweak. And I'm making the tweaks. And it feels kind of cool to be the one who. I'm like, that. I don't like that, like, change it. And then they do, you know, but it's different. I'm not the one who's designing as much anymore. And also with that, we had to do kind of an overhaul with how our clients understood our team functions. Right. And it is my name on the door. And, you know, I don't have a studio name that it's kind of ambiguous or vague that it could be anybody leading it. Right. And so I. I had to be very careful, and I still am very careful about when I'm involved and where I kind of step in, while also making sure that I give the clients the ability to trust in my designers, because they are freaking fantastic.
[00:35:24] Speaker A: Were you proactive about hiring ahead of demand, or were you pretty consistently hiring in reaction to growth? Like, into specific inquiries? You're like, oh, shit, I need to hire someone to be able to do this job because I feel like it's a chicken or the egg question that a lot of designers struggle with.
[00:35:44] Speaker B: Yes, I. I was more reactive, just in general. I have a very. Like, I have a separate bank account, like in our corporate accounts, for just profits, because I need to know, like, am I doing where is. What money is ours and what is accounts payable and all of that. So I have a very hard time financially committing to something when I don't know what the outcome is going to be. So I was very reactive in that sense.
I hired, for example, when Kimberly went on matlieve the first time, I knew I needed coverage, so I hired. But for the rest, it was reactive. It was projects coming in and we need more support. And here's where we're at.
With the exception, I would say, of Lily, our junior designer, who came on, I believe it was in August or maybe September. I knew we needed a junior, but I didn't think that we were going to have enough to fill, like, a salaried role. And, oh, my God, have I proven myself wrong? Like, this girl could work 80 hours a week if I let her. But I try not to, because you got to have some balance. But, yeah, it's. Yeah.
[00:36:50] Speaker A: What was your first key hire, and how did that decision change your capacity? So, I mean, I don't know how quickly you hired someone. Please tell me, but, like, you started with six projects at, you know, various stages of their completion.
What was that first hire? And do you feel like that was the right one?
[00:37:11] Speaker B: So something I learned at design camp was, you know, hire for the skills that you need and for what you don't necessarily.
Not that I didn't want to do it, but what was taking up my time that could be better spent elsewhere? So my first hire was like an admin and procurement role. She came on three months in because there was just so much admin and so much procurement and all of that. So that was my first hire. Wouldn't have changed that. She was fantastic. She was with us for many years. She ended up being. She was part time. I needed full time. She couldn't do that. So we have somebody full time now.
But it's interesting. It's like I had key hires at different stages. Like, my first key hire was that my second key hire was technical. Like, I am not trained in AutoCAD or Revit. I do not do the technical drawings.
We leveled up so much when we had Dana come on our team, who is our senior technical designer, and she was incredible.
And that almost took us to the next Level where we were handing over construction drawings that I was really proud of. And I was like, this is how a real studio hands over construction drawings.
And then I would say, you know, just kind of bringing in the support as needed. But those were probably the two key hires. The very beginning was admin and procurement and the second was technical.
[00:38:31] Speaker A: Got it. Okay. Across multiple offices and design teams. How do you feel like you're maintaining consistency in your design standards and client experience when you're not necessarily the person doing the client communication, your teams are and you have Monday meetings in person. So you can definitely set the tone with that. But when you've got people in different places, different projects, different pricing models, how are you maintaining standards?
[00:39:04] Speaker B: That's a great question. So I did all of our SOPs with Brooke. I went through the biggest deep dive you can imagine and I'm sure as you know from, from working with her, but we standardized everything and it is so detailed and so down to like the minutiae of things that every new hire has to read that and understand it. And the seniors are responsible for executing that. So I am there checking in and making sure that things are overall going as they need to. But it is very much the senior's responsibility to ensure that what our SOPs are, are being followed. And listen, I mean things are evolving all the time. I just stepped out of this design role and into more of this like founder and creative director role. So I am still very heavily involved. And even though I'm not the one replying to client emails and actually designing things, I am copied on everything. I am still talking to my team a hundred times a day. I am not like sitting in my office with my door closed just looking at numbers type thing.
And hopefully one day it will get to a point where there's less kind of not involvement but just that I won't need to have as many check ins. But for now, while we're all still moving through this kind of new model that really has only been implemented since I finished with Brooke, which was in September of last year, like we're still, we're still just making sure things work and things come up and we have to deal with them as they come up.
[00:40:37] Speaker A: Yeah. For those listening who don't know the jargon, SOP Standard Operating Procedure. And Brooke definitely spells out literally every single thing, your exact process of how you order, how you do your drawings. Like any task that happens within your business, Brooke is helping you build exactly how that's done so that anybody who onboards can know exactly how could step into your business after working with Brooke? Ideally, I could come in and run Paris McKenna Design for probably not a super long time, but you could run
[00:41:15] Speaker B: it for a solid year. Okay. You would be set up for one year.
[00:41:20] Speaker A: Just, just in case the SOP language didn't make sense to someone.
What do you feel like was the biggest operational mistake you've made during this growth that you would caution other designers against?
[00:41:35] Speaker B: I would say this probably has to do with just like outside influence, which software to use, who to hire, what your consultation should look like. I, I know it's so cliche to say, but like, I wish that I would have just gone a bit more with my gut rather than thrown a bunch of stuff at the wall and, and waited to see what stuck.
Like, for example, I spent a whole whack of money onboarding with Dubsado. Absolutely hated it. Do not use Dubsado. I'm sure it's wonderful for the people who use it and enjoy it and that's great, but for me it wasn't the right system. And so operationally I think, you know, I thought I needed Dubsado, so I did Dubsado. I thought I needed to have a junior designer when I was first starting, when I didn't need a junior designer. And I unfortunately had to let her go because I didn't need somebody green. I needed somebody who was ready to go, who could take the initiative, who could be on site, who could, you know, the things that a senior is a little bit more capable of. And so I wish not, I wish everything led me to here, but I probably would have of tuned out the noise a little bit about what I should do, you know, just based on other people's opinions.
[00:42:54] Speaker A: Okay, can we talk about pricing? And I'm interested, especially because you have two pricing models. In practice, are you charging flat rate, hourly cost plus hybrid model?
Yeah, anything you can give us.
[00:43:08] Speaker B: Great questions. Okay. Totally happy to be an open book. And obviously between you and Lindsay, sharing all of your wonderful information, I feel like you guys have opened up the design community to sharing so much information and I love that about what you guys do.
So we do, we have mostly the same model across, but the first phase is different. So in Toronto we have an hourly design phase, then we move into a procurement percentage and then we have install. So hourly in Toronto is anything to do with the initial consultations, which we charge for to go to somebody's house and put together a proposal. We do charge for that.
Budgeting, getting quotes, actually designing the space, executing the construction drawings, all of those things is an hourly rate.
Then when we move to the procurement, we charge a 20% procurement fee on top of the cost of goods sold. So for the most part, we do not pass along our discounts on anything that we get discounts on. So, for example, Crate and barrel, if something's $100, that's the retail price, we would get it for $80. We do not pass along that $20 savings to the clients. We keep that.
We charge the 20% procurement fee on the retail price. So on that 100%, and that covers all of the coordination for our procurement gal to do, she handles all the ordering, receiving any damages, anything to do with that. Right.
And that 20% is also on our warehousing fees. So we use a third party warehousing facility. They receive and inspect and store all our goods until we're ready for install. So that 20% covers all of that. And then when we move into installation, it just felt weird to have our whole team on site and everybody charging one hour for their time for like eight hours a day type thing. So we do a flat fee for that, and that is $4,000 per day of installation for. And it really is usually the entire team because it's their big installs.
And then in Muskoka, we are entertaining a per square foot fee for the design phase. And this is very new to me. This is how Alex does it for his projects. And I am interested to see like we're trying it. I'm going to look at the data in a year or six months and see if we lost money or made money or broke even. But for now, we are doing a square footage fee for design up until the point that we hand over the construction drawings.
Then we move into. So there's still the 20% procurement on that. And then we move into what we're calling construction administration. So anything on site, anything that has to be modified in terms of drawings, if there's a change on site, if there's change orders, anything like that. So once the design package is handed over, then we move into this hourly. So, so it's flat fee, procurement hourly, and then install in Muskoka. So it's a whole jumble of things. I don't know, I don't know. I feel like every podcast that you've put out that I've listened to, I don't know what the answer is, whether it should be flat fee or hourly.
[00:46:17] Speaker A: If you've been listening to the Interior
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I have spent a lot of time and put more and more focus here on this show trying to figure that out and understanding that everybody's studio runs differently based off of experience and also based off of preference. So there is not a right one. I will say that I'm starting to hear and maybe it's because like we're creating these spaces where people can talk about it more openly, but I am starting to hear a more general consensus that it makes sense for design to be a flat fee based off of hourly data, of course.
And then procurement being a percentage. Some people are still doing procurement hourly, some people that makes that is more profitable for them.
And then construction administration, definitely hourly because you have no control over that.
[00:47:37] Speaker B: Totally.
[00:47:37] Speaker A: And then I know Lindsey does flat fee for install day. A lot of other people are using. I've also seen some people build that into their initial design fee, flat rate, just so that can be, you know, one less phase that they have to out for someone.
But that is something I'm seeing really become more popular. So I'm interested to follow up with you and see how the square foot model goes. That definitely makes sense. When you guys are working directly hand in hand in a package project with an architect, you're building something from the ground up. I can see how that would be something that you're exploring.
[00:48:12] Speaker B: Totally. So fingers crossed. It pans out.
Yeah.
[00:48:17] Speaker A: Did your price. How has your pricing evolved as the business grew and if so, how frequently do you feel like you've been adjusting it?
[00:48:24] Speaker B: Another design camp tidbit. I increase my rates every six months.
I think the biggest thing that I am looking at now. So from start of October 2021 to now, every designer on the team, including myself, has been at one rate. The juniors know more in some, like some circumstances than I do. They're technically trained. I am not. I am, you know, good at things that other people are not. So I, I made the choice to have us all at one fee across the board, one hourly rate.
I am toying with the idea of moving into a tiered pricing model and I'm Interested to see how that goes.
[00:49:10] Speaker A: And.
[00:49:10] Speaker B: And we'll see. Like, you know, I'll be at one rate. The seniors will be at another rate. Intermediate and junior will be at another rate.
But, you know, across the. The last four and a half years, it's been. Everybody's at the same hourly rate other than, like, account management and procurement. When we did do procurement hourly, because we used to do procurement hourly. But other than that, designers have always been at the same rate, but a rate increase every six months.
[00:49:35] Speaker A: Okay, perfect.
At what point do you feel like you really understood your numbers, your margins, and your profitability? Because I will say Brooke Stoll says without hesitation that you are the most profitable design business she has ever worked with.
[00:49:52] Speaker B: And. And I cry about, like, I, like, have tears. I'm like, how. How did I do that? Like, I don't.
[00:49:59] Speaker A: We're all like, how did you.
[00:50:00] Speaker B: I don't know. I don't know. And I'm like, there's an element of me that I'm, like, so proud. But truly, all I want to do is just give that back to the team. I just want to find ways to make sure that everybody knows it is not just me. Like, yes, the risk falls on me, and, yes, if something goes wrong, it's ultimately me. But, like, God, it is such a team effort. And so when Brooke said that, I'm like, how can I make sure that everybody feels as proud of this accomplishment? Because I think it's an accomplishment. Like, I just want everybody to feel that and to be able to be proud, to be part of something that's seemingly going pretty well. So, I mean, I will say I felt super, super confident in understanding my numbers when I finished with Brooke. That was October. And then, as you know, Design Docs, which was the Canadian program that several design studios used, was purchased by Studio Designer. And many designers did their migration throughout 2025 to the new platform of Studio Designer. We did our migration in the middle of November, and I sadly, have not had confidence or visibility into my numbers since November. So we are working through it. Everybody on my financial team and the studio designer team are acutely aware of my stresses of not being able to see where my numbers are.
And, you know, I have to appreciate that there are growing pains in all of that when moving to a new platform. But I would say the last three months have been very.
Just my nerves had been a little bit more heightened because my numbers are not correct in studio, and that makes me nervous. But before that, after I'd finished everything with Brooke, I was Feeling like I knew exactly what was going on.
[00:51:49] Speaker A: Okay, studio, if you're listening. Although I know, I know that you're. They're aware.
[00:51:54] Speaker B: They're aware, they're aware. And luckily, it seems that, um, I'm not the only one going through this. I think that there are a lot of the Canadian companies that have moved over that are being very vocal about the challenges that have arisen from this migration.
[00:52:11] Speaker A: Yeah, from the acquisition.
[00:52:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:13] Speaker A: Okay. How, how do you evaluate capacity now as someone who's leading a studio? And truly, you're running the business now. As you said, you're not necessarily designing. Is there, like, a maximum number of active projects you allow at one time? Are you still in this stage of growth that you're like, if the business is coming, I'll keep grow.
[00:52:32] Speaker B: That's a good question. I have, like, a bit of a problem with a scarcity mindset and, like, I had to print out like, chat GPT mantras for myself the other day because I'm like, oh, God, inquiries haven't been coming in lately. Like, are we still going to be okay? So because of that mindset, I, I will take on more business. However, I have made a conscious decision over the last couple years to not take on business that does not align with our overall goals or the design direction that we want to move towards or if it's going to make our portfolio better.
And so the answer is, is yes, I will take new business if it makes sense. But we are at.
We've got 10 active projects right now, and that feels, that feels good. And they're tight.
I want people to be at the point where they feel like they have enough work to, you know, move through the week and they're not kind of sitting there twiddling their thumbs, but not to the point where, like, they're, you know, working till 10, 11 o' clock at night. Like, I don't want people to have that life.
[00:53:42] Speaker A: Would you take on another three great projects if they felt amazing but you knew you had to hire? Or do you feel like your team's where you wanted to be?
[00:53:52] Speaker B: My team's where I wanted to be. I, I don't, I don't want to have a bigger studio. My dream, my goal, when I started this again, I didn't have this dream of running a business, but when I did start my. My dream was to have these two teams and then the support as needed. And because I feel like I'm there with maybe a little bit of refining, like, yeah, I, I would rather take on projects or put people on a wait list, which scares me so much. Cause I'm like, what if they go somewhere else? But we're. We're trying that out now. And I feel like this is the size of the team that I want to keep, because ultimately then it becomes about people, management. Right. And making sure that the employees are managed and feel good and all of that. And, yeah, I like where we're at.
[00:54:40] Speaker A: Before we hit record, on today's conversation, you were. I just mentioned that, you know, this episode. Every episode gets about 10,000 views in the first couple of weeks. And you were, like, laughing about it because you're like, oh, God. But at the same time, you have a huge following on YouTube. So I feel like we need to talk about YouTube because from an outside, I. I call myself an outside perspective. I feel like I know your business and know you very well, but we need to talk about YouTube because it's something we haven't super explored here on the show.
What made you decide to start your YouTube channel and how's it going?
[00:55:20] Speaker B: It's going great.
[00:55:21] Speaker A: So
[00:55:23] Speaker B: what made me decide to start it? I knew we were going to be doing this renovation. I knew it was going to be extensive. And I had your personal. My personal home, yes. Yeah. So we bought this house.
We knew we were moving back to the city, so we were living in Muskoka. Loved Muskoka. The business was so busy in Toronto, and I was going back and forth so often, and Fraser, my husband, was going back and forth so often for work as well, that ultimately we were like, okay, we can't be leaving our kids all this. This. Like, we need to. We need to go back to the city.
So we bought a house that we knew we were going to renovate.
And the. The main catalyst for wanting to do YouTube was because I feel still now that people don't actually know what interior designers do or they don't understand the depth of what designers do. I think there's a lot of picking paint and picking fabrics and pillows and. And yes, that is a component. But, like, I see these reels on Instagram which make me laugh, because they're like, people think an interior designer is. And it's like all the emojis of, like, painting nails and, like, paintbrush and, you know, like stars and all that. But then they say, but actually it's. And you've got, like, the scientist calculations and the, you know, like the different, like, calculators and all of that. And it's like, no, we are so much more than just Palettes and that kind of thing. And so I thought if I could film this and teach people or give people at least an inside perspective on what it looks like to work with a designer and a builder, not just, you know, a one off contractor, would that help people who potentially want to work with me understand what's involved and the level of detail that's required? And so that was kind of the main jumping off point. The second part was that Fraser was like, it'd be cool to watch this back in five years and, you know, see all the decisions that were made. But ultimately it was.
I had the resource of a house. I had the ability to film whenever I wanted. And so I made like a pretty, pretty hefty investment in the filming of that with the expectation that it would probably get like 10 views, like my mom and like my sisters and maybe that. And I remember talking to you and you said, if it flops, no one's gonna know. And I thought, oh God, that takes the pressure off completely. Like, who cares? And then when it didn't flop, I was like, oh, this is great that it didn't flop, you know, and, and I was very fortunate because through that series I was able to work with a lot of great partners. I had a lot of very beautiful sponsored product that went into the house and things that I wouldn't normally have put necessarily in the sense that it would have been outside of our budget. And so like, you know, luck or new, for example, we got an incredible price on the range I, I would not have had in our budget to put a luck or new range in. So, you know, hopefully it's not wasted on me because I don't cook, but it looks beautiful in this space at least, and Fraser uses it, but yeah, it's. It, it was, it almost turned into like a bit of a phenomenon that I was not expecting at all.
[00:58:43] Speaker A: Okay, so how involved are you in the production of YouTube? Are you scripting, filming, editing in house? Like, what did it look like? You mentioned you had to make a sizable investment just to produce it. How, how producy are you?
[00:58:59] Speaker B: I am, I am very minimally producy. I did not script it. I showed up when I was supposed to show up. I said, so Chelsea, who produced the YouTube series, I hired her, she was freelance and she, she is very good at storytelling and figuring out how to make a topic, like, be interesting to, you know, the audience. And so she would give me talking points.
I luckily am not a.
I think I'm just not like a nervous person, necessarily. In front of the camera. Like, I don't.
If people are going to talk negatively, like, then they're going to talk negatively, but chances are they won't. And if they do, like, it really doesn't matter to me. And so I think I didn't. I, I didn't care as much in terms of this has to be perfect. I just wanted people to have a real insight into not only who I was, but also what the process is. And so Chelsea was the one who stick handled all of that. She would send me my, you know, the, the cuts for me to take a look at and make sure that I liked, and I would tweak things here and there if needed. But I, I was not.
I was not the director at all.
[01:00:16] Speaker A: Well, you are such a natural. You come across on camera, so. So, I mean, way better than you do in person.
[01:00:24] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I know. You know, right?
[01:00:27] Speaker A: No, but it's. It was, it was so great to watch. It was so, so well done. Thank you. Okay, in hindsight, because you guys are living in your beautiful home now that project's wrapped. I know we've talked offline about, like, okay, what do I do with YouTube now? But looking back on the project of your tutor project, what kind of content do you feel like performed? Really, really well? Was it the behind the scenes? Was it problem solving? Educational? Was it the reveal? Was it, like, the lifestyle aspect of it? Were there categories that you and Chelsea, I think you said were like, okay, this one really stuck. We're going to do more of this.
[01:01:06] Speaker B: Yeah. To be honest, it was a lot of the, like, not necessarily, like, blooper style, but when I was truly just me, when we weren't necessarily going through different design details or the final reveal. Like, I think the mid season, if you will, episodes got actually more views than even the final reveal. And I think it's because there was a dynamic between Fraser and I when he was on the episodes that I think resonated well. People really liked when he was involved in, like, on Instagram and on YouTube.
Those did really well. But it really was when I was my most, like, natural, normal self, when there wasn't as much of a, like, production element to it.
So I would say behind the scenes, maybe. And like, I remember I got a lot of views on this one video where I'm like, taking a sledgehammer to the post on the stairs. And as the, like, end kind of blooper, Chelsea had included the clip where I was like, oh, my God, I need a fake cut. Like, I can't I can't sledgehammer this thing. And people loved it. And it was just like, okay, is it just because I'm, I'm just normal and relatable and can't smash out a post with a sledgehammer? I don't know. Right.
But I think that ultimately was what performed the best. And it was very much about like, just me as a person being the same as I am in real life on camera.
[01:02:29] Speaker A: You absolutely are 100%. How does Fraser feel about being Can Canada's two part throb? I mean, like, what is it like now that he's famous?
[01:02:41] Speaker B: Do you know? Like, there were many DMS in my Instagram being like, I think Fraser should be leading this show. We're like, can somebody get Fraser his own YouTube show? But like, it's hilarious because again, going back to like, he's just so supportive and we'll do whatever, whatever I, I am asking him to be part of.
But I think it's just, it's, it's hilarious. And he was, he's amazing. And he's a very, like, buttoned up guy. It takes a minute for him to like, you know, warm up and for people to feel like, oh, we really like, can, can get in deep with Fraser. And so I think just seeing that kind of like, laid back side of him was, I think people liked it.
[01:03:21] Speaker A: And he's like, and now it's documented. See guys, I'm chill. I'm a chill guy.
[01:03:25] Speaker B: Not as serious as you think.
[01:03:27] Speaker A: I'm super relaxed.
[01:03:28] Speaker B: So relaxed.
[01:03:31] Speaker A: Okay. Have you seen a direct correlation between YouTube growth and client inquiries?
[01:03:37] Speaker B: Yes, yes.
I would say, hands down, between my own YouTube and house and Home magazine. So they have a digital media division as well. And so I started to do a lot of property tours with them. That's kind of of one of the things that they do on their digital media side. Between the house and home videos and my own YouTube, I have seen like exceptional inquiries from that. And not only that, but the inquiries when I'm having my discovery calls. The, the conversion has been much higher than in the past because people have said to me, like, we feel like we know you, we know your personality, we know your style, we know, like, you like this or that or, you know, for example, I despise pot lights or recessed lighting or whatever. You know, everybody calls them in different areas of the world, but people know that when they're working with me, the chances of me putting in a pot light are pretty slim to none. So it has given people an insight into me that would be very hard to translate on just like a 30 minute discovery call, you know.
So that's been. Been great and you know, I've been very fortunate to have great print coverage as well. And that has been, has been crickets in terms of inquiries. So video might be where it's at, you know.
[01:04:58] Speaker A: Okay, thank you for the very well timed transition to our next question.
For designers listening who are just so intimidated by video, it just feels like, I mean, forget even just being comfortable on camera, just like the investment.
What would you say about the return on investment of long form content?
[01:05:21] Speaker B: I would say in my opinion it is completely worth it. My ROI has paid itself off many times over.
However, I do think you need to have a purpose in terms of what you are putting out there. I think to do it, just to do it will probably fall flat because I, I think people need to, people need to learn something from you or they need to experience something new or they need to see something they've not seen before. And you don't have to reinvent the wheel to go on to onto video. You don't have to be the smartest or the best or whatever, but you need to, you need to have something that people are interested in. And so if you have a topic or if you have a conversation point or if you just want to go on to tell people more about your process or how you work or little interview style episodes, the return is there. That gives people a really raw look of who you are and what it's like to work with you. Because I do think there's an element of like, you know, designers are, are this, are these, you know, we see them in the, in print or on video and like, oh, are they. Is it unattainable to work with a designer? It's like, no, we're just people like. But you just need to convey that on video. It's a lot easier to do that on video than anywhere else.
[01:06:46] Speaker A: It's so interesting to me because your brand presence feels very polished and confident, very buttoned up your.
I mean, I feel like you are so warm personally. But like that comes across in video. How intentional were you about brand positioning early on?
Because the, the way you are in person and maybe that's why video has been so successful for you because it's allowed you to tell this layered story that like you're more than just super buttoned up and polished. You're very pleasant to be.
[01:07:20] Speaker B: I would say so. My sisters, they live in Vancouver. They are, they run a Boutique brand and marketing studio. And they have done my branding since the beginning and they have been very vocal about how to appear kind of online, but not vocal in the way that it's like you have to look like this and you have to do this, but more about you are, who you are, you're talented in this capacity.
Show people that, show people who you are and who you can help and what you can do. And let's also make sure your grid looks polished to a degree, you know.
And so I think there's an element of. I have been focused on my brand identity for a long time and what I want it to come across as. But I'm a bit different than other designers where I will only post certain things or I will only, you know, highlight something if it, if it aligns with whatever. And I, I think again, because it's, it's kind of, it's just me, like I'm from Vancouver. I kind of just have this like laid back, west coast kind of vibe to myself. And I hope that doesn't sound like weird to say that about myself, but it's, I just don't want to be too serious about it. You know, I think I, I've been so fortunate to have the clients I have and now I am trying more to speak to the type of clients that I want, very much so. And I will do that through continuing YouTube and all of that. But at the end of the day, I'm just a person who people trust to design their homes. And that doesn't make me any better or any worse than anybody else. And so let me just show my presence and my own life.
[01:09:15] Speaker A: There's a lot of conversation in the industry that like, oh, are our ideal clients really on Instagram?
You know, people who have $10 million, whatever it is, a hundred million dollars, whatever ideal client, like top budget is you have in your head. Do you feel like those clients that you want to be speaking to are on YouTube?
[01:09:36] Speaker B: On YouTube? Yes. On Instagram? No, I do not think our ideal client lives on you. On Instagram.
YouTube, yes. And it's interesting because I do find that Instagram is very much, I don't know what all the generations names are at this point anymore, but like 18 to like 45 or whatever. Right? Like those people are on Instagram quite a bit. But I have found that it is the 40, 50, 60 year olds that are on YouTube and watching YouTube. And so that is where I have found my inquiries are coming in. And those are my ideal clients. Yes, very much. I feel like, it's. It's YouTube as opposed to Instagram, for sure.
[01:10:17] Speaker A: That is so interesting.
[01:10:19] Speaker B: I know.
[01:10:19] Speaker A: Thank you for spelling that out.
So scaling quickly can be exhilarating and, like, the best, most fun adrenaline rush, but it's also so exhausting. And I know that, like, you and Fraser had that moment when it's like, what is this? What are we doing? What does this look like?
What has this level of growth cost you? Personally,
[01:10:40] Speaker B: it had cost me the ability to be a present partner and mom. And I know that, you know, you're a working mother as well. You. You always feel, hopefully I'm not putting words in your mouth, but, like, you always feel like you're dropping the ball in some area, you know, and like, you want to be there when you have to be here, or vice versa. And I think at the end of the day, that kind of hard, intense conversation made me realize that, first and foremost, my priority is my family and my priority is my children and my husband. And I am fortunate enough to be able to implement the resources in the team structure to make sure that I can be those things outside of work. And so if you had asked me this question in June 2025, I would have said it. It has cost me my relationship to a degree and my presence as a mom.
Fast forward eight months later or however many months later after working with Brooke, and I have gotten that back. And I did a lot of really tough work, and I cried a lot, and I spent many nights thinking, why don't I just give this all up? But there was still something in me that was like, you don't need to yet. Try and exhaust other options. And so that ultimately was something that I was very lucky to be able to do with Brooke. But again, like, as you know, there is a lot of work that's involved in that, and I put in the hard work and the effort, and I was really rewarded for that.
[01:12:20] Speaker A: It is a lot of hard work. And I know we've talked. Paris, you've been so generous mentioning everybody that you worked with. I will make sure that everybody is linked in the show notes. Brooke of Brickstol Consulting is a dear friend and is so brilliant and great at what she does. I will make sure that she is linked. But, I mean, what a. What a testimony, like, chills that she. That she gave. She did that back. Yeah, that is. That is incredible.
[01:12:46] Speaker B: Honestly.
[01:12:46] Speaker A: We love you.
[01:12:47] Speaker B: She gave me. She gave me my relationship back, and she gave me my, like, motherhood back. And I will cry if I talk about it anymore. So I just want to say that to Brooke and anybody who's considering working with her, there is no better decision that you can make.
[01:13:02] Speaker C: Love that.
[01:13:04] Speaker A: Okay, what does sustainable growth look like to you now? Like, what is, what is next steps?
[01:13:10] Speaker B: Okay, next steps are.
I need to go back to the refining of the processes. So yes, we did our SOPs with Brooke, we did all of that, but now I want to make sure. How is the Muskoka team, who's working on different types of projects in the Toronto team, making sure that everybody has what they need kind of across the board? So it's a little bit of, of that. And then I would say, how do I kind of pull myself out of these like little, little basecamp notifications and like, that kind of thing? Because I'm like, still deep into, into that kind of stuff and everybody still wants my sign off and my approval on things. So I think the next step is kind of making sure that the seniors know and anybody, at least our studio manager knows, like, like, you can make this decision and involve me if and when type thing. So that's probably it.
[01:13:58] Speaker A: Okay, what does the next phase look like? Any top secret projects, expansions, collaborations. And I know there's top secret stuff we cannot talk about, but what are you allowed to share?
[01:14:12] Speaker B: Okay, the top secret, yes, we cannot. But what I am allowed to share, which I is like a bucket list thing for me. And I'm so excited.
We, my team, most of my team and I are going to Italy in April. We are going to a quarry in Verona to go and look at how marble is extracted from these quarries. And then I get to have a collaboration with the slab gallery that we work with to develop.
So they do like different water jet textures on different slabs. And so I get to pick a slab and pick the water jet texture. And it's going to be the Paris collection, which I'm like, this is so cool. But, but, you know, just to be able to have that experience and, and take my team and it's, it's just insane for me. And it's also lining up with Salone in Milan. So we will be at Salone for a few days as well, during that. So that is something that I'm like.
And then my dream, I'm going to put it out there. But I really want to do a lighting collaboration. My, my ultimate goal would be with Huey Lightshot.
So Huey, if you're listening there, but you hit a girl up. But I, I would love to do a lighting collaboration. I think that'd be Very cool.
[01:15:19] Speaker A: All right, Manifesting.
If you could give one piece of advice to a designer who is currently in year one, year two, they can be in year 20, but they're hoping for that zero to 60 moment, what would you say it is?
[01:15:40] Speaker B: I think the biggest thing is, like, figure out the why behind it. And hopefully that's not cliche to say, but just like, for example, you know, I. I always wanted my Instagram followers to be high. I wanted to grow my Instagram and I wanted to have these followers and because I felt that there was a correlation between cachet and being a respected designer and number.
And then I got all these followers and it didn't really do anything. Like, it's cool. And I do think that people look on my profile and they're like, oh, she's got a lot of followers.
[01:16:14] Speaker A: So that's great.
[01:16:15] Speaker B: But if you want this, your 60 trajectory, like, why? What is it that you're looking to accomplish and hone in on the ways that you can get there? And if you don't know how to get there, your podcast is a fantastic resource for figuring that out. And the community, the design community is so much more open, I find now than they were. And I think just ultimately figure out what your goals are. Set those 1, 3, 5 year goals, write them down. Because, man, when you look back and you see that you actually did accomplish your goals, that is a very, very rewarding feeling.
But really, like, get to the root of, of the why is probably my biggest thing.
[01:16:58] Speaker A: That is one of my favorite pieces of content you've ever put out there. Actually, Paris year 2024, we accomplished our goals.
Video, you shared. These were the goals. And you're like, boom, boom, boom. And to be able to actually cross it off is so amazing.
[01:17:15] Speaker B: It's crazy. It's crazy. And one other thing I will say again, my little tidbit from design camp. Amber Lewis was one of the keynotes while we were there. And she said when she was up on stage talking, that comparison is the thief of joy. And that has resonated with me ever since. Do not worry about what anybody else is doing.
Put your head down, do good work, be yourself. Because again, cliche, but, like, there is no other you. And so that is how I think people will make their mark as opposed to trying to. To be somebody else and stop worrying about what other people are doing.
[01:17:50] Speaker A: Paris, this has been so fun. Thank you so much.
I know that you were really excited when I asked you to be on the show.
I was really excited to invite you on the show, but this was so clear, so transparent. And I really appreciate you taking the time to spell out exactly how you got here in this short amount of time. And we can't wait to see what comes next for you.
[01:18:13] Speaker B: You're amazing. Thank you for having me. This is how I feel like I've made it to the big leagues.
[01:18:17] Speaker A: You're there, girl. You're best.
Yep. You're batting.300 for sure.
[01:18:22] Speaker B: Thank you.
[01:18:22] Speaker A: All right, we'll talk soon. Okay, bye.
[01:18:26] Speaker C: For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more, don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes or at patreon.com forward/the interior collective. Thank you so, so much for tuning in to this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations.
A big, huge thank you to our production team at IDCO Studio and Quinn Maid. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and review use means so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible.
Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living.
[01:19:26] Speaker A: A very special thanks to our presenting sponsor, Leloy, the makers of beautifully crafted rugs, pillows and wall art, and to our episode sponsor and seasoned partner, Materia, the design platform, helping interior designers source materials, manage specifications and streamline project workflows.
