[00:00:13] Speaker B: Welcome to the Interior Collective, the podcast where we dive into the business of interior design. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey, and today I'm thrilled to welcome back Marie Flanagan, the visionary behind Marie Flanagan Interiors. With her background as a classically trained architect, Marie's approach marries architecture and interiors in a way that brings timeless elegance and innovation to every project. From the way her team incorporates rich texture, sophisticated color palettes, and striking plays of light, it's no wonder MFI has been celebrated in top publications like Architectural Digest, Elle Decor, and Vogue. If you haven't heard our first episode with Marie Flanagan, you'll definitely want to skip all the way back to the very first episode, Season one Episode one as Marie broke down her expertise in growing a team. I've had the pleasure of working with Marie alongside her team while filming her project installs and I've honestly never been more impressed by a team's synergy, relaxed atmosphere and dedication to getting it done at an extraordinary level. Marie Flanagan is the most humble, easygoing, hard working business person I've ever worked with, and to this day I can't think of a woman I respect and admire more than her, both personally and professionally. Truly, it's an immense honor to have her back. Today we're delving into our most requested topic of the season, creating custom pieces. We'll talk with Marie about how she designs, prices and manages custom elements, everything from upholstered furniture to built in cabinetry and bespoke dairy brie. We'll uncover her process for finding the right workrooms and trades, what she provides them to bring her visions to life, and how she keeps projects on track from concept through installation. Plus, we'll discuss what happens when custom pieces don't go exactly as planned and Marie's strategies for keeping clients happy and her standards high. We'll have both Marie's books linked in today's show notes as well as that first interview with her. Remember, you can always join us on Patreon for show notes, bonus materials and ongoing conversations aside this and every episode of the Interior Collective, we are so excited to invite you to dive deeper into the Interior Collective. Podcast Episodes now on Patreon unlock access to in depth analysis, helpful downloads and worksheets created with each podcast episode. Subscribers gain behind the scenes access to additional resources like examples and screenshots of guest spreadsheets, construction documents, and so much more. Your subscription also gets you immediate access to our private community of interior designers and our team of industry experts ready to answer your questions. Subscribe
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Hello Marie, and welcome back to the Interior Collective. I can't believe I get to have you on the show for a second time.
[00:03:09] Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me. I cannot believe it's been two years. How did that time go by?
[00:03:15] Speaker B: I, when I obviously I knew that we had done this before, but when I looked back at it, you were my first episode ever. We launched with you and I still can't believe you said yes. I love that it's still our most downloaded episode ever and a lot has happened since that episode. You released another book, the Perfect Room. You launched an incredible e commerce platform and you have numerous product collections through super thoughtful collaborations. In a quick Cliff Notes version, can you catch us up on the type of types of projects you're working on now? What your role at the company is? Has it shifted at all? And what the team kind of looks like, like, just, just spill everything that you've done in the last two and a half years. You have five seconds.
[00:04:03] Speaker A: Amazing. Well, I have a team of 19 incredible women and we do projects all over the country and we're currently Florida, New York, Jackson, California, and of course our home state of Texas.
And you know, we really just do high end residential homes mostly from the ground up. My background's architecture, so we've always had a really strong architectural focus to the work that we do. A lot of custom focus, which I know we're talking about today. But beyond that, I've gotten a lot into product design and I'm working on various collections for, for product development, for Visual Comfort, for Annie Selkie Rugs USA and several others, which I'd love to do. And then beyond that, yes, we just launched our second book, which is an incredible collection of the work that we've been working on for the past four years since our last book. And it's called the Perfect Room and it dissects each. Instead of taking you project by project, it actually dissects each room as a whole and takes you through all of our kitchens, all of our bathrooms, and what to consider when creating the perf space for each of those components of a home.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: So excited. The book is stunning. It's so beautiful. And I actually really, really, really enjoyed how it is broken up a little differently than the previous book. And honestly, how many project books are put together by, you know, per project? And it actually was much more of a tool and a guide than just a portfolio of work. So fabulous as always. It was wonderful to flip through and it constantly lives. I actually have four copies. Like that's the level of fan girl I am. I have two at the office and two at home. I need it available at all times.
[00:05:51] Speaker A: Well, and I have to just give a five second shout out to you. Since the last two and a half years we've been on this podcast, I've just been so impressed with all that you've accomplished. You're such a mover and a shaker, taking on incredible scaled projects like your design camp branding. I know you've done a lot of video work for us, so it's been great to just get to know you and I'm just so impressed with your. Your business mind and your get it done attitude. So thanks for having me on again.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: Thanks, Ray. It is kind of wild. Like we, we know each other pretty well now that we've gotten to work together. But that first interview, I was so nervous being the first episode and also it being you, I was definitely not chill. Oh, thank you. Thank you for your kind words. But like we said, this isn't our first episode. I'd love to dig right into the actual topic. You can go back to episode one, season one to get more on Marie's background, but I really want to dig into creating custom pieces because it's our most requested topic for this fifth season. So Marie, can you start by sharing if you had to guess what percentage of your projects typically include custom pieces and for the sake of simplicity, let's just assume we're talking like furnishings. Not obviously your homes are totally custom, but let's talk about the items you're putting into a home.
[00:07:09] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. And I would say of custom pieces we're putting into a home, I would say 95% to a hundred percent of projects include a custom piece of upholstery, whether it's a case, good. A custom metal shelf. We're working with customers, fabricators to create unique pieces for pretty much every single project. The only projects I would say don't include that are just small add on projects that past clients come and ask us for.
[00:07:40] Speaker B: Now, within a single project, would you say it's like 50% sourced from vendors, 50% custom? Is it closer to 70% custom? What's kind of a sweet spot of like how do you really execute a beautiful project that feels super bespoke and unique but also is not as extremely labor intensive because there are beautiful vendor options out there?
[00:08:04] Speaker A: Oh, a hundred percent. And that's a great question. I would say every job is different, but I would say more often than not, it's about 60 vendor and the rest custom.
[00:08:15] Speaker B: Okay, great. That's super helpful to know. Thank you. What types of custom pieces do you feel 10. That your team tends to create the most frequently. And how do you determine which pieces are going to make the biggest impact in this space?
[00:08:30] Speaker A: We typically start custom pieces. I would say we typically try to spend a lot of energy, effort, and budget toward the pieces that you're going to live touching. The sofas, the beds, the things that really that you're going to experience. And so much of customizing isn't just for the look, but it's also for the functionality. And so I would say we spend a lot of our focus there, which include, you know, custom sofas, furniture. Then we get into millwork and cabinetry, custom doors, custom vanities. Sometimes we do the whole kitchen island as a custom piece. And then we get into kind of smaller things that we like to customize. For example, like a lampshade. We might want to put a specialty fabric on, you know, even architectural items. Like, you know, if the builder doesn't have certain resources, we'll come in and do, like, the corbels on an archway or we'll do the skylight done in leaded glass, whatever it is. We've kind of developed the relationships over the years to bring incredible, incredible artisans and craftsmen to the table.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: We'll get into real specifics with working with your craftspeople and your workrooms as well. But I'm just curious, do you feel like being in as large of a city as Houston makes it easier to have those different tradespeople at your fingertips or because you're doing projects all over, Sometimes you're having to find someone completely new, or do you have kind of like a core group that you use locally and then everything gets shipped out?
Really?
[00:10:05] Speaker A: All of the above. We're so lucky to be based in Houston. We have lower costs of living here. You know, we do a lot of work in vacation areas or, like, really dreamy, hard to get to remote areas. And just practically speaking, that drives up costs. So we have access to incredible artisans. Yes, we're in a big city, so we have more resources because. Because of that. But I would say we, over the years, we have tried to source locally, and in the end, we have found that taking our own people with us is most of the time, the way to go. And that includes getting a lot of custom pieces done here in Houston and then shipping Them at install. It includes taking our drapery people all over the country. And there's something to be said by, for designers today, limiting the number of people that they work with, because we really try to do that. Of course, we always pick what's best for the design and we are constantly sourcing new vendors. But when it comes to your team, your, your exterior team outside of your office, because I consider my workrooms part of my team, it's really important to be a good partner to them and, you know, build really strong relationships. And going back to your question, we're so lucky to be in Houston and have had almost, you know, a decade and a half with some of these vendors.
[00:11:32] Speaker B: I have so many questions about the vendors and I know I need to like, keep us going down the road here, but. Okay, for instance, you bring the drapery people in and let's talk about your Jackson project. Does that all just get build back to the client or does that get wrapped up into the line item of that particular of the window treatments, for example? Like, I, I completely comprehend why that makes sense to do it. But you're like, how do you get someone to say yes, absolutely.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: Well, I believe in very open book pricing. I am very upfront with my clients about how pricing works. And you know, I try to be a really reasonable team member to my client as well and just be very open book with, let's price it with the person in Jackson Hole and let's price it with the person in Houston. Nine times outta ten. Houston's cheaper and you slap on a $5,000 travel and it' installation fee. And sometimes we're still cheaper. And when it's equal, I'll always say go with our people because they're incentivized to get the job done correctly because they want to continue our business. And that goes back to selecting your exterior team and only working with a certain number of people because then a lot of your revenue goes to that person. And you guys are obviously incentivized in the right direction in the same way.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: Yeah. You have brand loyalty amongst your colleagues. Okay, can you clarify a little bit about what you consider the difference between like, custom and I've heard other guests talk about semi custom and kind of what the difference is. And to me, a custom piece would be like, oh, we, you know, we picked our own upholstery, we added it. You gave the lampshade example. But I do think that there is a difference between having something upholstered and having a whole piece designed by your team from scratch. Can you break that down a little?
[00:13:22] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. I mean, I think you did a great job in explaining it. So often we will order a chair, for example, that only comes in three fabrics. We'll just pick the least expensive fabric, and then we'll take it to our workroom and we'll upholster it. And there's so many different levels in between. For example, sometimes we call it Frankensteining. Like, we will take a chair, we'll completely redo the arm, we'll add a skirt. So we'll do more than just reupholster it, but we'll almost reimagine it. And often that happens with clients existing pieces where we try to really kind of bring it to life in a new way. And then there's obviously totally custom where we just come up with something in our mind. Or sometimes we'll be, let's say, inspired by an antique chair and say, you know, I want to turn this into a sofa, but I want to add a leg, add nail heads, do whatever. But it. When you have good relationships with incredible custom vendors, the sky's the limit on what can inspire you.
[00:14:22] Speaker B: I am curious about expanding on what you just said as far as picking something from a vendor, getting the cheapest fabric on it, and you plan to reupholster it. Have you found that to be the most efficient way? Because then your workroom, who you trust, and you notice beautiful upholstery, is more effective than potentially reaching out to said vendor and saying, hey, can we ship our fabric to you to do a com option directly from said vendor and have it delivered to you, ready to go?
[00:14:52] Speaker A: I think it depends on how much we trust the vendor and how much we trust their quality. Like, for example, someone like Ali Industries, we know it's incredible quality. We know it's going to be great. So we would always co m that and ship our fabric directly to the vendor. If it's something that we just found from a vendor we've never heard of, sometimes we'll bring it in. You know, that happens all the time on first divs. Like, for example, if it's an antique piece that we're not sure what kind of quality it's in, we'll bring it. We will ship it directly to our workroom. They're going to clean it up. They're going to make sure there's no cobwebs, fix the stain, fix the nicks, and sometimes rebuild it from the inside. And, you know, if there's hidden costs in there that we just kind of, again, keep the conversation open with our clients, hey, we got this in. They need to redo all the springs and the hand ties and all of that. It's going to be an additional cost. What do you think? Usually they want to move forward.
[00:15:47] Speaker B: So go back and listen to episode one, because Marie really breaks down how her teams are set up, and I just respect it so immensely. Biggest thing is she doesn't have lead designers. She has designers 1, 2. And I did notice on your website there are designers at level three now, which I think is new since we've chatted last. So talk to me about your designers 1, 2, and 3 that are assigned on a project and they are looking to create something absolutely from scratch. What does that design process look like? And I'd love to know where you, as face of the brand creative director comes in and how much involvement you have in executing that.
[00:16:27] Speaker A: Yeah, and even today, our structure has evolved quite a bit. Right now we kind of work in teams, or some people might call them studios. And we've got team leads who are typically designers who have been with me, you know, five, six years, and they're mentoring and leading the newer designers on their team. And the designers on their team are range from every level. And within all of those designers are project leads, and those are the people in charge of the project. I serve as the creative director on all projects, and depending on the designer's experience, experience, I take more of a lead on each project or less of one. You know, my designers who have been with me for. I've got one who's been here for nine years, and I know, you know, we can read each other's minds. So I'm much less involved on her projects. But whoever's working on the job, they will come up with a concept, ideate what that could be, how it fits in the room, how it functions in the space, how it meets the client's goals and needs. And then there'll be several concepts developed with the client, lots of conversations, making sure they like the overall general direction.
And then from there, basically what we do is once we kind of get the go ahead on price and idea, we develop internal drawings, internal shop drawings, where we're working mostly in CAD and we're developing things down to every dimension about it. You know, depending on the piece, we can be more specific about every single detail. And also the vendor, a lot of vendors can read our minds at this stage. So we try to be really efficient about it while providing all the details necessary. So we'll do internal drawings and then from There we have what's called, like, an ordering meeting, where once we decide we're ordering, we all sit down together, and I'm in all those meetings, and we go through piece by piece. And because when you're. As most of your listeners, I'm sure a lot of them are interior designers, as everyone knows, we are catching every ball when it comes to a project. We're helping with the landscaping. Sometimes we're helping with, you know, the architect, the interior architecture, and all the. All the questions. So sometimes things can get missed. So we create internal checks and balances when it comes to making sure every piece is perfection and lives up to the quality that we stand behind. And one of those ways is that we do an internal ordering meeting for every single project. And it can be very tedious, and it can be five hours, sometimes six hours long, depending on the size of the job. But it's so important. And what we do is we basically sit around the table and we've got the project lead, the logistics lead, me and typically everyone else who's on that design team who's helping with the job, and we go piece by piece. And the logistics person's calling out the product, the name of it. I'm typically checking the dimensions, checking the size. We've got somebody holding up the finish so everybody could see what the finish is. And, you know, again, it's a very tedious process, but we've probably saved thousands of dollars in the years just making sure things are correct and they are perfect and they're as perfect as they can be. We're checking them in the drawings anyway. I'm going on about that, but to me, it's such an important part of the custom process to make sure it's right and not depending on your vendors to catch those things. Because as much as you want good partners for you, you want to be that good partner for them. So before we give them the headache, we make sure we have thought every piece through, and we've seen it in the space digitally, and we've seen it from floor plan, from elevation. We've checked the size, we've checked the finish. We all agree the logistics. That gives the logistics person the chance to see it as well. So once they take the ball and run with it, you know, they don't. They don't know that it's supposed to be yellow and not pink. So when it comes into the warehouse, you know, they're at least familiar enough that they can spot red flags. So it's not some big surprise. On install Day.
So from there, we get into the vendor's process. I don't know how much you want.
[00:20:33] Speaker B: To talk about that, but, I mean, I just want you to keep going. I'm like, don't interrupt. Let her just keep going. One thing you mentioned that I thought was interesting was that y'all do your concept drawings and then you do your own internal shop drawings. And historically speaking, I have heard that people do their drawings, send it to the workroom, and they require shop drawings from the workroom. Do you still get an iteration of shop drawings from those vendors? Or your team is so technically skilled that your shop drawings are what they are expected to work off of and you are not receiving something back from them. Let's say if, like, there's some sort of limitation or slight change that has to happen just based off of what can physically be created with a certain.
[00:21:22] Speaker A: Tool or whatever, it's definitely a mixture of both. For our upholstery room, we do not require shop drawings back, but for custom cabinetry, always. Custom light fixtures, always.
If a certain piece is of a certain price, always. I mean, you can't have too many drawings, but I mean, sometimes you can, but no, it's. It's. Again, it kind of always goes back to efficiency and working with people you trust.
[00:21:51] Speaker B: Okay. And then also interesting. So you have your logistics lead. Is there a specific logistically to each team or as you called it, studio within the company? Or is there one that's handling all of the numerous studios slash teams within Murray Flanagan, we have, at this point.
[00:22:13] Speaker A: We have three logistics team members, two leads, and one assistant. And they get assigned a job based on their schedule. So, you know, as you know, it kind of ebbs and flows on when projects hit and how intensive some projects become and how relaxed some projects become. It's based on who can take it when. And those. Those logistics team members get involved pretty close to the beginning, especially nowadays and especially as we're doing, you know. You know, you kind of mentioned this before, but really, custom homes are one big custom job. You know, it's one. And the sooner the logistics team member can be on site, understand the space, understand what the back kitchen is and how it looks, the easier the problem solving becomes. And one of the biggest custom items that we haven't touched on yet that is taking over the design industry is drapery, custom drapery. And what I mean by taking over the design industry is that now versus five years ago, the amount of motorization and customizing and building in the drapery and all of the Custom work that goes into that. We're doing that so much more on the front end of a project than we ever did 10 years ago, for sure. And there's so much legwork that has to be done with the architect to make sure that that is seamless. Because the most effortless final product required weeks and weeks of work on the front end, especially building out walls, building in ceiling pockets, building in the motorization track, and doing all of the work that takes to get that done. We try to get the logistics person involved in that sooner rather than later.
[00:23:53] Speaker B: So that logistics person who's sitting in that ordering meeting, you have your design team there, and is that meeting really just the design team going through the whole list and then your logistics person then takes it and places the orders, or are you literally all on speakerphone as orders are being placed during that meeting?
[00:24:11] Speaker A: No, no, no, no. Orders are placed during that meeting. It's really the kickoff that gives the project from the design department to the logistics department. At that point, they're already in the project because they help make all pricing happen. And we are not doing the ordering meeting until basically we have the deposit check. But, yes, from there, then they know what orders to place. They know what the priority items are, because we're talking about the client really needs this rug by this date. Let's go ahead and place that order first. And that is an important part of it. And, you know, speaking of processes with custom vendors, from there are like one of our systems that we do from that ordering meeting. The project lead and the logistics lead go and have a ordering meeting at. At the vendor shop. So, for example, our upholstery room, like I said, it's got, you know, 30% of the upholstery on every project, let's say. So then they'll have our drawings, our shop drawings, our mockups, our fabrics, and then they will basically go do the exact same meeting at the upholstery workroom with the po. So it's a lot of tedious details, but it makes sure the product is perfect.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: I really love this concept of doing one meeting all together. And obviously someone who doesn't have a team of. I'm sorry, I think you said 19.
[00:25:30] Speaker A: 16.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: 19.
[00:25:31] Speaker A: Yeah, we're about at 19 now.
[00:25:32] Speaker B: 19 now. To have, like, everybody who's working on the project there. So everybody kind of gets eyeballs on everything what is provided to the logistics person before they get to that meeting. Do you guys have, like, an internal purchase order form that you are using that's getting to them? Or when they sit down at this meeting, is this the first time that they're actually saying, okay, I know that Sally sue wants 12 of these chairs and they have all the documentation and we're really just reaffirming or confirming what your logistics person received.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a mixture. There's typically some sort of upholstery lookbook. There's typically like a construction item lookbook and that sometimes has very detailed drawings. Most of the time it doesn't. Because again, going back to efficiency, if the client's going to nix it because of cost or look, I don't want to spend a lot of their hours creating really detailed shop drawings. So typically it's a very high level idea of what it is. And then in the ordering meeting, we are finalizing overall dimensions, for example, and then saying, okay, from here we need X designer to produce a very detailed shop drawing because this is a very complicated piece, or, hey, let's just hash this out with our team at the workroom during that ordering meeting. And they're going to know what we want, you know, just by the picture. So it's really kind of a judgment call based on experience.
[00:26:55] Speaker B: Got it. And in this ordering meeting, are you guys also going over things that are just coming from vendors or is the order meeting specifically just for custom pieces?
[00:27:07] Speaker A: No, it's every single thing we're ordering in the entire job.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: Like even accessories, to the point of.
[00:27:13] Speaker A: The idea of the accessories. I mean, we also try to stage out storage and we don't want accessories sitting in storage and the client paying for that for 12 months. So we will talk about budget for accessories and if there's specific accessories we have gotten approved at that time, which almost never happens. We will discuss that or we'll discuss, oh, we saved money here. We'll ask the client if we can use that for accessories, whatever it is. But it's pretty much everything else.
[00:27:41] Speaker B: I am curious, what specific elements or qualities are you making sure your team prioritizes when conceptualizing a custom piece? And to simplify that question, let's just talk about upholstery, because I do feel like upholstery, if someone is looking to get their feet wet and starting to do more custom upholstery is probably where they're going to start. And it's kind of where you can see the biggest bang for your buck because you have limitless options on your upholstery covering, fabric options. So what are some tips you have for people so that they know when they're working with the workroom, like, hey, you gotta make sure you're doing this, this and this and that. They can produce X, Y and Z. Gosh.
[00:28:20] Speaker A: I mean, I would say you're really looking for a team that is really good with problem solving.
You want somebody who understands the big picture, that, you know, you're all working toward getting the client what they need. I like to tell my design team, focus on design first. Let's come up with the best, coolest, new, innovative idea for this piece. What is that then? You know, once you've dreamt big, then the age old, you know, quality time and price take over. And from there, you know, half our job is just problem solving. And you know, how can we bring this to life in a different way? So once we have the idea and we've gotten a, let's say it's price, the price is too high. Well, from then we can dissect a new way to bring it to life. Whether it's using a different vendor, whether it's, you know, we just, for example, last week had an incredible reclaimed vanity that we were going to do in this farmhouse out in Roundtalk and it ended up being too expensive to do it that way for a client. So instead Marburger Farm was open in Round Top last week. So we went and found one that was in the price that they wanted. But now we're going to customize it to be a sink and a vanity. So it goes back to that level of customization. But anyway, you're looking for people who are going to problem solve with you, who are going to prioritize your clients needs and who again understand the big picture of what you guys are all trying to accomplish.
[00:29:52] Speaker B: Let's talk specifically about either sofas or chairs. What are things that the caliber of your clients are looking for in a custom sofa as far as construction goes, like, you know, foam versus down and all of the things that go into those pieces. I'm just curious as to someone who's looking to like get to do more custom. What are the things that they can sell their client on as to like why going custom is going to be more beneficial and cost effective for them in the long run because of its longevity?
[00:30:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say sometimes clients come with a knowledge of springs and hand ties and foam and feather and all of that. And that's very important. I would say a lot of times when people are using a designer that is kind of a level of expectation that's almost basic. But from there I would say clients more often are asking for comfort and they want to sit in things. And in our digital world, everything online, which we do so much online, majority of what we do online, it's important to give people that experience. And what I have found is not only is it important, we do what's called. We call it a sitting. And instead of a fitting, we do a sitting. And for, you know, sofas and chairs, we ended up. We ended up having the clients come in often at the muslin stage, when it's just covered in muslin, to go sit in the piece to experience it. Especially if this is like a workhorse piece for them. This is the sofa they're going to watch TV in. And at that point, it's a really great time for us to be like, okay, this client is six and a half feet tall. He needs something deeper or not. Or this is a more conversational sofa, not a TV watching sofa. So it needs to be more upright. So we go through that process with them and, you know, make sure it's right. But what I have found is that just getting clients to the workroom, it is so much fun for them to see these things coming to life. And what's every day for us designers always going in these places and always, you know, working with fabrics and seeing the craftsmen. Think of it like a field trip. And it is. I. I have sold more people on custom furnishings just by taking them on the experience of going to see some of this happen. And I mean, it really is when you step back and you think, wow, I mean, this is so fun. This is so imaginative, creative. These artisans are so talented, and they just love it, and they're so excited to get to you. Well, and so often clients will laugh because they'll see the name of our upholstery company on so many different items, like, who is this guy? Why. Why is he getting all of our business? And then once I take them to see it, they understand and they see how much fun it is to just create, and then their mind gets going, and then they become more part of the design process, which is really fun for them to be a part of designing their own home.
[00:32:42] Speaker B: That was actually my next question, because I feel like there is a variety of opinions from designers as to how fun it is to have your client very involved in the creative process. And I love your attitude towards it, and I would love to expand on that to maybe shift some other people's mindset that letting your clients be involved with the creative can result in a happier outcome in the long run. So how much influence do you Allow clients to have in the design process of custom elements. And I'm also really curious about your specific clientele, which is the most elite, fabulous. Your projects are breathtaking and you get to do really, really cool stuff. So for people who would love to get to do Marie Flanagan caliber type project, it's helpful to know like, hey, Marie does let them sit there and pick out colors and look at all the trims. Or Marie's like, no, we have this all under control. We're going to present you two options and you get to pick from two options.
[00:33:43] Speaker A: That's a great question. And you know, every client is so different. But as far as my ethos as a designer and our office, we are extremely collaborative with our clients and I believe in allowing them to influence the beauty of what we do and trying to see the home through their eyes and bring their version of beauty to life. And I would say a compliment I have received several times from our workroom. Our custom workroom is we never see the same piece come out of your office where other designers, it's like the same thing churned out the same chair, the same fabric, all the things. If you allow yourself to be open minded to your client's vision, it gives you the opportunity to become a new designer in a new way. Now, within that idea, there's parameters and there's just practicality of getting a job done. Different clients obviously want a say in different parts of the job. Some want to be way involved, some don't. And we try to just set up systems around that that allow them the chance to be involved.
But then once we kind of get the overall design idea going, then we take the ball and we run with it from there. Now, when they come to the sitting, if they have an idea of a trim or a nail head. Absolutely. I mean like, let's, let's do it. Let's let them be involved and be, you know, play a hand in the creative process. But I do think you become a better designer when you are more open minded to the ideas of others. And that goes within your office too. You know, I kind of touched on before I creative direct my jobs that come out of the office. But you know, anyone sitting at our conference table might have the best idea, and it's not always me. And I think you're a better leader and a better designer of a design firm when you come to that understanding and when everyone feels comfortable to weigh in on what is the best idea here, then you have an entire office of incredible people. Especially if you're Surrounding yourself by. With hiring amazing talent, you know, then sky's the limit. And the collaborative process really just multiplies what you're doing and multiplies the creativity that comes out of the firm.
[00:36:04] Speaker B: I love hearing you talk about your team. It's just the way you've built your business is. Is so inspiring to me as a business owner. But I do want to back up a little bit to the idea of going to your sitting. You have the client in the workroom, and they start to ideate on something that's already muslin covered.
Totally get the nail head, the trim. That makes sense. But what if suddenly they want a wing back and there was definitely no wing back on that? And it would. It would be re. Maybe not starting from scratch every single time, but it would be a reconfiguring of the skeletal system of the piece at that point. How do you herd or guide your client to remember that initial approved vision while allowing them to feel like they really contributed?
[00:36:55] Speaker A: Absolutely. And that. That is tough. That is always tough. And I think it is your job as the designer to kind of set some expectations and some parameters around that. And I think it's, what is the rule versus what is the one off? I think it's important if a client sees something that they just hate to go with it, and, oh, you want a wing back instead? Let's make that happen. That goes back to finding vendors who get the big picture. My upholstery room would do it. No questions asked, no complaining, nothing. But if that becomes the rule and you're constantly changing everything, that goes back to being a bad partner to your vendor. You're not setting expectations well from the beginning. You're not finding out what the client really wants. Maybe the client's too afraid to give you their opinion until they see it and then they start panicking. So there's a lot of checks and balances along the way that we try to hit. So that doesn't happen now. Does it still happen? Absolutely. And, you know, and sometimes, you know, especially when you're doing these huge jobs, sometimes I'll eat the bill to get it done to the way the client wants. And, you know, always keeping in mind that sets a bigger. Like you might be out whatever thousand dollars, but what it says to your client about what you're going to stand behind and what you believe in, and, you know, sometimes that pays back in dividends. For example, we just had these bar stools. We installed them in Jackson Hole, and they were beautiful, and they were stunning. But the Client was very OCD with cleanliness. And the bar stools, they kind of as people sat in them, you could see the lines or like their kids would scratch them or sometimes some stains happen. Well, I just had them reupholstered in like a, you know, like a ship grade leather that just you can't do anything to. I had them reupholstered, no charges, you know, no questions asked because they were such an incredible client and because we wanted to send the message of, look, we knew you, we knew you were very, you know, you want a perfect piece at all times. And she doesn't want to worry about her kids sitting on them. So, you know, I think there's always a balance and having a good judgment call about that and knowing when a client is just going off the rails of changing, then you might not want to schedule the sitting. You know, I think like if somebody just goes off the rails with changing and it is not to the better end result for them, I think then, you know, you kind of know each, you get to know each client and try to take them on a journey that's going to give them the best end product.
[00:39:23] Speaker B: Last question on sitting before I let you move on. Do you have or again, for someone who's getting into custom homes, custom projects and getting to use more custom pieces, do you recommend letting your client come and do the sitting for literally everything that's happening at the workroom? Or it's like you said, the couches, maybe if there's an office chair, something that's getting used a lot more or are you like, let's go ahead and check out this upholstered ottoman and then let's also check all of the bar stools. Like how much is getting the, the stamp of approval from the client versus like how, how annoying is it to the workroom, to you, to the team and how much is it?
[00:40:05] Speaker A: Like.
[00:40:05] Speaker B: No, it saves our butt a lot.
[00:40:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say it, it's. Well, first of all, we, we do that for clients who really want it. We don't do it for every single client. Some clients we've done three or four homes for, so they know we know we know what they like, so we just go with that. So it depends. But for a very particular client who's anxious and nervous, it absolutely, we'll save our butt. And it gives them the sense of peace and calm that they're not just waiting for the grand reveal. It makes the reveal more enjoyable for them. And oftentimes it's just the upholstery pieces we're typically not going to see like a case piece. But what's so fun is more often than not some of their case pieces are being made while we're at the sitting. So we will, we will take them on a little tour while we're there to just go see things being made and oh, hey, here's your console for the hallway. And they're like, oh, my gosh, wow. I didn't expect it to have such carving, whatever. Because, you know, there's so much about our concepts. We talk about this internally a lot. There's so much about our concepts that help us design rooms, but oftentimes they hurt us with clients as far as being able to see the quality of some of these pieces when they're just kind of collaged together on a, you know, Photoshop board. So it can really help us. And it gets us a lot of buy in of from the client on these custom pieces because they see how beautiful the craftsmanship is.
[00:41:28] Speaker B: Interesting that you said it gets you a lot of buy in because I just want to clarify, someone has signed off and paid the deposit on these pieces before. It's to the point where you could go for a sip test. Is that correct?
[00:41:38] Speaker A: That is right, yes.
[00:41:39] Speaker B: Okay, so it's a buy in conceptually of the overall project, the overall vision. I just want to make sure people know that, like they are not fronting this cost. Doing a sit test and then getting paid.
[00:41:50] Speaker A: No, absolutely. Never. Never. Okay, but if, if, if the person is nervous about it, go do a tour of the vendor before you get the money. And that could create buy in. And we've definitely done that. I mean, we have this incredible place here in Houston called Chateau de Maine. And it's really just a incredible warehouse and yard of all these reclaimed artifacts from Europe all over the place. And this is a great, this is actually a great example. This just happened two days ago. We had this European, incredible carved marble sink that was in a concept board and we were going to make it custom, use it to make a custom sink in a powder room. And it was on the custom, on the concept board. And the clients were just like, ah, it's okay, whatever. So we, not for the sake of the sink, but just because we wanted to use a lot of the material, building materials at this vendor's place. We just took them on a tour and we just went and walked around. Well, the sink happened to be there and when it stopped them in their tracks when they saw it, we're like, oh, yeah, that's the one. For their concept board and they're like, oh yeah, I basically just want to live here and use all these items. We're like, great, that's awesome. And that's major buy in because you know those items aren't inexpensive.
[00:43:05] Speaker B: Right, right, of course. Okay. I have a little segment I want to do rapid fire for. As before, we move on to more nitty gritty things. For someone who is just starting to look for a workroom or knock on wood, heaven forbid you needed to find a new work, where would you start? Would it be asking other designers? It's like, how do you start to find that? Especially for someone who's maybe not in a big city, where do those relationships begin?
[00:43:36] Speaker A: I would absolutely start by asking other designers. And we do that when we're working in new cities. And let's say we like, for example, we're doing something in Alice beach and we asked a designer we know in the area who they like to use for draperies there. And so we're working with them. I like to ask builders, I like to ask warehouses who work with designers. You know, people, especially in smaller cities, people know the main players in town. So we do start there. We start by visiting their, their showrooms, their workrooms, whatever they have. And if you are live in a small town, I would go to your nearest large city and just take a day touring different vendors. Look for people who are eager to work with you because if they're not eager on the sales side, they're definitely not going to be eager to fix problems.
And so, you know, sometimes it's not if you're a just getting started, sometimes it's not the big player you want to work with. You know, like for example, our, our workroom won't even take on smaller designers.
But you don't necessarily want that because you're like the small fish. Give someone a chance who does incredible work and grow together and that's a great way of establishing lifelong loyalty with somebody. You know. Don't take a chance on somebody who you know is showing the red flags and like red flags. I would, you know, look for, you know, people who are having attention to detail. You go and you see the quality of the work and it's up to your standards. People who are able to communicate. Like I would start a conversation with them after that visit and see how responsive they are. See what kind of questions they ask. Ask for certain pricing. Ask for example, pricing of items that they've done. You know, just like reliability. If you can get any kind of referral from somebody who's used to using them. That always speaks volumes. And, you know, I would start with a small project, like, for example, just do one chair with them and see that way you can see their adaptability, you can experience their problem solving skills, and you can you slowly start to grow the work you do with them. We actually do that all the time. Especially if somebody we're working with is too busy. We'll get a referral from a friend designer. And, you know, for example, our workroom was too busy to take on this huge lacquered dining room table. So one of our designers had worked with somebody else in town who was a smaller operation, and we, you know, made it happen with them. And now we've got a great relationship with somebody new who can do beautiful lacquered things. So, you know, I like to stick with my key people while being open minded to kind of finding new and growing talent around me.
[00:46:17] Speaker B: I feel like this has changed a lot. I feel like just between design camp and our podcast, like, this is part of my mission in creating this community within the industry. But I have heard people say, I will not give out my workroom. Like, I will not tell other people. I don't want them to get too busy. That's proprietary. For whatever reason, it's not something they're willing to share. Do you have any advice on what you can potentially offer to another designer? When you're really just asking for a source? Like, is there, do you need to approach it with like, oh, beyond? Just like, I hope I can return the favor. Like something specifically that can make that an easier yes from them. Especially if someone's newer. It's harder to have to ask that question to someone who's really established. When you're like, hey, I'm working on my first project and I need these things.
[00:47:06] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I try to always put myself back in an abundance mentality, but it is hard. It's hard. But, you know, for example, we've got a relatively large social media reach and I would say that that's very similar to what you're asking because we do get asked all the time on Instagram, for example, who do you do this? Who do that? And now everybody's a part of the social media game, including workrooms, drapery workrooms, and everybody wants credit for their work, which is also a hard thing to keep up with.
And, you know, we've kind of talked about this at length as a team. And, you know, I like to consider myself like a big sister to design. And we do Give out our sources, and we do give out our workrooms. And not only is that kind of a way to give back to our community and a reason that people might want to follow us, but also it's a way to say thank you to our people and our artisans. And so many of them have come back and be like, I have so much work because you post me and I have so much work because of this and that. Sometimes we have gotten burned, if I'm just being honest, we've gotten burned because then they don't have time to do our stuff anymore. And that obviously is what people are afraid of. And so there is a negative side to that, But I don't believe that that is enough of a negative not to do it, because the upside to it is, is so much bigger, is you're part of a bigger community. People who understand the bigger picture are grateful that you gave their name out. Tell whoever you're giving the name out to, tell them who referred you. And you know, people are grateful for that. And word spreads when you do good work. So it's going to spread regardless. And again, I think if you just stay in an abundance mentality, doors open for you. And, and, you know, I. I believe that's even a large way of how we've grown our business. You know, I love to tell the story of, you know, we have a. We had a custom cabinetry man who I worked with when I was just getting started, and, you know, I was just doing any job I could do to show what I could do. And he ended up because of the way I treated him and because of the complexity of our drawings and just our ease of being able to work with somebody and just being somebody who's easy to work with. He ended up referring me to one of the wealthiest men in Houston. This was far before I worked on that level of job. So I just think it's. It's a good way that, yes, these people are here to help you bring your visions to life, but you need to be a good partner back and think about ways that you can give back to the people around you, because it does come back perfect.
[00:49:51] Speaker B: Okay, so I want to talk pricing and budgeting, and when someone is evaluating how much custom we can do in a project versus how much directly from vendors at your team. When you're talking about overall budget, do you have overall budget allowances per room or are you doing overall budget allowances per category? And what I mean by that is like, okay, let's say you have $200,000 for a living room, I don't even know. Okay. And, and within that you're like cost engineering, value engineering within it. Because you're like, we know we want to do a custom sofa and honestly we're probably going to do two custom chairs in there and then there's going to be antiques and then we'll get X, Y and Z from a vendor. Or are you like looking at line items categorically? And it's like, okay, what is all upholstery across this house going to cost? And then that's where you start to figure out what can really be custom, what could be semi custom, and what you're going to be ordering online.
[00:50:49] Speaker A: Typically, we have an, an idea of what the overall project budget is, and that's actually how we filter new clients, is we just say, hey, we've got a furniture budget minimum of this and it's very kind of large scale. Do we hold people to that, like to the penny? Absolutely not. But it's just a, it's a way to set an expectation of. This is the scale we're looking to work on. And in order for us to furnish your furniture 20,000 square foot home, this is the expectation of what you actually need.
And we lose a lot of jobs that way. But it also helps kind of keep expectations right in line so there's no surprises like what this is five times what you said. So beyond that, that's really all the budget we get when we're working on a job. And then we know if somebody's very budget conscious, just through conversations, you know, we'll know what vendors to kind of avoid. And that's where the team leads role comes in. Because the team leads have more experience. They know what vendors to go, they know what this person needs. From there, we will price an entire project. And let's, and sometimes we'll just show the client this is where we're at, get a reaction from there. We start making by category slashes across the board. Let's say we're just so far over budget we have to make some major cuts. Well, rugs is one area where we make major cuts because the price of rugs can vary astronomically.
And you know, so we'll go there first and then our upholstery workroom is a place we'll go second. So, you know, if you go to a design center where it's high end furnishings everywhere, so often a custom workroom is less expensive. Now you have to change the design, obviously, but it could actually save you money for Just doing that amount of work, it could be worth it. And, you know, that's kind of how we. How we attack things. And then from there, we let the client kind of nitpick, like, hey, this piece here isn't as much of a priority for me personally to pay this.
You know, can we reselect?
[00:52:53] Speaker B: So you're showing clients the price of every single item or you're showing them whole room prices?
[00:52:59] Speaker A: We're showing the price of every item.
[00:53:01] Speaker B: Every single thing, yeah. Wow.
[00:53:04] Speaker A: Now accessories, not so much.
[00:53:06] Speaker B: Okay, we hide the accessories.
[00:53:07] Speaker A: Well, from your reaction, I want to. What are most people doing?
[00:53:11] Speaker B: I don't know if it's most. I think that I've heard a lot of people say, especially people who are working with all in construction costs, everything. They're talking $500,000 budgets that their clients are definitely wanting to see, like, how much does that pillow cost? How much does that side table cost? But then I've also heard more and more that people are like, we allocated X amount to this living room, and you don't need to know how much everything like we are in that budget. And so you are able to value engineer within that budget allowance. And they don't need to know how much every single thing is within it. Which I think is really interesting. If they agreed to the budget, it shouldn't matter how much that lamp is if it's still under the total budget.
[00:53:56] Speaker A: Interesting.
My question to them is where, like, I feel like there would be a trust issue of, like, where are you spending? Like, are they open book with their markup or are they. Because there would be like a temptation there with. Because I've had clients ask, you know, are you. How much margin are you making? And are you just cheaping out on things in order to make more margin? Is that a part of the conversation? Or they're open book with how they're marking things up.
[00:54:24] Speaker B: So I believe in the particular instances I'm thinking of in their contract, they have like a flat 30% markup no matter what. So someone can look at that total budget and know that 30% of that was marked up and the rest was directly to the goods. But that does bring me to my next question. For those custom pieces, how are you marking up? So we can say it costs less than ordering from a vendor or going to a showroom and picking out that sofa. Does it cost less actually to the client once you've marked it up as well, or is it like to produce it? It costs less than buying it from there?
[00:54:59] Speaker A: Yeah, we just have the standard markup for anything and everything, whether it's retail or whatever. It just makes for simplicity in, in accounting. And so just the way percentages work, if the, if the piece is less expensive for me to buy, there's less markup in it, just naturally. So yes, the client saves money. Absolutely. And you know, I don't, it's. I don't hold fast to that always. If. So if one item is over, let's say $15,000, for example, a Steinway piano, we do buy pianos for people and that could be a $200,000 purchase. I will not charge a full markup on that because why, you know, why would somebody not just go straight to sign away and buy it? So in those instances, I like to default to just charging clients retail. Or like, if it's a very expensive, incredible piece of art that's going to make the entire project, we will charge retail for that. Which saves the client lots and lots of money.
[00:55:55] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So that makes sense that for instance, if you bought, you know, let's say you bought 5%, 10% of your project from someone like Four Hands, but you guys do enough volume that you're getting 60 or 70% off at four hands, even though you're only going to be charging the 30% markup and you technically are leaving retail dollars on the table, you're like, well, that kind of makes up for when we have to do it on those larger items.
[00:56:23] Speaker A: Absolutely. And I just consider that that's a benefit to the client for working with us because, you know, in this time, you know, we've done enough work that we're so many of our vendors biggest clients, so we do get better pricing and we do have people who are willing to be more flexible for us. And so we just consider that a benefit to hiring us is that you get some of these price cuts. I mean, you know, and they end up paying design fees and stuff like that. So, you know, if we, we just believe in being open book about that and just passing on savings and that way, you know, people are anxious about what's going on or how are things being spent. We just kind of like to keep it simple, not complicate things, make sure everyone understands how it works. But also this is how we make money. So it's very practical. Like we have to make money to do this business.
[00:57:16] Speaker B: I think that also being flexible like that, Marie, it allows MFI projects to look like MFI projects because the alternative is we need to cut scope or we need to cut product. And by being flexible you're allowing that finished product to be exquisite, and you're not sacrificing that because you're worried about the extra 12% difference. And I feel like that probably not only from a referral standpoint with your clients of, yes, Marie was so amazing to work with, but also from just a portfolio standpoint, that someone's like, there's nothing compromised here. So I think your flexibility, even at your caliber, is something really to be admired and to take note of.
[00:58:00] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, you know, I think people often. I've heard my designer say it where it's, oh, grass is greener on the other side, but really, it's. You have the same problems at every scale of job. And I've done every scale of job. It's the same problems. It's just how much of it you're dealing with. And, you know, one hack I've learned over the years is instead of if. If you just can't get there on budget, instead of hacking rooms apart, to your point, we have cut out the entire second floor and said, client, here's what we designed. You should go purchase all of this and install it and do that. And that way, you do get to keep a portfolio piece. Let's say if you did have to cut out the entire second floor. Because if you start hacking the room apart, it is your fault in the end that it's not a good product, and clients will never remember that they were the ones to pick it apart. It will always fall on you that it wasn't good. So just remember that, that you have to stand by your product no matter what the process is along the way. It will be your fault in the end. And I say that in the best way of, like, that's a good business owner and that's a good leader, and you should claim responsibility for the end product, no matter how difficult a client is.
[00:59:17] Speaker B: I know we're coming up on an hour, so I'm prioritizing my last questions for you. For your logistics lead. What's the frequency in which they are checking in with the workroom on custom, custom pieces? It sounds like your workroom's amazing. Do they even check in with them? Or when someone's starting out, like, yes, you should see it. It in progress twice, for instance.
[00:59:40] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. They are checking in, I would say at least monthly, but because we do such a high volume with the same people, they're going over there for other projects anyway to kick off other projects. So often conversations will come up about things that are already in production. But I would say at least once a month they're checking in on progress, just seeing how things are going. The lead designers are going over there as well. It's not just a logistics person. When things are ready to be inspected, both go over there again to go see things. Especially if it's a highly complex custom piece, there's several touch points along the way and you know, sometimes it's pictures being sent, sometimes it's an in person meeting. It's it, it pays to have people who are willing to communicate. So much of our job is communication and just being able to communicate in an effective, efficient way.
[01:00:30] Speaker B: And just to clarify, the person who would be going is the logistics person or is it a designer that's going to do the check ins, the physical ones?
[01:00:39] Speaker A: I would say the timeline check in is always a logistics person. But the what is it looking like? How is it turning out? The logistics person will call in the project lead and make sure they get their eyes on it. And then sometimes if there's an issue they'll send me pictures and say we need you to come over here and take a look at things. Help us problem solve how to make this right. And you know, it's so often so much that's what clients are paying for. Clients are never bothered with issues or like things that are going wrong. We will find a way to fix it on our end and make it perfect before the client is ever troubled.
[01:01:13] Speaker B: With it or ever even knows about it. Question about problems when you're working with a tradesperson or a workroom, when something is not correct and let's not say hey, you know, it's not a design change that like we acknowledge is incorrect but like something is executed incorrectly. What can you expect from a workroom? Should you expect that you will be charged back for that time? Should you expect that, hey, like where's the line of hey, you need to correct this and hey, I want this to be right for our client. I'm going to eat this.
[01:01:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's, that's about finding the right partner, people who get the big picture. And I'll just share a quick little story about how I found the people I was, I'm working with now is I was working with a different workroom who did great work, did good product, but they sent two silk stools that were just creased wrong and not sewn well and they weren't going to fix them for us. And the way we do installs is we do it all at once and we reveal to the client and so we wanted it perfect the way the client is obviously expecting and the way we were expecting it. Well, I called this new workroom, the one I used today, and I said, hey, we're in a pickle. We need this fixed, and we need it fixed in two days.
And they did it. And they didn't even charge me for it. Now, would I ever expect that? No. But that's somebody who understands the big picture. They knew the kind of volume we were putting out, and back then it was a fraction of what we do today.
And I would say even to. So we switched over to them slowly but fully. And that's the only person who touches our stuff now, besides, like, a few other people who we really, you know, want to work with. And they get it. They understand the big picture. If, if a difficult client comes in and they want to change everything about the chair at the sitting, then they do it. And often they don't charge us, but we don't expect that we actually ask them, please charge us. Because if a client is changing something that they approved, the client expects to change it. And we don't want to burn out incredible people we work with. So we often will push back, like, hey, no, go ahead and charge us for the change. Or if it's something that they did wrong, absolutely. They would never charge us. I think I just have an extra special vendor who gets it from a larger. They want to, like, be the best vendor and be our vendor forever, so they get things from that point. But as far as expectations, I would say if it's. If it's a request coming from you and you didn't provide enough detail, you, meaning the designer, you should not expect them to pay for that. If it's something done incorrectly or bad quality and they normally do high quality stuff, then I would, I would expect them to pay for that.
[01:03:58] Speaker B: And if someone's just starting out with a new vendor and you know, the first couple pieces come back, they're like, okay, they're not great. That's not necessarily something you would expect them to fix or pay for, but you would just be like, this isn't our person.
[01:04:13] Speaker A: That's right. That's right. If that's what they think is high quality, then you're not going to change that. And don't be somebody's like, school of quality. Like, just go on to the next person.
[01:04:23] Speaker B: Got it. Okay, Marie, as we look into 2025, can you share anything that you have coming up, or is everything legally, secretly bound and we get no secrets?
[01:04:35] Speaker A: Oh, gosh Well, I don't have many secrets, but I would say we're doing some incredible projects. We're so excited about what's on the roster for the next year. You know, I've got an incredible team of talented women. We've got a new. A couple new team members join, joining us in the new year, which I'm excited about. And also we are working on some charity projects, which I'm really excited about. Looking for ways to kind of give back to our community with people who are in need around us. So I'm excited to kind of roll out that story in the, you know, in the months to come.
[01:05:08] Speaker B: I actually heard about that. I think I was talking to one of your partners recently and they were really honored that you came to them. And I can't wait to see that executed.
[01:05:16] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I'm so excited.
[01:05:18] Speaker B: Marie, thank you so, so, so much for your time. This was super valuable and a lot less intimidating and scary than it seems at first. And now all of a sudden everybody's like, let's just go custom all the time.
[01:05:30] Speaker A: I love it. Well, thank you so much for having me on. Always a pleasure and I hope to see you soon.
[01:05:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll see you in the new year with new baby.
[01:05:38] Speaker A: That's right. That's right. Congratulations.
[01:05:40] Speaker B: Thanks, Ray. Foreign for more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more, don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes or at patreon.com forward/the interior collective. Thank you so, so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. The biggest thank you to you our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMS and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible. Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast, the business of beautiful living.
[01:07:00] Speaker A: It.
