[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: Hey, welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey and this is the podcast about the business of beautiful living. Today we've had an exciting episode lined up for you as we explore the journey of transforming an interior design studio into a thriving lifestyle brand. Joining us is the incredible Kristin Forgioni, the creative force behind the lifestyle company, design firm and retail shop, and longtime close personal industry friend. After spending a decade in diverse fields like finance and hospitality, Kristin really found her true calling when she attended fashion school in la. This experience reignited her childhood passion for color and design, setting her on a path to creating a brand that would soon take the west coast design market by storm. Based in Arizona, the lifestyle company has been leading the charge since 2012, serving clients nationwide and building a talented team of organic, desert loving designers and a support staff. Kristina has expertly mastered the art of selling a lifestyle to a wide audience. From affordable home and fashion finds to top of the line new construction luxury custom homes. In today's episode, Kristin will share her inspiring journey of expanding from a design studio to a full fledged lifestyle brand. We'll dive into the lessons she's learned, the challenges she's faced, and her vision for the future. Whether you are an aspiring designer or a seasoned pro looking to broaden your horizons, Kristin's insights will undoubtedly inspire you to think bigger and be bolder. We are so excited to invite you to dive deeper into the Interior Collective Podcast episodes now on Patreon unlock access to in depth analysis, helpful downloads and worksheets created with each podcast episode so subscribers gain behind the scenes access to additional resources like examples and screenshots of guest spreadsheets, construction documents and so much more. Your subscription also gets you immediate access to our private community of interior designers and our team of industry experts ready to answer your questions. Subscribe
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Hi Kristen and welcome to the show. It's so great to catch up with you. We got to see you back in August at Design Camp and I'm so glad to continue the conversation.
[00:02:32] Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me. You are so easy to talk to and there is truly nowhere else I'd rather be right now.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: Well, I love that you're sitting in your daughter's room for this recording in our very high tech recording environment as I sit in our conference room with art still on the ground behind me. So can't wait to dig in Your. Your business has grown so tremendously, Kristen, over the last. In my head, it's eight to 10 years. Like, that's kind of the timeline that I've been stalking you. He started off solo, and now you have a pretty huge team on both the design side and the retail side of your business. But before we dig into retail, can you tell us about how your design team is structured?
[00:03:15] Speaker A: Yes, it has been, I would say, exponential growth over the last seven years. You're pretty close with eight to 10, honestly. But I do also think that. Right. Especially in podcast land and like, business land, it all seems very sudden for, I think everyone on the outside looking in. So I do feel like that's a good reminder of, like, it's not that fast. I mean, you know, I think so. It's interesting. I guess some people will, you know, make comments like, gosh, you're an overnight success. And I'm like, I've been doing this for 13 years. Like, what are you talking about? But so to the question at hand, our design team is structured and always has been since. Since day one, at least, as we started bringing on additional talent. I'm the creative director, principal designer. I still oversee everything creative. Nothing leaves our office, not a single design without me seeing it. So our team really does operate under the guise of if it has an aesthetic value to it, I need to approve it. And then under me are two senior design directors that are some of our longest term employees, and then under them are lead designers, then designers, and then design assistants. And right now, we actually don't have a design assistant for the first time in a long time. And it's been. It's been different and different and I'm kind of. I almost kind of enjoy it. Weird.
[00:04:27] Speaker B: I don't know, okay, how many different teams are, like, you broke it down, but how many people are on the design team and how many teams within that does that break down to?
[00:04:36] Speaker A: Yeah, so. So two main teams each under each senior design director, and then those two senior design directors report to me. And at our highest, we were at about 12, and right now we're at 6. And it's not for any reason other than just the natural ebb and flow of career choices and. Right. Project volume and maternity leave and kind of all of those things. So we've got an intimate team right now. I'm really enjoying it. I am.
[00:05:04] Speaker B: I feel like six. The jump from six to 12, obviously that's literally double, but it definitely goes from when there's six of you. It is super intimate. You know the girls really well, you get to interact with them a lot. And then once you hit that 12 mark, like you're a people manager and you are so great at still holding on to the creative aspect and like you're still seeing everything that goes out. But our full time staff at Heidego Studio and Quinn, we're right at about 12 full time and it's like at this point people are doing their own thing and like I am in on what I need to be in on, but I'm not on everything else. So I definitely see that appeal of having things small but mighty for a little while. I'm curious, you mentioned you're down one design assistant right now just circumstantially and you're enjoying it. Does that mean that you're going to pocket a little extra savings with the payroll bonus with having that one out or that'll be something that you're looking to fill when the time's right?
[00:06:09] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. I think I always thought we needed a design assistant and I think that because we have such a seasoned team in the full time team that we have and we still have part time install assistants and they can really help out if we need office work so. Or no office help. So of the six that we have full time just on the design team, we have four full time marketers that are not included in that. We have a full full time buying team, we have a full administrative team, we have a full E Comm team. The design team has just been able to really niche down almost to the most seasoned team. And I never thought, like I said that we could operate without a design assistant. I truly feel like a design assistant is one of the most challenging jobs in a design firm and I still believe that. But I have seen our team kind of expand a little bit, figure out what, what was working, what wasn't, figure out how they can help each other. We've definitely refined our processes a little bit. Kind of, kind of took the opportunity to work smarter, not harder. And I'm liking it. Like you know, and I don't know, I think the team, when they hear this that maybe we're not hiring another design assistant might freak out. But for right now it's like kind of working. And yes, I'm, I'm enjoying the payroll break for with one seat and we'll see what happens.
[00:07:22] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. I think that you touching on it's forced you previous to that you really nailed down your systems and processes, refine them, revisited them because you've obviously had them in place, but then having that one body out. We're kind of in the same situation where we've got maternity leave happening seemingly constantly. Next up is my turn. But we, last year we had three girls out at the same exact time. And you want them to come back. You want them to have a space to come back to. So it is about covering that role for a certain amount of time. And then once you see that it can be absorbed by the team, it gets harder to be like, well, maybe that's its own job.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: It's so. It's so true. And I also think it gives the rest of the team an opportunity to look within a little bit and evaluate their workflow, evaluate what kind of time they're putting towards things that maybe aren't the best use of their time. So I think it all happens for a reason, and I'm good with it right now.
[00:08:15] Speaker B: Awesome. So you mentioned that this is the same system it's been since you first started hiring talent. Can you walk us back to that time when you were making your first hires? What were their roles? Would you change anything about the type of role you were looking to fulfill or the type of job responsibilities that you delegated right away at that initial hiring point?
[00:08:38] Speaker A: Yes. I will also say I believe everything happens for a reason. Right. And you don't know what you don't know. And especially in business, you have to take every opportunity, whether micro or macro, and decide how it can serve you. Right. What am I to learn from this? How can I. How can I change this moving forward? So I don't know that I would change anything necessarily in terms of. We've had. We've had amazing talent. We've had wonderful people dedicate a portion of their life to the lifestyle company. And that is something that I will always be grateful for. Right. Whether it was a short time or we have several that are a long time, like seven plus years, I'm. I'm eternally grateful for that. And I feel that the employee employer seat is a really delicate dance. And as business changes, it gets even more delicate and more challenging. So all that to say, I don't know that I would change who we hired. I think I would probably protect our business a little bit more in the beginning, and if that makes sense. I only knew how to hire a. An employee. That's all I knew because I was always only an employee. And what I mean by that is, is. And I will also say 13 years is a long time and business has changed A lot. Right. Like there was no zoom. There was no video call. There was, there was really no opportunity to use fiverr or upwork or like tap into creatives on an hourly basis. I mean, it just wasn't like that. And so I do feel like I don't know that that was at the forefront where, when I was growing my team, I, if I, if I was to grow my team now, I would probably spend a lot more time trying to find the right people with the right skills, wherever they were, and figuring out how I can have that complement the talent needs that I have versus taking everyone on as my own. And we at one point were as high as like 61 employees. And that is a lot of employees and your job both as I sit, as my husband, who's our CEO sits, as our executive leadership team sits, just changes drastically from being client focused to being employee focused. Right. And so that was an interesting learning curve and knock on wood, I do think we navigated it pretty well over the last few years. But. So that's an interesting one. I think I would, I would probably take on more, more independent contractor work. I think I'd probably take on more agency than maybe what I did then. But again, I'm so thankful that it. We are where we are because of the human capital that we have. And that's always been our currency. It has always been our employees first, our clients second, second, and, and that served as well. So my first hires, I still believe to this day, very, very firmly in any business environment, but specifically in design or creative field, you have to hire someone that has complimenting skills that need you. So if it's just you and the first hire shouldn't be someone who has the skills you have, I. E. If you can design and you're technical and you can close business and you're buttoned up on, you know, proposals and invoicing, don't hire someone who can do that. You need to hire someone who does what you are not good at or don't want to do or is not the best use of your. Your time. So for me it was an office manager. And in the beginning we literally sat in a teeny tiny little closet and on the backs of our chairs would bump each other. And she was completely office bound. And she answered the phone and returned emails and sent invoices and paid trades and, you know, paid our rent and it was literally $325 gone. But I wouldn't give to go back to that. And that was what she did. And she kept all of the administrative tasks at bay. And that is still a role that is very important.
[00:12:01] Speaker B: You just mentioned something that I'd love to dig in a little bit more. I don't think we've ever talked about it on the show and honestly I'm not sure I've ever even talked about it out loud with anybody. But that you would have dug into or explored further independent contractors or even agencies to help fulfill roles instead of bringing on the employee. Can you bring dig into that a little bit more? Because I feel like especially for a designer who's maybe a one person show or maybe they have a lead designer or a design assistant right now and they're thinking about that additional person, especially when we're talking like marketing or technical drawing and they're like for what an agency or this independent contractor is charging me, they're like I can pay someone full time, a little less hourly and have someone full time. Like why would I ever go that other route? And I'd love your wisdom as to why that isn't always the best option. Just because you can have someone sitting next to you 24 7.
[00:13:01] Speaker A: Yes. I think at, at the highest level when you bring on an employee, they are yours for lack of a better term. And you owe them, in my opinion, a stable work environment. You owe them fiduciary responsibility that you're running a financially sound company. You owe them security in at least the most good faith way possible. Obviously we don't know what's coming and. Right, we don't. But you owe them. You owe them to have your stuff enough together to provide a growth path for them. Right. And maybe UO is, is a negative term and I shouldn't use that. But I always took it very seriously. If I hired an employee, I wanted it to be for the long haul.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:42] Speaker A: It's a relationship. I'm a people person. I'm a, I'm a human connection person. And so I think at the highest level a contract employee or an agency is not that. And even if it costs you a little bit more, there's such fluidity in that type of arrangement. Right. And you don't owe them anything. And when you're done with your contract, you're done. And, and I even think the conversation about expectations and changes and, and managing to the business, not to the employee really changes when it's, it's a 1099 contractor. And like I said, I am not the expert in that. I have taken on every employee there employees of. We will take a bullet for these people. They will take a bullet for us. Right. We are a big work family. So I'm certainly not the person that can tell you that like this is the way to do it, but I have in the last year empowered our team. If we need additional human capital, if we need additional expertise, if we need, you know, whatever, whatever our business is calling for at the time, especially in a creative or digital space, like let's go out and get the talent and let's find the people that are marketing themselves that are, that are freelance for lack of a better term. Let's bring them in. Let's teach them everything we know in terms of how, how to manage our business and what our internal expectations are and let's let them go. They're the expert in that. Right. So I feel like it allows everyone to kind of niche, niche down a little bit which I mean post 2020 I just think is like the only way to grow it is to, to really refine and like focus on what you're good at and find the people that are willing to do it with.
[00:15:11] Speaker B: You think that's so wise and something that I built my businesses on. Everybody was independent contractors. It got to the point where they needed to become employees because their roles were regular and not deadline set necessarily like they weren't. It was no longer fitting in the independent contractor bucket but for things like marketing, technical drawings, a lot of, a lot of things in an interior design studio that can be independent contracted especially because you are on a per project basis. I mean you have X project and they can be under contract for that entire project. I think is really fascinating. But one point that you just made is that they're coming in. You teach them everything they need to know about your own company, but they're coming in with their own independent knowledge about this topic. And even with the best employees in the world, you, Kristen, you know I love my girls like so deeply. There still is so much time people management of those employees of getting them trained the way you want it to happen and teaching them things that they might not be coming in knowing. And so outsourcing while it might cost you a little bit more when you're looking at an hourly comparison, by the time you add your health benefits, the taxes, the 1K, any other sort of benefits that you're able to provide to your team and are so proud to provide, I think that those what feel like sizable investments in independent contractors or agencies suddenly can really reach more reward than maybe that initial look over.
[00:16:42] Speaker A: I totally agree and I, I also think that you have to begin with that in mind. Right. If you. I talk to a lot of designers. I do, I do business coaching hourly. That has been so rewarding and wonderful. And in speaking to a lot of designers that are, are, have one or two employees, some of them will be straight up with me and say, I don't know how long I'm going to be doing this. I'm self taught. I'm as my second career. I'm going to be a grandma soon. I'm having fun right now. I have three projects. Like, those are not characteristics that promote longevity. Right. And it's not a bad thing. That's the really cool thing about design is you can, you can skin that cat so many ways and be very fulfilled and produce beautiful work. And there's a lot of flexibility there. So I do, I think, I think it's been such a cathartic experience to ride this employment wave over the last rate. I don't think I hired my first employee until maybe I was like three years in, let's call it 10 years. And, and they really are. There are multiple ways to do it. And I do think that if you try to begin with the end in mind, even if it's for a short time, it could be beneficial for you to have fluidity. Especially with the, the business climate of today. It's just so different than it was, you know, 10 years ago, even five.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: Years ago, even two, three years ago, when Covid was booming and there was just. Yeah, just calls coming in nonstop. Absolutely. So, speaking of employment, it is not that long ago that you brought your husband on board to the team. And I know that that was something. Personally, I avoided bringing Quinn onto our team forever. And I was like, there's absolutely no way that this will work. We have a perfect, blissful marriage. And that's because our brains do not work the same. And therefore I cannot have you in the office. We brought him in at the beginning of 2024 and it actually has been incredible. And we're closer than I ever thought. And he, he excels in all of the ways that I fall short. I'm wondering what got you to the point of deciding to bring your husband into the business. Why didn't he start off in the business and kind of, where are you guys at now? If you're willing to disclose?
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Yes. Oh, my gosh. Of course. I don't think business kills marriages. I think reality TV kills marriages, first and foremost. Why wasn't he in the. In, you know, early on? I mean, frankly, because I didn't I didn't know what was going to happen. Was this really going to be a thing? I am as self taught as self taught gets. I went to school for fashion. I dropped out of college twice. I, I literally just fell into perfect timing. I started blogging. 1, 2, 6, can you help me with my bedding? 7, 8, 9. I'm doing a kitchen renovation. I'm sure you can pick tile and like just snowballing from there. And six months later I quit my cor and we were off. Right. And so I don't even think I had time to think about like, wow, if we did this together, we could probably set up the infrastructure a lot more, you know, soundly. It was like, okay, I'm doing this and can you please just make sure you have a job and benefits?
[00:19:39] Speaker B: Like I just make sure we still have a house.
[00:19:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes, exactly. So, so that is truly, you know, how it started. And I think as we, as we knew that there was proof of concept and projects were coming in, we probably had the conversation maybe after the first year and, and it kind of went like, you know, do you think you'd ever want to do this with me? And at the time he was like, what would I do? Like be your design assistant? You know, and I was like, oh, like, I mean I don't think you'd be good at that. But like, you know a lot about people management and you know, like money and logistics and he was formerly in high end liquor and beverage sales. So he's, and he has always been the most wonderful people person and manager and he is so compassionate and, but firm and like truly like a gentle giant. I think in, in so many ways he's six four tall, dark and handsome. It's a good thing. But so anyway, so I think, I think about that time we kind of started having the conversation and, and he loved his job. So it basically was like, hey, I would love to do this, we would love to do this. But it's so rare to love your corporate job with a great boss and great benefits and 401k matching and all the things. And, and we even had then, you know, like so much flexibility in his schedule. He's an outside sales, so it just was like, this is silly to walk away from right now. So our plan was five years for him to join at five years. He ended up joining it at the end of year six. So we strategically, and we're very transparent with his employer and they were so supportive, like, hey, we know we don't have you for very long. This is how we're going to use you in the next year. Can you give us that commitment? This is the day it's going to happen. And so we gave them literally like a year's notice and. And six months. It was a long time, though, and they were wonderful. And. And so it was just so easy, if you will, in that transition point. We saved a lot of money. I didn't get a pedicure for four years. Truly. Truly. So. So year six, he joined. And truly, from the second he joined before his last day at his corporate job, he had already kind of started working with us a little bit and was like, you're doing this out of a storage unit. What are you doing? Like, we need a warehouse. And I was like, a warehouse? That sounds expensive. Like, and he, he was like, what? We operate this way? Do you even know what kind. What's even in there? And we were like, no. I mean, there's a lot of candles and, like, pillows. And he was like, oh, my God, wow. Like, I didn't realize this was the one I was coming into. So he immediately got us a warehouse and we started that transition. And I remember freaking out. It was 3, 300amonth for like 3, 500 square feet. And that was just so much money. And I was panicking and I was like, my God, what have you done? We signed like a two year lease or a three year lease, which seemed like forever. And I would say the beginning was challenging because he was kind of groomed in his professional life to come in and change everything. That's what he'd always done on his sales teams. And so he came in and started changing everything. And I was like, excuse me, sir. I have gotten us this far. Like, I appre. You know, and so that, I would say, was the. The biggest hurdle in the beginning. And when we got over that, it's been smooth sailing for the most part. We have very different jobs.
[00:22:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd love to dig into that a little bit too, because one of the ways that Quinn joining the company has worked really well is that Quinn does not come into the office with me. Quinn works from home. I do not want to listen to Quinn on calls all day. I am nosy. I leave. I leave friendly feedback at the end. It does not work for him. And he actually reports to Kendall. He does not report to me. Obviously, there's a lot of questions that get fielded to me, but having a little bit of delineation and a little bit of professional separation has really, really helped. And I feel like for Interior designers. It feels like a common thing or it's. It seems as we're looking on social media that like partners are being brought in to the business and it can feel like a natural next step. So I'd love if you can expand a little bit on how you got to the point of being okay with letting go of some of that control as he comes in and like you're trusting his expertise and fighting those feelings of whoa, wait, I got us this far. And not just acquiescing to that and saying, okay, you know what you're doing, but also putting your foot down and saying, no, I. This is still my show.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: Yes. Vince works 35 miles away from me. He, his office is in our warehouse, which is where our buying, administrative and E Com team and obviously our warehousing and E Comm fulfillment are. So he's there and then I'm at our design offices. Like I said, 35 miles away. And I will tell you. Hold on, clean break. I will tell you that that is a non negotiable for us. We were looking at buying a building in like 2021 and bringing everyone together. And there's such a huge part of me that would still love to do that. But as we were looking at property and trying to see if this is going to work, I was like, hey, I'm just going to call a spade a spade. I don't know about us working in the same office. And he was like, what do you mean? Why I love to work with you. And I'm like, that's so cute. But I'm worried about how our team is going to navigate that because we handle things very differently and a lot of our team dotted line report to both of us, which is kind of a challenge. So I think for us the distance helps because naturally, you know, you're not in each other's space. And like my office is my office and his office is his office and we do run them differently. Your other question about just like delineation and kind of how that works for us. I handle everything creative. I handle all marketing, all design from a creative standpoint, all buying, all of our brand footprint. Anything, like I said, that has an aesthetic value as it relates to the lifestyle company and my personal brand. Vince handles everything, finance, everything, design operations, logistics, E Com, retail operations. So it is very clear. And in figuring out when to use my voice and not to. I don't know that I'll ever figure that out. There are some things that I care wildly about that I shouldn't and we have always said in our marriage and in business, I will talk about anything with you, I will fight about anything with you. And I would rather fight about the things that don't matter than things that do. And so for us, things that do. Our finance are obviously from a marriage standpoint, like infidelity, rearing, religion for some people, you like those big categories that, like, if you're not aligned, and we are totally aligned in those things. So I think it has helped us to remember, like, these are still little things, even though it's our business and it's our livelihood and we have agreed to talk about everything. And I will be heard, and he will be heard, but at the end of the day, if it falls under his umbrella, it's his decision. And if it falls under my umbrella, it's my decision. And there have been times where it's like, okay, I just want you to know for the record for the fifth time, that I am not okay with this. And if you still do it, you are right ahead. And he will say this in the I just want you to know for the fifth time that I am not okay with this. And if you still do it, then you go ahead and do it. And then I think there's things that are just need to be totally unanimous, and that's things like, usually personnel type of things, whether we're moving on from someone or restructuring or whatever. Obviously, like major investment things, whether it's digital or brick and mortar, retail lease signing, tax implications, those types of things. Like, that takes a unanimous come together and. And that's kind of always been how we run it.
[00:26:57] Speaker B: Thank you so much for clarifying that and just being so candid with how it's been set up for you guys and how you've been making it. You mentioned what falls under your umbrella, and you previously had mentioned that, like, anything that goes out creatively, your eyes are on. I would love to hear specifically, like, do you have deliverables or is it more general oversight? You are just seeing things at the very end. How does that work? How does your client interpret that role? Are they thinking that you are designing every single thing, or do they just know that you've seen every single thing?
[00:27:32] Speaker A: Great question. Our clients are very aware from the very beginning that we operate under a team design mentality. I truly do believe more brains are better than one. I think every designer we have is a better designer than I am. I'll tell you right now, I truly believe that with my heart. I think they have more talent. I think they are Aware of more resources because I'm not the one on the stick anymore. I think they're more prepared. I think they're more immersed. I think, you know, all of. I think they're just better suited, frankly. But at the same time, I. We operate under kind of a benchmark approval situation. So when I meet a client, I'm always very, very forthcoming and saying, I'm the creative director, principal designer. You will have a senior design director and lead designer. These are the people that you will talk to on a daily. Just because I'm not on every email and phone call anymore doesn't mean I'm not very well versed in the project. I know everything. We talk about it every day. We are in the office like it's, you know, it's very much part of our regular dialogue. But the people that are executing are these people for you? I do, I think, a pretty good job at doing routine. I call them, well, checks. So we have in our asana a place throughout the project based on scope, where I come in and re. Engage the client. I don't want them to only hear from me when they haven't paid their bill. Right. Like, that's not the experience that we want. I want them to hear from me at multiple checkpoints with good news, sometimes with bad news. So I keep it really top of mind to make sure that I always have a seat at that table and that I'm trusted, not just because, for lack of a better term, my name's on the side of the building. I think that that is. Is an ongoing relationship that a client and a designer or any sort of professional or even creative. Right. Partnership has to be earned. It's not. It's not something that is given even. Even day one when you sign the contract, right. It's kind of like they're paying us for what we're going to do, not what we have done. And so we need to really keep that top of mind as it relates to design projects and kind of my job there. We always create concept. So from the very beginning, where I'm in a concept meeting, concepts are created. If for some reason my schedule is, you know, hellacious and I can't be there, the concept meeting maybe with the lead designer and the senior design director, once they're through that, then they present that to me. I'm like, great, good, you guys. I think it's awesome. Let's do X, let's do Y. I'm analyzing Pinterest, right? I'm looking at plans. So we kind of make that concept and then they go and design. And then I'd say when they feel ready or right when we're kind of pacing through our design process, I'll say, show me, show me what you've got. Right? Like put a, put time on my calendar. Let's look at it. And most of them, I think, really love. I actually think all of our designers really like that. Some of them still get a little bit nervous when they're going to show me, but I really love everything they put together. And I think there's very few times that I'm like, hey, this is not at all the direction we agreed on. It has only happened a few times. And I honestly think usually that's just because they're human and there's been some outside influence. Right. Client got to them. Client showed them something that was totally left field and now they're completely confused and not even. They don't even know what to do. Right. And so you're trying to work through that. So I would say yes, I really do. I see everything. I'm very transparent with where our talent lies in our company and most of our clients, I, I hope, I think they love it. Right. I think they know that there's a lot of opportunities for just really good collaborative design. And I have always said Design is like 10% of what we do. The real money is in execution and that takes a lot of power. And frankly, it's kind of impossible to do by yourself unless you have a really, really small project load.
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Okay, a couple follow up questions. Kristen, I love hearing that your team will do their thing and then they'll say, hey, we're ready to present something to you and your answer is get, let's get that on my calendar and we'll sit down and look over it. I am curious as to what level of finished that presentation you expect to see. Are you good if someone's like, hey, I'm putting time on your calendar and like really? It's just like a Canva whiteboard with a whole bunch of ideas on it. Or are you, have you set up your team to be like, I should be looking at something that could be going out to a client. Like, it's that level of finish and we're just gonna. My team calls it the STA sauce. I'm just gonna sprinkle my fairy dust on it and make, you know, little adjustments at the end?
[00:34:07] Speaker A: Yes, good question. No, I do not expect and frankly don't want them to be all the way through client ready details. Because I still change. I would say I still change something if not on every page, most pages, every time for the most part. There's been a couple that I've been like, this is perfect. Right? And it's not because of lack of talent. It's the talent is there. Right? There's a thousand different ways you get two designers in a room, they're both going to tell you how to do something completely different. So I feel that I have been as encouraging to, to our Design team, right? And saying, like, this is a collaboration. I trust you. I always tell my team, if you believe in this, fight me. Like, fight me. I am not a dictator. I do not want to be the. I don't want to change something that you believe in because you didn't give me a chance to believe it, right? I tell them, like, you need to have sales skills. You need to tell me why we need this red marble coffee table. Because client is not going to go for it. And if you can't sell me, there's no way you can sell them. And you don't sound serious, and you don't know the dimensions and you don't know what type of marble it is or finish it is, or how we're going to get it or how much it costs. So we need to do some research, right? Like, and so I. I do encourage them to bring enough to me that they can be confident in their design choices. But for God's sake, don't waste time. I don't want you detailing everything down to a perfect design presentation for me to just chop. Especially in the. In the early years, like, for my designers and senior design directors who have been with me for five and seven years, they know they're. They're pretty good, right? Everything they bring me, I'm like, done, done, done, done, done. Because we've been working together for seven years. Design team that has been with me for one, two, even three. I think it just takes a little bit, right? It's like, it's time. It just takes. You got to see enough things, and they need to be able to see what I'm seeing to know when to stop and when you know what.
[00:35:57] Speaker B: Can you be as specific as you can about what it is you're actually reviewing in that, like. So when your designers bring it to you, are you looking at PDFs, are you looking at a list of products, like a tear sheet? Like, what is it that you're actually looking at that you're approving? Improving at that point for someone who's ready to let their designer or design team kind of have some more autonomy, but is also giving you enough that you can actually give valid, thoughtful feedback and not just feel like you have to give them feedback for the sake of giving feedback.
[00:36:32] Speaker A: Yes, Great question. I am looking at, we'll say 70% completed design boards, so the project is branded, that our fonts are correct, our formatting is correct, flooring is laid. Right. Let's say it's a build and we've got finishes like We've got constants. There are certain things that are no longer variables that are just requirements in our firm. All that literally. I can't even see what's on the paper. If the font is. Or the formatting is screwed up. It drives me crazy. I'm like, get out of here. Nope.
[00:36:59] Speaker B: No, no, no.
[00:37:00] Speaker A: I can't. I can't even look at it. So. So I'd say it's about 70% complete. And then I. I think the most successful reviews are where there's choices, right? Like, hey, I was considering this or this, or this marble mosaic is 220A foot. This one's 39. Like, do you see the differences? I see. How do you feel the client's gonna react? She told me this about this, so for those reasons, I went with this. So it really is like this. I don't wanna say delicate dance. It's like a waltz between, you know, principal and design team. And it's a lot trying to articulate why you made the decisions that you made both aesthetically and, as I said, design is 10% of what we do. Can we install it? Can the product or the material be used in this application? Like, something. I'll tell you, that is my biggest pet peeve is when I see wall tile on the floor, and I'm like, is that floor tile? Like, oh, I didn't check. I'm like, what? Why would you even put it on a design presentation if you haven't checked? To make sure that the application is what we're intending to use it for. I'm not the person who should be deciding that. Can you put the tile on the floor? Yes or right?
[00:38:01] Speaker B: And so.
[00:38:01] Speaker A: So things like that. And like I said, our design team is so thoughtful and intentional and wonderful. I rarely have to do that anymore, but it is, I'd say 70% complete, but not detailed perfectly yet. And then I will see it again before they detail it, and then I will see it again before it's printed and ready for presentation.
[00:38:20] Speaker B: Got it. Okay. One last question on that topic before we move on. You mentioned earlier that you all use asana, and you have, like, benchmarks of where you're making sure to chime in with the client. And so it's not just like, hey, we still need that invoice. I'm curious if these design reviews are also set in asana, like, in your official process, or if it is more what I mean, obviously, your design team knows when the next review is due for the client. Are you saying I need to see this 10 days out, two weeks out. Is there a time that you're like, I need to see everything X amount of time before we're getting to the point of presentation.
[00:38:57] Speaker A: I can't say that there's a. That we have mastered the length of time that we need. Right. I think it also depends on different designers. Some designers go through revisions super quick, some like take a long time. I also think it depends on their current workload. How, how much are they out of the office for an install? How big is the project? When we're presenting an 11,000 foot house like that takes a whole nother level of detail and review than if we're presenting 3,000ft. Right. Whether it's furnishings or hardscape. So I can't say that there's some like, methodical or like specific number. I really do rely on them to manage their individual calendars. Think about the time that you're going to be in the office. Think about my time. Like I do say it as my 5th grade biology teacher would probably be really happy to hear. Your lack of preparation does not constitute an emergency on my part. Right. And it is so true. And so it's like you do not even think about sending me this the night before. You know, there, there's just like some common practices that you know as professionals, you don't set any associate up, whether they're your colleague or your boss, to have to review under pressure to feel like they can't make changes because we're out of time. Like all of that is the lack of preparation bucket for me. And if that happens, it's only done one time normally then, and then we don't do that anymore.
[00:40:15] Speaker B: Understood. Okay, so I would really love to dig in now to how you transitioned from your starting phase of blogging to working on the caliber of custom homes that you are now. I mean, you're doing the best of the best projects there are in your market and in the country and I mean, notably across the globe, honestly. And for, for people listening or people who have been doing this for seven or eight years themselves, sometimes that feels just like so unattainable that they have just been doing killer remodels or, you know, they've really been focused on historic projects, but they haven't been able to break into like new, full custom. You get to design and touch every single thing in a home. Can you try to rewind and walk us back any of the key steps that you feel like were really pivotal in your career to start landing those full custom projects?
[00:41:16] Speaker A: Yes. Before I do that. I also want to say, and I spend a lot of time in my one on one coaching in, in this, I'll call it Umbrella, if you will. Bucket. Right. Comparison is a killer and we all know that. And I think that design, we are so lucky to be part of an industry that has such wide opportunity for success. And I also think that you shouldn't want to do this because you see other people doing it. You should want to work at this, at, let's just call it custom homes. Maybe it's not even a level if that's what you want. Like if you, if you love remodels, let's say you love kitchens, you love closets. My closet designer is amazing. She's wonderful. I have tried to get her so many times and she's like, no, babe, I love closets. And I'm like, I love you. I love you even more for that. Like, no wonder you do so amazing, such amazing closets because you love closets and that's what you're doing. So like, don't let the bright shiny objects change what you want. And if you haven't had that exercise as a principal, as a one woman or man show, as a three person team, like you're there, there are trade offs always, right? And so do those exercises early or late. If you haven't done it, do it now no matter how many years you've been in business, right. And really think about what makes you happy and even what your day looks like. If you don't like construction, you're not going to want to build custom homes, right? Or be the designer on it. If you, if builders drive you nuts and like you don't want to walk the talk and, and talk to trades, you're probably not going to love it that much because such a small percentage of what we do is as I say, armistic in design. So I'll start by saying that. And you can still be so successful, gosh, in so many other areas of design and like absolutely kill it in that arena. So there is so much opportunity outside of what, what I do think is viewed as like kind of the top, which is, I would say high end luxury custom homes, several millions, right. We have a beautiful, high, a beautiful project for a high profile client on the side of Mount Soledad in San Diego. We're working with this like insane architect. It's a dream come true project. It's literally going to take five more years and it's already been in replanning for two years. So this can be A seven year project. My kid is going to be in, in college by the time we're done with this house. So I think there are things to think about in just the longevity of business. Right. Seven years on a client project is a long time and some of them take a very long time. So I'm making it sound so glamorous. I know. But it really is a pleasure and it's something I love and so it's why we do it. How did we get there? Aligning yourself with builders is pretty much the only way that I know how to do it at least because to build custom you have to start really early. So if it's not builders, it's. And the way that you can get on their radar is relationship. Right. It's. It's also quality of work. I can tell you. Architecture and just everything that goes into it is so above my pay grade and I'm so thankful that there are people out there that do it because I'm not smart enough for that in any capacity. But I love to be able to hold my own enough that an architect can trust me and knows that I'm not going to bulldoze over their ideas. Right. And that I'm a collaborator. I think, I think honing your skills in business and in even just vocabulary, honestly Sauce, I hear it so much. Speaking like the job you want or speaking like the client you're going after. You don't have to be formally trained or even college educated for that. You just have to take the time to listen to the right stuff, immerse in the right publications, Google a little bit, you know, like listen to podcasts about design, about. About construction. I can tell you something that I think I brought to the table early was I had renovated for myself, literally, like Vince and I with a hammer. We've done flip and renovated. Like I said, our first house. And I think just having some know how of the build process helped me really. Right. You need. No one wants to teach you how to be a professional in your arena. And I don't need to know how to build the house from the ground up. That's the builder's job. I don't need to know how to draw the house from the ground up. That's the architect's job. But I do need to know a lot about what they both do so that I know what my job is. I have the esthetic value of making sure that every single thing in that house has an esthetic value and a hierarchy of design that makes sense. And if I Have no idea what either one of them are doing. That would be really challenging. So I think making sure that your skills are, are up to par. I think surrounding yourself with the right community and relationships with custom home builders and architects, as silly as it sounds, go walk their projects. If you hear something of a, of a new project going up in your neighborhood, if, if you get invited to something, if you have the luxury to travel and you can go to other markets and look at how they're doing it, like all of this is knowledge and it seems like math, you know, micro little choices. But all of those, all of those little micro choices can really start opening some doors for you. And all you need is one person to say, hey, send me your work. You know, hey, thanks for meeting me the other day at whatever at Ferguson. Like, you know, go to industry events. You have a seat at that table. You're in the industry. Use it. Right. This is what I work on. I currently do xyz. I would love to get into this. I also think there's no shame in saying like, I really look up to you and what you do. What would it take to become a partner of yours? What is someone going to say to that? No, I'm not talking to you. They're going to, you know, they're going to be like, oh my gosh, thank you. Like that. I didn't know you knew my work. Right. I mean you need to know their work if you're going to say that. But I do. I still think it's kind of that human connection. It's just is humanizing what you do and it's, it's having a little bit of pre planning toward what your goal is. And at some point you're going to get a, you're going to get a chance and a shot. And if you're doing it for long enough and you, and it doesn't come up and you don't, then I think that's the opportunity to reevaluate. Is this really what I want? Do you know why haven't I. I've been called why? Maybe I'm not making time. It's have, it's having those kind of real conversations. But specs too. People ask me all the time, I swear, what, how can I get spec projects? It's like if I could figure out a formula and I could monetize that, I would be very rich woman. But it, it all starts with relationships because that is like the creme de la creme of projects is build project with no client. Right. And and again, I think it, it's. It's a relationship type of thing. You got to put in the work. You need to be confident. You need to be buttoned up and not buttoned up, like, you know, stuffy, just professional. And know what, what you bring to the table and why. And also take it, you know, on the chin if someone's like, yeah, you know, we have, I think the other thing we have a designer have. I have had such a before when. Right. We have long standing relationships and a new designer comes in and tries to say are new or old. Like, right. Tries to make a relationship. It's like, hey, everybody's happy here. Find your person. But everybody's happy here, right? And there is a person and a. And a relationship for everyone. And I think finding that person is, is what you should focus on if.
[00:48:18] Speaker B: That'S a goal for those listening. We also have on the show this season, Tyler Farrell from Killer Wing Construction. The entire episode is talking about what to bring to a builder, if you're trying to get in with a builder. So I'll make sure that that's linked in the show notes so that you can get kind of the specifics from the builder side of things. But it's great to hear just how aligned you two are on what it takes and what you can show up with. So thank you so much for digging into that. I'd love to move on and talk about your trademarked phrase of organic desert living, which has grown as your style has shifted and more importantly, really refined. What I think is so exciting about it is that under this brilliantly marketed umbrella that you built of that trademark, your team has a very clear aesthetic. I can usually spot one of your projects amongst others, yet you're also innovating within that. And I think that that is a really admirable quality and something that's really challenging to do. How did that branding and narrowing down your style help with expanding business and getting those more elevated clients?
[00:49:31] Speaker A: Thank you so much for all those kind words. I love to know it's working, so thank you. I told a story at Design Camp about how early in my career there was someone in my life who told me that my work all looked the same, every project looked the same. And I was horribly offended. Like, horribly offended. It sent me into, like, a deep, dark hole for, like, me. Until I had this epiphany and I was like, why? Why is that a bad thing? Why is she trying to shoot shade at me? Because all my work looks the same. My work doesn't. Look the same, but it's consistent. And I appreciate that people know that I'm an expert in my aesthetic. I don't think that being a jack of all trades is something that anyone would want in just about any industry. Like, I don't want you to know a little bit a lot. I want you to know a lot about a little. So that if I'm looking for this aesthetic, I know who to go to. Right? Like, there's a reason why dentists aren't pediatricians. Like, they're. It's a focus. And the more we focus, it just all compounds and gets better and better, in my opinion. And so it was just like an insta shift for me. And I was like, you know what? Not only am I not going to be really just annoyed that this person tried to cut me completely down and tell me that all my work looks the same. I'm gonna. I'm gonna trademark it. I'll figure out what to call this little thing that I have here, and I'm gonna trademark it. And so it has become, I would say, our mission statement, as silly as that sounds. And I never thought in a million years I would be able to use three words as a mission statement. And I'm sure there's some, you know, great branding and marketing guru and people business guru that says that's totally wrong, and that's fine. But for us, it has been a guiding force. It's always what we come back to. It's always. Even the way it's written. There's. There's just. There's like this gravitational pull to organic desert living that when I. If I even have to ask myself, is that. Is that us? I'm like, well, that's my answer. If I. If I. If I'm questioning if whatever we're doing is us, and it could be a marketing campaign, it could be. It could be a collection that we're launching. It could be furniture. It could be a build. It could. It could be buying alignment. Right? Like, do we think the same things are beautiful? I don't think she wants organic desert women. I think she wants. Try Becca. Playful. Like, I don't know how to do that, you know, Or. Or do we. And I also think that it gives us an opportunity to look at characteristics, because I think that phrase, in general, we want it to invoke a feeling, but it also carries aesthetic weight. Right? And it allows us to say whatever that aesthetic calculator is, whatever that weight is, can what our client and what they want. Can they? And sometimes I'll be honest with you, Sauce. Sometimes I feel like we're going, like, really far into client world. And then other projects, I feel like they're coming really far into our world of organic desert living. But it always turns out just really rooted in a few key characteristics. And I think the one word that is always used to describe our work is natural and effortless. We. We really try to make sure that it feels natural, that it is natural, and that it's effortless. 99% of our clients are families. We also do not stage homes for photography. For the most part, our. Our photos are shot in finished spaces that our clients live in. So they. We install them, all of it stays, and they move in and live their beautiful life. So. And I've always just really believed in that. And I'm not saying that you can't do it another way. You should. You should find any opportunity and way to shoot your beautiful work, whether or not you have furnishings or. Or your client aligns with that. But for us, I've always felt like I want to give whoever's seeing our work a true. Like, in my brain. That's how it works. It's a. It's a camera, it's a shutter. Slow speed, capturing what that room feels like to live it. And I think that that is probably one of the reasons why organic desert living has been so successful and that our clients really buy into it. I also think it's wildly fluid. It's. It's like, are we. Are we more boho today? Sure. This client wants to be more boho. Are we more playful? Like, we have. We have, like, exacerbated the use of color lately. I'm like, does it come in pink? Yeah.
[00:53:35] Speaker B: What?
[00:53:36] Speaker A: And I'm like, I want it pink. And then I'm like, well, let's mix it with, like, some ivory. I feel like we could do this, right? Is this what she wants? And so we've been able to, like, flex these muscles in design that if you would have asked me five years ago if I would be wearing a red hat, I pull red nail pole. I hate the color red, but I don't know, like, somehow we've been able to keep it open and, like, ride those trends, but still really earthy, really natural. And I think having that foundation that is, like, you know, thickest thieves, strongest ice is what allows us to kind of build up if we want to and, like, really go eccentric or come down and go very minimalist. And, like, it's just a good barometer that always delivers for us, I think.
[00:54:15] Speaker B: To expand on organic desert living, you've proven that it is a full lifestyle brand. And I'd love to talk about kind of the other sides of the business. Retail is a huge portion of your business. It's a huge portion of your personal brand as well. And I just find it so fascinating how you've been able to master very attainable, beautifully curated things while still selling to the most elite clients in your design services. So let's talk retail a little bit. Over the last six years, you had opened up three retail locations and an E Commerce, our store. When shopping for your accessories and final touches for your actual design clients, are you shopping directly from your store inventory or are you sourcing elsewhere? And retail is its own beast.
[00:55:04] Speaker A: Yes. Our retail arm and our design arm are two different arms. They, they really are two different companies. If our design team wants to procure from our retail store, which of course we encourage, that's the easiest, quickest, right. Dotted line. But they, they really do go on the front end of our website and place them and use a code and it zeros out. And then we obviously invoice our client on the back end for it. But I can also tell you, like, gosh, let's say we have a $50,000 styling budget. I'd say 10 comes from our internal store. And that is because the retail client is not the same as our full service design client. They're not. And there is some crossover. Right. Like I just discussed with Organic Desert Living and that, that whole concept, but they're not the same client. And every project doesn't fit into what we have in our 5000
[email protected] or in our brick and mortars. We need more than that. We have to be, we have to have way more resources than what we have in just, let's call it those 5,000 SKUs, which is kind of crazy because when you think about it, I'm like, you can't find a candlestick from us in 5000 SKUs. And then it's like, well, yeah, I bought all of our candlesticks, but we only have 20. And like, for a project like this, I need 50. And it, it really is true. Right? So variety is one I think is really important. I never want to be restrained on the design project side based on what is selling in our store. And maybe that's wrong. I have had business person before tell me that that's totally wrong and I should abandon that. And everything should come from a lifestyle code because there are others in this industry that do that. And I'm like, see, I don't want that. Like, I. No, I don't want that. I want to be able to have a wide range of procuring and curating anything that that project or our client needs. And I personally feel that what makes it smarter to business decision is knowing what will sell to our retail customer versus what our design client wants. And we know they're not the same. And so for those reasons, we do, we run them very different.
[00:57:00] Speaker B: Okay. As we get ready to wrap up, I want to dig into your brain as to how you've been able to maintain a single marketing strategy in the sense of a single Instagram account. Now, I know two years ago you separated your own personal brand out about ish, but the retail side of things and the design side of things still live under the lifestyle code. And I've heard you now multiple times in the last couple of minutes just say that they are definitely different clients that you're speaking to. As someone who works with our clients at Edeco Studio and Quinn, we're always saying you need to pick your target person and speak directly to them. How have you been so successful in having two target clients in the same account?
[00:57:48] Speaker A: I think it depends on, on what you measure as success. Right. I separated my personal brand, Gosh, it was actually five years ago, so it's been a long time, but it's been five years. Oh my gosh.
And I know, truly. And, and the reason why I did it was because I, I wanted to always have a voice outside of the lifestyle code. It is my baby, but it's not who I am. It's not right. And, and so it was always really important to me. And with me as the founder, I mean, goodness, I didn't know this, but like now founder led content is what we're looking for. Right? And so I have such a unique opportunity to funnel and cross promote and talk about what I want to talk about in my voice and make sure that the lifestyle co and our brand voice is different. And we all know brand accounts are dead. Right? And so, so I think one of the things that we really tried to focus on is just being human, remaining human behind what we do, I don't know all the time. And I'll be totally honest with you that, that it is successful. I think that there are some times and data has shown us in our analytics and insights that 85% of the Internet only wants to hear from us if we're talking about design. The other 15% is happy. I'd say the other 10% is happy to do both. And then there's like 5% that only want. Want to see fashion from us. And so, like, those numbers are staggering. So I would say, I do think that if it was maybe as easy as it was 10 years ago when I started that account to branch off and have organic growth, maybe we would separate them, but it's just not like that anymore. And so the opportunity cost, the point of entry to have any amount of organic impact in trying to identify that customer on both, let's call it fashion, clothing, accessories, and home decor. We have to always be working toward a lifestyle client, customer, viewer, right, user, and figure out how to service them rather than thinking about them independently. Because we haven't tailored our channel to do that. We have to talk to them as if they're one person. And I don't always think it works, but for us, just because of the time that we have in, we have to make it work. And I do think we do it in a way that feels human. And I think the best way we do that is. I always say, I tell my team, like, I hate. I hate that.
[01:00:07] Speaker B: I don't like that.
[01:00:08] Speaker A: That's not, it's not speaking to me like, I'm a 40 something, like my, this company and this brand has grown and grown up like I have. And it's interesting. Our demographic is 25 to 52. That's a huge number. Like, a huge number. So, you know, our, our design or our marketing team will show me something. I'm like, I don't get it. They're like, it's TikTok. And I'm like, is it though? Do we have to. And they're like, well, we need to be relevant on TikTok. And I'm like, but I have an Instagram girl. I don't like that. And they're like, just let me like, okay. And then it does super well, right? And then you're like, super. They were right. But then other times it does, I think Instagram and, and just social in general right now. And I, I would assume you probably feel the same. It is such a crapshoot. You got to ride that wave in whatever is working for you. Keep doing it. As soon as it stops working for you, change it. And like, I, I truly feel like the, the energy that is social has to kind of be never ending if you want to use it, because, you know it's just going to keep changing. You're never going to master it and, and paying attention. To what the data says. Trying to make data related decisions is going to service you best when you're.
[01:01:17] Speaker B: Speaking of data related decisions. And you saw 10 reels had a common theme and they all really performed well. But those reels were. I'm not saying that this is it because it's probably actually the opposite, but you guys do a really cute segment of all the girls walking in and what they're wearing to the office.
[01:01:36] Speaker A: Office fits. Yeah.
[01:01:37] Speaker B: And what happens when you see what's working does not align with your vision of how you want the company presented. Like for instance for me if I did that, the girls on my team would be like, what the heck are you talking about? Like we are not doing like fiction posts every day. Like that is not. What does that have to do with websites and branding. But it's like, well, it's working. Where as the founder do you draw the line as to this still feels on brand even if it's not directly selling. Come schedule a consultation call for your new build project.
[01:02:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I get that. I think the Internet is a wild place and I think we are lucky to be able to flow. Like I always say. Like I already said ride that way. Like I don't think you need a license to show a little bit of personality as long as it's in a thoughtful way. And if your brand. Right. I hope words that resonate with our brand are approachable but luxurious. Right. Like we are. We're an approachable group. Like we always feel like we're cheap bitches. Like we. I love a thousand dollar chair from CB2. I also will literally drop $5,000 on a slab without even thinking twice about it. Because I'm like, that's marble and we have that. And. And there's obviously a lot of ebb and flow and range between that. But I kind of feel the same way. In social media it's like we are all such. We're just like this great big onion, all of us. And some days we pull back a lot more design onion. And other days we pull back like we all cute today. Like let's put this on the Internet.
[01:03:12] Speaker B: And.
[01:03:12] Speaker A: And we do that. We're that onion, you know, and like I love Halloween. So we're gonna talk about Halloween. And. And I do think as the social climate has changed you you can be less rigid but use trend opportunities, small glimpses in time to make an impact without it defining you. Right. So I always think like if someone just saw this reel, what the hell would they think about the lifestyle? And there are A few that I'm like, what the hell would they think about the lifestyle co if this is the reel that they landed on to find us? And then I'm like, but as long as we can get them to our profile and they can see all of the supporting data, information, content that we have that shows who we are, they'll quickly know, oh my God, that was a fun cliche. Or like that was a fun little trend on trend, trending audio, whatever. They actually design really beautiful house and they have a brick and mortar and they love their employees and. Right. And so I think it's like, it's kind of like the first date, whichever one they click on. And then hopefully the second date is we're at the profile. It's branded beautifully. It all makes sense somehow. There are consistencies in aesthetic, I think. Right. You hit them like real quick with some very similar consistencies. I feel like all of our content somewhat speaks to each other. Hopefully we're not all over the place. I would love for you to tell me off camera, but. So I think that, I think that's how we do it. I try not to overthink it, but if I ever really do feel like something is just too far off, I'm like, I'm sorry, it's too far for me. You can post that on your own account. And they're like, fine.
[01:04:42] Speaker B: Well, Kristen, that was expertly answered. I really appreciate that and I know that that was a pop quiz you weren't expecting. So thank you for your cand answer. I know you are off to another call, so thank you so much for joining us. It was incredibly insightful. The way you run your business, the way you handle your team is super inspiring and I think all of us have something to learn from you, whether we're a solo show or we have grand plans to grow a team. So thank you so much for being here.
[01:05:11] Speaker A: Thank you so much. I will come back anytime. You make it so easy.
[01:05:14] Speaker B: I will talk to you very soon, I'm sure. Take care of her st take care of things.
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[email protected] theInteriorCollection thank you so, so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. The biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible. Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living.
