[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Hey everyone and welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey and today I'm sitting down with Trish Lynn, founder and principal designer of Colette Interiors, a full service residential studio based in Chatham, New Jersey. I want to ask you something though before we get into this episode. When you are thinking of your next hire, what do you picture? Is it someone fresh out of design program? Someone who's already worked at another firm, or someone whose portfolio you can scroll through in depth?
But what if the best person for the job has actually never held a design title in their life? Trish Lynn has built a six person studio in one of the most competitive residential markets in the country. And she did so by hiring people with backgrounds in editorial, teaching, nursing and finance alongside her design team. Before she launched Colette Interior, she spent years in the corporate world, which meant she came to team with something most designers have to figure out entirely on their own. A real framework for what makes a person the right fit and the confidence to look for it outside the obvious places. In today's episode, we are unpacking all of it. What those non traditional backgrounds actually contribute to a design studio. How Trish hires for the qualities that don't show up in a portfolio. How she onboard someone into a creative process when they're coming from a completely different industry. And how she leads in a way that makes people want to stay. If you've ever felt like you are hiring from a very small pool or like every hire you've made has been a version of yourself, this conversation is going to open something up for you.
If you are still the one holding your projects together, there is a better way. Materio is the project delivery system built specifically for interior designers. One connected workflow from concepts to handoff to billing and to your Collective listeners get 50% off their free
[email protected].
hello Trish, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you on and I'm so excited for today's topic. I was just telling you how much this topic means to me and how important I think it is in the industry. So thank you for being our mastermind behind it.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: Thank you for having me. I agree. I think this is such an important topic and it has been vital in the success of our firm. So I'm excited to share a little bit more about it today.
[00:02:28] Speaker A: Well, let's go ahead and dig right in because I'd love to hear a bit of your origin story. With Colette Interiors, you had a full career in the corporate world. Before making the move into interior design, which is not a super foreign concept for a lot of our listeners, there's many people who have done so and so I'd love to just get a quick background of what made you make that transition.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. I think it has to go way back. As a kid, I wanted to be an architect.
I have like my whole art portfolio that I, you know, worked on throughout my childhood. And I actually started college as a psychology major and an art minor, which is just kind of serendipitous because now I feel like I like then I. My, my dad really encouraged me to switch to business. He felt like it was more practical. And I did. I switched to business. But now it's serendipitous in the fact that I think there is this merging of like, my job is part business, part creative and part therapy.
So it has come full circle. But I did, I was in corporate for about 12 years.
I worked in digital ad sales. And I feel like a lot of like the business aspects of, of having that corporate opportunity are really relevant in my everyday life now.
But it was just in determining, like wanting a creative shift essentially to be pursuing something that was really ultimately like my passion from the beginning. And that was what propelled me to start Colette Interiors in 2016.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: Well, dad was not wrong because I know there's so many people listening who went to school for design and then they're like, I wish I had some sort of business background.
So it is amazing to see how full circle it all comes around too though. But you're totally right about being a therapist as well. So your psychology background is super helpful as you're managing these huge projects that you are. So talk to us about what your studio looks like today. The team structure, project volume, just kind of give us a baseline of what we can understand that Colette Interiors is at.
[00:04:40] Speaker B: Sure. So there's four time full employees and that's inclusive of me. And then we have two part time employees in home design team that they essentially handle a lot more of like design consultation where it's not meeting the threshold of being what I consider deemed to be full service.
I also have a part time operations manager and a design intern.
[00:05:09] Speaker A: Amazing. Okay, and then what's your sweet spot of like how many projects you guys are holding? You have. You've already established that you break them up into kind of two categories, full service and then on that more consultation side, what's like a sweet spot of project load for you?
[00:05:24] Speaker B: Yeah. So the, the independent consultation is not at all within like the firm's wheelhouse, but the firm, I would say we're managing on average about 12 full home projects at a time. Wow. And 9 out of 10 of them are construction based.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: That's a lot for a team that size. You guys are busy.
Talk to me within that team as to what your role in the business looks like today.
[00:05:53] Speaker B: Sure. So I mean from a design perspective, we are all involved on every single client project. And so I'm overseeing that design process. I think that every single one of the full time senior designers brings something different to the table. And it's amazing to collaborate from a design standpoint point.
But then there's the execution piece of it. And I do assign a dedicated project manager who's also a senior designer on every single project.
So there's somebody who's going to be overseeing like essentially once the client's making their selections and they're approving a design process, that project manager is running point in the field with the contractor managing all the logistics, managing procurement.
I am involved on every single project.
So I'm overseeing every single project in, you know, with that project manager, when
[00:06:49] Speaker A: you say that you're overseeing because I think that your studio's built and structured really similarly to where a lot of our listeners are, it's like a similar size, a similar scale. When you say you're overseeing them, who's handling the day to day client communication? How much facetime with a client are you actually getting? Because I think that that's where a lot of designers get caught up. It's like I have a lead, I have a project manager. Where does my, where do my clients expect to see me involved in that?
[00:07:18] Speaker B: So I have the project manager handle as much communication as possible. And that has been like a learning curve for me. And it was kind of like this push and pull of like me letting go of some control and giving them more autonomy.
But I have so much trust in my team and so I try and push 90% of the communication on them.
I am involved in the communication that I feel is mission critical to come from me where I feel like they need my, you know, me to weigh in on, whether it's just an opinion or troubleshooting or anything like that.
From an on site perspective, it's the same rules apply. There are certain things where I'm like, this is an absolute must for me to be on site. And then there are other things which are like my, one of my designers did an electrical walkthrough today without me and it's fine so it really just, it just depends. And I feel like it's just become like a little bit more of an instinct of me knowing when I need to be involved.
[00:08:28] Speaker A: Yeah. How much of that do you think depends on the client and your instinct knowing what the client needs and also the instinct of knowing what the process is.
[00:08:37] Speaker B: A hundred percent, 100%. Because every homeowner works differently and we try and be super agile to their needs because this is a big life event. Like I always say, it's. It's getting married, it's having a baby, and it's like building a dream house. Right. And so I want to be really sensitive to what the client needs. And so I feel like the entire team does a really good job of understanding what that particular client is expecting and whether or not we need to do a little bit more, like more facetime, more phone calls, whatever it is. So we are really agile in that perspective.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Amazing. And you know that I'm going to ask Trish. So how do you currently structure your fees? Is it flat rate, hourly? A hybrid? I ask everybody and I just. It. It's always different.
[00:09:29] Speaker B: Hybrid. So we're hybrid and Renee at Tandem was the. She's amazing. But she pushed us towards this hybrid model after at, you know, how we structure our business.
And it honestly has been the best thing for us. So the way we approach it is like two phases.
It's the design phase, which is essentially the time from when, you know, you sign our contract until we're in fully approved design plans. That is flat fee.
And then, and it's, it's often based on a combination of like square footage as well as like historically similar size projects. And it's something my operations manager helps me to manage, which is amazing.
Then once we're getting into the execution piece of it, and this is the construction documentation, the on sites, the procurement, all the logistical aspects of the projects, we move to an hourly model.
[00:10:31] Speaker A: Amazing. Okay. I love that model. I encourage that model and I definitely feel like that model is becoming, I hate to say more of a standard, but I am hearing more and more people be like, okay, I've tried hourly. I have the data for hourly.
But right now, whether it's like market based or just like client and project scope based, that having some sort of a flat fee up front for the design seems to protect your own proprietary knowledge and skillset while also allowing the client to really budget for it. So fantastic. Thank you for breaking that down for me. I really want to get into your corporate background as like your leadership Foundation. As we talk about your team and the diversity that you brought to it when you were building your team, how consciously were you drawing on your corporate experience? Like, because it's such a different ship to be guiding, was it something that you were deliberately applying or was it something you recognized more in hindsight after you started putting the team together?
[00:11:35] Speaker B: I think it was more hindsight based.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: Honestly.
[00:11:39] Speaker B: A lot of like my hiring process was just driven by intuition and like the, you know, my, my core team, my full time team, like the way I saw them in their interviews was me when I was their age or, or just me in general. And like just their drive, their, their confidence, their creativity, all of that. And so I think it was more of a hindsight type of thing.
[00:12:09] Speaker A: What do you think you really brought over from your corporate background that allowed you to potentially skip some of the hiccups that people are typically learning as managers and team leaders through trial and error?
[00:12:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's a really good question.
I definitely think the ability to delegate, the ability to multitask and stay super organized like this is, this field is just as much logistical as it is creative, I think. Identifying strengths in the team. Right. And so understanding who has the strongest communication skills, pairing certain personalities with certain clientele.
Yeah, I think just the team management piece of it. Honestly, this isn't my first time managing a team and so that has helped tremendously.
[00:13:11] Speaker A: What do you think in hindsight? What do you think that your corporate background and the team management skill set could help you teach other designers as well? If you had to like, pick one thing that you're like, this was the most valuable thing to focus on when, when we're talking about team management. What do you think it would be for designers who are listening?
[00:13:35] Speaker B: I think it's instilling confidence and trust in your team members because like, I look back at my favorite bosses or my best mentors and those were, those were people who fully trusted the process in me and even when I wasn't even sure if I trust myself in the process and they gave me the confidence to really grow in my job and that's what I'm really working towards with everyone on the team.
[00:14:07] Speaker A: Can we get into specifics about your leadership practices in particular? For instance? I think that I hear just in my own personal conversations with friends who are in the industry that the leadership part can be the most challenging and the part that feels most emotional to them.
How, how do you set expectations and how are you providing feedback to, to really structure accountability?
How often are you Talking with your team, how are you, how are you setting boundaries that like really allow you to clearly be the leader while also, like you said, trusting them and delegating to them, allowing them to do their own job?
[00:14:49] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a really good question. I mean I think trust is earned, right? And so it's in the beginning it's communicating what the expectations are and that's something that we are doing during the onboarding process.
And then if there's, you know, we go off the, if we take a fork off the road a little bit and I feel like there was a misstep, I am going to communicate that to them.
But I also give, I give them a lot of autonomy. You know, we work from home on Fridays, but constantly checking in, I can see what's being done and not being done just based off of like what I know is everyone's workload.
We're communicating through, when we are remote, we're communicating through Microsoft Teams all the time.
We do a Monday status every single Monday, which is usually hours long, where we're just going through all of the client work and what my expectations are in terms of what is going to be done on that client work and, and what we're going to be communicating.
So there's a lot of conversation when
[00:15:56] Speaker A: you said like, you know, the times that it always happens when something goes kind of off the rails a little bit and you communicate to them.
The trouble I've heard people having most often right now is, is their kind of like fear of conflict and conflicts can have such like a negative connotation. It can feel like, oh, it means like there's this huge flight. But really it's just, you know, this was a mistake and this is what I think we need to do to correct it. Can you coach us through a little bit of how you actually deliver that news? Do you prefer for it to be written? Is it a conversation that happens privately? Do you like it over a call? How was like, how have you found the best way to deliver those back on track conversations?
[00:16:39] Speaker B: I am not a confrontational person and so for me email is easier.
Email is easier. But it also took me a while to get to a point where I felt like I could course correct because I was avoiding conflict. But there were also people that I had working for me that I allowed too much to go on for far too long and realized that like all I was doing was hurting myself in hindsight. And so even just these small missteps doing a quick course correction, I'm finding that like they don't take it personally. I feel like I'm not resentful about something that's being left unsaid and that it has just made us grow better in being collaborative team members.
[00:17:24] Speaker A: I think the email is such a good step for people to consider taking that you can remove a lot of the emotion behind it. And also logistically, having that written track record of, yes, this was addressed back then. I think also as a business owner, those are important things to have. So thank you so much. When.
When we're looking at the flip side, are there any habits around managing people that you found just did not translate over to this creative environment? Going from, you know, a corporate role to a startup, essentially, that you've had to, like, consciously leave behind and be like, got it. That doesn't land.
[00:18:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I think being in a corporate environment. Right. And so, like, everyone had their own lane. When you're working at a company like Yahoo, like you were, it's very clear, like, what your role is and what the expectation is. We are jacks of all trade, and there are no divas around here. I never get my nails done, and it's because I'm opening package just like, like everybody else. And so I'm expecting that everyone's gonna be willing to do pretty much anything and also pick up for other team members who might be drowning. And we all do.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: I love that.
So, okay, let's talk about your philosophy behind hiring your team includes people with backgrounds from editorial, teaching, nursing, finance.
Not a whole lot of backgrounds that are, like, super heavily in the design field. Was intentional. Has that evolved organically? And what's your, like, method behind that?
[00:19:00] Speaker B: Not intentional at all. Completely organic. And there's. It's essentially 50. 50.
So right now there's three trained designers who went to design school. And then the. The rest of the team are from different backgrounds, like the backgrounds that you shared in. And honestly, it was really back to my intuition of seeing what they brought to the table.
There's so much that's involved, you know, beyond creativity or having the technical skills of being a design school. There's, you know, the communication that a teacher brings to the table, or obviously the intuition that a financial background brings to the table.
And all of those things are so super relevant because this is running a business. It's not just creative all the time.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: Okay. So I talk a lot on the show about making sure that when you're hiring for a role, you're hiring someone who really wants that role or that that ladder of a role, for instance, Hiring operations. Make sure that the operations person you're hiring doesn't want to be a designer so that they can really thrive in what they're doing. And you're not shifting people around on your design team a lot.
What does someone with, for instance, an editorial background bring to a design studio that a classically trained design or might not and where. What are some examples of the value that you've really found to be true in that instance?
[00:20:29] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So I think an editorial person, it was a natural storyteller. Right. So they're super creative and they're able to almost weave together a vision, like an overall vision when, when we're doing the design process for a house. Because I think there's a lot of like silos of the way we're putting together a design presentation. But, but overall you need to tell this like fully immersive and comprehensive story that has some like continuity from one space to the next. And that would be, you know, what I'd say is so natural from that background.
[00:21:06] Speaker A: Okay. And the other one that I found so compelling is teaching. What qualities does someone trained as a teacher really carry into client facing or project management work that you found so valuable inside of your studio? I know you mentioned like communication, but what does that mean? Like from a client's perspective?
[00:21:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean communication, masters of communication I think teachers are. And like there's just, I think it's really super important to set expectations for the client, but also to give really solid recaps.
So it's something where I'm trying to make sure that our, all of our project managers are giving clients regular updates with expectations on like ordering process or procurement, with recaps of, on sites that have taken place with challenges that we might be facing with the builder and communicating what we're doing to, you know, to mitigate it with them.
So I did, I think the more communication in this industry, the better.
[00:22:11] Speaker A: I think one of the ones that surprises people and I think this is such like a golden nugget is someone coming from a medical background, a nursing background.
But it surprises people because it feels like worlds apart. How do you feel like that actually translates into moving a project through construction?
[00:22:27] Speaker B: Oh, they're, I mean they are project managers. Right. They've been doing fundamental project management in their entire career. And so understanding the process, the next steps related to that process, the accountability along the way, it's just such a natural fit.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: How do you screen for these qualities? In an interview you said that everything's been super organic. It's Been your gut.
But I know that a lot of people have hired someone based on their gut, and they liked them so much. And whether it was three months down the road or a year down the road, soon their gut was like, this isn't the right fit. Or, what are some tips you have for kind of those gut checks and screening and interviews?
[00:23:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think it's the same thing. And listen, I've had. I've had my own, you know, challenges, but I've learned and grown over the years, and I think it's almost the same thing as when you're screening a client.
[00:23:28] Speaker A: Right.
[00:23:28] Speaker B: Like, if you.
Of course, there's an intuition based. But it's like, if it's a kind of rocky first date, it's probably gonna be a kind of rocky relationship, and you should, you know, really check your gut with that.
But also, I have learned to grow that I'm not gonna, like back to the conversation about avoiding confrontation. Right. Like, I'm not gonna allow something that might have been just a miscalculation of my own on a personality fit. I'm not gonna allow that to go on if I, you know, did make the wrong decision.
[00:24:05] Speaker A: You hear so much the saying of higher, slow, fire, fast. And I. I fundamentally believe it. But as a business owner, it can be really difficult. Letting someone go is just, like, the worst ever.
Whether that's moving them to a different role and, like, setting them up for success or having to go ahead and part ways.
What do you feel is a common thread and what you're looking for for people at Colette Interiors that no matter what the role is, proves to be a core value for you?
[00:24:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I think creativity, of course.
I think willingness to just be helpful and wanting.
Just having a drive, trusting the process, respecting the clients, and understanding, like, why this is such a big deal.
I think that, like, you really need to understand that, like, this is a big part of their lives, and it's a blessing that we're asked to be a part of it. And we need to just help guide them through some of the. The challenges that are building a home.
[00:25:31] Speaker A: I'm curious, based off of all the skill sets you've shared that your team embodies, who's doing your design presentations? You're talking about communication and being able to, like, tell the full story of the home. Are you always presenting? Do you have the leads presenting? Is it a combination?
[00:25:46] Speaker B: It's a combination thereof, I would say. I'm always sort of starting the design presentation and getting into those, like, more high Level concepts and you know, like architectural details or, or millwork plans.
We often start with the core of the home, which is the kitchen, which I'm usually driving. But then it really becomes more conversational as we get into the individual spaces and everyone's kind of weighing in and getting their POV and chiming in.
So it really is a collaborative process.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Going back to the hiring process.
When you're hiring someone fresh out of school or maybe they've been at one other studio and you know, they're not allowed to share their previous studio's work because they're like, you know, that was owned by the studio. What are other ways that you're able to really like see their talent and see their skill set during that interview process? To feel like this person can technically deliver what I'm looking for.
[00:26:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean we have always given mock projects to every single hire and so that's just a routine thing. And sometimes they're actually relevant to something we're working on. We're like, what would their take be on this?
And so we want them to do a design presentation.
It's often with some level of technical drawings, whether it's elevation based or renders based.
But I absolutely beyond their portfolio or their resume or the interview, I need to see like a real world example of how they would tackle a situation.
[00:27:27] Speaker A: And then just a logistics question on that. Do you handle that? Does do you like pay them a fee for that? Are you like this is just part of the application process. How do you handle?
[00:27:38] Speaker B: It's just part of the application process. And I'm not like having them go do the work and then going to present it to the client. I'm just curious.
Yeah, and sometimes it is a mock example.
[00:27:48] Speaker A: Perfect.
Okay, let's talk about onboarding and integration and bringing people onto the team. So once someone has joined the team, especially those people that were coming from outside of the industry, what does onboarding for a team member look like at Colette Interior?
[00:28:06] Speaker B: So yeah, so I mean we have processes in place, we have our project management system and there's of course like the internal conversations like our, you know, our weekly check ins and statuses that they're going to get immersed in right away. But I think the best way for a new hire to learn is in the field.
[00:28:26] Speaker A: Right.
[00:28:27] Speaker B: And so like you learn so much just in the application process of this, whether you're going on site and just listening in to what the GC or their subs are saying, whether it's sitting in a and client meetings, you know, internal meetings. I think just being in the execution phase of what design is is going to be when, you know, our new hires are absorbing the most information.
[00:28:53] Speaker A: So back to the top of the show. You were saying that designs flat rate and then you get into design execution, construction, management. That goes to hourly. So when you've onboarded someone and you are, you know, training them in the field, how are you handling that from an hour billing situation? Is it your time's being billed but not the hour that they're there? Is it they're the one who's actually on it. The training time is time that you eat up. How do you handle that? Because I know people get a little caught up on how do I charge a client for this when I'm training someone?
[00:29:27] Speaker B: When I'm training someone, I'm not charging for their time, so it's going to be for my time. Once they're, you know, I feel like they're fully trained and like they have the capacity to be doing communication independently. Yes, we'd be charging for both of our times, but not under the training watch.
[00:29:46] Speaker A: If you've been running your firm for a few years now, you've probably got a system in place, and I do use that term loosely. It's going to be a mix of apps, some spreadsheets, maybe a project management tool that was close but never quite right. And you are still the one holding it all together.
But here's the thing. Most tools were not built for the way interior designers actually deliver projects.
Materio was concept to handoff approvals to procurement to billing with QuickBooks sync built right in. One Connected Workflow Interior Collective listeners get 50% off their first month at getmaterio.com free for 14 days. No credit card required. That's M A T e r I o getmaterio.com can we talk about your processes? I know you said that you have, you know, clear processes set up. And so when someone comes in, it's like, okay, you're just going to jump right in because. Because you'll see how this runs.
Where do those processes live?
I know you said that you guys use Microsoft Teams for your communication. So I'm guessing that you are in the Microsoft world as far as how your processes are.
Have you set up a system where there's like a very clear checklist of like, this is how the project's moving through. Are you guys using Asana? How could someone on operation step into a project and know what happens in a studio without you literally being like, okay, XYZ comes next 10 times a day.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: Yeah. So we have documentation like you shared that we've developed that's proprietary for us in terms of sort of our internal processes that sit in Microsoft Teams as it relates to the client. We are on a project management system that my husband actually developed for me.
Oh yeah.
And that's how we handle all of our project management. So it's actually where we develop all of our checklists. It's where we have our FF and E schedules.
It's where we do all of our invoicings.
It's integrated directly with QuickBooks. We don't even go into QuickBooks. We do like all of our accounting in there. So that's how we're handling like just on a client level, project by project.
[00:31:53] Speaker A: Got it. So you are about to be bombarded with emails of people asking if they can buy your software that your husband developed for you. That sounds amazing.
Everybody's always looking for new design management software.
Yeah.
[00:32:06] Speaker B: And it's been great. I mean, it's our dinner table conversation. Right. And so. But I'm able to give them live and, you know, live feedback as to what's working and what's not.
[00:32:14] Speaker A: So how do you transfer your design standards and aesthetic sensibly to someone who's built their skills in a, in a different context? Whether that's coming from another studio.
How heavily do you weigh that their aesthetic aligns with you versus looking for someone who has a different eye?
[00:32:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I think you can really feel that out even just in the initial outreach. Like, you know, just in terms of like, wow, we saw this project on your website and it's so beautiful and oh my gosh, we love it. Like just knowing that they're actually looking at our aesthetic.
I feel like you, you get a real clear sense of that very early on. And I can do the same thing with. It's again with feeling out clients.
[00:33:05] Speaker A: Right.
[00:33:06] Speaker B: I can tell if there's a mism or we're not completely aligning from an esthetic standpoint or they're going to maybe be pushing me out of the boundary into a design realm that is not really my wheelhouse.
[00:33:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
Before we get into day to day delegation, which I think is so important because that's sometimes where people really struggle.
I'm curious how you got to this point of having the team that you've built, like what your first hire was as far as their role and how you got to the point of being able to set up this really clear system and process.
[00:33:45] Speaker B: Yeah, so my first hire is still with me. And she's amazing.
And she was straight out of design school.
But it has evolved. Like, there was a time where from a project management standpoint, I had the team hierarchy, but from a project management standpoint, we were all working on every single project and I felt like we were a mile wide and an inch deep. There was nobody who was like the true expert on anyone because we all had to know a little bit about everything and it wasn't working.
And so that was when we realigned to having this dedicated project manager. So now we're all, like I said, from a design standpoint, able to collaborate and I think bringing different strengths to the table. But really it's the project manager who's that owner, and they're managing it 90% of the time pretty independently of me. And then I'm coming in to weigh in and to oversee and to put, you know, to have input where we feel like it's mission critical.
[00:34:54] Speaker A: Can you expand on those mission critical points a little bit with specifically as to.
We have designers who are like, yes, I don't want to be or I cannot be like the point person on every project anymore. So we have a project manager or some people's lead designers are doing that. That where.
How do you set your team up for success when you're like, you are in charge of this, but I'm also going to step in at certain points. Where are those points and how do you communicate that so that they feel like they have autonomy and they know where. When they're carrying the ball.
[00:35:27] Speaker B: Yeah. So I would say, you know, I'm still on every email or getting a recap from every on site. So I'm aware of what's going on.
They're open with me when they feel like you need to follow up on this independently or I need you.
But there's also an email can come through and I'm like, oh, that's a me question.
And there's just sort of this understanding and like, we'll just touch base, you know, the project manager and I independently. And I'll be like, I got it. I'll reply. Because I know it's something that I need to reply to.
You know, I think of an example from this morning. One of our homeowners is making a really big window purchase and there's a lot of questions back and forth. And we've been going, you know, we've been talking about this for a long time and he had a very good question on one of the windows that were on the Order. And I felt like, okay, this is for me to weigh in. It's a historical home. It's a huge investment. I need to let them know, like, what my POV is.
[00:36:30] Speaker A: Perfect. And when it comes to the creative aspect, can we talk through that workflow. Workflow a little bit more? Because you mentioned, like, you are often really leading the heart of the home in the kitchen from a creative standpoint, Are you creative directing and handing that off to the designer to tackle, or are you really just overseeing what. What is produced and making tweaks from that standpoint?
[00:36:58] Speaker B: Yeah, so I'm more overseeing what is produced and making tweaks from that standpoint. So we do delegate responsibility within a.
Because I think, like, for a bathroom design, it's really difficult for, like, five hands to be in a bathroom.
So I'm having everyone sort of work on their individual spaces. And then there's the spaces that. That are the larger parts of the home that will tackle more collaboratively. And then I am looking at the presentation as a whole and basically weighing on. Weighing in on what I think is missing. Where I think there's, like, a, you know, a missing link to the story or where I might want some revisions.
[00:37:42] Speaker A: How. This is a question I've enjoyed asking this season. In particularly, how much lead time are you asking your designers to have something for you to review prior to the client presentation day? Like, how much time?
As someone who's overseeing, do you want to know that I'll have time to make changes, or is it, like, you know, two days out? If there's anything we tweak that happens,
[00:38:07] Speaker B: it's two to three weeks. I need two to three weeks.
Yeah, for sure. But I would say, like, we do look and feel presentations, which I know a lot of other designers do as well.
And after our look and feel, it is an opportunity for the team and I to, like, just sort of reconvene on. Okay, what are we taking out of this? And, like, what is the general direction?
And, you know, are we going to be putting that tile into that bathroom? Because they couldn't stop looking at it. And, like, are we. You know, these color palettes, are we. So we're. We're getting on the same page at that point, and I think it sets the expectations from what I'm expecting with the design presentation. So when we're getting to a point that's two to three weeks out, and I'm reviewing it, I'm expecting there's not going to be a lot that's required in the way of revisions. And honestly, there are. Aren't. Typically, I just like to have time with it so that, like, you know, I'm getting. Just absorbing the information and of course, like, getting prepared for presentation day.
[00:39:09] Speaker A: Yes. So that you have the information you need to be able to present it and tell that story.
Okay. I know you said a lot of designers do these look and feel presentations.
Can we break that down? Because I don't think it's something people talk about enough. And I'd love to hear, like, what does that actually entail? Where is that in the process, from contract signing to homework to full presentation? I want to hear about these.
[00:39:33] Speaker B: Yes. So I would say typically we're trying to do a look and feel within about four weeks of a signed contract.
And our look and feels are very heavily imagery based, of course. Right. The design presentation is too. But it's more conceptual, but. But it's an opportunity for them to look at these images by space and react to them. But it's also very material driven. And so we have our meeting table. We put out tons of different materials. We want to show them all these different walnut cabinetry samples. We want to show them every version of brass.
They like brass. Okay. Do you want aged brass? Antique brass? Do you want it to patina? This is what it's going to look like.
Different tiles, different countertops.
Really just a range of color palettes. And we're getting the reaction and we're taking lots of notes.
[00:40:31] Speaker A: Okay, great. And then after you've had that meeting, how long, assuming that we're talking about, like, full home, how long before you go from look and feel to official presentation?
[00:40:43] Speaker B: Probably somewhere in the range of four to six weeks. Weeks.
But we typically do break our presentations out into, like, the construction piece and then soft selections because it's too overwhelming to present everything all at once. Like, I think two hours feels like the limit on presentations, where everybody starts, like, zoning out.
[00:41:08] Speaker A: Got it. And. But the look and feel presentation is covering conceptually everything from hard surfaces to soft furnishings as well. It's like the whole look and feel.
[00:41:19] Speaker B: It is. Yes. Yes.
[00:41:20] Speaker A: Okay, great. Next question. Trish, thank you so much.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on how you've gotten to the point of being so comfortable truly delegating creative decisions and trusting the outcome. A lot of designers who have their studios like that is the one part that they're like, I don't want to delegate that. I can't delegate that.
And sure, every studio should be set up differently and what works for them, but how did you get to a point where you were comfortable with letting your team leads. Lead and you coming in and seeing things when it's pretty developed?
[00:41:57] Speaker B: Yeah, it took time. Honestly, it was hard to relinquish the control because it is your baby.
It's a business that you've overseen.
[00:42:05] Speaker A: But.
[00:42:06] Speaker B: But honestly, it was in seeing that when I gave that and I delegated these projects and was able to give away that control to other people, that their approach to things was different than mine, but sometimes better.
And so understanding that, like, okay, they have a different point of view on this, and they may have a fresh perspective that I don't have.
And so it's knowing that, like, they're from a collaborative standpoint. It's just better when we all have a piece of this from, you know, just an input perspective.
[00:42:47] Speaker A: I think also one of the things, once you get to the comfort level of trusting and delegating creatively, the reward you feel of, like, seeing it actually come to fruition when you're the one who's really. You're running the business and you have so many other things to do to get to delegate that and actually see, oh, my gosh, the ideas came to life. I think that being able to focus more on how exciting that is and it actually happening versus you were pulled a million directions and now something, you know, you're running out of time and you didn't get to, like, fully create what you had first envisioned, I think is one of the greatest rewards of being comfortable with delegating creative projects completely.
[00:43:30] Speaker B: Completely.
[00:43:31] Speaker A: Okay, let's talk about team retention, because that seems to be something that a lot of people really struggle with when they're running a small studio. Designers go off and open their own studios. They go off to another, bigger studio.
What have you found actually keeps strong people committed and engaged over time since you are still employing your very first hire years later.
[00:43:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, so I haven't had a situation yet where someone has gone off and gone to and, you know, open their own design firm or gone to another design firm. I've been so blessed with a loyal team, but I think, again, it comes back to, like, something I learned in my. My own corporate career. Instilling the trust and the confidence in them that they're able to do this has been, like, just a huge component, I think, to their success and the retention that I've had and being like, go, you. You got this. And then really, like, celebrating their wins because they're wins for me too. But I am honestly so proud of the entire team and all the hard work that they do.
[00:44:43] Speaker A: What do you think makes someone feel like this is is my long term career working at Colette Interiors versus this is my current job that I love.
What have you built foundationally from a culture perspective? Maybe it's from a compensation perspective that makes someone feel like I'm building this with Trish and this is something I'm moving forward with with her, versus this is a stepping stone.
A great, wonderful stepping stone. But a stepping stone, I think, just
[00:45:18] Speaker B: keeping the lines of communication super open and having them feel comfortable to approach me about a conversation. And I do think that I have been approachable. I'm super flexible. I'm super flexible about everybody's personal lives, about working from home, because when there's trust there, I know that the work is going to get done. It doesn't matter where they are.
I'm super open to feedback about compensation.
I think it's really important to reward their team members for the hard work that they do and recognize that on an annual basis I give them a good amount of time off.
We look at year end bonuses.
So there's just a lot that I'm doing to just make sure that my team stays where they are because I don't want them going anywhere because yeah, they're, they're my everything.
[00:46:10] Speaker A: What do you feel the culture at Colette Interior feels like from the inside? There's some studios that feel like a family. It's super casual, it's warm and fuzzy. There's others that feel really inspired and more on the professional side. If someone on your team were describing what it's like to work there, what would you want them to say?
[00:46:33] Speaker B: That's a really good question.
We definitely have a very casual environment.
I think I'd want them to say that they're there and they're feeling inspired and they like going to their jobs every day.
They feel that, you know, their capabilities are being utilized and yeah, I think just the importance of really liking where you are.
[00:47:01] Speaker A: I would love to talk about advice for someone who's getting ready to make their first hires or maybe they have a junior right now and they're ready to like really start building a core team.
For a designer who's always assumed that their next hire needs to come from a design program, they're just graduating or another firm, what would you say to them?
[00:47:23] Speaker B: I would say make it harmonious. Right. I think that it's about blending these different talents and thinking about what you need from like a business perspective beyond just A creative designer.
I think it's super important to have people in house that have technical capabilities and that have design skills. And I'm so grateful for my team members that do. But I also think that there's so many other aspects to the business that have come from areas that do, you know, from. From people that don't have a design background. And it's because they have a background where they were really excelling in some of these other, like, high need areas that are the logistical part of this job.
[00:48:08] Speaker A: Job.
I know that there are people listening, thinking, okay, well, where do you find said people?
Can we talk about how you've. How you have found people are. Is it job postings in a certain place? Is it posting on Instagram? Are you going even for the technical.
The more technical roles? Are you going to your local university? How do people start to find these golden employees?
[00:48:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, at first it was just as simple as doing, like, a job post.
I think that was probably the case with, like, my first two hires. And then it's gotten to be a little bit more organic. Like, I have resumes that I save all the time for. People who are just reaching out just in the hopes that we're hiring. We do post on Instagram.
Our amazing intern who, like, literally can do technical drawings, like, in her sleep, we found through her reaching out to us. And so that was, you know, a complete stroke of luck, but it really has been a combination.
[00:49:11] Speaker A: Do you have somewhere on your website, like, anything about available jobs or, you know, we're always looking for new talent, or is it just someone's reaching out directly to the contact page?
[00:49:23] Speaker B: They're just reaching out to the contact page.
[00:49:25] Speaker A: And for people who have come from less traditional backgrounds in the design industry, are those people.
Do you feel like those people had an interest in design and that was, you know, appealing to them? And so they're like, my skills can apply here, or did you have to look for them a little more specifically?
[00:49:46] Speaker B: No. So they definitely had the same, like, burning passion that I had had where they always loved, like, art or design or had this really strong creative background. They just didn't pursue it right out of the gate.
So that was a connection that I made with all of those hires right away. And I just recognized, hey, I don't have it either. But that doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean I'm not here to succeed in it.
[00:50:09] Speaker A: Okay, and Trish, as we get ready to close out, what are some exciting things for Clutten Tears that you can Share with us any projects, big milestones or things on the horizon that we can learn about.
[00:50:22] Speaker B: Yeah, so I mean we're celebrating our 10 year anniversary this year in business which is super exciting and we have a lot of like really amazing publicity that's going to be coming out this year. We, we also have some really unique projects. So we did a lake house this year which was our first opportunity with that we have a beautiful pool house that we're doing in New Jersey and just these just new opportunities for us. So it's been a lot of fun being able to design in some different realms.
[00:50:53] Speaker A: Amazing. Well, this was so fascinating. I really appreciate you taking the time to break down exactly how your team operates, how you compiled them and also some skill sets that we can can be thinking to look out for outside of what you know is the go to norm.
[00:51:10] Speaker B: Yes. Awesome. It was really fun to share.
[00:51:13] Speaker A: Thanks Trish. I'll talk to you soon.
[00:51:14] Speaker B: Okay, talk to you soon. Thank you.
[00:51:19] Speaker A: For more in depth analysis of this interview including exclusive downloads, examples and more. Don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building a an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] the Interior Collective thank you so so much for tuning in to this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. A big huge thank you to our production team at IDCO Studio and Quinn made your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible.
Until next time. I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living.
And a very special thanks to our presenting speaker sponsor this season Materio, the project delivery system built specifically for interior designers. Visit Materio Co to get started.
