Leaving Corporate to Pivot, Rebrand & Grow with Kristin Harrison

Anastasia Casey: Hey, welcome back. This is season seven of the Interior Collective. I am your host, Anastasia Casey, and today I am thrilled to welcome Kristin Harrison, founder of Georgia & Hunt Design House. Just one year ago, Kristin left her corporate career to launch Bungalow 10 and soon after rebranded to Georgia & Hunt and has since built a team of five and amassed 50,000 Instagram followers in a day when 50,000 Instagram followers in one year seems impossible. In this episode, we dive directly into her playbook, mapping out her financial runway, the rebrand, and landing her first clients. We'll explore why she hired a creative lead early on, how she structures fees and scopes projects for profitability, and the systems that keep operations running smoothly. Plus, we unpack her social media strategy, what content types and metrics fueled her growth, and why slideshow-style reels actually went viral. Finally, Kristin shares her biggest challenges, pivotal decisions, and top secret projects on the horizon. Make sure to save this episode to come back later on for more notes. AC: We are so excited to invite you to dive deeper into the Interior Collective podcast episodes now on Patreon. Unlock access to in-depth analysis, helpful downloads, and worksheets created with each podcast episode. Subscribers gain behind the scenes access to additional resources like examples and screenshots of guest spreadsheets, construction documents, and so much more. Your subscription also gets you immediate access to our private community of interior designers and our team of industry experts ready to answer your questions. Subscribe now at patreon.com/theinteriorcollective or linked in the show notes. Join the Interior Collective Patreon community and let's continue this conversation. AC: If you've been listening to the Interior Collective for a while, you probably have heard all kinds of software recommendations and maybe even tried a few. But if your system still feels kind of all over the place, I totally get it. That's exactly why I wanted to share Materio. That's M-A-T-E-R-I-O. It's an all-in-one platform built just for interior designers, from concept to install and everything in between. You can try it for free at getmaterio.com and Interior Collective listeners get 50% off their first month. AC: Hi, Kristin. Welcome to the show. I'm so, so, so excited to talk about today's topic and just get to hang out with you in general. Kristin Harrison: Me too. I am very excited. I hope everyone's ready for this. AC: It's just such, you have such an inspiring story and such an inspiring trajectory and you were doing it at a time. I mean, in the last year, things have felt really different compared to what everybody experienced five years ago when the industry really blew up. And I just am so relieved we get to have this conversation to give people listening, like a little bit of hope that not everything is lost and like you didn't miss your chance to start this business. And there is incredible growth out there if you're just really strategic about it. So I think we should start with you just telling us what inspired you to pivot from your previous career and launch Georgia and Hunt. Let's just start at the beginning, which is not that long ago. KH: Yeah, no, it's not that long ago. I was in an operating room for a very long time. So I was selling medical devices and doing a lot of like creative marketing stuff as well. And to be honest with you, I just got very burnt out. I was like tired of waking up super early, I just tired of getting yelled at by surgeons or people in the hospital. It's a very, it's a high pressure job. I think most people are like, it's like the little rep that walks in and does the stuff, but it's really actually it actually was just a lot. And to kind of give you an idea, have a now five-year-old just turned five, just turned four, just turned two. So I think doing that and kind of feeling that like overwhelming, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm tired of doing this was like my biggest, I think that was the biggest thing that really pushed me to just try it. And I didn't, I mean, I felt like what's the worst thing that's going to happen I do it and then suck at it. This is terrible. AC: Right, you can probably always go back to medical sales if you needed to. KH: Yeah, it's fine. You know, so that was kind of like the biggest push. I was just I was just burnt out. AC: What made you go from that to what feels like out of the blue interiors? Like what was it specifically that called you to this industry? KH: So I had a friend that I always talk about her, because I always say if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be doing this at all. But I have a very good friend who moved into a house. You know during COVID, it was really hard to get homes. And they found this house. And to be honest, she hated the house. She didn't like it at all. And she's like, can you just come in here and do this for me? I love your house. Just do it. I'm like, no, I'm not doing that. You're my friend. This is going to go so badly. I am messing with this. And she's like, no, you're going to do it. I'm gonna force you to do it. I've been telling you forever. You just need to do it. And I'm like, okay, fine. We'll just go room by room. We'll see what happens. So this sneaky friend that I have, I guess someone had reached out from like really a local magazine, the Fezzie magazine, is in this in DC area has very good readership, but it's not anything like, you know, it's not AD, okay? So they had reached out to her about finding this house, this process that they went through. And she was like, hey, I know you're coming to interview me, but my friend is designing my house and I really think you should shoot it. It looks really beautiful." And they were like, you know what? Like we do interiors. So like, let's take a look and see what happened. And she literally like bamboozled these people into shooting my stuff for free that I had no interest in doing really. I didn't really think that was like gonna happen at all. She did this, I styled the shoot myself, because I mean, at that point, I'm like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I'll just style and we'll shoot it and then I'll never hear from anyone ever again in my life. So they ended up publishing this house and literally from that, everything just took off. It was that hard and that simple, which sounds ridiculous, but it was really my one friend who pushed me into it. And then I realized as I was doing it, I was like, you know what? I could definitely do this. Not to discredit anyone with a degree, by the way. I don't want to do that. I just thought to myself, like, I could do this on the side. You know, this could be a fun hobby. It could kind of get me out of the mindset of being so burnt out doing the other stuff. And that's really how it started. And then it kind of exploded from there. AC: Okay, so let's talk about the explosion because I love that story. I love that friend. If you haven't heard in my episode with Audrey Scheck is like basically that friend to me. So thank you friend for pushing you into this whole new world. But I mean, I imagine that having a medical sales career was probably chaotic and stressful, but dependable and safe from an employment standpoint. So as you prepared for this transition, after this exploded and things just started like picking up like crazy, originally you were thinking that this was just like a side gig to like be a creative outlet. What steps did you actually take like financially, logistically, strategically while you were still in that corporate role as this just started blowing up on the side? KH: So it's very interesting because you would think that the two careers have really nothing to do with each other. But I think the difference with me, there was a couple of things, right? The difference with me was that I was so ignorant to what the industry actually was and like all of the things that could go wrong, that it was actually like helpful for me. Because I think if I knew what I knew now, I never would have done it. I would have been like, shit, I would be getting sued left and right. I'm not doing this. You know what I mean? But the business, side of it actually kind of, I think for me, in my mind, I was like, before anything, I need to get like my financials set up my LLC, like the business end of it in my brain was the most important. And I mean, I think if we're being honest with each other, the internet is completely fake. Okay, so the internet is like, the hardest thing and the easiest thing to manipulate. So in my mind, I was like, okay, I have this opportunity. I've done my friend's house. I'm getting inquiries for another house. I still have this other job. What's the best way to handle this? So I said, PR. I need a PR person. And I talked to a couple and they were like, absolutely not. You do not need a PR person right now. You're not ready for PR. And I was like, oh no, you don't understand. I need a PR person because I need to create a buzz before anything even happens. And they're like, well, you need a shoot. You need this. And I'm like, no, I don't. Like this is, telling you, like this is what I want to do. At the time we were building, my husband and I were building our house and I thought to myself, like, I don't even care what this house looks like. I'm going to make it for, I'm going to do it so that I can take all the pictures I want of this house and put them out into the internet. And I signed with someone for PR and I said, you know, my goal is like, let's beef up like the SEO. Let's do everything we can to just get the name out there, even though there's not really that many projects yet. Like, let's just do it. So that was kind of like all on the back end that was happening. So everything I was making from the design side, I was putting back in to the company. And everything that I was making from the medical side was obviously like going back to my family expenses and things like that. So I think it was a little bit easier for me because it's not like, you know, my husband was sitting there being like, where is all this money going? You know, it was everything I was making, I was just putting directly back into it. So I was making nothing. I was having all this, I had all this work, but I was making nothing. So everything was kind of set up on the back end in that regard. So PR, the business side of it. And then for me, it was like, I just have to make enough money to get good pictures, to get a good stylist and to get good pictures. That's it. That's all I have to do without my husband bothering me and being like, this is ridiculous. This is just a hobby. You can't be spending all this money. Those were the things that really kind of, I think, made the difference in the beginning. I wasn't really trying to make money. I was trying to be smart and to get my name out, right? And I think that was like the biggest difference. And that, I don't know if most people do that, maybe they do, but in my mind, it wasn't even so much about, you know, the specific project itself. It was like, I took what I could get and made it into something that I thought looked really good on camera, right? So that was kind of how I worked, what was most important to me to get before I even thought about being at the point where I could quit my other job. AC: Okay, logistical questions. How many hours a day were you working your full-time job? Like, what did a day like that look like? KH: So it's interesting, the last year or so that I had that job, I was doing more like creative marketing stuff for them. So I mean, I was working a full day, like nine to four, nine to five, right? But then after that, it was like all I would do was the design stuff. Like I had my kids obviously, but once my kids would go to bed, like I would be working till they went to bed until like 12 or one o'clock in the morning. And then any meetings I had, like I did have some flexibility in my schedule a little bit, but any meetings I would have was like nights and weekends. And nobody knew I had another job. None of the clients knew I had another job except like anyone that was my friend, right? But like I was very, I mean, I worked around their schedule as much as I could. I had everything done when I said it was gonna be done. So logistically speaking, that's how it worked. It was just a shit ton of hard work like at night on the weekends. And thank God, like my husband is understanding because he, I mean, I don't even think he was able to talk to me half the time because I'm like, I put the kids to bed and we put the kids to bed and then I'm working. So thats how it happened? There's no real special sauce to it. It was just a lot of work. AC: Yeah, but you were doing all that. I mean, if I'm doing the math right, you had a fairly newborn child at that point, right? Yeah. Yeah, amazing. But props to your husband for being supportive and helping carry that weight so that you could do this. At this point, you're working on these other projects and these other projects are coming to you from referrals and that one local magazine publication, that's where your calls were coming from. At this point, did you even have like a website or an Instagram started at this point or were you like, I'm just working to get the portfolio to then launch all these other things? KH: Yeah, my website was like coming soon. My Instagram, I refused to post anything on my Instagram until it was exactly what I wanted it look like. Like I was like, I'm not gonna post like behind the scenes stuff. I'm not gonna post anything until it's exactly what I want it to look like. And that sucks by the way, because you're doing all this work behind the scenes and then you're like not showing anything for it, you know? And I was getting referrals from that one article, but it was also friends of friends that were reaching out and obviously that kind of becomes a tricky situation because you don't really wanna, I mean, I don't know about you, but I try not to work with my friends as much as possible because I don't wanna affect a relationship, because inevitably I always say something always goes wrong and then, you know. But I would take like smaller stuff from my friends. That was just like a room or two, just so I could get some content. But I did not post anything. I had a coming soon on my website. Like these people who trusted me were saints in my mind. AC: Absolutely. Okay, so just to give everyone listening like a ballpark picture, you're working this full-time job and you have these other projects. Can you recall about how many projects, and I know that there are different scales, but how many projects you were kind of juggling after that first magazine publication when you were like, got it, we're doing this now. KH Yeah, about seven, about seven. And the thing was, at that time, I didn't really know how to say no, you know, because I thought everything was going to dry up. Of course, this is going to dry up. No one's ever going to ask me to do anything again. So I was just saying yes to everything, which as you know, is the biggest mistake on planet Earth. But it was about seven, between seven and 10, I would say for a while, I was. AC: While you were working full time? Yeah. Okay, so now I want to start taking us through kind of the next steps. Because I know you started conceptually as Bungalow 10 before becoming Georgia and Hunt. So why did you go with Bungalow 10? What made you pivot from it? And kind of why did you decide to pivot as quickly as you did? KH: So a couple of things. Obviously when I first started the business, I was like, oh, it's cute. Bungalow 10. You know, it was like the, I don't know, 10, this was the 10, my husband and I building this house, it was the 10th house I would, 10th house slash apartment slash whatever I would have lived in, you know, during my life. So I said bungalow 10. I also thought like, oh, if I create products one day, bungalow 10 is like a cute little product name, but, or company name. And the problem was, is that where I live in this area, these houses are very, estate, like they're very large. And it sounded like I was doing beach homes, like little, which by the way, throw them my way. I love a beach home, but I like, was not, it just didn't line up for me in my brain. just wasn't making sense to me when I would read articles or I would get published. I'd be like, it sounds like a beachy, a beachy company name. And it just didn't work. Georgia and Hunt, my two daughters, my son got left out. He'll get something else one day, but I, just, sounded a little bit. It sounded a little bit more, I guess, in line with the clientele and the houses I was doing, if that makes sense. And it was a quick pivot. I mean I talked to some people about it was like, does this makes sense to you. And it did. And I think that it was really just that. It just wasn't aligning with what I saw coming out of our work, if that makes sense. AC: I think that's so brilliant. And the fact that you hadn't launched your website, you hadn't been posting to Instagram yet, it probably was a swifter, easier transition than if you had waited and let that sit in your gut for a little bit. KH: So I did have the Instagram built up a little bit on Bungalow10 and the website, right? So that was actually a little bit of an issue. Not an issue, issue actually turned out not to be at all, but it was more like just the stupidity of me. Like, how am I gonna switch over my followers? Like, what do I do? How does this work? Like just stupid stuff like that. Like, are people gonna know who I was? But what I did was I had like any article or anything that was coming out, I made sure that they said like, you know, I was changing my name in spring of 2025 to Georgia and Hunt so that it's like that kept building up. So people kept seeing it over and over again, just to kind of like help with the transition. And to be honest, like I had not, I have not seen any issues with it at all. It, our website directs, mean, technology is crazy. So it's not like it's that big of a deal, but it was, I thought it was going to be a way more confusing thing for people than it ended up being. But I think if I waited another couple of years, it would have been dumb. It was like then, then, then or never. AC: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so you talked to us about kind of that financial runway. You already have a successful full-time job. Did you, and you were putting everything back into the business, was there like a certain savings goal or revenue targets you wanted to hit before making the leap or was that benchmark really just getting that portfolio work? KH: It was a little bit of both. was like, need the portfolio, obviously, but I also wanted to have at least like, I would say, in my mind, I was like, I just want 50 grand of like, money that I don't need to touch, like profit after I put all the money in, which I thought was like, you know, it. Did I think it was gonna be possible? Sure, because you make money doing other things. But did I think it would happen that fast? No. But in my mind, I was like, I feel like 50 is a good number so I can have a little bit of room to play. And like I was getting these other clients, I also had like a client number in my mind. I was like, I need at least, I need that in the bank. And then I need at least five solid clients that are really just like starting at that time. And that was I have to be honest with you, I was doing my taxes. My accountant was having to do my taxes a couple of months ago, and I didn't realize that I had that job until May of last year. I did not realize that I had just stopped doing that job. It feels like forever ago, but I will tell you, as soon as I quit that job, everything exploded. It was actually holding me back, I think, from being able to put everything into it, and I had no backup plan. Like, I don't know, once I quit, I was like, okay, I better make this work. And then it just opened, the flood gates opened, right? So it wasn't that long ago. AC: This episode is presented by Loloi, makers of handmade rugs, pillows, and wall art available to the trade. Loloi was founded by Amir Loloi in Dallas, Texas 21 years ago. It's an incredible story of hustle and hard work that I learned all about in my recent podcast interview with Amir's son, Cyrus Loloi. Since then, Loloi has grown to over 650 employees with five warehouses, five showrooms, and thousands of textile collections across all price points. Learn more about Loloi and start a trade account at LoloiRugs.com. That's L-O-L-O-I rugs.com. AC: Okay. And then kind of the last checkbox I have in my brain of like, okay, you figured out the client pipeline. You figured out how much money you wanted to have saved. What other resources like courses, mentors, tools, anything else you relied on to build up your design skills or the business side of things before or after launch? KH: Yeah your stuff. I really did. I bought like every single thing that you guys offered. You can go back and check your receipts too in there. I bought everything I possibly could to make sure that I was like looking like a legitimate business. And I shouldn't say looking like, like I knew what I was doing in a sense, obviously, but that was like the big thing for me. I think it was getting like my investment guide and my welcome guide and making sure I had like a flow to my presentations and knowing everything. And obviously I like kind of live and die by design files and all that good stuff. But I think for me, it was like, I think what you present yourself as is like very important, especially in the beginning. So for me to have all of this documentation that was very official and really well thought out, at least I tried to, you know, make sure everything was well thought out. think it changes, you know, every couple of months now at this point, but that was like the most important thing to me. I was like, if I'm gonna be a business and this is my reputation, I better have my shit together and I better have everything looking really tight. So that was what I did. I used all of your templates. I still use them actually, which is not a plug for your show by the way, but I actually do. AC: That is so sweet. It's exciting to actually get to hear someone that I'm interviewing being like, is how it helped me get started. So thank you. But okay, so you told us a little bit of a story about how you, I want to say attracted your first clients, but it feels like it was really serendipitous. Yeah, forced. But I am interested to know, talk to us about that game plan. You said you went to a few publicists and you're like, this is what I want to do. They turned you down and from what I know about the amazing publicists we've worked with and have interviewed, yes, that makes sense. If they're like, you don't have projects, like I can't work with you. What were your tactics when you said, have this plan and I need to make myself look like something before anything exists? Talk to us about that plan. What was it in your head that you were, that you ended up pitching to the publicists that ended up taking you on? KH: So I basically was like, here's the deal. Here's the picture is like, this is the house I'm building. This is my friend's house I'm working on. And this is the other project that I'm working on. I do not have any content right now. I understand that, but this is what's happening. This is what I'm working on. And this is what it's going to look like. Right. So I'm showing them like all the design boards, all the plans for everything. And I said, I don't want to get into a situation where these projects are done and I take photos and they don't go anywhere and no one knows who the hell I am. Right? So for me, I finally had someone that was like, you know what, like this actually makes sense. Let's, let's do it. Because what I thought was it's like, I will comment on every single thing you send me. If you're sending me something from some random website in Dubai that needs a comment, I'll comment on it. Comment on it. You know, like I'll comment on it because it was all helping like my SEO, even though my website was under construction, but it was still at least building some sort of brand awareness. Although national stuff was great, it is great. I think for me, my main focus in the beginning stages was locally in the DC market, which has, it's a great place to be doing business. I said, I want people to start hearing my name and I want them to start hearing my name before these projects come out. So that when we go to the editors and we say these are the pictures that they're interested in, it's not just some unknown person. Lindley Richardson, actually, was my PR locally and she, she frankly took a chance on me probably because she has plenty of other things to do, but she saw kind of what the vision was and she was like, yeah, let's do it. And to her credit, she sent me every single, I asked her to send me everything that came up. And if it was a fit for me, like it was a fit. if it didn't work, it didn't work. But I answered every question she ever sent me for a year straight. And that was kind of the tactic for me because people get, you know, they asked for comments on things and people were like, I don't want to write about this anymore. For me, it was like, yeah, I don't feel like doing this right now, but I'm going to do it. So that was the tactic behind it. AC: That’s so helpful, Kristen. That's a really great reminder. And I know that Caroline Pinkston, who does our PR, she has a program set up where if you don't have projects ready to pitch, she calls it her, oh gosh, I'm sorry, Caroline, I'm going to butcher this, but it's like her expert package. And it's essentially pitching you for quotes to be published everywhere. And it is a really successful, smart strategy for people who don't have the work to show for it. KH: Yeah, it's very interesting. AC: Okay, so talk to us about how you've grown your team. Because it's, as we said, now it's been just over a year since you left your job and now you have a team of five, unless you've hired someone since I sent you these questions. So talk to us about who those first hires were and what criteria guided your decision for those hires. KH: So I feel like I've always, like my dad has always said this to me, he's always like, surround yourself with people smarter than you, right? So I think like the one thing that was important to me is like, I know what my strengths are, I have a very creative brain, but I also am very acutely aware of what my weaknesses are, right? I did not go to school for this, I do not have a degree. I'm not saying everybody can do this, I'm not saying this is the right way to do it, but it's how it happened for me, right? So in my mind, I'm like, okay I'm the dumbest person at this point, who is gonna be the smartest person I can bring on that actually has a degree, knows their shit, knows what they're doing, and can help me. And it had to be like a perfect situation because to be honest with you, I was like, how am I gonna pay for this? How am I gonna pay for this? Because everything I'm making is going right back into the business. And I thought to myself, like the perfect situation for me, which is probably not the same for everyone, but the perfect situation for me was to find somebody that I like fully trusted that had the talent, the eye, all of these things that basically I was like, let's profit share, okay? Like you're my first hire, like I'm like 80, 20, let's profit share. Cause at that point, like I'm bringing all the clients, but you know, she's, she's like my, my right brain or my left brain, whatever it is. And it was through a friend of a friend. She, her husband was, is in the Marines. She was living in Japan for a few years. She had her interior design degree from Virginia Tech. And it was just like a perfect situation. She was coming back. She came from the commercial world before she went to Japan and just like very technically sound and also just like a freak of nature unicorn. She's also a trained photographer. So it was like all of these things kind of were like, I didn't even ask to see her portfolio. I just wanted to talk to her on the phone. I was like, let's just talk. Let's see how this goes. Right. And I talked to her on the phone literally for like 10 minutes. And I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna pay you. I have no idea how the hell this is gonna work. But if like you believe in the trajectory of this, like let's do it. And to her credit, she was like, okay, like, let's go. She didn't wanna go back to the commercial world. And she kind of was like, she saw what I was doing and she believed in it. And that's how it started. And for me, I was so, I was spread so thin that I had no time to do anything like creative anymore. I felt like I was like pulling. And I'm sure many people can relate to this, but I was pulling the same stuff over and over again. I'm like, what am I doing? I have no time to actually do the stuff that I like. But I knew at that time that I needed somebody technical that had the right background that could do all the drafting and all of the things that I was weak at. So she was my first hire, obviously. And if she ever leaves me, I'll die. AC: So for that first hire, how long have you, where in the timeline does that fit? Were you still working your other job when you hired? KH: Just quit. Literally just quit that week. So I wasn't ready to hire. AC: Up into that point, who or how or were you doing the technical drawings? Like the things that you say that you don't have the training on, how was that being executed? KH: I was using Canva to scan or Canvas, sorry, to scan. And then I was sending like the CADs and the SketchUp models that I was getting to, I was like outsourcing it to somebody else. And then they would do all the spatial planning and like the technical drawings for me. So, and I knew pretty quickly, obviously that I needed to get that part together because that is like the most important part, right? And so that's how it was happening. But I really needed someone like next to me kind of doing this with me because you can outsource that stuff, but it's never the same as someone being there in there measuring and doing all the things that you need them to do. So the process was a little jagged for me before she came along, right? I like to tell people she like whipped the entire company into shape. She loves a Gantt chart, so. AC: Okay, so I'm curious as to a little, I'd love a little more explanation for how you did make it work to bring her on financially. When she came on, was there like a low base salary or was it strictly profit sharing? And if you are comfortable sharing, has that evolved or does that still work? KH: Yeah, no, it's been strictly, it was strictly profit sharing. There wasn't a set, and I think honestly, is it the right way for everyone to do it? Probably not, but for me, it took the most stress off me, because I was like, if I am responsible for somebody's salary, I am going to lose my mind, because I can't even be responsible for myself right now, but I knew I needed the help. And we have like kept the same arrangements, the same splits throughout everything, and then obviously like, if she's bringing I kind of running it almost like a real estate house to be honest, like if she's bringing in clientele, then we switch the split, right? So it's 80 her 20 me. But I did that because even in the corporate world, I'm like, I see people leave all the time when they're not paid enough, right? When they're not like shown that the company understands their value. And like for me, I would, I would be nothing unless without her. like the split stay the same and obviously like we will adjust as time goes on and it's needed. But that's how it's maintained. And she's doing much better here than she was in her commercial job. I think everybody's happy for now. Yeah, anybody else who comes on is salaried. KH: Got it. And one last question about your amazing unicorn. You said it was a friend of a friend. I know people listening are like, how did you find this amazing unicorn? So I comprehend friend of a friend, but how did it get to be the point where it was like a friend of a friend now knows that you're hiring or that you're looking for someone? How did you get to the point of finding a friend of a friend? KH: So I wasn't hiring, to be honest. I was sitting at my friend's kitchen table and her also a unicorn of a nanny was sitting there and telling me she has this friend that's moving back from Japan. She was like, have you thought about hiring? Like, I see you have all these projects. Like, do you need help? And I thought like, yeah, I need help, but I can't pay. I don't think I can pay somebody to help me right now. Like, I don't know how I'm going to do that, right? That's unfortunately for your listeners. It's that's really how it happened. It wasn't like I put the word out that I was looking, I wasn't looking. And it really, it is like the epitome of landing in your lap. That's what happened, which is not helpful at all. I realized that very much. But I think, I don't know, basically I had someone else tell me, you need to hire this person because you're gonna drown. And they were correct. AC: Well, I think that a key lesson in that you were very lucky, yes, but the fact that you were articulating and talking about your work and talking about how much you had going on to your friends led the nanny who was sitting right there to say, hey, I actually know someone. So I think that a big takeaway there is that sometimes when we're running our own business, we can keep everything internal and be like, I can figure this out. I can figure this out on my own. But the more that you articulate, the more possible it is for someone to want to help. KH: Actually, that's a brilliant response because I never really thought about that. And I think the one thing and you can probably tell from us just talking is I am like an open book, right? So for me, it's not like I was internally like carrying all that stress and not talking about it. I was telling anybody that would ask me I'm like, yeah, I'm in hell. Like, I don't know. I don't know how to do this. You know, like, I don't know what I've created here. This has become this monster that like, I don't know how to maneuver at this point. And I, no one ever actually said it the way that you just said it, but I think that actually does, it really does help like to not put on a front, you know, that everything is great, that I've got this like wonderful process and that I'm thriving. You know, it was very much like, no, I'm not. And I, I wanted to be thriving because you don't want to lose your business. You know, these people trust you. So you have to yeah, it's very interesting you just said, because I don't think I've ever articulated that or thought to articulate it that way, but that is very true. Very true. AC: I'd love to go back to talking more about your creative lead because I think that it is a challenge for designers as business owners sometimes to figure out, ok am I doing the business side or am I doing design or is it a combination of and what do I have to give up in order to make this actually work? What do I actually want to be doing? So I'd love to understand how you two collaborate to maintain your vision as the creative director when you do have someone else who's, for lack of a better phrase, doing the actual work. You know what I mean? So like, how do you find that symbiotic relationship? KH: Well, I think again, it was more that, and I'm sure people listening to your podcast know this because I've heard it on your podcast, but the business side of this industry is extremely detailed and stressful, right? So I noticed very early on that for me to run a smooth business, there was a, especially in the beginning, it was taking me out of a lot of the creative aspects of the things that the creative aspects of the projects and that's what I enjoyed, right? And again, I wasn't able to be as creative because I wasn't able to, you know, like look at all things that were trending and the new stuff coming out and all the things I was excited about for so many years, like thinking about how to implement projects, all that stuff went away. You know, like it was, it was like I had no time to do that. So to be fair to clients in my mind, it was like at this point in the business, I am doing so much of the business side of it that I am it is a disservice to them to not have someone else, like someone else's brain kind of like going out and seeing, you know, maybe some trends or some things that we all think, we both think are cool, right? So, and it kind of goes back to hiring someone that's like better than you or smarter than you. I always joke around because I'm like, yeah, you're the better half of everything. Her name is Caitlin, by the way. She's amazing. But she, you know, for me, was like, we need to be more creative. And the coolest thing about her is that she has these ideas in her brain and she's able to come up with like an initial concept and for whatever reason that initial concept sparks my creativity. And then we like come together and really do way better than I could have done on my own, right? So I think it was just that realization that the business side of this is so heavy that if I didn't bring someone else on, I would be falling behind a little bit. If that makes sense, it was a no-brainer for me, but maybe for some people, they don't like to give up as much control. But I think we found out, we figured out a way pretty quickly to, I wasn't really giving up control at all. I was more so just kind of like opening my eyes to things that I wasn't able to think of at that moment. And then we, together, we were doing even cooler stuff. AC: Right. And obviously for you, Caitlin is handling the technical deliverables. So that was a huge lift that you were able to free up some space for the business. So let's talk through your corporate structure now, because that's one of five. I don't know if five people includes you, if there's four people on the team plus you. Yeah, perfect. Let's talk about your other hires and what that corporate structure looks like now a year later because as you're explaining all of these things and we're talking about what you're giving up in order to take on the business part, I'm curious if any of these roles that you've hired handle more of the business part so you can be creative. So let's talk through that. KH: So at this point, I have someone running my books, which is normal, I think. I have a procurement company, a procurement team. So they take over all the data entry stuff and the ordering and the tracking and all that stuff, which was such a burden on me that took up so much of my time. The bookkeeping was like, getting that was like an elephant off my chest. But then we have Caitlin obviously who's full-time that's doing more of the creative stuff. And then recently I hired another Caitlin, which is very confusing. They spell their names differently, but she came from the commercial side as well. She was also friends with Caitlin. So Caitlin was like, I have a friend moving back to the DC area. She's like, loves technical work. Like she loves it. And it's, she's, I don't know why. I don't know what made her love it, but she loves it. So she was like a recent. Everybody you're seeing now other than the original Caitlin is recent. But we got also got to the point now where we have so many projects where like we need somebody full time that's doing all the technical stuff, right? So the new Kaitlin, we call her new Kaitlin. I asked her to change her name but that's not very like HR appropriate of me. So I had to not do that. But new Kaitlin as we call her, she does everything technical. So everything like from the beginning of the spatial plans to like the end of the all the construction planning. She does all of that stuff. Mia came on as an associate designer but she's like an intern, so technically, yeah, she's still in school. But what my goal is, is not to have her in the next year come work full time with us because we're gonna need someone else at that point, I think. And then I have Nikki who does like all, honestly, she's dedicated just pulling like accessories and styling stuff because that's another thing that kind of slips because you're not able to keep up with all of that. It sounds stupid, but even just like lamps or anything, like bowls, whatever you're putting places, people don't realize the amount of calculations it takes to pick the right stuff, right? So she's fully dedicated to doing that and pulling all that stuff for us. So I would say the two Kaitlins are full-time and then Nikki and me are part-time. So I don't know if that counts, but I would say there's three of us every day working all day. And then the other two are part-time for now, but I don't know how long the part-time will last. It'll probably end up being full-time soon enough. So yeah, I would say it's like a kind of a five, but more three. AC: Yeah, absolutely. So your bookkeeper, accountant, and your procurement team, those are outsource contract positions. Great. I'd love to hear a little bit more about the procurement side. I can wrap my head totally around, you know you outsource your accounting. The procurement side, I've heard of this. I know people are kind of divided. Some people have a procurement person in-house. I think it's an amazing resource that there are companies that handle procurement for you. I am curious as to how you build back that time to your client when it is something that you're outsourcing. Can you talk us through that? KH: Yeah, so they actually include it like in the invoice to the client. So what happens is, like there's, we kind of adjust our margins a little bit on the product so that it's like built into that price. So it's, I think it's, I think it's $50 a product, now they charge or $60, but the product, like them charging that amount covers them ordering it and then following it from like, you know, when it's ordered to, when it gets to the receiving warehouse. So for me, it's worth every cent to take some of that profit out of the actual cost of the per product, right? So then they have their own, and I can just tell you, I use Designer Advantage. I know a lot of people, there's like different companies to use, but they have been like life-saving for me. So they charge you, they charge me per product that they order, right? And then they, when I actually think about this, because now I'm...now I'm forgetting what they charge me. That's bad. See, they're so good at it. I don't even know what they're doing. They have their own freight line as well. Anything that's like cheaper for them to pick up and take it actually ends up saving the customer money. And they also do like a 15% cap. So it's like 15% of the cost of your product is the shipping cost. And if it goes over that, they cover it, which is interesting for me, probably because they're making crap somewhere else but some just fine. But it's kind of like very cut and dry for the clients. It doesn't feel overwhelming. It's like for us, when we go in, we say, okay, this is gonna be the cost of the product. This is gonna be the cost of your shipping and that's it. So it doesn't really, it all gets covered by the client in a way, except we're taking a little bit of a, I mean a $60 hit on each product that they're ordering. But for me, that's like nothing. It's like take it. So they...them also handling it from the ordering to the receiving warehouse has been like a big thing. They also handle like whenever there's damage, both them they're communicating with our receiving warehouse all the time. So if like something's damaged, they're filing those claims, they're doing all of that. That to me is worth every cent. Because as everybody knows, I feel like when one thing comes damaged, it's like a such a pain in the ass to like fill out the forms, get it sent back. And you know, every wholesaler is like, well, what actually happened? Is it the color that it's supposed to be? they know, there's always like, they always think there's nothing actually wrong with it. So I feel like taking that off my plate too has saved me, I'm not joking, like hundreds of hours. So I do know like a lot of other designers have procurement people in house, but for me, it doesn't make sense. I, because the customer is kind of covering it, it doesn't, I don't really want to bring someone on just for procurement. AC: So you are not billing, they are getting an invoice directly from the procurement company or you? KH: They create the invoices for me, right? And they like link them with our QuickBooks and then we're sending the invoices. But it's like linked in and shows, it just, it doesn't even show us anything. It just shows us like, this is the cost of the product, which is not different from the cost of the product that they have seen, the customer has seen originally. We kind of like, we know how much everything's gonna be at this point. So it's very easy for us to say, okay, this table's $1,200 or this, whatever it is. So it's very seamless. It doesn't look like anything else. It looks like it's our templates, it's our everything. It just, it doesn't throw anybody off. And to be honest, it feels like very high end for them. Like they don't have to worry about anything from start to finish. And neither do we. Once we're done, we pick everything and the client says, yes, we hand it off to them. They input all the data. They do, they take everything from our design files. They order, like they fill in all the information. We don't touch it. So for us to be done with our side of the process, when the client says yes is like, we're saving a ton of time and there's no more headache anymore. So for me, it makes sense. For other people, might, you know, maybe if they're running a larger operation, it makes more sense to have someone in-house, but I mean, the company is doing this 24-7, that's all they do. So they've been wonderful for me, it's worked. AC: That is so interesting. It's so amazing. Now, the only thing I can think of is that some people are making markup on procurement time. And so without it costing $50, but my mind is just like racing right now because I'm like, that would leave so much room for more projects to be doing design time. So that is such a fascinating model. I really appreciate you sharing that with us. Whether it's $50 or whatever, it's per item. Does that include if you were ordering things custom? KH: Yeah. It's the same, There's custom is a pain in the ass. Yeah, you probably do. Yeah, it is. AC: Amazing. That is so interesting. I'm going to reach out to them and be like, I need to hear all about this. KH: Yeah, you should. And I probably got something wrong. I'm probably like, that's not right, Kristin, but I don't know. I'm just paying the bills. So I don't know. Whatever it is, it shows up at the right spot. AC: No that's really, really great. I think it's also a really great option for people who are still shopping retail and are like scared to get their feet wet because like all of that procurement side sounds really scary, then maybe you can just outsource it. And so that's amazing. I'm curious as to what you would say your role is on your team today. KH: I mean, I would say like, I would say creative director probably. I think Caitlin's like more of a creative lead obviously. And just technically speaking, obviously like the, the, the, the, the go-to the Caitlin's are, but I would say more creative director and obviously like, I think CEO without the, I mean, that's like not my choice, but that's what it is. Right. So yeah. So I would say that, but I am very involved in every project. Everyone makes fun of me because it's like, okay, they'll, they'll kind of come up with something and I'll be like, this is awesome. And then 10 minutes later, it's like completely different than what it is, what it was, but it somehow makes sense. So yeah, I would say that. And I think that back, mean, maybe that'll change in a couple of years, but right now I, I heard this quote the other day that was like, if your business can't run without you, you're not running a business, you're an employee. And there. I'm like, well, I am most certainly an employee because I like right now I'm not at that phase and that's just me being honest, right? It doesn't run like a well-oiled machine. Like I was listening to Zoe Feldman's podcast with you and how they had someone come in and kind of do like their whole processing. And I think like that's the goal, right? It's just being realistic where we are right now. It's not, but I'm trying to get to that point so that it can run smoothly without me, but that's just not, it's not there yet. AC: Yeah, I mean, it's not there yet after one year. Yeah, that's reasonable. I do think that it's really important to remember and is this something that I have to like study and sit with in my own businesses all the time because, you know, we've been doing this for almost 10 years now. We waited so long to have our baby. And I was like, everything's running itself, which is true. But at the end of the day, I keep coming back to the fact that people are hiring us for me and what I'm capable of doing and my thoughts and my planning. I think when you're running a design firm, that's even more so true. And so I think that you don't need to rush being at the point where you just let everything run. Obviously that's the goal someday, but I think for a while people are hiring you all the time, apparently, because they want to work with you. KH: Like the back end of it could run without me, you know, like where I could just really do the stuff that I like to do, which is actually design stuff, right? So, and I mean, we'll get there eventually, you know, like we were, we were talking about before the procurement thing makes sense right now, but maybe in three years, it won't make sense, right? It won't make sense in terms of profitability, but I think it's right now, this is the best it's going to get. And it allows me to be involved in every single project and really like actually still design every single project without having to do like all of the work by myself. So yeah, I would say that's what it is right now. Who knows what the hell it'll be in two years or six months even. I don't know, but that's what it is. AC: All right, I've got some rapid fire questions I want to get through before we really dig into the social side of things, which is where you've like super blown up. So let's just talk about pricing, get it out of the way. What has led you to choose a flat rate hourly or hybrid model and has that shifted in your year of business? KH: Sounds so ridiculous. Yeah, I mean, it shifted like 10 times. Okay, like I have talked to so many different designers who, by the way, like, I feel like I have, you know, a good group of people around me that are just so generous with their time and their advice, which was like a huge help. I started like with flat rates, right? And I even tried like dipping my foot into square footage for a little bit. And I felt like it was I always got a yes, to be honest, which was like, maybe I'm not charging enough, but I always got a yes because I think it was very cut and dry. People saw like, okay, this is the rate, this is how much we're doing. Like, this is the price, this is what it is. So it was very easy to, I guess just, it was very easy to communicate that with the customer, which I thought was nice, right? But then you realize you can get screwed a little bit because if someone's a really difficult client and you flat rated them and then you're kind of stuck, right? So I talked to another designer that's kind of like really mentored me over the last, I'll give her a shout out Stephanie Krauss, who I love out of Philadelphia where I'm originally from. But she was like, you're insane. Like you should not be flat rating anyone. Like you have to take a look at how long each of these projects are gonna take you. And then you need to give the client the hourly estimate and then say, this is what it is. We usually get really close to this, but we could go over. Okay. We could go over. We could go under. We never really go under, but you, you could go over, right? That way that if that way, if it's a difficult client and not getting screwed. So we are now doing that. And to be honest with you, I like it much better. Everyone on my team has the same hourly rate just because it makes it easier for like billing. And if it's a new build, it's like a thousand hours. If it's a renovation. I always laugh because Stephanie's like, it's a renovation. And anybody tells me I got a guy, the rate like doubles because I need to know like who the architect is, who this person is. She makes me laugh. But and she's also kind of helped with like our hourly estimates to just to make sure that we're like really in the right zone, which has been unbelievably helpful. She did not need to do that at all. So that's how we're doing it now. So it's more I guess it's more of a hybrid at this point, but it's really an hourly estimate. And then we kind of go, we kind of even out on like the last payment, separate payments into four or five throughout the project and that's how we've been doing it. So each marker we're letting them know like how many hours they're at and if they're going over, if they're not, because I think even weirdly if someone's a little bit difficult, if they see how many hours they're going over, they start to be a little less difficult pretty quickly. So that's been helpful. The flat rate was easy to present to a client but a mistake in my mind for our business. AC: Especially while you are still gathering that numeric data when you don't have 20 plus completed projects where you know exactly how long it took you to do those projects. Yeah, so I definitely agree that it takes it takes years and years to get to the point where flat rate can really make sense and prove that it is profitable. So I love that and I love that strategy of you have four or five check-ins of this is where you are on that hours and they can see Oh God, we still have six months of this project and we're already close to that. So I would love to go with the table you selected. KH: Yeah, I think it actually, and actually it kind of, keeps us accountable too, like for the client, because I think sometimes the clients feel like, like someone's asking me for all this money upfront and then like, who the hell knows? They could just, it could take forever and they could walk away. And I think for us, it's like, hey, guess what? We're not getting paid until we get to this other checkpoint. So let's like, keep it going here. And I think they like the aspect of that too, that there's accountability on our side. Like we're not getting paid our next payment until we present these options. And I like that for everyone, just as like a consumer too. I wouldn't want someone taking my money and then not knowing when the project was gonna finish, right? So I think that that has made people a lot more comfortable, especially like our rates have obviously gone up quite a bit just from demand at this point. So I think that it makes the whole process run a little bit more smoothly and it also gives us, it makes our scheduling easier with projects as well. Cause we know like when things are, when things are due, it helps us break the projects down better than we originally did. So I think that's, we're sticking to that for, for now, guess pricing is everyone's biggest issue, right? I don't know. AC: Yeah, no, I think that's a really unique and really interesting model that I'm gonna like get off this call and like start hashing it out and start drawing it out. Cause I'm like, wow, that's so smart. Okay, but I do want to get to spend a little chunk of time on social media strategy because I mentioned in the intro to this show just how impossible it feels to see growth like you have on Instagram of 50,000 plus followers in a year like people were experiencing eight to 10 years ago, and it's just not happening anymore. So can you share what specific tactics, if there was strategy to it, that you used to really grow your Instagram following in this past year? KH: Yeah, I think there's a few things. I did hire a social media person, like her name's Carly Reed, she works for, she started Lemon Water Group, I'll give her a little plug there, cause she's the best. I do think that Instagram specifically is like the algorithms and everything, it's crazy. Like there's no keeping up with it, right? So you really do need someone who understands that aspect of it. I mean, it was, I laughed so hard because there's like one, one of my posts was just like a static picture and have like three hashtags and like, what is this girl doing? This is not gonna get, and this is not gonna go anywhere. Cause you know, you're used to like hashtagging 8,000 different things or like tagging people and thinking that's gonna, you know, help your post. But I'll tell you what like the biggest thing was that she's taught me is like the trending audio is major, right? So I won't post anything without something being trending audio. And the other thing is if I see it getting, like a lot of likes upfront, I'll boost it. I'll boost it. So it's like, and I don't consider it cheating really because it's like, it's the game, right? It's exactly, you're spending money on advertising at some point. It's, that's what it is. So boost it. That doesn't mean I'm spending thousands of dollars to boost my posts, but the boosting is what actually helps. When it's like a, when it's a trending song and you notice that it's like catching on, the boosting helps. I will say between that and then, just listening to her advice with like even just the like, do not make your reels outside of Instagram. That was like another big thing. Once we stopped doing that, we got a lot more traction on reels, but even like the stat like the carousels, like she was telling me months ago, she's like, the carousels are back. You need to do the carousels like with the static pictures and do it to trending audio because that's what's getting picked up and she's right. So it really is like, it's weirdly scientific. I wish that I had a better answer, but that's the thing. If I see something trending even with my followers, I'll boost it. And that's what's been helping me. I also think that I've had a couple reels really take off and it's, as silly as it sounds, syncing the damn audio with the clips of your post or the pictures that you're putting in the reel actually really helps. It's like people, they like to have the they like it to visually line up with what they're hearing and that's made a huge difference. I think I'm not doing enough honestly on social media. I mean, there's like nothing of me on there. There's no like behind the scenes or talking. My intern makes fun of me like every day, which I love, but she's like, you don't have anything on your Instagram. Like you gotta start talking on it. You have to start doing this. And she's probably right. But right now it's worked for what it is. I, the best advice I can give is a trending audio thing because that is what changed everything for us was using that and using it wisely with each post. AC: So a couple follow up questions. Typically when you say that you boost a post, how much, how much are you throwing at a post? KH: 100 bucks, like 100 bucks for like five days or something. And that's been super helpful. I mean, if you think about how much money it costs for PR, right? And what you're spending for that, you spend 500 bucks over five days to boost it and it's helping your follow count. I'm not saying it's going to help every time, but if something catches on, you'll start seeing it and then you can keep the boost going for longer. Right? I'm not saying do it for every one, but you have it's business. You have to look at that metrics and see what's working. And it's a game, unfortunately, because Instagram is not like it was, like you said, eight or 10 years ago, when people were just getting like blowing up for no reason. It's all about the algorithm, the sounds and like what you're putting out there and what Instagram is actually giving time to. So right now it's like the static carousels. Again, it's not even so much reels. So I would say those things, and then you really need to actually pay attention to the metrics and see when you should be boosting something. Because if you're not, then you're missing an opportunity. And they know that, which is why they're charging you to boost it. AC: I will give that bit of a caveat that if you really think about if you want to start investing in your Instagram posts and start putting money to it, because it's definitely a pay to play situation. And after Instagram knows that you're willing to boost a post, then your other organic posts are not going to get the same traction as they could have organically. But like you said, Kristin, that I think is so smart, it's like, well, if you don't have money for PR right now, or you don't have money for social media team, or to outsource that or bring someone on, you can say, hey, I can put $1,500 a month towards boosting posts that I'm super proud of or that have done really well, whether that is a big press piece or a project reveal, or even, like you said, like behind the scenes, or it's a talking post that's doing really well, to go ahead and allocate budget to that. Just be prepared that after Instagram knows that you're willing to pay to play, then they will continue to want you to do that. KH: Oh yeah, that is accurate. I actually don't do it as much anymore, right? In the beginning when I had like nothing, right? Like I really, I would boost, but now it's kind of the trending audio has kind of helped me more than anything else. Yeah. So I would say too, I think it's like a good, in my mind, like you said, it's good. It's definitely good if you're not paying for PR or something to, it's a game, right? It's like the risk that you take, like is it going to work or is it not going to work? So I agree. AC: I also want to reiterate a point that you made, Kristen, that I think was so helpful, that a lot of your reels that have done really, really well are not even video. You're literally just taking slideshows of portfolio images set to trending music. And those, just when I pull up your views real quick, easily, that anybody can go see, those are often some of your highest counts. And so, like you said, having that set using the Instagram templated reels. You can find a template that'll set it to the trending music and it'll tell you, this one's 0.2 seconds, this one's 0.3 seconds, and you just drop that content in and make it within Instagram, but those will be rewarded by the algorithm. KH: Yes. And the funny thing is, is like, don't even think I have any video on there. Like everything is static. So it's not like my Instagram is incredibly creative. It's just kind of like, you have to figure out how to work the system, which is unfortunate in a lot of ways, but it's the truth. And if it, that's why the funny thing about like this whole business was that like I was saying, the internet's just fake. It's like playing the internet, right? Which I sound like I'm not actually good at my job, but it's not that it's just there's so many other aspects of it than just designing, I think, which is the hardest part for people to swallow. It's not just making good, like having a good result or a good picture anymore. It's like, you have to do all the things. laughed at Lauren Liess was, lives near me and she's a friend of mine. We were laughing. She was like, you can't just like close the picture anymore. You have to be like videoing yourself and doing all these things. And it takes more time than actually designing. So I think it's having that in your mind. It isn't just, you can be a really good designer and have no traction on social media. And that's must be incredibly frustrating to a lot of people that I know. And it's a shame, but it's the way the world works right now. And maybe it'll be different in a couple of years, but you have to figure out how to play the game or you're not going to get any traction. So it's a kind of a double edged sword, I guess, but that's the way we figured it out. AC: I will say, talking to you, it's actually really hopeful and helpful because it's like, yeah, you just had your portfolio images and you learned to use the tools that are provided to you from Instagram in order to leverage the game that they have set up. So I actually think that this conversation is probably a huge relief to a lot of people because it's like, great, I don't have to be dancing around on camera. I don't have to be talking to the camera. I don't have to hire a videography team. I can make this work just by following the tools that they are literally giving me. KH: Yeah, and it's also persistence. I notice the more I post my stories every day, the more and more organic followers I get. Even when it's just stories and you're not actually posting to your grid, like Instagram kind of rewards that, right? And I also think like you guys, IDCO definitely has stuff for Pinterest, like people always forget about Pinterest. But I think making sure all of your posts are like linked with your Pinterest and kind of doing that in tandem with another, with one another is really helpful too. And to be honest, like, the design world really isn't on TikTok that much. Like it's very interesting to me because I don't see a lot of people, a lot of like design people really getting into TikTok that much. And I'm not either, so I don't know why I'm judging it, but I like, see, I see a gap there. So I think for people too, that maybe are getting traction on Instagram, there's other avenues to explore. And Pinterest is a big one that most people don't really mess with too much. And I'm like, that's like your, that could be your real moneymaker, is Pinterest. AC: I am sure you have heard me say this, but I'm like such a Pinterest, like Pinterest is priority all the time. I'm actually excited because this season we are talking with a Pinterest SEO expert. And so like we will break that down so explicitly, but I'm like, I love Pinterest. It always, it always feels good. It just like is your biggest traffic driver. Okay. Couple last questions. Looking back over your long career of your best… KH: Oh my God. Shut up, its embarrassing. AC: No, it's incredible. It's so refreshing to hear that like, hey, this can happen and it can be a quick trajectory. It's amazing. So looking back, what do you think was your most pivotal business or marketing decision that really accelerated your growth? KH: The PR. The PR was the biggest thing. It was really just like taking a risk on yourself and just investing in something that you didn't even know existed yet. And I think that's like a lot of entrepreneurs do that, right? They put their money out there, let it linger for a minute and it might work or it might not. I think that was like the biggest thing. And the other thing was just like pure ignorance was the best thing I could have done because I truly don't think and I said this before, but if I knew everything I knew now, I would just have not done it. I would have been scared. So I think those two things, full blown ignorance and also investing in myself before I really had the money to do it and not worrying about a profit right away was the biggest pivotal moment, was just being like, I don't need a profit right now. I need people to know who I am. So those two, I would say. AC: I also just want to thank you for your candor in the sense that, you know, we've had people come on and say like, oh I wasn't paying myself. I was living off of my husband's salary or my partner's salary or whatever that is, which I know is a fantastic unique situation. But the fact that you were doing it because you were also working full time, making your own salary, I think is a really important thing for people to hear that like. Yes, you weren't paying yourself in the business, but it's because you were still earning a salary elsewhere and you just put in that grind in order to have that financial freedom to not worry about having to make a profit right away. KH: Yeah, and I think actually that's the way 99% of the world lives. You can't just leave your job, OK? That's just not possible for 99% of people. And my husband does very well, but I could never just quit my job without knowing that's something. That's just me personally. I couldn't. I mean, also, he wouldn't let me. I don't think he would. He wouldn't let me do it. He would be like, yeah, nice try. But we live in a very expensive area, right? So it just, it's it's not reality. It's not reality to just be like, you know what? I want to be a designer and I'm going to quit my job and everything is going to be great. And you know, I was carrying the benefits too. I carried the health care. I carried like everything. His company obviously offers stuff like that. But like the benefits that I got were so wonderful at my old job. But that was like a huge part of me too. That was like, I can't just quit unless this is really something because I am carrying benefits for three kids. And my husband and all these other like wonderful things that we were getting, you you, you think of like your IRA and all the other stuff that you, you deal with that are like very comfortable with a corporate job. And most people can't, but I will tell you that it is very possible to do both of the same time. You just have to like not have a life for a bit. AC: Absolutely. Okay, as we get ready to wrap up, this has been such a good conversation. I do like to end every show with just like any sort of top secret projects or collaborations or launches you have coming up or even projects you can tell us a little bit about. KH: So we actually just photographed three new projects, which is really exciting. And like we kind of like joke that the last, the things that people see on our Instagram are very like Bungalow 10 of us. They're very like clean and white walled and like the new stuff is very, it has a lot more color in it, which I think is fun. I have a hardware line coming out with Art and Forge who actually are based in Virginia, but they have some really cool stuff. And I drew that, I actually reached out to them because I was like, I want this hardware and I can't find it. And I just I drew it, like, can you make it? And then we kind of, it's organically turned into something, which is really exciting. And then cabinetry launching in October, like at the next market with Unique Kitchens and Baths. So that's fun. And we're excited about that too, just cause I think being able to draw, you know, the faces of the cabinetry and actually pick some cool colors that maybe people don't normally see is exciting for us in general. So those two things are coming and then the new shoots. So we have a lot coming. There actually haven't been very, a lot of new content on our Instagram for a long time, which I also think is funny. So I think the next like three months, you're gonna be seeing a lot of new stuff. That's nothing like the old stuff. AC: Well, that is all so exciting. Congratulations on those major collaborations. Those are huge. I love that you're working with local companies that are local to you, but hugely national brands. So congratulations to that. Kristin, I cannot thank you enough. It was so helpful to get this directly from your mouth, right as it's happening. And there was just so many key takeaways. I really, really enjoyed our convo today. KH: Yeah, me too. Thanks for having me. I know you have some wonderful people on this show. So I'm very honored to have been included. AC: Well, chalk your name up there, sister. All right, we'll talk soon, Kristen. KH: All right, thanks so much. AC: For more in-depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples, and more, don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes or at patreon.com/theInteriorCollective. Thank you so, so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. A big, huge thank you to our production team at IDCO Studio and Kwin Made. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible. And the biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible. Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is The Interior Collective a podcast for the business of beautiful living. This fall, Loloi introduced beautiful new collections with collaborators such as Leanne Ford, Brigette Romanek, and Amber Lewis, not to mention its own line of impeccable handcrafted rugs. As I learned in my interview with Cyrus Loloi earlier this season, the family-run company has always put quality over quantity from the moment it was founded by Amir Loloi in 2004. The proof is in his beautiful collections, which you can see at LoloiRugs.com. L-O-L-O-I rugs.com.