[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Today's guest is Nicole Salceda, founder of i4 Pretty. Nicole has built a highly visible brand at the intersection of interior design, retail and digital influence. But what makes her story especially compelling is not just how she grew so quickly, but actually how she chose to scale back with intention.
In today's episode, we're talking about what happens when growth outpaces alignment, how to downsize without feeling like you failed, and what it really means to be an influencer designer in today's market.
We also get into her team structure partnerships with builders, brick and mortar retail, and how custom spec builds have reshaped her revenue model. If you've ever questioned whether bigger automatically means better, this conversation is worth a listen.
[00:00:56] Speaker C: This season is presented by Laloy, the family owned home textile brand known for its innovative craft and meticulous design. At High Point Market this spring, Laloy just debuted Rain a rug collection with a new and rare construction along with a fresh season of rugs, pillows and wall art in collaboration with Rifle Paper Company. See everything new at Loloi rugs.com that's L O L O I rugs.com and follow Laloy Ruggs on Instagram and TikTok. Today's episode is sponsored by Design Assist, the staffing solution built for interior design firms starting around $12.50 an hour. It's professional production support with full time overhead. Scale smarter with designassist.com IDECO that's design
[00:01:37] Speaker B: with a Z.
Hi Nicole, welcome to the show. I can't believe that day has come because you just reminded me. Last time we saw each other was the night that Lindsay and I came up with the concept of design camp. So I mean that was a long time ago.
[00:01:54] Speaker A: I know. I think it was what, maybe like 2018? I don't know. It's so, so good to be chatting with you and to see you.
[00:02:01] Speaker B: I'm so grateful for your time today. I'm really excited to dig into this because I feel like having lived through the COVID boom and what people experienced with immense growth in most cases, if anybody's listening that didn't feel that way. It, it was not universal by any means, but it was just like crazy, crazy growth and so much opportunity and projects just knocking down your door and things are shifting a little bit both internally with like what people actually want to maintain and have in a day to day life as a business owner and also like what the market has really changed as well. So thank you for being so open to talking about this. Let's go ahead and Dig in.
Nicole. Let's start at the height of your growth. When I, for pretty, was expanding so quickly, what did that season of business actually look like from a public perspective and also behind the scenes?
[00:03:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I really started on Instagram and social media, so I was taking everyone along for the ride with me in real time.
Um, as most of you know, us business designers, I mean, business owners know that we all start by wearing all of the hats and doing all of the things. I feel like I was a little bit, like, building the plane in the air and looking back on it. I wish I had gone back and started with more of the foundation before I jumped in with both feet, but I didn't. So it was a little bit, you know, like a duck floating where I was frantically kicking under the water. But things looked calm and smooth, you know, on the top. So, yeah, it was definitely a hard season.
And I was saying yes to everything, doing all of the things, until I really found my people and started to hire out for those positions that I no longer wanted to do or could do.
[00:04:01] Speaker B: Okay, so at that point, let's just, like, lay the framework of you were taking on projects. What type of projects were those? It was solely you at that point or you had someone else. What. What did business operations look like for you at that time?
[00:04:16] Speaker A: Yeah, so at the height. I mean, I had fully built my team, I think at the height of the eye for pretty boom, I would say I had close to 30 employees. And take in mind that's with the retail location as well.
So that was just a couple years ago, actually. So on the design side, I had, you know, three technical senior designers, I had design assistants, I had my head of operations, I had my business manager, and then I had the shop team as well. So it's a lot of. It was a lot of people to manage.
And I think that was really the point where I had to look, you know, deep within and think, is this sustainable?
Is this really where I see the business. Business going? And at the same time, I had my children growing up, so that was always, you know, at the forefront of, you know, trying to find balance, which I know that's such a hard thing to find, but it was. It was really challenging. So I really had to stop and. And really reflect on is this sustainable for the long term?
[00:05:24] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Bria Hamill once told me, and I'll never forget it, she's like, I don't really believe in work life balance. It is a juggle all the time. And it's just what ball is in the air that you're focused on.
But looking at, you know, managing 30 people, a retail store, an influencer social media Persona plus a designer, that's a lot of balls in the air to even try to bring family and your, your kids into that as well.
Let's, let's talk about what it was like at that peak for people who maybe haven't been following you since then.
I think I just touched on a little bit. You had opened retail, you were at that point, you were office out of it as well. Correct. You were using it as your design studio, plus it was retail.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: So actually at the height, I had two spaces, so I had the design studio and then I had the brick and mortar as well.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: Got it. And at that time there was also this influencer side of things because you did really take people on the journey with your projects as well as like taste making. So how much, if you had to like divide up your business into a pie, how much percentage was really in each portion?
[00:06:44] Speaker A: I mean, I would say, you know, the, the influencer side of things that obviously fueled the growth. And remember I started 10 years ago when Instagram, the algorithm was so simple and so manageable. Right. And that really fueled that growth was just being, you know, in front of a lot of eyes.
So I think where that growth stemmed from is people found me very relatable. And I know we kind of have this stigma sometimes with design that, you know, it's, it's behind the curtains and it's very mysterious and I love that sometimes. But for me, where I found the most value was when I showed the good, the bad, everything about my life and what really, truly went into running a business in the design side.
So yeah, so I would say that part. And so that was a big part of the, of the pie. And then my design business was probably 50% and the retail was maybe like 20%. The retail started slow. The retail really came from a desire of not being able to take on that many projects anymore because we were so busy and we just didn't have the bandwidth. And I really wanted to bring a little bit of eye for pretty into people's homes. So that's where the retail started. Started as just a pop up shop. You know, I know Lindsay started with her sip and shops. We had a very similar model where, hey, let's do it once a month, let's see who shows up. And then it kind of took off from there.
[00:08:21] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
I think what came, what was a big contributor to Your exponential growth.
You. You were always on camera. You were really good about showing up on camera. You were so relatable. But you also, like, lived in exactly the area that you served. Like, you basically were your ideal client. And so I think that your, like, brand was really clear from that standpoint.
And so when, you know, during COVID when people were stuck in their houses and they were thinking about their remodels and everything, they were able to, like, literally just watch you. You were just going through it.
At what point do you feel like that pace of growth maybe wasn't aligned with what you actually wanted?
[00:09:11] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, it wasn't like an overnight light bulb moment, per se. I think it was a lot of little things. I touched a little bit on having the two locations I remember there being. And I did sign my lease right before COVID so I did go through a period of a year or so where we really were not utilizing that space at all. I would go in and work in there by myself. But even after Covid and a few years into the studio space, there was a day where I was looking around, and it was. I was in this empty, beautiful studio by myself.
So I do pride myself on the fact that I have always given my employees and contractors a lot of autonomy and freedom. I actually never set schedules unless we were having client meetings or we were having a team meeting. But I really let everyone work on their own schedule. And I feel like that helped us in a lot of ways. But it also, you know, was a little bit of a disservice to me as the owner, because there were things like the studio where it just wasn't. It wasn't making sense anymore. So there was things like that.
You know, there were market trips I would take my team on, and there'd be 10 of us at market, and I would feel like I was kind of on an island alone, by myself, because they were off doing things, and, you know, it just wasn't. It wasn't sustainable. And I also said, you know, I had these growing kids and, you know, now having a baby, how important it is to be there, and you don't want to miss a thing.
Especially when they're teenagers, you know, the. The problems and the emotions just get bigger. And I think I really realized how fast time was flying by, and I wanted to be there for them. So something had to give.
[00:10:55] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Was it. Was it an internal conversation you had. Did you have this conversation with your partner?
Your. Your husband, business partner? Was it a conversation that came up with your Team. Like, I'm so curious as to when action was taken upon these feelings.
[00:11:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I was very open with my team about, you know, kind of what I was feeling and having conversations.
I think that was fueled by a really supportive husband at home, you know, who was telling me, like, hey, if you're feeling this way, you know, you need to. You need to do something about it.
I'm not really the person that kind of just sticks it out because I was worried about failing in any sense, you know, because in my mind, I have. I have done a lot of what I accomplished and set out to do, which is so amazing in just 10 short years. You know, of course, there's things that I still want to do, but I never really felt like it was. It was a failure. And, you know, at the time, many of my designers were ready to go off on their own. A lot of them had come to me, and they were already designing for themselves or designing for another firm. And some of them are ready to go out in the world and be on their own. And I was, you know, happy to. To say goodbye to them and let them go and, you know, live out their dreams. So it kind of was a natural progression of a little bit of.
I was ready for change, they were ready for change. And then what does that look like for all of us?
[00:12:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
Okay, let's get practical really quickly before we dig in to the nitty gritty of scaling back.
How do you currently charge. Are you flat rate, hourly? Percentage of construction, product markup, hybrid?
[00:12:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, we've done it all. And I know you talk a lot of designers who have. You have. You kind of have to. To figure out what works for you. So we started hourly.
Over the years, we've tracked so much data on what that looks like, we are now currently flat fee.
And then we're hourly after that based on, you know, after the project has wrapped, we come on for consulting hours, and that's. That's all billed hourly. So our proposals and our time estimates, we've really become very clear and detailed on what that flat, flat rate will entail. And I think our clients really appreciate it because they know what they're in for right off the bat. There's no questions.
There's no monthly bills coming. And what. How many bills, how many hours am I going to get billed this month? It takes out a lot of the guesswork for them, and that's worked really well for us.
[00:13:35] Speaker B: Can we talk about how you started gathering that data, especially as you were building up to that Height of growth. When you're talking about, you know, you said that 30 included your retail store as well. But let's say, okay, it's 15 people, everybody's building back hours. How did you.
How did you really start to collect that data to now, at this point, feel super comfortable saying, this is your flat rate?
[00:13:56] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's just being very transparent with your team about how they're tracking their time. Obviously, I know there's gonna be things that we.
There's gonna be time we don't bill for. That's just how it goes. But I think just being very clear and using something like Clockify, you know, using having that app to just track every single minute that you can, and then just making sure that you're going back and revisiting the project when it's finished and really looking at, okay, where did we lose time? Where do we make up time?
And obviously there's going to be things that come up, like the client. You don't know how decisive the client is. Right. So just being sure that you're accounting for all of that time in there as well, and you're accounting for your losses in there, and it's never going to be perfect. I think I learned something still from every single project that we take on. But we're very upfront with our clients. If the project is starting to creep, the scope is creeping, and I always send in my head of operations to have those tough calls with them. This is why that it's creeping, and this is the extra time they're going to be billed for. So just being very transparent, I think, is the way to go.
[00:15:10] Speaker B: You mentioned that you've never, like, enforced people to be in office. You've never enforced, like, working hours.
How did you find the trust to make sure that people were tracking their time? Tracking their time accurately, as you protect your clients, but also, like, as you protect yourself, like you said, you always know that there's going to be a loss of time that doesn't get tracked. Like there's billable time. For someone, ideally, it's 60% of their time is actually billable time. But when you're not sitting there over their shoulder, how do you feel like you fostered a work culture where people were confident in tracking those hours, honestly, while you're not in the same room with them?
[00:15:55] Speaker A: That's a really hard question.
I think that's trust is obviously built over time, you know, and I wouldn't say that we were never together, not at all. I definitely would check in with them on Zoom and we'd have meetings.
So I think, you know, at the end of the day I still was very hands on and am very hands on with every project. So again, I think it's about building and having the right people around you.
And I think that is part of my scaling back as well, is that I've been very intentional about the company that I keep and the people that I keep around me.
You know, just building that, having that trust with them and, you know, meeting with them weekly or, you know, every other week to kind of go over everything that they're doing.
[00:16:45] Speaker B: When you're talking about the height of I for pretty and say it was 30 plus or minus people, were all of those people local or were some of those people remote? Were you ever open to that?
[00:16:58] Speaker A: You know, most of them were local at the time. And now I do have a few remote girls, especially girls that are working remotely to do a lot of our Just E designs. But at the height of it, it was mostly local women. And whether I met them, you know, Instagram, a lot of them have come to me through Instagram or I met them through other designers or, you know, that network.
Yeah, most of them were in person.
[00:17:28] Speaker B: Amazing. Okay, so we talked about how you set up your pricing structure. Can we also talk about your markup structure and what that looks like? Has that changed since downsizing? Has that had to shift and kind of where you're sitting with that, I
[00:17:45] Speaker A: think if anything it just reinforced how intentional we are with the markups. You know, we are obviously taking on a very limited number of projects. So whenever we do take on a project, we're making sure that the client is, you know, that we are very transparent with the process, where the markups are coming from. We protect those markups. Emergence with everything. You know, we're never charging above retail. It just depends what tier we're at with our vendor, if we're going to give a little bit of a discount back to the client.
So again, I think it just all comes back to transparency.
It's no surprise that that's how we make a lot of our money. So I feel like I'm looking for the clients that are going to trust that it's a, it's a one stop shop, that we're going to do everything from start to finish for them and they realize the value in that. So those are the clients that we're really looking for.
[00:18:46] Speaker B: How, how are you creating your post, your proposals? Now? You said that it's going to be, correct me if I'M wrong. But you said it's flat rate, and I'm assuming that's through the completion of design and then it moves over to hourly if you are project managing at any sort of capacity.
Also, how does install work? I don't think we got as far as that.
[00:19:05] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, so we actually take our, our design fee and the flat rate is through furniture as well.
So oftentimes, you know, we'll have a project that's two years out from being built. So, you know, we, we always want our clients to start sooner than later. So we will have a flat rate through the design portion of it, even sourcing that furniture. And when we hand over this beautiful spec book to them, everything is dialed in. And you know, say they start the project a year from now and they're buying furniture 18 months from now, then they're coming back on to consult with us.
Say, you know, the, the chair is out of stock now. Right. Or something. Lighting is discontinued.
That's where the consulting hours come in. And it works really well for us because what we found is if we break it out into phases, we lose that client. Sometimes we lose the potential to buy them furniture. Right. Because maybe they're tapped out on their budget on construction. So that's why we really try to sell the value of this flat rate model from the very beginning. And then we bring on those, we do those consulting hours for them.
[00:20:23] Speaker B: Wait, Nicole, this is so smart. I've never heard this model.
[00:20:27] Speaker A: It's new for us. Newish. We've been really fine tuning it in the last year. And if you think about it, it really makes sense. Right? Because I talk to so many designers and the conversation I'm hearing all the time is my client ran out of money. You know, they don't have the budget anymore for the furniture. And when you lose out on furniture, not only are you losing out on all of that markup, you're losing out on the marketing potential, you're losing out on photography. All of that is gone.
Sure, you built this beautiful shell of a house, but it's never comes to fruition in your, with your vision.
Well, how do we protect that? We build that in, in the front, and we're going to give it all to you. We're going to give you the spec book. You're going to have every single piece of furniture, art, lighting, everything is going to be there. And then down the road, if you want to make changes, that's where we're going to come back in.
[00:21:24] Speaker D: Got it?
[00:21:24] Speaker B: Okay. So if someone gets you know, they're doing a full new construction or project that's going to be fully furnished. They work with you through that. Construction starts when, when does procurement for your team come in and is that done? Is that part of that hourly consulting part or is that. It is.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: Procurement is not included. Yeah, in the first. In the flat rate at all. So procurement and consulting, project management is all billed hourly once they're ready for that phase.
And a lot of our clients bring us in during, you know, because I want to hand the spec book over before, you know, foundation is poured. So they have that spec book, the contractor has it. And then once they're in construction, sure. They're probably going to come back to us and say, wait, I have a question about this, or can we tweak this so we're billing during that time? And then they say, hey, you know, we're six months out from lighting, let's start to purchase the lighting. Then they pay us for our procurement and all of that. So it's really, it's really been life changing for me.
[00:22:32] Speaker B: That is very clever.
Yeah. I remember when we had Heidi on the show, Heidi Callier, she was talking about how, you know, she does full construction furnishings, all one presentation, like done. And that got me really thinking about the fact that, yeah, you aren't getting burned on someone who's not gonna be to get to all the. Or even, even if they can do some furnishings, it's not all of it. And that potential, like you said, that potential marketing avenue is basically gone if they're only getting like the most bare bones foundations.
That is fascinating. Okay, so for the procurement part, are you billing procurement hourly in that consulting fee or is procurement a percentage?
[00:23:12] Speaker A: We're billing hourly, so that just seems to work for us and yeah, that works for us hourly.
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[00:24:31] Speaker B: this episode is brought to you by Design Assist.
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[00:25:06] Speaker B: Okay, so let's talk about where you are now. So we've talked about what it was like at the peak.
I am in love with your current model, with how you handle your proposals and everything.
But how big is the team now? You said you're so selective about how many projects you take on. What are those numbers? Like, how many people are on the team and what's like a perfect number of projects a year for you?
[00:25:28] Speaker A: Yeah. So I have two technical senior designers that actually take on the majority of our client work.
I have my head of operations, Rochelle, and she does everything from new client inquiries through the procurement.
I have my business manager who's been with me since started, which is amazing. And so she's on the back end doing a lot of our, you know, QuickBooks. And I have my accountant team and my CPA, obviously.
And then in shop, I have a shop manager and I have probably about eight associates that work in the shop right now.
So.
And I should say that all of them are contractors. I am the only employee now, so I've done it both ways. In the past 10 years, I've had where pretty much everyone was an employee.
I've had a mix of contractors and employees. And I feel like this is the best for me right now is that everyone is a contractor.
I don't feel the pressure to have to fill their schedule or give them a certain amount of hours they could take on their own side projects.
I just feel like this is, this is a healthy balance for me right now.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: Let's talk about the concept of them being able to take on their own side projects because obviously legally that is the biggest differentiator between employee and contractor. How as a studio owner and as a creative, how do you kind of wrap your head around like it's okay that they're doing work for other people?
How did you get to the headspace of being like, this is what's best for me and what's best for them?
[00:27:07] Speaker A: Right.
That is a good question. So they're doing work for themselves. I don't have any. Anyone else that's working for another design firm. And again, I think I told you most of these women came on because they had started their design career before they met me, so they were already taking on their own projects.
I think when you come from a place of there's enough work for everyone.
I'm not in competition with anyone but myself, that kind of changes things for you. And I'm able to cheer them on and be happy for their successes. When they come on to do an Eye for Pretty project, I know that they're all in on the Eye for Pretty project, that I, at the end of the day, have the ultimate say on what goes out of our studio. It's under our brand aesthetic and umbrella and they're okay with that. So I do think you have to be secure in yourself as the owner to let go of some of that.
[00:28:08] Speaker B: I think you're coming from such a uniquely admirable position in the sense of you were scaling back because you guys could have so many projects, so you have sort of a reverse scarcity mindset. Like you're like, I know that there's the work out there because people are banging on our door.
And so at the top of the show, you really talked about scaling back with intention and intention's like such a buzzword, but I know that you meant it so methodically.
What does scaling with intention mean to you now? Kind of on the other side of the scale back?
[00:28:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think it means that we, our design studio is really focused on taking on projects that are with clients that value us, that understand our value and are working with us for a specific reason. And that reason usually is because they know that we're going to deliver a very custom hands on home and project and not saying yes to to everything. I know there was a phase of my life, I'm sure there's a phase of your life where you had to say yes to everything. Right. You were growing so quickly and so many amazing opportunities were coming to you. But now I'm at this phase of my life where those yeses are few and far between. And they're very. I'm very intentional about what I say yes to.
[00:29:45] Speaker B: Mm.
Nicole, my brain is still catching up from your, like, amazing pricing proposal because
[00:29:54] Speaker A: you have the best. The best on your show. So I was just hoping I could give you a new little something.
[00:29:59] Speaker B: Oh, my God. I do have one question as we talk back about. As we talk about that.
So in your contract, are they obligated to purchase the furniture with you? Because in that model, I see how there could be room for someone like, great. All this is spect. Now I'm going to have Sally sue down the street actually do the ordering.
[00:30:20] Speaker A: So there is in our contract, it does says that. Does say that we will do the procurement. Now, how is that really enforced?
Say it's a year and a half down the road, and our clients are really. I can't do it. I cannot purchase. I'm going to use all of my old furniture from our old house, and we're going to make it work. Work.
I mean, could I go after them? Sure. Is it worth it for me to do that? No.
So I think there's a.
There's a fine line that you walk there. So it does say, yes, that we are doing the procurement. Can they. Are there ways that they could get out of it? Sure.
Am I going to.
[00:30:59] Speaker B: I don't even mean. I don't even necessarily mean them moving forward with purchasing the furniture. Technically, they could take it to another designer and be like, I have the designs. Can you just do the purchase?
[00:31:08] Speaker A: Oh, that is specifically in our contract that they cannot do that. That they have breached contract. Yes. And then I will have. I do have the means to go after that.
[00:31:18] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. So let's get back to downsizing, because my brain has now caught up to our conversation.
What were.
What were, like, the first concrete changes you made when you decided to downsize you. I know you said that some of the girls were, like, ready to go off on their own. So that was like a more organic, you know, kind of an easier version of it.
What were some of those other things that you were like, this is happening, and, you know, did it all happen in six months? Did it happen over the course of a year?
[00:31:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say it happened slowly. I would say probably over the course of a year. I mean, the first big one is that I got rid of my design studio.
It was really hard. Not because it was coming from a place of we needed it. It was hard because it was. It was my first kind of baby and my first dream. So I had beautiful. I had to let go of some of that dream and what, you know, that looked like. But when I really thought about it, it came down to, you know, what is the intention of my studio? Where do I see this going?
It's not to say I have all of these studios all over, and I have a brick and mortar. It was really to. To feel good about what I was doing and who I was surrounding myself with. And I didn't need a studio anymore. So luck, I had the brick and mortar. We have a great little spot that we work out of when we're there together. We're there usually once a week, myself and the designers and my head of operations.
And the shop has just become such a special place for our community. And we host events. We do a lot of charity things there. It's a place where I feel like people come and they're instantly happy when they walk in. It feels good. It smells good. So. So, yeah, I think scaling back, getting rid of the design studio was huge.
And then with the team really focusing on the people that I wanted to surround myself with, if they were already thinking about going off on their own, I highly encourage them and set them off, you know, with good luck to you. And I was happy for them if they wanted to stay on. It was a conversation of, what does that look like?
And then being okay with being very intentional about the projects we were taking on. And that meant that there wasn't going to be as many projects. It might be few and far between.
So are you okay with not having work for a month or two if we're really waiting around for that ideal client?
[00:33:54] Speaker B: The getting rid of the studio that just hits so close to home because we had a big, beautiful studio. And at the time, I was making everybody come in, everybody who was at least local to Austin, making them come in. And sooner or later, it was sorely realized that people preferred to work from home. And it was just me going into this big, huge, beautiful studio. I mean, we had, like, almost 2,000 square feet, and it was me going in every day. And I love working from the office, like, have to, especially now that we have, you know, a baby, almost toddler. But even before that, it's like, I have to be in a workspace. But that was something we had to change last year, too. I was like, why am I doing this for? Is it for vanity's sake? I mean, in all fairness, we did just get a smaller office, but it was like we had built out this beautiful space, and then it just didn't make sense anymore. So I'm right there with you, the owner.
[00:34:48] Speaker A: You talk about this a lot. It's having the ability to pivot, you know, through anything.
And that doesn't look like failure, you know, it just looks like the next chapter for you. And what do you want that to be?
[00:35:01] Speaker B: I always say that people never actually remember your failures. They remember all the things that you're actually doing. And so if you do get caught up in that thought process, it's like nobody's like, oh, yeah, that didn't work out. That tiny thing that felt really big to you. They're like, whoa, they're doing this, this and that. And look at that latest project.
So that's such a helpful reminder, Nicole. Thank you.
[00:35:26] Speaker D: How does your day to day look
[00:35:28] Speaker B: different now with a smaller team?
Are you the person who's talking to clients? Are you the person who's doing site visits? Are your designers in charge of talking to clients? What does that look like?
[00:35:41] Speaker A: I am not.
I really am the face of the company and I've worked really hard to stay that and be that, I think. But then in the next breath, I also feel like I do a really good job of giving my team credit, crediting my lead designers on jobs and things like that. But I really do remain the face of the company and the creative director. So I have handed off a lot of the responsibility to other people on my team. I talked a little bit about my head of operations. Her name is Rochelle. She's actually my sister in law.
One of the most talented, smartest women that I've ever worked with. She really is the one who is client facing. So she does everything from looking at our inquiries, obviously I see them as well, to taking our initial calls, to really vetting the clients and then coming up with the time estimate with the lead designer. So she really handles a lot of the client interfacing.
I come into the clients when we have design presentations. I like to show my face and say hello and thank them for their business and, you know, just kind of be involved in that way. But I really now focus on the big picture things, whether that's working on collaborations or, you know, with brands or companies figuring out kind of our next steps there. That's, that's kind of my job. I am in the shop almost every day. I go and I check in with the girls there.
I do a lot of, like, the market, the purchasing visits.
But I would say my day to day is pretty, pretty balanced. I'm able to have coffee with friends and I feel, I feel like I'VE worked hard now where I've hired the right people and gotten them in the right seats that I can enjoy life and I can make my own schedule.
[00:37:36] Speaker B: We're gonna get next into the influencer, designer kind of stuff, Stratosphere. But I'd love for you to coach us through how you prepare clients for the fact that they see your face all the time on the brand, but then you're not the person that they're talking to the second that they call. Because I know that that is a pain point for a lot of people that they're like, where's Nicole?
How do you facilitate a really trustworthy experience for them when it's not you, that that's, you know, on their onboarding?
[00:38:11] Speaker A: I think it's taken years to get to that point. And honestly, I've. I post a lot about it on Instagram, I talk about it, I do some reels and, you know, quick little tidbits like, I am around, I see everything that goes out, but it's not going to be me necessarily, you know, as the lead on your. On your project. It most likely won't be.
And then I think Rachelle follows that up with lots of conversations with the clients that, you know, if it ever comes up, you know that I. I will not be the point person for them. I will not be the lead. But understand that everything is coming under. Is under the Eye for Pretty umbrella, and it's coming out of our studio. Nicole sees everything that goes out, so that generally puts them at ease. And then when I show up at a site visit or, you know, a design presentation, they usually feel like, okay, you know, I don't believe that my Eye for Pretty is me. I don't feel like I am the only one that could do this. Sure, I have the vision for the company and I started it, but I'm able to give our designers, like, a lot of autonomy and creative freedom that they're going to go and execute the vision or the Eye for Pretty brand. And sometimes it's better than what I could have even imagined.
So I think I've worked hard to build those relationships, and people trust that.
[00:39:35] Speaker B: That is interesting. And, Nicole, this is completely off script, so don't feel like you have to answer it, but it's something I've been talking about with a lot of people. Have you thought about what I for Pretty means? Like, when you're ready to be done, have you thought about it being, like, a sellable business as, like, when you're ready to retire, then it just kind of closes up shop. Have you thought about that at all?
[00:39:57] Speaker A: Have. And I don't know if Anastasia, just, just because I'm getting older and I'm not old by any means, but my kids are going to be out of high school and they're going to be off. And my husband and I talk about what does retirement look like for us? And I have talked to my mentor a lot about this, about if it is a sellable business and it is.
What would that look like? Though? I think I have to still do a lot of soul searching into what that would look like. Do I have dreams that my son would become an architect and my daughter would take over? Of course. You know, is that going to happen? Most likely not.
I think I will always be a designer in some sense. I will always be doing projects or building these spec homes or custom homes with my builder. I, I see myself doing that for a long time.
Where I get really sad about is thinking about giving up the brick and mortar and that space just because it is such a special place for our town and community.
And that's really what I'm thinking about right now. What does that look like? If I were to sell the shop, the brick and mortar, would somebody else come and take over? And would they do it?
How would they do that?
[00:41:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay, let's talk about influencer designer and kind of go back to like where your celebrity really, like took off and how that led to, you know, your design studio taking off.
I feel like the concept of influencer designer can have a little bit of baggage or kind of a stigma in our industry.
What does it really mean to you?
[00:41:40] Speaker A: I would agree with that. And I would say that I think there's many types of influencers. I think we all have influence whether we like it or not. Anytime we're putting something up on social media, you know, I think there's, there's the mom designer influencer that does their own home and then they post a ton of affiliate links to shop that home. And honestly, there have been so many times where I've thought, wow, if I just went into, if I leaned into that, I would be, I would have so much more money than what I do now because those girls are so profitable and that's so. It is a lot of hard work to do what they do. I'm not that. I think when it comes to a designer influencer, I feel like it's.
I have a responsibility almost to help people love their home and where they live.
So I, I said this on the other day on Instagram. I don't gatekeep a lot of things because in my mind, who, if I'm to give somebody the white paint color we used on a wall, or I'm somebody going to give somebody a countertop material that I use and they go out and they put that in their own home.
Like, who am I to take away that happiness from them? I find joy in other people loving their homes and the spaces that they're in. So that's, I think, where I feel my responsibility is.
I started off showing up every day, the good, the bad, you know, the funny of things that happened to me. And so I still feel a responsibility to still be that person. And I think I've come to be.
People know what they're getting when they come to my. To my page. Right. And they're looking forward to that and they're trusting that, oh, I'm gonna go find good content on Nicole's page, I could trust her. And I think that's what we look for when we follow people on social media.
[00:43:32] Speaker B: I know we talked about it at the top of the show, but just like how big of a deal your following really became as far as a sales funnel for your business today. Do you still feel like clients are coming to you from there or have those audiences kind of separated?
[00:43:52] Speaker A: I do think it's. They've separated. And sure, I still. We still get some great referrals from Instagram and social media, but most of our referrals now are from our website or Pinterest or I guess that's kind of a social media or referrals, really. We're really referral based.
And since we only take on a limited amount of projects, you know, I think those people coming from Instagram are few and far between.
And honestly, even though I try to educate people on Instagram on what things are costing or what your budget should be, most of the people that come really still have no idea. So then it's Rochelle trying to educate them on what it really costs.
[00:44:34] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
So on the influencing side of things is that is this actually part of your revenue stream? Are there ways that you are monetizing it or is it kind of what sounds like a passion project for you? You feel like you have this responsibility to still be sharing and, you know, you do have this large audience, so you're trying to upkeep that or is there some sort of return on that time spent?
[00:45:00] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't know if you would be surprised by this. I think most people are surprised by this, but I do not earn much money at all from Instagram. I have not monetized it. The only money that I earn from Instagram is when I do paid posts and collaborations. And I'm very intentional about those. Those are generally with companies and vendors and products that I have used on our projects or used in my own home. And again, I think it goes back to people being able to kind of see through those things and know when I'm not being genuine. So I kind of, maybe it's my moral compass, but I'm very selective about the paid collaborations that I do. So I do not earn a lot of revenue from social media at all.
[00:45:46] Speaker B: Okay, so at this point, you're not necessarily getting the clients that you're only taking on a few a year from Instagram. You're not necessarily using it as a revenue stream. How much time, energy and resources are you putting into it? And based on that answer, why?
[00:46:08] Speaker A: That's a very good question. I'm currently not putting a lot into it. I, I've kind of watched the analytics sometimes and I feel like I'm at the point where there's. There's no plan to grow the account. Like, that's never in my mind. Like I'm trying to get followers anymore.
My plan is to always show up authentically when I do go on, make sure that the content that I'm showing is relatable to people or that they find interesting.
Show a little bit about myself and my life. Because kind of going back to the face of the company, I do feel like that's what draws people to our services, is they're like, oh, I like her as a person. You know, I think you talk about that too, is like, we are our main selling feature and selling point. So if somebody enjoys you as a person, they're most likely going to reach out just to want to work with you.
So really I think my, my responsibility and my interest in Instagram specifically right now is just to show up when I can and as myself. And it still brings me joy when people will comment or I run into people and they're like, oh my gosh, I followed you on Instagram. It's like the cutest thing ever to me still. So, yeah, there's really not that much strategy behind it anymore.
I do think a lot of like my current collaborations and brands, they're still looking at those numbers, but they're more.
I think I've come to be known and trusted as just kind of like a go to source, you know, Definitely.
[00:47:46] Speaker B: Do you think that the ship has kind of sailed for someone to really build their design firm off of Instagram? And if so, do you think that people should be putting as much pressure on themselves as they do to, like, grow their following in order for their firm to be legitimate?
[00:48:09] Speaker A: I don't think to be legitimate at all. I think that I. I think going back to the foundational parts and, you know, I kick myself every day for not working with IDKO 10 years ago. You know, I think if I could go back and tell people, it's, you know, make sure you have a clear brand voice, have a great website, get some amazing photographs of whatever little vignette that you could get, and post that if you don't like showing your face or you're nervous on camera, there's other ways to still show up on social media. So I think you do need to have a landing page on social media for people to find you, along with, like, a wonderful, amazing website?
[00:48:50] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. You just mentioned some of your collaborations and partnerships. I really would love to dig into this next, you know, revenue model and kind of how you're able to still scale without necessarily trading time as much. So let's talk about your collaboration with Westside builds and your custom home projects. How is partnering with a builder shifted the business model?
[00:49:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's shifted it a lot. And I think it's always been a dream of mine and something that I've wanted to do. So when Joe kind of came into the picture and he wanted to do the same thing, I think it was just like a natural, amazing fit and collaboration for us.
I really feel blessed that I get to be my own dream client with each one of these builds. And there's so much creative freedom with these builds, and, you know, they're never stale or stagnant. And I get to, yeah, just have that creative freedom is so, so amazing. I think from a revenue standpoint, it's really changed the game for me.
The first build that I did with him, I built him hourly, and I found that was a big mistake for me.
So I've learned we're on our fourth build now, and I've learned kind of different ways to be more profitable with the builds.
The second build I did, and maybe you'll find this interesting, and the third actually is I took a big risk and I told him, this is the number I want, all in flat rate, you do not need to pay me until the house sells.
So we both, you know, he was taking the risk of all the Carrying costs and everything, because he's the one who purchases the lots. But I was also taking a big risk, you know, like, I'm gonna sell this house for you. I'm gonna put my name on it, I'm gonna market it.
You do not need to pay me anything through the build. Because I think with the first build, it was stressing him out to get these monthly design bills and hours. Right. Because he wasn't making any that point.
So I think this model worked well for both of us to say, hey, I'm putting all on the line with you. I'm betting on us. We're going to sell this house.
And both of them sold pre construction. So that was really amazing.
[00:51:13] Speaker B: Wow. Okay. Can we talk a little bit more about working with a builder? Because, you know, at design camp, we get asked this. So, so, so much so. We've really been trying to add programming with builders. How did you. Was this just a. Was this a builder that you had worked with on past projects? And so it kind of like happened organically. How did you get your foot in the door with Joe? Was that you said?
[00:51:33] Speaker A: Yeah, Joe, yes. We had worked on a few projects together before. We knew that we worked really well together. It's pretty seamless.
He has a great crew of guys that I love. And, yeah, he just called me up one day, is like, hey, I bought. I bought a property. Let's do this. So we had talked about it and both said, like, you know, that would be something we'd be interested in.
So, yeah, it happened pretty organically. I would say my advice would be definitely find a contractor or a builder that you work really well with and then kind of bring up this idea of finding either a property to flip or remodel or doing a custom build together, because I think it could be very, very profitable for both of you.
[00:52:19] Speaker B: Did you have to put money into the build or was it your time was your contribution?
[00:52:28] Speaker A: I did not put money into the build. It's something that my husband and I still definitely talk about doing when he, you know, when we find another lot. So it's not like I'm never going to, but right now, no. Joe has been purchasing all of the lots, and then I. It's all of my time and. Yeah, and time. You know, it's hard to put a number on my time because with these builds, I really am the chief marketing director. Right. I'm putting these builds on Instagram and marketing them to the people that are going to come and tour them. So it's kind of It's. It's hard to put a number on that. And I think over the years that we've been doing these builds, I've gotten pretty clear on the value that I bring to the table. Joe sees that it helped that we broke records with the last house that we built and sold. So I think I have some cred now, you know, to ask for a little bit more from him.
[00:53:26] Speaker B: Well, that is such an interesting concept, particularly listening to Nicole's strategy on that second and third build that she takes essentially commission at the end.
[00:53:38] Speaker D: Excuse me.
[00:53:39] Speaker B: For people who are looking to maybe enter this, that could be a bargaining negotiation tactic to get in with a builder. So food for thought. That is super, super helpful.
Okay, so when you think about 20, 26 and this next custom build coming to the market because you're working on number four, what feels most aligned and, like, exciting about this next chapter?
[00:54:07] Speaker A: You know, I.
I think that with each house that we do, I think they just keep getting. I hate to say this, but better and better, more creative, taking a little bit more risks. You know, it's tricky because I do have to.
I can't do anything crazy. I have to appeal to most buyers. Right. So I can't really niche down, but I feel like bringing in the eye for pretty aesthetic in different ways, I think gets people excited. So this next one is going to be like a Belgian cottage kind of European vibe, which I'm excited about.
And, yeah, just getting something to do something different creatively. I really love that I get to market the homes.
I have furnished the home. So that's kind of been another revenue stream is I stage the home. We do a great brokers tour, and a tour open to the public, where they could come and purchase all of the furniture, which kind of serves in your twofold. Right. So we make money from the furniture, but then we also could resell that product over and over again. So that's been a really great stream of revenue as well for me.
[00:55:17] Speaker B: Interesting. So are the buyers typically buying it fully furnished?
[00:55:23] Speaker A: No. It's been the elusive thing for me. I've tried every time I stay number
[00:55:29] Speaker B: four, we're getting it number four.
[00:55:31] Speaker A: I just, you know, everyone's like, oh, my gosh, how could someone walk into this house and not just say, I'll take it all?
But I haven't had that yet, so I'm really hoping one of these days it lands.
[00:55:43] Speaker B: Nicole, if you could give one piece of advice to the designer who.
So, naturally, it's a very natural feeling. Equates growth with success, what would it be?
[00:55:58] Speaker A: I think we touched on this a little bit before, but I do think it's so amazing and wonderful to dream big. I never wanted to discourage you from that. I want. I, you know, I, I dreamt big and I went for things and I loved it. Was it hard? Sure. But whenever you're saying yes to something specifically growing, you're saying no to other things in your life. So just be very clear about what those where your priorities lie and then be okay to pivot and to change directions.
I think naturally, as moms and women, we kind of of see the arc in our life and there's times where we're head down in it and we're so focused on being successful, which is amazing. And then there are times when you see life passing you by and your kids are growing like weeds and they're going off to college and then you realize, what, what am I doing this for? What is my ultimate end goal? And for me, that goal is to live a happy, authentic life. And that's making people happy in their homes and that's making my own family happy in, in our home.
[00:57:10] Speaker B: I love that. Nicole, this was such a good chat. It was so great to just see how far you've come and I just really appreciate how honest you are about.
Bigger isn't necessarily always better and it's always easier to say that on the other side of that big success.
But I really appreciate you spelling it out so clearly for us.
[00:57:32] Speaker A: Thank you for having me. I'm truly honored.
[00:57:36] Speaker D: For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more. Don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show Notes notes
[email protected] the Interior Collective thank you so so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. A big huge thank you to our production team at IDCO Studio and Quinn made. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible. Until next time. I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living.
[00:58:35] Speaker C: A very special thanks to our presenting sponsor, Laloy, the makers of beautifully crafted rugs, pillows and wall art. And to our episode sponsor and seasoned partner Design assist the staff crafting solution built specifically to support and scale interior design firms.
