[00:00:06] Speaker A: Hi. Welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey, and I am once again joined by Amber Lewis, founder of Amber Interiors, a studio that has grown from a small residential practice into a brand with hundreds of employees and a footprint that spans design, retail, and media. What's notable about Amber's path isn't just the scale. It is her signature design work that has remained central to the business even as the company around it has expanded well beyond.
In today's conversation, we are getting into the mechanics of staying close to the creative product at that size, how she protects her point of view on projects, what design still contributes to the business financially, and whether taking on more design work remains a priority as the business diversifies. We'll also talk about her own home renovation, working with brand partners inside her own space, her newly launched third book titled Interiors, and what her team structure looks like day to day to make room for it all. This is a conversation about staying hands on without doing it all yourself.
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[email protected] this episode is brought to you by Leloy. A new season has arrived with new collections from Amber Lewis, Jeremiah Brent, Chris Loves Julia, and Magnolia. Home by Joanna Gaines. Celebrating 10 years of partnership with Laloy. Explore all of the latest
[email protected] hello, Amber. Welcome back to the show.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: Again, thank you so much for making the time. We're recording this. Well, you guys will hear this in October too, but we're recording this in October and anybody in the industry who isn't even launching a book would know that October is pretty crazy.
[00:01:57] Speaker B: It is.
[00:01:58] Speaker A: So thank you for squeezing us in.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: It's like my Super Bowl. I think we basically trained the entire year to just be able to make it through the month of October.
[00:02:07] Speaker A: Well, yeah, when. When you're dropping, you know, a book every two years, I guess you'd have
[00:02:11] Speaker B: to totally every three, but whatever. Yeah. Three, two, who's counting? I am.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: Well, it seems like you're constantly working on one.
[00:02:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: Okay, so I want to dive right in. We have a ton to get through today, and I have to be very respectful of your very finite time. So in our past chitchats, you shared that your interior design team, we're talking just the design studio sits somewhere around 15, I think you're at 16 people at any given time. As the broader company has grown into the hundreds, how has that specific team size shifted? Like, how do you keep the design studio so tight?
[00:02:49] Speaker B: Well, it's separate businesses. And the best way to describe it is that I literally operate with an enterprise of all the companies. So under the umbrella, let's just call it Amber Lewis Enterprise. It's the products, the licensing, the authors, like, all the stuff that I sort of attach my name to, and that is a hundred percent my own. I have a pretty small team there. It's pretty much finite. There's some shared services. So finance. Andy, who you've met, who's on like the PR and partnerships, and then obviously my product design team, which is just myself and one person, and then Ted, who's been with me for years, and then the design firm is a whole other separate part of the business. So that is just. I keep that small intentionally so because all of our clients are very curated. We're very intentional about projects that we like to take on. And so I tend to be able to keep that a little bit smaller and tighter. And then there's the retail and E. Com part of the business, which is a much larger operation because we have obviously the five locations as well as the E. Comm platform. So that is a little bit more of a robust team.
And so they're all separate businesses. So it's easy for me to kind of mind and take care of them all separately with the enterprise sort of above it all. Like the. The parent company being the Amber Lewis name.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: That's super interesting, actually, Amber, because I didn't expect everything to actually be so distinguished from each other. Like, I knew Andy pops around and I'm sure, like, there's other people, but even on the finance side, like, you have different finance teams and then like one overseeing finance person.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: No. So we have one finance team as a whole, and they share. We share those services across companies. So when I say shared services, the shared kind of part of our business that goes throughout onto the design firm, onto the retail side, and onto the licensing and partnership side, is one finance team and with, like, specialists in each part. So I will have a design and procurement specialist that basically deals with all of the design firm financing. And then we also have someone who's over the shop and someone who's over the licensing.
So we have finance that, like specializes in each department, if that makes sense.
[00:05:18] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it totally does. Okay, so I want us to start talking design firm stuff specifically today, because for most of Us listening, that's the most, I guess, like, relative to us. We aren't all running an enterprise. Walk me through what creative control actually looks like for you on a design project today. Are you still reviewing renderings? Are you sourcing? Are you making sourcing decisions? Are you at install day? Are you really that umbrella that just kind of sees the last things as before it goes out the door? Where do you see today?
[00:05:52] Speaker B: Yes, all of those things. Yes. So I love the design part of my business and I feel like I protect it probably more than anything because I still have such a touch point into what I want these projects to feel like. So ultimately the majority of the things that we even see in these books have been curated and sourced five years before you're seeing them because these are projects that take however many years and, you know, we picked that tile however many years ago. So I like to make sure that I feel really invested in all of these design projects that we're taking. And the only way for me to do that is to be involved in all parts. So I don't project manage. I basically am at the beginning, the middle and the end is the best way to describe my involvement. I'm very much in the very beginning, so it depends on the project. But the majority of the time I'll know early on if a client is requesting more me time, if that makes sense or like they're happy to kind of know that this is a pretty big operation and you're going to get passed to myself or to design director on my team or any of the leads, they're going to kind of project manage the project all the way to the end.
Some clients definitely want a lot more FaceTime from me. And if that's the case, then I'm just very clear about my time. And I'm really trying to make sure that I bring in my design director and partner with me along that process. So they feel like if I'm out in the month of October, where I'm literally working three, you know, three days from the office, I know that they feel like their project is being handled really well. So I tend to be very much on the creative side at the very front loaded end. I meet with my team weekly and we talk about the projects that they're working on. And then in the middle I tend to do like a site visit if it's out of state, but if it's local, I'm trying to do those site visits often. And then at the very end I. I still do go to the installs so it's kind of nuts because I'm very much involved. And we have warehouse setup. So we put every single piece that we're putting into the house gets staged at our warehouse first. So I do those walkthroughs, then we pick all the accessories, we pick all the pillows, we pick all the, like, make sure everything's ready, and then we wrap it back up, put it on a truck, install it, and then I'm at the install as well. But I have an amazing team that get it ready for me to get there so that I'm really just editing and making calls once I'm there. But we try to front load most of that at the warehouse before an install.
[00:08:19] Speaker A: That is so wild to me also. I'm so glad Amber, you mentioned that, because someone asked me, it must have been a design camp. Someone was like, doesn't Amber stage all of her houses before moving it in? I was like, absolutely not. She doesn't do that.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: No, we absolutely do.
We absolutely do. And let me tell you why I do that. Because the majority of our rugs or things that we're putting, bringing in are going to be vintage and we're going to source them up until. So we'll have things that we call, you know, open to buy that will be vintage pieces that we know. Like we can't find this coffee table for this FF&E presentation nine months before we're going to install it. But we left it as an open to buy. So a lot of times we'll buy things and then I'll restage it back in the warehouse and make sure that it feels right with everything else that we've already sourced and then either send it to the client or just install it in the house. But it has to get my approval first. And the only way to do that is to put it in the warehouse. And rugs. Rugs are a big one too. We used to bring like a thousand rugs to projects, and now I just bring them to the warehouse, choose my favorite, and then, then they go back. Whatever doesn't work.
[00:09:22] Speaker A: Okay. This is amazing. And honestly, it feels like a dream for so many people. Okay. Logistically, obviously, you guys have huge warehouse spaces. You handle. Do you guys handle all your own receiving? Because at E. Comm. Is everything comes to you anyway, and you store it. Okay. So it's all centrally located anyway.
[00:09:38] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:09:39] Speaker A: Are you. How much. How much space does it do you use like one room at a time and then you guys like reset or like you're doing a whole house. How Big is this to.
[00:09:48] Speaker B: I'm spoiled. I'm pretty spoiled because I have a massive warehouse. I think the warehouse is like 55,000 square feet. So it's, it's big. I'll have to send you photos. It's pretty wild. But we basically set up a whole, like right side of the warehouse just becomes room after room after room and we just put the big pieces down and then we walk the space. We don't set it up like the actual house, we just walk the furniture and we walk like. Yeah, we walk the rooms.
But yeah, it's. It's only been in the last, I think like right after Covid, when we got a bigger space that I was able to do it. But it's been a game changer because we bring so much stuff. We bring so many accessories and pillows and bedding and yada, yada, yada. And all these houses are massive. So being able to set it up in the warehouse is kind of a game changer because we're not doing it at the project, we're doing it before. And I can really edit it and make sure that everything that we're bringing, bringing to the project is super curated and exactly what I would want. And before we used to just like bring it all and just whatever didn't work would go home.
[00:10:55] Speaker A: And I imagine, obviously you're still like looking at every room you're on site during install, but it does mean that you can delegate a room to a team member and be like, you know, you know what this is supposed to end up looking like. And I'll come in for final tweaks, particularly when it comes to like photo and video, of course.
[00:11:10] Speaker B: Correct, correct.
[00:11:12] Speaker A: I'm on a huge tangent now because we should have just talked about this the whole time. However, just curious, can you walk us through, in an ideal world, typically what your guys's install and photo shoot schedule look like, Obviously Shade's doing the photos. How quick, how right next to install is that? Or do you guys separate it out same time?
[00:11:31] Speaker B: So I know from years of experience that this project or the client will not. They'll do their best to try to make it look the way that we installed it, but it's going to be hard to keep it up. And a lot of times clients come in and they're like, this is great. Can you add a little bit more like personal family photos and all these other things, which, if I'm writing a book, I'm not going to put their personal family photos in the book. So I could, but a Lot of times I'm like, no, we're good. We're just going to keep those two things separate. But I typically like to do the install and the photo shoot at the same time. Like I said, my team is so good about making sure that what we're installing really only takes however many days it's going to take. It depends on the size of the house. Two to five days, let's just say. And then when I come in, I'm coming in on, like, day three or four, and we're starting to shoot the rooms that are completely done. And I'm with a styling team that's walking around and doing flowers that we're doing. Like, if we need extra pillows, if I want to add extra things, they're working to make that happen. But I like to do the install and the photo shoot at the exact same time because I know that it's only going to look this beautiful probably this one time for sure. You know, actually, I've gone back to two clients houses. This is a fun fact. Two of my clients recently invited me back to have dinner, and I was so impressed. Their house was identical. I was like, how. What is happening? You guys have four children. What is going on? And they've kept their house in pristine condition, which I. They get client of the year award for sure.
[00:12:58] Speaker A: Client of the year. But it also says that you guys really did your job because it's obviously working well for them.
[00:13:02] Speaker B: That's right. It didn't even look like anyone had sat in the sofas. And I know that they do because I have gotten photos where there are, like, 300 people on this giant sofa. I know that they are having parties. It just looked really good.
[00:13:14] Speaker A: It's like, great.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: That's wonderful news. Yeah.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: Well, it looks like you worked yourself out of a job there. Unless they have to move. Okay, so with the design team sitting around 16, how many projects do you feel like is a good number for you guys to be carrying at one time? Obviously, there's a huge range of, like, what phase that is. But, like, what.
How do you. It feels like you guys are doing a lot of projects.
[00:13:37] Speaker B: So here's what's crazy is I used to be in the, like, 12 to 15 range, and I have had such a shift in the past year to where I don't think more is better. And I also think that more causes you to be a little less creatively challenged because you're kind of in the rut of just doing what you know instead of creating something new.
And I. And I think that like your client pipeline, they start to hire you for what they've seen. Instead of really loving the creative process and really knowing that they're hiring me to think and think on my feet and think for, you know, give them something new and different that feels fresh. So I am sort of in a stage where I kind of like 8 to 12 projects max, I think smaller amounts, but are really curated and bigger, beautiful. Like multi year projects are really cool. Like, they're great. I, I don't mind some of the smaller FF and es when they come through. We take those often where we know that it's just going to be kind of like a wham, bam, thank you ma'.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: Am.
[00:14:47] Speaker B: We in, we furnish their house, we get out. It's not these like multi years, but on those longer projects, that's where like I really think an 8 to 10 sweet spot and then up to 12 with some of these smaller FF&E is kind of where I think our team thrives. I think when we have too many things going on, we tend to just go to our safe zone of what we've already done and we're not really thinking. It becomes too chaotic. So we're just like, let's just do what we've already done because it's easy and we have to get this out quicker. And I don't think that that breeds the most amazing or creative studio, if I'm honest.
[00:15:23] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. Um, and obviously that's, you know, something that's learned in high hindsight after you had all those busy years.
[00:15:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:32] Speaker A: But it is really nice to hear from someone who has had all those busy years of like, hey, maybe you don't need to be pushing for that many.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:39] Speaker A: Amber, can you walk us through what the review process looks like internally from your team before it gets to you? I think a lot of people are in the phase, you know, we're a few years past the COVID like craziness and they've brought on a team.
How, how much is done before you're presented with some options or not done.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: I like to know that I've trusted, I've hired and I trust my team fully. So I like for them to feel a lot more committed before they actually present it to me. So they are doing things like reviewing floor plan. We will have a full meeting. So we will talk about it. Let's just say a new project is starting. We're going to sit down, we're going to talk about the project as a whole. We're talking about the clients, we're talking about the timeline, we're talking about the architect, the construct. We're having a full deer debrief and then we start to think creatively. So we start a Pinterest board internally. We start to kind of think what this house is going to look like, what are the architectural details going to look like. And then if we're remodeling or building from scratch, I will set the team free of like, okay, the client express to me that they want this and this and this and this. So then they will go and they will start sketching and they will start bringing me ideas past our initial kind of meetings. Then we sit down and then we troubleshoot it again. So I would say the review process is the team is really so involved, they really like to own what they're working on and I want them to own what they're working on. I never want to feel like, oh, it's of. They all know that it dies with me. Right. If an idea isn't working, then it's going to come to me and I'm going to shoot it down. If something is great, then that's on them to be able to present that to me. And I'm really happy to kind of always look at every angle of a project and really look at why they thought that, why they thought that this would be better, why they're choosing these materials. And it's just, I guess there's no like timeline. But I think that they're really actively working from a very clear, front loaded version of what I want this house to look like. So they're kind of walking backwards from that, which I encourage them to do. Like, I never want anyone on my team to feel like they don't have the creative freedom to do cool stuff for sure.
[00:17:51] Speaker A: I know you said that there's no like specific timeline, but is there like a unspoken rule of how far ahead of a client presentation that you're like, I need to be able to see this X amount of time before we're actually showing it to a client.
[00:18:05] Speaker B: Yeah. So right now, I mean every project is different because every timeline is different and every objective is different. So right now I'm looking at things that we're presenting. So it's like whatever the date is the middle of October. I know that we have a presentation for an FF&E project, furnishings at the end of October. I've seen the initial pass, I've given my initial edits. They're coming to me with a second pass like tomorrow. So middle of October. I will have the next week to give them to edit again if we have another pass and then it'll go to clients at the end of the month. So that's a pretty tight turnaround. I like to have at least a month in between when I'm seeing something to when we're presenting to a client if I can get it.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And I was like, oh, that's a tight turnaround. Plus it's high point week, so that's a week to turn things around while you're literally gone.
[00:19:00] Speaker B: I don't sleep, guys. I mean, what can I say? They don't sleep.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: Is there anything in the process on the design side of things that you are no longer touching that like, absolutely. You used to insist on doing and now you're like, I had to. I had to hand that off.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: The project management as a whole, like, nobody wants me to be involved unless it's client facing or unless it's something that invol needs my involvement. I do not project manage. I do not get involved. I'm cc'd on every email, but I just let my team do that. I also don't know how to do cad, so I've never done that and have a whole team dedicated to that.
I'm pretty much like, I'm pretty siloed in my company, if I'm honest. I really pretty much just focus on editing at this point and sourcing and like making sure things look great. That's kind of. And setting the vision and the creative. That's kind of all I do anymore.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: If you've been running your firm for a few years now, you've probably got a system in place. And I do use that term loosely. It's going to be a mix of apps, some spreadsheets, maybe a project management tool that was close but never quite right. And you are still the one holding it all together.
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[email protected] can you explain a little bit what client facing is defined as to you? Because for some listening that might mean that any client communication email is coming from Amber. I don't imagine that's literally what you mean. So what, what is that? Kind of like threshold presentations.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: So I am very, I like to be involved in client presentations. So anytime we're doing architectural materials, any kind of big floor plan, any kind of big design architectural detail meetings, I like to be involved as just making sure that they understand that I back what we're presenting that I have worked with the team to show them what we are showing them.
Most site visits, if it's out of state, I would say like I said, I really only do like 1, 2, 3 of those max. The majority of the time I am sending this team and that's beneficial on both ends. That's beneficial for the client because I'm going to bill at a higher rate and you don't necessarily need me to just be there unless you want me to be there. And then the other things that I do client facing is big time discussions on budget or anything that has to do with you know, like the team. So if I'm sort of representing the interior design team to the client with the architects with the build, that's typically when I will be like representing the company myself if I need to be.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: So you just touched on that you're billed higher. So that answers a question I inevitably would have gotten to. You guys are still at a tiered pricing model. Everything is still hourly. And you guys do. Are you guys working off of retainers and billing against that or are you guys just logging invoicing that at the end of the month, quarter, whatever it
[00:22:52] Speaker B: is, we're just invoicing that, you know. And it's funny because I love to admit that I'm still learning every single day and otherwise what's the point? I don't have it all figured out. This is just sort of what I almost always when I decide on what I'm doing, it's because it's a pivot from what I've done that doesn't work. And right now, like I've just told you, like eight to 10 projects is a lot easier than 12 to 15. It's a lot more manageable. Like there's another kind of billing question that's been hitting us lately is because clients are getting. It's not the COVID days.
Everyone is minding their P's and Q's
[00:23:31] Speaker A: a little bit more.
[00:23:32] Speaker B: And so when you're sending these ridiculous bills that are hours jumped up, you know so much because you've got three or four or five people working on it, it. It's not a great look. And I, I gotta be honest, it's not my favorite. And we're. Yes, my team is still working on it, but how we're billing for it is something that we're trying to be a little bit more client fair. Even though it's not firm fare, it's client fair. And I will never forget, every morning I remind myself, this is a service industry. I'm doing a service for somebody. So I'm here to serve the client, not the other way around. And so when we have billing that is so massive or billing that feels crazy, I'm starting to. We have been actively looking at those bills and figuring out a way that's more client friendly, less firm friendly, which is kind of counterintuitive, but I think it makes the process a lot avoid tough conversations. So, yeah, we're still billing hourly, but every day I'm like, is there a better way?
[00:24:33] Speaker A: Is there a better way? It is, as you know, Amber, it's a conversation we have all the time on the show and for everyone listening. I wish that you weren't experiencing the Amber, but it is a little bit comforting to know that even at Amber Lewis it people are watching their budgets a little more. They're watching the dollars that are going in and out. And yes, as a service based industry, it doesn't feel good to get huge bills every single month. Especially when the fun part's over and you're in the thick of it. And that's when it really lessens that client experience. So I'll circle back around when you guys have updated it and we can talk about what's working.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: What's your deal? Do you think that it's flat fees? Do you just like to do a flat fee?
[00:25:13] Speaker A: We have been really working. It's something we're launching next year. We're actually helping people come up with a flat fee calculator. That's of course everything has to be based on hours. 100%. But there's a few reasons. A, it doesn't feel good from a client perspective. They want to know what they're getting into. You get a. You, you're more likely to get A yes. If you can give someone a flat number, obviously construction management, that is out of your hands, that still is going to need to be hourly. But those numbers are usually also smaller than the design hours. Yeah, but we also have just found that you also price yourself out when you are saying we're $250 an hour. Okay, but I've been doing this for 12 years. Like I am worth. I can work a lot faster than I used to be able to. And so by putting into a flat fee, you can, I don't want to say fudge the numbers, but you can cushion the numbers appropriately for your proprietary knowledge that you've gained over the years for your more efficient systems and processes, and also so a client stomach that number, plan for that number and prepare for that number. So definitely I've been hearing a lot of people lean that way, but I've also heard from the best of the best that we're like an attorney and if we're working, we're charging for those hours and that's what it is. But I definitely understand from the client experience standpoint and when people are just having to be a little more conscientious of their spend, knowing how much they're going to spend is helpful.
[00:26:38] Speaker B: Yeah, totally.
Good food for thought.
[00:26:42] Speaker A: So I want to talk about design as a business revenue line as well, because y' all have a lot going on. And so I'm wondering if you can put into general percentages what percentage of Amber Interior's overall revenue is coming from design services today versus the retail media licenses?
Because, you know, people are doing the math real quick and they're like, okay, eight to 12 projects.
They're like, how are we? How do I make that happen? So, like, how much of it is really still design?
[00:27:13] Speaker B: I've sat down with the leadership team a hundred times and just really made a conscious decision that if we were going to get to X on the revenue a hundred X harder. And so it's been fairly consistent for the last, say, like five to 10 years of where we sort of cap out on what that revenue was going to be without completely burning everybody out. So the design firm is at a sweet spot. It's the least revenue across all the companies.
And the reason for that is intentional. I've pushed on the gas pedal as hard as I could and it's not worth it. Like, for that extra.
Whatever that number is, it's not worth it. And where I feel like my effort and my energy is best spent is towards the things that you can really move the needle, which is towards the retail and towards the licensing. That's where I feel a lot more ownership and how I can actively see a meaningful number jump than I will ever in the design firm, if that makes sense. Like. So the revenue on the licensing, it's almost tied between the licensing and the shop. Honestly, now, because.
[00:28:30] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:28:32] Speaker B: Shop is still bigger. But, yeah, the licensing is really ramping up there.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: Yep. Those new collections, every time you add one, there's more stuff to shop.
[00:28:41] Speaker B: It's books, it's collections, it's. I've got all kinds of things going on. So, yeah.
[00:28:47] Speaker A: Wait, are you telling me that you are the only person in the history of the universe that has made money from their books?
[00:28:52] Speaker B: I might be. I actually might be the only person on the face of the earth that has made money from books.
[00:28:59] Speaker A: Well, that is hopeful.
[00:29:01] Speaker B: Not a lot. No one's retiring, but I will say no. I've made. I have a great publisher. They're fantastic. They really believe in these books. I announced this the other day. We've printed over a million books, which is a lot of books.
That is a lot of design books. I mean, my. I know. And I'm like, well, I have. I have a lot of followers. Doesn't that make sense? They're like, no, that does not equate book sales at all. At all.
So they're very much like a humbling kind of situation because they will tell you, your publisher will tell you, no, you. You're lucky if you sell 250,000. I was like, really? That seems like a lot less than I should, but I guess books are just not. They don't move as much as you think that they are. So they're proud and I'm proud. I didn't know what the milestone was going to be or something that I needed to work towards, but when they said that that was impressive, I was like, okay, take your word for it.
[00:29:52] Speaker A: Well, we are all proud. That is incredible. Congratulations.
[00:29:56] Speaker B: Thanks.
[00:29:58] Speaker A: Okay, so I want to talk about how the design studio still fits into the big picture, because we're saying it's like the smallest revenue stream. Yeah, obviously, it's a content generator. I mean, not just for social.
I guess, technically the shop, if you guys are still putting product in projects, and then obviously it's what your books are made of. But how do you and your team sit there and justify and say, yes, it makes sense for this to take up 60% of my time, even though it's. That's 10% of our revenue?
[00:30:28] Speaker B: Well, it's because it's not all about revenue at. At the end of the day. I mean, I got started. It's like my. Why is the design. I got started in this whole world because I really actually like to be an interior designer. I still love the craft of interior design, and I still feel passionate about it. There's some months that I'm ready to hang in the towel, let me tell you. I typically fall back on. Like, I still love being a designer.
I don't want to do things I don't love. If you start to do things you don't love, you become pretty bored and you become pretty over it as a whole. And so I believe in the. Create the, like, the creative process of being an interior designer. And that's why I will never give it up. Plus, it's all part of it, right? The. The projects come first, and then everything follows after. You know, the projects are where the real creation is being harvested. That's where we're really doing amazing things for projects. And then typically shop and the collab stuff kind of follow the projects.
So that's where I put the majority of my creative energy. And then we kind of sell the products after.
After the client process.
[00:31:45] Speaker A: Okay. If we're allowed to. I'd love to talk about your own house renovation you're working on. Are we allowed to chat about it?
[00:31:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:31:52] Speaker A: Okay. So what made. I know that you've bounced around recently and things have shaken up and shifted. What made this the right time to do your own house?
[00:32:04] Speaker B: It's so wild to think that I took on a project like this, given that is like, the last thing I need to be doing right now with my time. But I really believed in this house. I believed in this project. I believed in my, you know, visions for this project. And so I just decided. I've been on a kind of a crazy journey over the past six years of doing things, making sure that I still believed in myself enough to do with something. You get so kind of convinced that you're just a cog in the machine and you're just doing whatever. And I really wanted to challenge myself. Like, do I still want to take on this big, huge build and do something? And who is that going to make happy? Is it going to really make me happy? Or am I doing it for other people?
And I truly had to come to Jesus with myself, like, yeah, no, Amber, you want this? Like, let's do this for you. It's not about for anybody else. This is still your dream.
It's your pie in the Sky.
I bought it all by myself. I'm a, you know, like a big girl. I bought this project. I'm funding this project. I don't have loans. Like, it's really crazy. And I don't know, it's. It was a challenge that I. You don't get a lot of challenging things in your life. I get a lot of challenging things, but, like, to challenge your personal kind of goals and what's your next move? And so this one was that I just was challenging myself and I took the leap and now I'm just tripping every day. Like, what did I decide to do?
[00:33:35] Speaker A: Can you tell us about the order of operations of. I hear that you, like, loved this property. You believed in this property. How does one accidentally stumble across this property? Like, what. What was the story behind it to make you, like, have your Come to Jesus?
[00:33:51] Speaker B: I am a real estalker, but, like, that is my favorite pastime. I spend a solid 30 minutes in the morning. Like, when I first wake up stalking. That's my favorite thing to do. And so this property specifically, I had actually, when I was looking for a rental.
This was years ago, five years ago, before I bought the house. I'm currently, I have two homes. I'm in the house I'm in right now, which I'm living in. And then I have the. That's under construction, which is what we're talking about right now. So before I bought the house that I'm living in currently, I had visited the construction house when it was a rental. So I visited and I was like, man, this is a pretty cool property, but they're wanting, A, too much for rent, and B, it needs a lot of work.
But I had like. I'm like, man, this is a great property. Though it wasn't for sale. It was just for rent. Or actually, no, I tell a lie. It had been for sale, and they wanted an astronomical amount of money for it. And then they put it for rent because nobody bought it. So I went and visited it. I was like, oh, this is such a cool property, but if they were going to sell it, I would be into it, maybe. So kind of planted that seed. It sat there, rental wasn't taking, and it wasn't for sale. So then they put it back on the market, back at that, like, kind of high price. And it sat there. I went and visited again, and I said, man, this is a really cool project.
And so I said, fuck it. I'm just going to throw caution to the wind. Let me see if I can get it for this number and the rest is history. They essentially said yeah.
And then I. I got it and it was like, even at my number, it was still way more than I wanted to spend on it. But I like really believed in the project and I really believed that it could be an awesome. And I've also wanted to live in this little neighborhood since the dawn of time, since I can remember. So it was like my foot in the door. It's my ability to get into this neighborhood for a price I could afford. Ish.
[00:35:51] Speaker A: Sort of where I'm sure I'm completely wrong, but you guys are into like you've had it for like a year now. Is it longer?
[00:35:59] Speaker B: I bought it in October of 2024.
[00:36:03] Speaker A: Two years into it.
[00:36:04] Speaker B: Two years into it. So there's an HOA. So I was really up against all of the rules and regulations of the hoa. They have a pret. Robust system of any kind of bigger remodel for the hoops you have to jump through. So I had to go through all the bureaucracy of that. And so yeah, it's. It's taking a lot longer than even my experience brain was prepared for. I know that these things are always 30% longer in time, 30% more in budget, 50% sometimes. Like I know all that stuff, but I was disillusioned that it wasn't going to happen to me. And it's. That's all the things have happened to me.
[00:36:41] Speaker A: It just. It hits different when it's hit.
[00:36:44] Speaker B: It does hit different because the other thing is I know better, so I should be doing better. But it doesn't matter. Like it, it's all the shit that is going to happen. It's all been thrown at me. Every single scenario wild.
[00:36:58] Speaker A: Okay, so let's talk about what it's like to be doing your own house and like how that works with like brand partners and like different opportunities. Because you are not the only designer in the world that's like going to be using it for their own content purpose. Like get to experiment and use it as a place that they can really push boundaries. So how is it working? How is working with brand partners on your own house different than working with like a client's budget and timeline? Like talk to us about those constraints or opportunities and like how that works.
[00:37:26] Speaker B: So I got really lucky early on in that we were approached by a pretty big brand to sort of manage bringing in all of these other partners into the project. So we decided to do the sunset idea house. I don't know if you are familiar with what that is. And it's a pretty amazing situation. So Sunset essentially comes in and they say, work with this brand, this brand, this brand, if you like them. And if you do, you'll get this, this. Whatever the stipulations around the contract are will be. So you get kind of these perks of things that you normally wouldn't get partnerships for. So getting things like siding or trim or roof or, you know, H vac. Like the stuff that isn't always the pretty stuff. That was fun because I got to kind of work with these brands in a different way. The windows and doors, like, of course, I always love the windows and doors, but. And I'm always very involved in the selection of windows and doors. But it was fun to be able to work with the brands in a way that they were sort of showing me that their capabilities probably a little bit more showy offy than it would be if I was just a customer, you know, walking into a showroom and saying, I like that. They were working to make sure that we were really happy with the end result. So I actually loved the brand process thus far. It's been great, but it's a lot more pressure because you're making the brand feel good about the partnership. But I also, it's my house, so I want it to be amazing on my end too. So I've just been very selective of who we're going to work with, how we're going to work with them. I haven't said yes to everything that's been offered to me as well, which is a big one. I've curated brands that feel like not only are a fit with the house, but also a fit with my brand. Like, would I use them afterward? And if the answer is no, then I'm not bringing them on to do this project. So it's been, it's been interesting, but it's not that much different than working with anybody and building a team with anybody. You're just basically just including brands into your team building process, which is unique.
[00:39:24] Speaker A: So am I hearing this correctly, that your house will be the Sunset Idea House in some year in the future?
[00:39:30] Speaker B: In some year in the future, yeah. Yeah.
[00:39:32] Speaker A: That's exciting. I didn't know that.
[00:39:34] Speaker B: It is. And it's awesome too, because not only is it like the feature in the magazine is one thing that's cool, but then they like host a big party, which is cool. So you have all these like industry insiders that come in and they tour the house and they talk when now I'm in the process I'm like, oh, what did I really bite off here? Am I gonna like this or is this gonna be hell? But so far it's been really great and they're fantastic partners to work with. It's been easy.
[00:39:58] Speaker A: Well, that's fantastic. And honestly, I'm surprised because as public of a figure as you are, I also think of you, Amber, as a pretty private person. And so this is an exciting opportunity for all of us stalkers to, to get to follow along a little bit closer and from a, from a different perspective.
[00:40:15] Speaker B: And I'm also doing YouTube, which is like a whole other thing which I haven't done well.
[00:40:20] Speaker A: That was a question that I had also because I was like, oh, I've definitely noticed that like YouTube is like kicked up and I'm like, I'm sure it has to do with the house and like what you have to document. I know from like when we did the tutor, when we did my house working with brand partners, a, it was the only way I could financially do my house, like, period. But like the list of deliverables is like, oh my, like being able, like you said, to represent them really well and like cover them in a really organic way that all just like gets built into your content calendar. Or is it different because it's through the idea house? And so maybe it's not the same as if you had like piecemeal the partners together yourself.
[00:40:58] Speaker B: Well, Andy on my team is a wizard and so she's very clear about the content and deliverables that we would be willing to do from the front end. So I'm never presented with, hey, you have to do 32 reels, like f off. I'm not doing 32 anything. I barely want to do 32 reels of my own, let alone for your brand. So I'm very clear about the deliverables at the get go. And if a client or a brand doesn't want to do it my way, it's typically not a brand fit because I'm also not going to non organically promote something. So I try to just think about the process as a whole and making sure that the deliverables are very organic and authentic to what I would do anyway. The YouTube content is really just completely for us. We just wanted to have this long or this longer form video format to be able to really share the process and it felt like a great fit to do that now. So we're not doing a ton. It's episodic. It's, you know, we're walking through the process and we've done two so far. There's only one that's come out. The second one, I think comes out pretty soon, but it's basically just talking about the brands, but we're really just kind of documenting the process. And I have always been asked to do tv and I've always turned down doing tv. But if I could harness it in a way that makes sense for me and my brand, then I'm going to do it in a way that I can edit, kind of. So that's what we decided to do with the YouTube. It's. It's so far. It's, you know, in the time commitment. Yes, it's all calendared out. I know when I'm going to be doing it, what I'm going to be doing. You know, my whole calendar is planned out until this time next year. Let's get real.
[00:42:31] Speaker A: This is the Oprah size question that nobody can ever answer, but do you see this as your forever home, or are you designing it with knowing that your favorite pastime is scrolling Zillow to see what else is out there?
[00:42:45] Speaker B: Well, you've heard it. I mean, I can't believe I'm even going to tell you this right now. So you can hear it here first. I'm actively doing this for a few different projects right now. So we. This is my own home, but we are, like, getting into the real estate development game.
So wild. I say we're getting into the game. We're in the game.
It depends if this is going to be one of our first ones that we sell or if this is going to be my forever home. Tbd. Right now, it's my forever home, but we are buying projects actively. So kind of crazy.
[00:43:25] Speaker A: Yeah. This definitely won't be your forever home if that's your answer. There's no way. You're not even in the house yet.
[00:43:31] Speaker B: Look, never say never. I want it to be my forever house. If I'm honest, it's really so awesome. I a hundred percent will not sell it before I move into it. How about that? I'm gonna at least live in it until my daughter is out of high school.
[00:43:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Which is only a few years away now, Right?
[00:43:49] Speaker B: I know.
[00:43:49] Speaker A: Yeah. She's old. She's such a big girl now.
[00:43:52] Speaker B: She's 17. It's crazy.
[00:43:54] Speaker A: I know. She's driving. I'm like, oh, my gosh, she's a foot taller than you.
[00:43:58] Speaker B: She's a foot taller than me. Everyone's like, I didn't realize you were so short. I said, I'm not short. She's 5 11. I'm not short. She is literally. I'm 5 8. She's a foot taller than me.
[00:44:10] Speaker A: I never thought of her dad as being super tall either.
[00:44:13] Speaker B: He's not.
[00:44:14] Speaker A: She just shot right up.
[00:44:16] Speaker B: We don't know where she came from. She's just all height. She's all legs.
[00:44:20] Speaker A: Little supermodel.
[00:44:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:44:22] Speaker A: Okay, so let's talk about the book. The book that just came out. It's your third book. What made this the right time to add another to the collection versus, I don't know, a reasonable time, like, five years from now.
[00:44:35] Speaker B: I was asked from my publishers. They're like, would you want to do another one? And I said, why not? Like, I'm shooting these projects anyway. We're wrapping up a bunch of projects. The. So again, this book was finished in 2024.
It's showing to the world in October of 2026. You turn in your manuscript a year before you see a physical copy of the actual book. So you're working on it the years prior to that. So as soon as Call It Home came out. I was already working on interiors. So the second one was out in the world. I was already working on the third.
I'm already working on four, which I said I would never do, but here we are working on the fourth. So I. Yeah, like, I don't know what waiting is. It's just been kind of part of my cadence of what I'm designing and what I'm doing. It's just books are part of that, and they're. They're a big labor. Like, they. Oh, my gosh. There's so much work, and no one knows until you're in it. But I actually really like it. I like the process, and I think it's fun, and I like it at the beginning. And then when I. When we have deadlines, I'm like, fuck this, and I'm never doing a book again. And this is the worst thing ever. What was I thinking? And then they come out. I'm like, oh, that's not so.
I'm a glutton for punishment.
[00:45:56] Speaker A: What? Okay. Thinking about you going really back to back and then thinking about what? I know that usually you have to, like, embargo projects or certain photos. And, like, how does that work with your own, like, content plan? Especially when you have the shop, like, you guys are shooting for a lot of. Lot more reasons than just your portfolio work. How have you. Have you been able to negotiate with your publisher to, like, see some sneak peeks? I Know, personally, I had been dying to see the lake house and like, there was a couple. We saw a bit of a reveal, and then it wasn't until I had my hands on the book that I was like, now I really get to see it. Like, how does that work from you? And how do you wrap your head around being okay with holding on to partnership photos even longer than the six years it took for you to, like, get the project done?
[00:46:42] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I don't do embargo. Like, I don't know what that even is. I don't care if someone says, don't post a photo. I'm like, why? I. I don't, I get it, but I don't really get it. I just had a couple of editor meetings in New York and it's funny because they like, hang on to don't show your project. That's why I don't really get a lot of magazine coverage. It's why I've never. I just keep the content for myself and I like to have the autonomy to do what I want to do. And I don't know if that's everybody's model. I don't know if that should be everybody's model, but it's been mine and it's been the only way that I've been able to be able to keep creating books and keep kind of my social media personally benefiting me instead of benefiting someone else. I, you know, it's like giving these magazines these ability to hold on to the pictures. It's great for them. It's terrible for me.
I, I want to be able to share content because by the time you're seeing it, I've already moved on to the next and, and I want it to everything to feel current. So I'm kind of like, magazines sort of hate me and, you know, it is what it is, but I keep the content for myself. And I just tell everybody that's working with me, like, I'm going to show what I'm going to show. And you don't get to embargo anything. And ultimately I like to keep little morsels for the book always. And that's just like. Mainly because social media, yes, it lives on social media forever, but people forget that you already posted things. People forget that you posted the same room three times or four times. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. I don't really care. None of the stuff that I'm doing is for anybody anymore. It's really just for, like, what do I feel good about? That's not true because I'm always selling something, but I guess, like, creatively I like to do and be able to show what I want to show. So I don't know. I never really considered holding off too much sharing for the book, but I always will keep, like five or six beautiful images that don't go to social media for sure.
[00:48:40] Speaker A: That is so important for everybody listening. I hear so many people who, you know, they're doing maybe two projects a year and they're sitting there waiting for X, Y and Z whatever publication to maybe take it and maybe run it in 18 months. And that is the only portfolio project they have to show in the last three years. And you are not the only person this season who has come on here and said, you know what? I built my following because I didn't give those photos to someone else. And I think it's important for people to hear that. There's definitely a feather in your cap from being published by AD whatever it is. But at the end of the day, what's really going to grow, either your following, if that's your priority, or your business, like, what is going to generate the calls for you to keep your doors open. So. So thank you for sharing that in your experience.
I'd love to know from your mouth what the difference is between your latest book, interiors and the first two, whether that's format, focus, or just, like, how personal it gets. What kind of differentiates it?
[00:49:40] Speaker B: The new book really goes through my specific process, and I gave it like a quippy, cute piece is what we're calling it. Like the patience, the panic, the procurement, the ponder, the play. I really gave a format to each chapter, each project with the process in which I attack it. So the way that I look at it, from when I'm playing with fabric all the way to when I'm installing and looking at the project and being proud of the project at the end, I gave it a process in a way that was very specific and formulaic, more than call it home or made for Living. So it's. It's really a deep dive into the house and the whys instead of just like, oh, this is what we did. Instead of a what, it's more of a how and a why.
[00:50:26] Speaker A: Okay, Amber, as we get closer to the end of the show, I want to walk through some, like, scheduling questions because I just don't know how you do it. I know that you have team members. I've obviously, I've worked with your team in a different facets before, and I still even to get this interview. We, you know, we had talked to your team. There was a date. It wasn't locked in. And then I was like, oh, I'd really love to get Amber in this season before you wrap it. But I'm like, you know, we've got three weeks left before we can do that, and somehow here you are magically making it happen. I know that I'm probably not the only person on the planet that feels like you're magical and that we're special and chosen ones. How. What roles in your team have you put in place to allow you to be all the things to so many people?
[00:51:13] Speaker B: I started when we first started talking. I trust every single person on my team. If I don't, then there's always friction, and it really causes issues later.
I'm very aware of, like, green flags and making sure that everybody on my team is waving green all the time. As soon as I feel like there's a red or there's something else going on, I tend to kind of nip that in the butt pretty fast because it's a recipe for disaster. So, number one, I trust my team completely.
Number two, I make sure that I fortify the parts of my team that can't. That can be replaced by me and the things that I can't be replaced by. So I know for a fact that if it's things like this, I can't put a team member in front of you. I can't launch a collection with a team member. I can't, you know, write a book with a team member. Like, all of that has to be me, and I have to be the one. You know, I can't go on TV or whatever I'm doing this week. Like, I have to be the person there. So I just make sure that all the other places that would require my presence are being filled by someone I completely trust to do that part of my job that I can't physically be there for. So I think it's just a team and making sure that everyone you hire is excellent and trustworthy. And green flags. Only green flags. Just lots of green flags everywhere.
[00:52:39] Speaker A: When that red flag, or let's say it's even an orange flag is being raised and you're. And you're catching it, how do you. When someone has made a decision on your behalf or on, you know, with. Completely within their responsibilities and roles and it's not the decision that you maybe would have actually gone with.
[00:52:57] Speaker B: Yeah, how.
[00:52:59] Speaker A: How do you coach them through that? Like, what are the corrections? How do you turn that flag back green.
[00:53:04] Speaker B: We just talk about it. I try to deal with when I can deal with everything in a head on manner as fast as possible. I don't like things to linger because I've again, I'm learning lessons every single day. I do not have it figured out. I literally wake up every single morning and learn something new every single day. And I think the second you get too complacent or the second you stop learning lessons is when you know the universe will come and bite you in the ass. I like to address things that don't work immediately so that I can get ahead of it for the next time, so that there won't be a next time. I find that if I ignore something or if I don't pay attention to something, those red. The orange gets red real quick and it will always become a bigger problem. I'm humbled all the time, but that's kind of the only way that I tackle.
I hate to like bury my head in the sand too much. I like to deal with it now.
If I see something, I say something.
[00:54:01] Speaker A: No, I think that's super helpful. I feel a lot of designers who are the principals are so emotionally involved in every decision that they'll sit on something, something made them feel a certain way and they'll sit on it and they're like, I don't want to confront them or they didn't technically do anything wrong. And then that festers and breeds just more problems down the road.
[00:54:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Would we call them Amber Alerts in the office?
Which is like not. Not very cool because I think an Amber Alert is like when a kid goes missing, which is horrible. But like, I don't think you're supposed to say that. But anyway, we do. We're like, those are bad. Those are. That's a bad thing that's happening.
[00:54:37] Speaker A: We all agree that, yeah, Amber Alerts are bad. We all don't have this.
[00:54:41] Speaker B: No.
[00:54:42] Speaker A: Would you say that it's safe to assume, Amber, that obviously when you're working directly with someone, I'm sure that you are giving positive reinforcement when you're like, like, you know, eye to eye with someone on your team, but there's a lot of times that they are not literally with you. Do you feel like you've gotten to the point where your team knows kind of like no news is good news from Amber, or do you feel like you are pretty proactive with like, nope, I'm patting backs all day long.
[00:55:09] Speaker B: I think it's a healthy balance. You can't. Toxic positivity. Things around here. And I think that that's one of the. The hardest lessons is that you want to tell everybody they're doing a great job until you telling them that they're doing a great job is literally inhibiting them from really doing a great job. I never am harsh, but I'm honest and I like to be direct and I like to be very real. Like, because you're dealing with personalities that you can't control, some people are just who they are. And running a team with a bunch of quirky personalities, you're going to get all manner of mix. But I like to say that if I set the tone, then everyone will follow. So I like to kind of be direct and mellow at the same time. And I'm. That is my expectation for my team. Like, I want you to be direct. We. I'm really perpetually always practicing, like, is that your feeling about the situation or is the actual situation. Is that your decision that it. Or are you filtering in your emotional perception of what happened? Or is that actually what happened? So I'm like, facts over emotions? Yes. Yeah, for sure.
[00:56:22] Speaker A: Do you have.
You know, I'll take as many as you've got, but a couple examples of things that you've been able to delegate that maybe in the past you were like, absolutely. Like, I have to be the person who's doing that. What are things that you've learned can be handled by someone else?
[00:56:39] Speaker B: Anything that I'm not good at. So whatever those the case may be there, I've just always backfilled and hired people that were filling a gap in my strength. So I never have been able to do CAD or technical. I can sketch, but not well, but I could get it, like, try to get a idea across.
So making sure that I hired really great technical designers that could take my idea to the end. I would say finance and the HR part of it, that's been something that I've had to delegate because, like, nobody wants me. I. My joke is, like, on Slack, I am the signer of check. I am. Because all of the. Everything kind of still goes through me, but I have a really trusted financial team that makes sure that we're keeping up relationships within some of these vendors that we're working with. I just realized, like, if I'm going to scale this business, I'm going to have to make myself what is my actual value and what can I provide the company that's going to scale it and then trust the team to be able to make that mission happen. So I don't know anything that I'm just muddying the waters on, I tend to step out of.
[00:57:48] Speaker A: Is there anything that is still on your plate today, Amber, that you have tried and failed to delegate?
[00:57:55] Speaker B: My gosh.
Well, I still touch everything in some small capacities. So I think I would like to completely delegate going to High point ever again. How about that?
[00:58:09] Speaker A: Yeah. And I was going to say, next time we talk to you, we'll be talking Andy on the podcast. It will not be you.
[00:58:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know. I think I would like to delegate myself. I'd like to clone myself and delegate myself to be everywhere that I'm supposed to be. Traveling is hard. You know, I travel a lot for work. I'm traveling all the time. I think I'm in like four states this month. It. It's crazy and I'm. I'm exhausted, so. But that's just kind of part of what I need to do. So any other parts of my business, I just, you know, don't really.
I can't be involved that much when I'm traveling this much. So I just have to really be on it with trusting the team.
[00:58:46] Speaker A: Okay, final two questions.
[00:58:48] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:58:49] Speaker A: Of the 16 person design team, let's say that number had to shrink tomorrow, what is the first role that you would absolutely protect? That. It's like we are, we cannot cut that.
[00:59:01] Speaker B: Oof. That's such a tough question. They're all important. I don't know. CAD and technical for sure. Procurement for sure.
FF&E and construction. So the way that I have my team parsed out is that procurement is Its own team, CAD&Technical is its own team, FF&E is its own team and construction is its own team. So I would definitely need to take at least one from each of those teams because they, they're the ones who make, you know, the projects go and they're specialized. But that's. You can't ask me to choose well
[00:59:31] Speaker A: and you won't have to. It's an irrelevant question, Amber.
Okay. And then lastly, what are you allowed to talk to us about that's coming up? Well, we heard, heard it here first about real estate development. Do you have any other big secrets you can spill?
[00:59:44] Speaker B: I have a candle line coming out that is happening. So it's Air Care is what we're calling it, but it's basically scents for the home. It's incense and burning papers and candles with all like, I've been working on this for a year and it's the most amazing smells you've ever smelled in your whole entire life. Packaging is beautiful. That's called House of Anora and it launches early next year.
And then yeah, like we're just growing shop trying to find some new retail locations out of state. So we got our eye on Texas right now.
[01:00:18] Speaker A: Like, don't make me pitch this again. I ask you every time I see you, I'm like, when are you opening in Austin?
[01:00:24] Speaker B: It's coming, we're working on it. And then, yeah, I'm writing a fourth book, which is crazy, but it's going to be all about my project, my home, the one I'm working on right now. Yeah, I'm so glad you said that
[01:00:36] Speaker A: because I was gonna.
[01:00:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:00:38] Speaker A: Well, Amber, this was fantastic. Thank you again so much for your time. I. I know it's a big pain in the butt and we are all super, super grateful for more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more. Don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] the Interior Collective thank you so so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations.
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Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living. A very special thanks to our episode sponsor, laloy, the makers of beautifully crafted rugs, pillow pillows and wall art, and season partner Materia, the design platform, helping interior designers source materials, manage specifications and streamline project workflows.
