[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Hi and welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey and today someone very special is back for another conversation. Marie Flanagan has been a part of the show since the very beginning. She was our first ever guest on season one of the podcast and has been on again since and is someone whose work in industry leadership I so deeply admire. For anyone new to Marie, she's the founder of Marie Flanagan Interiors, a Houston based full service design studio with projects spanning the country. Originally trained as an architect, her work is known for its soulful restraint, its mastery of light, and a layered warmth that feels deeply personal to every client. She has been featured in countless Shelter publications and has published two books and has brand collaborations with Visual Comfort and Annie Selke. All of that requires an enormous amount of photography, videography and content and today we are getting into exactly how she manages and delegates content creation of this scale, how her team plans a shoot, coordinates a photographer and videographer on the same project, how she thinks about licensing and rights, how brand partners factor into the production, and more.
If photography has ever felt like the last thing you figure out on a project, this conversation is going to reframe things for you entirely.
If you are still the one holding your projects together, there is a better way. Materio is the project delivery system built specifically for interior designers. One connected workflow from concept to handoff to billing, Interior Collective listeners get 50% off their free
[email protected] this episode is brought to you by Laloy. A new season means new rugs, pillows and designs to discover. And if you're headed to High Point Market, there's even more to see in person. Explore what's new and plan your market Visit@laloy rugs.com hi Marie, welcome back to the show. This is a very well anticipated episode because all of your episodes with us, you've been such a gracious guest are at the top of our list of number of not just listens but re listens. People listen to your episode over and over and over again. So thank you. Thank you for being here.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be back.
[00:02:20] Speaker B: Okay, so I have the previous episodes linked in the show notes for people so they can listen to those as well. I highly suggest you do. But for anyone who is newer to the show, can you give us a snapshot of where Marie Flanagan Interiors is today and what your role in that giant sphere looks like day to day?
[00:02:40] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So I am the principal and Creative Director of Marie Flanagan Interiors and we are a design Firm located in Houston, Texas. We have 18 incredibly talented women on the team who are the lifeblood of what we do.
We specialize in luxury residential, and we work all over the country.
As creative director. Today, I spend most of my time kind of overseeing the design vision across every project and ensure kind of everything is up to our level of quality and craftsmanship and basic brand consistency.
I spend a lot of my time working and mentoring with designers, helping solve creative and logistical issues that come up, meeting with clients, and kind of one of my biggest loves is the drafting and architectural detailing process. So I still find myself doing that often in my day to day.
[00:03:40] Speaker B: Because you studied architecture. Correct. And so that was like kind of the core root of everything. So any MFI project is so architecturally heavy. And I've had the immense pleasure of getting to experience some of your spaces in person when we've worked together. And you can just tell that that architecture background is so prevalent there.
Okay, I want to have a few follow up questions because the way your studio, the way you operate your studio, and the way you support your designers, essentially having like their own design studio within yours is so just like, meaningful to me. I'd love if you could just give a quick rundown of like, okay, so you have X number of design teams. Usually there's X number of people per project. What does that look like and what does that mean when I kind of reiterate that back to you after our past conversations?
[00:04:32] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, we started off or I started the company very slowly. I've grown it very slowly over.
I think we're at 17 years now. And, you know, for a long time it was just me. And then I hired my first designer. And, you know, I just try to think about what I would want in a career and what I would want as a designer. And I really want designers to be able to come in and have a big impact on what we're doing day to day. And I, I like to look for people to join my team who are incredibly capable. So I do expect a lot from my design team and because of that, they have a lot of autonomy and they also really get into the design decisions of one of our projects. So over the years, junior designers became senior designers, and today I've got currently four different design studios set up where each one is led by a designer who most of them have been with me anywhere between eight and 10 years.
So that was a slow growing, beautiful process to where, you know, their careers got to evolve within the company and they're able to Kind of grow their studios or keep them small based on what their passion is if they want to stay. Some designers don't want to manage a huge team of 10 people and become more of a creative director themselves. They want to stay in every decision, every design detail. They're the ones picking it all. So I kind of just try to explore that with each individual person because I believe in, like, taking people with you in your career and really kind of mentoring and building them up in the career path they want to go. So basically, those lead designers have smaller studios that they, you know, they're mentoring and teaching younger designers who then can kind of follow in their footsteps as the years go on and then beyond. So each of those studios has anywhere between two to four people.
And beyond that, we have a marketing team, and they kind of manage all the pr, photo shoots, logistics around kind of making our work known to the world.
And then we have a whole logistics team who they are not working with any one design studio or design team in particular, but they're just in charge of different projects or different clients. And they're the ones who kind of take the design once it's been approved and they order it. They deal with all the coordination, logistics, shipping, and help run all of our installs.
[00:07:13] Speaker B: Perfect, thank you. And again, go back and listen to that other episode because you guys talk about your. I think you called it your ordering meeting. Like, you have a meeting with both of those teams, logistics and the design team. And I haven't heard other studios do it that way, and I think it's so brilliant. So go back and listen to that episode. But last question before we really get into the bulk of today as a design firm, how are you handling billing? It's just like always top of mind for me is a flat rate hourly combination.
And do you provide specific estimates for your design time for a client in your proposals, or is it a constantly running number? You have, like, a very vague number and you're like, this is what it is.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: Yeah. So we almost always bill hourly, and I've always done it that way. I feel like I always will do it that way because there's so many different factors that go into that, and so much of it has to do with your design team and how, like, the project evolves.
So billing hourly kind of covers a world of different things that could possibly happen.
Some. Some design teams don't require a lot of hand holding, so that in turn saves the client a lot of money. Some, you know, we just worked on this one project that took Almost five years to finish, and they needed every bit of hand holding. So there's just kind of no way for us to gauge what a project's really going to look like from the signing of the contract.
So we bill hourly. Although I do have a few that I have built.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: Flat rate.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: Flat rate. Thank you. And I have one currently today, because that was the only way they would work. And I wanted the job so bad that I was willing to kind of do that. But almost never do I ever do flat rate.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: Well, that little bit of information is actually so interesting because it is a conversation I'm having all the time I talked to you about it offline once, that a lot of people are saying some clients are asking for flat rate and that's the way, like, that's what they need to get signed. So if you could give advice to a designer listening, who has a team that struggles to commit to their time tracking, that is, has a hard time enforcing how closely your design team needs to be tracking their hours, how. What would you say? How do you communicate that and really stick to it? Because that's everybody's biggest pain. Point is, like, it is a pain to track our hours and log every single thing.
Yeah.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: I mean, it is painful. And I wouldn't say anything's different at our office.
Nobody likes to track their time, including myself.
I'm probably the worst culprit in the office about tracking time, but I would just say it's super.
It's how the business makes money. So I just try to in all aspects of our work, I just think communication is so important.
And I think that by giving your team the why behind and help them understand what it's like to manage a business and how, like, you're doing this not only to kind of make money from your clients, but to build a firm that will give you the career that you're looking for. And so kind of teaching them the why behind some of the processes that you have in place is always a good idea, but it is painful. And I'm hoping AI will come and, like, save the day for us one day soon.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: Okay, so you are running a design studio. You have two published books, multiple very robust brand collaborations.
How do you think about all of those verticals of your business working together to tell one cohesive brand story? Because I look at MFI from the outside, and I think you've done such an incredible job of remaining approachable and feeling attainable without sacrificing the highest caliber of design aesthetic, pushing boundaries, and it's a Very difficult thing to be able to merge. And you guys are doing a great job. So how are you thinking about all of those to tell one clear story?
[00:11:33] Speaker A: Thank you. I appreciate that coming from you, and you've helped us with that along the way, so thank you.
For me, it starts with a clear point of view, and I think it's important to stop and ask yourself, who are you as a designer? Who are you as a design firm? And kind of create that definition. We, you know, I kind of, as a marketing team, I like to kind of call us. We like to be the big sister of design. Like, not only are we doing luxury interiors across the U.S. but we want to be the mentor, the helper, the teacher across our platform. So we do. And I think it's also kind of who we are as a culture and as people.
You know, we want to be approachable. We want to be easy to work with. We want to. We want to be somebody who.
Clients aren't afraid to give us their point of view on what beauty is to them.
We want to welcome all of that in and from every aspect of what we do, from projects to products to books, whatever it is. We try to go back to our core values as a company and make sure that that is the brand story.
So we kind of want every part of our business, the products, the homes, the speaking engagements, the books, we want it all to kind of support each other. Obviously, the design studio creates the work. The designers are seeing holes in the market, seeing products we want to use and can't get our hands on. And so that is what inspires the product. Then we use those products in our homes. And the books are a way for us to kind of showcase our work and the work of so many, even outside of our team, to the world and kind of produce more.
More clients from it.
[00:13:22] Speaker B: Our team at Quinn has had the immense privilege of working with you guys on set and also with your latest website launch. Congratulations. It's very recent over the years, which means that I have gotten to experience firsthand how much thought goes into how your work is presented to the world. Your team is.
If I had to describe your team in one statement, it absolutely is easy to work with it from any aspect. It has always been so easy to work with you, and now you guys are working with a local videographer. And before we get into the mechanics of it, how would you describe your overall philosophy around photography and visual storytelling? At the top of the show, you talked about how it's important to you to, like, carry your people with you and grow. And I know that that's true with, like, who you've used for photo, who you've used for video over the years. So what is your philosophy to that? To make sure that there is this visual consistency while still elevating.
[00:14:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
Well, first of all, I just want to say, you know, I especially, as I get older in my career, I really just love to find people, I love to work with and have fun with and gather them all together and let's have fun doing this.
And I have to toot your horn for a minute because we love you guys. We love working with your team. When I talk about you, I always comment at your incredible work ethic. And you're just so. You're such a hustler in the best way, and you have such a commitment to your team, which I really relate to. And I feel like we kind of found each other and have created beautiful work together. So proud of our website we just launched, and you guys were such a, you know, a foundational piece of helping us kind of develop our video strategy, to which I'm super grateful for.
As far as our philosophy, I would just say that, you know, we're always kind of, again, going back to how we approach interiors with thoughtfulness, timelessness. What is the story behind the house and what we're trying to say to whether it's our followers, whether it's a magazine.
We're trying to define kind of the. The soul of the house and what makes it unique and also telling the story of the people who live there. So we don't just want to capture pretty spaces. We really want to kind of share the atmosphere, share the emotion, share the story behind each of the rooms and who's living there.
And.
Yeah, I would. And as far as my team, I work so much with Julie Sofer. We've probably worked together for, at this point, 13 years.
And, you know, back in the day, hiring a photographer was such a huge investment and it was such kind of a risk. And we saw Julie's work and just knew we wanted to take a chance because photography has always been, like, super important to. To me in the business. And as you know, in the world of interiors, it has evolved from photography to video, and so we have evolved alongside of it.
[00:16:44] Speaker B: Let's talk about that investment piece of it and like, how, you know, 13 years ago, if you said you guys have been in business almost 17 years, that was earlier in your career that you really, like, locked into your partnership and collaboration with Julie. How did you.
How did you like Stomach account for and actually make it feasible to plan to have a photographer of that caliber and of that expense on your projects. Because I hear so often from people that they're like, at the end of the. At the end of a project, there's just not money to have it photographed to that level. Talk to us about how you actually make that happen and then also coach us through why you feel like you have to make it happen.
[00:17:33] Speaker A: Well, I would definitely say day one, I could not afford to hire Julie Sofer. You know, I was.
I was trying to be scrappy myself. And I would take so many of the pictures early on, just myself looking back at those pictures. I laugh, but, you know, it was all I could do. I was lucky that back then, you know, social media was just kind of rolling. It wasn't kind of what it is today by any means. So it was a way for me to get out my work basically free. And that's one thing I love about social media. It's that it puts everybody, for the most part, on the same playing field. Everybody has access to shareholders, their creative work.
So once we kind of. I think I had like two or three team members at that time, and I was able to kind of, okay, we need to kind of go bigger on photography. We had tried a few smaller photographers, but at the time, to get in a magazine, you had to produce really high quality work. And it was back when, you know, it was back when print was king. And so if any picture was seen online anywhere, they would not run it. And that is not the story today because digital has won out. But back then we knew we. We wanted to do so much of the heavy lifting for the magazines to show them what this project could be, even if they wanted to come back and shoot it themselves.
So we found Julie Sofer. I think my marketing director at the time found Julie, and we met and we just kind of hit it off. And I remember those early days. Even. Even Julie had. Was somewhat young in her career, and we kind of have grown up together. Like, I remember days where we would. The two of us would be like moving sofas ourselves, just the two of us on site. And, you know, I kind of think if you're a younger, smaller designer, you have to find those people or who are hungry alongside of you, because, you know, the robust team I have on these shoots today, I mean, there's just no way I could have done that as a smaller company.
And so as my business grew, I grew the team that was surrounding, showing off those projects to the world. And the thing you have to remember in the investment is that there is a return on the investment. It's getting this work that sometimes you've spent years to create, and it's what kind of returns all of that work back a hundredfold, because you can share it in so many different ways.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: Let's talk about it from, like, an accounting perspective, because I think that there's also a shift in how people think about what category this photo shoot goes into. I have a lot of designers who will sit there and tell me, like, okay, at the end of a project, you know, it went. We did flat rate. We worked way more than there was. Like, we're actually not very profitable on this project. I don't have money to shoot this. But then there's also people who say, our photographer or photography budget for the year, that is in our marketing bucket. And it doesn't really matter at the end of the day where we fell on that specific project, because we're looking at kind of the year as a whole to make sure that we get those images. How do you financially plan for it? Are you like, okay, we know that we're going to shoot this project. Do you guys even have projects you don't shoot anymore? I feel like you guys shoot everything.
But how do you think of it from like a, we have to make this work, even if, you know, margins are lower at some season.
[00:21:03] Speaker A: Well, to answer your question, we try to only take on jobs that we will want to shoot. But no, as far as marketing budget, I don't think I have ever thought about it is how profit, how profitable that job was. And I don't think that's a good way to think about it.
You should take whatever budget you have and photograph your best projects, no matter which ones they are. Even if you lost money on that job.
Showcase your best work, because that's what matters.
[00:21:32] Speaker B: I agree. I feel like photos, even if you can only get six shots of a project, because maybe the project the client pulled back and they didn't do the whole house like they thought, or maybe they weren't able to furnish everything. I think getting even those six quality photos is like the most important thing you can do. So I want to talk a little bit on the video side of things as well, because I think right now everyone listening is like, got it. I know I need to do photography. Like, I'm on board. I get that. But people are like, do I need to worry about video again? You guys have handled video in such a way that, like, I feel like Watching your video, I feel a personal connection to you, but it still is like, oh, that's a Marie Flanigan project. You know, that's an elder core project.
How important do you think video is for someone who maybe isn't at the Marie Flanagan level yet? As far as the types of projects and budgets that they're receiving, how important is video to them and what level of execution? Like, how much of that marketing budget should be going to video versus having those photos done? Can it just be iPhone? What does that look like to you?
[00:22:44] Speaker A: Well, I would say video today is the photography of 10 years ago. I think you absolutely need video if you want. If you are looking to gain more clients and if you're looking to market your work to the world, I would say you absolutely can do cell phone video. I think that that's a great place to start. And honestly speaking, some of those more raw, real photos get way more traction online than some of our, like, more perfect and polished videos. You know, that's kind of a constant personal struggle for me because I want everything we, everything we produce to be at a certain brand quality. But there is something that people are hungry for on social media and on digital platforms that feels 100% real.
And we try to lean into that a little bit while kind of keeping the brand standards up to the level that we want them.
But no, I think if you don't have the budget, start with your iPhone, start with asking your husband or wife to come and shoot you on site.
I think especially with I mentioned AI already, but with AI coming into the world so strongly, I know when I open my phone, it almost kind of makes you not even want to be on the social media platforms anymore because you don't know what's real.
So I think that is feeding into this kind of desire for, like, I want to know this is a real designer. I want to know this is a real home. And sometimes that raw video is what people want to see. So I wouldn't be afraid to do that.
[00:24:25] Speaker B: I have to say that Jasmine on your team, her video content that she shoots with you is so incredible. It's so good. I'm often looking at it. I'm like, shoot. We literally couldn't have done that better.
But it is interesting, as you say, as the principal, to be looking at it and wanting every single thing that goes out. Like, you want a professional polish. And then I'm sure Jasmine's coming to you with data. And it's like, you can't ignore the data sometimes, and you have to kind of follow your audience's lead. So I want to get into, like, the philosophy behind your shoots. When you were looking at a finished project and thinking about a shoot, what is the first conversation you are having with your team?
[00:25:05] Speaker A: What.
[00:25:05] Speaker B: What are you trying to accomplish before anyone actually picks up that camera?
[00:25:12] Speaker A: I mean, I think the first conversations we have is not necessarily like a shot list, but more of a let's define the story, and let's define the soul of the house. And what are the unique aspects? Who are these people living here? Why did they ask for certain things? What makes this project different than other projects?
So a lot of times, just practically speaking, that all starts with, you know, kind of even backing up weeks before the shoot ever happens and getting the marketing team, getting the stylist, all a part of the conversations with the designers.
Because the design teams and I have been working on these projects from anywhere between two to five years. So there's so much history, and some of it we've forgotten along the way. You know, issues that came up or, you know, we've been looking at the same design details for so many years straight, they kind of disappear to us now. So there's a little bit of, like, pull out the story from all of us and remind us kind of what the original vision was to begin with. And nowadays we even try to, like, make notes as we go along to jog our memory of some of these, whether it's a funny story or just, like, a really thoughtful detail that we put into the architecture.
And then it goes back to kind of explaining to the marketing team the why behind what we're doing. And another beautiful thing about my marketing team is that none of them are designers by trade.
So what I love about what they bring is that fresh audience perspective of, okay, what does it mean when you say that? Or maybe they walk on a site and they're like, wow, this is so cool. And then the design team's like, oh, we do that all the time. But it allows us to kind of see things with a new perspective and with new design eyes and kind of, you know, gives us that perspective of what the audience might be thinking or feeling. So, you know, we always try to do a lot of prep work ahead of time to get everybody on the same page. And then, you know, your team was instrumental in helping us kind of develop a foundation for our video and what a video shoot looks like. So there's a lot of prep work, even on the video side, separately from the photography of kind of what story are we trying to tell how do we get different angles. And really we're trying to create a bank of imagery that we can use in any platform in any way we want.
[00:27:40] Speaker B: If you've been running your firm for a few years now, you've probably got a system in place. And I do use that term loosely. It's going to be a mix of apps, some spreadsheets, maybe a project project management tool that was close but never quite right. And you are still the one holding it all together.
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[email protected] I want to back up a little bit to that concept of, you know, what is a story we're trying to tell when you're thinking of it both from a photo shoot and a video shoot perspective, you just were usually shooting with you right after an install or very shortly after in some cases, you guys are still hanging art on the walls while while it's happening. But do you guys have you already discussed discussed internally like what publication you're hoping this goes to? I know Julie has a big part in where things are going because she, like you said, she's such an incredibly impressive photographer that's been published everywhere. Do you guys have that in mind or are you creating so much content now that you're finding that you're prioritizing? How does this look internally with our brand and hopefully X, Y and Z publication ends up picking it up.
[00:29:43] Speaker A: I would say over the last 10 years that has been a complete shift of we were only focused on what magazine would pick it up 12 years ago and now we kind of think of ourselves as the magazine and we're more thinking how can we share this story first? How can we get the eyes on it first so that it comes back to our team and our platforms and our.
Our brand, basically. And thinking less about the publication, we will still pitch it to every publication. And we basically kind of have favorites for each one, depending on the style of the home. You know, we typically always go to national brands first. But, you know, if you're a younger designer who doesn't have as many contacts with national brands, I always think it's interesting to know that as far as new business is concerned, it's the local, smaller magazines that bring you the new business. You know, it's more the bragging rights that you get with the, you know, national publications. So, you know, we do start with the national publications, but we try to pitch it to as many places, and if typically they'll give you like a hold that you can't share it with anyone else for this number of months, but then after that we'll pitch it to the next one and see how long we can get a project to kind of work for us and how long we can get that investment to give returns.
But nowadays, I would say we're even more focused on how quickly we can share it. So we will give it to a magazine for digital much faster than we would back in the day. So we'll let Architectural Digest run something on their digital platform, no problem, because it means we can share it much faster. Where, you know, sometimes you're waiting on print publications for up to a year, sometimes longer, and so you're just kind of holding these assets and they're not doing anything for you.
[00:31:43] Speaker B: If you are still the one holding your projects together, there is a better way. Materio is the project delivery system built specifically for interior designers. One connected workflow from concept to handoff to billing. Interior. Your collective listeners get 50% off their free month. @getmaterial.com you mentioned how great local presses for actually getting clients. You also earlier in the show mentioned that video has proven really helpful for actually getting new clients. Can you speak to both of those concepts a little bit more elaborate?
A little bit more elaborately in the sense of. I think people need to hear that again because, like, everybody's like, 80. Is it like, I will wait, I will hold this project for five years if that's what it's going to take with 80. And I just think with someone who turns the volume of projects you do, I'd love to hear more about, like, what is actually driving new quality inquiries.
[00:32:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I would say it depends on what your goals are. If you want to say, I am an Ad published designer, by all means, hold out. They are, you know, one of the creme de la creme magazines.
But if you're looking for new work, when somebody picks up an ad, they're looking to be inspired. They're looking for sources, they're looking for all these beautiful things. They're not necessarily thinking, this person is down the street, I should hire them for my house.
But, you know, I always love to give the example. You know, the Houston Chronicle, our magazine, our newspaper. Excuse me. I have never gotten so many. I saw you in this, I saw you in that. I do the local newspaper.
So although that might not be the most glamorous place to get published, it by far gives me, you know, three leads every time I'm in it. So.
So don't look past some of the smaller magazines or the local magazines, because when people do pick them up, they understand this is local. And not that people are always hiring local designers, but if you're somebody smaller trying to, you know, get started, it's a great place to be proud of, having your work be shown.
[00:33:48] Speaker B: And also, just to clarify, I have found that almost all local publications are happy to take a project after it's already run nationally. In a lot of cases, they're excited to because they're like, well, you know, Eldacor liked this project. Of course, we want to feature it locally as well.
[00:34:04] Speaker A: And also, I want to say, don't ever be afraid of people telling you no. Like, ask as many people as you want to run it, and all they can do is say no. And I think that's super important as an entrepreneur, is like, don't be afraid of rejection. It takes, you know, a hundred rejections to get that yes, but somebody will say yes.
[00:34:22] Speaker B: And then one last question before I go back to the questions I promised you I was actually going to ask.
When you were talking, you mentioned video specifically. You feel like that can help lead to leads? Are you. Do you feel that that's the case? I know you guys have a great YouTube and you have, you know, you're across many different channels. Is there a specific channel that you're like, this is actually what has driven a lot of quality leads?
[00:34:48] Speaker A: That's a good question.
I would say, in my opinion, the.
The.
Such. The benefit of video is to show a dynamic view of the space, what it really looks like. A lot of people, you know, have been on to Photoshop for a long time. And, you know, I think there's a kind of a realness to video that they know, okay, the space Feels like this. It looks like this. Bless you.
But also, you know, there's nothing that drives brand recognition more than a face.
So it's so important to get yourself in front of the camera and talk, and it allows people a chance to kind of get to know who you are and to get to know a little bit about your brand culture. Even if you have a robust team behind you, there's no better way to recognize any company than a face behind it. So I think that is a nice way for people to kind of get an insight into what it might be like to work with you.
[00:35:48] Speaker B: Okay, let's go back to the planning phase.
Obviously, I know intimately, like what your team looks like when it comes to planning these things.
I'm curious, for someone who doesn't have a cat and Jasmine on their team and they're planning a shoot and it's them, the principal, maybe with some help from someone on the team planning a shoot, what does your involvement look like currently versus your team's involvement in that planning? Because I think a lot of people are like, I can't even wrap my head. Like, I just did install. I cannot even fathom planning a shoot around this. So at this point, when you have hired a team, what does that look like? How involved? What is the time commitment for you leading up to shoot day and even while being on set?
[00:36:38] Speaker A: Well, today, what it looks like is we're typically planning a month out, and where that planning starts is with the styling team, and they're meeting with our designers, talking about each room pulling that story out. And then the marketing team kind of gets involved at that point where they're talking about, you know, this really the same ideas. What's special about this project? What makes it different than other projects? What is the point of view we can talk about? What's the story?
And, you know, I would say how it's changed so much that, you know, I used to be that designer where I just finished the install. We're trying to shoot a project, and I'm just kind of, you know, I have some notes in my pocket, and we're rolling, you know, But I feel like, you know, we've learned to make so much more out of the investment by doing the planning up front, coming up with the shot list, coming up with the stories, coming up with the talking points are. So we have a local videographer on retainer. And the reason why we do that is because we want to tell so much more than just, here's the pretty picture at the end. We want him to be able to come into our office and show us working on the project. We want shots of the framing stages. We want them to just be able to run down the street and see what is the day to day look like behind making this house come to life. And so there's a little bit more access to the project in that way from the marketing team side. They're seeing kind of every step of the process and like what goes behind the walls, basically. And so, you know, we. We're coming to these shoots with a much more robust plan nowadays, which I have been thrilled with the way it's being developed. And it's still a work in progress. I mean, we're learning new things all the time. You know, we. We kind of spent so much time focused on Instagram and now we're kind of trying to branch out to other platforms as well. Like you mentioned YouTube.
So it's, it's a work in progress. But we, you know, we come to the shoot with all those ideas and thoughts and then beyond that, let creativity spark and add to the shoot. But at least people, when they arrive to the site, they know what they're doing.
Check the light, pick a place to start, and we're rolling. And it's a much better way to take advantage of the day versus trying to plan when you're there.
[00:38:59] Speaker B: The days go so fast. They go. They fly by.
I am curious, on a Marie Flanagan project, when you guys show up to set, you're talking about the styling team.
How much styling items are you guys really bringing in? How much is getting used? That's actually the clients. Like, what does that look like? How heavy of a lift is that? And has that shifted as your career has built? Like, are things more really finished when you guys walk in or are you still having to bring in a lot of stuff? Because I think that's another trepidation people have is like, I am going to have to bring in 10,000 books to this house.
[00:39:36] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's always a hard thing. And I would say it depends on the client. And you know, something that has shifted in recent years, you might be interested to know, is that we are much less. We used to always try to pair the photo shoot with the install and we've kind of given that up. Although I loved the efficiency of that. We're just doing so much planning and so much work and so many different people coming in for the marketing side that we are waiting and we're basically so. But we still bring our styling team in for the install. So basically we're we're bringing the styling team in, we're styling the shoot. And it depends on what gets left behind. So often we have a budget for accessories, but it may not be enough or maybe the client wants to use most of their own collections. So it really depends on where it falls. And now we've kind of got a time period where we see, see where the, where the projects fall as far as, like, what's been left behind, what is the state of the house.
But we, we're truly trying to finish the homes to the level of they're ready for photography. So I would say most of the time they're like that. But sometimes our styling team does have to bring in so much. And, you know, I always say nobody works harder than a stylist because there's just so much that has to be brought in. There's so much that has to be brought right back out. And, you know, we always try to make sure that we're respecting the homeowner, respecting the home, making sure, you know, everything gets put back exactly where it was. And there's just so much work behind that.
[00:41:18] Speaker B: I know that you said at this point in your career, you're really not taking on projects that you don't plan to capture for whether internal content, a future book potentially, or any of those things. Can you remember back to a time when you did have to weigh, like, what's going to get photographed, what's going to not, and talk to us about what the criteria was that helped you make that decision? Because I do think that a lot of listeners do still have to pick and choose what's going to get shot.
[00:41:48] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think we've done it so many different ways over the years. You know, most of the time we're having Julie shoot it, but when we're not, she also has a photographer in her studio that doesn't cost as much as her. So sometimes we'll bring, bring that in. It depends on jobs that maybe we. So we build most of our homes not as the contractor, but we are a part of the build process and all the design details that go behind that. Sometimes we'll do a furniture only project. And so it just depends on, you know, if we, if we can't show most of the home and it's really just some furnishings, sometimes we won't shoot that as quickly.
You know, it really just depends. And because we have a marketing team in house, sometimes it's just the marketing team. And actually I used to have someone on my marketing team who did kind of light touch photography. And so on those smaller projects, I would just have my person do it.
And that worked well for what we were trying to do for that role,
[00:42:59] Speaker B: because I do think for a lot of studios, someone who can handle marketing that is comfortable taking photos can be a really great solution, especially if someone is building a lifestyle brand and, like, they need more content than just, you know, final install.
What were some of the other roles, if. Do you recall what other tasks that person was responsible for besides just that light photography, like you said, went as needed.
[00:43:26] Speaker A: She did all of the. Basically, what Jasmine does for me now, she did all of the content creation posting on social media, and I would say that was more her primary role. But she had a love for photography, and, you know, she was just starting out and playing with it back then. But since then, she has gone on to become a photographer here in Houston. So, you know, it was. It was a great stepping stone position for somebody who loves photography, is interested in social media and developing a brand, and it worked. It worked.
[00:43:58] Speaker B: Well.
Your work is so defined by its relationship to light.
How much does that influence when and how you schedule shoots with Julie? And what happens when the light just does not cooperate? Like, what are the fixes? How do you resolve that when you're, you know, $20,000 into something?
[00:44:18] Speaker A: Right. No, I know.
I wish we only could schedule around beauty and light. Unfortunately, it comes down to everybody's incredibly insane schedules. But, I mean, that's really why we work with Julie, is because she's a master at manipulating light. And, you know, there's been many a days she's been crouched in the corner of a powder room with no windows and, you know, getting that magic light. So, you know, I think it's so important to work with people who know what they're doing and. And, you know, we've worked so long together that sometimes I don't, you know, I don't even sometimes go to the shoots anymore because I trust that she's going to come in. She's a leader. You know, she's assertive. She knows how to, like, okay, the light's coming in the house this way. This is where we're starting. And she, you know, we worked together for so long, she knows what I'm looking for. And, yeah, I mean, they basically follow the light and they check weather, too. I mean, weather plays a big role in what we're doing, especially if you're trying to get the outside, especially if you're trying to get those moody, you know, beautiful shots. So we're always kind of checking weather, making sure we get those important spaces when we can. And I think that's important to think about when you're, when you're planning a photo shoot, if you're expecting rain, you know, plan around that and plan around kind of the, the way the days
[00:45:38] Speaker B: are looking, you have a director of marketing and PR and a content creator on your team.
How are those two responsibilities divided when it comes to planning and executing a shoot? Because I know that I've worked closely with both of them.
And so from your eyes, how are those two roles different when we're specifically talking about photo shoots?
[00:46:07] Speaker A: Well, Kat is our director of marketing and pr and she, I would say, leads the production of it all. Like I would even call her our producer, especially when it comes to photo shoots and video.
She coordinates schedules, manages the logistics behind everything and, you know, kind of keeps everything running smoothly. While Jasmine's more of our, you know, creative thinker and she's focusing on the strategy and developing, you know, content ideas and shot lists and stories that will resonate with the audience. And she's the one who kind of has her finger on the pulse of the data behind all the platforms. So she knows kind of what people are looking for. So it's really a yin and yang. And they're so complimentary to each other and they work really well together. They have completely different strengths. And Kat also, she runs all of our pr, so she's a very talented writer. And so she's the one who's communicating with the magazines or the partnerships or the, the brands that we collaborate with. And she's kind of helping to write the story, the deaf, the descriptions of the rooms or the products, whatever it is. So she's kind of a big communicator for us.
[00:47:22] Speaker B: I love them both so dearly and I learned so much from them. Every time I have any sort of interaction, I'd love a little bit further clarity when it comes to styling, because styling and prep for shoot, as you mentioned, is incredibly time consuming. It's very laborious.
How does your team handle that? Because I know you have your design team there on set or portion of the design team that was on that project that's on set.
What do you bring in a separate stylist? Is someone on your team acting as the stylist? And what guardrails have you put in place so that even though someone else is styling, it's still feels like you?
[00:48:01] Speaker A: Well, just like Julie, I have a really long term relationship with my stylist who actually Came from editorial. She used to work for Meredith Publishing. So she came with this art direct. I think she was like an art director of some sort. And so she came with the idea of I know what looks good in magazines. And so she is a true asset. And so we've again worked on so many shoots over the years.
You know, literally going to the grocery store and picking out lemons and, you know, grabbing cutting boards and putting them on and talking about how casual or how formal we wanted to feel. We also, because of all those hours and hours on set together, she's got such a great understanding of what I'm looking for as a brand.
So today, you know, she actually meets directly with the design team.
They describe the house, take her through the house, sometimes she's even with us, and then she kind of helps pull the accessories.
But that being said, the design team, who's walked this house since birth and conception, they are not letting the project go in any means when it comes to accessories. So oftentimes they have seen styling photos of what each space should look like based on our original concept that we created together.
And so we will do our own accessory pulls for an install, and then Jessica will also bring in supporting items because she's kind of thinking it from a photo shoot perspective, and we're thinking it from a living perspective. So between the two of us, we bring accessories, and we kind of have it down to a science where even at the install, we kind of create our own little store, and it's divided by where we got it from, so we know where the heck to take it back.
And, you know, we're kind of shopping in our own store, making sure everything kind of feels the way we want. And it's not just the design team who is involved in the project that are that is styling the house.
We divide the entire house up by all the design teams. So everybody is there and everybody is styling their assigned spaces. So that makes it very efficient. And then the lead designer, whoever that is, goes through with me, and we kind of make sure everything feels to where we want it feels the way the clients are going to be happy with it. And then the house is set, and then from there, the styling team looks at where we're at and is like, oh, we could really use this rocking wooden horse in the nursery. You know what I mean? Not something that the clients necessarily want or need, but that thing that kind of might give the personality of room needs.
[00:50:44] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
You also have, like, another added layer of complexity to shoots in the sense that you have beautiful product collections. And I'm just curious for someone, you know, who's excited about getting into product development, how you plan for that on a shoot as well. I know that you guys bring in your own pieces. Are those things that. Do you shoot everything the way you want it published for a magazine, one way, and then you layer in your own product? Do you feel like your own product is always naturally layered in because you have filled gaps in something that you actually needed? Or is there maybe sometimes a little bit of both?
[00:51:27] Speaker A: Absolutely. A little bit of both. We are constantly using the product in our work, just naturally. And so we always take advantage of photo shoots to get extra shots of those things so that we can showcase the work.
We plan separate shoots to only photograph product, I would say, is a little bit more where we get the bulk of our product. Shots are like separately dedicated shoots.
But beyond that, sometimes when we're just launching a new product, there's a lead time with manufacturing.
So if I could get my hands on something that is not out to market yet, but that I have a sample of, I will absolutely bring that to a photo shoot and get as many photos of it as I can to help promote the piece and really, you know, showcase how we see using it, even if I'm not leaving it behind for the client.
[00:52:22] Speaker B: How does the review process work for you when you come back from a shoot? Obviously, you've been working with Julie for a long time, so I imagine that it's. It's tight, it's efficient, it's easy.
Is there a formal approval process? Is it an ongoing conversation with your team? Do the girls see everything before it's even presented to you?
What does approval look like as Steph is coming back?
[00:52:47] Speaker A: I do not have a formal approval process.
I would say that is because two things. One, when we're shooting with Julie, we're shooting tethered, which means the computer is plugged into the photograph, the camera. So as we're shooting, that's when I'm approving the shots. And I'll give critiques on, oh, hey, can we. There's still a piece of blue tape on the wall. Can we get rid of that?
Things like that. So that's kind of where I'm giving my editing. And so when I get the pieces back, I'm not going through this formal review because we have such capabilities in house. If something got missed, often we'll just do it ourselves.
Because it's not really a big editing job at that point.
If it's something more major, that we'll send it back. We'll send that shot back and ask Julie's team to edit it. And then for video, as far as we're working more towards just creating a video library and bank.
And so I am not necessarily going through. It would take too much time for me to go through everything.
But I'm, I'm more seeing the assets as they're developed from that bank and then giving my critique there. And if I don't like a certain shot, I'll just ask it to be replaced by something else.
[00:54:07] Speaker B: Okay. I want to help get a baseline understanding for people who are interested in maybe adding video to photo shoot. How many shoot days does a project typically involve involve? Obviously, I mean, a third 3,500 square foot house and a 10,000 square foot house, that's going to be a different number. But in general, what would you advise people to be like, you need to plan for it to be two days or we absolutely can get this done in a day. What does that look like?
[00:54:37] Speaker A: Well, my team would laugh probably because I'm always like, we could do this in a day, right? No big deal. And they're like, no, no, we cannot.
So I'm usually the one who answers the lesser amount of days, probably because I'm the one like dealing with the marketing budget. But I would say most of our shoots are two days. If the, if the house is like you mentioned, it's. It's mostly about size and how many spaces we're trying to shoot.
I would say we are doing a lot of three day shoots today.
And I think shooting tethered slows you down and so you're perfecting that, that shot and you're spending a lot more time, you know, just shifting things from here to there slightly.
Where, you know, back in the day when we didn't shoot tethered, we were just clicking, clicking, clicking and getting every angle really quick. So it depends on how you're shooting and what you think. It's always important to talk to the photographer, walk them through the spaces, if you can even get in the house, have that conversation with them. Some photographers are faster and some are slower.
So it just depends on who you're working with and the type of kind of performance perfectionism that you want to achieve.
We're kind of finding a balance. We want that perfect shot for portfolio. We want it for the book, we want it for, you know, high level magazines. But for social, you know, we're not looking for that perfection. An image sometimes comes and goes and it's alive for a day.
So we're trying to kind of find the balance in types of content and getting a mixture of both. Like we're looking for that hero shot for the room, but then the detail shots can be a little bit faster, a little bit kind of showing how the room got put together and close ups. So we try to kind of, you know, straddle it.
[00:56:25] Speaker B: I would love you to weigh in on this, but in my experience being on set with, you know, we've been on set with a lot of different photographers. If you're shooting tethered, I think like a good rule of thumb is to assume that major living spaces like the common area, showstopper rooms, it's. You should plan on your photographer being in there for like 90 to 120 minutes in that room. And if you can think about things taking maybe, maybe some rooms can be as quick as an hour. But like, I think you should be planning on a full hour in each room and maybe that can help you plan how long you're actually going to need. And you still need it to be light outside. So that gives you, you know, you're going to cover six rooms that day.
I don't know if you feel like that's about where you guys are with Julie, but that's kind of the average.
[00:57:12] Speaker A: I think that's actually a great rule. And I was, well, earlier I was trying to think. Julie has a very similar rule to what you're saying. And it's something very similar to when she's kind of trying to estimate how long a shoot will take.
[00:57:25] Speaker B: And that's assuming that a stylist has already preset a room a photographer is walking in ready to shoot it. There's going to be some styling tweaks once the, once the camera set up. But that is not like, okay, the stylist is moving there and now we're adding florals, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:57:39] Speaker A: So just for people that keep that in mind, I should also say on top of that two or three day shoot, we are often adding an entire day of just prep. So the stylist is coming in and working for almost an entire day just getting the house ready, getting the flowers ready to go. And they're typically not even 100% ready to go. It's just the first few rooms are ready to go because there is a little bit of magic that happens the day of where you get behind the lens and you see what works and what doesn't. Sometimes you have to change out the flowers or pick a Different throw. So you have to leave time and room for that. And also if you're trying to do video on top of it, you have to kind of plan quiet time in the house because, you know, with so many people working on top of each other, and if you're trying to get audio, you know, you have to plan for that.
[00:58:28] Speaker B: That's the hardest part of my job. I'm like, when am I going to get Marie and when am I going to get everybody else to be quiet?
What has been the hardest thing to delegate when it comes to content and the content and photography process as the principal, as the creative director? And how did you work through that difficulty of delegating?
[00:58:49] Speaker A: I mean, delegating is tough. And I would say just throughout my entire career, over every department, sometimes it comes out of necessity, like you run out of minutes to do something.
And I'm always trying to go back to okay, both for my role and everybody I hire. What is the most valuable use of your time? And if I can specialize people into spending as much possible time on that highest value use of time, I will. And so, you know, the hardest part about delegating is finding the right people, period.
And, you know, one of my favorite books, Jim Collins, Good to Great, you know, he talks all about finding people who don't have to be managed.
And, you know, I would say find people who know how to multiply efforts at your company. And then it's easy, you know, like when they can turn, you know, any, any lemon into lemonade. And there's always a training process where you train somebody.
This is what we do, this is how to do it. And then you start to train them. Here's the feel of it, here's the why, here's the culture behind it.
But once they have that, you know, with a reasonable amount of time, and sometimes that's six months to a year of really kind of getting somebody saturated into your company.
You know, they let them run with it. You know, people, when they feel ownership of something that they are doing, they will take it so much further than if you are sitting there delegating their every move. That is how you paralyze people and how you kind of freeze them into.
I can't make a decision because Marie has to be the one to decide.
And so I would say that's always been a part of how I run this company is find people who you trust to make good decisions. And so I'm really lucky that after so many years I have a team around me who does so much of this planning, who, you know is at the photo shoots at this point, I'm able to kind of come in for a day, do what I need to do, give my critique and guidance on, oh, hey, don't forget about this incredible millwork detail that we put in. And then I'm able to go and they're able to kind of run with it. And they have that creative ownership and that creative autonomy that they're being fulfilled in what they're doing. And, you know, it's just such a vital part about creating a team that, you know, can get a lot of beautiful work done.
I.
[01:01:21] Speaker B: Anytime I talk about you, I talk about you all the time. Like, you are just honestly, like, have always been, like, the biggest mentor to me, and I feel like you do it so effortlessly. But watching your team on set, like, I've never met another team that hustles and is willing to literally be sweeping up the pine needles, like, no problem. Like, I have literally watched you underneath islands, like, holding stuff up for a shot and doing all of these things.
But I do think it's important for a designer to think about the.
If they can set up a team that they can come on set and realize that they are the talent. They need to get their headshots in. They need to get in front of the camera for video and let your team really handle all of those other things. The smoothest days I've ever experienced on set are when those parameters have been set up and other people are handling things so that the designer is not like, oh, my hair's all sweaty and now I have to get on camera. And then you get flustered and you. You end up saying, let's not even worry about it. I'm not even going to do on camera stuff. As you said, being the face of the business is so, so, so important. And I've seen a lot of people kind of crack under pressure because they put too much of shoot day on their own shoulders. And you need to remember that I do need quiet time to be able to be on camera. I need to have been able to fix my hair and change my outfit or whatever it is. And I think that your team does such a good job of, like, allowing
[01:02:44] Speaker A: you to do that.
[01:02:44] Speaker B: Okay. I have to rapid fire some stuff because I know we're running out of time, but we have to talk about the scary concept of licensing rights and just like, the business of photography.
[01:02:57] Speaker A: Yep.
[01:02:58] Speaker B: When you are commissioning photography, when you are hiring Julie, and I don't want you to necessarily have to speak exclusively To Julie. I know you guys probably have like a specific proprietary agreement, but what does the actual agreement look like? What rights are you acquiring and what are, what do you expect from a photographer to be able to give you when it comes to rights?
[01:03:20] Speaker A: That is an incredible question. And I would say every. You really have to talk to your specific photographer because I have worked with several and they all do it very differently. Julie Soffer is incredibly generous in the way that she does it, because when I shoot with her, she still owns the right to the photos, but she lets me use those photos.
Obviously I pay for the photo shoot. She, I then have the right to use it in any way to promote my business, whether it's my portfolio or a book or a product.
Now, the minute any of the other companies, let's say the builder, the architect, if you, they want to use those photos, they then have to go to Photo Julie and buy them.
And you know, back in the day when if anything was seen online, we couldn't share it, that we always had to kind of put it all under lock and key with Julie. Like, do not share this with anybody.
But nowadays we love it when people want to buy photos because it helps, you know, it helps us with, you know, with the costs of our shoot.
And, and that goes not just the team on the job, but let's say Visual Comfort wants to use one of her shots for the COVID of their next brochure. Well, then they have to acquire the rights for that with Julie themselves because Julie retains the rights and everybody has separate agreements with that.
[01:04:48] Speaker B: Does that extend even from Visual Comfort, for example, wanting to use it on social? Or does Social have a little bit of a loose, looser, like a looser grace with it? I, I just feel it's such a pain point. I hear from designers and I absolutely understand the photographer side of it, but it is sticky. It's sticky.
[01:05:10] Speaker A: It is sticky. And social is the wild, wild west.
But I, I, I. Social is much more relaxed. And I know Julie cares less about whether it's shared on social media, but I think what people really care about on social is just making sure they're given credit for their work. And so if it's being shared on social, she has to be credited for that. And as we all know, that doesn't always happen. But, you know, a comment here or a DM there, it can get fixed.
[01:05:40] Speaker B: Yeah. When a project gets featured in a publication like eighty or House Beautiful, how does that affect the rights? Does a designer need, what does a designer need to understand about publication? Rights before they shoot in that aspect. So you said Julie lets you use it however you want to market your own business. Does that. Does a. Does a publication also need to buy the images from her or now that you've purchased those, it's your feature.
The magazine can now use them.
[01:06:09] Speaker A: Not always.
Julie doesn't require that. They pay basically twice if it's in promotion to our work, but sometimes they will pay her for the rights to use them in the magazine, especially in larger print magazines. So basically what happens is they ask who took these photos? And then the magazines typically have their own system, their copyright and approval systems, where they reach out directly to Julie and they work out their own agreement and they'll either ask her, do we have permission to use this?
Or do we need to buy these photos? And sometimes they do buy them. Sometimes she gives them, depending on what the situation is, but always she is credited as the photographer.
[01:06:55] Speaker B: Okay, let's talk about how licensing rights go when it comes to having a book and you've got a project that you will end up sharing on social. But it's going in the book is.
I know Julie shot both of your books. Correct. And.
And is that a different licensing photo shoot agreement that you have with her because it's getting physically published or does that stay the same? I imagine this varies upon photographer, but how does that look?
[01:07:26] Speaker A: It does vary upon photographer. And I have to say it's important to know if you're doing a book because most photographers do charge you a, you know, a secondary fee to be able to publish it as a book. And so books get very expensive. I mean, I think it's well known knowledge that you're not doing a book to make money necessarily.
And as far as Julie goes with the books, I'm able to use my photos for all aspects of marketing. I don't know if she's changed that over the years since we've worked together for over a decade, but I.
That was a huge benefit to me in being able to do books and it, you know, because no matter what, it costs so much and takes so much time to be able to produce that much content.
And it's nice to not have to pay for it twice.
But I would say that is not usually the case.
[01:08:17] Speaker B: Can we quickly talk about asset management? You've talked about how you guys are really working to develop this evergreen content bank from both a video and static image side of things.
How does your team organize, distribute and make images and footage access across platforms for your team? Like what is. Where does all of this live, because it sounds like it's a lot of content at this point.
[01:08:44] Speaker A: Well, we have.
We basically, for photography, we have a photo library per project and per shoot. Some houses. We've done many photo shoots. Whether it's the main photo shoot, Christmas holiday, sometimes we go back to a house several times, or like, we want to shoot a product launch. So we'll go back and ask them if we can add some of the products to their home.
So we've got a library that houses all of that. And then for video, we've basically got this library bank. It's also categorized by project. But then we're also working now on categorizing them by room, so that way we can find things more easily. And so we're kind of still developing exactly how all that is organized. But, you know, it's a. It's a monstrous amount of data that we're constantly trying to kind of recycle and reuse. And these assets are so important and they cost the firm so much money.
So we don't want them to get kind of buried away, never to be seen again.
[01:09:51] Speaker B: Will you coach us through those of us listening through the value in resharing content? I feel like so many designers are like, I'm so sick of this project. It's all we've shown because we haven't had anything else to show for the last eight months. You guys reuse content so, so, so well. So explain to us how not everybody sees the content the first time. If it's performing well, keep on posting it. Like, what is your mentality behind that?
[01:10:18] Speaker A: Our mentality is follow the numbers. You know, if. If something is going well, don't be afraid to recycle it. And you can recycle it exactly the way it is, or you can recycle it in a new creative way. Maybe change the intro slightly or have a different hook of some sort, but don't be afraid to reuse content.
If you look at your total amount of followers and how many people saw that one reel, that's how many people didn't see the post to begin with.
And although you're sick of it, and look, we feel this way all the time. I'm like, oh, my gosh, we need to get another photo shoot on the books because I can't look at this project anymore. But that's only you thinking that because you're so narrowly focused on what you're doing, no one else is. They're all narrowly focused on their own lives. And so don't be Afraid to kind of toot your own horn more than once because it's so important to kind of make sure to maximize the investment.
[01:11:17] Speaker B: For a designer who is investing in photography or videography for the first time at a substantial level, what is the single most important thing they should do before shoot day to make sure they're going to get the most out of it?
[01:11:32] Speaker A: Have pre planning meetings with everybody who's going to be there and make sure everybody is very clear on their role, very clear on the shot list.
And make sure to delegate different important aspects of the day to different people.
And that's from anywhere to the props, to the styling, to who's going to run to the grocery store, who's going to have lunch that day if somebody has to leave to go get it, or if everybody leaves the site to go get lunch, that can be two hours out of your day. Who's going to plan lunch, who's going to order it, who's going to help clean up the house at the end? I mean, that is the non glamorous part of what we do. But so important.
And so just to make sure that you've thought all that out, you've prepared time for everything. People feel cared for, people aren't overworked. You need to plan breaks in
[01:12:27] Speaker B: anyway.
[01:12:28] Speaker A: Just the pre planning ahead of time, thinking through the shoot is going to help it run smoothly and it's going to maximize your investment. Investment.
[01:12:35] Speaker B: Last question. That's totally off the books, but I think everyone is wondering, you've mentioned, you know, you guys have moved away from shooting immediately after install. It's not the same time.
How, how do you get your clients to say yes, come back in, take over our house?
How, how do you get that? Are you, are you paying for them to go stay in a hotel? Are you paying a fee to get back into the house? Are you offering it? And so often they just say no. Like, how are you getting people to say yes? Because I feel like that is a big holdup. A lot of our clients experience yes,
[01:13:10] Speaker A: and I agree that is a holdup. And it's a hard thing sometimes. It's. We do it all across the board. We, we have paired it with the install in the past so that we're not underfoot. And by the time we're done with the photo shoot, we're handing them the keys.
That's kind of a perfect world. That doesn't happen very much. But nowadays, since we're not doing that, we are asking, are you guys taking a family vacation when you wouldn't mind us coming.
We would love to put you in a hotel. We are often offering, you know, kind of a staycation if their kids are in school or something like that.
We almost always give them a gift or a thank you and I'm taking the photos and binding them into like a leather or like a linen book for them. And it that's the kind of, even a couple months later gift of thank you again for letting us do this. Most clients understand like this is they know how much love and work you put into the house and this is how you get more work. And so most clients understand that, but not all. I mean, we just finished one of our most beautiful projects of all time with, you know, one of my favorite architects in town, Curtis and Windham. And it's just the most beautiful home and the clients are just very private and they are like, not only do we not want you to come in and take photos, we don't even want anyone having their iPhones out during the install.
And so we have to respect that request because ultimately this is their home and that's a long term client of mine who I've done, you know, three or four homes for in the past. And although it is so sad not to be able to share that project with the world, you know, sometimes people want these homes as their private, you know, escape and you know, with the, with the world today, everybody sharing everything, sometimes it's nice to kind of keep details to yourself. Not great for business. But you know, I understand the beauty of it.
[01:15:04] Speaker B: Have you guys ever considered, I know there's talk in the industry that there's a clause in your contract that if you're opting out of having your space photographed, there is a fee for it. That's a loss of marketing fee. Have you guys ever explored that? Also you mentioned that you only take on jobs that you know you're going to be able to shoot. So are these like support surprise decisions at the end of a project that you're like, oh, we don't get to go in and shoot it after all.
[01:15:28] Speaker A: Well, our contract says we're going to shoot it. Now if somebody says to us you're not going to shoot it, like if it's a well known, like we're working with somebody well known in town right now. And they said, okay, but you're not going to shoot these rooms because these are our private rooms, rooms, no problem, you know, and if, if a client says yes, we want you to do the work, but we're not going to shoot it. And you're kind of on the fence about even taking the job, then that might be a reason not to take it.
So the client who, you know, doesn't want us to shoot their house, part of that is because somebody on a past project forcefully said, I'm shooting your house no matter what. My contract says that.
And that was like the biggest turnoff. And that from now on has rocketed them into. No one's ever shooting our house ever.
So don't ever take that stance with your clients. Like, in the end, these are their homes. And we all love marketing. We all love photography or whatever. That's not kind of why we're here. You know, it's a great byproduct, and I love doing it. I love showcasing our work. But in the end, you have to respect the. The client.
[01:16:41] Speaker B: And at the end of the day, we're in the service industry. We are serving those clients.
[01:16:45] Speaker A: That's right.
[01:16:46] Speaker B: Okay, last question, and I'll let you go, I promise. What is coming up next for Marie Flanigan Interiors that you are excited and legally allowed to share with us?
[01:16:57] Speaker A: Well, we have some very exciting projects in the works. I'm excited. We're. We're working in Telluride and Salt Lake City and in California, so we have some exciting installs coming up next year. I just launched a really big new collection with Visual Comfort, and those products are almost available online now, so love my partnership with them so much and kind of what isn't known yet, but coming in the next few weeks is we are launching our kind of Next Generation with Annie Selke. And so we have big photo shoots and video shoots prepared to kind of showcase all of those new products coming up. So very excited for the fall.
[01:17:37] Speaker B: Are you working on another book? Am I imagining this? Is this something that you have going on?
[01:17:43] Speaker A: No.
[01:17:44] Speaker B: Okay.
No.
[01:17:45] Speaker A: But, you know, we're always working on another book if. Because when we shoot jobs, we are trying to take photography of the level of another book. And so, yes, in probably three years, I will have, you know, the focus and the energy again to kind of focus my energy there. But right now, I am not currently working on a book.
[01:18:09] Speaker B: Well, Marie, this was amazing.
Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your kind words. And I, as you saw, I know you were following along on your end. I had, I think, 13 or 14 questions I didn't even get to. So I'll be calling you to have you back again very soon.
[01:18:23] Speaker A: Well, thanks so much for having me. Love being here.
[01:18:27] Speaker B: For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more. Don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] the Interior Collective thank you so so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations.
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Until next time. I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living.
