[00:00:16] Speaker A: Hey and welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey. And today two of my favorite people are back. Jean Stouffer joined us in season five to talk about building a family legacy in design. And it was such a, such an impactful conversation. If you have not listened to it, go back and start there. But today we are picking up where we left off and going somewhere entirely new. Jean and Grace also keynoted Design Camp last fall. And if you were in the room that day, you already know what an extraordinary conversation it was. It is such a privilege to have them back. Here is what I've been thinking about since we last spoke. The Madison, the 10,000 square foot Greek revival home that started as a flip and ended with Jean and her husband moving in, is widely credited as the moment that put Jean Stouffer design on the international map. The photos went absolutely viral on Instagram. Magnolia Network came calling and everything changed. Jean is now doing it again with the Reeds lake house, a major renovation being documented on YouTube as a monthly series. And Grace has built her own deeply engaged following by sharing the story of the log cabin, her family home that started as a vacation rental across the established home, Instagram and YouTube. And as you'll hear in the show, they've got another project in the works. What is fascinating to me is that neither of them is doing this casually. There is a real multi channel strategy behind how these personal projects are shared and today we are digging into this concept because personal projects may be the most underutilized marketing tool available to designers at every stage.
If you are still the one holding your projects together, there is a better way. Materio is the project delivery system built specifically for interior designers. One connected workflow. From concept to handoff to billing, interior Collective listeners get 50% off their first
[email protected] hello Grace and Jean. Welcome to the show. Jean. This is a welcome back, Grace. We had both of you at Design Camp too. So it's so exciting to get to catch up and fill in some of the blanks that I've been dreaming up and scheming since I had a last conversation with you both.
[00:02:18] Speaker B: Thanks so much for having us, Anastasia. It's fun to be here.
[00:02:22] Speaker C: Yeah, so fun to be here. And we are so honored that you had us on your show
[00:02:27] Speaker A: literally anytime, every day, anytime.
I will gladly interview you guys anytime. But let's go ahead and dive right into it because I have such like a personal connection with today's topic. I just think it's so fascinating how you all have been able to showcase and, and leverage maybe isn't quite the right word, but. But highlight your own personal projects and build a lot of your brand story and ethos around that. So let's start at the beginning just to catch anybody up who hasn't heard our other conversations. Jean and Grace, for anyone who missed design camp or didn't hear Jean's previous interview, can you give us a quick snapshot of where Jean Stouffer Design is today? How large is the team? What are your roles within the firm and are there any big new arms of the overall brand that we might not be thinking of right away?
[00:03:28] Speaker B: Yes, well, the, the team, you know, is way beyond just a design team.
So it includes our Stouffer Home retail brand, Stouffer Home Cabinetry, kitchen design and cabinetry division, as well as our full custom.
And our most recent arm that we have added is Stauffer Build.
So for we have just started taking on some of our own build projects that are projects that we're doing all the design work for too. So it's kind of a whole in house thing. And we, I think we are up to 55 team members, but that, you know, when you have a retail business and we have a coffee shop, there is a fair amount of part time, you know, people involved. So that may might not be as impressive as it sounds.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: And of the 55, how many of those people are direct family members, spouses included?
[00:04:30] Speaker B: Spouses included. We have six now, so me, three children, two spouses.
[00:04:37] Speaker A: Amazing. Well, that's exciting that you all have added builds to it. I'm going to have some follow up questions about that as well.
But one thing that I find so fascinating is when I look at the firms that I most admire, like yourselves, it definitely feels like a key to scaling has been adding those other arms. Whether that's product or retail or like you just have added the build side of things. Do you feel that to be true that there was going to be a capacity you would hit when it came to just design? Obviously cabinetry you've been doing for a long time, but has that been a real key to being able to grow at the scale that you all have?
[00:05:23] Speaker B: Definitely, yeah. Yeah.
What we've discovered is that all of these different arms seem to be very important for each other.
And so I think the mixture of businesses or, you know, divisions is what's lifting the whole thing.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: Talk to me about how, you know, it seems like obviously cabinetry, it's like, well, we're already doing the designs. I feel like we can execute this really well now. Build, same thing. We're already doing the design, so we want to go ahead and execute that.
There's so much to be said about having relationships with craftspeople and tradespeople and artisans to get to where you want to go and to be able to execute that product to the caliber that you want. Jean and Grace, what has made you decide that? You know, I think we're ready to take this on, and we don't necessarily need to outsource it.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: Grace, why don't you go ahead with this? Because of. I mean, Ted.
[00:06:21] Speaker C: Yeah, Ted is my husband. He is working for the build side. But I think that, to be honest, the things have been added to our business kind of as a what if kind of idea.
And it's nice to have people to talk to that are on your team that have a shared vision. And it's not even a vision that we're like, oh, this is exactly how we want it to be in 10 years. It's more like, hey, how would this look if we ended up actually being the contractors on this job? Who would be needed? What would we. And we're honestly quite in the middle of our first one. We haven't even fully completed one yet. And so it's very fresh.
Maybe shouldn't even be advertised. Depending on how this goes, we'll see.
And I think it's just that one next step.
Um, so, for instance, we started build because my mom bought her house on the lake and needed a contractor. My little brother is in the process of building his own house and is kind of generaling that.
And then my parents bought a house to flip, and then. Right, you bought it. You bought it to flip and then decided not to flip it. And then the person who bought it was like, well, you will you still flip it for us? And we said, sure.
So that. And therein is born. Stouffer built.
[00:07:53] Speaker B: And it was, in all fairness, it was an idea that we'd really been, like you said, Grace earlier, what if ing for a while. What would that look like? Who would we need to be involved?
What would a structure look like legally, liability wise, all these different things.
And we had thought through a lot of that when this opportunity came up. So we were able to kind of get started quickly with that client, customer.
And it's been a learning curve, I would say.
But I also compare this experience that we're having doing this with other experiences we have with other contractors.
And I would say, generally speaking, it's going.
I'm pleased with how it's going.
It's hard. Remodeling old houses is hard and complex. So it's not like it's. Oh, it's been great.
It has been hard. But it's also gone well.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. Well, that's so exciting. I can't wait to hear more about build and just to recap and let's go ahead and just focus on the design firm specifically.
Can you guys remind us how you are handling billing? That is our every single time question. Everybody always wants to know are you hourly, flat rate? Is it a combination?
What have you tried? What is working today?
[00:09:24] Speaker B: Well, we were flat rate all the way across the board for several years.
In the last about year we've turned to a combination of flat rate for the house structure itself and then hourly for any furnishings and decor and things that get moved in after the build is done. And we, what we do is we make it where people buy five hour blocks of time.
And because we have discovered that a lot of our clients really enjoy that process and want to do some of the stuff themselves and they get to determine how much of us they want at that stage and it really works out well.
[00:10:11] Speaker A: That is fascinating. I've never heard anybody managing it that way.
And I think that that shows how flexible you all are in your collaboration with your clients.
Especially because you are doing so many remodels for someone who is more so doing new builds. And now you guys are doing new builds in construction. Do you see that that model could work in that aspect as well or does it more work when someone is remodeling? Because they do imagine that they'll take on some of the decision making workload, et cetera.
[00:10:49] Speaker C: I think it works in both cases.
What our struggle was with flat fee is that we would get to the furniture and accessories piece and sometimes our client would be like all in want to buy everything. But a lot of times they'll be sending us a sofa online or sending, you know, just, just kind of the whole game of furniture is very different than it used to be. I mean there's so much accessible online and, and so many great options really. I mean stuff that we, we can't spec as a designer and make the same markup.
So having it be hourly gives us the flexibility to pull from any resources or have any resource they send us and still be profitable.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: Do you think that because you have your own collaborations and they're to the trade? Well, I guess a lot of your items are available retail as well. Do you think that that also makes sense for you. All because of that. You know, you aren't necessarily sourcing only exclus exclusively to the trade because you can offer them products that you've designed and love. From a retail perspective, or if someone is sourcing something from Stouffer Home, whether it's a club, one of your collections or not, is that something that you would always be purchasing for them?
[00:12:10] Speaker C: If it's on our website, I think yeah, it's. It's hard because it depends on what it is. If it's furniture from our website, we'll probably send them a separate QuickBooks invoice for that because it's differently put in if you buy it off of stove for home. But for something like a lamp, you might as well buy it off of Stouffer Home, because it's the same thing. So it actually adds a little bit of a layer of complexity. But in our business, the same person doing procurement for Jean Stouffer Design is doing procurement for Stouffer Home. So I'm so thankful for her because she's got it all straight in her head.
Who's ordering what from where?
[00:12:51] Speaker B: Do you know, Anastasia? I think one of the reasons we went to this model is because we felt we were struggling because we would get to this place in the project where the house was absolutely beautiful, and now it was time to do all the furnishings.
And for whatever reasons it was a.
There were some projects in enough where it made a difference for us that it was a real challenge to
[00:13:25] Speaker C: finish
[00:13:25] Speaker B: people. To finish
[00:13:27] Speaker C: them. Yeah.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: Yeah, to
[00:13:29] Speaker B: finish them.
[00:13:30] Speaker A: Money's tighter at that point.
To
[00:13:32] Speaker B: get
[00:13:32] Speaker A: it over the finish line. Yeah, totally.
[00:13:34] Speaker B: Yeah. And we wanted to give our clients the flexibility that sometimes they have a relief over and they don't feel constricted by or, you know, just.
It has helped kind of from a whole point of just relationship standpoint, actually.
[00:13:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I can feel that that would feel, you know, after you've gotten through construction and like you said, problems came up because it was historic and budgets changed and a lot has to go to the build, and then suddenly that's cutting into your furniture budget. And so many designers say, you know, I've gotten to the point in projects where they don't even want to furnish it anymore. They're like, there's nothing left. And then they can't photograph that project. The client isn't loving their home the way that they had envisioned. So I think that this is a very ingenious option for people to explore or some version of that. But from a client perspective, it feels super supported. It feels super collaborative and it feels like I'm being heard and understood in this situation.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: Yeah, it has definitely made a difference in the whole relationship with the client in a positive way. There's not the stress over it.
[00:14:48] Speaker A: How do you all handle? So let's say that you get to that phase and someone is buying packages of hours to help you for you to source and you know, it's not, it doesn't end up being exactly how you would have furnished it. How are you handling that from like a content photography perspective? When a project was a beautiful build, you absolutely love all the hard finishes but then you know, you don't quite get it at 100%, at least in a timeline that you would have liked to be able to photograph it. Has that shifted your content plan?
[00:15:23] Speaker C: We just have to think ahead more and like order stools ourselves that we then have in our warehouse and we bring or just
[00:15:32] Speaker B: for example.
[00:15:33] Speaker C: Yeah, like I took scouting photos this morning of a house we just finished. It's beautiful house, it's exact, it's textbook what we're describing. They wanted every finish. When it came to furniture, they were like, we're good, we, we don't need, we, we have stuff to move in there, it's fine.
And so I took scouting photographs today and I'm like, I don't know if we'll shoot the living room or maybe a close up on the built in, in the living room for sure we'll do the kitchen but we'll bring in rugs and all the styling and then bathrooms, mudroom area. So basically places that are cabinetry and finish heavy which is the areas that they paid for with their design fee.
[00:16:14] Speaker A: Okay, that makes total sense.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: It's really, it's a great model for us, Anastasia, because our specialty is those rooms, kitchen, bath, mud rooms, laundry rooms that furnishings aren't really that key in.
And so we, most of the rooms that we are known for, for really helping people with and why people come to us are great to photograph in regardless. So that might be a little different, you know, from others.
[00:16:46] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. But I think it's a great reminder to people that you don't have to, you don't have to shoot the whole entire project. So you can pick and choose what's going to help propel you to that next great project and to bring in the pieces that you need to. Obviously not everybody has a retail store to, to pull from or amazing homes that you could borrow from amongst the, amongst the team. But I definitely think that people sometimes feel like, it's not worth the investment of photography unless they're shooting everything. And I just don't think that that's necessarily the case.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Yeah,
[00:17:20] Speaker C: I would definitely agree with that. And back in the day, we were doing the same thing, really, and being really scrappy about it. So I think my mom's stools are in, like, three of our kitchens.
Pictures from back in the day, you know, and that same lamp will show up many times. And so you can get scrappy with your own stuff or finding stuff that's vintage to fill in. So I don't think it necessarily takes having a retail store to. To get scrappy for a photo shoot.
[00:17:47] Speaker A: Okay, let's talk about the many channels of the Stouffer brand. The design studio, Stouffer Home, Stouffer Home, Cabinetry, of course, you have had the Magnolia Network show, YouTube, brick and mortar, various collaboration collections, and the Bradbury Cafe. How do they keep working together so well? How do you keep everything still feeling so you.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: Well, I honestly think it's such a massive team effort and we have so many such amazing people in all these supporting operations roles that make sure everything is running smoothly and all the bills are paid on time and every.
Everybody's getting what they need when they need it and so forth that it allows. Grace and I, the space are supporting us in that is making a huge difference, I would say. When you. Grace.
[00:18:47] Speaker C: Totally. Yeah.
And. And thank you for saying that. It all works together really well because sometimes we, you know, from the inside, you. You see, you know what it takes and how. How there. There are missteps along the way. And, you know, you try your best, but something comes out a little different than you thought.
So to hear that it's going really well from the outside is great encouragement to keep going.
[00:19:12] Speaker B: That's true,
[00:19:13] Speaker A: definitely. I think us on the outside, we see the forest and you guys are in there focused on each individual tree, but we are seeing the forest as the whole. So let's talk about how the brand has grown significantly since we last chatted from those personal projects perspective. Jean, you've had some big life changes, some big shifts with your homes, and I would love to really start digging into how does someone navigate incorporating those big. Those big personal projects, those passion projects, and helping them tell that brand story. So let's go back to the Madison. I feel like from an outside perspective, that was really the big one, that was super public of like, we're following along with this. For anyone who doesn't know it, give us the story. What was it Supposed to be.
What. And what did it become?
[00:20:09] Speaker B: Well, it was supposed to be a flip, and
[00:20:15] Speaker A: they always
[00:20:18] Speaker C: are.
[00:20:20] Speaker B: And it was. It was, you know, an enticing, exciting thing because it was a 1902 home that hadn't been touched in decades. 10,000 square feet with great property around it. And I was just salivating with all of the architectural details and opportunities and.
And, you know, three years and three times what we estimated. I. I bought it together with a contractor.
We realized, well, during the three years of following it, our business really enlarged quite a bit, which meant our resources changed.
And by the end of the time where it was done, so many people were invested in it that were following us.
That. And it then was financially possible to actually buy my partner out and then move there. And we've been here now almost six years in the Madison, which is what we call it. And it has been an incredible catalyst. Catalyst for the business because there's. There are so many things that we learned here, so many design things that we're able to use it for. For photo shoots for a new product. And like all of our collaborations, all of the product has been shot here in this setting.
And, you know, just. It's. It's been. It's real too, because there's. It's been.
It was difficult.
There were challenges that I still talk about and still have, and.
And we've also opened it up for a lot of people to see. Over the years, thousands and thousands of people have come through and been able to experience the architecture and the design and everything firsthand.
And that's been really fabulous and has honestly been something that I think the design community and individuals have really been encouraged and inspired by, and it's been really cool to be part of.
[00:22:42] Speaker A: Update me on what the plan is. Will the Madison still say the Madison or. I thought you were moving to the lake.
[00:22:50] Speaker B: Well, we are. So we bought a house three miles away from where we are right now. There's a beautiful inland lake, and Dale and I bought a house on the lake, something we're thrilled with. It's also a massive project that we've started following on our YouTube channel.
And it's. It's going to take a long time, probably at least a year.
Our son Dan is doing the build, as Grace mentioned.
And. Okay, so even things have changed in a year.
It's. The house may might sell, but we also. We've had a couple of people come with ideas, business ideas for the house that are very worth contemplating.
So since we would like to live here until we can move right into the lake house. We have some time to think through those things.
But there's always been a love of hospitality in our family and so tbd.
[00:23:55] Speaker A: Exciting. Well, the Madison also following that story really resonated with your audience so much and led to the Magnolia Network. That's where I feel like so much of that speared from. How much of that was intentional? How much of that was timing? How much of that was just God aligning things? Because it feels like everything was taking off with the business. And then also Magnolia, I'd love to talk about how that has shifted the trajectory.
[00:24:25] Speaker B: Well, I really feel down deep that the only explanation is that God planned this.
And we live by this verse that says man chooses or plans his way, but the Lord chooses his steps.
Something like that. It's Proverbs 16, 9.
Anyway, we just, we feel completely like the Lord has carved a path for us that we, we both spend like most of the family members spent quite a bit of time personally reading scripture, praying and also just fellowshipping with other Christians and had a lot of people gather around us in a supporting role in this way that also feel the same way and have advised us. And we just feel like the Lord will faithfully show us what the next step is because he has proven himself faithful to do it and equipped us at each step of the way.
There's a piece in that Anastasia that I can tell you because I've done it other ways is remarkable because there's not the striving to get something.
It's more of a always a state of being prepared and then walking the next step.
And there's peace in that.
And there's a certain confidence because you know you're not on the hook for all that is not on our shoulders.
It's the burden is on the Lord and we are so thankful for it. And it also makes us want so much to be so close to him, to know that we're walking hip to hip with him, shoulder to shoulder.
[00:26:27] Speaker A: If you've been running your firm for a few years now, you've probably got a system in place. And I do use that term loosely. It's going to be a mix of apps, some spreadsheets, maybe a project management tool that was closed but never quite right. And you are still the one holding it all together.
But here's the thing. Most tools were not built for the way interior designers actually deliver projects. Materio was concept to handoff approvals to procurement to billing with QuickBooks sync built right in one connected workflow Interior Collective listeners get 50% off their first month at getmaterio.com free for 14 days, no credit card required. That's M A T E r I o get material.com when you look back on the journey that you've been through thus far with the Madison, can you talk to us about the timeline of. Was the plans for the Madison going in with a builder, a contractor on that and where Magnolia fell into that? Was Magnolia already involved before you had your sight set on the Madison, or did it happen in reverse?
[00:27:38] Speaker B: Magnolia found us in the middle of us doing the Madison project.
[00:27:44] Speaker A: Got it.
[00:27:45] Speaker B: In fact, yeah. In fact, we did a pilot with them that was a different show, not our own show that was. A lot of designers have been part of actually subsequently. It was called Point of View, a designer's Profile, and it takes a different designer every episode and does a project with them. And so the first thing that we ever did with Magnolia was the pilot for that show and it was the kitchen. It focused on the kitchen at the Madison.
[00:28:17] Speaker A: I know and have seen and followed along. Just loved how you've opened the Madison up to the community, both your local community, but also to the design community from all over. If I hadn't got Covid, I would have been up there with my friend Tiffany when you guys had. I
[00:28:33] Speaker B: remember that
[00:28:35] Speaker A: when you had the unveiling of your, I believe it was your kitchen Islands collection and everything was displayed throughout the house and it was really acting as a living showroom. And I know you've opened it up for holiday housewalk, etc.
Tell me about the power of letting people experience your work in person versus just seeing it online. How much of an impact has that actually played on. On further developing the brand?
[00:29:06] Speaker B: Well, it's substantial and I think the combination of, you know, just feeling a space, being 3D in it, and then also we get. We get the chance to meet most of these people personally. Grace and I do.
And establishing that personal connection has been a really beautiful thing for us.
And it's been, I don't know, like we. We have made acquaintances in the design community that I feel has. Have been. Have enriched us so much as people and have also given us ideas for new things to do.
And it's just been a great experience, that personal meeting, meeting people in person.
I've loved it.
[00:29:57] Speaker C: It's quite. It's quite energizing. Not, not just for us and the buzz around it, but also for our staff to see physically that, you know, the people who come and enjoy and really who we're doing all this for is for people to, to have something beautiful to look at. And our, our biggest desire, I think as a brand moving forward is to be a partner in the design community, whether it's for cabinetry or otherwise. I know that is a huge focus for your brand is just an aid to the design community. And so opening up things and, you know, answering people's questions and being there for the design community is all part of that.
[00:30:40] Speaker B: Yeah. And then the other part is providing resources for them.
I know one thing that we just recognized years ago is that there's not a good source for beautiful, customizable vanities for our industry.
And it's just like, what in the world?
And so we decided that our industry needs this resource. And so we've spent the last few years putting that resource together.
And that is one area that is just thrilling us, that is getting out there to designers.
And we have a trade program for it. So it's. And it's
[email protected] and we, you know, we've heard from so many designers that that's made such a difference for them in their projects and as they source things.
And so that's a thrill.
[00:31:35] Speaker A: Ladies, I have literally heard on this show during our, I think we're up to like 130 episodes now. There's probably been two dozen people saying, we need someone who can do vanities for me. So for everyone who's listening, this is who's doing the vanities for you. Have these semi custom vanities made the custom dimensions in the most beautiful finishes possible, but it is this huge void that everybody's like, why is this not something that can exist? So thank you for solving that problem.
From a, from a business perspective, like a logistics and financial perspective, how much value does it bring to potential partnerships to be able to say, we'll be able to shoot it here, we're happy to host it here.
Having that, you know, when designers are really weighing this, they want to work on a project for themselves, they're ready for that. I want to be able to speak a little bit to.
You will see returns in maybe not always black and white capacities, but in ways that will help propel your brand forward.
[00:32:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I think having a well known background for brands to shoot that they know is extremely consistent with the brand is huge. And you know, Dale and I are in a stage of life where we have this big house, all these opportunities to shoot things, and we don't have children living with us any longer.
That's a Big deal. Because I know Grace has been kind enough to let us shoot some things at her house. But it's a heavy lift when you have a family to come in there and change the furniture and have the house clean and have kids have someplace else to go during that time. It's a very heavy lift. So I think a lot of this is workable because of our stage of life.
And I don't want to minimize how challenging it could be if you're not in our stage of life.
[00:33:42] Speaker A: I completely agree because we do rent out the tutor for commercial shoots and I mean, Cameron's still, you know, she's just a baby. She's just toddling around right now. But like when we've got soccer practice and all these different activities in the future, I don't know that we can just pack up for a week and go to grandma's. It's not going to be that easy. So that is a very honest and helpful reminder. Gene. I appreciate that when we are thinking about in those spaces.
[00:34:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I honestly feel Anastasia, like a lot of design, there's a lot of designers in our community that are also raising children because it's a job. It's very compatible with that. Especially if you have your own business.
You can manage your workflow, you can manage how many clients you take at a time.
You can pump the brakes when you need to if you're careful about managing how many clients you have.
But there's also a lot of pressure to do these other things and get bigger and have a collaboration or have a licensing deal. And that puts it into a different stratosphere that you don't have as much control over your schedule and it just has to be weighed carefully because as you're discovering with Cameron, like there's a stage of, there's a, there's a window of opportunity with those little ones that you don't want to miss is worth investing into.
And I just don't, I don't, I don't want to encourage women to do things that business wise that could cause, I don't know, some angst about being a mom too.
[00:35:30] Speaker A: And it's always, it's always easier to see that once you've already been through it. So we, we listening, appreciate that advice so much because we do see all the shiny, the shiny things ahead of us and we want to do it all. And it's not until you're, you know, potentially drowning or missing all those, you know, missing ballet class or whatever that might be that it's a lot. I Always say it's a lot harder to scale back than it is actually to scale. Honestly,
[00:35:57] Speaker B: you know, that's, that's probably very true. And you know, I think like, having relationships with kids, like deep ones at every stage of life takes time.
And I honestly, like all of our children pursued other careers before working with the business.
And the fact that we were all in relationship at all times.
And then we became aware of what others, each of the children's contributions that they could make to the business might be.
We were already in really good stead, relationship wise to be able to make that happen.
[00:36:39] Speaker A: Yeah. And I know in our previous conversations we've really talked about how to make that work. So I'll make sure that our last conversation is linked so you can catch up about working with your family and how you've so beautifully been able to let your children shine in their own unique ways while enhancing everything overall.
What do you, what do you feel like the Madison has taught you about the power of sharing personal projects that a client project just can't replicate?
[00:37:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Grace and I had a great conversation about this, preparing for this cover, this talk. And there's things that you could do with your own home that are maybe a little experimental or have to be seized maybe quickly when the opportunity exists during construction, that if you were, that if you're with a client, there's so many channels you have to go through to get approval for something that by the time maybe you've gotten it, the window of opportunity has closed and.
Or it's your house, it's your schedule. If you need more time to think through something and you want to do something different and figure it out, then you can make that choice to do it. And so I think personal projects are like labs.
And we've used them, whether it's Grace's projects or my projects, we've used them for our designers as labs. Like, this idea works and this is how it works. So let's do it.
You know, and obviously it's, it's a little different here, a little different there, but this big concept works, so let's apply it.
[00:38:30] Speaker C: And I think the, the other thing is, is that we have grown to learn that people love process. They love to get in, in your head and why did you make that decision? And a lot of times it can feel like boring if you're, if it's your day to day work, you're like, oh, this is just boring. But people love to know, and they love to know why. So it's the power of you Sharing the Madison, from framing to millwork to. And every step of the way as things got installed was, was very powerful. And I also feel like it honestly is a great way to still be a mom and invested in Cher, your own house because it's like you're already, you're already going to decorate it and you're already going to go through it.
Probably if you're into design, you're going to be doing either little projects or big ones. And so to share it with your audience to me feels like a no brainer. And people then really get attached not only to the spaces but also to like your whole ethos of design.
[00:39:34] Speaker B: The other thing, Anastasia, is that you don't have to worry about sharing anybody's information that they really, that you really shouldn't.
You know, you, you. We want to be so careful with all of our clients that we don't share anything that they would not be okay with. And so we don't. There's not. But with our own at least. Grace and I were like, we're an open book.
We're not going to hold.
We feel like we could share this information whether it's paint colors or whatever because, you know, we don't have a paying client that got that from us.
[00:40:11] Speaker A: That's so true. And that's a, that's a conversation I see happening online all the time with designers. Some designers are happy to share everything about projects, some designers are happy to share a select handful. And some designers say, you know, this is proprietary information that my clients paid for and I can't share that. So that is such a thoughtful addition to your feedback is just that like, you know, you are unlimited with what you can choose to share from that side of things. Grace, I really want to get into your personal brand. What that's been contributing to the overall Stouffer story before the log cabin, which we will get into, I'm obsessed. I love it so much. There was your previous family home, which you also shared on Instagram and was featured in the established home. Can you walk us through that project and what it taught you about sharing your personal space so publicly with a young growing family?
[00:41:11] Speaker C: Yeah, so we moved into that home, not the log cabin, but the, the previous one kind of right when everything was growing with the business. So it was, it was all at the same time.
We had just opened still for home.
We.
My husband wanted to quit his job.
It was, it was like a manufacturing job and getting, he was getting very bogged down with that. But we kind of used selling our first house as an opportunity to move into a fixer upper with our children and, and fix up the whole thing step by step. So we, we shared about that process, but similar to the Madison, but in a very budget friendly way. And, and people.
People love that. They love low high.
Show me how to do that. Interesting thing that is Ted was
[00:42:04] Speaker B: doing the whole project himself too. That was a fun piece of it.
[00:42:09] Speaker C: Yeah. Yep. Ted. Ted has learned how to do just about everything from plumbing to trim, carpentry and everything in between. So that is honestly the best thing ever is to have someone in house. Because I think that's the hardest thing is who can do that work. And if it's someone who lives in your house, it's really ends up being nice.
But I would say I. I don't personally feel like I have a personal brand. I feel like it's kind of a collaborative brand within the Stouffer umbrella.
So.
[00:42:46] Speaker A: Interesting because I feel like from.
I mean it's definitely in The Stouffer umbrella 100%, don't get me wrong. But I feel like in the last like three years in particular, I really feel like your personal brand within that umbrella has shown through. And I feel like maybe that's just because I've gotten to know you more personally and like I've gotten time with you in person, but I def. I definitely feel like Grace has her own. Her own thing going within it for sure.
[00:43:15] Speaker B: Well,
[00:43:16] Speaker C: that would
[00:43:16] Speaker B: make
[00:43:16] Speaker C: my mom very happy to
[00:43:17] Speaker B: hear
[00:43:17] Speaker C: that.
[00:43:20] Speaker A: I definitely do. And I'm sure it's a very conscious decision from your whole team as to, you know, how. How do we make sure that everyone's shining their own light.
Can we talk about the log cabin? It's such a great story. Take us back to the beginning of that project and what you thought it would be versus what it became.
[00:43:41] Speaker C: Yep. So we bought this log cabin from the 80s as a vacation rental. So we live in like a really cute lakeside community by Lake Michigan where a lot of people come to vacation.
And so we purchased it, fixed it up for a year, rented it out for a year, and they said that you can no longer operate short term rentals in Park Township.
So that got shut down.
And there was. There, I think still is a whole group of people fighting this short term rental ban. But we were kind of like we didn't have it in us to be fighters. We were just like, okay, we have to either have to sell this or sell our home in town. So my husband was all in for moving out to the country and so we packed up and moved out and have been now living here for three years.
And it's been wonderful. We. When we moved in, we kind of made it our own. We put in some stove for home vanities and some of our wonderful antique pieces and some beautiful furniture, and then did a lot of landscaping. We put in a pool and a sauna from Nightjar Sauna. My brother has a sauna building company, so I'll give him a plug too.
But it's been awesome. The kids are just free range, as free range as the chickens. And so we. We love it. But we recently also purchased another house that we are moving to.
So we are in the process of that too.
[00:45:24] Speaker A: And there's
[00:45:24] Speaker B: a big. There's like two major reasons for that.
[00:45:27] Speaker C: Yeah. So it. Yeah. It's also in the country. We love that. We don't want to change that. But it's closer to school and work. So that is kind of the only downside of where we are now is that it's far out.
And so this, this kind of gem of a property came up. The house needs a ton of work, which is great.
And so we have gotten started on that.
[00:45:51] Speaker A: Talk to me about your decision to so consistently share the process of your personal projects and not just the finished space. I feel like I view your brand as very much kind of like everything up until the finish point, and then it moves over. Then it moves over to the umbrella brand.
[00:46:12] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:14] Speaker A: What made you. I say commit. I feel like that's probably more of a heavy word than like, you would have interpreted it as, but, like, just like feel comfortable with that level of transparency and also comfortable with like actually making that content happen. Because it's one thing to be like, I'm fine to show all of that, but to actually recorded, actually documented, that feels like such a heavy lift to a lot of people.
[00:46:39] Speaker C: Yeah. You know what I think it is, is that I love watching the process and I like, frequently. Even our new house. I'll go over there all the time. I can't do anything. There's nothing that I can do there. I can't demo anything. I can't frame anything.
But I can take pictures and videos. So that's what I do is I do what I. What I know is possible.
And then I think the consistent feedback from people who are genuinely excited about the process, I think that feeds into it a lot because having people respond to you in a positive way kind of is that feedback loop that we all kind of answer to.
[00:47:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
Let's talk. Let's talk about content placement and strategy behind sharing these personal projects. Have you, do you guys have any sort of internal filters that you've set up to decide what channels are appropriate for shar sharing? What. Obviously there's, you know, specs and specific things. We know this performs better if it's, you know, punchier if. If Jean's dancing on the kitchen counter is always going to do better on TikTok. But. But as far as like, how much detail shared and like what feels too personal somewhere, is there any method to that or do you feel like you're pretty consistent with what's shared across any channel within the guidelines of what performs for that?
[00:48:04] Speaker B: Well, I think one thing that we, we do talk about quite a bit is because we're. We are going to follow Grace's project on YouTube. We're following mine on YouTube and there are certain things that we want to make sure are documented well for that. But what's different with that than with our TV show is that with any project that we were doing for the TV show all those years, we could never ever reveal anything along the way.
[00:48:36] Speaker C: It was totally an embargo.
[00:48:39] Speaker B: Right, right. And so we feel like people will still actually maybe watch the show more if they feel more invested and know more of the behind the scenes. There's a lot more that's going on than we could possibly put in these episodes.
So that's been really fun for us to kind of backfill with personal walkthroughs with our own iPhones. When something is interesting and not only have just the produced YouTube episodes of it. The other thing that I think is kind of important and I could tell you I've fallen into this trap of not doing it this way and I have to pull myself back out is the perfection piece of putting stuff up on social media.
A lot of times, you know, we're like this. Putting this reel together is so hard. Ah, you know, the music isn't fitting or this isn't that clip isn't the right or blah, blah, blah. And we've decided to kind of just go back to basics and do it as simply as possible and not worry about the production value. If it's just our own stuff that we're putting out there and do what is actually feasible instead of stuff that's maybe better production but might not ever make it because it takes too much.
[00:50:15] Speaker A: Do you feel like you have seen the same level of engagement response to that? Do you feel like actually the less pretty stuff is performing better from like a data standpoint? Have you seen any difference or is. I'm just assuming everyone is equally obsessed with you no matter how it's being presented?
[00:50:34] Speaker C: No, I mean, obviously some stuff hits and some stuff doesn't. That's like the name of the game.
But we hired on our staff of videography and person.
I. Not that long ago. Mom. How. How many months has Craig.
[00:50:50] Speaker B: It's just like, I. Four months ago, five months ago.
[00:50:53] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Recent. Yeah.
[00:50:55] Speaker C: Yeah. And he is amazing. And being just a part of our, like, company, family, it just makes it all easier. Instead of like, booking a shoe and having it be so, like, produced in that way, it's just like, hey, this is happening here and this is happening here. And he's coming up with the story because he's living it with us too. So it's. It's been an absolute game changer. And his.
His first couple videos we're just so happy with. I mean, he is doing a dynamite job.
[00:51:27] Speaker A: Well, that's so great.
We love a videographer. So talk to me about, like, on a more personal level. I don't know what's more personal than your own house, but obviously that's. That's a level of vulnerability that a client project just is never going to be there. That has a different level of vulnerability. You want it to be really beloved and, like, successful. Born into your own house, obviously. That's so personal.
How do you handle the level of exposure and feedback in that level of viewership that you now have in your personal spaces where your kids are running around and like, you, you were the one who painted that baseboard.
[00:52:13] Speaker B: Well, you know, I think a lot of this is that we both feel that our houses are not our identity.
They're places that we love and enjoy and love inviting people into and love being creative in, but they are not our identity.
So if someone hates something that we've done, I'm not gonna lie, it. It might sting a little bit, but it also is kind of like, well, whatever, you know, it's not who I am. It's my house, you know, so
[00:52:50] Speaker C: well. And for every. For everyone, like, crazy.
Crazy comment. People are so crazy. It's. It's honestly entertaining. But for every crazy comment, there are 10 people that are so nice. I mean, so, so nice.
[00:53:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:53:07] Speaker C: Yeah. And genuinely, the people that follow along are too. Like, they're too nice and like, you are too. That is. That is so nice.
We
[00:53:16] Speaker B: have amazing followers. Just kind people.
[00:53:20] Speaker C: Yeah,
[00:53:21] Speaker B: it's true.
[00:53:22] Speaker A: Well, I think you certainly attract what you're putting out there, so that doesn't surprise me at all.
Another aspect to this conversation I want to make sure we touch on before we have to end the show is, you know, the very real financial investment of no client budget behind these personal projects. It's. It is your money.
How do you think about the cost of a personal project against what it has produced for the business? Because I. We touched on it a little bit at the top of the show, Gene, of like, you know, with the Madison, you went in with a partner and then the business had grown, so you were able to take that over, buy them out. But I do think you have to look at it, and it's not always such a black and white, like, line item that you can look at on a spreadsheet and be like, well, this did bring us this much.
Is there a way that you guys have figured out to measure?
Is this worth investing in both from, like, a personal aspect, but also from a business aspect? Like, can we make this work from a business aspect that will also benefit us as a family, that'll also benefit our personal life?
[00:54:29] Speaker B: Yeah, that is a huge question all the time.
Because we're very financially conservative.
We are pretty much a cash business.
It makes us sleep better at night, and we just feel like those are principles we want to live by. And I have enough examples of personal projects not being necessarily good financially from a real estate perspective.
You know, this Woodward project that we did, we called it the Slow Flip, is an example of a project that I loved. I loved the design in it. I love the architecture. We follow the process. It was two episodes on our show, yet it was not a great fight real estate deal.
But it was extremely helpful for the brand.
And the fact that we were able to do it without borrowing money made it where it wasn't like, oh, my gosh, this is a problem. You know, it was like, oh, shoot, it's not working out the way I'd hoped, but it's okay, you know, versus the anxiety of a big loan or a debt on something.
[00:55:56] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. What is there when you're looking at a future move? I know. Grace, your upcoming move is based off of, you know, location needs and, like, that being a big driver.
Are there. Is there an aspect of, like, I'm just itching for another project.
We're ready for a new project. We're ready for more to share.
How. How do you get to the point where you're like, okay, let. Let's move on to another personal project?
[00:56:27] Speaker C: Well, I think it is like a sickness, right? When you're in the Thing you see a house and all you see is potential. Everybody else is like, why would you buy that? And you're like, why wouldn't you buy that? It is dripping with potential, but it's a sickness. We both. I mean, we probably all three have. It's hard to turn off, but I think from. There's always in the back of. At least my brother, he's in marketing and he's like, so pumped that we're both doing personal projects because that is a. It's a huge catalyst. I think that you can't bank on it, like, being like, upping your brand and upping the.
What. What it does for the company. Like, you can't go super into debt and be like, but it's going to pay off in the end. Because that might not be true, but I think for our big partnerships like Kohler and Monogram and the companies that we work with regularly, they get excited too, because they can showcase their products in a home that they know a lot of people are going to see
[00:57:34] Speaker A: and it be a real home and not just a set that's built. That is
[00:57:37] Speaker B: exactly
[00:57:39] Speaker A: such a huge difference. Even with the brands that I've worked with, they're like, they would just always rather be in an actual home. So.
[00:57:46] Speaker C: Yeah,
[00:57:46] Speaker B: yeah, yeah.
[00:57:47] Speaker A: It's really true.
So now both of you have done this more than once, more than twice.
Does it get easier or does every project, personal project, feel just as exciting but a little vulnerable as the first time you shared or at this point you're just like, we're always open, like, you just come along for the ride.
[00:58:07] Speaker B: Grace, do you feel vulnerable?
[00:58:09] Speaker C: I don't feel vulnerable. I'm actually.
[00:58:11] Speaker B: I don't either.
[00:58:12] Speaker C: I'm most excited about this one because the. The homes that my husband and I have done, they've always been for another purpose. Like our. Our first house, we were just like scraping by train to get it, not, like, condemned. And then the second house was like, for the neighborhood, you know, like, we weren't intending to live in it forever, so it was like, what. What would be for real estate value? And then the cabin was for a rental. And so this is like, it's like the first time that we can design for our family, which is just really, really quite exciting.
[00:58:49] Speaker A: Is exciting an actual thought of, like, this is how we're going to live in this space.
And I will not dare ask you, is this the forever home? Because I know good and well it won't be.
[00:59:00] Speaker C: I mean, hopefully it's a little more forever than the Last ones. But no, we never say forever,
[00:59:06] Speaker A: Jane.
[00:59:07] Speaker B: It's actually go ahead
[00:59:10] Speaker A: for the designer who has a personal project in front of them. Is there any.
What I'm hearing is yes, share the story, document it, tell your journey. Is there anything in hindsight that you would advise someone to consider? Is there any reason why a designer who's embarking on their own personal project. Project.
Should consider as. To not share?
[00:59:35] Speaker B: Yes. I, I never open myself up to a poll of what should I choose for this.
At least I don't think I've ever done that.
Because I, I don't want to feel like I, I don't know. I just don't want to lose control of, of a choice.
Maybe you would make me make decisions.
[01:00:02] Speaker C: Super controlling. No, it's gonna be super
[01:00:05] Speaker B: controlling.
[01:00:06] Speaker A: But then also suddenly you're like second guessing your own, your own choice if like the poll ends up. And so, yes, see, there's a little hint of vulnerability there. There you go. You know, the tiniest bit. Just no polls.
[01:00:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:00:21] Speaker C: And I think if you know yourself and you know that like negative feedback would really impact like your, your mental health or something like that, then it's not worth it. It's really not.
But if you, if you love sharing and you want people to see your work, your own personal house is the best way to do.
[01:00:41] Speaker B: It's true, though. I do think having a thick skin is going to be super important.
[01:00:46] Speaker A: Do you think that having a thick skin is as important when you have a smaller following? Or do you think it's maybe even more important when you have a smaller following? Or have you felt the kind of ratios of good to maybe not so good feedback consistent as you've grown?
[01:01:03] Speaker B: I wonder if it would be harder when you have a smaller following because it feels much more intimate.
[01:01:08] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that it is.
[01:01:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:01:12] Speaker A: And I think when you have a smaller following, you also probably feel a little more connected to the people who are following you. It might feel a bit more personal. So I do think that there's a level of anonymity when you do hit it like a certain threshold probably.
Last question before I wrap up. I am wondering if you all are experiencing a specific social channel, have the most growth that is getting you the best return right now. Is there a place that you're really investing? I think I know the answer to this. You've alluded to it. But I'm curious if you have the same answer that I'm. That I'm projecting on you.
[01:01:54] Speaker B: Grace.
[01:01:54] Speaker C: Do you want me to say it? Yeah. We, we've always been Instagram people like that. We don't even know how to work TikTok. Mom, do you know how to work TikTok? I don't.
[01:02:02] Speaker B: No, I, I don't.
[01:02:04] Speaker C: But we, we are really excited about YouTube. I think the long form, you can really, like, get to know someone and talk through something. It's. It's just long form, more attention span. You could really capture the beauty of it. We're really excited about it because of our, our whole team and Craig.
And we will always also post on Instagram, I think, unless that becomes not a thing. I shouldn't say always, but those are two.
[01:02:32] Speaker A: You know, that's so interesting because I just was chatting with Shay McGee last week and she said the same thing. And both of you, having had, you know, hugely produced network shows, to say that, you know, YouTube's where it's at, I think is really encouraging for people who don't have whole network shows behind them. That, that, that even people as established as the established home can say, you know, this is worth exploring and putting your energy into. So thank you for sharing that. Okay, last question and I swear I'll let you hang up. What is coming up next for Jean Stouffer Design that you are allowed to share and excited to share? I know we've heard about your personal projects, the big moves coming up, but is there anything else we can learn about?
[01:03:17] Speaker B: There is.
Are you ready?
[01:03:20] Speaker A: I'm nervous. I'm excited. No,
[01:03:21] Speaker B: no, no.
It's our first ever coffee table design book.
[01:03:28] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness.
[01:03:31] Speaker B: With Harper Collins. It's really fun.
[01:03:33] Speaker C: It's really
[01:03:33] Speaker B: fun. It's really fun. It's called the Purpose of Home and it's big, beautiful imagery and essays on home. The Purpose of Home. And it's coming out in April of 2027.
[01:03:48] Speaker A: It's so exciting. That's around the corner. That actually feels very soon. Have you, you probably have a couple more months before it's like due or are you already done?
[01:03:57] Speaker B: Well, the, all of the images are in and all of the.
I, My, my job is doing all the writing, so I've. I mean, I. We're 98% there with the manuscript and so it's very exciting.
Should we tell them what the, what the theme is, Grace?
[01:04:20] Speaker C: Well, it's. It's fun. It's like more. It's going to be more lifestyle mixed in, which is very on brand, I think, and really fun. And so it takes you like metaphorically through a day at these different homes. So, like breakfast, coffee time. Lunch, Aperitivo. Is that what you say? And dinner.
And it's going through our family's homes and showing you the details and the people who live inside. So it's really exciting. We're so pumped.
[01:04:52] Speaker B: Yeah,
[01:04:53] Speaker A: it's so exciting. It feels so unique. It feels, as I said, so on brand for you. You're still making it work across all the different channels and I cannot wait to get a copy. Coffee. So that comes out in April and I'm sure pre orders will be available pretty soon after we launch this episode. So I'll have those details so we can include it in the show. Notes for everyone. Ladies, thank you so much for your time. This was so insightful. We are so grateful you continue to share your personal projects.
It has taught all of us as designers and enthusiasts so much about our own homes, but also how to present ourselves as business owners too. So thank you so much.
[01:05:32] Speaker B: Thanks so much for having the opportunity.
Yeah,
[01:05:36] Speaker A: I hope to talk to you both very soon. I'll see you girls later for more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more. Don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] the Interior Collective thank you so, so much for tuning in to this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations.
A big, huge thank you to our production team at IDCO Studio and Quinn made. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible.
Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living. A very special thanks to our seasoned partner, Materia, the design platform, helping interior designers source materials, manage specifications and streamline project workflows.
