[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host Anastasia Casey and I am so excited to have Heidi Callier back for another conversation. If you have not listened to her previous episode, go back to season two, episode one and start there. It is one of the most listened to episodes the show has ever had in our history and it is for a very good reason. Heidi is an AD100 designer known for her confident use of pattern, color, nostalgic detail. Her her work is layered, deeply personal and rooted in a love for vintage antiques and handcrafted things. And she has built a business model that absolutely blew my mind when I first heard it in detail at Design Camp. Here is the short version. Heidi presents an entire home all at once. Every hard finish, every soft finish, every fixture, every piece of furniture, including the vintage one presentation, a month of revisions and and then procurement begins and the design is done. She moves on to the next project.
We covered the philosophy behind the model and the markup structure in our last conversation, but today we are digging deeper into the mechanics of how it actually happens. What those six to eight weeks of intense design work actually look like inside the studio before anyone sees a thing. How vintage pieces specifically are handled within a full home presentation. What Meg Construction Project Management looks like once a project is handed off and how is she is managing all of this with a remote team? If the full presentation model has ever felt out of reach, this conversation may change how you think about why it is entirely possible.
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[email protected] hi Heidi, welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for giving us more of your time because you are super freaking busy these days. Because as I was just telling you, you are super freaking famous now and it is just such a pleasure for you to take time out of your day to teach all of us what what's going on?
[00:02:16] Speaker B: It's so nice to be back. It's so good to see you.
[00:02:19] Speaker A: Okay, well let's get a quick update of where Heidi Kier Design is today. How large is the team? How many active projects are you carrying and what does your role within those projects look like dayto day?
[00:02:32] Speaker B: So we have about 18 active projects right now. I have to look at our roster to verify the number and then we have 16 members and myself.
Oh your.
[00:02:45] Speaker A: Did you say 16 or 16
[00:02:50] Speaker B: not 16.
[00:02:51] Speaker A: I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this has escalated quickly.
I was like, where did that come from? I think you were at like four last time I talked to you.
[00:03:01] Speaker B: This is as big as I would like the team to be.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: Okay, can you tell us a little bit about why that is?
[00:03:07] Speaker B: I mean, we had, you know, I think we recently came off of having eight, nine plus myself.
And what I have discovered is that it's just becomes a lot of managing people I don't know. You know, it is just a lot of answering questions. And, you know, it's interesting because I still do so much of the creative work myself.
It doesn't really lessen my workload.
So it's been interesting, you know, and then there's obviously been an evolution. I hired my first studio director, which has been a game changer, and that's lightened some of the load of the people management. But I do think there's a sweet spot. I've talked to so many other designers and colleagues.
Like, it's like once you break that threshold of like 5 to 6, it really starts to become a different kind of ball game in your day, what your day to day looks like, what the operations look like.
And I just, I'm not, I don't. I don't want to be there. You know, I don't want to grow it to be like this massive firm. I want to be able to be select about the projects we're taking on and really, at this point in my career, just work on things that I feel passionate about.
[00:04:06] Speaker A: Can you dig in a little bit more to what your role is? You said you're still really highly involved in the creative and you have a studio director who's doing things talk to us about, like, client communication, that sort of thing. Where do you kind of delegate those tasks?
[00:04:20] Speaker B: I mean, I'm still very actively involved and I want to be. I can't imagine not knowing what's going on on all of the jobs and kind of like maintain maintaining them through the lifecycle. I still am doing 90% of the creative work, which is a challenge, but I like, I like it. You know, I can't. I have hired some other creative, a designer who's kind of freelance, and that's been helpful just to get some collaboration. I do see that shifting. You know, we're starting to. We're in a little bit of a transition right now. You know, we're. We're going from a model that was me being creative and, and everyone else project managing. And now we are going to More of a model where we're hiring designers who can do all of the things.
And so I do anticipate sharing some of that creative work. And I think there's so much value there.
And so there's definitely some change happening. But I still, you know, I'm still actively designing all of the jobs, really heavily involved in the creative. And then I do still, I'm a point of contact with the clients throughout the lifecycle. They do have designated project managers that they talk to about, like, logistical questions, timing, scheduling, all of that. But I do communicate with contractors on design details and client, you know, they do like to hear from you. So.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: Okay. And as we get into our actual core conversation today, this is just going to further blow people's mind that, like, not only are you doing all of the design work, but it like the rate and capacity in which you are presenting said design work. It's like your a superhero. So. Okay. And then, you know, I'm going to ask, I always ask, as a design firm, how are you guys currently handling billing? Hourly, flat rate combination. Obviously there's product markup, but on your design services, how are you handling that?
[00:06:00] Speaker B: Hourly,
[00:06:01] Speaker A: hourly or just flat? And then now that you have a team of six, is it one flat rate across everybody or do you cheer it?
[00:06:09] Speaker B: It's one flat rate across everybody
[00:06:11] Speaker A: because basically it's you the whole time anyway. So that makes sense.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: I mean, I just think we have explored so many different models over years, and we've done the numbers and, you know, to mark my rate, you know, what happens is my hourly rate stays lower to kind of even out with the team. But what, you know, the numbers end up being the same when I bring my hourly rate up and bring the team's hourly rate down.
And I think that there, it just keeps it very easy. It makes the conversation about billing very easy in those initial conversations with new clients, it makes billing very easily easy, easy. And I also think, you know, I am definitely not the principal that feels like my work is so much more valuable. You know, like these projects truly cannot be executed come to life without the work that my team does. So I think that's, you know, the value is consistent across all of us.
[00:06:56] Speaker A: One thing I've really learned from you, Heidi, over the years is your commitment to a easy experience for your clients. Transparent, easy, just like the most straightforward. And I definitely think that there's one studio rate. That's what you're getting billed at. I think that that eliminates a lot of questions and pushback. Okay, so you recently relocated from Seattle to San Francisco. Congratulations on the move. I know it's not super fresh anymore, but is since the last time we talked, what drove that decision and what has it required from the business operationally?
[00:07:32] Speaker B: I mean, my husband and I, you know, we met here in San Francisco and we moved away when I was pregnant with my sons.
And we had kind of, you know, as the kids got older and we got a little more of our lifestyles back, we just kind of felt like we missed the city and we missed the energy. And I personally really missed having like a creative community around me.
I wasn't in Seattle, so I didn't have really access to the design community there. And it is a very small design community.
There's not a lot of events and there's, you know, the design center's not wonderful. So it just, you know, creatively I was like, I really want to be a place where potentially I can have an actual team around me in a studio.
And then we just really missed city living. You know, like, we just felt like we wanted to change. I mean, the weather was also a big factor. So we talked about it for several years before we made the decision. We looked for a house for several years, and then when it finally happened, you know, we had to remodel the house, which pushed the move by a year. But we are very happy to be here.
Operationally, it hasn't really changed my business that much. I mean, that's part of the, that's one of the pros of having an entirely remote team is that you are able to kind of go and live wherever you want to.
It, you know, it has allowed me to dream a little bigger in terms of like, do I want a studio with an in person team? What does that look like if it was part of a hybrid model? Do I want to have a shop here? You know, like you, you, you're, you have access to a lot more.
It's also made me, you know, I have a wonderful design community around me. We have a great design center. I'm, you know, there's events all the time to go to if you want to.
So that part has been different. But operationally the studio is very much the same.
[00:09:10] Speaker A: I vote yes to a store in San Francisco. My sister still lives there. She's an architect there in San Francisco's home. So I'm voting yes to a shop in the city for you. Can you talk to us a little bit about how things are structured across time zones, across locations? Because our team is remote. I totally get It. But I'm surprised how many designers are very reluctant to it, even though they see an appeal and they like the flexibility of it. Talk to us just about how does communication work? How does. How does the, like, creative vibe kind of keep going when you're not all in the same space?
[00:09:47] Speaker B: It's challenging, you know, and I. I know why a lot of designers resist it, are not open to it, because it is. There's pros and there's cons. And, you know, the thing is, is that the pros of working remote and the flexible schedule, like the principal, does not get those. You know, what happens when you have a team across the country is that you start work really early and you end work really late. So, you know, that's one of the cons. You know, I have my east coast team starting to message me. I get up very early in the morning, so it's not a problem for me. But, you know, 4:35 in the morning, I'm starting to get chats.
And, you know, we have projects everywhere. So it works out well for us because if it wasn't my team, it would be the contractor.
So that is one of the cons of it, is that you really are, you know, and then my west coast team is working until 6, so I'm, you know, it's a long work day.
But it allows us to also, you know, staff projects kind of according to the time zones they're at. So it makes sense to have, if it makes, you know, if it works out, scheduling to have the east coast team on east coast projects and the west coast team on west coast projects. It doesn't always work out like that because different skill sets are required and, you know, depending on schedules and calendars and all of that. But it's, you know, remote work. Having an entirely remote team is a challenge. It's how do you, you know, try struggling to create a culture and how you maintain that, how you get to know your employees and keep them engaged with the. With the job and their projects. So that's something that we're juggling all the time.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: One of the big questions people come across is like, what do we do about samples? What do we do about that? Like, we have this huge sample library. But then, you know, do I need it across six different states? Because each employee is going to need it. How do you handle that? Do you package stuff up and ship it to your team? Or are they just memoing what they need?
[00:11:27] Speaker B: So, because I still do so much of the creative work, I'm the only One with the library. It's necessary, but that's going to shift. And I've always encouraged, you know, I have had creative before and I've always encouraged them to build their own libraries when, when possible so they can touch and feel things. I mean, I have also, you know, my design process really has evolved over the years to kind of the necessity of how much travel I've had to do. And I can't just be designing when I'm in an office. So I do a lot online and I'm able to do that, but not everybody's able to do that and I don't expect them to. So I encourage them to build libraries and you know, I can be a resource for whatever they need for that.
But otherwise it's pretty simple. I mean, we ship, you know, we do a lot of our presentations remotely as well because we'd be flying all the time. And clients I find actually like it.
There's something about doing a remote presentation that makes them feel less pressure, I think, to react in the moment.
We could talk more about that. But we ship a really beautiful sample box ahead of all of our presentations to our clients that has everything labeled and as beautifully designed. And so they have all of that and then they're able to touch and feel it.
[00:12:31] Speaker A: Okay, great. Yes, we definitely will get into design presentations.
But one of the last. One of the things that came up in our last conversation was that you were very hands on in the design process. But technical and procurement work lives with your team. How does that handoff work remotely? So like your team's doing technical drawings, you've done like initial concepts. How are you getting them that information?
[00:12:55] Speaker B: So it's a very elaborate system. We do everything on Google and we have. So every client has a folder and when I am building creative, every folder is broken down by room. So I'll go into the entry, that's where I start. And we call it the design document and is literally where I put all of the design. It's like sketches, you know, it literally says the flooring, these are the light fixtures, the placement. This is a sketch of what the built in will look like. Here's inspiration images.
It's every single spec to finish out that space.
And then the. And I do that across all of the rooms in the house until they're done. And the technical team goes in, they're picking up all that information for the drawings.
The PM team is picking up all the information that they need to build. Schedules, budget, design boards, request all the samples, everything to get Us ready for Presentation Day, and they're building all of our internal spreadsheets off of that. So once we get to Presentation Day, they have all of that information in spreadsheet form. It's presentable, and that's what we use as our kind of tracking and PM moving forward.
[00:13:55] Speaker A: Okay, we're going to get into design presentation. But one last thing about your remote team. What has surprised you the most about managing a remote team? And what, like, is working better and what has been harder to solve for people who are considering, you know, could I hire a remote designer or procurement manager, any of those things?
[00:14:14] Speaker B: Hands down, the hardest thing about it is trusting that people are working. When they say they are, you know, it sounds like such a little thing. And you have these people, and so many people are trustworthy. But, like, the temptation when you're sitting in your house to get up and go start dinner or do a quick dentist appointment and dip out, like, is real, and I totally understand it.
So it's challenging to get eight hours of heavily focused work of people that are working from their home, essentially, or, you know, a small office.
That is hands down the most challenging thing.
Yeah. And to trust that they're executing things as intended because you're not looking over a shoulder every day. You're not right there for them to access you all the time. And, you know, part of it is that you have to make it so they can't access you all the time, because otherwise they would be questioning you all the time. You know, if you were in a physical studio, there's no way that every single junior designer would be coming into the principal's office every five seconds asking a question. You know, there's more structure around it. There's team meetings.
And so you have to kind of like limit your access and then also make yourself accessible so they can ask you all the questions to ensure the project's, you know, successful.
I think we have really strong systems and, you know, we're able to troubleshoot all of those issues as they come up. And, you know, part of bringing on the studio director has been regular weekly team meetings that are both design oriented for them to ask design questions and then also, you know, PM oriented so they can forward questions from the contractor. And we're talking about scheduling and making sure everything's staying on track.
[00:15:43] Speaker A: Well, I think for a studio that exclusively bills hourly, making sure that you're going to get, you know, I think generally we want our Senior designers having 60 of their time directly billable to clients. And so when someone's remote. I mean, not only can you like not verify that, it's also like, okay, well, of that hour, did you flip the laundry? Like, what was happening becomes. It does become quite granular.
[00:16:06] Speaker B: Yeah. You start feeling micromanaging. Yep.
[00:16:09] Speaker A: Yes, for sure. And it eats up your time micromanaging that. And it doesn't feel good to be micromanaged. I mean, on, on either, either side of the team.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:18] Speaker A: Okay. Heidi, we need to dive into design presentations and how you structure them and how you execute them as the, you know, lead creative on the project.
I've heard you say in the past that it's like a six to eight week process and I'm just so fascinated with how you actually make that happen. So talk to us about the mechanics of what's happening between onboarding when a client signs to present day.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: So we have been really fortunate to be working off a waitlist for a few years. So, you know, it's. This is in theory, like if a client came to us and that wasn't the case and they said, great, we're ready to go sign a contract moving forward. So we, with the way the process is structured currently, we want to align our design presentation to right up before construction is going to start. So we don't. What we don't want to happen is a client to say, great, we're ready to go. We do all of this work that we do to get to presentation day, which is a lot of work. And then the client says, great, we haven't talked to any contractors. Maybe we'll start construction next year.
Based on contractor availability, we have to pull permits. It's going to be 18 months. Like, that's. We do not want that to happen. We want it to be that all of this, like, work has been done. There's probably a contractor or a few contractors that we know, we have started conversations with, the client has started conversations with. They know that the job exists, that what the rough scope of work is. They told us maybe they could start in August or whatever. So we want to align our presentation date to right before that, about a month before that.
This is for several reasons, but we want to. Because the presentation is so comprehensive. When we get to presentation day, the goal is that the design is wrapped up, done, finalized within 30 days after presentation. And we are into procurement. So this allow, you know, and say, then construction starts. So this allows construction to start, move seamlessly. We are getting things to the site as needed. There's no downtime. I mean, from a client perspective, it's advantageous because they can't change their mind as much.
It creates, you know, because they're seeing everything.
Let me back up a little bit. So say we set that. We say, great. The presentation day is going to be August 1st.
That's generally about six to eight weeks from the date we're having this onboarding conversation. So the first step is that we're having a big meeting with the clients when we're talking about functionality, how they live, what their lifestyle is about their family, and how they want to use the house and their vision for it and how they want to grow in it, and all of those very important things. And then very granular details. What kind of appliances do you use? You know, who cooks? What do you need for your nightstand? Storage, all of these very important questions. And we're also gathering, you know, aesthetic information at that time. Inspiration, images, overall, look and feel, mood, all of that. Um, and so this is just like a collection of data. You know, it's me being like, what is this project going to be?
Do I feel, you know, once I'm looking at all of these things, I generally start being able to form an idea in my head of, like, where we need to go with the project, and then we start developing the design. So. And we have a budget set as well with the clients at this point. We have said, great. We think the.
The project's going to cost X for FF and E and design fees. We estimate all of those on the front end. So the client has an idea of what they're going to spend, and then we start designing. And all, you know, this is me going from the front of the house to the back of the house, designing every single room to completion, every single spec. The cabinetry design. Cabinetry, hardware, decorative lighting, light fixtures, RCP construction set, fabrics, textiles. Every single spec needed to design that room to completion.
And while I'm doing that, the team is developing the budget, the finished schedules, the design boards, sample box.
I think that's the four deliverables.
And so when we get to presentation day, this is what we're presenting to the client.
[00:20:04] Speaker A: I still. I'm just like, I'm so wowed and truly trying to wrap my head around it. And I know people listening are also like, wait, what?
Okay, I love this. Fantastic.
And maybe this is just like, kind of where you're at in your career. But how do you get to the point where a client is ready to start construction but hasn't seen the design plans yet? Like, how do you get to the point where a contractor's ready to start. But they don't know what they're building.
[00:20:39] Speaker B: I mean, they do know what they're. You know, like, a scope of work does. Can go a long way. And we know what the scope is at this point. Like, yes. We don't know the cabinetry details. We don't know what the trim might look like. And so you're not getting a firm estimate from a contractor. I also will say we kind of separate that out. You know, we are not responsible for getting pricing from a contractor. We do not estimate construction. We can't tell you you're going to spend 5 million on this pro. You know, we say this is where our numbers are. We can't. We work in so many markets across the country with so many different contractors. There's just no possible way to estimate construction. I have no idea how people do this, but the contractor and the client have a general scope of work. You know, the client will know. We've talked to them about, like, this is what we're designing in terms of we're gutting that bathroom. We're going to be moving plumbing around or we're keeping plumbing locations. Like, we know all of that information on the front end. So the con. The conversations the client's having with the contractor are like, we're doing a gut remodel. We can expect that we're updating the entire electrical system. All plumbing is going to be updated. We're doing wall finishes throughout. We also tell our clients, like, this is what we're going to supply. So don't have your contractor include those numbers, you know, because we also supply tile, plumbing fixtures, decorative lighting, all of those hard finishes. We want to keep that in house.
So there is. You know, this isn't.
It's not like you're designing into a void. You know, there is a contractor that's engaged. This is a question we ask all of our potential clients on the front end. Like, have you talked to contractors who's part of the team?
But you do kind of have to, like, lean into it. What we don't want to happen is to present a design.
And as I said before, like, there's no. There's really no direction moving forward. Then we're talking to contractors for the first time.
The client's getting numbers there. They had no idea it was going to cost this much. It's, you know, to me, I don't understand how. Yeah, that happens.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: Got it. Neither do I. Thanks for explaining that. Okay.
And.
Okay. So ultimately, like, in a perfect world, someone has their. And Heidi, correct me if I'm wrong, but last time we chatted, I think you said you're like, half new build, half remodel. Has that shifted?
[00:22:38] Speaker B: No.
[00:22:40] Speaker A: Okay. And so does that process change any when you're talking about a new build, or is that actually more straightforward? Because it's like, okay, well, you know, you're doing a 5,000 square foot house, your builder is going to give you a number for that. But our number is still this.
[00:22:52] Speaker B: Yeah. I would say the difference with the new build is that generally those clients tend to have done a lot more legwork on the front end because they've gone through the thing of like, there's an architect probably engaged or they're bringing on architecture.
They talk to some builders, they have an idea of what it's going to cost. I mean, most people don't come to us and say, we want to build a 5,000 square foot house. We have no idea what it's going to cost. So at least they have some sort of idea of construction and they've done a little legwork there. And new builds also tend to always come with an architect, which, you know, the, the bigger the team, the more information you have. So a lot of times on remodels, there is an architect with us because we can do all of those drawings. So a lot of that comes back for us to manage.
[00:23:28] Speaker A: And do you feel like this has been true of your clients, like, your whole career, it's always worked like this because. Or do you feel like it's just kind of like you've gotten to this point where it's like, yeah, someone's already done all that legwork and coming to me, ready to design the interiors. Because I feel like so many people are like, I have to spend. The bulk of my job is educating them on how much this project's going to cost, what it's going to take to work with a contractor, et cetera. So I'm just like, how do you get these cool clients that are like, great, We've done all the work for you. Just pick out the pretty stuff.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: The reason that it has been like this is because I've made it be like this. And I think that is part of.
I think I talked about this at design camp too. Like, it's your business and you can do it how you want to do it. So this is the system. It was very early. I didn't always run it like this, but it was very early in my career. When I listened to a podcast and I was like, it really clicked for me, and I started doing work like this.
I mean, it's not a perfect formula. Nothing is. But it does work really well for us. And, you know, our clients, I think, appreciate it because it's so focused, it's so straightforward.
[00:24:32] Speaker A: Can you break down a little bit? Okay, so you're, you're saying that there's probably an architect already on the team. What level of selections are you making? Because I know a lot of designers, like, well, I work, you know, I'm redlining for the architect. And if you have stuff that's like, ready to already go and you're just doing interior shell, where do you feel like Heidi Collier kind of starts and stops when working with a team?
[00:24:59] Speaker B: So with architecture, I mean, it's different every, every time you work with an architect. But we prefer to own our own drawings. So we like to draw the design details. We. We. Even if an architect is eventually going to do a construction set and they're going to own that, we still need to draw the plans so that we can, I can see scale and elevation and understand that, you know, we need to work through all of that.
And I mean, this is a common conversation that I have with clients and architects, like, who's doing what scope of work? And I mean, the question is like, do you want an XYZ kitchen of the architect that you're hiring, or do you want a Heidi Callier kitchen? And that answer dictates how that is going to work. So,
[00:25:36] Speaker A: I
[00:25:36] Speaker B: mean, we have done a lot of new builds where we're designing all of the architectural detailing. We're picking the trim package, the millwork, the windows, the doors, the hardware on the doors, the door, you know, the kicks, the. All of this events.
And. But a lot of times it's a collaboration. So, you know, we will say, what do you guys think about this? Or they'll throw ideas around and we build on them.
But we do, you know, we're not the interior design firm. We're like the architects picking out the decorative lighting and we are picking out furnishings. Yeah.
[00:26:05] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. Would you say that you have a lot of say in the flow, the floor plan of the house, obviously the furnishings, floor plan, but like the floor plan of the house itself. Or do you feel like typically in your projects that's come to you set?
[00:26:20] Speaker B: No, we generally we're doing that.
We're doing the label
[00:26:24] Speaker A: in six to eight weeks. Okay, got it, got it, got it.
[00:26:27] Speaker B: I will say disclaimer on that is like, oftentimes, you know, there's permitting involved and with a remodel or a new build or something, like, we do want to get that shell set so we can get that step started. So a lot of times with like a new build or a significant remodel where it's not just over the counter permits or something, we will do that first layer of the floor plans first.
And it's literally just space planning. It's like, okay, this is, you know, we're not placing actual pieces of furniture. We're doing like making sure, like this is where the bed might go in this room. So we make sure that the windows work and making sure we can fit a king sized bed. All of those things we're figuring out on the front end so that they can take those plans, start the permitting process, and then we basically put that project down until construction is ready to start and then we will do the full design.
[00:27:11] Speaker A: Got it? Okay, that's super clear. So, okay, let's, let's work from Heidi's reality that you have a wait list. Okay, Sally Sue's ready to kick off what is needed, what information is needed, not just client preferences, that sort of thing, but like drawings, floor plans, measurements. How is your team gathering that information to allow you to do a complete home design? And so six to eight weeks, like who's responsible for getting you that information? And is your team flying out to go do those measurements? Do you guys hire a third party? How do you get those things so that like when Heidi gets to work on Monday, she's like, okay, I'm doing this for the next four weeks. Locked in.
[00:27:55] Speaker B: We, we have a, you know, we work with remote contractors to get as built done of all of our projects and unless there's an architect involved and often, oftentimes they're commissioning that.
So they will send us, you know, I don't speak cad. So they'll send us everything that the drafters don't do cad, but so they have everything they need. And then they'll send full interior photos of literally every corner of the house.
And so that all goes into like the client's design folder. And so I feel like I have everything that I need. My team will then send me blockings of interior elevations, dimension floor plans so I can start understanding scale. And like, you know, I'll go into my little free floor plan and start dropping furniture in because I don't use cat.
[00:28:40] Speaker A: I had a really good call with, I guess it was Melissa from OHO Interiors a couple weeks ago and she was talking about how her team will go out and get Specs and measurements of any existing pieces a client has that they want to incorporate.
Is that something you guys do? I thought that was so interesting. I feel like a lot of people don't talk about the fact that like people have furniture and maybe they want to keep some of their furniture. Do you prefer to do something top to bottom, you know, completely refreshed for the space or will you work with existing pieces and how do you gather that information if you do
[00:29:11] Speaker B: so, yes, we will work with existing pieces, you know, to a limit. Like I'm very honest with my clients and I'll say great, this is, this is a beautiful piece. We're going to keep it, no problem. Or like this is should go somewhere else.
So yes, I mean if the client is a collector and they have beautiful heirlooms and we are definitely going to find or something that's meaningful. Yes. Like I love to work with clients existing pieces.
Generally the clients will send us a Google Doc or something that has pictures and measurements on it.
[00:29:34] Speaker A: Your clients sound awesome.
If you've been running your firm for a few years now, you've probably got a system in place and I do use that term loosely. It's going to be a mix of apps, some spreadsheets, maybe a project management tool that was close but never quite right. And you are still the one holding it all together.
But here's the thing. Most tools were not built for the way interior designers actually deliver projects. Materio was concept to handoff approvals to procurement to billing with QuickBooks sync built right in one connected workflow Interior Collective listeners get 50% off their first month at getmaterial.com free for 14 days, no credit card required. That's M A T E r I o getmaterial.com okay, so let's talk about how you manage the this design Sprint. When you have you said, you know, 18 is kind of what you have on your roster right now, that many projects in rotation, obviously they're all at different phases. Some are in construction, some are getting ready for install. You're probably not designing all 18 at one time, but how are you time blocking that to be able to be super focused on one project, start to finish, to present to a client in six weeks.
[00:30:46] Speaker B: So I'm only designing one project at a time. So that's really the key to this. It's not like you can have four of these on your plate. It's everything is either presented, approved and into project management or waiting for their turn. So it's one project being designed at a time. So when I start that project, it is the only project I'm designing until it's finished. I mean, of course, yes, there are 5,000 emails that come in every single day related to other projects and maintenance and all of those things. And your clients that are waiting in the wings also have questions and it's managing all of that, but it really has to be just that one project. And for me, creatively, it works because that's where my head space is. I'm literally like thinking about this project and I'm running and you know, at night. And so I like, I just, I can't move on to something else until I have finished this one.
And that's, that's the key. You can only do one at a time.
[00:31:33] Speaker A: Okay. And then pop quiz question. So you're thinking about these projects while you're running and when you're in bed at night. How are you handling remembering to bill those hours?
[00:31:43] Speaker B: I do. I'm pretty good about knowing over the years. I mean, you should, you should be collecting all of this data, like, as you're building your firm of like how long it actually takes you to do things.
I know at this point it takes me X amount of hours to design a living room. I know that it takes me X amount for a powder room and a kitchen and all those things. And we also know what it takes our team at this point. This is how you estimate jobs.
So, you know, and it's the thing with time. Building creative is not straightforward because sometimes the entire design for a living room will come to me in 45 minutes.
You can't just bill your client 45 minutes. So it's really important to like, I mean, I have a standard around. I, you know, this takes 12 hours or whatever it is, and that is how I build creative time.
[00:32:24] Speaker A: At what point in that sprint are you locking in decisions versus still exploring? You seem like a very decisive person to me in like the play around, still exploring phase. And then also, are you ever showing your clients options? And if so, would you say it's like, yeah, they're going to get two options within an entire house. They'll get to see two sofas. I'm considering how do you play around with like, your work is just so creative. So it's like, how do you get to that point of this is finished and ready to present? And also what the client gets to see is like, how, how finished is this finished?
[00:33:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I'm, I am a very decisive person. I think you have to be in this job or I think you'll get into trouble, but I am not. I don't like to marinate on things forever. So once I've made a decision, like, that's pretty much it. I've pictured that room like that in my head, and I'm like, but I won't. You know, the flip side of that is, like, I won't finalize it until I'm 100 sure that I found the right fabric, the right light fixture. You know, I'm not gonna find something mediocre and move on. It's like, I will marinate on that in that moment until I feel 100% this is the right move. But once I make that decision, that's the decision, and I move on.
I think that's also really key to just, like, keeping workflow going and feeling confident about your decisions when you present to a client.
I. I really believe in the design.
We do present options sometimes. I'm never presenting, like, two full living rooms. I'll say, like, here are two side tables, maybe two. Two table lamps. It's rare that I do it with textiles because the textile mix is so specific. And it starts like, we pick one apart, the whole thing falls apart.
But with other selections, sometimes, especially if I put something in that's very expensive or I know it maybe is beyond their comfort zone, I want to have another option in there in that moment so that I don't have to go back and reselect later on.
[00:34:14] Speaker A: As you've said, the creative process is so fluid, and, like, you know, sometimes it can come to you in 45 minutes, and sometimes it can, you know, take a full week or 10 days to make a decision on something? Can you give us a quick glimpse into your brain as to you're sitting down to design an entire house? Do you start thinking of the house as, like, okay, here's the overall mood and vibe of the whole house, or do you already have that in your brain and so you're, like, just knocking it out room by room?
[00:34:42] Speaker B: So I create an internal document where I start just putting. There's, like, a category for general ideas where it's like, I'm listing designers who are, like, a good inspiration for this project, maybe specific projects that are a good reference. Vendors like, oh, we're going to use. This is a good project for Jam or sewn or, you know, because there. That is a really good starting point for me to design. So it starts as this, like, overall thing. And I'm, you know, I'm putting words like colorful, lots of pattern, mid Century Italian lighting, you know, traditional overstuff furniture, whatever the, you know, overall direction is. And then I get more granular and I start going by a room. So I spend a few days doing this for each project. And so. And I'm collecting the notes in this document. So it says, like, entry. Maybe it's to Gourne. Maybe we're doing a roundtable with a marble top. Maybe it's really. And it's specific ideas. And I'm moving through the house like this. As I'm getting ideas, I'm adding to this document. When I go for a run and I get ideas, you know, I put them in there so that when it comes time to design that full house, say I start the entry that day, I have my notes already. I'm like, oh, I had this idea about doing this graphic wallpaper and it. That. And I build on that as I go.
Yeah.
[00:35:51] Speaker A: When you're running, are you voice dictating into your notes or do like, drop it all, like, physically type it in when you get back? How does that work? Because, like, you're a big runner. I know you and Ann are like runners, and you do your creative thinking in that. But I'm like, I mean, for me, I could not be making notes while I was running. I'm just trying to survive. But are you. How are you actually, like, documenting those?
Those? I mean, I
[00:36:16] Speaker B: send myself, like 50 emails. Literally, it's just 50 emails with like a little note in it or like, you know, blue ceilings in this room. And I have. As I've gotten older, I have to be more specific because I will be like, what is a blue ceiling? Where am I talking about?
But that's. And
[00:36:30] Speaker A: so
[00:36:30] Speaker B: you're
[00:36:30] Speaker A: like, while you're running, you'll just email yourself.
[00:36:33] Speaker B: Yeah,
[00:36:33] Speaker A: okay. Got it. Okay. And for again, so many people are like, man, I wish I could just design something start to finish. Like, this sounds amazing. What do you feel is the biggest risk to a presentation timeline?
And also just, I mean, even the concept of presenting hard and soft finishes at one presentation is foreign to a lot of the industry. And so what do you feel like is the biggest risk with that? And how do you protect against that?
[00:37:04] Speaker B: I mean, the biggest risk is the obvious one, which is that your client hates everything. And they're like, this is the total wrong direction. Like, redesign.
That's the biggest risk for sure.
[00:37:13] Speaker A: That's a risk. Yeah.
[00:37:14] Speaker B: Knock on all the wood. That has never happened to me because. And I think it's for a few reasons. You know, it's because we do so much legwork on the front end. Like, if I do not feel like the client's inspiration imagery is telling me enough, or I'm like, this is just a bunch of play. D'oh. I don't understand what's happening here. I will work on our own inspiration. We do it regardless. We still work on our own inspiration deck, but.
And I will talk to the client about it. Like, what do you like about this? What don't you like about this? I will put fabrics in front of them. You know, what do you like any of. Just because I want to make sure going into that design phase, like, we really understand what the vision is here.
I also think I. I do. There is a lot of strength in, like, believing in your own work.
So when I get to presentation day, like, I have no problem standing by my decisions. You know, if a client says, like, I don't know, I'm like, no, you have to trust me here. This is the right decision. And the part of all of the years of work and the press and everything like it. People trust you more, and so you get a little bit more freedom to do that.
[00:38:10] Speaker A: Yeah, I.
I feel like there's feedback we get. Sometimes people are like, oh, we're doing hard or mostly furniture presentations. Sometimes we even have to split that into two because someone gets so overwhelmed. Like, after two hours, they're like, I can't keep making decisions. I imagine this presentation is quite long. Can you talk to us about, like, how long does this presentation actually last? And if it's not that long, how are you allowing someone to sit and, like, think over those decisions to get the approval, revision requests?
[00:38:42] Speaker B: So another part of the process that is probably very different than other designers is that I send the design out ahead of time. So we are not doing a presentation day where we're like, surprise, here's everything. Digest it all. In this meeting, I.
This was born out of kind of, like, the way that I digest information and my feeling over the years.
That's a lot of information for clients to digest. And it. There is also this expectation when you are physically with them as they're digesting it, that they react to it in a positive manner.
And it is a lot of. It is a lot of change you are proposing. It is a lot of money you're proposing. It's very personal for people and for myself. I would want to be alone in that moment so that I could digest everything and have my reaction, gather my thoughts, and then share them with my designer. You know, during. When we meet and go over it together.
It's so, I mean, some of these meetings, Anastasia, I have presented like a 10,000 square foot house and had a less than half an hour meeting because the client.
[00:39:44] Speaker A: I'm literally going to have a heart attack. I'm going to have a heart attack.
Okay, okay. Okay. So let's talk about what you're sending ahead of time is, are you.
Do you record a video that you send along with it? Is it literally just a PDF and a box of beautiful samples beautifully packaged up?
[00:40:03] Speaker B: Yeah, we don't record. We send the PDF over email.
I send the design boards over email. And then we send a beautiful sample box that they get a few days before presentation.
I try to send the presentation day out. Like, I, you know, I gauge their schedules. Like, do they work 12 hours a day? How long are they going to need with this thing?
And I will try to send out at a time that I know that they will have a little time to review it. And I encourage them when I send that email to review it before presentation.
[00:40:30] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:40:32] Speaker B: I mean, you know, it's, it's not, I think for traditionally how the industry has done this is there's this thing where you get to presentation day. It's like surprise. Like here we have done all of this work. We are going to walk you through every single moment. And like, I think for some clients that might be the right. I have, I have had meetings like that where they haven't it ahead of time.
They. And it's not necessarily that they want that experience of like being walked through every single thing because I think there's a fatigue that happens.
But my general experience is that clients like to get it ahead of time. They, they appreciate being able to sit with it on their own as a couple or, you know, if it's a family to kind of like. And I think it, the advantage too is they've had some time to digest. So it's like generally when we get in these meetings, they already have feedback for us. So we are collecting that feedback. They want to see an alternate for that table lamp. They don't like that floor, that rug. And so when we hang up that call, it is like straight into ultra. You know, let's provide some alternates and we send that immediately.
[00:41:27] Speaker A: I mean, you're selling me on this. It makes, it makes sense. I feel like as a client it kind of gives you that HGTV reveal moment, but without having to be on camera in front of your designer, you can see still be wowed by the whole thing.
[00:41:43] Speaker B: And
[00:41:44] Speaker A: It's a lot. I mean, at this point, you, you, you've set a budget, you've now designed within that budget. So they're not going to be stressed out about that side table was $8,000. Because it's like, well, don't worry about it. The whole thing is within budget and they can sit and talk about what they liked and didn't like. And I mean, I feel pretty confident I could say yes to Heidi Kelly, your presentation when it's presented to me in entirety. But I would start to nitpick things if I was looking at them individually.
[00:42:12] Speaker B: 100%.
[00:42:13] Speaker A: Okay. Okay, well, let's get into this next phase of the conversation. Because you are so dedicated and inspired by vintage and build your projects around vintage. And so this concept of I'm going to design an entire house presented to you the day before construction starts, and then somehow, magically, that vintage is still going to be available for you.
You know, when we start the procurement process, are you presenting specific, exact vintage pieces in this presentation or are you dropping in the same type of classic mid century chair? And you will find one of sorts within that
[00:42:56] Speaker B: we are presenting specific vintage pieces.
[00:43:00] Speaker A: Okay. And is it because you are Heidi, that every vintage dealer is like, no problem. I will hold that for you until. So then, are you just buying everything?
[00:43:09] Speaker B: No. Oh, God, no. In fact, I don't buy anything because I have found over the years, like, anything that I have actually bought thinking I would use it in a project I never use. It's some weird reflex.
So, no, we're not buying anything. If there's something like, super, super special. And I'm like, oh, this is so amazing. It's gonna make this room. I will like, send it to the client ahead of time and be like, can we buy this? But that's rare.
So generally, you know, we get to presentation day. The team has been asking for holds.
It's not a perfect science. Some vendors don't allow holds. We basically, you know, cross our fingers and hope for the best.
It actually works out more than you think it would, you know, and we do tell our clients, you know, because we do the presentation and then we send the budget out right after all of the vintage is highlighted a certain color. And we say we're looking for fast decisions here. We've held these for weeks now, and most clients are good about getting those responses to us first. If they're not ready to approve the whole budget, if things, you know, oftentimes with Vintage 2, I'll provide a few options, like I'll be searching, and I'll be like, okay, I found these three that I like.
The. The benefit of that is, like, even if it's not one the clients chose in their final selection, we can say, here are two alternates that one sold.
But I would say, you know, on a house that's 5,000 square feet, the amount of vintage we use, which is a lot. If the client is efficient about approving the vintage budget, like, maybe five things sell.
It's not, like, a crazy amount.
[00:44:24] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:44:25] Speaker B: We're all. There's so much vintage out there. We're all looking at different stuff. I mean, and I can tell if something's going to be, this is good. Like, I can see other designers are looking at this, or this is going to be a special piece.
[00:44:34] Speaker A: Right? Or it's, like, such a great price that totally. We just. Then I'll get
[00:44:38] Speaker B: approval for that ahead of time. Yeah.
[00:44:40] Speaker A: Okay.
I'm still just like, this is. This is like when you're a kid and, like, I want to be an interior designer, this is like what you envision it to be. It's like, I just get to do a whole dollhouse. Not that it's not a ton of work and incredibly difficult and. And you're so skilled and talented all wrapped into one, but it's just like, you know, I've had a lot of these conversations, Heidi, and people have just not been committed to setting these boundaries of, this is how I want this to work. So it's so great to hear that, hey, it can work. It can work for people to do it this way.
[00:45:19] Speaker B: I mean, I think for me, I can't understand the other side. Like, I don't understand how you can present a lighting package without knowing what the furniture is gonna look like. I just don't understand that aesthetically. Like, I don't understand how you can pick out a light fixture for a dining room without knowing what the table is, the wall coverings, the chairs. Because it all plays together in my mind. And conversely, I can't imagine how you pick, you know, that for the dining room and not know what's going on in the living room. So it's part of how my brain works, I think.
I think there is. It's a discipline for sure, because it is a lot of work to do that and say, you know, no, we are picking that last trim even though we're stumping it right now. Like, we are picking that before we move on.
But I think it allows for a really cohesive design in a way that I think is hard to achieve otherwise.
[00:46:05] Speaker A: Yeah, and I think it certainly is why a Heidi project looks like a Heidi project, and it's because of the way you presented it and executed it. There wasn't. You didn't leave a lot of room for mid project shifts and in the best way.
Okay, so you've presented.
Then talk to us about how you handle revisions and what level of revisions you allow and also, what do you see typically? Does anybody suggest revisions to you at this point?
[00:46:34] Speaker B: For sure, yeah. I mean, sometimes. No, sometimes this is like the dream. You know, they're like, great, everything looks good, let's go. But generally, I mean, clients have, you know, a few options, and if it's not. If it doesn't come after presentation, it normally comes after the budget presented. So it's like, oh, I love that side table. But it's, you know, $8,000. I really don't want to spend that, even if it's within budget, which is something I've thought about a lot over the years, because people still do tend to get caught up in those little numbers, even if the big number is what they were anticipating.
But, yes, we do. Of course, we allow for revisions and expect them.
We ask that they are given to us efficiently. I mean, generally they're given to us in that meeting, but if they're not, we ask that they are given quickly after, and it's something we tackle. I hate doing them.
I absolutely hate doing them. So it's something I want to do and get out of the way immediately.
And also while my brain is still fresh in that project creatively. So I'm, you know, I'm able to just kind of like, dive back in, pick them really quickly, and we want to wrap them up as efficiently as possible.
[00:47:30] Speaker A: Okay, before we get into project management, can you just tell us, for that digital presentation that sent as a PDF, are you guys doing full 3D renderings, watercolor renderings? Are you doing kind of like Photoshop mockups? What is the actual level of execution on that for someone to be like, yep, this is perfect. No notes,
[00:47:52] Speaker B: no renderings, no renderings. I don't do renderings. I mean, we'll do them if we have to, but if a client requests them, but it's not part of our normal process, and I actually strongly discourage them. I mean, I think that I just, I tend to lean more in, like the old school decorator zone here, where it's like, part of it is like, you have to trust me, that you hired me for a reason. And I know this is Going to look good.
Part of it is like a rendering does not accurately convey what a room is going to feel or look like, especially with textiles, wood finishes, vintage pieces. Like, I think sometimes the renderings are more of a detriment than they are an advantage when you are proposing projects. I think it's good for construction.
Again, we still don't use them, though. I think it's nice to leave a few things up to the imagination. So this is like the old school design boards. I mean, we're literally showing every product with a label. The drapery, fabric, and then they have the beautiful sample box, too, but no renderings.
[00:48:47] Speaker A: Okay, and then last question, and I'll move on, because I. I know I got to let you go here, but you have. You presented and had the meeting of the design presentation itself. At that meeting, they have not seen itemized numbers for each piece. Correct. The budget comes after they've approved the aesthetic.
[00:49:06] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:49:08] Speaker A: Great. Okay. And that's just like, we've set what the total budget is. It's $20 million worth of furniture going into this house, and we're within that number.
[00:49:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And then we do. You know, it's intentional to wait to show the budget until after the presentation, because you want them to get excited, like, without thinking about the number yet. You know, they know the number, but they can't see granular yet. And I want them to feel like, let's get you excited about the design first. And then here is the budget. We generally send it out either the next day or a few hours after.
[00:49:38] Speaker A: Okay. So it is ready to go. You guys have put in the time to itemize that, including recovering all of the vintage furniture, adding the piping details, all of that. That is
[00:49:47] Speaker B: everything.
[00:49:48] Speaker A: You know, those numbers. Okay, great. So now things pretty much get handed over to the team. Is that correct? They take over project management. They take over procurement.
[00:49:56] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:49:58] Speaker A: Okay. And you are delivering the construction binder. Everything's just going over to the contractor. And at that point, once a client is signed off, are you then ready to pick up your next design project? Like you, as in Heidi, specifically within the team. This one's closed out. We're going to the next.
[00:50:13] Speaker B: Yes, exactly.
[00:50:15] Speaker A: Do you. Do you build any buffer into that?
[00:50:19] Speaker B: I mean, I have to create because I need a little, like, break after to kind of recalibrate and get ready for the next thing. It's generally. I tend to dislike this phase very strongly. I get really crabby, and I don't like starting a new project.
The first two days is rough for Me and then once I'm in it, I'm in my happy place.
But I do build a few day buffer so that I can, you know, attend to other things, not be creative for a little while.
You can't just be creative all the time. It's a lot.
[00:50:46] Speaker A: You mentioned earlier in the show that you are, you know, you are on the team of contractors do contractor things and we're doing the design. I'm not going to come up with those numbers. You have to get that. How does that translate when it comes to project management? How much is your team on site? How much do you expect a contractor to be providing you photos, videos, what that looks like, especially when you're remote for the majority of your projects?
[00:51:10] Speaker B: I mean we do, we, we need that a lot. We, we like a lot of photos, we like a lot of videos, we do a lot of zoom meetings. That being said, you know, I do go on site, the team goes on site, but it is milestones. So it's, you know, set for. We're going to come on site, you know, for right when tiles happening or electrical rough in before drywall goes up, just to confirm all those details.
But you know, I'm not on site every month. Even generally for a new build. Maybe it's four times throughout the life cycle of the job.
[00:51:39] Speaker A: Okay. And project management still just being billed at an hourly rate. Do you guys bill install hourly too or does that move over to like a flat fee?
[00:51:49] Speaker B: So we bill our time hourly for install, but we include an install estimate for the receiver, any anything else that's being installed, labor, window treatments, wallpaper, all of that on the front end and the client plays that up front. So it's just our time that's billable.
[00:52:08] Speaker A: Okay. We have to talk about the collections, your collaborations and your collection drops with both Lulu and Georgia and also June Loy alongside the design studio. Where does designing hundreds of SKUs a year fit into this process? Do you have to block out? Okay. Instead of a design project for the six weeks I'm working on products.
[00:52:32] Speaker B: I mean the thing about working with, with bigger companies like this is they have such great teams. So it's not like you're sitting here drawing all the furniture. You know, that's not what's happening. It's like you're coming to them with ideas.
They're, you know, doing some legwork on their end to see what's feasible and then they're coming back to you with the presentation. You know, it's a very fluid process and much more organic than I had thought it originally was where I think I thought it was like, you do present all of the drawings and the renderings and all this and they build it. It's not like that.
I guess it depends on who you partner with, but my partnerships are not like that.
And it's, you know, it's a process that takes a long time. You know, you start designing a collection with somebody, it's two years before it hits market. And all of that time is like you're doing, you're, you know, they're working with their vendors, you're seeing samples, they're revising drawings. You're going there to see the samples in person, they're revising.
So there's so much and then there's the press around it. It does require a lot, but I think it requires less than I thought I did.
Yeah, if, if you work with the right teams. I am very lucky to work with great teams.
[00:53:32] Speaker A: What I mean, I'm sure there's people knocking on your door all the time to do collections for them. What made you decide that Lulu and Georgia and June Ly were the right people to launch these collections with? Because it's not like you did like a collab. I mean, they are comprehensive collections.
[00:53:50] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, for me, it's always about the people and the, and the companies. And like, if it aligns with kind of the ethos of my firm and if I like them, if they're good people, if they're going to treat me well, if they're going to be, you know, reasonable, if they treat the people that work with them well, those things are really important to me. And then it's, you know, it wants to be something that I'm excited about. Like, I wanted to design rugs.
I really love, you know, the family behind the business. They're really great. And with Lulu, obviously it was a no brainer. You know, these things come to you and you're surprised by them and it's flattering. It's just picking the right fit.
And I love both the teams. I knew it was a right fit. And, you know, both have been so wonderful about trying to remain true to my voice and make sure that the collections feel like they belong in my aesthetic and they really are respectful of that.
[00:54:41] Speaker A: How do. I mean, obviously you can't get into specific numbers, but like, how do having collections at major retailers play into kind of like Heidi's long term goals? I mean, hopefully you make money off of it. And so like, do you get to slow down the number of Projects you're taking on. Do you want to slow down the number of projects you're taking on? Like, how does this play into the big picture?
[00:55:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you can definitely make, you know, money on them, that's for sure. Especially if the partnership is right and the product is strong, there's definitely a lot of potential there.
I think it allows you to be able to take a step back and say, like, I'm only going to engage with projects I'm really interested in. It takes a little bit of the pressure off in that way.
And it's a revenue stream that's different, you know, And I think with design, it is a really hard job. I think most people don't understand that unless you're in it. Like, it is a very stressful, difficult job, dealing with clients, contractors, so many ways that it can be stressful. And so it takes a little bit of that load off, which is nice. And it becomes, you know, you work for it, but it's more passive income. But you're not actively engaged in it every day. You're not dealing with a fire every day.
There's a lot of value there, I think.
[00:55:56] Speaker A: Okay, what's coming up next for Heidi Galliar design that you can share? I'm sure you have a lot of NDAs out right now.
What can you share with us here on the show?
[00:56:07] Speaker B: I have book two will come out next year, next fall, which is exciting.
Working on that with Erzoli right now.
And that's been fun to do a second time around because obviously the first time was just complete learning curve.
And
[00:56:20] Speaker A: with Harris, I'm sure.
[00:56:21] Speaker B: Yep, with Harris. Yep. Which is great. And I have a collection coming out in at Deco office launching, actually, with Elizabeth Eakins that I'm very, very excited about.
Textiles and wall coverings.
And then I have a second collection launching with Lulu, I think sometime next year. And obviously my second collection with Lulu just dropped, so. Yeah, and then
[00:56:45] Speaker A: that was. That was such a fun drop to see. I feel like their marketing for that was so fun.
[00:56:51] Speaker B: And
[00:56:51] Speaker A: I was like, where did you go to shoot this? I'm like, that's not around the corner from your house. It looked. It looked great. The. The launch was fantastic. Congratulations.
[00:56:59] Speaker B: Thank you,
[00:57:01] Speaker A: Heidi. This was so inspirational, aspirational at the very least, and super informative. Thank you for breaking it all down. And thank you for reminding us that, like, hey, we're running our own businesses. We can do it however the heck we want to.
[00:57:13] Speaker B: Totally. It was so nice to chat
[00:57:16] Speaker A: for more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more. Don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] the Interior Collective thank you so so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. A big, huge thank you to our production team at Idyco Studio and Quinn made. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible.
Until next time. I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living.
