The Transformative Power of Pivoting with Tiffany Leigh

[00:00:12] Speaker A: Welcome to another episode of the Interior collective. I'm thrilled to be joined today by my close personal friend and our first canadian on the show, the talented Tiffany Piotrowski, principal designer and founder of Tiffany Lee Design. Known for her studio's thoughtfully curated approach to interiors and expertly established systems and processes, Tiffany has formed a collective of like minded women who share her belief that every detail matters. In our conversation today, Tiffany candidly shares about the transformative power of pivoting and the invaluable insights on navigating unforeseen challenges as a business owner. From emphasizing the importance of a clear brand identity to defining brand goals, Tiffany offers a wealth of wisdom amongst moments of raw vulnerability and profound candor behind the complexities of running a design studio. Find this episode's bonus materials now on [email protected]. The interior collective or book a call directly with Tiffany on the expert Ansax has always been known for their premium stone and coming soon, they are coming out with new stone furniture collections and bathroom consoles carved out of a single block of premium marble. Sign up for ansax [email protected] to be the first to see the new collections as they launch in June. We are so excited to invite you to dive deeper into the interior collective. Podcast episodes now on Patreon unlock access to in depth analysis, helpful downloads and worksheets created with each podcast episode. Subscribers gain behind the scenes access to additional resources like examples and screens, screenshots of guest spreadsheets, construction documents, and so much more. Your subscription also gets you immediate access to our private community of interior designers and our team of industry experts. Ready to answer your questions? Subscribe [email protected]. The interior collective or linked in the show notes join the interior collective Patreon community and let's continue this conversation. Hello Tiffany, and welcome to the interior collective. I can't believe we made it and we're finally here chatting. [00:02:20] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me, Anastasia. I have never missed an episode, so I'm very excited to be here. And you always have such a high caliber of guests, so I'm really honored to be included in that roster. [00:02:31] Speaker A: Well, I'm super honored and grateful that you are here to talk about the things that we are talking about today. I think it just speaks volumes as to who you are as a person, who you are as a business owner, and for everyone listening. This is extra, super fun because by the time this episode actually airs, Tiffany and I will have been on a super fun english vacation together we're going on the Boxwood Avenue retreat, and it's really fun that we get to kind of have a chat before we fly across the world to hang out. [00:03:00] Speaker B: I'm so excited for England. Can't wait. [00:03:02] Speaker A: Okay, so before we begin to dissect today's topic deeply, let's go ahead and understand the foundation of Tiffany Lee design. Take us back to the beginning and a brief history of TLD up until now for a little context. How many people are on your team? How long have you been in business, et cetera? [00:03:22] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So we currently have five team members, and we started the business in July of 2019. So a little bit of backstory. You know, as a kid, I was just fascinated by the world of design. Eventually went to design school. While I was doing that, I started to design blog. I was working as a kitchen designer at the home Depot to put myself through school blogging every day, getting a degree in design. I sometimes don't know how I did it all, but we did. And then I started working for a really well known canadian interior design firm. And that was a really great experience. I got to work under some amazing mentors, including Tommy Smythe, who continues to be a big mentor to me to this day. And after about four and a half years of working there, my landlord told me that she was selling my apartment. So I was living downtown Toronto, and I had to find somewhere else to live. I ended up moving 2 hours away to live in my partner Luke's place. And that was kind of the universe telling me, it's time, you know, it's time. Your living expenses are never going to be less than they are now. So I felt comfortable to kind of take that leap. So I ended up. That was February 2019. I took the leap, started my own business out of Luke's dining space, where you couldn't run the coffee maker and the printer at the same time without blowing a fuse. It was quite the place. And, you know, I was so fortunate that things just took off really quickly. I networked with some really great luxury home builders who were able to get me some really high caliber clients. Right from the beginning, my blogging presence had also set me up on social media, so I was getting inquiries really early. And from there, we just moved fast and furious. Now we're located about an hour north of Toronto because. Because I'm in Canada for all your us listeners, and we love it. We're in a big two story office here, and we're having a great time. [00:05:17] Speaker A: So today I really want to talk about the power of pivoting, along with the decisions and circumstances that inform those pivots. Can you share a pivotal moment in your journey as a business owner when you had to make a significant decision to pivot or scale, scale back or scale up? And how did it shape the trajectory of TLD? [00:05:41] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So 2023 was actually quite a transformative year in my business. I had this gut feeling that it was time to shift focus and start to evolve to kind of the next stage of where I wanted my business to be and to really shift that focus back into being more present in design. You know, we had started to grow and expand and try all these different things as one does, and that's the fun part of owning your own business. But I. Our team had grown, and I felt that I had gotten a bit removed from the design process and more into kind of a people management type role, a lot of it. And for the first time in my life, I started waking up feeling really anxious. And that's when I kind of knew something is not sitting right with me. I was feeling a bit drained and uninspired and uncreative and a little bit like I'd gotten far away from where I had started and where my passion really lays. And so I decided to kind of shift back into romanticizing the home and the design process and creating spaces that truly evoke, like, visceral emotions for our clients and tell their story. And in order to do that, you really have to be present with the clients. You have to connect deeply with the client. You have to understand the things that are nostalgic to them, that mean home to them. You also have to create spaces that are going to be nostalgic for their kids when they're older. That's what kind of fuels my fire. And in order to do that, I was being stretched too thin, and I had to let some things go. And one thing that I decided to let go was our small shop. We had an online shop called TLT Curated. And I decided that in order to really focus our resources where our hearts were at the team, that it was kind of time to let that go, at least for now, and get back into the meat of the design. [00:07:32] Speaker A: That is so just relatable. You mentioned that you had gotten to a point where you were waking up anxious. And as a business owner, there have been many, many, many seasons where that anxiety was the first thing I experienced when I opened my eyes in the morning, and. And it never feels good. I always say that, like, there's this portion of me that always has, like, a low. A low level of buzz that I experience. And that's just kind of what keeps me motivated and moving. But there's definitely times when that feeling of anxiety becomes almost crippling and can really hold you back. So I'm so excited to hear about how you assess what to discontinue and stepping back into the design side of things more intensely. So how. How do you assess that? What's necessary to pivot or scale back? Like, how did you get to the point of knowing that it was the design that you were missing and that it was the people management or the creative part of your job that you were no longer doing? That was really, like, the key difference maker, for sure. [00:08:44] Speaker B: So I think for me, you know, when I started the online shop, it had morphed a lot from how it started to sort of where it was when I made the decision to close it. So I started it at the beginning of the pandemic, when everyone was kind of stuck in their homes. I was in a downtown Toronto condo at the time. I was busting at the scenes with all my antique items, and I kind of said, you know, everyone needs a little something nice for their home where they're feeling a bit trapped right now. I have all this stuff. Let me do a vintage drop and bring some of the things that make me happy in my home to other people. So I think I listed, like, 50 items, and we sold out in a day. I was like, that was great. Let's do it again. So a couple months later, I built up another vintage inventory. I did it again. And that sold out right away as well. So then I started thinking, okay, well, I've seen other designers, you know, start to pivot into this retail model and start to stock some, you know, more wholesale inventory, where your resources go a little bit further, because if you're photographing that item, you might be able to sell it 20 times instead of once. Right? So I started also stocking some in stock inventory. The core was always the vintage, but, you know, we started to build and build. And eventually, you know, I got to a point where I just felt like I wasn't that passionate about what I was putting out anymore. Like, I sort of felt like I was contributing to the noise of the retail space, but not necessarily in a super meaningful way. And for me, everything I do, I want my heart and soul to be in it, and I want to be contributing to the conversation in a way that's really exciting. And I feel like where I wanted to be doing that within the design side, I didn't feel like I had that oomph to give it to the retail side anymore. And I think it really is just about listening to your gut and understanding. If you're waking up with a heavy feeling, you have to trust your passion and know that you went into business for yourself to do the things you love. And it's okay to try something and to realize that I thought I wanted this. And now that I have it, it's not feeling the best or it's not what I thought it might be, and nothing's permanent. I always say that it doesn't mean in ten years I won't have a little antique shop. It doesn't mean any of these things. So I think people get afraid of the permanency of some of these decisions, and I think you can allow yourself to, you know, let things go sometimes. [00:11:07] Speaker A: I am just a little gobsmacked right now because as I had written these questions and as I had, like, researched this topic and I knew what we were going to talk about, were friends, and we, we chat fairly regularly. I absolutely had made the assumption that your decision to scale back TLD curated had financial influence, whether the market was changing or, like, it was competing with your high end clients when you were selling, you know, more entry level antiques. And it's so interesting to hear that it really didn't necessarily have anything to do with that and that you were selling things just fine, but that it really was about missing other parts of what you wanted to do best. [00:11:55] Speaker B: So, yeah, and I think, you know, there is something to say about the economy. I'm by no means an economic specialist, but I think we've all seen, like, a slowing in the economy with interest rates and things like that. So I'm not saying that finances had no play in it, but I would definitely say the main play was how I felt, because we were kind of at this stage where I was like, we either need to hire more people for the shop, get more inventory, and really put our all into it, or we let it go. [00:12:25] Speaker A: Right? Right. [00:12:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:26] Speaker A: And I think when it comes to shop, this is just, it's such a natural progression. I know so many designers are like, should we have a little shop? I mean, we just opened a little shop in our office. Because I was like, oh, people are coming by, so we might as well have some little things. However, I think it's really poignant that, you know, your shop margins are very small and, like, the, the return on the $20 base that you ended up selling for 65 is $45. But the time that actually went into that was a lot more than that. And so I think that what feels like such a natural progression, it's. I'm so grateful for this conversation, for people to know that that is absolutely an amazing option, but it certainly is not always the natural next step for every designer. [00:13:14] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think there's no one size fits all. I mean, I really have to always check back in with myself of what does success mean to me? Because it's so easy in the social media world to say, look at that success. I admire that person. I respect that person. I want to emulate that person. And sometimes you have to check in, why do I want that? Is it for the right reasons? Is it really what's right for me? Or is it because it, like you said, feels like the next natural step? [00:13:40] Speaker A: Mm hmm. What? I want to talk a little bit more about your understanding and success, what that looks like to you, and how you kind of do gut checks throughout your career so far as to identifying what those measurements are. What, as of today, if asking you in this moment what success means to you and your vision for Tiffany Lee design, what is that? [00:14:09] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's evolving constantly. So it's a good question. But for me, I think the biggest thing is waking up feeling good. You know, I never want to be at a stage in my life where I have a ton of financial success, but I'm waking up feeling badly because it's not worth it. You know, happiness and mental health are so important. So that's a big factor of success to me. I think being able to confidently support the lifestyles of my team and their livelihoods is really important measure of success for me. And being able to. I think now, for me, success looks like maybe fewer projects, but projects of the caliber of what artistically I want to be expressing is what success looked like to me. So, you know, as opposed to maybe taking on 25 projects where they're great, but they're not, you know, that next sort of evolution of where I want to be. Maybe it's ten, but I had the time to do slow design, timeless design. I have clients who understand the process, trust the process, see the value. That, for me, is what success looks like, at least right now. [00:15:17] Speaker A: As a small business owner, it's more important than ever to ensure you're legally protected. Idco Studio teamed up with our attorney Elise to offer you professionally drafted contracts specifically for interior designers. You can head on over to www dot idcode dot studio to purchase, download, fill and the blanks, and consider yourself covered. So you mentioned, you know, you just touched on it quickly. And obviously, this is not like an economics show, but, you know, the COVID boom has definitely slowed. And people, I was just talking about this with Lindsey Borchard from Lindsey Brooke literally yesterday, that people are, clients are much more educated in interior design now, and furnishings are much more available to them than they were pre COVID. And our industry has just really become front and center. And with that, that has shifted the market. And people are a little bit slower to spend. They're a little bit shopping around more. They're. They feel like there's more competition in the industry because there's the visibility that designers have now through social media. And so I'm wondering, in the face of unexpected challenges or market shifts, how do you maintain the agility that I see you have as a business owner while ensuring stability for Tiffany Lee, design? [00:16:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I think staying small for me has been helpful in that. Right. Because when you're small, it allows you to be a bit more nimble and flexible. Well, you can be a little bit more selective, maybe, about the kind of projects you're taking on. I think at one point, our team was a little bit larger. I think at one point we were up to seven people. And for me, that payroll pressure felt really, really real to make sure that you were taking on everything, just to make sure everyone is getting paid. Now, I think that's been relieved a little bit that we're to a team of five. And I think also, and I know we're going to talk about branding a little bit later, but I think maintaining a really strong brand identity is the key to kind of attracting those clients who you want and marketing to, you know, your ideal client profile. [00:17:37] Speaker A: I have also experienced in the last two years needing to just really lean out our team. And so we've scaled back. We had at one point probably up to 22, and now we're down to, like, 16, which still definitely feels real, though. The payroll pressure definitely is real. Talk to me a little bit about how I know in your case, it was, it sounded like just two that ended up scaling back. How did you, how did you make that happen? How did you make that decision? Was it swift? And at the same time, when it came to scaling back, was it a natural progression someone got pregnant and decided to stay at home? Or was there the really, really, really painful, difficult decisions of actually letting people go? [00:18:20] Speaker B: Yeah, good question. It was kind of a catalyst of an unexpected pivot that I had to make. Basically, about a year ago, everybody working for me was independent contractor. And then as we got the office and things started to get busier, we were starting to put a lot more like parameters about how you work, when you work and that kind of thing. And my lawyer kind of said, hey, listen, if you want to make these changes in Ontario employment law, I don't know about other places, but that means these people really are employees and you have to pay them as employees and they have rights as employees and all of this stuff. That's an unexpected big change, right? Because there are financial implications to that. You have to get everybody computers, you have to get everyone their programming. They're paying into their pension, there's insurance, there's vacation pay, all these things. I was super happy with the independent contractor mode, but as the business evolved, that was a change we had to make. And in the end it was a good thing. But what we found in making that change from independent contractor to employee was that it really wasn't the best fit for everybody. I think there wasn't like a one size fits all for everyone. And what that allowed us to do was take that opportunity to kind of refine down the team and really bring people along with that change who were really excited about the change, really aligned with the change. And I always say, you know, you get where you're going fastest if everybody's kind of rowing in the same direction. So it got us to, you know, have this team now who's so strong and so connected and so supportive and we're really like a well oiled machine. So some tough conversations were had and personally, for me that's really, really difficult. But, you know, the business had to evolve and if it wasn't the right thing for some people for those changes to happen, then that that was the right time. [00:20:08] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely agree. I experienced the same thing, had to part ways with two people for the exact similar reasons. And it's the absolute worst part of having your own business. In my opinion, nothing is worse than having to let someone go or make changes that no longer suit what they're looking for. But I do feel like in hindsight, our team has become so much stronger because of that and it just gets everybody on the same page. So thank you so much for sharing that. So I'm curious, when we're talking about, you know, rolling back, TLD curated or you stepping back into really designing and creative director role instead of just like running the business in a CEO role, how do you communicate changes or adjustments in your business strategy to your team? And clients, honestly. And how do you ensure alignment and really buy in from all those stakeholders? [00:21:03] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. So, you know, I think that it's really key to have open communication, particularly with a small team. Like, people can tell if something is going on, right. There's really no hiding in a small office. So I think open communication, open feedback, is my biggest feedback for managing changes within your team. You don't want anything like a big surprise on anybody, right. So people know when changes are coming quite often, to be honest, my team and discussions I've had with my team and feedback I've gotten from my team are the catalysts for a lot of those changes. Right. So a lot of times I'm listening to what they're saying. We're adjusting to create the strongest team, the strongest process we can. And so I think a lot of times, for them, change is exciting because it makes them feel heard, and it makes them feel listened to, and it makes them feel like they contribute in a meaningful way to the business. And it's not just in one ear, out the other. And so I think communication is key when it comes to clients. I think clients are kind of on a need to know basis. They don't need to know everything that's changing behind the scenes in your business. And I think when they do need to know, you let them know. And hopefully you've gotten to a point where you've built up a trusting relationship with them and they know you've got it, and they know that changes are being made really to make their process better. [00:22:21] Speaker A: I am curious as to what level of transparency on a team of five you have throughout the whole team. This is something that I personally struggles, probably too strong of a word, but something I really consider by nature. I'm very open and want to share everything with my team at all times, and I'm definitely an out loud processor of information. And so what have you found to be a sweet spot for a team of five, which I think is a very relatable and attainable number of a team to so many designers listening. [00:22:58] Speaker B: Yeah. So I have a couple of, I would say, more senior members of the team who really are my go to sounding boards. So we have our marketing manager, and then we have our operations manager, and they're always kind of my first stop shop check in. Hey, what do you guys think about this? What do you think about this in terms of financials? Not everybody's privy to all the information about financials. It's really just me, my operations manager, and then my outside accounting team. And, yeah, you don't want to scare people, so you don't just want to blurt anything out and say, that's what I'm thinking, and then people get nervous. But I think, yeah, I think having a couple of, maybe people who are a little bit more senior have been with you a little bit longer, maybe have a little bit more experience with businesses other than yours, those are the people you can kind of talk to about through these decisions and have a bit of a sounding board. [00:23:46] Speaker A: I think that you have just the most polished, impressive processes. We've had the pleasure of working with your team as we redid your branding and your website, and it was the easiest, most lovely project we've ever done. Your team is so on top of it. And I'm curious as to how rigid you are to your processes and what level of flexibility plays a role in your approach to both management and also how you're handling clients. Like, are you flexible in bending your process? Or have you decided that this is our process and this is what works for us after trial and error and we really stick to it? [00:24:31] Speaker B: Right. I think flexibility is key in this industry. I think if you're unable as a designer to be flexible, then you're going to be in trouble because, you know, things, a lot of things are out of our control on a job site, right. You may think there's a cabinet going here and then it's not because there's a pipe or whatever the case. So I think flexibility, adaptability is a key, key character trait to have going into this industry. That said, I have found that when it comes to our processes in the client experience, if any time I have kind of given on certain processes, I've always come to regret it. And I think that what I hope my clients trust is that I have tried all these things before. You know, I have tried shipping products to a client's house. I have tried these, and it is just inefficient, and that is going to end up costing you more than, you know, a storage warehouse would or all of these things. So I hope that through my trial and error and processes, I can really educate the client as to why our processes are in place. And that's what I try to do. But it can be really tempting, I think, especially early on in your career, to say, okay, we can give that a try to make the client happy. Now, that said, I think a level of thought, some flexibility is inherent in sort of a luxury design sector. So, you know, with high caliber clients, they might, you know, prefer a phone call to emails, and that's something I'm happy to be flexible. They might prefer to give a retainer that we draw from monthly rather than having to pay each month on an invoice. That's something we're flexible on. So we do give these opportunities to tailor the experience for the client while still staying true to our core processes. [00:26:13] Speaker A: What about your processes as a team internally, as shifts happen? I mean, I'm sure when you decided to, you know, downsize the team and really step back into design, you probably had projects, like, in process. And so when you're making adjustments to your processes within your team, how is that communicated? And, like, how. How fluid is your team in receiving that and just being really on it about, like, okay, this is the new process and we're pivoting. Or is it like you phase out old process on this project that's currently in progress, and the new process starts with this new inquiry? [00:26:53] Speaker B: Yeah. So typically, we'll phase out with current clients, just that the client isn't getting, like, jostled mid projects, you know, but we're, like I said, we're always evolving. So, yeah, we find out something that might work better, we try it on the next project. My team is super adaptable. It goes back to kind of my discussion about everyone whose peers really aligned, and everybody who is here has adaptability, that skill we look for in the interviewing process. And I think that everybody here also knows that we are a young, small company, and so changes are inevitable. You know, if you're looking for a super established, serious design company, we. I mean, we're serious, but, you know, you know, if you're looking for somebody who's been in the business for 30 years and had everything locked and isn't willing to change, it's not us. And I think change is so important because the industry is changing every day. And so if you stay too stagnant, I think you might fall behind. [00:27:50] Speaker A: Agreed. Completely. Okay, so you mentioned this quickly at the top of the show, and I'd love to bring it back up again, especially as we are kind of on this. COVID, come down. How. How do you personally balance this desire for growth and expansion with the need to maintain financial stability and operational efficiency within the company? It's just like during, you know, in the last four years, everybody has a book, and everybody got a show. Everybody. It just felt like so many people were high profile in this industry really quickly, and you can definitely feel this sense of urgency and also a feeling of possibly like you're behind. And so now that you've pivoted and kind of got your feet just sturdily under you, how are you balancing that now? [00:28:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's important to, again, always go back to asking yourself, why do I want this? Right? I desire a lot of things for the business and I'm an ideas person. And so you have to kind of say, okay, first step is why do I want this? Do I want this for the right reasons or do I want this because, yeah, I'm seeing it happen to other people. And then also meeting from the financial side of things, you meet with your finance team, you meet with your accounting team, and you figure out what's possible and you can set dates and you can set goals and you can say, okay, I'd love to. You know, one of my dreams is to renovate like a little cabin and call it the TLD cabin and have people be able to rent and stay there and experience the TLD home without necessarily needing to hire us to do their house. Then that's a goal. And, you know, I've sat down with my accounting team and I've said, okay, what does this look like? And when do we think this is possible? And we've set parameters around that. And I think you just have to be realistic with where you're at. And sometimes I think it's okay to take a risk. You know, sometimes you have to put your money on the line and say, this is what I want, I believe in this and I'm going to go for it. And, you know, just roll the dice because, you know, even if you fail, in my opinion, failure really is a measure of success. I don't think you can be a successful person if you've never failed, because it means you're not pushing yourself. And so I think sometimes you learn so much and if it's something you're super passionate about, give a call. [00:30:16] Speaker A: I always say that the only people who remember that you launched, tried, did something that you didn't continue doing that someone might have called, failed at. The only person who remembers that even happened is you. And so all that anybody else sees is that, wow, they're pushing, they're moving, they're going forward, they're doing so much and they're just so passionate about what they do. And so I completely agree that trying something and it not working out is, is just getting you in a better place than you were before. [00:30:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, you know, you have to bet on yourself sometimes. You have to believe in yourself. And so sometimes even if the finances. I mean, I don't know if this is great. My accountant might not say this is the best advice, but sometimes you have to say, I'm going to invest in this, and I'm going to put the money in, and I'm going to hope I see it back. And I think if it is something you really believe in and you are really passionate about, people can really feel that and it comes back to you. [00:31:13] Speaker A: So, speaking of finances, I'd love to get into that a little bit. I'd love to hear some strategies that you have learned with your finance team or just through experience for effectively managing cash flow and expenses during those periods of transition or adjustment in your business, whether that's transition in the market and just like a change in the number of inquiries you're seeing, or it's a transition to, you know, like. Like you said, housing rates are really high right now, so maybe it's more remodels and less new builds or any sort of transitions in there. How have you begun to prepare for those moments of change? [00:31:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I think as a creative person, you know, cash flow, I wouldn't say, is my number one strength. If I could spend all the money, I would. And luckily, I have a team behind me who is really strong in those assets. Right. So I always say, if you are not strong in one party business, hired out. So we have our operations manager, who kind of looks at the data to day in house. We have our accounting and our bookkeeping team, third party, and we meet quarterly. We sit down, we look at the numbers, we say, okay, what's going well? What's not, where can we shift? I just think it's kind of a constant check in, to be honest, I never used to do that, probably for the first, like, three years in my business, because that COVID boom, that bank account, was just growing, growing. And I said, great, as long as numbers are going up. But now that there is a bit of a slow, we have to take a look because there are still things we really want to do. You know, right now, we're thinking about what we are in the process of doing a little refresh to our studio space, and that costs money. So you have to sit, you have to say, what does this look like, what's possible? And make decisions from there. So I think it's really about relying on a really solid team. And then something else that we've done to prepare for this kind of slowdown is really shift our marketing messaging to really kind of try and target that caliber of client where maybe shifts in the economy aren't as impactful on their bottom line. So we're starting really to push for, you know, clients who want the natural marble materials, the natural wood, all of these things that, you know, are a little bit elevated and are kind of that next phase for us. So it's been a marketing shift, but it's also been me being more like involved in the what square with the finances with my team. [00:33:35] Speaker A: Ansax has always been known for their premium stone, and coming soon, they are coming out with new stone furniture collections and bathroom consoles carved out of a single block of premium marble. Sign up for ansax [email protected] to be the first to see the new collections as they launch in June. So as we talk about what's going into your finances, I try to ask everybody this question I forgot to ask you. Let's get it out there. How do you charge? Is it hourly, flat rate, a combination of any sorts? [00:34:09] Speaker B: Yeah, we're hourly. I've always been hourly, even when I worked for previous firms. So for me it comes very naturally. Last year I thought I might dabble in the flat fee game and I found it was not great. It was, it's a hard, it's really hard to effectively nail that because the projects are so unpredictable and things are so, you know, there are so many factors outside of your control. Maybe the client has hired a contractor who needs a lot more support than you're used to with some of the other builders you worked with and you didn't account for that or whatever the case may be. So we're hourly and I'm happy there. I always am kind of thinking about, you know, what that could look like in the future. But for now, that's where we're at. [00:34:53] Speaker A: So that makes total sense. Your hourly throughout the whole project, from design to implementation, all the way to install day. I'm curious as to what other avenues in your design business is there room for revenue? And so this is something we're talking about a lot next week at design camp, but we talk about hourly. But I really want us just as an industry, women in particular, to be thinking about. There's so many other places in this process that you can be scaling your revenue without increasing, increasing your hourly rate. And I think we definitely get to a point in any region, city that you get you max out your hourly rate. Like, you can't just keep increasing that number. And so just a couple of quick ideas. It's like procurement fees or marking up shipping and receiving those sort of things. Can you talk to me about any of those other places that you've learned that you can drive more revenue without necessarily taking on more work or increasing those hourly fees? [00:35:56] Speaker B: Yes. So procurement, definitely, I should have said this. Procurement for us is a separate fee, so we don't charge hourly for our procurement process. We charge a percentage on goods, so I think it's 15%, but on the goods that are purchased for the project. And it also, we have, like, a markup structure built into those goods with our trade discount that we. We share a little bit of that discount with the client, but we also make commission on the products sold. So those are two ways. And then other revenue streams that we have include, you know, affiliate programs and things like that. Outside of the client dynamic. [00:36:34] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So when I want to get into the nitty gritty of you stepping back into design and being really client facing and what that relationship looks like. So as you were prioritizing what aspects of your business to focus on when scaling back, how did you ensure that all those other essential functions that you were doing when you were people managing are still happening if you've stepped back into this other role? [00:37:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I think part of it was letting some things go, like I said. So, for example, the shop was a big, you know, it takes a lot of your resources. So that freed up a lot of our resources, kind of put back into our clients and our processes and our management. But I think, yeah, it's important to protect kind of that core of the business. Right. All those other things are really fun. I say it's kind of like gravy. I love gravy, but it's not the meat and potatoes. Right. So you have to protect the sustenance, the meat and the potatoes. That's the thing to protect at all costs. And then the trimmings are just extra, which is great. But I think having a really strong team, having a team that when these shifts were made, they were willing to say, hey, I'm willing to take this on so that you can do more of this. I'm willing to go here so that you can do more of that. And having a team who is excited about that and who wants to grow in their roles and not just stay at one space, who want, you know, people who really want a career out of this and not just a job, I think that's one of the key things for any pivot, is just to make sure you're surrounding yourself by the. [00:38:08] Speaker A: Best people possible when you're making that shift. And I've had to. My team will be the first to say, like, our job description changes on a weekly basis, but when you do have fewer bodies and that role, that role, those jobs and tasks need to be absorbed by other people. As the business owner, the leader, you know, part of it's a financial decision to let those people go. How do you compensate your team? Or how do you have the conversations to say, now these tasks are now divided amongst us? Is it something that you're like, hey, maybe we'll work up to a bonus structure with that? Is that like, okay, we're going to do a universal 5% pay increase. Is there, is there something that happened to just be putting more work onto a smaller team? [00:39:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So there's financial, you know, compensation for things like that. Things like raises are discussed every spring at our firm, and then there's also the discussion of, okay, how is your plate, if you put this on your plate, is there something that we can remove? Like, is there something that's no longer serving us? So it's never about, you know, just more, more. It's about this balance of, you know, for example, our marketing team, once they no longer had to market and promote the shop, that freed up a lot of their time, then ship that marketing to the client focus like I was talking about. So it's kind of this teeter totter balance of figuring out what is the right thing for everyone without causing burnout. And that's just about a constant check in and chat. [00:39:47] Speaker A: So when you, I guess I should clarify. Before, when you were feeling that level of anxiety and managing the shop as well, were you still the person who was presenting every design presentation? [00:40:01] Speaker B: Yes, I was. Yes. I never really was fully out of the design. I just wasn't as into the day to day. I just wasn't as present as I think I want to be for my clients. [00:40:13] Speaker A: So talk to us about what a day in the life for Tiffany looks like now, being really focused and present with your clients and also your team as they're designing. Walk us through that. [00:40:28] Speaker B: Yeah. So every day is different, and I definitely have days that are reserved for marketing, and I have days that are reserved for the expert, because I am on the expert, which is really exciting. So that's, you know, a big part of my week. But on design days, I come in, maybe we go outsourcing. Me and a senior designer, we will sit and scheme. We will. I don't do the cad drawings anymore, but, you know, I'll sketch things out, and then the team takes it away and does the drawings, then revising. And really it's about, you know, me developing a really strong relationship with our clients. I think that's kind of the key because then there are these moments where I can say, you know, our client mentioned that they love x, and then we make sure that somehow it's incorporated into the design. And I think when you're, when you're not totally present with somebody while you're speaking to them, you can miss out on those little details and those little opportunities to make somebody feel seen and heard and listened to. And I think that's really, in any service industry, no matter what you're doing is the goal is to make people feel seen and heard and taken care. [00:41:34] Speaker A: Of on your team. You're the one presenting. Are you the point of contact that the client has directly? So anytime any communication's going back and forth, does that go to you or does that go to someone else on the team? [00:41:48] Speaker B: Majority of correspondence goes to another designer on the team, but I'm always on the email, so they know that I'm there seeing things, but I, you know, I'm slower to respond than somebody else on their team might be or, you know, because I have a hand in every project. That kind of lead designer on their team can have a better, you know, input quicker than I can sometimes. So I'm there, but their lead communication point is someone else for that day to day email, like a weekly update would come from me, for example. [00:42:21] Speaker A: Right. How do you, how do you communicate that client experience to a client up front to kind of set that boundary that I am hyper involved in this project, but in order to keep the project moving forward expeditiously and, and properly, you have a lead designer on your team who is the point person, but know that everything is always going through me. Like, how do you set that expectation, especially for someone who is so much the face of your firm? Firm? I know so many people can come to you and expect that they're working with you and, like, they're having, you know, shopping trips with you and they're having lunch brainstorm sessions with you. How are you delivering that level of client of service without doing all of those things which I know just physically aren't possible? [00:43:09] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just a conversation, really. I find it's just about open communication, same as I do with my team, but with the client to say, you know, I'm here, but your weekly updates are going to come from this person. You know, if there's ever a problem, you can reach out to me. Absolutely. Or reach out to them and they'll get in touch with me. I'll get in touch with you. So typically, you know, when I notice if a client's feeling uneasy about something, like, it will be me on the call just to say, I'm here, what's going on? Let's fix this, you know, and I'm there for every client meeting. I'm there for every presentation. So it's. I think it's just. Yeah, it's about communicating it. [00:43:47] Speaker A: Great. And as you've stepped into this kind of next tier, next caliber of project, that feels really good for your clients. [00:43:55] Speaker B: It does. It feels really good for. For my clients. I think people, like you said, they. They're coming to the firm. I am a face to the business, so they do have an expectation that I'll be there. And I'm super happy to be there. It makes me. It lights my fire. You know, I think one of my big touch points of how I design is through memory and really understanding clients memories. So one of our questions on our questionnaire is, you know, can you please describe something from your childhood that feels like home to you? Whether it be like a window from your childhood home or like something smell at your grandma's house, whatever it may be like, just what is a memory relating to home for you as a child? And then we take that and say, okay, how can we interpret that into their home today? It's all these little things, and I think it. It. If you want to do that, you have to. You have to be there. [00:44:45] Speaker A: So I'd love to pivot just a little bit to discuss the importance of maintaining a strong brand identity and reputation, especially during those times of transition and change. Because for a relatively younger business, you just have such a clear viewpoint. You always have. I feel like I have been watching you since 2019, like, right off the bat, and I think you're just an expert in this, so talk to us about how you do it and why it's a priority for you. [00:45:18] Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, as you know, we just finished our rebrand with you guys, and you did such an amazing job with our website and our new coloring and our new branding and, you know, the visuals and all of that, the messaging, it's all one part of having a strong brand identity. I think launching that, particularly launching that shortly after closing TLD curated was quite a powerful statement that I felt like I was really doubling down on the messaging of, look, we're here. We're here to design. This is what we're passionate about. And I think the key is that you have to have a strong reason behind your brand. So you have to understand your client profile. You have to understand the story that you're trying to tell and who you're really speaking to, because if you're speaking to everyone, you're kind of speaking to nobody. So understanding who it is you're talking to. I think consistency. Consistency helps to build trust. I am very much the face of my brand. I'm showing up as myself, but I'm also showing up as Tiffany Lee, the designer. And, you know, as authentic as that is, there are parts of my life I don't share, and there are parts of my life I do. And it helps to build that trust. You know, usually when I go to a client consultation, people are asking, oh, how's Luke? And that's my partner, that's Kenobi, and that's my dog. And, you know, people feel like they know me. I think sometimes in this world where there are so many talented designers doing so many beautiful projects and you have access to see them all on social media, it's a connection that can maybe set you apart or land you that job. And I think that's really important. And, I mean, social media and branding has been huge for my business. I feel like every big projects we have landed, if it hasn't come directly from Instagram, it has, you know, led referrals to our Instagram. And they've said, you know, the thing that convinced me was that Instagram presence. And so it's a lot of work. I do a lot of mentoring calls, and people say it's a lot of work. And yes, it absolutely is a lot of work, but it can pay off in a big way. [00:47:20] Speaker A: How do you ensure that your team remains, like, excited and motivated during these. These phases of transition and not feel worried or overwhelmed and, like, questioning their role in the company? How do you foster a culture of resilience and adaptability? [00:47:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's about, you know, support, encouragement, affirming one another. It is about having that open dialogue so people can. If they. If anyone's ever feeling uneasy about anything, my door is open. Come speak to me. Don't let that foster. Don't let that build, because I guarantee I can talk to you about it and make you feel better about it. I want everybody here to feel really, really good about being here. And like I said, a lot of times the changes are sort of spawned by their feedback, which makes it more of a positive thing. I think a lot of times it generates some excitement around change rather than fear around change. And we do a lot of things to stay inspired and motivated. Every Monday we have our morning meeting and we have some Monday musing, which is where they share something that's inspiring them right now, whether it's a business or it's, you know, some, some picture they saw. We have a really extensive library in our office where it seems like every week we're getting a new design book and people can, you know, take those out, take those home, read them, get inspired. So these are little things that we do to a foster a nice bonding experience, but also keep everyone feeling excited and feeling refreshed about, you know, what's going on in business and in design. [00:48:57] Speaker A: One thing I've found with our own team is that the people that are attracted to work at companies in this industry, companies like ours, they really love the diversity in their day to day, and they have an entrepreneurial spirit in themselves, even if they aren't wanting to have their own business. And I think that that is a really critical thing to look for if you are planning to keep a dynamic, smaller studio, honestly, and even as you scale to, you know, having, you know, 20 to 30 employees. But I think that you've just done such a amazing job of having everyone on your team be such a direct, wonderful representation of who you are and who Tiffany Lee design is, while also having their own ideas and contributions to what is happening. And I think that that's a really difficult thing to master. And you've done it really beautifully. [00:49:57] Speaker B: Thank you so much. Yeah, I never just want to be, you know, the buck. I mean, the buck does stop with me in some ways, but I don't want it to be like it's only me making the decision, because that's a lonely place to be as a business owner as well. Right. So I think if you can really trust your team and ask their advice and value their opinions, that's key, because if you don't value their opinions, then there's no point in them being there. Right. You want people whose opinion really, you really value. [00:50:25] Speaker A: We talked about this a little bit at the beginning of the show, and as we've kind of hashed out all of these different concepts, I'd love to bring it up one more time. What key performance indicators do you track to evaluate the effectiveness of your strategies? So we've talked about how you decide to make these changes, but then what are you looking for? I mean, obviously, you can be like, sales. This has gone up. That's obviously a key indicator. But what other items are you looking at to say that this was a good choice? [00:50:55] Speaker B: Yeah. So, yes, we're looking at the metrics, we're looking at the finances of those decisions. We're saying, you know, is this profitable or is this creating a loss? That's important. I think that's super important. Another big one is how I feel. Right. We've talked about this, how I feel, how the team is feeling. Like, is there an uneasiness in the office, or is everyone really, you know, when that magic is happening in the office, you come in, everyone's buzzing. There's an excitement. There's the level of enthusiasm that's really contagious. And that, to me, having that is super exciting. That's such a strong indicator that things are going the right way. And then another big one is client inquiries, client intake. What are the inquiries? Are they the type of inquiries we're hoping to get? How many of them are we getting? How closely do they match our ideal client profile? We actually, in the past two weeks, have just signed our three biggest projects ever. So for me, that is such a, that's such a sign that everything we went through last year is, you know, it's the decisions we made. We are seeing, seeing the reward of those decisions, and it's working, and that's really, really encouraging. [00:52:06] Speaker A: Well, congratulations. That's so exciting. It means that we did our job on our end. Exactly. [00:52:12] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:52:13] Speaker A: I'm just so excited to see those projects come to life. I know we'll have to wait a bit, but congratulations. That's so exciting. So, looking ahead, we have three killer projects getting signed on. But what are your plans for the future of the company now that you've made these pivots? And how do you envision navigating future opportunities in the years to come? [00:52:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I think now I've learned the lesson of really staying true to that, guiding the light of, you know, making sure that we're serving the clients the best we possibly can. We're always challenging ourselves to be better. We are improving as designers every day. We're creating these meaningful spaces for people. So I think now I know that will always be kind of my guiding light moving forward and kind of my baseline. But I'm very excited. I'm very excited about everything to come. I think being open to shifting, being open to opportunities is super important. We have some really exciting things kind of wrapping up. We're doing a historic inn, which I'm super excited about. We have a large cottage build. I am going to be doing another collaboration with tech bedding, which is exciting. We just launched one blanket. It did really well. So we're going to be releasing something else with them. I'm super excited about. Luke and I are planning potentially a TLB Lake house renovation of our homes. There's lots of exciting things coming up and I think what I'm excited about for the future, this idea that, yeah, if I'm open to an opportunity, I can let things go or I can keep them. The world is my oyster. In some ways, as a business owner, I think you get to dictate things and I'm just. I'm so excited. You know, I would love a book one day, but who knows? [00:54:00] Speaker A: So exciting. Well, Tiffany, this has been a pleasure. Thank you for your candid conversation of what it's really like having a business. I appreciate so much that you had this conversation. If you want to continue this conversation in the show notes, we will have a link to book an expert call with Tiffany. I know she's very happy to talk business with people. Tiffany, I will see you in like two weeks, so I can't wait. So I will see you then and we'll make sure that the show rolls out probably, I think, when we are in England together, which will be fun to celebrate. [00:54:31] Speaker B: Amazing. Well, thank you so much for having me. This was truly a pleasure and I hope, I hope everyone enjoys the show. [00:54:38] Speaker A: Absolutely. Take care. I'll see you soon. [00:54:40] Speaker B: Bye. [00:54:49] Speaker A: For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples, and more, don't forget to subscribe to the interior collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes [email protected] the interiorcollective thank you so, so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. A big, huge thank you to our production team at IDCo Studio and Quinn made as well as this season's presenting sponsor, Ansax. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DM's and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible. Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living.