[00:00:08] Speaker A: On today's episode of the interior collective, Brad Levitt, founder of AFT Construction in Arizona and host of the Brad Levitt podcast, shares his journey to leading the luxury construction industry and provides his insight into what makes the difference between a good builder and a great builder. We're digging in into the importance of collaboration between designers and builders and how designers can help facilitate that relationship. Brad doubles down on the value of pre construction meetings and page turns to ensure that everyone is on the same page, outlining exactly what should be provided to the builder every step of the way. Even deeper, we're discussing the ever elusive skill of budgeting and the division of responsibilities between designers and builders when it comes to purchasing materials and furnishings. Our conversation wraps up with technology both in the field and on social media as Brad continues to master the art of transparency and connection online. Be sure to follow Brad on Instagram construction and tune into his colt followed business podcast, the Brad Levitt podcast. As we wrap up another amazing season of the interior collective podcast, make sure to keep the convo going in our exclusive community of designers around the globe. Now on patreon.com the interiorcollective and get instant access to all of season four's useful bonus materials and prepare as we release bonus materials for every episode to date.
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[00:02:30] Speaker B: Hello, Brad, and welcome to the show. It's so good to chat with you again so soon.
[00:02:35] Speaker C: Yeah, good to see you, Anastasia.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: It was so wonderful to have you at design camp. I couldn't possibly wait. I was like, we gotta get you on the show. We gotta fit you in this season. I was like, how's tomorrow? And you were amazing. And you were like, no problem.
[00:02:48] Speaker C: Well, sometimes we're lucky. My schedule's not always that way, but this time lined up so well.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: Thank you so much for squeezing us in. We have a lot to cover in a short amount of time so let's go ahead and dig in. Before I start firing off questions, tell us about what you do, tell us about aft, how it came to be and then we'll get into it.
[00:03:06] Speaker C: Yeah, there's probably a lot there but essentially, you know, I grew up in the trades. I, you know, in San Diego was fortunate to grow up there. It's a great place to grow up. My, my grandfather started electrical companies so I grew up working for my two uncles. You know, my grandpa passed away when I was eleven so uh, my two uncles took over but I had great experience working for them, loved the trades and went to school, did construction management up at BYU, up in Utah from San Diego and then had some opportunities. I mean this is 2005, so being recruited out of college is a good time. I mean it changed very quickly after that but at the time I'm not a fan of the cold so you know, Texas, Arizona, California, Florida were really the, you know, Vegas were kind of the markets I was looking at, had offers to all five of those states and Arizona felt like the best fit to be honest, the best company and ended up being the best decision because you know, I worked for a company for about six years and then started my company eleven years ago. So here we are.
[00:03:58] Speaker B: So you always knew that like you were going to go into building. Did you, did you think you were going to be doing something specific or did you think GC was like definitely the goal?
[00:04:07] Speaker C: That's a great question, Anastasia. I mean honestly, truth be told when I was in college I was actually going to, I had plans to go like Harvard Business School, I was going to go on to be an MBA so I was planning going to finance and trust me, accounting. That's what we have to do. I think that's probably not for this conversation but it's a huge part of what we do as business owners. But I loved it. I love the financial, I love math. But I realized that trades were for me, I mean construction and had a couple of peers doing construction management, so had a ton of success. I'm like, you know what, I know the trades. I think there's opportunity to be a GC. I figured that was better than being an electrician out in the field killing myself, you know, crawl another and an attic around her house. So, so essentially, yeah, came down and you know, aft we build luxury homes in Scottsdale, Phoenix Metro. We do commercial as well.
[00:04:49] Speaker B: And so after six years at the company that, you know, moved you after, after graduation got you into Arizona, how long after that six year mark when you left them, is that when you went and started aft or was there another stop in between?
[00:05:03] Speaker C: Yeah, that's another good question. So this is 2011. And again, I'm not going to take the whole conversation because there's a lot to this data station, but, and I know we didn't get to this at design camp, but 2011, funnily enough, again here the finance coming back. So I took the GMAT. I was accepted to grad school. I was going back to get my master's in business and I was actually going to leave the construction field because the market was not good in Phoenix at this time. There were some life altering changes, some very personal things that happened and kind of, you know, changed my life or whatever. You know, there are a lot of things happen to me, we'll just put it that way, and had to recalibrate and, you know, being a dad with some daughters and had to figure out the next step in my life. And fortunately, a former client saw something in me and believed in me and said, brad, I'm going to invest in you and, you know, I'm going to do some stuff personally, so let's do something together. And then I got my license, started aft construction with him in 2013 and he was a great mentor and, you know, bought him out not too long ago. But yeah, it's kind of a wild journey. So.
[00:06:03] Speaker B: And so now today, Aot has how many full time employees with you?
[00:06:07] Speaker C: 30.
[00:06:08] Speaker B: That's just amazing. What an incredible success story. So let's start getting into the thick of it. I know everyone's like dying to know how do I work with a builder? More importantly, how do I work with Brad specifically? Because he's the ultimate. So reflecting on your company's trajectory, did you initially focus on luxury projects? Like, did you know that was the market, that's what you got into? Or did you have to gradually transition from smaller remodels to these large scale endeavors?
[00:06:36] Speaker C: Yeah, I wish there was some shortcut. And, you know, it's kind of that saying, you know, overnight, you know, an overnight success 20 years in the making. Right. Is really the reality of this, of this business. I don't think anyone ever starts at the top, I mean, even for me. You know, I, as electrician, I've worked on these multi million dollar homes in San Diego, Rancho Santa Fe and Coronado. And La Jolla, incredible projects. And then, you know, the GCI worked for, we, fortunately for me, we did this incredible $300 million property. Right? I mean, high end luxury, you know, hotel, resort, commercial spa, wedding chapel, hair salon, you name it, with residences to live at the property and. But when I started my company, it's just like everybody else. I mean, I'm doing a patio, I'm doing a powder bathroom, doing a kitchen. I mean, Anastasia, I'm in the field kind of wearing multiple hats, doing whatever job I could get. And two things were happening, new company. And this is also 2013. So, like, the market still wasn't great in Phoenix. And so it took me, truthfully about five years before I really got into that luxury market that I had worked on as a kid and just out of college.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: That is so helpful to hear. And I appreciate you sharing that because there's so many listeners who are like, when, when is that threshold? When do you cross over from taking lots of different kinds of projects to really hitting your stride?
[00:07:53] Speaker C: What's interesting about the, you know, that timing, I mean, in fairness, there has to be some growth, too. I think, you know, doing luxury products now, we're definitely set up for that. You know, early on maybe not so much that we would have failed. So I think it's really important, too that any entrepreneur that listens to your channel, interior designer specifically, I'm guessing a lot of them that, yeah, we all want to aspire to get to this next level, but understand that there is a process to make sure that you don't get burned or you don't bring the client. I mean, there a process to this as well?
[00:08:23] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. When you were beginning your journey in the industry, how did you perceive the relationship between designers and builders and how has that evolved throughout your career?
[00:08:38] Speaker C: Yeah, that's another good question. I, it's interesting. I think industry wide, I think it's gotten much better. You know, you and I both spent a lot of time on these platforms to really be advocates of each other. I think there's still a lot of tension, to be honest, between designer and builder. It's, it's a difficult thing industry wide. That's not my perspective, as you know. I guess, truth be told, something I share at design camp, what's interesting is, you know, doing that monolithia, that project. Here I am, you know, this 25 year old kid working on this incredible project, and I had gone astray. I started making decisions that I just, I was my authority as a superintendent to do and to direct the subs and was reprimanded by my designer Beth McGee, who's here with SB design locally that I still have a project with today. And she was a huge mentor. I mean, truth be told, she called me out and said, brad, you have no authority to make decisions. You're just a builder. You execute. That's it. Like you do what I tell you to do essentially. And it was kind of shocking being 25, but what an impact that's had on my life and my career. I mean, honestly, part of the reason we had the reputation of projects and Clyde tell and you know, these amazing designers we work with are because of the admiration and respect we have for that, for that field and what they do for us.
[00:09:54] Speaker B: I think everyone listening is giving Beth a round of applause right now. Thanking her. Thanking her for checking you back when you were 25. A reminder. We should all push back a little bit when needed to. But I really want to focus this conversation on knowing what we know. How do we make this relationship the best possible relationship we can as we're all on the same team with the same end goal. So considering the importance of effective communication during the construction phase, how do you ensure that your team is aligned with the designer's vision?
[00:10:26] Speaker C: Another good question. It has to happen in Precon.
Too many times things are happening in the field. Field's chaotic. You know, Anastasia, you're making the decision. I am. It's great. We're behind a room. You know, we may have the owner of the trim company but then our superintendents in the field, maybe the system designer and then maybe the installers. And so that telephone game gets lost. Right. Things get mistranslated. I found so much value of what we do that's mandatory is not only be involved in that pre construction process with our designers and our architects, but we have to do page turns. We actually go through that design book and we have the design team to actually designed this to say, hey, Brad and aft, don't miss these points in the house. Don't miss these specific things that we designed. Here's why we did that. Here's what's meaningful to the family. And this kind of flows into the furniture package or ff and e, whatever it is. So those pacers that communications use, it has to start before we ever put a shovel on the ground.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: So that's a perfect example. You say like a designer calls out specific areas. If there's a tricky transition or anything like that in your actual construction document binder that we're handing over to you, is it something like there should literally be a post it note on those pages. Like, are there things that you should be calling out visually? Because I think that sometimes we feel like we've drawn it, we've written it. Like it's in there. How is this still not getting clearly identified? What is helpful on your end to be like, yes, this was an important thing. We know this is going to be a challenge. We want to hold your hand through this.
[00:11:57] Speaker C: Yeah, I think. I think it's multi layered. I mean, honestly, Anastasia, there's a couple really tricky scopes, let's be honest, with some specialty items. And Anastasia, the designer, may call me and say, okay, Brett, you need to hire, you know, this wood flooring company. You need to hire this wallpaper company. You need to hire this metal, you know, fabricator. They understand my vision, what we're doing here. Perfect. So we're kind of on the same page there. So that does happen. That's kind of one angle to get through it to make sure that, hey, this is a trusted associate, the designer. I'm open to that. I think, you know, again, going to the levels thing, you know, there are certain designers, as they get farther down the road, have very in depth spec books where they actually categorize, like, for us, you know, they're not only going to have the design book with the pictures and inspiration, but they're going to have detailed cad drawings, you know, elevations of floor plans, and then even a step further where they're actually separating by division, construction divisions. Like, here's your ornamental iron, you know, here's all your wooden trim work. Here's your cabinetry, here's your electrical. And so that helps us not miss it. And the page just really valuable because what that is essentially, it's like our meeting with the design team, our team, we're going through every page of the book just quickly. Our estimating team and contracting team is just, yep. Interpreting XYZ. And if we're missing something, the designer says, well, don't miss this. Don't miss this. Check this. And then we're redlining it. In fairness to Anastasia, I mean, our firm has gotten much better where everyone has iPads. We're using blue beam. We're redlining. So we have document control that probably other gcs don't, which definitely helps that process.
[00:13:20] Speaker B: Absolutely. That's so helpful. Thank you. If we take a kind of a conceptual step back, what makes you think, what really distinguishes between a good and a great contractor?
[00:13:35] Speaker C: Honestly, it's supervision. Like, I.
This has been my struggle. I mean, the reality is, as you look at aft in general, if you don't have really knowledgeable people in the field day to day running that project, you're going to struggle as a builder and any architect and designer that I've worked with where we've excelled. Right. The feedback's always been, we love your super and your coordinator that are assigned our job. Like, they get it. They're great communicators. They're designed forward. You know, they trust in the design team and they know their stuff. Right. And so they understand how to schedule, how to manage. They understand quality control when it's being installed. One of my biggest pet peeves are, I mean, I have two, right. One of them is if you don't write anything down, you're fired. Like, nothing drives me more, it makes me more frustrated than the super that's walking around saying, okay, Anastasia. Yeah, sounds good. You're telling them all this stuff and they're just like trying to memorize it. Like, they better be writing that down. So that's number one. And really, the second thing is it's just that lack of communication and quality and not focusing on. So, like, when tiles being installed, if it's wrong, catch it right. You catch it in the act as opposed to waiting till it's done and then coming back trying to fix it just to hit a schedule. So, you know, those are definitely some key points. It's really the talent who you have in the field.
[00:14:52] Speaker B: Um, one thing I really learned from you that I think a lot of designers haven't had the privilege of experiencing it is their GC having a super on site every single day. And I know to you that just feels like so basic, like the most fundamental level. But so many gcs are in handling things themselves, or they've got, you know, twelve projects and they're the one who's going around. So what would you say are some critical red flags that designers and clients should be mindful of when reviewing bids from contractors?
[00:15:22] Speaker C: Okay, I, there's a couple of things before I answer that do want to hit on this point you made is about the superintendents. And this is something that I spend a lot of time in our area of contractors to, like, work with them.
And maybe this is a pain point or value add for designers as they're looking. How can they collaborate with, with builders? Too many builders, right. They die of indigestion as opposed to starvation. Right. They take on too much. They don't have enough staff, they don't have enough organization. And the reality is, for builders, they undercut themselves. Right. It's a market where we're bidding a lot of times until you build a name for yourself, right. You're bidding, it's very competitive. So those margins tend to become small. So the way to do that is have less super vision and then you can have more jobs, make more profit margin, whatever it is.
We're really cutting the customer out short. We're cutting the design team out short by not staffing these projects properly to manage them, how they should be run. And really the client has to understand that, hey, if I'm going to invest in a designer, that is a luxury upgrade, right. That I can afford a designer, but the value add is I'm going to have a home that's going to sell for more value. I'm going to come home and be inspired. When I'm in my house, I'm even motivated. It's going to be beautiful. It's going to be built faster. It's going to be built on budget. I mean, all these things are pro at. There's an investment. Same thing with a builder. Like the red flag should be, who's running my job? Are they going to be there? You know, what's the coordination process look like? What is that communication channel and going to red flags. I do the same thing with my subs. Like, I want to understand who's my point of communication, who's servicing this, who's translating the design book, who's, you know, how detailed is the desert bids they per plans and specs or do they actually have a detailed breakdown? So they know they actually took their time and understand what they're installing. So, you know, there's a lot of questions. There's a lot to break down. But, you know, those are definitely some high level touch points.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: I feel so often the interior designers end up being expected to be these supers. And so often when they're working with a contractor that doesn't have the same hierarchy and supervision that aft does, so often it's the designer's job to be making those weekly site visits to check in on the trades and making sure that the tile is going incorrectly. How, how do you advise we talk to our clients and explain how important it is that their GC has a superintendent and how it really, that responsibility does not fall on us? Like from even a legality standpoint.
[00:17:49] Speaker C: I love it. And here's my example on the other side. I have clients who reach out to me, and this just happened recently. Recently Anastasia client reaches out and says, brad, I want you to be my builder. I'm not hiring a designer because I know what I want and I say, great, my fee is going to go up 150 grand. And they're like, what?
And I'm like, yeah, if you want to hire me without a designer, 150 grand. Because now I'm the designer, I have to do the CaD drawings and I have to sell the value of my designer and everything they bring to the table for me to make this project successful. And I have a policy. I'm not going to work with you if you don't have a designer.
Either you're paying me and I'm going to hire my own designer or you're going to hire one. Like, it's pretty simple. For the designer, it's the same thing. Either the client is going to bring you in as a designer. If you're having to be the superintendent, then you're being paid for. You're going to be paid five grand a month, ten grand a month, whatever it is, to manage this job like it should be done so it's done right, or the client's going to understand the value and hire a contractor that get a manager job and pay them for it. So it kind of goes both ways, that they have to understand why and the value. So there's an investment, but it always prevents costs in the long run and time, which is so important to all of us.
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[00:19:20] Speaker B: I think one of the biggest fears designers have is they're like, okay, I'm going to push back. I'm going to say that either it's going to cost them this much to have us managing this, or they're going to have to put that money towards a GC that's going to, you know, have a super on site. And their fear is, well, then our furnishing budget just got totally cut because now they're like, well, we got to do the construction. You're saying that's the only way you get to do the construction? And now they're like, okay, well, there's that 250 you were going to get to furnish this house. And so as you started getting bigger and bigger projects in your career, how did you help to navigate expressing the value of finding that additional budget in order to do the project start to finish, holistically.
[00:20:06] Speaker C: Yeah, and that one's tricky. I mean, I. You know, I'm not gonna lie. I think budgets are ever changing. They're, you know, even on the upper end, there's still budget, there's still comfort that the clients willing to spend. And so there's always some massaging to work through. The cost to build a home. And the reality is, you're building a custom home. It's. It's much more expensive than buying a production home or something that's already designed. So when you're doing a one off, it is one off for a reason. And there's art. You know, there's design, there's creativity, and there's a cost for that. The clients have to understand the value side of it. But I think, more importantly, to the point of that, NSAJ, I think furniture is a huge point. I mean. I mean, honestly, every client of ours should be furniture in their home. They should be doing it right. They should be making that investment. You know, it's selling them that value. But at that same point, there's a budget. So that's where, at Precon, what should happen is, this is why the builders, you know, that triangle you should have builder, designer, architect from day one. And the client can understand that. Hey, if we can design a house to still meet our needs and hit this budget now, we still have that 200 grand or 800 grand or whatever that is for furniture and ff and e and window coverings and all the fun stuff that goes in to make it look right. And the only way that's gonna happen is at Precon. And so, yeah, if there is a cost to manage it, whether the designers charge a monthly to supervise it or the builder, okay, then maybe we're not doing as nice of an arrange, but we're doing, you know, a nice sectional that we really need to live in.
[00:21:30] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. It's where the value engineering really comes into the project. Okay, so how do you.
How do you, as a builder, approach handling purchases between you, the designer, and the client? When do those conversations happen? I think this is particularly important because people are finding that when they've done a beautiful custom home, then that furnishings budget just keeps getting cut, because it's the last thing in there. So designers are really like, I need to make money on the tile. I need to make money on some of these harder, hard surfaces that, because they need to recoup the cost that they're possibly losing with the soft furnishings. So when is that conversation happening? And what do you feel like is the expectation for who buys what?
[00:22:15] Speaker C: Yeah, and that's a really good question. I think it's case by case, I mean every designer, this conversation's happening at Precon, where, of course, designers I've worked with in the past, it's pretty easy. We kind of know each other's, you know, I don't want to say lame, but kind of comfortable where, where they want to be and where their profitability is. But we're very collaborative. You know, if certain designers, I understand, maybe working for a minimum design fee, you know, the reality is there's a ton of hours that go into it is very labor intensive. So that's not your real margin. You know, your money maker as a designer, if it's creeping into the furniture line, that's really where they're making their feedback, and we got to be sensitive to that. And so I'm always cautious in a couple ways. One is that with our designers, there's low hanging fruit, right. Low light fixtures, wallpaper, cabinet hardware. There's things that, in my opinion, they, I'm happy that they supply mirrors, you know, that they're supplying or they're billing me, and then I'm getting reimbursed and they're running through me. Um, but it, it's really protective to the designer because there's not a whole lot that can go wrong realistically. It's always a little sensitive when you start getting into tile or countertops or plumbing fixtures, because now designers are on the hook. And I could spend a lot of time about probably that risk there. But maybe there's a happy medium, too, where, because I think where the designers struggle a little bit is they're like, well, if I mark up my plumbing fixtures right, and the builder's putting it in his budget, he's doing cost plus, possibly. So it's getting essentially double dip. But where I push back a little bit on that is that, let's take light fixtures as example. Plumbing fixtures, the same thing. I'm still buying. If I'm not buying plumbing fixtures through the designer, I'm probably buying it through my plumber. My plumbers get them wholesale. He's marking them up because he has to care. Covered warranty, missing parts, you know, putting them in, taking them out. And so what? Wherever I'm buying this retail, there's still a cost with margin in there. And, yes, I'm warrantying it. So I don't think we're taking a disadvantage of our clients. There's a service, there's risk associated. Those are all parts of it.
[00:24:13] Speaker B: So can you explain just a little bit more detail, the solution you had where I am buying the lighting, and then I'm actually billing it back to you. Talk to me about where that thing fits.
[00:24:25] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think one of that's probably the easiest solution for designers is a lot of my designers on certain projects will be like, hey, Brad, I want to purchase the light fixtures or the mirrors or in some cases, the wood flooring has happened. And they're like, brad, you need to carry 60 grand for flooring, 120 grand for lighting. And so they're billing me just like any vendor. If I'm going to any lighting store, they're going to, I'm going to have a budget, I have a bid out. And so that's another alternative where the designer now is just billing me, I'm paying them. And so that's kind of a easy, an easy connection where now the designer's not really fighting the builder to say, oh, I'm going to lose my markup, you know, and the designer still needs to make theirs. So it's kind of a happy medium there.
[00:25:06] Speaker B: Okay, that's so helpful. Thank you. Thank you very much, Brad. Okay, let's talk about project management and kind of get more into the tech side of things. What strategies or tools do you use to ensure smooth coordination amongst your team, the designers and the clients? I know you mentioned one earlier that kind of sets you apart from a lot of other builders, but let's just kind of go through the list of what someone could expect, tech wise, for communication with you.
[00:25:31] Speaker C: Yeah, there's, there's a few. So every Friday, we have a weekly video, and this is, you know, two minute video that my super does. And we have the design team, the architectural team, the clients, and our team. Now, there's probably 15 people on this text thread, and we're doing an update. Here's a two minute video of a full visual of what took place. And here's what's up coming over next couple of weeks. So, so they're in tune, communicating every week. The second thing is, you know, we're using build a trend. So build a trend software. It's fully integrated, you know, design books. We have QR codes, right? So I posted some videos over the weekend walking a project and showing the QR codes, and I had to put a little finger so people couldn't scan it. But I. We have QR codes on all of our projects that are live up to date of our designers and what they're you know, because in two things, you have the architecture plans and the design book. Design book always takes precedence. So we're always going to focus on that and make sure that's most up to date on our QR codes, and that's to build a trend builder. Trend has our financials, it has our schedules, it has our to do list. It has, again, the design docs and specs and cabinet drawings, and you name it. And then also blue beam. So every super has an iPad in the field. All of them. They're all trained. We call it their super satchel, like their Indiana Jones super satchel and its requirement. They have it on. So they have their iPad chars and then they have their measuring tape and their level on their marker and everything else they need as a super. But the benefit of these iPads is that with Bluebeam, we can actually take the design drawings, we can redline them. So as we're walking in the field with any of our designers, we're making updates and they're live. And again, that ties into build a trend and the QR codes.
[00:27:02] Speaker B: You said that within buildertrend you can see budgets and all of those things are there, like privacy settings so that the client can't see X, Y, and z or the designer can't see x, y, and z. Like, should the designers be able to see the construction budgets and everything that's happening? How transparent are you with your team and your designers? And what should designers really be expecting from their contractors?
[00:27:26] Speaker C: It's a really good question. I'll answer the last point of that at the end. But we're very transparent. I mean, that's changed. It probably wasn't always the way. It was pretty painful when we're doing lump sum, and there were a couple of designers that got frustrated. And I remember going back thinking, there's a better way to do this. And so we've strictly moved to cost plus for a lot of reasons. We found what the clientele work, and it's very beneficial. They know, they're very clear how we're paid as a contractor. They're very clear what the cost of the project is. So being that transparent, I have no issue that my owners, designers have full access to all of them. I have no issue with it. Right. That's the relationship we have. There are privacy settings, though, like through buildertrend, you can have an owner portal. So, and here's why that's important, is I tell my clients we have daily logs. And essentially what that means is every day we're tracking what manpower's on site, what tasks were completed, how many people were there, the weather delays.
We tell our team, we want you to be honest, like, if the owner had access to those daily logs, everything's going to be, oh, it's great. We have five people. Everything went great. Right? We want them saying, nope. So and so said they'd show up. They didn't. They promised, they canceled. We had a water leak. Whatever it is that protects us from legal thing in the future, that if there is something that comes up, we have that information. So for the privacy, I tell my, we tell our clients we're uniform, we keep our daily logs. We're happy to go through those, you know, with you filtered or, but you're not going to have those access day to day. That's what those weekly Friday videos are for. So there are privacy settings. And going back to what a designer should expect as a contractor, again, it just depends on, oh, I think there's levels. The sophistication of the builder, you know, whether they're cost plus or lump sum. I think in fairness to the designer, the reason I do like cost plus is because when designers are making changes or upgrades, they really need to understand what that costs and how that implicates other decisions or materials or furniture. So that's why we move to it, because it just seems to be more collaborative.
[00:29:20] Speaker B: Absolutely. And so same goes. I mean, designers understand that it's the same, like when a client wants to change something and they're like, okay, if we're making that shift, there's the design hours, there's all the materials that change. Like, it is a domino effect. So that makes great sense. I'd like to talk about the bidding process and where that happens, because so many designers, clients are coming to the designer before they come to a builder. And a lot of cases, I know that's not the case for you because you have such an incredible reputation and people are knocking on your door before they ever find designer. But from your perspective, what tools or documents should designers be providing to their builder to get accurate bids so that they can start to value engineer the project and figure out what's got to come down so that we have the money for this?
[00:30:08] Speaker C: I do love, I think every designer to really, you know, you're going to have different levels, right? But if they're sophisticated in CAD, right, where they're actually providing dimension drawings, oh, it's just so valuable. If I, if I know showerhead heights and I know termination details for backsplashes and, and every designer I mean, honestly, so many of them are so sophisticated, even with cabinetry, they know where pullouts are and drawers are going to be. If, you know, if an island's all drawers as opposed to, you know, all doors, that's a substantial cost difference. So, you know, the more designer can really understand even cabinetry and termination points, it allows us to get very competitive bids where there's not scope gaps. Like, scope gaps are where you have issues and people either make assumptions and they inflate it or they underbid it and then they don't have the money for it. So the more particular and the more specific we can be as a design team or as a design community, the more accurate the bids will be because it allows me as a builder now to reinforce that and say, hey, look at the designer. It's very clear where this tile is finished. It's very clear the height of the showerhead and the height of this ceiling fixture. Like, we have 20 foot ceilings. And this, you know, decorative chandelier is only 8ft and a client wanted it 10ft down. Like, where's the extra chain? Like, that's on you. That's not the designer. So that's where these things really are helpful.
[00:31:27] Speaker B: I'd love to talk about maintaining budget discipline and how vital that is during construction. What proactive measurements can we be taking as designers to help remedy or soften all of the unexpected things that happen during construction?
[00:31:46] Speaker C: Yeah, that one's such a great question. It's so challenging. This goes back to involvement. I mean, you, there's no way, there's no way a home can be done within budget if you don't have all the parties together. It just, it just has to happen. And, and really, there has to be so much collaboration between, you know, I find that most of our collaboration is with the design team as opposed to the architect. I mean, for the most part, we have to make sure that there's certain architectural things that aren't going off track. But for the most parts with design, you know, really working through very thoughtfully where the clients want to put their money, if it's the master bedroom and kitchen, and then, okay, how do we break this down? How do we have not just a general, okay, Anastasia, you have 200 grand for flooring. Okay, well, what does that mean to me? Like, as a designer? Okay, you have, you know, $80 a square foot for laundry. Okay, you know, I could work with that. And then, you know, on the master bath, maybe you're at 35, and then the rest of the house, we're at like 15. Okay, well, then, you know, I can work within those measurements and my appliance budgets, 55,000. Okay. You know, I'm just throwing out some numbers with common projects we have, but, you know, at least, you know, there's a frame of reference. So as the designers now are picking, they kind of have a good idea with it where they land. So they're not over designing or wasting their time either way, have to come back and redesign it because of value engineering.
[00:32:52] Speaker B: I totally hear you and understand that, like, the more detail we can give the builder to get those, those budgets and that initial bid, the better. But it just feels kind of like chicken before the egg because so many designers are like, well, my clients don't even know if they want to move forward until they know it's going to even how much it's going to cost. And so, like, what is that level of detail? That's a reasonable amount? Or are you really working with designers who they pay flat fee or they charge a flat fee for design, design gets totally done, then it gets bidded out, and then they go from there.
[00:33:30] Speaker C: Great question. And I think here's the easier answer to that. You know, that's maybe not as complicated. What should happen is at some point early on that process, and we try to do this barely very early on, the first six weeks before we get really in this kind of down in the weeds, if you will. What should happen, Anastasia, is that designer and client should come forth and say, look, we love this project that you did aft, or we love this project that X builder did, or we love this project that's in South Carolina and we're here in Phoenix. Okay. Let's face it. You love this project. What do you love about it? Well, I love that they have white oak and they have plaster and they have, you know, full marble, like, slab walls instead of just a tile back. Okay. So you're kind of getting a feel of, like, the direction, right. And what does the architecture look like?
And without getting too much of the weeds, essentially what should happen is this house is 800 a square foot. It's 1000 a square foot. It's 500. So if we're looking at a house and say, and I could call builders or call the architect and get a frame of reference, maybe they're not going to give me their exact budget. But they say, hey, brad, we built this house and it was 700 a foot. Okay, my market, that may be 900. Well, at 6000 sqft, that's 5.4 million. So before we go anywhere, tell the clients 5.4 million, and they're going to say, great, move forward. Or they're going to say, whoa, whoa, I got, I only have 3 million. Okay, well, let's not even start designing or figuring out where logic flooring is. Let's at least get to like, you know, a comparable floor plan and layout and elevation. That's going to make sense. So there has to be some discovery there, whether it be a remodel that, hey, if they want all the bells and whistles and, you know, this is a $300,000 kitchen and they're only spending 100, don't waste your time because you know where it's going to go.
[00:35:09] Speaker B: That is so helpful. And that makes perfect sense. How are you handling fluctuations in your own prices as materials change and all of that? And that's where we see budgets can suddenly be inflated throughout the project because, you know, windows didn't get ordered until x, y, and Z time, or that flooring actually ended up being out of stock. And now we have to find something else. So how, how do we accommodate for that?
[00:35:35] Speaker C: Yeah. As far as windows order time, like, there's no way to account for ineptitude. I mean, whatever it is, you know, not ordering in time. And I'll be honest, here's kind of a, we had a project with the designer and Tao wasn't ordered. It was totally our fault. And lead time costs other things. So I had to call the designer and say, you know, Alicia, which I'm sure she'd be fine. We'll be taught her name. I say, alicia, we messed up. Like, we missed it. We didn't order it. And it was actually kind of nice because she's like, brad, do you know no one's ever called me like you should have called me. Like, we need to reselect. There's long lead time. And you're the first one to call me and say, we effed up.
And she luckily, like, was great because we admitted our fault. And she's all, let me pick something new and we'll get this squared away. But those things do happen. I mean, the reality is, even as much as we try to be as sophisticated as we are, you know, from a process side, things still get missed with as complicated these builds are.
But to your point, Anastasia, I think really what has to happen is, I think for me, the way I look at as a GC is when I, when I'm bidding, when, when we're bidding a project, there are certain scopes of work that tend to be a little open ended. It could be excavation. It could be demo. It could be drywall paint. Right? These things tend to creep in a lot of ways, so we try to have contingencies and buffers for that. We're pretty good with cabinetry or tile. Say, look, slabs. I mean, I can order the slabs. My labor doesn't change a whole lot. So we can preorder slabs, have them hand selected so that we're not dealing with that. You know, they're always, I think any designer should just look at where have I been burned in the past? And let's plan for that in these scopes. And that's what we do as builders, too.
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[email protected] so as a builder, we've.
[00:37:29] Speaker B: Handed over the final design plans. Everything's ready to go. Do you order everything for the project right at the beginning, or do you space out that ordering?
[00:37:39] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's project specific. I'd say in general, we're off to the races. You know, overall theme is the minute that client signs, we get our deposit, we're contracting everything, and we're going to start front to back, you know, because our projects are typically long build times. So excavation, masonry, you, you know, concrete, plumbing. I mean, we're. We're going. When it comes to the finishes, we're doing the same thing. Like, right now, I have a project that we were just awarded. We're just breaking ground, and I just purchased, like, 45 slaps, countertop slaps, and our fabricators get a storm. He does that for us because he wants them. So we build a client. We have them. We have them in our possession. We order all the plumbing fixtures so that we have the valves when we get to top out. I would say in general, most everything we're contracting, and the reason we do that is to price protect the client. So cabinetry we're contracting, probably paying a small deposit, getting cabinet drawing signed off, you know, windows. I mean, all that stuff's happening right away.
[00:38:33] Speaker B: I want to pivot a little bit to leadership and your role as a business owner. And I've just had such an incredible experience working with you just the few times we've met. How are you empowering your team members to maintain the high morale and high expectations that you yourself have? Like, how are you passing that along to your team and ensuring that that's what's represented on job sites as well.
[00:38:59] Speaker C: It's a really good question.
I've been obsessed with business and company culture. I think everyone should, on my podcast, I said all the time, I'm a business owner that happens to focus on construction. I think designers should say, I'm just a business owner that happens, focus on design.
At the core of that, understanding what, what drives good company culture. Right. I mean, there's, there's definitely some leadership things that we all understand as you, as a leader. If you're setting the tone for a lot of reasons. Right. Ideally, you know, you're saying the tone in a good way that people want to follow that. You know, that's probably, probably number one. But for us, I mean, we have core values. So, like, I look at who I am as a person, what's valuable to me and my company, my brain, and I want to hire people that are similar to that, that aspire to be, that they want to be part of that. You know, we have our core values that today we're gonna have our production meeting after this, Anastasia. And why don't, you know, everyone memorizes those and they get gifts form and we have fun things with them. And they, you know, each one of them, every production meeting, they'll share the, they'll do a fun sharing experience about that core value that they're assigned. But at the core, I think there's two things, really, that people need to understand is that if your employees believe in the product, so they believe in what you're producing, if they believe in aft, if they believe in this, you know, this product that we're putting out is trying to be an industry leader, whatever it is, that's number one. Right. They have to believe in what they're doing day to day. Number two, which is probably the most important, that took me the longest to understand and where I probably felt a lot as a business owner leader is, they have to clearly understand what their job role is and their job description. They have to know that there's no mix of confusion where the baton, where the baton goes in that relay race. They know exactly when they come to work. Here's what I'm accountable for. Here's what Brad expects of me. Here's what the company expects of me and my leadership team. And so if they understand their scope, if they believe in the product, well, you solve the two things now.
[00:40:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:53] Speaker C: You have core values and you have training, continuing education, and you have fun company outings and raises or bonuses, which are important. But in benefit packages. But these are all layers right to the core, the two core things that I just mentioned. And so if you can create that now, you get people that and their ideas have to be heard. So, like, for us, I think something that's fortunate about us is I think eight of my employees own their own company. So they were me. They know how hard it's run. The construction company that worked for us. And so you bring these ultra talented people.
I have no issue if, Anastasia, you came in and said, brad, you need to run it this way. Sure. Let's, let's figure this out. I have a leadership team that I counsel with and, you know, we were always willing to pivot and change.
[00:41:37] Speaker B: When you're talking about leadership and maintaining that high energy and positivity which you are so known for, I'm curious, how do you handle it when there were mistakes made? When, when a ball is dropped, how do you correct and constructively criticize and make sure that that doesn't happen again in a way that someone still feels safe to be there and to not make mistakes, but to make sure that it doesn't happen again?
[00:42:07] Speaker C: Oh, that's, that's a great question. And maybe this is probably a good example. I remember I was like 1415, maybe. And I mentioned I worked for my two uncles, right? And to put in contrast, my older uncle. So my dad has an identical twin who's, you know, they're the two, youngest of six boys. The older brother, he was tough. Like, he was really tough. And my dad's twin, you know, my dad did, he worked for the union, so I didn't work for him, but I worked for his twin brother, my uncle. And specifically, I remember 14, I put in outlets. So, like, as a kid, I'm putting in an electrical outlet and I screw it too hard and it snaps and it breaks it. And my older uncle just like yelled at me like he was so mad. Just comes in yelling at me and I, it's like first day on the job and just super sensitive. And then my second uncle came and put his arm around me and he's like, look, Brad, these things happen. Let me show you how to do it so it doesn't happen again. Right. And even at 14, I mean, it's just very instructive that, you know, here was in a really low spot that I let him down and they were upset and he put his arm around me is like, hey, here's this happens. I did the same thing right when I first started. Here's how you fix it.
And I think there's a lot of application, like the way I run it now, we've had major, I should say major, but we have had major right things that come up and what we do, Anastasia, is like, same thing. Hey, guys, like, we're going to find a solution. Like, I'm a really positive person. I think anyone that knows me knows I'm that way. I just have this outlook. And so I think as an entrepreneur and business owner, you have to be optimistic and positive in a way, but at the same time, we address it, we find a solution, we're going to problem solve, and then we take that example and I let them know, hey, Adam, we had this issue, but I'd like to bring it up to the team so we don't make it again as a company. Like, here's the context. And so there's a soft landing where we're probably not calling them out in a meeting, but we're addressing as a team to say, hey, this happened.
We didn't call in the survey. We missed the elevation survey. It can't happen again. So in our SOP, in our standard operating procedures, we're going to add a line item here. At this point of construction, make sure you call in for this survey. And so you have to bring these examples up and then make sure you have an emotional support. Right. To him and an emotional connection. Right. And then you have to make sure that you're implementing that mistake into a process so that you don't make that.
[00:44:24] Speaker B: I love that. And I think that as a fellow business owner, I can lead so often with the emotional side of it and, like making sure everybody's okay, making sure we don't do it again. But the actual action step of making sure it gets added to our process to make sure it doesn't happen again is so critical, particularly for in that possibility that it does happen again. Well, now it's been documented, we've talked about it, and that's where the next action can happen. Before I let you go, we have to talk social media. You are so fun to watch and so interesting to learn from. Talk to us about your plan. Who's doing your social, how much time gets put into it, what are you investing in it? Because I think there's a lot that we can all learn from it.
[00:45:09] Speaker C: Yeah, I think there's a lot of things with social media, I find tremendous value. I think social media is a huge broadcasting tool. It's a huge networking tool. I've seen huge benefits to the community that we built through Instagram such as yourself. Anastasia, we're talking because of social media, you know, our introduction through Lindsay. But with social media I'm really big on, I didn't know how much I love marketing or accounting, right and you see to do that as business owners. But I love it. I'm actually obsessed with it and I think that the value of social media is you can create your own brand, you can control the narrative, you can control what you want out in that space. And by intent, like I've never been soliciting by intent, I've never been calling people out or contentious. In a way it's just what separates us from everybody else. Right.
And really what I'm trying to showcase is not only that but it's like our continual push to be better every day. I know that tomorrow will be better than today and today were better than yesterday. So theres this strive to integrate new technology and integrate processes and site cleanliness. I mean one thing thats pretty cool is ive been obsessed with site cleanliness, right which is really hard to do as a builder. And our cleaning company texts me and theyre like Brad, weve been to all these projects and you guys had the cleanest project. You make our job so easy and its awesome. Like thats, I want to be known for that. Right. And so social media is a way that we can kind of market to that. And going back to your question, I do run our social media. I've done that since I started, I don't know, ten years ago I think it was I started. I still do all the posts and content and I do have a video guided to some of my videos for YouTube and a couple of the other things. But yeah, I'm posted, I'm engaging, I'm kind of so if it's, if you're dming me, it's me on the other side.
[00:46:52] Speaker B: That is so wild. I can't believe that you can fit that into your day. I'm curious how much time is, are you dedicating a day to it?
[00:47:01] Speaker C: Yeah it's, it's a good question. I mean it's probably, I'd say about an hour a day. Honestly. I mean probably spend about 8 hours a week.
I think over time you kind of learn the nuances to it and you know, you learn really what, what's working and what's not and could be pretty proficient at it so probably about 8 hours a week.
[00:47:22] Speaker B: Brad, thank you so much for your time today. This answered so many questions that are honestly the things that keep designers up at night and the things that add the most stress to their job. I think you clarified a lot as to what we can be doing to make that a better relationship and also help us have better expectations of what we should be looking for in our contract partners. If you don't know, Brad has an incredible podcast as well. Can you tell us a little bit about your show and what we can expect to hear on it?
[00:47:52] Speaker C: Yeah, I would love for anyone to come on is the Brad Levitt podcast and I've had it for four and a half years, coming up on five years now and I have an episode released in every week. You can search on any platform. It's definitely catered to conversations such as this one. Anastasia. It's all business related entrepreneurship. I've had some amazing entrepreneurs on it and I've had a ton of designers. I mean, design community could go and just go find that. All the designers I've had on that are really, some of them are just incredibly talented around the country and a lot of architects and a lot of builders, of course, and you know, just trying to build this community so well.
[00:48:24] Speaker B: Brad, thank you so much for joining me. You gave us so much of your time and energy at design camp to get to you again a week later. It's just the most generous of you. I hope we get to talk again very soon and I hope you have a great day.
[00:48:35] Speaker C: Thanks Anastasia. And again, aft construction, go find us Brad Levitt. I'll be happy to connect. So thank you.
[00:48:49] Speaker A: For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more, don't forget to subscribe to the interior collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] theatre. Interior collective thank you so, so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the.
[00:49:17] Speaker B: Honor of my career and I cannot.
[00:49:18] Speaker A: Believe I get to have these conversations. A big, huge thank you to our production team at IdCo Studio and Quinn made as well as this season's presenting sponsor, Ansax. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DM's and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible. Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the interior Collective, a podcast.
[00:49:49] Speaker B: For the business of beautiful living.
