[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Hi, welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey, and today's podcast guest is someone I've longly admired, Lisa Staten of Lisa Staten Interior Design. Based in Seattle. With deep roots in the East Coast, Lisa brings a timeless sensibility to every space she touches. But what makes this conversation so special is Lisa's perspective of two decades of running her own design firm. We're digging into what it means to evolve as a designer through economic highs and lows, through shifts in client expectations, and through the massive transformation of our industry from physical portfolios back in the day to the Instagram age. Lisa's insight is both refreshingly grounded and incredibly relevant, especially as so many of us are recalibrating what this new normal looks like after the COVID boom. We talk about staying creatively inspired in a world of algorithms that we the art of sourcing outside the digital mainstream and how to build a design career that actually lasts, whether you're just starting out or 15 years, in Lisa's perspective is a masterclass in longevity and intentionality. Let's get into it we are so.
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[00:01:52] Speaker B: If you've been listening to the Interior Collective for a while, you probably have heard all kinds of software recommendations and maybe even tried a few. But if your system still feels kind of all over the place, I totally get it. That's exactly why I wanted to share Materio that's M A T E R I O. It's an all in one platform built just for interior designers from concept to install and everything in between. You can try it for
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Hello Lisa. Welcome to the Interior Collective. I'm so honored and excited to have you here today.
[00:02:27] Speaker A: I am so excited to be here. It is such a joy. Your your podcast has always been such a resource for me and so to be a guest is pretty exciting.
[00:02:36] Speaker B: Well that's like definitely a Pinch me moment to hear that you listen to the show at all. So that's fantastic. But now you're in the hot seat and we have a lot to get through. I have so much I want to pry into and just like your immense industry wisdom.
So I think the best place start is really to understand how did you make your way into interior design, especially coming from your PR and kind of auction world background.
[00:03:02] Speaker A: Absolutely. I love that you asked this question. So just to give everyone a little context, I'm 52 years old and I've had my own firm for 21 years. And I was very much apprenticed in the business through big firms on the east coast when I was younger. And so really what's interesting to me is I have watched the trajectory of interior design become really accessible over the last, you know, 25 years of my career. And when I was growing up north of Boston, I knew people whose parents or mothers used decorators. I would say a lot of those women had husbands who had full time jobs, but they were very much paying the like bills with a capital B. And they were decorators really. And so it wasn't known to me as a really meaty career when I was growing up, certainly. And so I was lucky enough that my parents were really supportive of an undergraduate degree in art histories and architectural studies. Very liberal arts driven. I again, I grew up in the Northeast that is very populated by a lot of schools that are liberal arts schools. And, you know, most of my peer group were going to really competitive, you know, Ivy League or liberal arts schools. And so it was sort of expected of me. And I paused and thought about going to art school. And I, you know, was like, no, I want, I want to do a four year liberal arts college, not just art school. And as I maneuvered into my undergraduate year, I just absolutely fell in love with the architectural studies and art history department and really wanted to work in New York and had spent a bunch of my college years working at Sotheby's, doing Oxford gallery work, in Boston at a place called Grogan & Co. Doing auction gallery work. And when I graduated, anybody who was staying at Sotheby's in the early 90s had parents on the Upper east side and, you know, didn't have to worry about health insurance and didn't have to necessarily pay their own bills. And so I was not in that category. And I knew I wanted to move to Manhattan. And I ended up getting an internship my senior year of college at a public relations agency. And it felt adjacent to, you know, the creative component of being in an agency and doing pr, it got me in New York and it, it paid the bills, right. And so I had this hope that someday maybe I could find a path to design. But at that moment I was like, nope, I'm just paying the bills, I'm doing it. And so what's interesting about that career anesthesia is that career was all about clients and client services and budgets and deadlines and productivity and presentations, which, hello, is so much of what I do as a designer. And I was fortunate enough a couple years into that. A dear friend of mine who had been working in the auction gallery world was thinking about switching over to interiors and interviewed for a really established firm in Boston. And she called me and said, I'm not going to take this job because I'm taking a different job. But you are so pitch perfect for this job. I think you should, I think you should do it. I think you should switch careers and do it. And it was, it really was Kismet. And her name is Susan Reddick. She herself is English, she's now since retired. Very Czech and Chintz, Colfax and Fowler. And it was 100% a true apprenticeship, I would say. I spent a couple years with Susan and then I switched over to a larger firm. Heather Wells, dear friend, amazing mentor. Heather is a Harvard trained architect who decided to run an interiors firm and really knows how to run, run a big team, you know, manage a bigger office, handle bigger jobs. And so that was really kind of how I flowed into, you know, from PR into design and then really fully coming up through the ranks, getting apprenticed. I did go back to school and do graduate work at risd. Yeah. And so that's, that's kind of the beginning of it. And I, I could tell you how I started my firm. I don't know if that's contextual or we could move on to the next question.
[00:06:42] Speaker B: No, I'd love to know, I'd love to know after you complete those apprenticeships and then you go back to school, how do you go from working from, for someone else to having your own firm?
[00:06:51] Speaker A: I think the other thing is this is pre Instagram, pre the websites, of course, rule the world. Paper portfolios. It's pre Instagram, it's pre Pinterest. You know, it's pre Facebook, you know, it's pre LinkedIn. Like just to give some context. So, you know, it is typical that if you are going to start your own firm, you get apprenticed and then you're in the market that you're in and you decide it's time to leave the nest and you spread your wings and you maybe take a couple prints with blessings and you do your own thing. I did not do that. I was in the middle of graduate school and my husband was also in graduate school and his first year of getting his mba, like a light bulb, he sat up straight and said, I want to be a professor. So we moved across country. Mark looked at PhD programs all over the country. And I had a job I absolutely adored in the city I adored. And it literally kicked me out of the nest from my husband and myself with no children at the time, to move 3,000 miles from Boston to Seattle. And I just adored the job I had in Boston. And I thought, you know what, I'm going to give a go at it. If Mark's going to have his PhD, that's going to be his intense thing. I'm going to, you know, with Heather's blessing, have good photography and have a good paper portfolio and give a go at it 3,000 miles from where I've been working to start my own business. And at that point in time, it really was who are the best architects, who were the best builders in time, who are the best high end realtors and lunch, coffee, paper portfolio.
And people were really receptive. They had a sense of like, oh, you know what you're doing, you're well trained, you've got a great east coast aesthetic. But it was a very grassrootsy engagement and I probably wouldn't have left Heather at that moment in time. It sort of kicked me out in the nest with a baptism by fire element, I would say. And so it, I was launched in that way, which I think is a little unusual.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: I love that I've moved cross country many, many, many times in my life. And I think it's just like a really critical part of like your human development. So I love that that's how you started your career. Well, you started your, your firm, not your career.
[00:08:42] Speaker A: Totally, totally. And, and, and I think it was, it was also nice in the sense that there wasn't this huge tension of is it time? Is it not time? I'm not sure. It was just very much. Okay, here we go. You know, this is upon me. Yeah.
[00:08:54] Speaker B: So Lisa, can you fast forward us to today and talk us through kind of what your team looks like now, what roles they play and what that kind of like firm structure is.
[00:09:04] Speaker A: Absolutely. So we are an eight person team, me, obviously. And then I have two designers, kind of senior and mid level, and then we have two people who are full time doing CAD3D. We do a lot of internal shop drawings. We've brought those in house and a lot of like SK detail drawings to support a lot of the really nuanced handcrafted components that go into kitchens and bathrooms and paneling and all of that. We have a full time procurement specialist that does all the ordering, all the tracking. Did it arrive, did it arrive in good shape, fix it, all those good things. Our bookkeeper is contract, so she's part of a larger firm that services other businesses. And then I have an onboarding assistant who does a lot of onboarding inquiries, sort of marketing light and sort of some catch all things as well. So that's, that's kind of the eight nuts and bolts. We outsource social media and website and we outsource pr.
[00:09:58] Speaker B: I am curious. That's a pretty hefty team. In, in my opinion, how many projects is a real sweet spot for your firm?
[00:10:07] Speaker A: That's a great question.
And I will preface it by saying again, coming from a firm that was run by an architect, from the jump, it was literally goal one. So my real focus when I established the firm was to just feed on the ground, make relationships, get clients, and I'll give a shout out to Tammy. The firm's, you know, going on year 21 and Tammy's been me, been with me for 20 and a half years. So it was always a goal. And I knew from the jump that I personally didn't have those technical skills. I had finished or done my graduate work when it was right in the bridge between hand drafting. I'm making myself feel like a dinosaur. But literally when I started out, we were still picking up blueprints that smelled all crazy chemicals and developing film and borrowing the office Polaroid and so. But no, Tammy has been with me the entire time and it was a hundred percent what I immediately wanted to do. But I think it's really different, Anastasia, than a long time ago. Like you can figure out how to draft and draw and there's a lot of 5D planners and tools for people even who aren't traditionally trained that did not exist, you know, 21 years ago. Totally.
[00:11:17] Speaker B: And when you had someone in house, I mean, it's a lot easier to be able to get your idea over to your contract technical artist than it would have been when you guys were sending blueprints back and forth for sure. And the fact that you've had the same person on the team the whole time, it's like, why would you shake that up. So, okay, so in that corporate, corporate, if you will, studio makeup, what is your role on the team and what parts of the business are you still hands on with and what have you really delegated?
[00:11:46] Speaker A: So interestingly enough, I think that is the hardest piece of the puzzle to keep a pulse on. And as a result, I'm going to answer it where I'm currently at today. And I think that during the COVID years in particular, trying to unpack, that has been a real piece of a journey. I'm actually been working with a business coach the last year and a half and I would say that in today's language, I am very much the creative director of this firm and I cherry pick a couple projects that I hold near and dear. But in order to manage our workload and support and grow the team, I really empower my team design team to sink super tight with me on the projects that they manage more independently from a brand vision. My creative director standpoint, my expertise on things that maybe they haven't touched or known previously. And I really only keep my hands on a couple of the projects super tightly and cherry pick them. That's been a real journey to come to that place and get comfortable with, honestly. But it's an exciting time because it means that I get to return to design more but do it at a volume that's really manageable.
[00:12:51] Speaker B: Yeah, who, who's having the client communication on those projects that your designers are taking lead on?
[00:12:57] Speaker A: There they are. I'm on some of the emails, but not all of them. And yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, it's them really. I mean it, it varies from project to project, which is why I'm pausing on this question. You know, I think there are like, we just. You work with a team long enough and you get a couple years in with your team and it's like they know when to check back with you, circle back with you. We do these really meaty check ins with each other. So I know when it's time for some job site meetings that really need me. I know when there's certain shop drawings or certain details that I carry about, care about or worry about or might see something that they wouldn't. So that means that really gets me off those day to day emails and they circle up with me in more concise ways.
[00:13:37] Speaker B: You know, I feel like a big difference between a firm that was established pre Instagram versus a firm that's coming up, you know, in the last, let's say 10 years, is that clients get to know the face of the firm, get to know the name on the door via social media, and then they really expect that that's the person that they're talking to every single day and that that's the person who's giving them your. Their cell phone number and you guys can just text and go shopping together. How have you been able to establish that, you know, your lead on the project is the point of contact, and that's really going to be the best person to execute what concerns someone has or just to really ideate with. I feel like that's a big struggle a lot of our listeners are experiencing right now. It's like, how do I shift to I'm not the one on every single call or every single email. And that's really for the best.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: Yeah, again, I think we've hit that sweet spot really recently. And the way I would articulate that is one of the things I used to always do when I interview clients. And, you know, we often come on board first and we're helping advise clients if pick general contractors. And I have always said to people, you know, you're going to meet the owner of a business, you're going to spend a lot of time with them, but ultimately, once your job gets rolling, it's that everyday site guy that your relationship with. And it's also if. If they're structured that way, it's the guy who's the. Who is running the numbers and running the schedule and all of that. And I would encourage you ask who's going to staff my project and can I meet them and can I actually talk to people who have worked with them? And so I've taken that model and shifted it over to my business. So when we are onboarding clients and again, this is just something I think we've really gotten touc fight with since COVID When we're onboarding, I have a really strong sense of is this a project that I'm holding more close to me and I develop that, like, really deep relationship with a client and then I onboard my team a couple months in, like, then set rapport stake and then I'm clear on the interview process or the other model is to say this is like what you're seeing in my portfolio. Like this senior designer on my team was actually the lead on these projects. I think she's a great fit for you. I'm actually going to have you interview with Lauren as a second step to your onboarding process with us. And when I send you references, I'm going to send you references for people who have worked with Lauren as the lead, with me as more creative director. And that's how I see onboarding your project. And so we are getting really savvy about being able to. Being able to front end that structure and competence with our clients. And it's been really successful. And it's interesting because architecture firms and contractors do this no problem.
But the name on the door interior design piece of it, you know, keeps interiors teams from feeling like they can do that as easily, you know.
[00:16:24] Speaker B: Yeah. I love that language and that client education in the onboarding process. I'll make sure that we have that little sound bite in our show notes and definitely in Patreon as well, because that is the best way I've heard it. And just like you're gonna. I'm gonna go ahead and introduce you to who it is you're talking to. I want you to get references from people who worked with them. And I think the biggest thing is just lead.
This is the design team that actually worked on this portfolio piece that you love so much. And just being able to step aside as the creative director and say, it's so fabulous. I'm so proud of my team who put this together. It was not me.
I just sprinkled my fairy dust at the end. And being really honest about that, I think that that is.
[00:17:05] Speaker A: Well. And I can add. I can add a second thing, I think sprinkling the fairy dust heavily on the front end. So we work really hard as a team now for me as creative director, to be a big part of the initial imagery, look, feel all of that so then I can release it again. This is a real growth place that we've been into in the last couple years. And the piece that pairs with that is, you know, create this. How do I explain this? Creatively? For my soul to be filled, it is essential that I hold some projects close to me or at least enough of the design process. Because what I realized post Covid is all of a sudden I. I'm the hr, pr, money, you know, person, and I'm not doing the fun stuff anymore. Right. So, like, where's the joy in that? So this is how we came to this, you know, with our business coach we've been working with. And. And in doing so, what it also means is that I don't have. You'll see in my portfolio if you go on our website. And there is a range of what we do. This also links. I think your other question about designers newer to the market. There's this idea of like, this is My brand and my vision. And you get one look, and this look is what you get, right. And. And I've always felt like, you know, like I have friends in the marketplace here. I'll say Heidi Colier, spectacularly talented, and she has a lane that is very much her look. And sometimes I have this anxiety like, am I less talented because I'm not passionate enough to want just my look. And I have a range, right. I have some more modern projects. I have some more traditional. I have some more transitional. And then separate from that, I have projects that are very much like what I would choose to live with. And I have projects which maybe some of my other team members speak more to them and then some that just we shift more to the clients. And I've redoing the website and getting clear on my mission got me comfortable with the fact that the collaborative process and having a range where there might be some, you know, strawberry, you know, ice cream that's a little bit more Lauren from my team, and some chocolate ice cream that's a little more Brigitte, and, you know, maybe whatever flavor in the middle is more me. And then the clients interface with that. I get really comfortable with that to give myself the space to work at scale and still hold some things close. And I know it's the model is different for everybody, but the interweaving of all that is part of, I think, what you asked.
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This is a very technical question. I'm so grateful if you're willing to answer it. But we are dying to know, as an industry veteran, how do you structure your billing? Are you doing flat rate hourly? A combination.
And how has that changed over the years to get you to settle for what feels really good right now?
[00:20:24] Speaker A: Yep. We have always Been hourly. I'm just so used to it and have always done it that way. And we just have so much documentation and historical data on where things kind of can range. Our projects are enormous. Many of them go on for many years.
And we're just good communicators with our clients. It's worked really well for us. It's always worked for them. So I've never touched it and I've never changed it. It's the way I grew up through the business. And then we are a hard stop 30% on top of everything we procure. And the important part to share about that, Anastasia, this is another growth thing in the last couple years. We used to always try to match whatever trade discount we got. So anywhere we got anywhere from 50% to 5% to no percent, honestly. And we have really just hit a place where we just say carte blanche across the board. We're 30% on product and 15% on shipping. And that's just what it takes because we don't, we don't have to be constantly double checking. And it's not really about what's the discount. It's like what's fair, what makes sense for us to come on board, what's the profitability our team expects. And because at any given time, there might be a lot of design center things that are in that 40, 50% are trade pieces. There's a lot of antique stores that are 40 to 20. We pound the pavement and shop a lot local. That's something else we can get to later, you know, not just on a computer and first dibs. So there's a lot of value we find for clients there. And so just having a straight, hard clearance, super transparent number is a, I think, an essential piece of the pricing and the relationship we have with our clients.
[00:21:51] Speaker B: Okay, so just so I'm understanding this, if you get 50% off at XYZ vendor, then you're charging 30% markup. That means your client on that one piece is getting 20% off retail or you're doing 30% markup off of the retail.
[00:22:06] Speaker A: We are taking our full trade discounted price. So if we're talking $100 and our trade price is 50, we add the 30% on top of the 50.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: Got it. So sometimes your clients will be getting a discount on items. Other things you don't get any discount. And they are getting a 30% markup. So in the end it ends up being a wash is how you like to think of it.
[00:22:25] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:22:25] Speaker B: Okay, Lisa, So this is what I really really, really wanted to talk to you about today, but there's just so much I'm like, I need to get every ounce of juice I can get out of your brilliant brain before we get that far. So you have now run your business through a number of major economic shifts. The 2008 housing crisis, the COVID boom, and then what I feel like so many of us are feeling are today's post Covid adjustment. What patterns have you noticed that can help you weather economic up and downs? What were you doing in your business when these really scary things happened? And how did you keep your doors open?
[00:23:03] Speaker A: There was a dip in the early two. So I started in 2004. We were sort of coming out of that 2000 crash diploma. In 2008, I had moved cross country for a job for my husband. We ended up going back to Seattle and then had my second baby. So that was a piece of my life. The two things I would say about the crash of 2008 that I think could be really helpful for people. A couple things. One of the things we noticed is that pretty quickly during the 2008 crash, the big meaty procurement, furniture ordering projects dried up. People were not furnishing whole houses and spending lots of money on product, but what they were spending money on was renovating the key parts of the house that always get renovated. Kitchen, bathrooms, and then you end up picking up some furniture and window treatment work on the other side of that. And I think one of the things I will say is because we have this architectural interiors, drafting, drawing, renovating component to what we do that kept us really busy during the crash that instead of doing whole houses from scratch, we were doing a ton of, you know, small to medium sized renovations. There were times at which my hourly billing was like 40 or 50 people. I'm not kidding. Like I, I said yes to everything it felt like back then. That's the other piece that I will say is that you may not photograph at all, but there was a lot of like, oh, you know, oh, I just need help with window treatments in a house you would never photograph or aesthetically wouldn't be your thing. But it was a meaty, good, quick commission project with a drapery workroom. Game on. We did it. And so that was another piece of it that, that I think was a key component of the 2008 time. The third thing I will say about the crash is there's no shame in just communicating the people you know and love working with. You know, it's no mystery to anybody when the economy adjusts and so it's okay to reach out to some of your favorite clients and say, you know, we're slowing down with some space. Is there anything you want to refresh? And reaching out to your favorite contractors and architects and saying, we've got a space. So I hope that's helpful.
[00:25:06] Speaker B: You know, no, that is so helpful. I really appreciate you reminding people that maybe if things slow down or continue to slow down or wherever at any point in your career, that maybe it's okay to loosen the reins a little bit on the hard and fast. We only do full service projects, start to finish, 100% completed, that maybe, like you said, people are still needing to do their kitchens and still needing to do their bathrooms and go ahead and get some of that work in to weather the storm, if you will, until they're ready to go ahead and start spending on those furnishings.
[00:25:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And then there's actually a third component that I've been thinking about lately that I think people would love hearing about. So obviously social media and really amazing photography and website and social media and Instagram work interest is essential for what we do for work. But I think that one of the things that gets lost sometimes is that, and it's funny, I heard a podcast with someone else mentioning this recently that once you're operating at a level of doing really, really high end projects, being the firm that is known by the architects and the contractors to have great drafting skills, amazing Google sheets and drafted documentation, a real team player buttoned up, you know, I think that we're always working to get those systems better, but I do think that you want to be on that short list that those people love you as a team player, not just because it's beautiful and a good outcome in the end, but because you make their lives easier and they know they're going to get a really good package from you and that your systems are really tight, tightly in place. I had a great conversation with a contractor yesterday who said to me, hey, I noticed a couple things on your Google shits. With the way you're revising and reissuing your PDFs, I feel like there's a way it could be cleaner. And I was like, oh gosh, let's have dinner. Like, gosh, I'd love to hear more, you know, and so when you wrap up a project, sit down with the architects and the builders you work with and say, like, tell me about how it gets fed to you with other projects or even do it on the front end, but that actually can really help feed you Work well as well.
[00:27:05] Speaker B: Especially on, like you said, the architect and builders, because so a lot of clients go to the architect or potentially the builder first based on their neighbor down the street, use that builder. And so that's where they're starting. So to be able to be building that really personal network for when the Instagram inquiries start to slow down, I think that makes total sense. Lisa, I'm curious what the COVID boom looked like for your firm and how did you navigate the surge in demand if you felt it or if you guys slowed down?
[00:27:36] Speaker A: We didn't slow down. It was, I mean, honestly, like, it's interesting. I mean, I have to say from a personal level, my children are now, you know, 14 and 17 and my husband's a university professor. And I gotta give my husband a shout out. You know, when Covid hit and we knew the job sites were opening with temperature checks at week six and, you know, we got the kids kind of in a rhythm with homeschool, you know, I sprinted towards the business and Mark sprinted towards the kids. And I, as a woman and a mom, like, like, like it was. He was an exceptional human and partner and the business absolutely exploded. The amount of people we had to say no to the. The. This, this is like influx was insane. We ramped up on our, our team members. We, you know, finished some spectacular projects and. But it, I will say that there were times at which it was so exciting and so much fun and there were times at which it was just so overwhelming and it, you know, I, I gained weight. I, you know, I worked insane hours. My team, I think, was that current team during COVID are, you know, some of them are with me. Some of them are, have gone out and spread their wings or moved to New York. But just a spectacular level of commitment. And no matter how hard we worked, we could never stay on top of it. It was like nothing I've ever experienced. It was an absolute explosion and it was joyful and it grew us and it was wonderful, but it was like bone numbing, exhausting at times.
[00:28:58] Speaker B: How do you feel your new normal looks today? What. What is that workload? The inquiry flow, Your sleep. How is that, how is that looking now?
[00:29:09] Speaker A: Yeah, so I think what's really interesting about today is we definitely got more inquiries than we can handle. And you know, we, you know, we still have to be selective about. We cannot take on or pacing them forward. What's pretty cool.
This is like another like business coach adjustment in the last couple of years when you are interior designer working in a client's home. Many of whom are amazing, lovely, wonderful human beings. But they have obviously a level of wealth where you are working for them there. I had, I had read an interview a bajillion years ago about a fancy New York interior designer who called himself an exotic domestic. And what he meant by that is like, we are fancy hired help. Right. And so there are times at which. But we're such people pleasers. We're wired to be, yes, people, right.
And what I realized coming out of COVID is we were so focused on trying to get container ships to show, get things on time and trying to get products installed on time and time to like meet budgets and deadlines that were truly impossible to meet that we were working ourselves into the ground. And on top of that we, it was that jump how high? Constantly answer all the time. And what I realized in the last couple years is that we are doing a way better job now of saying to our clients, hey, you've got this job that's a two and a half year project. We're going to do these, we do these like three to four month roadmaps for clients where we're really clear about the chunks that we're achieving and drafting and drawing and designing. And we actually say, look, we're running a business and we're staffing our business to service your project and we want there to be bandwidth that if the permit gets held up and you want to change your mind and you want to edit things or do a few more rounds, but we're not going to burn ourselves into the ground working all night long and all weekend we're going to have to say either your project is, you know, needs to take another month or we need to talk about how that structures. And I didn't have that language anesthesia in a clear way until the last couple of years, I would say. And so I have a team right now that we work really hard to roll like you know, 8 to 6 or not, you know, 9 to 5 ish. People go home and walk their dogs and have lunch. I know that sounds so basic, but we weren't doing that. We were just working 24 7. And so as my. Because I have a team that values work, life balance, we don't text each other on the weekends and we, we, we try to, you know, keep things email, not text. And so there's just some just like mindful rhythms to it all that have been re established that roll through to our projects and it doesn't mean there aren't times we absolutely have to jump the extra mile all the time. But we're not doing it. I mean, I actually used the phrase last week. You know, we're no longer running the business like an ER triage. It got really out of whack. I feel like I'm sounding negative, but it was joyful and amazing to be that busy. But, you know, it was hard.
[00:31:45] Speaker B: Yeah. It takes a little perspective to be like, wait a minute, wait a minute. We are not doing brain surgery like you said. This is. Yeah, you're very fancy hired help. And I think sometimes it can be humbling, but sometimes you have to sit back and be like, wait, that is true. What are the boundaries that I want to set for myself?
[00:32:04] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, look, we had a coffee table recently that was stuck somewhere in the greater Portland area, and I was not leaving Portland until I got that coffee table released. And it was insane, the amount of phone calls and the manager to get to it. So, like, I. I get in the weeds with, you know, like, crazy, like, intensity to see things through, but I. My team helps me have the right perspective. So I'm not in full tilt adrenaline mode all the time anymore. And I was for a couple years.
[00:32:27] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Before this next question, I just want to give a little context and preface. Lisa and I are talking. What is it now? We're at like, the end of April. Ish. Yeah, we're at the end of a. End ish of April. So at the time of this recording, things could be totally different by the time this airs. But. Right. A very, very valid conversation is talking about tariffs and how that can affect our clients and our jobs and educating clients and kind of the scope that you're able to provide for a client because of said tariffs. If they follow through. If they don't follow through. Have you experienced anything like this in the past?
And if you have, how'd you get through it? And secondly, it sounds like you've really worked with your business coach and just also internally to work on finding the right language to express situations and set expectations with your clients. What kind of language are you using with your clients to prepare them for what could be coming?
[00:33:25] Speaker A: Step one. Have I dealt with something like this before the last three weeks? No, I have not dealt with a political administration and an environment that is pricing structure wise for my business. So unpredictable. Step one. Step two. I can tell you, you know, what I did, which I think would have been three weeks ago. I was sitting at an airport about defy to Los Angeles to meet a client for a sourcing trip when I'm reading the New York Times with a headline that says executives are scrambling on how to handle tariffs and communicate with clients. And I'm thinking, here I am like small little business with eight people and I am at the airport with two items at hand. And I can tell you how I handled them. But one of them was an enormously large drapery hardware order coming in from England that was just held at the port of New Jersey because they had no idea what the tariff should be or how to pay the tariff and no idea when it may or may not get released. It. It and, and a client who's about to move in and, you know, now the drapes can go up. So that was sort of step one. Step two is we were about to place almost a whole house worth of orders and my procurement person called me and said, lisa, nobody's guaranteeing pricing. Like, by the time we order this, we could be 30% on top of half of what we're ordering. And so I, you know, I took a big breath and she and I workshopped and I did two things with the drapery person. One, we still had a two week buffer. And I said, you know, we've got all the bedrooms covered, so if I have to make my client feel okay, all the bedrooms have what they need. It was the rest of the house that was getting installed. So I was like, shoot, people can sleep, the window treatments are there. So let's give it a week and then communicate with the, with the furniture stuff. I called the client and just said, you know, we don't know where this is going to land, but what I'd like to do is have you pay me for all of this furniture. And Katie's going to make this her biggest priority. We are going to pay as fast as you pay us. We're going to pay every single vendor and if there are any items that go up, we're just going to call you and say, these five items went up. Do you still want them? And of course, ironically then he announced all the European tariffs were gone literally within 12 hours. All that drapery hardware shipped, like left the port and was literally on its way to Seattle. And then the other client, I think we did have a couple things that changed in prices. And I think what actually is actually interesting about this is it's the mass produced, it's CB2, it's Lulu in Georgia, it's West Elm, it's all those guys, which we don't order very much at all that are jumping in price. Like all of our small batch vendor, like LA, NY, local antique stores throughout the greater, you know, United States, and even abroad, they kept their prices settled from that, I will say we order from around the world all the time, and our bookkeeper is all the time playing paying incoming custom fees. And we're used to that. And that's part of our language anyways. So anyways, I don't know. Did I help you? That's my, like, one slice. But again, it's full, like, super transparency. And say to the client, you know, we're just gonna have to take your money, pay for absolutely anything. And then if five things flag is a jump, we'll just communicate. That's all we could do.
[00:36:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Something that someone else brought up on the show that hasn't aired yet that I thought was interesting is like, well, if we pay you too early, that money could have been sitting in our account collecting interest potentially. And so how do you handle that? This particular designer was like, oh, I like to hold off on ordering until like the very last minute to make sure that my client's money stays with them. I don't like to act like a bank. Do you feel like this tariff sit situation, you know, changes. Changes that thought process?
[00:36:59] Speaker A: Oh, you know what's interesting about this because we so a couple data points. Number one, we collect 100 and we pay our vendors 100. So we do not hold money ever, number one. Number two, we buy from all over the world, and we're used to getting fifty dollars here, hundred dollars there, custom fees for things coming in. And we know what those percentages tend to be for those. And we bill that as a true fixed cost with a 15% markup once we pay that customs fee. So I don't run my books. I don't think the same way this other person does because I. The money comes in, the money goes out immediately.
[00:37:33] Speaker B: Got it. And when you say you're collecting 100%, are you collecting 100% for all furnishings in a house at once or are you doing things in like, okay, let's start with, you know, the public spaces. Let's start with the bedrooms. Are you really presenting and collecting whole home at a time?
[00:37:49] Speaker A: We do it in batches. I would say it's probably like three batches. And then window treatments as a batch tend to straggle because we try to order furniture when we're in drywall. And sometimes the window treatments aren't ready to be ordered because you can't measure yet.
[00:38:01] Speaker B: Lisa. I'm looking for some, like, Mama Lisa. Advice to those Listening who started their, their firm, you know, in the last five years since the COVID boom. And they're getting really nervous about this because you know, their projects are $250,000. It's a lot of money to people.
But $250,000 when now 30% of that is going to be, you know, added on top and they're like I'm not able to produce the same quality of work or scope of work in a project because of those adjustments. What would you say to them right now?
[00:38:36] Speaker A: Well, in step one, it is not seeming that 30% across the board necessarily is happening. Number two, I actually one piece I probably didn't tell you is that in that in this window that we've been dealing with the last couple of weeks makes you know, not all Americans understand that the person purchase the business purchasing the item pays the tariff and the intent is to obviously encourage American purchasing. It has returned us to paying attention to American purchasing a little bit. Guys like I like here's the, here's the underbelly of what I have to admit. I'm from the east Coast, I've been shopping old school for years and from Maine all the way down to New York City and down into, you know, the South. We have deep relationship with antique dealers. So for young people I would say get off your computer and get off the algorithm and shop local, pound the pavement. You can also get amazing pricing if you go directly the shops and you're not just sitting on first dibs ordering and purchasing, if that makes sense. I it is I think to, to find the value it will push people out of the big box retailer stuff from Asia if that's where those tariffs stay higher and get a little scrappy with, with other things. Start reupholstering like find some great Facebook market fames and start reupholstering things. I mean I know this sounds like I'm leaning into the current administration's policy but that like you have to get scrappy and work within the context of of what's happening. And I think that, I think that reassuring clients too like to. I think that you're, you know, you've got people are gonna going to market like who are you? The small batch upholstery workrooms that you don't even know about in North Carolina where you can get some great value where you're not getting something off of a container ship and you're a little more protected. Like sure, those people have price increases because they're foam and some of our other things are Coming from abroad. But I think you have to just really get scrappy to know your vendors. And I. I will say, I. If I'm being super honest that I asked my team if we were. If we were really going whole hog into what we thought we were going into three or four weeks ago. We make a lot of phone calls to our favorite east coast dealers, you know, or, you know, like, you're. Don't just pick every fabric you want. Like a lot of upholstery workrooms and drapery workrooms have amazing relationships with wholesale fabric companies that aren't quite. Sorry. St. Yellow Design Center. Quite as sexy as the design center. And they don't have three people and markups between. And they, like, buy wholesale. And you could buy that stuff straight and tell your clients that, like, hey, you want the expertise of me, so I'm going to find the value in the goods. And you may not have the most amazing linen from Pure Fray. And instead we're going to get something direct from Fabrica that my drapery workroom has this amazing wholesale account from, like, get. Get scrappy on their part, if that makes sense.
[00:41:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think because you do charge hourly, that is Conversations to have upfront that, like, you are willing to find this value for them and you are protecting your own butts when it does take longer to find those things. Cause you're not just shopping online from, you know, four or five vendors. You're actually putting in the groundwork. One thing you mentioned at the top of the show that I thought was so interesting that I'd love to touch on before we have to wrap up, is your literal paper portfolios. Back in the day and kind of the transition from paper portfolios to Instagram and social media. What has that shift felt like as a designer from like a client inquiry flow standpoint, do you feel like Instagram has, in fact, like, blown up your business, or do you feel like there were those very organic meetings with those top architects and builders and that was actually bringing you more work before.
[00:42:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Instagram has blown up the business. You can't. Absolutely. So I think what's particularly interesting about the flow these days, a couple data points. It used to be through the word of mouth, maybe you see your friend's house. That was well done. Or you think, gosh, we just bought a house, we need some help. And someone says, oh, we worked with so and so. She's great. Right. It was much about this person knows how to do this, has the resources to do this, has the connection, and also has the good taste, right? What's particularly interesting about the Instagram blow up, and we have seen it as much as anybody, is that by the time we get a phone call, it usually is. We've been following you for years or months. We really want to put work with you. What's your wait list? Can you take us on? They know us, they know our product, they know our vision ahead of time. So that, that is a piece of it that's completely different from an onboarding process. I would say. In the last six months, though, we're getting a ton of phone calls from like, really good architects who are like, gosh, we haven't worked together in Seattle and we love your work and I have a client who's interested. And so, like, people are having have a little more time to actually go old school with each other because we're not so overwhelmed. The other piece, I think is really interesting that I think people who are established and people who are newer will find interesting is we. For the absolute best jobs we're looking at these days, it is not uncommon that people are interviewing two or three firms and that those firms are not located where the project is. So we're on the expert platform. And the blow up of Instagram means that anybody can hire anybody from anywhere. And I do also have clients. Like in the past, I would have, say even 10 or 12 years ago, once you became a client's person, you were their person person. You did their houses, you did their summer house, you did their ski house, you did their main house, you maybe did their kids houses. That's not the case anymore. You might hire somebody totally different for your mountain house than you actually do for your main house. And that's, that's a totally different trajectory. And I think for people starting out, so many people have entered the marketplace. And so I think that if you're starting out and you're really wanting to get connected, going back to old school, I think, I think there's always going to be regional designers by the city region. And then when you get to this national platform, you're going to compete against other people. So, you know, I have a team member who's gone on her own and spread her wings recently. And, you know, I think, you know, I think you have to be the person, like, tell all your friends, tell all your friends, parents, like, people who aren't on Instagram and aren't like, super in the know and aren't reading the design magazines, who go back to basics of, oh, gosh, we just bought this house. And we do want to renovate a bathroom. And our contractor says we need a designer. I don't know, to start, like, be that person. Figure out who the 10 best realtors in your market are and, like, show them your work and. And show them that you have technical skills and that you can do construction work. So I think that piece of it for people starting out, I think they think I have to get the best photos ever and be all social media, and you can end up with thousands of followers all over the country who just want to order the wallpaper you just used. They're never going to call you, so you have to be really mindful of that.
[00:45:10] Speaker B: You know, I have a couple more questions before I know you have to pop off. You are so sweet to join us from a site visit right now. What. What advice do you have to designers who are trying to build, you know, this is their forever career. They're like, I'm building this firm. I want the people who work for me to work here forever who feel pigeonholed into feeling like the only way to do that these days is to have this signature aesthetic, to be like, this is my look. But don't want that to be the case. Want to get to stretch their wings, want to get to showcase their designers on their team's signature styles or in a lot of cases, design the best design for what makes sense for that house.
[00:45:47] Speaker A: Even if you don't want to be pigeonholed into a signature style, I would say find the commonality of thread that is your must have.
So I can articulate it in terms of our terms, which is, for us, one of a kind, bespoke, handmade, warm, authentic. Right. So if you look at our website, you're gonna see modern projects, university, more traditional projects. But there is a warmth in there that, to me, if you ask me to build a big modern box and order everything from design within reach or super modern, I'd be like, that's just not me. I need to go antique shopping. I need to have some linens and some marble and some, you know, things that patina in there. And so I think that find the common thread, and then you can service that whole big range, I would say. The other piece of it I would say is. And this is not answering your question exactly, but we have worked hard to find the thread of sure. The firm has remained my name, and I've articulated to you already how I maneuver around giving agency for other people to spearhead projects, but my name is still on the door, and I've had to wrestle with this decision, anesthesia versus something like, you know, studio statement or whatever. Because that common thread that I'm talking about and what I've built over 21 years and all that ethos, it's more than just the look. Like, to have that, to have that spread across a range of an esthetic, not just a signature look, gets to the heart of who you are as people. What's your ethos? How do you service the full team? What is the range architecturally versus just decoratively, you know, that you want to service. And I think that bigger picture layers into the aesthetic range as well.
[00:47:25] Speaker B: Absolutely. Okay. What is one piece of advice you wish someone had given you when you first started your firm?
[00:47:30] Speaker A: Take time off for your children, because the work will be there. I feel ridiculous saying that, but my kids are 15 and 17, and I, I, I mean, I literally had the baby in the sling at the design center looking at rugs, and it was fun and it was wonderful, but I'm not very good at slowing down. And I think that, and we may or be about to be a slow process, like fold your samples, go learn some new things, spend time with your kids. If it gets slower, it'll be there. It'll come back. That's, I, I, that feels so old lady to say that is, that's probably not what you were hoping to hear.
[00:48:00] Speaker B: But, no, I feel it. I've got a five month old at home and I'm like, how do I, I feel like I'm just getting busier and I need to be moving slower.
[00:48:08] Speaker A: I feel like my firm is this other child. I think that's the, that's really what I'm trying to articulate. Sorry. I love my children, guys. You're not, you're not equal to the business. That, but if you're not careful, it can feel that way, you know?
[00:48:20] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. All right, last question. I'm dying to know. After 20 years in business, what do you feel most proud of?
[00:48:26] Speaker A: Oh, let me think on that one. What am I most proud of? I think I'm most proud of, I'm most proud of having been mentored really well when I was young, and then I'm now in a season where I'm passing that forward successfully, and that's been a huge growth stage and I'm still learning it. And then separate from that, I would say I just, I know I have a visual gift. I'm just proud that I've been able to share it with my clients and share it with my team and grow them. That's not a one word answer.
[00:48:55] Speaker B: Sorry, I didn't need one word. That was beautiful, Lisa. Thank you so much. I know you have to hop off and get back to your clients. This was so insightful. It's honestly really inspiring and gave me a lot of hope for what situation we're in and knowing we will get through it. And like you said, the work will be there.
[00:49:12] Speaker A: Oh, I love that you said that. So I'm currently on Salmon island which is in the Northwest and I flew from where I live in Bellingham over to Salmon island and somebody in Hayfield patch on the flight pattern mowed Hope in the field this morning.
[00:49:26] Speaker B: So that perfectly aligned with the rest of our day and getting to talk to each other. So thank you so much Lisa. I hope you have a great site visit and we will talk very soon.
[00:49:35] Speaker A: Brilliant. This has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much. So much.
[00:49:38] Speaker C: For more in depth analysis of this interview including exclusive downloads, examples and more, don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] the Interior Collective thank you so so much for tuning in to this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. A big huge thank you to our production team at IDCO Studio and Quinn made. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible possible.
Until next time. I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living.
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