[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host Anastasia Casey and today we are diving into a topic that has been top of mind for so many designers lately and that's signature style. But we're doing it in a little different spin. I'm joined today by Minneapolis based interior designer Heather Peterson, principal of Heather Peterson Design and self proclaimed mixmaster known as known for her richly layered and genre spanning interiors. As the design scene in Minneapolis continues to flourish and take on a distinct identity of its own, Heather has found herself asking, how do you stand out in a market that's beginning to look a certain way? In this conversation, Heather pulls back the curtain on the deeply personal process of defining her studio's signature style. From creating a love list of materials her team constantly gravitates toward think cork, bright, patchwork and marble to wrestling with the vulnerability of saying this is what we like, Heather shares what it means to lead with intuition in a world that rewards trend following.
Whether you are in the thick of a rebrand or just trying to define your design identity, this episode is an absolute must. Listen I have to admit, this conversation blew my mind. Let's tune in.
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Hey Heather, welcome to the show. I'm so glad to have you here. This is so exciting. As we were chatting before we started recording, you said that you've been dying to get on the show and I'm like, well Shoot. I wish someone told me. I would have had you on the show three seasons ago.
So glad that we are sitting down for this conversation. I'm really interested in today's topic because it is just something that I've quietly been watching, quietly been gathering my thoughts together, quietly contemplating a move to Minneapolis, like, all of these things. So I'm really ready to dig in. Thank you again for your time. And I'm just going to start hitting you with. With the heavy questions right away.
But I think we. I think we should start with a little context as we get into today's topic. I'd love to know how you would Describe the Minneapolis, St. Paul, Twin Cities design scene right now, because it just feels like it's booming. It just feels so freaking cool.
[00:03:27] Speaker D: You know, it's funny, I didn't necessarily see it until you framed it that way, but I would say we are really having a moment.
Even a couple years ago, I would have said we were sort of flyover territory in design, even though there have been, you know, great designers here all along.
But it does seem like the rest of the world is catching on a little bit. You know, we're starting to see designers who are expert, top 40, and ad new voices. You know, you've had people at your camp, and it just starts to. It's starting to feel like there's a lot more recognition.
I think it's also. There's been this real sort of bubbling up of makers. We've got amazing tile makers, lighting makers, wallpaper designers, all of these different crafts. And I think as Minneapolis designers are working nationwide, it's this opportunity to bring our homegrown talent all across the country.
And it's pretty exciting.
[00:04:29] Speaker B: It is exciting. I just think it's so cool. I have many designer friends out of Minneapolis, and almost I can't think of one that I wouldn't be like, I want you to design my house, and yourself included. I'm like, it's just such a cool vibe, and there's definitely some similarities that run through it. I think part of it is, you know, in the Midwest, you have your long winters, so your interior space needs to be so special, and your outdoor space needs to be extra special, too, because you have such precious summer months. But I'm really excited to learn from you as to, like, how you've really distinguished yourself and kind of stayed in your own lane, even as this is really bubbling up. I think that Minneapolis is so interesting and special because it's like, yeah, you've got both coasts, but I Don't even think here in Austin we have the same level of sort of carved out vibe when it comes to interior design that y' all do up in the Twin Cities. And so I just think it's so cool that my favorite design is coming from the Midwest. I just think that's so cool. So when you're working in a market that is beginning to lean towards a regional vibe or look, and it's interesting to hear you say, Heather, that it wasn't even something you were like super conscious of.
But how, how are you feeling? Like you're avoiding getting swept into that sameness. And maybe we can even take that conversation a little bit broader to like Instagram and like, how are you staying in your lane and designing true to you when you're seeing so much of X, Y and Z or this trend happen here, or it's just like Instagram in your face sameness. What makes your design special and how do you continue to deliver that?
[00:06:09] Speaker D: So I would say I think there's a couple of layers there and a couple key reasons that I think I'm able to stay unique. One, I have actually worked on projects across the country from the beginning. I lived in New York for a long time and so when I moved home to Minneapolis and started this business, I had this sort of nationwide network.
And so I think because I actually did more projects not in the Twin Cities in the beginning than were here.
So I don't think I necessarily got steeped in a sort of regionalism because I was responding to different locations.
I'm also self taught and I think that I just have this really voracious appetite for design.
I've always loved design magazines. I listen to all the podcasts, I've got a million design books. And so my sort of self education self spans decades.
[00:07:08] Speaker A: Right.
[00:07:08] Speaker D: You know, books that were published in the 70s, it might be an influence all the way up to today. I think the other key thing is that really when we're working on a project, there are three important voices mine, the houses and the clients.
And if you think about it, there's literally infinite numbers of ways that you could design any individual home.
But if you have those three lenses, you will end up being unique every time, no matter what Instagram says.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's so brilliant. I think again, one of these reasons why I'm like, maybe we should move to Minneapolis is just like, you have amazing historic homes. There's just a lot of character architecturally already. So as you're saying, looking at the project through the lens of the home itself, I think, is such a key element that sometimes in these new build situations on either coast or here in Texas, that's a lens that's almost missing sometimes. So I do think that that really adds to your signature. So I'm so excited to talk about your signature style and. And this discovery process you've been on recently. So I'd love to dig in to the searching that you've been working on with your team to dive into refining your studio's own signature style. What has sparked this process for you?
[00:08:31] Speaker D: I will say that for many years, every project was really an opportunity to learn a new style.
I. Because I didn't establish myself with the signature look, it was really more about process.
And we would get referrals, you know, client to client, saying, heather can help you discover your style.
And there was this sort of education component, both for myself and for the clients. And it was really exciting. I mean, I love a learning curve. I always want to be learning new things.
But there started to be this, I don't know, slight dissatisfaction if I felt like those other two voices, the client voice and the architecture, were sort of overshadowing what I wanted to bring to it.
And I really had to flip my mindset. You know, in the beginning, I literally would ask myself, okay, if this client could hire any design, any designer, like, if budget was no, no object, and they could go to the top, who would they hire? And then I would sort of try to channel that person, which is actually a really great education, because then you're looking at how people put things together and, you know, signature elements they use and all of that, and picking and choosing what you like. But last year, I had this client where I found myself thinking, why did she hire us? I. I had this preconceived notion of what she was looking for, and it was a different designer here. And I thought, well, why didn't she just h.
And in a meeting, we had presented some things that were more this other aesthetic, and she just wasn't responding to it. And finally, she just looked at me and she said, but I want you like I hired you.
And she could tell that I wasn't maybe being completely authentic to myself. And it was this great moment to realize that despite my range and despite all the different historical references that I bring and all of that, that people really do want what we do and the way we put it together and that they're starting to really recognize a voice, as opposed to those earlier projects where they recognized a process or Even looked at our website and said, what I love is that every project feels like somebody different lives there.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: Right.
[00:10:53] Speaker D: But I think there's another layer to say it feels like somebody different lives there. But also there's this artistic point of view that is resonating with me.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: How did. So you had that experience, and it was maybe like one of those moments in your career. You know, we all have them. When you heard that and it resonated with you, what was kind of your. Your first step, like, when you were like, hey, we need to start actually really nailing this down.
What were those first action plans or thoughts or explorations you did to get that signature style process going?
[00:11:29] Speaker D: There were a couple of things that we did. The first was I had my team do a deep dive style exploration. So I literally had them go back through photographs of all of our past work and had them look at it without.
With a sort of open lens.
[00:11:48] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:49] Speaker D: And ask them to come back and share what they saw. Both in terms of common themes, were there elements or strategies that we were using regularly, but also to look at if there was a gap between what we said we did and what we actually did. And we came back together and had a team retreat where everybody just, you know, shared their observations.
And we noticed two important things.
One was there was this little bit of a gap between the way we design for ourselves, because as it happened, I finished a revamp of my own house last year. And we. Thank you. And we updated the studio, and we noticed that when designing for ourselves, we were truly eclectic, very mixed items, very collected, and we weren't going quite as far as in client work.
And so I had to ask myself, is that because clients weren't willing to go there, or were we self editing and not bringing them the true mix and not challenging them to really go for it?
[00:13:03] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:04] Speaker D: The other thing we noticed was there was a gap between what we were effectively designing and how we were telling the story. And so one, you know, one of the things that we're really good at is a true whole home aesthetic. We think a lot about sight lines. We think a lot about how color might, you know, travel from the floor in this room to the lamp in that room to the art in the next room.
And I've been, you know, on set for photo shoots with other creative people who will make that observation. They'll be in the space and say, I just love how when I look through there, I can see how this, you know, color picks up over there.
And when we looked at the way we were shooting projects, we weren't capturing that at all. So we had to make some changes in how we were capturing the work and how we were really telling the story about the work that we were doing.
[00:14:02] Speaker B: That's so brilliant and so difficult to be that self aware, to really look at that. And also as a business owner say, oh, shit, we spent so much money on that shoot. And you know, if clients are living there now, I'm curious to know, did you ever go back and reshoot anything? But just like conceptually, to be able to go back and really evaluate a project that's totally completed and no longer living in your brain space, to be able to pick those elements out, that feels incredibly challenging. But so successful in what you were able to identify. You have described this process as both super fun but also vulnerable. Can you share what felt vulnerable about leaning into discovering and really defining a signature style?
[00:14:55] Speaker D: Yeah, you know, we live in a time where there is a lot of sameness being pushed at us. I was just listening to a podcast with the author of the book Filter World, which is all about how the algorithm has flattened culture.
And given the sort of sameness of the landscape, it can be a little bit risky to like different things. And to put that forward.
I love being unique. I love having idiosyncratic taste. But I also recognize that social media is so dominant in our culture now and it feels sort of like this popularity contest.
And it also legitimately creates opportunity, which is amazing. But it can feel challenging if you don't see recognition when you know you're doing great work. And I know logically that what I am after in projects is almost the opposite of what is rewarded in social media. I mean, in every project we are looking for a unique, personality driven, timeless space. And I feel like if I took the antonyms of each of those words, like, it would be what social media rewards.
[00:16:19] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:20] Speaker D: And so I think it probably also comes a little bit from being self taught. Imposter syndrome's real.
I feel like it comes up in, you know, podcasts regularly. But I do think there is a question of not having been taught what is good, which I'll put in parentheses, because honestly, I believe there is no good and bad. You know, in design, it's all what you do with it and it's all about what you love. But that can be a hard, hard line in the sand.
[00:16:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Part of leaning into your signature style, I feel, comes with having to say no to certain projects. And I feel like saying no is a really scary thing when you have A team, you have overhead, you have your to support.
How did you work through that fear? Or do you feel like you were already getting enough inquiries? It was just a matter of shifting what you were delivering?
[00:17:18] Speaker D: I will say that the big shift for me in saying no because of course when I started my business, I said yes to everything and it made sense. I was learning, you know, it all was a fit. I there I came to realize that I'm not doing anyone any favors by taking a project that's not a good fit. There's. And I, and I, at one point I feel like I even framed it that way. Like, well, you know, we could do them a favor. And, and then I thought, wait a minute, that you're not doing anyone any favors if you aren't excited about their project. This is luxury business. You know, I, I wish design was even was really more accessible than it is. But it is a luxury business to have someone come in and help you design your home. There's a lot of money at stake. You should work with someone who wants to embrace your taste, your style, your house and make it the best that it can be. So once I realized that I was saying no for them and not for me, that really worked itself out in my mind.
[00:18:25] Speaker B: What do you feel has been the most surprising part of working through this style definition process from your team's perspective? How has that shifted your team dynamic, your team's excitement, your team's workload?
How has it really affected that?
[00:18:42] Speaker D: I will say so my senior designer has worked in other environments and then my interior designer has been with me for five years and was hired out of school.
So they have pretty different perspectives. And the senior designer who has worked other places has said, I've never been brought in to the process like this, meaning the process of defining who we are and what we do. I am very collaborative, I'm very non hierarchical.
And I just feel like I have these amazing women on my team who have their own points of view and it would be a real sort of loss to not use their creativity, use their perspective and bring them in. I also think it just is much more exciting to work on projects where you feel like you had a real say in determining the sort of DNA of how things work. And so, you know, we've had these regular team retreats. I think we've done them annually or semi annually for several years now.
And some, some parts of it focus on client experience and business practices and all of that. But there's always a creative element and I love hearing what they're excited about.
And I really do believe that while my voice is setting the tone, there's just so much space to incorporate things that they love and to learn from them.
And I just. I think it makes us.
[00:20:21] Speaker B: I am super fascinated with this concept that you kind of coined called your love list.
Can you walk us through what the love list is and how it came together?
[00:20:34] Speaker D: Yeah, so it actually has roots in the beginning of my business.
My very first website, which my husband did all the photography and coding for. I mean, you know, a dozen years ago, on my contact page, I had text that said something like, I love Indian block print, Moroccan tile, Danish modern furniture, metallic gold, 50s chinoiserie, and the color orange. And something like, you may like, you know, two of the things on that list.
And I, you know, I promise if you don't love it, I won't try to put it in your house. But. So from really early on, when I didn't necessarily have a portfolio portfolio that showed a real esthetic, it just felt. It felt like sharing some of my loves was a way to connect with potential clients, even though I knew it was a little bit of an idiosyncratic list. And then I will say I sort of, you know, new website, lost sight of that. And I think really was on this journey of becoming so client centric and so focused on what the clients loved that I maybe lost that a little bit. And so last year, when we were doing a lot of this style exploration, I remembered that website and I sat down and I just literally wrote a list, you know, pen and paper, probably on the back of an invoice or something, and just, you know, wrote out. And then I actually did the exercise with the team as well. And we kind of went by category, like, what, what. What do we love in fabric? What do we love in, you know, building materials? What tile do we love? And a couple of different things came out of that. We. We rebuilt our library, which I think we can get to later.
But it also felt like I was starting to see some real themes in what we wanted to use and. And actually were using in different ways in projects.
And ultimately, it felt like a way to communicate our point of view from a sort of different angle than a portfolio. So at the end of last year, so in the. In the past, we've done sort of wish list slash gift guides. So each person on the team has put together a roundup of products that, like, they wouldn't mind being gifted, but also was just, you know, sharing product in the world. But this last Christmas or holiday season, we put together a sort of gift list for a number of the different items on our wish list and shared it on the blog and shared it on social media.
And each one, we used a project photo as the sort of grounding center and then selected products that spoke to that item. Some of the items are cork and burl patchwork marble. Like marble end papers. More than like the stone, though. We like the stone as well. Wicker and rattan. And I will say that each of these is one of my actually big moments, and I think a revelation that sort of helps explain why I didn't necessarily see the through line, is that each of these materials is something that's been around for a hundred years, right. Or more. And each of these materials has so many different ways that it can be used and applied.
So Victorian wicker with the curlicues versus 70s wicker.
[00:24:11] Speaker A: Right.
[00:24:12] Speaker D: And I love all of that. I love both. But if you're using wicker in every project, but every time it's from a different era. And if you're using marble in every project, and we. We don't use them on all in every project, but if you put marble paper, you know, as wallpaper on the ceiling versus as an applique on a piece of furniture, very different applications.
And so it felt like. It felt like sort of using them as this framework to share what we love helped sort of distill some of the essence of our work. And I will say, too, like, I shouldn't be surprised, like, knowing that I'm always going for timelessness, it shouldn't have been a big surprise that most of the materials that I love are literally, by definition, timeless and just have, like, so many different ways they can look and be used, and they can apply to almost any architecture, almost anyone's taste. And so that sort of, like, flexibility of material is. Is pretty incredible.
[00:25:16] Speaker B: I'm backtracking a little bit. As you were talking about starting this signature style discovery process with your team, and you had everyone really evaluate past projects, did you ask them what they would change about that project?
[00:25:30] Speaker D: I didn't, but I've thought about it.
[00:25:32] Speaker B: Like, if we were to do this today, now that we've leaned into the signature style, what could we have tweaked in this project to get it there?
[00:25:39] Speaker D: I will say we did the. So we had lucky timing where we were. We did a lot of this work just as we were going into a photo shoot. And so we did a group session where we essentially did what you're saying we Sat down, we looked through all of the scouting photos and said, okay, what might we tweak to make this more our voice?
And a couple interesting things that led to that one.
I had not worked with professional stylists until very recently. I've always done my own styling. And last year when I worked with a wonderful stylist, I learned that designers change a lot in their photo shoots sometimes. And I did not know this.
And it was a little bit, it was a little bit of a permission, I think, to style this shoot, to speak more in my voice than in the clients. But I will say it was this really funny process where, you know, someone on the team would make a suggestion about what we might change in a room and I would say, well, that's not very like the client.
And they kept saying, no, that's the point. You know, the client's voice is here, it's their home. But in telling the story of this project, we can use our styling to just make it like that much more leaning to our voice. And one thing that was really interesting was the client kept almost all of the changes. And I think the lesson there is about how far we're going in really sharing our vision with the client. And the space was beautiful. And then it was just like that Much more interesting when we added like a weirdo plug in sconce off to the side or just made some of those changes that shifted the vibe just a little bit.
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When you say just a little, I'm curious as to if you were to put a percentage on the things that made that extra mile happen to really get to the header. Heather Peterson vibe. Is that like the final 1%? Is it the final 10%? Like, how much did you really realize that you guys Were holding back before.
[00:29:00] Speaker D: I would say about 10%.
And I, I.
This is something that we are thinking about because I think there's a number of reasons for it. Some of that last layer that happens in a photo shoot, by the time you get there with a client, they're done, right? Like, by the time you get to install, they're done spending money. They're done making decisions. They just want to, like, have a break, right? We do not shoot on install. I know some designers do. We usually come back, you know, some amount of time later. Sometimes it's because in Minnesota, our, you know, shoot season is short. You don't want to shoot in the dead of winter. So if an install happens, you know, we'll come back in the spring. And so we have in the past had some success adding that kind of final layer of styling at the install when clients are a little more receptive. But. But I've always chosen things with the lens of what is so them.
And I think what was interesting was that having, in this shoot example, having that last layer be so me felt good to the client in the end.
[00:30:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I can absolutely imagine getting to the end and everything looks beautiful. And you're like, yes, I love this, but I was such a potentially collaborative part of getting it here. Like, this feels like me, and I totally, totally get that. I feel this even in my own home right now. I talked about it with Jason on his episode recently. I'm like, I just want you to come in and bring all of your weird, Like, I just need you to make my house that much cooler. And those are the things that, what? You know, when you're picking your furniture plans and even the lighting and all of those things, you're like, yes, this all makes sense. But then it's like, what is that cork that really takes it over the edge at the end? I'm curious if you refined your.
Honestly, your pricing process at all after making this discovery to allocate X percent of budget that, you know, you're holding on to, to do all these things at the end, or if you are bringing in stuff on your own, and then if the client chooses to purchase it, that's great.
[00:31:15] Speaker D: We have made a couple of changes to allow for this kind of final layer. So one is, we've just started.
We've changed so that our retainer that we take up front no longer. It used to go to design fees, but it now we hold it for the very end. And the idea is that it covers install day, like the, you know, our actual time for install day, those kind of like straggling freight charges, all of those things. With the idea being that, you know, when you're so done spending money, it feels nice. It's like that $20 that you find in your coat pocket, only it's a lot more than 20, but. And so now we're also thinking about the way. So the way that we accessorize at the photo shoot is we will bring things in. We have these what to expect guides that we share with clients. So the what to expect photo shoot we lay out that we will bring in accessories. They are not, you know, they don't have to keep anything. They can keep whatever they like. And we essentially bring style. It also just feels like a better reveal if it's, you know, that much more layered. But we, we like people to know upfront that there's no expectation because I think there's nothing, nothing worse than feeling upsold at the last moment.
So we lay that out in advance and then we leave things with a price list and they don't have to decide right then. And we have a designated day where we'll come back and pick up anything that they don't want and bill them for what they do. And if that can come out of that retainer, then it almost feels like free bonus.
[00:32:58] Speaker B: Absolutely. It's a lot easier to say yes to something you've already paid for than something you have to buy again. Yeah, I'm interested in the concept of you leave it with them. They don't have to decide that day. You leave the shopping list or the price list and then you come back and pick stuff up. How do you handle?
Like, okay, so let's say you're even picking it up next week. It's not like you're leaving it there a super long time, but they have a family and they have pets and damages or wear and tear can happen to those items. How are you protecting yourself that way? Because that's something that comes up a lot with our clients telling us about their experience with styling or photo shoot days. And they're like, well, now this, you know, this cool artisan made leather tray's got scratches all over it because they were putting their remotes in it or whatever it is.
[00:33:46] Speaker D: I will say two things about that. One, most of what we bring in is vintage, so it's pre loved and I'm not that worried about the scratches.
Two, it really depends on the client personality. And again, I don't want it to make them anxious. I want it to feel like a service and not a stressor.
So we usually know who those people are. And then we'll just arrange with them, you know, a spot in the house where if they are worried about things getting damaged, that they'll, you know, put everything they don't want, you know, on one shelf or whatever it might be, and then. And we'll go back pretty quickly to pick them up. And that feels like it's been pretty effective. And again, just making them know that they don't have to worry about the items feels like key. You know, a little bit of loss and shrinkage is not a big deal.
[00:34:38] Speaker B: Okay, so you are really known as, like the mix master for such a clear reason. Your range is just incredible. How do you reconcile having such a, like, wide aesthetic bandwidth with the desire to be moving towards a more cohesive design identity? Not cohesive design, but like the identity that you have defined.
[00:35:01] Speaker D: I used to think that you could either have a signature look or have range.
And I just look at some of my favorite designers and realize that I just was wrong.
So if you look at, like, David Netto, one of my favorites, incredible range, but also clear fingerprints.
[00:35:23] Speaker A: Right.
[00:35:24] Speaker D: So for him, it might be a combination of palette, like the way he uses primary colors, certain materials like wicker. And I think there's also. He's so great at articulating this, but I think there's also those fingerprints don't have to be materials. They can be the spirit. He recently did this series of posts on Instagram sharing some vignettes that he thinks are sort of show his signature style. And I don't.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: He.
[00:35:53] Speaker D: He had this sort of list of things that he considers signature. And I don't remember most of them, but one of them was a sense of optimism. And I just thought, yeah, right. Like, you feel that in his work. And so I think reframing what a signature is and that it can be. It doesn't have to mean that everything looks the same, but that it's a combination of strategies the way put things together. Certain things that are pretty hard to see unless you look for it. Like, I really love when fancy things are made not fancy. And the other way around, right? Like. Like a denim tuxedo, just as an example. And so you start to see it if you're. You're looking for it. And so, yeah, and so I think, like, the big revelation was that they. They don't have to be in conflict.
One way that I sort of saw that was when we did our website revamp, our portfolio page, like many designers has, you Know, sort of thumbnail images of each project.
And I used to pick the. For that thumbnail, the image that was most different, like, the image of that project that was most. The client. But if I went through and chose my favorite image from each project and put them on the portfolio page, all of a sudden it almost looks like some of them could be the same house. And those favorite images are likely the ones that have the most of my fingerprints.
[00:37:22] Speaker A: Right.
[00:37:23] Speaker D: And so then I think you start to see those through lines. The other thing that I think was really freeing and really important is I used to literally not repeat anything ever.
Like, if I had used a fabric, I would not use it ever again. That is kind of limiting. I mean, I, you know, I always sort of felt like, well, there's just so much to use.
But if you look at, I don't know, Tom Shearer and the way he uses Noguchi lanterns, like, in everything. But it's not boring, you know, it's him. But it's not like that house feel like one, house feels like another.
And I finally realized that actually giving myself permission to repeat freed up creative energy to push the envelope elsewhere.
[00:38:09] Speaker A: Right.
[00:38:09] Speaker D: And so flipping it again from, like, a bad thing to a good thing.
[00:38:14] Speaker B: Yeah. One of the things that you just said that really is resonating with me. I'd call it the signatures, or as you called it, the thumbprints or the fingerprints throughout the project of your signature. It really starts to feel like your signature can be the intangibles. You gave the example of David and his signature. One of the things he called out was optimism. And that's an intangible. That's not a material. That's not a specific era. It's none of those things. It's the intangible. And so to really think about that as you're trying to define your signature style, that might give you a little more freedom to say, hey, I don't have to say no to every other project except for project number three, because it's out of my signature style. You can start to weave those intangibles into those other projects.
[00:39:08] Speaker D: Yeah. And it means that you're really building a framework that works on any project.
[00:39:13] Speaker A: Right.
[00:39:13] Speaker D: As long as the client is on board.
And I would say, you know, one of ours is warmth.
[00:39:19] Speaker A: Right.
[00:39:20] Speaker D: And, like, when you look at that love list, everything on it is warm. Also, the handmade, Right. Patchwork, marble, paper. These are handmade things that will always be unique. And actually, this is interesting thinking about vulnerability and sort of what's popular and all. And what's considered good and all of that. When we shot my house towards the end of last year and the stylist was, you know, planning what to bring, she said, just very matter of factly, she said, you know, there's a lot of joy in your house already. And I had this kind of funny reaction of, like, embarrassment or something where I thought, because I think joy in interiors should always be in style. But it. It maybe didn't feel like it was, like, the vibe at the moment. And then I had to sort of shake myself out of that because, like, what a compliment, really, you know? But it's interesting to think about that vulnerability of owning those kind of fingerprints and those intangibles.
[00:40:18] Speaker A: Right?
[00:40:19] Speaker D: Like, of course people want joy in their interior design. Like, own it.
[00:40:23] Speaker B: I have a technical question. You said that you used to do your own styling, and now you. More recently, you've been working with a stylist. You just mentioned you were talking to stylist who found joy sprinkle throughout your house already and figuring out what they were going to bring. Can you walk us through, in your experience working with a stylist who is picking out that last 10% that's coming onto a project?
How much of that 10% is you and your team picking, and how much are you having the stylist bring in and then is being purchased from them?
[00:40:54] Speaker D: For us, it really depends on where the shoot is happening. The reason I started hiring professionals was because we were styling projects in California, and it just was logistically impossible for me to do. Actually, the first project that I. The first project, second project that I shot in California, I borrowed everything from the first project that I did in California, and I do not recommend that method. So last year, last couple of years, we had, I guess, two shoots in Tahoe and brought in a stylist, and we really had her do all of that last layer.
And for me, that means, I mean, we already in those projects. Like, we really will do, like, custom pillows, art in vacation homes, like that. We'll do the dishes. Like, we've already done a lot of that kind of styling layer. But if clients have, let's say, done their own bath towels, for whatever reason, they just didn't want us to do it. We had the stylist do all of those things, and it ended up being this wonderful service for the clients because they bought everything.
[00:42:02] Speaker B: Yeah, okay, perfect. That's super helpful and explaining why you would have the stylist and just what to expect from the stylist. That is really helpful as well, I will say too.
[00:42:13] Speaker D: I mean, I think it depends on who you hire and I think it's a great question to ask. There are some stylists who really mainly do florals and others who will do, you know, who will bring the rubber ducky for the tub and all of that.
And so asking great questions and leaning into their process will give you the best result.
[00:42:32] Speaker B: This is going to be a very ballpark question. Obviously I don't want you like sharing anyone's specific rates, but as people are like, oh my God, a photo shoot is so expensive. You know, I'm spending $10,000 for the photo shoot. Now I have to bring in a stylist. In comparison, if you had to do a ratio or a percentage of how much of that budget goes to photo shoot to the photographer versus the stylist. Do you have like a guest?
[00:42:55] Speaker D: I think typical style. I mean, obviously different markets range both for photography and stylists. Most of the stylists we've worked with I think have been sort of 12 to 1500 a day, but then they might have an assistant for, I don't know, 500.
I think a typical floral budget is around 800 to a thousand for the shoot. And then everybody handles their accessories differently. You know, in some cases they might rent, in some cases they might, you know, borrow and return or buy and return.
And so I think if you're keeping a really tight eye on your budget for a shoot to make sure that you're signing off on, you know, real numbers for those things up front and having clarity. I will say for my own house, I, I had my stylist mainly focus on floral and vessels and I just thought, you know, oh, I have so many things and it's my own house. But I realized that I spent so much more money like obsessing over finishing it than if I had just let her do it and I probably would have loved it and bought. You know, it's always great to have another eye and another lens and I lean on my team that way. But it's just. Yeah. So I would say it really is worth it for the right shoots. We don't, we don't bring someone in on every single shoot.
[00:44:19] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Okay. I know we are running out of time and I have some rapid fire questions. So I'm going to be like, just because it's so helpful for everybody listening real quick, how many people are on your team and what are their roles? Like, how is your corporate structure?
[00:44:32] Speaker D: There are four of us full time senior Designer, interior designer, director of operations and myself. And then we have a contract bookkeeper and a contract graphic designer and a contract PR person.
[00:44:47] Speaker B: Can you explain what your contract graphic designer does? That is not someone I have heard listed in a single interview I've ever done.
[00:44:56] Speaker D: Well, I guess, I mean she's not on, she's not monthly retainer the way you know, PR person, but she, she did our website, she does, you know, our yard signs. When we have an event, she'll do the invites and she's been with me from the beginning and so she just has like such a deep understanding of the brand. Also we did a print piece with her, like a 70 page magazine kind of lookbook.
So yeah, I mean I love all of that print identity. So I feel like I'm always finding more for her to do.
[00:45:32] Speaker B: I love that everyone hire a graphic designer. Idiko's available. But I think that that is so cool that you actually had that like in your lineup. Even though like you said it's like contract on an as needed basis.
[00:45:45] Speaker D: But I totally consider her part of the team in, in that way, you know.
[00:45:49] Speaker B: Interesting. Did your graphic designer participate in, in the signature style exploration or was that more to your designers and like your, you know, like your employee staff?
[00:46:01] Speaker D: That was just employee staff. Yeah, but I should ask her because it would be so interesting to get her perspective.
[00:46:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna follow back up with you and see what she said. Okay, so let's talk about hiring when and if you are looking for team members.
Are you looking for team members whose signature style aligns with yours, brings new ideas, or can be molded to understand yours?
[00:46:25] Speaker D: This is an excellent question.
I had the really challenging experience of having to part ways with a designer on my team because of this and it's tough. I mean, she was with me for a long time.
Such a great worker, such a wonderful person.
We were no longer aligned creatively and we really worked hard at it. But there came a point where I just realized, you know, the creative does have to align and that can happen a number of different ways.
My senior designer, we like a lot of the same things and I think she's been very adept at learning how I put them together.
And then my interior designer, since she's only worked for me, has completely been a sponge and you know, she still has, she's young, she has a youthful perspective and, and I love that. But I can definitely see my influence on her taste as she's grown with me.
So in the past, I've never done a sort of creative test or creative exercise in hiring, But I think I would in the. In the future.
I don't know exactly what that would look like, but I've just found that, like, you know, there's always going to be that Venn diagram. Like, no one who's going to work for me is going to. We're not. I don't want carbon copies. I want new ideas. But we have to have a pretty strong overlap.
[00:47:51] Speaker B: Do you foresee this newly defined or. Newly. Yeah, defined is the right word. Signature style evolving even further, or do you feel like this is really the start of a more permanent identity for your studio?
[00:48:06] Speaker D: I hope it's the start of a more permanent identity, because really, when it comes down to it, it hasn't been about change so much as it's been about recognizing and accepting and communicating what we really love.
And I imagine that that list will always expand because there is always great new product. But I do think that this is who we are, and it's great.
[00:48:37] Speaker B: What is something that you used to feel like you had to include in your projects that you've since let go in favor of your more defined vision?
[00:48:48] Speaker D: Marble look. Countertop.
[00:48:50] Speaker B: Good one. Good one.
[00:48:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Right.
[00:48:52] Speaker D: I feel like no more. And I think that was just being, like, client responsive. And so basically, like, so many people want that, right? Like, they want the marble look, but they don't want real marble. And so what I used to do was just find the best version.
[00:49:06] Speaker A: Right.
[00:49:06] Speaker D: But we. When we revamped our library so this was part of the process, we realized that our. I didn't used to keep a library at all, and then just realized that our library should support. Support scheming what we love. Like, we realized that we didn't have a piece of cork in the library.
[00:49:23] Speaker A: Right.
[00:49:24] Speaker D: So now we do. But I realized that I had all these countertop samples that I just didn't really like, so we got rid of them. And I realized that instead of just finding the best version, you know, we know about so many more products than clients do. And so just taking the opportunity to say, if you want quartz, let's have it look like quartz.
Here's a solid, right? Instead of let's and let's pretend it's something else.
So just good lesson. Right now, at the end of the day, it's their house, and if that's what they want, then, yes, I will give them the best version. But to skip that step of offering a different way of thinking about it is a miss.
[00:50:04] Speaker B: That's such a great case study. Example, if you want quartz, let's make it look like quartz and we'll make it look awesome, but it's not going to look like marble. Yeah. Okay. And as we wrap up, very last thing, what is one design element you are loving right now that might not be in at the moment, but you're using it anyway because it just freaking feels right.
[00:50:24] Speaker D: We are really loving industrial, less finished kitchens with stainless steel appliances that look like appliances. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love a beautiful kitchen. We've done many, you know, that are fully kitted out, but I love that sort of like European.
The appliances came with me to the new house and they land where they land and the cabinets don't match and that whole sort of industrial put together vibe feels great in a kitchen to me right now.
[00:50:55] Speaker B: That is so cool. Well, Heather, this was amazing.
I have really enjoyed our time. I wrote down so many notes that I want to bring back to my own team. Just thank you, thank you for this conversation.
[00:51:07] Speaker D: Thanks for having me. It's just been really fun to talk to you.
[00:51:11] Speaker B: I am sure I will talk to you soon because I have a lot of follow up questions that I couldn't fit into an hour. So I will be emailing you shortly anytime.
[00:51:18] Speaker D: Sounds great.
[00:51:20] Speaker C: For more in depth analysis of this interview including exclusive downloads, examples and more, don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] the Interior Collective thank you so so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations.
A big huge thank you to our production team at IDCO Studio and Quinn made. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and and the biggest thank you to you our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible.
Until next time. I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective. A podcast for the business of beautiful living.
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