[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Hey, welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host Anastasia Casey. And today Melissa Oholent of Oho Interiors is back for her second conversation on the show. Melissa launched Oho Interiors in 2019 after a career that moved from corporate finance to wedding photography to interior photography to design.
She has been featured in Architectural Digest, House Beautiful, Rue Homes and Gardens, in the Wall Street Journal.
She runs a 10 person studio spread across offices in Minneapolis and Black Forest, Colorado. We have covered trade, vendor relationships and procurement with Melissa before and I encourage you to go back and listen to that episode. I'll link it in the show notes. But today we are talking about how she has grown this firm, the strategy behind it, what she has done well and what she might have gotten wrong. But most importantly, the philosophy that underpins all of it. The idea that the best sales process is one that the client never feels deals sold to.
From her social media and marketing all the way through the final client experience, Melissa has built a system that creates trust and buy in at every touch point. Today she's going to walk us through exactly how that all works.
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[email protected] this episode is brought to you by Laloy. A new season means new rugs, pillows and designs to discover. And if you're headed to High Point Market, there's even more to see in person. Explore what's new and plan your market visit@laloy rugs.com hello Melissa, welcome to the show. I'm so glad to have you back and I am just awesome Cloud nine because I get to talk to you today.
[00:01:54] Speaker A: Oh, same. This is. I've been looking forward to this for weeks now, so I love it.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: Okay, let's dive right in today's topic. You are so gracious for volunteering to cover this. I know everyone is going to be taking notes furiously throughout. But just to get everybody a quick baseline, update us on where OHO is today. The team size, also the team location because that has shifted a bit project load and what your focus has really been on.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So we are, I think last time we talked there were probably half of us. Right now, right now we are a team of 10.
We do very large scale custom projects from California to the east coast and beyond if asked if anyone wants us to.
But we love highly custom functional Design for our clients that's really rooted in traditional design, especially kind of cottage aesthetic.
But that's kind of what we're up to. We're doing projects kind of all across the country at this moment and just kind of doing our thing. Heads down.
[00:03:03] Speaker B: I also feel like you're very like, press forward right now. I feel like you have been on just like this PR tour. I mean, I got to see you in Austin at Four Hands a couple weeks ago for business of home. I guess it's probably more than a couple weeks ago. Um, but recently, and I'm about to email you separately about High Point, and it just does seem like we've gotten a lot of FaceTime with you recently.
[00:03:26] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's definitely been a strategy as of late to kind of get out there in the industry. And I. I blush and sweat whenever someone is like, I've seen your name a lot recently. I've been like, I'm so sorry. But, but it's good. It means our PR team's doing their thing, so.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: Absolutely. Okay. Um, and you know, I'm always going to ask the billing questions as a firm. How are you guys handling billing these days? Flat rate, hourly combination, and also I want to know, how are you proposing said billing? How are you doing a full proposal up front? Is it flat fee number that you're giving them? Is it just like an open range? What does that look like?
[00:04:06] Speaker A: Yeah, so we bill hourly for everything, so down into the 15 minute increment. And we have a structured hourly rate based on kind of city seniority within the firm and then how we're delivering that news to the clients or, you know, letting them know that before they sign on with us, is that I don't deliver a formal proposal, which I know sometimes is a surprise for people, especially people in our industry who do deliver proposals. But that is a strategy that I have kind of tried to avoid in that I just give our potential clients a range based on whether they're doing a new construction project or whether they're doing a renovation project. And then we do our internal tracking to make sure that we. Those ranges are accurate. And for the most part, they almost always are.
[00:04:53] Speaker B: Okay. And I know that we will get into this in more detail as we're talking about selling without selling, because that blows my mind. Before we started recording, I told you that I just recorded with Tiffany from Tiffany Lee Design. She also doesn't do formal proposals. So the fact that I have two heavy hitters back to back saying they're not Doing proposals is like, throwing me for a loop also. Okay, now that you're at 10, can you talk us through your team structure? Like, what are you overseeing? I know you have a business partner. What are they overseeing? And then how does that break down from a design team perspective?
[00:05:28] Speaker A: Yeah, so we just. From a structure perspective. Back in. Gosh, last year, I guess it was early last year, I brought Grace into the business, and she is my business partner. She really handles kind of all of the operations, marketing, partnerships side of the business, which really allows me to lean into my zone of genius, which is the design client experience thing.
I still obviously am kind of over everything, but she was able to take those hats off my plate, especially as we're talking about things like insurance audits or 401k programs and, you know, things like that that I don't have a brain for.
So right now, I. We have really leaned into me being the creative director of the firm, which has worked out really nicely for us. We have three senior designers and two associate designers, and then we have a procurement coordinator and then two design assistants that kind of work on the operations side.
And that really is the kind of extent of our team. We have six designer or six design.
Well, five designers, me as creative director. So six of us on the design side, and then four of us on the kind of ops, procurement, marketing side.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: How does that size flow feel to you? Do you feel like you guys are going to still be growing, or do you feel like you're at a sweet spot?
[00:06:49] Speaker A: So we are hiring for a senior designer position right now just based on kind of what we're seeing come down the pipeline for fall projects, which probably will mean that we will also be hiring an associate designer or putting one of our design assistants into that position.
I think that the scale of the firm is larger than what I maybe initially thought I would have from a design perspective. I always knew that if we were able to pursue kind of the partnerships, marketing piece, that that side of the business would have to grow. But I think where we're at from a. I think with this final hire, I think we will be at a really good size from a design firm perspective. And I don't. I don't necessarily see us growing much beyond that on the design side of the side of things.
[00:07:35] Speaker B: Okay, so that's pretty substantial exponential growth, considering you launched in 2019, right before COVID which meant your business exploded almost immediately, as the industry did. Looking back at that period, how much of what happened for OHO was strategy and how much of it was just being in the right place at the right time.
[00:07:58] Speaker A: Oh my gosh. I was just having a conversation with a friend about the same topic who started at the same kind of time period. And I don't want to undersell how incredible that time was for our business. Obviously it was a awful thing for the world in general, but that was such a booming time to be on the cusp of starting a new design business.
So I don't want to undersell the things that that did for me to kind of launch me straight out of a canon in good and bad ways.
I will say that none of what happened in those early years I would call strategy in hindsight. None of it. Absolutely none of it.
But it really, you know, looking back, the way that I approached my business then, did not have strategy. And so what I did find is that by the time we were kind of, I was making my first hire in 2022, that's when I really did have to put that strategy into place to take all of the growth that had happened in that time, in that Covid time period, and turn it into an actual business. Because at that, prior to that, it was just, you know, flying by the seat of my pants and building the plane as I was flying it and all of the metaphors and analogies, it just was. It was. There was no strategy. I will say, okay, you just said
[00:09:14] Speaker B: your first hire wasn't until 2022. So that means you've grown to 10 in four years. That's. That is fast. That is fast and it's very impressive. Your career went from corporate finance to wedding photography to interior photography to finally interior design, where we hope you will remain forever. What.
What did each of those chapters teach you about business that you've been able to carry over to Oho.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a such a good question.
And I have been reflecting on that a lot lately. I think my time in finance really brought me the experience of being able to speak to money in a way that doesn't feel threatening and in a way that doesn't feel overly complicated. And also from my end, it just got me very, very comfortable. I never grew up kind of talking about money, always kind of instigated a fight, honestly in my household. And so I kind of grew up being a little fearful of money conversations. And so that career in finance really gave me the opportunity to get comfortable, to have those conversations about money and also be able to work around people who were operating in a higher net worth than I can operate in even currently.
And it gave me Kind of a comfort level of being in those rooms and speaking to those dollar amounts without kind of blushing or feeling really uncomfortable, which is a incredible value add in this industry. Because I still am not at the net worth that my clients are at. I may never catch up to.
That's kind of the hope, in some ways, is that they keep outpacing. But from a photography perspective, that was a masterclass in hospitality, really. And servicing clients in a way that doesn't feel like you're just a service vendor or service provider that they've hired, but in a way that makes it feel exactly like I want our client experience to feel now, which is very much akin to us taking you through a process in a way that is incredibly catered to who you are, incredibly personalized, but never feels like we're just showing up and checking off a box and moving on. Like, it very much becomes kind of a family mentality, if you will.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: Okay, so this next question is interesting because based off of your career timeline, launching in 2019, that certainly wasn't the infancy of Instagram by any means, but it was still, I feel, a bit of Instagram's heyday where growth was, like, really achievable.
Yeah. So in your early days as a designer, you also built an organic social media following that was very loyal and engaged by showcasing the design process of your own home.
What did that do for the eventual launch of your professional design career?
[00:12:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, I had.
I had really built, kind of stumbled into design from a perspective that I'd always loved design. I initially started going to school to be a designer and then got talked out of it and kind of put it away as. As an option for my life, but I had always loved it. And so it was this undercurrent in my life. So when we were renovating our own home and kind of figuring out, like, what. What's next for us, and this was pre me starting a business, that kind of thought process of like, okay, maybe this could be a thing. I have imposter syndrome. I'll figure it out. But we handled a lot of those things kind of from a DIY perspective. It really was the, like, I feel like 2018, 2017, like, really was that heyday of like, I'm gonna do it myself.
And so there was a lot of kind of that. That's what I was putting out there. And so when I first started my business and we had bought a new house and were fully gut renovating this new house, it really was me. And due to Rising build costs because of COVID It was really us taking on a lot of the work to save on money and to make our dollar go further. And so what I found is that a lot of the audience that I kind of gathered at that time craved that DIY and craved that, like, how can I get high design without spending a lot of money? And so that's when I talk about that strategy in kind of 2020 to 2023. Really had to shift for. From something that was like, here's how we achieve design on a budget to, oh, no, no, that's actually, I don't want our clients to be painting their own homes. Like, I need them to be hiring painters to achieve that, you know, finish level that we want also. No, I don't want our clients to be like, you know, screenshotting and shopping us on Google. Like, I want a client who wants to lean into that experience. And so that's kind of where that shift had to happen.
And so while I think that there was a really beautiful thing in building that audience, and it was an incredible, loyal audience, and so many of those followers, you know, will comment all the time of like, I've been following you since the photography days, but I think our shift into who we were selling to on our Instagram really had to shift completely from away from the person who's more budget minded to a person who's looking for a luxury service for sure.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: Okay, that leads me to my next question so nicely. Thank you.
Your aesthetic at OHO is very, very recognizable. And you are on the side of firms that absolutely has a signature aesthetic.
Before we get into the business side of things, can you describe in your words what oho's point of view actually is and really how you arrived at that?
[00:14:58] Speaker A: You know, we have a very signature aesthetic in that traditional cottage influenced by English and European design, kind of, you know, nothing's too precious mentality that can swing so much from, you know, a very neutral Belgian farmhouse kind of feel all the way into kind of like deep, moody English country house, you know, wealthy aristocrat kind of vibe.
That's a pretty big range. But I do tell clients that if they come to us and they kind of want that, you know, very southern layered, you know, wicker and rattan kind of vibe, like, that's still within the traditional wheelhouse, we can still very much execute on that same. If they kind of want that, like, New England caning, you know, that early American kind of colonial vibe, like, we can very much achieve that. And so I, I think so much of that had to come from, honestly, my days in photography and knowing that leaning into a niche and, you know, really like, niching down and serving a specific clientele would serve us endlessly from a branding perspective. And so that. That really came from me. My internal.
My internal sort of design sense really does come from loving cottage traditional interiors. And so I've sort of forced that on everyone in my firm that, you know, you don't really join OHO unless you kind of love that design, because that is what we're known for. That is something that, like, from a strategy perspective, was a very per, you know, very specific choice to lean into that cottage traditional design. For sure.
[00:16:32] Speaker B: When you look at where OHO is today versus where you thought it would be at this point, what surprises you
[00:16:38] Speaker A: most probably how much management, honestly, has to be done and how much I. And I think also how much strategy we've had to lean into for our social media. Because for a while, it was just me and it was so organic and it was so whatever I was doing and whatever I, you know, came into my brain in that moment. And now we have to be so strategic about things and that, you know, some of it, we've done a lot to really keep the magic of what I love about Instagram, but it being so strategic that that piece of the puzzle has surprised me.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: Okay, let's get into today's topic, because, like I said, this is one of those episodes that I know people will listen to three times over. So what do you mean when you say selling without selling? When did you first realize that that was the philosophy behind how OHO operates?
What does that mean?
[00:17:34] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. Yeah. So I will tell anyone who will listen to me, I'm the least salesy person you've ever met in your life.
I don't enjoy a sales process. Like, buying a car is literally my worst nightmare on earth because of the experience that you kind of get when you're being sold to. I don't appreciate that in general. And so I've always known. I never want our clients to feel like we're selling them something, like, ever. That is, like, baseline client experience. It should never feel like, oh, ho comes to the table and is trying to sell us something. And it should feel like exactly the ethos of what OHO was built on in that we believe that great design can change lives.
Now, part of that naturally has to be that we are selling you things like that. That has to be a part of the process because that's how we create These beautiful interiors. But I never want the client along the way to feel like, here comes oho with another sales pitch. And so that has been effectively the ribbon that has been woven through every single piece of strategy that we have built in our client experience. From the point at which we are putting things out on Instagram, which is our biggest and most powerful marketing tool, to the, you know, two years after we've worked with a client and we're still in contact with them, that the selling without selling mentality is exactly what is woven through our business. And that just means, like, making our clients feel utterly cared for and loved in a way that we actually truly do, while we are trying to add value in their life by bringing things into their life that naturally kind of have to be sold to them through the process.
[00:19:12] Speaker B: You have said that this process truly starts before you were even aware of a potential client. Can you walk us through where in your mind it actually begins? And is it your marketing, your social media? And. And what are you trying to accomplish at that stage to kind of like plant that seed subconsciously without ever intentionally planting a seed?
[00:19:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's convoluted.
I would say that it very much starts at our social media, which is, again, like I said, our most powerful tool, our marketing tool at this point. Like, probably, I think we did the numbers the other day. It's like 90% of our new inquiries come organically from Instagram.
We don't. We also don't put any dollars into Instagram from a promotional perspective as a strategy. It just, you know, is part of how we've chosen to operate. But when we kind of approach that, we know that there are people that have been, like I said, following since the photography days that are like, one day when I build a house, I want to hire you, or one day when I have a project, I want to hire you.
Also. Additionally, we know that there are people who stumble upon our page just because these are some of our current clients stumble onto our page. And within a 24 hours, you know, they're sort of out for. On a hunt for an interior Designer. And within 24 hours of a follow, I see an inquiry form come into our, you know, our inbox. And so I know that they're kind of actively looking. And so I know that they're like, we have either a long Runway to kind of market to someone, or we have a very short Runway to market to someone. And so I know that, like, whatever we are putting out there on that Instagram should really be sort of our Sales funnel of bringing them into the door, of making them feel like, oh, I love this team.
Oh, I love their esthetic. Oh, I love what they're doing and naturally kind of bring them into the door so that by the time they are thinking about a project or if they already have a project on the horizon, that we're their first kind of phone call.
[00:21:15] Speaker B: Okay, so I think you're not dissimilar to a lot of designers listening that Instagram has proven likely their most powerful marketing tool. But what I'm hearing that's so fascinating is that you're hyper aware of that and you are really considering the strategy behind. Okay, what are we sharing? So how do you think that your Instagram presence specific specifically, what are you contributing to your Instagram presence specifically that works as a trust building tool rather than just a portfolio? Because like you said, someone is searching for a designer, they come across oho, they follow you and you're seeing someone inquire within 24 hours, what do you feel like you're putting out there that allows them to see something within 24 hours in your feed that it's like, yes, we've told our story, they understand our team.
What, how are you building that trust?
[00:22:13] Speaker A: Yeah, it's incredibly multifaceted, so I'll try to kind of break it down into pieces. We kind of consider there are three different audiences to our Instagram, one being very much our target client. The people that we know are, you know, can't afford us. They want that oho aesthetic and they're either watching from a distance or they're going to come onto our page and immediately say like, yes, this, this is who I want to reach out to.
We also know that there is a certain, you know, subset of the audience that really does love what we do, but maybe can't afford to bring us into their home on a full service, you know, mentality. So they might either be a great candidate for our, you know, expert consulting services or they might be someone who eventually can be served by larger partnerships with other brands, you know, lighting brands, furniture brands of things that we can bring direct to consumer. And also occasionally we have holiday. Well, every year we've had a holiday market for the last two years. And so that is another consumer that we can serve. And then we also know that we kind of have our, you know, our people that may never ever do any piece of the other two, but they still love design and they want to be educated by that. And, and so we've made a real effort in both our Stories and our feed to make sure that we're serving every single person, knowing that like we can't serve everyone at the same time, but we don't with the content we're putting out. We never want to alienate one of those, you know, three people enough that they would be like, oh, unfollow this person. This is unrelatable to them, to me. So if you look at our feed, you'll very much see that there's a combination of kind of like things that were up to to on the daily. So we do kind of a this month with OHO gathering of videos from our team of just like the things that we're doing. Site visits, redlining, cabinetry, drawings, you know, just kind of a collection of what we were up to that month. Gives you a picture into the firm's personality, but also kind of just the day to day inner workings of a design firm, which a lot of people are like, what even happens on a day to day basis? What does your day to day look like?
But then we also have things that are very much like this is what a photo shoot looks like. And then we very much have this is what the finished product looks like. And so we're really kind of targeting marketing people from every angle of like, do you, are you curious? Do you want to see what it looks like to work with us? Do you want to see what our team's like? We're kind of trying to target them in a very holistic, rounded way.
[00:24:41] Speaker B: By the time someone reaches out to oho, what do you want them to already know, believe, feel before you ever even get on a call with them.
[00:24:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I feel like I would love if everyone.
This is going to sound really silly. Maybe I want them to know that we are serious about design, but we don't take ourselves too seriously. And so like a from that you can extrapolate like we're going to provide a great experience for you. We're going to be fun to work with. You're also seeing on our feed that like we are serious about making sure that that design that we are presenting to someone actually can happen in real life. And so those pieces of the puzzle of the technical management, of the, you know, design, project management, we are in the weeds of that we are picking, you know, the, the doorstop on your pocket door. Like we, you know, we're picking all of the things that like are very, very technical, that people are like, wow, I had no idea that there were a hundred decisions that go into that one thing.
We're Calling that out in a way that doesn't feel like in your face, like you don't want to do this hire us kind of way. Again, feeling a little salesy of like, these are the things you don't want to do. Hire us because you don't want to do those things. But rather a look at all the steps that it takes to get to this point. Here's what an electrical walkthrough looks like. Here's all the things that we do with an electrical walkthrough and just let them make that conclusion from. For themselves of like, holy cow. I don't actually want to make all those decisions or have the capabilities to make all those decisions or create those drawings for the electrician, you know, so that's. Sorry. All to say, I want people to know that we're a lot of fun but we take design very, very seriously as well.
[00:26:29] Speaker B: Can you walk us through the client experience journey from that initial inquiry to a signed contract at oho? What are the moments in that sequence when you were building trust and creating buy in without it feeling like a pitch, especially if you didn't give them a propos.
[00:26:49] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: How do we not have to give proposals? That's what we want to know.
[00:26:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I. The magic of not having to do that is, is there's something there. And I'm. And to be candid, I'm sure we lose people in, in that kind of our methodology behind that who might receive a more fleshed out proposal or a more guaranteed kind of, you know, design fee from someone and be like, that's actually What I want versus, you know, someone who might be like a 3 to 8% range on a $3 million build is a pretty large range. You know, like, I'm uncomfortable with that range.
So candidly, I know that we are probably losing people who want that certainty.
My hope is that we can persuade them in other ways. But to walk you through the process really when they first inquire on our. And we try to funnel, you know, if we get inquiries through our Instagram DMs, which I am almost always the person who answers our Instagram DM' so anytime we get an inquiry in our DMs, I'm trying to funnel them to the website because I am historically the worst at dms, but we try to funnel them through the website. And then I had a very kind of formative experience when we were looking for our own architect for, you know, our, our own personal home build.
I had reached out to three different architects that I had admired for years and years. I mean, like, people who have coffee table books, level of experience, people who are very famous in the architect and design world, thinking, like, I'm just gonna shoot my shot, let's see what happens.
Of the three that I reached out to, there was only one architecture firm that I was able to actually connect with one of the founding partners of the architecture firm with ease.
And that was a very, again, formative kind of moment for me. Because what I realized, and I had to date, I had still been handling all of our inquiry calls, but I had been on the cusp of like, should I have a gatekeeper between me and that potential client? And that, that experience really solidified for me that, like, having that instant access to a business owner, to someone I've admired, to someone I've watched was incredibly.
It made me know that I would be taken care of and I could always reach out to them. And that ended up being the design or the architecture firm that we ended up hiring for our project because of that experience and because he took our project, which I knew was going to be smaller than their average project, and he took it and cared for it in a way that, like, from the very get go, I wanted clients to feel that from us, from the very get go. And so I, I still handle all of our inquiries. I still handle the inquiry from the moment it reaches our inbox. I reply to them as if I'm Team Oho.
It's me. It's always me. So just, you know, it's me.
I'm spoiling that and taking down the curtain there. But I will reply, I will set up a call. I, you know, it either is virtual or a phone call, just depending on their comfort level.
And then we have that inquiry call. I usually spend 30 to 45 minutes. And then I just, just really sit and ask questions and listen for the vast majority of the time. And then by the time I'm asking them, like, hey, do you have any questions for me? What I was finding is that most people were like, oh, I've been following you for years. I know exactly who you are. I super trust you.
Sometimes we have someone who's like, okay, well what is the next part of this process? Do you come to my house? Do you send me a proposal? And so I always walk through the process of like, here's what the next steps are, here's what our design fees look like. Here's, you know, kind of all of the basis of what you need to know. And then I send them an investment Guide. And our investment guide very much kind of outlines our process, outlines a lot of what we already talked about, outlines that kind of those ranges that I Talked about, the 3 to 8% for new construction, for design fees, and then for renovations, it's typically 10 to 20%.
Now, often, just because I'm throwing numbers out there, I know that that might prompt some questions. I think that that's always a question of what the scope is of where someone's going to land in that range. And so I always try to caveat that, caveat that in the conversation.
But then I send them that investment guide from my personal email so they always have access. And I always say to them, like, hey, we. And this is kind of baked into who OHO is. We are very Midwestern, kind of, you know, minded in the respect that, like, we don't want to spend anyone's money, how we wouldn't spend our own money. And so I always want clients to feel like we will be as fiscally responsible with your money as we would be with our own. And so I, I do say that to every single client, like, hey, this is a big investment.
This is something that we completely respect. We never want to push you outside of where you feel comfortable. Here's kind of the baseline of what these things cost, what you're asking for, but outside of that, like, I want you to have my email. I want you to feel like you can always utilize. And sometimes when I'm calling them on my cell phone, I'm like, this is my cell phone number. So like to make your decision. If there's any information I can provide to you, please let me know if there's another call you want to hop on. Let's. I'm happy to do that. So I always make it very much a. Like, I'm an open book. I'm an open person. I want you to have that experience. And then if they decide to sign on with us, I walk them through the contract process, the retainer process. Our back end will kind of take care of setting up all those things for me so that I can just throw it at them when they're ready. And then when we get to the point where they have signed on, they get a kickoff email from me introducing them to their design team. If I'm not the person leading their project, I only lead probably one to two projects a year at this point.
[00:32:30] Speaker B: If you've been running your firm for a few years now, you've probably got a system in place. And I do use that term loosely. It's going to be a mix of apps, some spreadsheets, maybe a project management tool that was close but never quite right. And you are still the one holding it all together. But here's the thing. Most tools were not built for the way interior designers actually deliver projects. Materio was concept to handoff approvals to procurement to billing with Quickbook sync built right in one connected workflow Interior Collective listeners get 50% off their first month at getmaterio.com free for 14 days. No credit card required. That's M A T E r I o getmaterio.com Today's episode is brought to you by Laloy. If you're headed to High Point Market, join Laloy on October 18th at the High Point Market Theater for Best in Design, featuring Amber Lewis, Jeremiah Brent and Jean Stouffer in a conversation celebrating standout design and the people shaping the industry. While you're at Market, stop by laloy to see the latest rugs, pillows and new introductions to for the season. Learn more and plan your visit@laloy rugs.com okay, so let's talk about having the budget conversation when it comes to, like, furnishings, because I understand you said 3 to 8% for a new bill is where your design fees typically fall and then 10 to 20 for a renovation.
How I know that people, particularly right now in this economy, in this market, people are finding that they're getting to a point in a project where suddenly furnishings are being cut because other things have gone up or people suddenly maybe don't have as much liquidity as they did when they signed on. So how are you handling budget conversations when it comes to furnishings? How early on are you having that and how, how open are you about it in an attempt to desensitize those financial discussions?
[00:34:33] Speaker A: Yeah, we are. I again, sort of the mentality of like I have gotten comfortable with those money conversations. And so we make effort to make our clients as comfortable as possible with those money conversations. And part of that is really the shock value of having them early and often.
So I'm asking about their budget at the inquiry call at our kickoff meeting, we are talking about budgets in depth. We are often bringing in kind of a furniture calculator piece of the puzzle and also a finished budget calculator as especially as we're designing. And so we are constantly kind of showing them, like, here's what you're asking for, here's what your living room looks like. Here's what all of those pieces add up to. Here's the flat fee for freight that you're going to see, here's the tax dollar, here's the amount for styling and accessories so that we can kind of get them customized to those prices and just seeing those high numbers before we're ever putting a proposal in front of them. Because I feel like oftentimes I hear from friends, like, how do you not get, you know, how do people not push back as much as we're getting pushback on. On the freight fee? And I think it's because we are talking about it early and often and saying this is just the cost of what it is. I'm talking about it in the contract part. It's laid out in our contract, but I'm also addressing it in our contract kind of experience as well. And so I think that is a huge piece of the puzzle for us is that we are not only are we saying, like, we. We care about your money, the way that we care about our money is that we're also showing them and saying, like, we want to be fiscally responsible. We want you to think of your, you know, construction budget and your furniture budget as two different silos. And here's how we're going to help you get there. So, you know, whether the builder has already set allowances and we're kind of beholden to those things, or whether we have a little bit of room to kind of, you know, finesse those plumbing budgets or electrical budgets to get them where we want them to be, we are always kind of thinking of that furniture budget in a silo and instead of, you know, if this happens to us as well, we certainly have projects that construction costs, you know, kind of in some way or another, where whether the project gets bid inappropriately by a builder or whether, you know, the. The client makes decisions that kind of drive the budget further than what they want to, we are still trying to, like, help them think about that furniture budget in a silo. But occasionally we will have an experience where we really have to encourage the. The client to see scale down on scope and like, really consider specific rooms and consider phasing out what that next, you know, phase of rooms might be with us from a furnishing perspective versus saying like, let's just cut it completely.
[00:37:06] Speaker B: Okay, so a one thing I want to clarify because you said that you have this conversation, you line item, all of the itemized freight, sales tax, everything you said, and you have that conversation before they even see proposal. In that context, you were referring to an actual furnishings proposal, correct?
Okay, yeah. So when are you having this conversation? Because I can comprehend Okay, I had a kickoff call with someone or an inquiry call with someone. I'm saying, okay, you guys are doing new build. We're looking anywhere from 3 to 8%.
Where are you having the conversation of okay, how much is it going to cost to furnish that house?
[00:37:44] Speaker A: Yeah, so it, I think it's different for every project and every client, but we are having that conversation as early as the kickoff meeting. And so, you know, when we have a client that might be, you know, a little more cost conscious or might be looking for something that is a little bit more scaled down than saying like, okay, we have a 10 million dollar build and our constructor, sorry, our furniture budget is 2 million dollars. Like that's a dream world. Right. But that, that is a rarity. So we are having those conversations pretty early and often, but we are having them as construction designs are happening often. And so what I mean by that is that like when we, we just did a proposal two days ago and when we were showing them their layouts for their rooms, we were also showing them furniture this way and it was construction finishes only. We're also showing them furniture layouts and encouraging them to think about like, hey, you have said you want to do furniture with us. Like, let's think about what these rooms actually need from a furniture perspective to fill these rooms. They have already sent us kind of their existing furniture pieces, so we're peppering those kind of in so they can imagine where those land. And once we get through that construction finish kind of proposal, or sorry, not not proposal, construction finish presentation, we are then launching very much into that conversation about furniture. But we are having the conversation with them about like, what is your furniture budget? Can't, like let's think about these things as two different silos at the kickoff meeting for sure.
[00:39:10] Speaker B: Got it. Okay. I have some follow ups. Okay. So one thing I'm hearing from you, Melissa, that I definitely think contributes to that client trust level in the selling without selling concept is that you're not necessarily asking for their total budget, including furnishings at that initial call when you're really just talking about design fees. So a couple clarifications. Do does oho take on projects where you're just doing the design work and you're not even getting as far as furnishings. And if, if that's not the case, if you do expect to always go through furnishings, how are you, how are you not integrating that in that initial conversation? If you're saying 3, 3 to 8% for the design fees portion, how are you? I don't want to say skirting around because I know that's not your intent whatsoever. But like how are you not saying, okay, well it's going to cost this much to furnish a house of that size of that budget.
Yeah.
[00:40:13] Speaker A: So we, sorry if I made it seem like we don't have those conversations. I have that conversation at the inquiry, at inquiry of yeah. Making sure that I understand what their budget is just so like I can, you know, gut check feasibility for sure. Because if someone's going to come in and say, I would like to build a 5,000 square foot house in the Oho Way for $2 million, I'm going to tell you that that's just not going to be possible because I know what it costs on a like average project cost per square foot to achieve what we do.
So I'm having those conversations early.
We do take on projects that are construction only and we know like, I mean that's one of our kind of pull downs on our inquiry form is, you know, construction project without furnishing plan, construction project with furnishing plan. And so I'm clarifying those things in the inquiry call and again having those conversations about, okay, so you're if of construction budget is this, you know, you're, you're building a $4 million house and you expect to furnish it for $100,000.
I'm going to have that. Like that's not super realistic for us to be able to do that. Now certainly I don't want to put it past anyone. You can absolutely go out and furnish an entire home for a thousand or sorry, for a hundred thousand dollars. And that's a healthy budget from a perspective of like, that's a lot of money.
But you're not going to be able to do that with us for that amount of money. And I don't want to push you to a point where that doesn't feel good for you because that's actually not beneficial for everyone.
So what I'm going to tell you in the very early stage is that like to, you know, furnish your average 5,000 square foot home, you're definitely looking at more than half a million dollars to do it in a way that gets you, you know, even close to what our portfolio looks like. Now again, this is the challenge of our industry is that we can design a beautiful home with, you know, sofas that are in grade fabric and you know, beautifully detailed, but not as incredibly detailed as, you know, adding a layer of detail to every single piece of the furniture piece. Like we can definitely scale down what we're offering from a furniture perspective, we can also scale it up. And so most people kind of land in that in between phase. But trying to explain to someone the design fee cost between those two things is also dramatically different.
That is something that I try to do in every inquiry call as well, because if someone wants that, like Belgian, for lack of better term, restoration hardware look, where everything's much more refined, much more, you know, pulled back on a palette perspective, we can achieve that for, you know, less design fee than what it cost us to say that everything is custom.
You know, every lampshade has a fabric on it. Every, you know, sofa has a tassel or a ruffle or, you know, something another, you know, just the two ends of the spectrum. Those are two different design fees that you're looking at. And so when I'm talking to them about furniture design fees specifically, that's the conversation that I have to have with them to say, like, sometimes, especially if it's a furniture only project, sometimes, like, we can achieve that for a 20% or, sorry, 15 design fee, and then sometimes it comes in at 40%. And again, it just depends on kind of like what that scale. If they're only looking to spend $200,000 or if they're looking to spend $1.5 million on furniture specifically, it just kind of skews the. The gamut on design fees.
[00:43:36] Speaker B: Something I heard you say that I found so fascinating that I also feel helps build trust with your clients so much. As you mentioned, when you guys are first presenting furniture layouts, you already have been sent all of the pieces that they currently have and that you guys are willing to and happy to incorporate pieces that they already have. I don't feel that that is entirely industry standard anymore. And I feel like a lot of people are furnishing. You know, people have either sold their furniture with their past house or they just believe that this is a new house. Everything should be, you know, designed and fit specifically for this house. I think that the fact that some pieces would be carried on from past homes tells such a story of the heritage collected traditional homes that you design.
Can you talk us through your process of gathering their existing furnishings, how you incorporate it, how you talk about it? Because I would really love to hear more specifics on that, as I do feel like that builds such an amount of trust in your relationship.
[00:44:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I'm. It depends on if our project is kind of local to where we are in Minneapolis or Colorado, or if the project is you know, more of a remote or long distance project for us, those are kind of two different processes. And when we gather that information, if the project is a long distance project for us, we are gathering that information as soon as possible. Like, basically at that kickoff meeting to say, what pieces do you have? We will photograph them, we will take measurements of them. You know, we have definitely run into situations where a client's been, like, all of our furniture's in storage already. So, like, let's go to the storage unit and go, like, pull them out and look at them and measure them.
If it is a project where we have kind of much more access to what, you know, those pieces, we definitely will go in the early stage of the project and get those measurements and get pictures of those items. And what we do is that in our asana, we basically create an existing furniture section for each, you know, under each project that lists out what that pieces with a photo with existing measurements, so that by the time we get to kind of laying out a room, we have that easy to pull from to just kind of plop in there. And then I always, like. And all of our designers always caveat it with our client that if, like, if there is a piece that they really love, we will figure out a way to make it work. If there is a piece that they're like, well, my grandma gave it to me. I don't really love it, but it means something to me. Then, like, if it's. If it's ugly, I'm going to be really honest with you. And like, we. I. That is one thing we promise is that we will be really honest with you. But there's oftentimes, and especially, like you said, like, it goes down to kind of who we are and the heritage values that we bring with us, as in our aesthetic, but also as designers, that we want to find a way to give those pieces new life. So whether we are refinishing a piece or reupholstering a piece or adding, you know, a great cushion cover to a. A seat, those things, like, oftentimes we're searching for antiques anyway, and sometimes our clients already have those antiques. And so that's. That's really the, like, systemized way that we've been able to figure that out.
[00:46:44] Speaker B: That is so clear. Thank you, Melissa. When do you guys have like a.
I guess kind of the term would be like, minimum level of engagement that, like, someone is required to spend X amount on furniture with you. Like, let's say maybe it's even someone you worked with before they Just have really, really great stuff. And you're like, you know, we're not really going to need to bring a whole lot in here. Would you still take a project like that? Or at that point, does it come down to, like, you know, maybe just an expert call is going to be better because you have great taste, you know what you're doing, and we don't need to replace much.
[00:47:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think having the, you know, the resource of the expert at our disposal as kind of our secondary service offering and in juxtaposition to our full service, that's definitely aided us in that way of kind of offering that service level for someone like that who already has great taste, who, you know, really just doesn't need $70,000 worth of furniture for their family room. But what we have found especially is that it kind of becomes a, if you give a mouse a cookie situation. And so in some ways we want to try to help curb some of that because it, it tends to blow up budgets and really sometimes creates this, like, lack of trust from the client. Of what I've said at the beginning of, we really respect your budget to, oh, all of a sudden now we're like $40,000 over budget. But what we try to, you know, understand with our clients is like, if you come into this having a great amount of furniture with great taste, we're still going to want to put our stamp on it and put our stamp on the space as well. And oftentimes that means architecturally we're making some adjustments. Whether that's, you know, adding interior window walls or wallpapering or changing light fixtures, it kind of becomes a like, yes, you have great furniture, but we're still going to want to make it look like oho. And that's going to take, you know, a certain amount of money too. So yes, we do. We do actually have project minimums for furniture. We typically say kind of around that 2/5, $250,000 number is kind of where it makes sense for engagement. And that is not from the perspective of like, oh, it's not worth our time if it's less than that. What it means is that their design fees tend to outpace kind of where we would want them to be. From a furniture perspective. If they're, you know, someone comes to us and is like, I just want to spend 70k, I just want living room furniture, then I'm going to tell you, like, you're going to spend, you know, somewhere a third to a half of that on design fees just for us to get you through our process.
And that for some people is just not worth it. And other people, they're like, I'm game for that. So.
[00:49:13] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:49:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:14] Speaker B: Something else I want to get into because you are serving clients all over the country and you're now based in Colorado, your team's in Minneapolis, you guys have projects all over. Talk us through how you have enhanced your client experience when there is a remote aspect to what you do to continue to not just gain that trust initially, but also carry it throughout the whole project. Because I feel like a lot of the trust building and the selling without selling is that like physical, in person connection you have with someone. And that's just not the most cost effective. In some cases, it's also just not the most feasible. I mean, you have a family, they have families.
So how.
How have you enhanced your client experience with the remote aspect of it?
[00:50:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that is something that is kind of the secret sauce to this selling without selling kind of mentality, is that in a lot of ways, because we do projects both in our hometown and I do projects in Colorado, and we also have projects in Colorado that the other design teams do and the nationwide is that we've really had to learn how to systemize a great client experience.
And part of that is really understanding that we are creating these organic moments, what we'll feel like for our clients, these organic moments of gathering information from them. But then we have to have a way to record that so that we can recall that, because we're having far less in person experiences with especially our out of state, you know, people. And so that is something that we have really, I think, become experts in, in terms of gathering that information. We are gathering it from the point of time which they submit a questionnaire which is kind of part of their onboarding experience, to every interaction with them. We are taking notes, we are putting that into asana. We have a. And actually our friend Tiffany, as you mentioned earlier, she had actually given, you know, she's so passionate about unreasonable hospitality. And part of. She's the. She's the reason I read that book initially years ago, and I love her for that because it changed my life.
But there, there's a element of moments of delight in unreasonable hospitality. And so that's actually internally what we call this. We have a little task under the project information in our Asana that is called moments of delight. And so this is like, these are little pieces of information that like our client just kind of drops because at the end of the day, as designers, our Job is really to kind of take our clients hopes and dreams, capture them and turn them into great design. And so part of that is really understanding like did they meet at Notre Dame? Like was their first kiss on the campus? Do they have this like really special experience with like the Tetons, like you know, like gathering these like really very specific tiny little pieces of information that our clients kind of just throw at us without even thinking about it during the process. Like for example one of our clients right now, like they are avid board game people. Like we are working on their carriage house on the back of their property and making it into this like really cool like cozy spot for the family to kind of gather as a secondary kind of home location on their property.
But we know that they are board game people in their like main house. They have an entire wall built in of just filled with board games.
So you know, and I'm hopeful Sarah's not going to listen to this. So Sarah, if you're listening to this, please stop immediately. But their end gift is going to be a like custom board game that we have created for their family. So like gathering those little pieces of information so we can create these moments of delight for them. That's a part of our process.
In addition to that like these we have another task that's called don't screw it up. And so it's one of those moments of like if the client made an offhanded comment about hating plate walls at some point in the process, the associate designer's responsibility is to capture that information into a note and drop it into that don't screw it up moment. So that when we're doing, you know, down to accessories and it has been two years of just an onboard of information, we can go back to that don't screw it up list and be like don't put a frickin plate wall in their house because they're going to hate it and they're going to think they don't actually know who I am. And everything that we're doing is really like catered to making them feel known and loved throughout that process. And so those are just kind of the pieces of the puzzle that we've had to really systemize and like cater to that selling without selling is that we are just capturing that information and putting it there so that it is, it is easy to find instead of just living in our brains and being like wait, did that client say that they hated that thing? Or like is this the client that met at Notre Dame? Like should we put those colors into their primary bathroom and, you know, storytelling into that, into their design. Like, that's kind of part of our whole systemization of our process.
[00:54:11] Speaker B: Is there a moment in a client relationship where this approach has broken down for you and where. What did you learn from that?
[00:54:21] Speaker A: I will say the only time that this is broken down from us is when it doesn't get done.
Like, when the design teams kind of skip that part of the process or whether they didn't have the, you know, certainly on our. In our early days of like, I didn't do a great job of explaining what our process is. And then we get into the weeds and it's like, well, no one captured that information. That's probably the only time it's really gone sideways for us.
[00:54:48] Speaker B: Okay, I want to talk about growing the firm because again, first hire wasn't until 2022. That's just four years ago.
And what do you think has been the most effective thing you've done to have grown your studio to this size and capacity?
[00:55:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I. Well, I think there's an element, certainly to serving our clients incredibly well and creating an incredible client experience that, you know, that they tell their friends about and then their friends follow us and then hire us when they need a designer. I think that's certainly a piece of it.
But I also think that internally we have had to do a significant amount of work knowing that we have, you know, effectively four different design teams. If you count the projects that I take on, the portfolio.
Portfolio projects that I take on. We have four different design teams operating across the country on projects. We have had to really document what our processes are. And candidly, we are still very much in the process of creating our standard operating procedures. We have been in a multi year experience of creating our standard operating experience. Brooke, I need you in my life. Come back from maternity leave, please, asap.
But I think that that is something that we've had to figure out how to document, especially as the teams grow, so that we are to going kind of giving every client the great customer service, you know, client experience that I have created when I can't even be there. And oftentimes I can't be there. And so that is something that from a hiring perspective, we have had to make sure that we are, you know, candidly, we've had, you know, a couple designers in the past who have refused to follow our process and have not made it at oho, and that is in particular because they kind of refuse to follow that oh process. And so when we are hiring, we're definitely looking, looking for people who are process driven, who kind of crave the structure of that, but also have the flexibility because we all need this. And every job is different. To pivot and operate within kind of boundaries, but create their own.
Not create their own, but. But do their own thing and still be able to operate without the guide rails of like, this is how we do every single thing.
[00:57:05] Speaker B: For everyone listening, Melissa was referring to our good friend Brooke Stoll, who handles setting up standard operating procedures. We have an episode with her. She's brilliant, but in case anybody was wondering, that's who you need to reach out to. I was going to ask, was that. Was that a task that you guys took on internally to. I feel like standard operating procedures is just such.
It's such a chunk to swallow. Like, the concept of, like, how do I even get started on this? Feels like so much. Did you. Did you start initially internally and then bring on Brooke, or were you like, if this is going to get done, I have to outsource it?
[00:57:43] Speaker A: No. So we, we have. I am still in the process of convincing my business partner to bring in Brooks. So this is my public plea of that.
But we, we honestly. So how. What we have done to date to just basically kind of get us by is that we have a Google document that has every step of our process, like, detailed out with basically, like, every position within the firm and a check mark of, like, who's responsible for this?
We took that and put it into Chat GPT to see if, like, chat could then take and create standard operating procedures for us.
No, that was a gigantic failure. That did not work for us. It did not have the kind of depth of detail that we've needed. And so we have just sort of had to build it out by chunky. And basically, as we have gone through new processes or set new standards, we have created a standard operating procedure that is based on that and we're slowly hobbling something together.
At the end of the day, what needs to be done is that I need to have time to sit down and dump my brain into a chatgpt or some sort of smart service or hire Brooke, which is what I'd like to do.
[00:58:56] Speaker B: Okay, let's pivot back to talking about social and just like the growth of the studio, I know you said back in 2021 is when you really were like, I need to be a little more strategic about how what I'm putting out onto the Internet because I'm. I have so many DIY interested followers. And like, that's not who's hiring us.
Was there a particular step that you could advise someone of? Like, hey, we made this pivot and you know what? It. It we did see a change.
Anything very particular and specific that we can exactly replicate would be great.
[00:59:36] Speaker A: Yeah, very, so very specifically, like I.
Because we were renovating our own house and it was definitely a multi year process. Like you would see me on evenings, on socials, on evenings and weekends being like, I picked up a paintbrush, I'm gonna paint this room.
I stopped doing that. Like I basically had to stop showing the work that I was doing, the work that we were doing on our homes ourselves and basically make it seem. And I never, I never lied about it because I'm an enneagram one and I live in, I live in fear of lying. But I, I was just very like unclear about who was doing the work. It was us behind the scenes. Like we were the ones doing the work on, on that house that we were renovating. But I had to stop talking about it as if like I was the one doing the work. And I am telling you, the minute I stopped doing that, the minute I started switching to like the wallpaper installer came, which I will never install wallpaper. So that was, that was a trade that came in. But like, you know, my husband took on some of the electrical work for our kitchen. I very much was like, the electrical work is done. Look at how amazing. You know, the plumber came. Look at how amazing it is. You know. And I obviously actually that still feels like, still feels very kind to lying. I probably was like, the plumbing work was done.
But I like that the minute I made that switch, it was very like there was a very clear shift and it took, you know, it took a few months to really see that kind of show up in our inquiries. But I am telling you the difference between over a six month period, when I stopped referencing like the, the DIY work that I was doing on the weekends, suddenly we didn't have clients that were like, hey, do you think I could do some of the demo work to cut costs? Or like, hey, do you think I could paint myself to cut costs? Like, it was remarkable that on off switch that happened when I stopped talking about it in my stories.
[01:01:26] Speaker B: Okay, well, that, I mean, six months. Sure. I mean, I wish it was six days, but I mean, six months isn't a crazy number. Like I can wrap my head around that.
[01:01:34] Speaker A: No.
[01:01:34] Speaker B: Okay, so you've also been named a top 40 expert among many other industry accolades.
How do you feel like those kinds of visibility moments have affected the business and how do you think about pursuing them?
[01:01:50] Speaker A: Yeah, one of the big pillars of our strategy in terms of marketing really has been to position OHO as a leader in the industry.
And I think part of that is really a being recognized by industry within the industry.
I think that has led to that and then different educational moments. So the panel that you and I got to see each other at in Austin, like, those are remarkable opportunities for me to, you know, have a moment to be seen as someone in the industry who is an expert that translates and you know, within the industry, like you and I know, like those things are wonderful and like truly like the best experiences.
It doesn't mean that everyone on every panel is an actual expert, but what it does to us from a front facing, from a client facing perspective is, you know, being featured in the Wall Street Journal, having our name out there, being seen as someone who's being invited to panels and you know, being receiving accolades like the expert or the house beautiful X Wave thing, like those, those things are incredible soul renewing moments for me and incredibly great also candidly for my ego. But they also just really do position us in a place of saying that the, you know, OHO is an expert in their field, they know what they're talking about. And also just a little like, side note, has really honestly helped us, you know, in our experiences with leveling up with builders as well in the industry and you know, showing up on site and someone saying like, hey, I saw that you were recognized for this thing. Like, maybe you're not just the designer that's like sitting at our island doing the work or fluffing pillows or, you know, whatever kind of illusions of like, what our industry looks like when you're not, you know, when you're not the one doing technical documents at your island and being like the grind of that. Like, I know what I'm talking about. But yes, yes, like plaster guy, when I show up and tell you, I do know that it is possible to do this specific technique.
It does carry weight with it and has given us a level of expertise.
You know, whether perceived or actual, that's the question mark.
[01:03:58] Speaker B: But something else I think you've done so, so well, Melissa. I mean, you're just like the most charming human on the planet, but you invest a lot of time into community building. I mean, you've been at Haven Conference multiple times. You do the Midwest design retreat. We're still waiting for you to come to design camp.
What have.
Can you speak to those listening as to what value or even return on investment you have experience from whether it's something you purchased a ticket to or something you were asked to participate. Participate in. What has that meant to you personally?
[01:04:37] Speaker A: I, those experiences are life changing. I mean from a, I, I can't even the, the I would honestly I would show up if no one invited me. Like, I, I would pay. Like, I, I, I would, I would show up at these places whether anyone paid me or not. Because the experience of the camaraderie and the community that you make those experiences is second to none.
I have, you know, locally in Minneapolis, like we have an incredible design community. But I have, you know, a group of three other designers. Our friend Julia at Yond and Ann McDonald Interiors and Tara from Tara Kane. Like we text each other almost weekly just being like, hey, I ran into this situation or like, hey, have you guys seen a slowdown in the industry? Like the, that's the kind of community that comes from events like Design Camp and Haven that like cannot be replicated in, in any other situation. And I think that that is something that is so powerful is that you get put in a room with other people who are, you know, either they could be levels above you, they could be levels below you, but you are all looking to seek to be better and to grow and to do something differently. And the vulnerability that it takes to show up at those places and want to do that and to actually actively seek that out is incredible. And so I think that those are, those are experiences that I would recommend for anyone. But in addition to that is that, you know, both Design Camp Haven Design field notes like Midwest Design Retreat have created these incredibly inspiring experiences for designers that like, we give so much to our clients and so much of ourselves. We pour into these designs that to have a moment where someone else is pouring into us for a similarly beautiful and inspiring experience like you can't again, it's like you have to go paid the five star resort to experience that. But you can do that with, you know, one of these industry events. And I would. If every year I don't get invited to one, I'm paying to go to one because they are so soul renewing in that way.
[01:06:43] Speaker B: If you had to distill the selling without selling philosophy down to one thing that any designer could implement tomorrow, what would it be?
[01:06:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it is the mind shift of being able to approach our clients with the approach of I am trying to give you something that is going to improve your life and that is likely something that you cannot do. Yourself, which is why you have hired me.
But that mind shift of, like, I'm not just creating a beautiful space for you, but I am actually going to improve your mental health. I'm going to improve the function of your life. I am going to create more beauty in your life. Like, that mental mind shift brings you to a place of serving a client from a heartfelt place of like, I want to give you something. I'm not just trying to sell you the most expensive light fixture or the most expensive, expensive sofa. Like, I actually want to give you something that only I can get or only me as a designer can give to you. I think that is the most powerful kind of mind shift that I have had for my business. That is how I have built oho, and that is something that I hope that every designer who kind of comes in and leaves OHO might leave and take with them. Is that like, truly service build mentality of like, I know and I. And I hope I don't overinflate this. I say this with from a place of ultimate humility. But, like, I know I can do that for people, and I think everyone deserves to have that. And if I can give those that to our clients, that is a job well done.
[01:08:21] Speaker B: Okay, what is coming up next for OHO and tears that you are excited and allowed to share?
[01:08:30] Speaker A: I know, right?
So there's some NDAs happening, so I can't tell you some things.
[01:08:35] Speaker B: NDAs are exciting, though. That's exciting.
[01:08:38] Speaker A: They are exciting. 2027 will be a good year for OHO in terms of things coming to the market that everyone can buy that might have an OHO stamp on it, but things that I can talk about, we do. In fact, in a couple of weeks, we are. We partnered with Lee Jofa and we have taken one of their. Their most recent collections and basically created a floral wonderland out of my Minneapolis condo. And my husband hates it after. Well, no, he actually loves it, but I did it. And it is floral and feminine and wonderful, but it's also really balanced because we're oho, but that will see a debut hopefully in the next couple months here.
And then we also just have, like, some really incredible projects that are like, we are photographing and then submitting for press. So those might be embargoed for a few years, but they will be coming out soon. And I can't wait to share because they are the epitome of who OHO is.
[01:09:36] Speaker B: That is so exciting. Melissa. This was fantastic.
If you guys haven't heard it already, I recorded this earlier this week with Tiffany from Tiffany Lee Design, and we were Talking about Melissa's 100 image exercise during your kickoff process. She talks the whole time about how she learned it from you and she's refined it and taken it. But I highly recommend you go watch that episode. She does a little demo for us, but that brilliant concept originated here with Melissa, so I needed to thank you for that as well. So, really, you did two podcasts for us this week. Thank you so much.
[01:10:16] Speaker A: You're welcome.
[01:10:18] Speaker B: I can only imagine what an immense pleasure it is to work with you as a client. This was so helpful. And I think you also made this concept of selling and talking about money, which for so many people, there's shame and mindset difficulties with it. You definitely clarified it for us and you made it feel a lot more approachable. So thank you so much.
[01:10:43] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Thank you for having me. I would spend, you know me, I want to spend every day I can with you. So I'm gonna come stay with you in Austin next time, please.
[01:10:51] Speaker B: Well, I need to come up and see this condo in Minneapolis. Can we have a sleepover?
[01:10:57] Speaker A: Yeah. We'll bring Julia and Ann into it too.
[01:10:59] Speaker B: Perfect. Thank you so much. We will talk soon.
[01:11:02] Speaker A: Okay.
[01:11:04] Speaker B: For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more, don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes or at patreon.com forward/the interior collection.
Thank you so, so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations.
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Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living. A very special thanks to our episode sponsor, Leloy, the makers of beautifully crafted rugs, pillows and wall art, and season partner Materia, the design platform, helping interior designers source materials, manage specifications and streamline project workflows.
