[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey, and today I am sitting down with Kylie K. Bass, founder of KKB Interiors. Before launching her interior design studio, Kylie built her career in advertising, working inside an industry that is deeply rooted in strategy, messaging, timelines, and performance.
In today's episode, we're unpacking how these skills translated into the structure, pricing, and client experience of her design practice.
We talk about the surprising ways advertising thinking shows up in everything from proposals to project pacing, how designers can borrow proven frameworks from other industries without overcomplicating their business, and why clarity, not creativity, is often the thing that unlocks growth. As always, we'll get into the nuts and bolts. Team structure, pricing, models, and how Kylie thinks about running a studio that's both creatively fulfilling and commercially sound. This season is presented by Laloy, makers of rugs, pillows, and wall art collections that are grounded in ethical production, innovative craft, and meticulous design. Learn more about Loloy by visiting their website loloi rugs.com that's L O L O I rugs.com and follow the Loy Rugs on Instagram and TikTok. Are you running your design firm? With a patchwork of tools, Materio brings it all into one intuitive system. Finally, try it
[email protected] and get 50% off your first month as an interior collective. Listene that's G E T M a T e r I o.com hey, Kylie, welcome to the show. I'm so glad we could finally make this happen as I was just gushing over you before we got on. There are, you know, so many portfolios I get to drool over every day, but yours just, like, really speaks to my soul and the fact that you're an advertising girl.
I just feel like we are kindred spirits. I went to advertising school and so this is like peak interview for me.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: I love that. That's a wonderful intro.
The feeling is mutual.
You know, I would say your questions are amazing. I love the conversations that you've had with everyone on this podcast. So it's, you know, definitely feels like a natural fit for me. And I love hearing that you like our work. That makes me so happy.
[00:02:19] Speaker B: Well, let's. Let's dig in. We always like to start at the beginning. Can you walk us through your career in advertising and what your role actually looked like day to day? Because we have, like, mad men in our heads. What does advertising really mean?
[00:02:33] Speaker A: Yeah, so of course I would say I did not Sit on the Mad Men side of things. I worked more specifically on the sales marketing team for the Today show, which was very fast paced, very highly client facing, but it was more that we were in charge of the show's advertising integration. So we sat as the middleman between the paying advertisers and the production team.
So, you know, there were constant deadlines, constant approvals, lots of expectations to manage, lots of personalities to manage, and there was definitely a lot of presenting.
So what's funny is that at the time, I had no idea how transferable all of those skills would be.
But it trained me really well to think critically and creatively and stay incredibly organized and operate under pressure and communicate clearly. So all of that kind of ended up being, you know, the foundation for me when I moved into design.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: So let's talk about that transition. At what point did interior design really start to feel like more than just a, you know, a personal interest and like a viable business path?
[00:03:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So honestly, the ironic part about my career change is that even while I was changing careers, I didn't even see interior design as the end goal.
I knew I loved design. I loved working on houses, I loved working on my own apartment.
[email protected], aRC Digest, like that was just like part of my morning routine, helping friends with their apartments back in the day. But it wasn't ever coming from a place of, I'm doing this because I want to be a designer.
You know, backing up for a second. I would say growing up, art was definitely always an outlet for me. I loved art, I loved sketching, I loved painting, I loved dance. But I wasn't good enough for those to actually be my career path. And like I said at the time, like, interior design wasn't even in my peripheral vision as an option.
But what I did know is that I had reached a point in my life where, you know, strategic and creative thinking on its own just wasn't really filling my cup. And so I wanted to combine them in a more tangible way, I guess.
But, you know, sidebar, and then I'll bring it back. When I was younger and I was pivoting from my first job anyway, my father in law, he's a wonderful man and he said something that really struck with me, which was that if you're ever making a change, you need to come from a place of strength and not weakness. And that's what this was. Because I loved my team. I loved them to death. Like, they were so incredible and strong and confident and they gave thoughtful feedback and I still think that they helped me grow as a person.
And so in that time, I didn't feel like I was running away from something. I thought that I was moving towards something from, like, a really solid place.
So then going forward again, I had started taking classes at the New York School of Interior Design, just, like, kind of on the side experimentally.
And in many ways, I really just left. It leapt in. Like, my husband, who was my fiance at the time, he was actually the one who was like, why don't you consider doing this as a career?
And even in the moment, like, I was taking historical styles classes at Nysen, and I was like, do I want to be an interior designer? Should I maybe go into styling? It was just, like, the weirdest.
I don't know. It was just, like, so strange and funny.
So I guess the real shift for me came when people weren't just asking for my opinion anymore and they were trusting me with their home. And when I saw that consistent demand, it just, like, kind of stopped feeling like a creative hobby for me and. And more like an industry I belonged in.
[00:06:34] Speaker B: So people were paying you before you even had officially started your business? Like, what a blessing to have a pipeline before stepping out.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: I mean, I could barely say that it was being paid. Like, let's be honest, I was just, like, so excited to be helping people and. And so excited that people valued my opinion and trusted me in their homes. And so, you know, I was getting literal pennies on the side, but it's not like it was anything substantial. It's just, like, I felt like I had a real responsibility to them.
[00:07:06] Speaker B: You know, can we talk about kind of how that pipeline, even if they weren't, you know, like, fully paying clients, like, how did you start to get that work for you to even get to the point of being like, hey, maybe this is a profession.
[00:07:27] Speaker A: How did I.
All right, I think here I'll pause and then I'll start.
I would say it started from a lot of people, like when my.
Again, my husband, fiance at the time, boyfriend, whatever we were. When we were moving around a lot and just bopping around apartments, and they would see what I would do to my apartment and just would ask me for help with theirs. But again, like I said, even in those moments, at first, I never translated it to a career. I just thought it was, like, a really fun thing to do. And so when it happened more consistently and, you know, in tandem with taking these classes, I was like, aha. Like, this is totally something that could be a career for me.
I think it's just because I never. When I would think about creativity and where I. How far I came after college or the career path that I had chosen after college, I think that direct creative job was never something in my brain that I was like, this is what you could do to make money.
[00:08:37] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I think so many of us relate to that that it's like, that wasn't even a.
It just wasn't on the table. It just like, wasn't. It just wasn't even something. Was there ever a point during this transition that you had any worries or apprehensions that this is something I love doing so much. When it becomes my job, am I going to lose the joy that I find with it? Because it's definitely something I think about a lot.
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Really good question. And I think that my answer is that I was just too naive too, to know because it wasn't ever on my radar. I jumped in not knowing. It's kind of like motherhood. Like, I was always like the bandwagon pregnant person of my friends, but I had no clue what to expect. I was just like, all right, I guess, like, this is what we're doing now. And I think that's kind of what happened when I hopped in. So I never had any expectations. I never had any, you know, I didn't know what this industry was. So I was never set up to be let down, I think.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
So was there a specific moment when you realized after starting your studio that your advertising background might actually give you a real advantage in interior design?
[00:09:58] Speaker A: This is funny because. Yes. And it happened pretty much immediately.
I joke with everybody who asks, like, my job is probably 20% design. Again, had no clue. 20% design and 80% back end.
But if we're going to be real honest, it's probably 20% design, 40% therapist, and then the rest is the back end that I'm dealing with.
But you know, as soon as I started working with clients, I knew I was comfortable presenting.
Talking about budget, staying organized, talking about scope. Those were all just things that my last job had trained me to do.
So I learned early on how to sell ideas in a way that was like super genuine and built trust instead of creating a lot of pressure.
And that was really calming for me, I think. But it made it very clear that my original path was a foundation for the future for me.
[00:10:55] Speaker B: So much of advertising and what you were doing at that time is so strategy driven and hyper analytical and a lot of database.
How did that shape the way you position selling your own projects and like, the more specific strategy you can share with us, the more we would be so grateful because I think selling not just our services, but also our design sometimes can be one of the biggest challenges.
[00:11:25] Speaker A: It's true. And I think that it's positioning comes first. From the start, I was always really intentional about who KKB Interiors was for and the authenticity behind it and how we wanted our clients to feel and the experience that, you know, we're delivering to all these different people all the time. And so I just, I think that design is so much more than making pretty homes, and it's also such a different personal experience for everyone.
So that helped our studio a lot.
[00:11:57] Speaker B: How do you think about your studio as a whole brand and not just a service provider?
[00:12:02] Speaker A: I think of KKB Interiors as the entire client experience from start to finish. So from the very first email with me through that final install, I pay attention to how I'm communicating, how my team communicates, how organized we are, how we're handling issues, and if a client just, like, feels supported by us at all times.
I think a lot of studios can create beautiful spaces. But what I see, at least, like, from my friends or people that I meet who hear about the industry, what they're remembering about their experience with an interior designer, is the feeling that they had from working with you. And so, you know, to me, my brand is my reputation and the feeling that I leave with my clients. And so the most, I joke, but, like, the most meaningful phone calls that I get are when a project's dwindling down and we don't have that many more deliverables to meet. And I'll get a random phone call from a client and this has happened a lot.
And they're like, wait, so is that it? Like, we're not going to talk anymore? Like, are we done talking? And I'm like, call me anytime. It's just not billable anymore, you know, but like, I love that because I'm like, that's it. Like, that means that we are ending on a positive note and you had a good experience and it's just like, that's everything for me, truly.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: When you're talking about client communication and you're thinking about your brand and like, how your team communicates with your clients, how do you enforce? Feels like too strong of a word. But how do you.
How do you make sure that your team is communicating in the same tone or at least the same vein that you would be? Because I feel like some designers can get nervous or caught up in like, oh, I can't tell them how to speak. Like, that's not my job, or that's not my role or my position.
But I completely agree that the tone in which you communicate with your clients is the most direct representation of your brand. So can you coach us through kind of how you've handled that?
[00:14:15] Speaker A: Well, I will say, admittedly, that starts with a lot of crazy OCD reviewing of emails from the beginning. I think that it's really important that we don't get caught in that crossfire of, like, feeling too much like a robot. And obviously this is a very professional industry, but it's also a very personal industry. It's more personal than anything else. And so clients, you know, you can still feel supported and feel like you're working with a professional person without being super rigid.
And so, you know, I copy my team on pretty much every communication. They see how I talk to people, they see how I talk to vendors, clients, everyone. And so I use that as a model for how they should feel when they're talking to clients. I don't want them to be scared. I want them to be buttoned up. But I want them to have a personality.
And that doesn't mean sounding like me necessarily, because if you meet anyone on my team, all of our personalities are so different, but I just want them to feel like they could be themselves, you know, whatever that is for them, and have that genuine, you know, side come through always.
[00:15:33] Speaker B: Your.
You mentioned that you don't want to ever sound like a robot, and I think that that's such an interesting point that actually came up in our studio recently of someone saying like, oh, the copy we sent them for their website, they're like, we know this isn't chatgpt, but there's things that sound like it could be. What are. What are some things that you.
That you are encouraging your team to practice so that it does feel warm and there is some, like, fuzziness to things like warm fuzzies. Not, not unclarity, but some warm fuzzies while still making sure that everything feels super polished. Because it feels like sometimes it can be one way or the other. And walking that gray line in between is like such a beautiful sweet spot, 100%.
[00:16:21] Speaker A: And I think that it starts with any kind of writing. Put your thoughts on a page first. If you're writing an email, I don't care if it's a super detailed email or a client update email, just like put your thoughts on a page. Once you get all of those thoughts on a page, Then formulate it, Formulate it in a way that makes sense. So it's what do they teach you in English? It's like how you create a story. It's like what's the intro? Then you have the meat, then you wrap it up, introduce what you're saying in a nice way, get into the meat of what your email means and then wrap it up with what next steps are or how we can move forward.
And so I think that that's important. And then my team does still ask me for my advice with email formatting a lot. And I love it. I think that it really means that they care. Obviously we're trying to get to a place where practice makes perfect of just like what makes sense, what's going to make people not ask a lot of follow up questions. But I think that's the best way to start is just get all your thoughts on a page, say it like you know you're talking to a friend and then formulate it for a client.
[00:17:32] Speaker B: How do you handle pushback? Like when you're giving not necessarily the greatest news or you're sending a bill for something that maybe a client wasn't expecting, but it absolutely, you know, was outside of your scope. How do you keep maintaining that, that I'm talking to a friend but like protecting yourself mentality, it's so hard.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: But at the core of it, I always just think like, if this was happening to me, what would I want to hear? This industry, you know, it's not all rainbows and butterflies, it's actually far from it. And a lot of this job is delivering news like that. A lot of this job is unexpected costs and delays and it's, you know, you try to pre plan as much as you can, but things happen. It's just, it's normal, it's part of the business.
And so, you know, I want to be able to give my clients a warm hug in my words, but also explain to them like what needs to happen.
And I just think that open communication and trust is everything and that's the reason why, you know, they'll respond well or ask less, ask less questions or understand what you are saying to them. But it's not easy.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: Are there any frameworks or specific processes from advertising that you directly adapted? I'm talking specifically for like proposals or, or onboarding or even project management. Like what are some of those technical business skills that you feel like really helped? Because there's a lot of designers who started their design career after working in something else, but there's plenty of designers who went straight into this, either from design school or from something completely unrelated.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Clarity is everything. So in all of our proposals that we send to everybody, I just make sure that when a client is opening it, it's clear, there are photos, you have a very clear description. And then, you know, we just don't want them to be opening something and think, what am I looking at? Or like, this isn't easy to understand. I don't. What. I have all of these other questions. So it's just, I focus very, very hard on making sure that every single document that we send out is as clear and foolproof as possible.
[00:20:02] Speaker B: Hmm. Can we dig into that a little bit? Because I know a lot of designers like to make sure that their proposals are really beautiful and that there's a lot of client education in it. And it's like, it can be really wordy. Can you advise what you have found can be the most successful in getting that? Yes.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: Yeah, it's removing the fluff. It's. Well, first of all, backing up for a second. It's not even about the yes at that point. Like, we always, before we create proposals, our clients know what's going in the proposal. So we have a full fleshed out design presentation. We go back and forth on things that we need to edit, we upload new revisions. Like, we always try to make sure that even up to the creating of the proposal part, that everything, you know visually is what they know that they're going to get and what they expected and what we talked about.
And so then when it comes to a proposal, we put in all of the very necessary information. It's not like this beautiful chair was designed in blah, blah, blah. It's like, no, here's a photo of what you're getting. Here are any detail shots, if they're important.
And then here's, you know, the dimensions of the piece, the material that's being used, the contents of the material, the color, the lead time, and then any additional descriptions that we need to add within it.
So it's not. By that point, we're not selling anything. We're just giving them the information that they need. Because these are huge investments. You're ordering furniture and wallpaper and rugs. And a lot of the times with my clients, this is the first time they're doing it on a large scale.
And so we talk about that education a bit. But that's where it is so important to just be as clear and concise as possible. Because they're spending a lot of money and they need to know what they're buying.
[00:22:03] Speaker B: Can we talk the same question, but specifically for, like, your design services proposal? When someone is engaging to work with you, I feel like this is when people really want to, like, wow a potential client. And so it's gonna be, you know, all the bells and whistles for, like, a really beautiful, branded, complex and hefty presentation with the. This is why you want to work with us. This is how much it's going to cost. Can you tell me what you found your service proposals work best as?
[00:22:35] Speaker A: So, truthfully, that's. Actually, we don't do that. That's not me. I'm very much, for lack of a better word, like, I'll sell people in our conversation. Because I think that what's most important is not the pretty upfront presentation of, you know, here's KKB Interiors, and here are these glamour shots of my team. Like, no, the core of my business is that you are working with us on a very personal level. And so for me, the most important part about that upfront selling, quote, unquote, is how we get along. And do you trust me and do you understand what I'm saying and what our process is? Do you respect it? Do you, you know, are you okay, you know, to get into more technical. We bill on an hourly basis with markup.
This is why we do it. And, you know, making sure that they're comfortable with that. But I always just want to make sure that people know that there is a person behind KKB Interiors. There are a lot of people behind KKB Interiors, and you don't lose that at any point in the process.
So I. I just. I don't know. And I don't mean to offend anyone. I just don't believe in selling someone with a snazzy presentation. I want to make sure that we get along because I'm going to be part of your lives for a while. You know, if this is a new construction, we'll be working together for years. Like, you need to know the person that you're getting and the team that you're getting.
[00:24:11] Speaker B: So how are you delivering your estimated amount of time on a project? So if you bill hourly, what are you just getting someone to be like, trust us and we're going to get you through the end, or are you giving them some sort of range or kind of, like, what to expect?
[00:24:27] Speaker A: So, look, I know that by billing hourly, it is a very tough territory to get into.
And I will also be totally honest that, like years ago, when people would Ask for an estimate.
I, I would try. I would try really hard and I'd underdo it and it's, it sucked. I, I would kick myself. And I was so upset and I just thought I had the information that I did and I didn't.
But it came with time and it came with a lot of trust. And even those clients and you know, they know who they are, where we've undershot an estimate, they know that it wasn't coming out of a place of trying to be bait and switched. Like, they, they understood and we've worked it out and we have wonderful relationships.
But I will say, like the beauty of a business growing, we have so much more information now. We have so much more data. We finished so many more data at Corporate America. We've got the data, but we're coming from such a different place now where we trap all of our time. I know what certain phases generally cost. I know what certain projects should cost.
But I also always, if a client asks me, I'll give a very wide estimate. And I have to, because I have to protect them, but I have to protect myself. And ultimately, you know, everyone wants to, to know what that number is going to be. But I've never, to this point, had a project where the scope has stayed the same from the second we've started a project. And so as much as I, you know, part of me, I'm on hard days, wants to switch to the flat fee model, I have all of this information that shows me why we shouldn't because, you know, I'm not inflating any flat fees. And then I'm also not losing any money. In the business. It's always been, you know, this fair balance of a client knowing exactly what we're doing and paying for our services and us never feeling like we're going out of scope or the client signed a contract and this is what they asked us to do, and now they're asking us to do more, and then we're amending a contract for that, you know, so we keep our scope pretty fluid, but you pay for what we're doing as we go.
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[00:27:55] Speaker B: This spring, Laloy is headed back to High Point Market with so many new introductions, including a debut rug collection that's made with a groundbreaking new construction, along with a beautiful spring season from Rifle Paper company. They're also hosting exclusive High Point events in their showroom, including one with designer Amber Lewis. If you haven't already, book your high point appointment atolloyrugs.com l o l o I rugs.com and make sure to follow loloirugs on Instagram and TikTok.
Yeah, that definitely makes sense if you're going to let your scope be fluid. Jess Making it really clear that we're happy to do more. It's just it gets billed hourly. So how do you feel the structure of your proposals and that shift that when you used to be trying to come up with a number for someone to now explaining this is a very general number. You can expect our I feel like you can get a better estimate during specifically design concepting. Like, you know how a range of how long it'll take you to do the design concepting part of a project. But how do you feel like your clients have shifted how they receive that information?
Because I feel like a lot of people listening are like that sounds like a dream to just tell clients I can't really give you a set number, but we're just gonna bill you hourly. How do you get them to be like that makes sense. Yes, we're gonna go that way.
[00:29:17] Speaker A: It's again it's a constant struggle for me because like I am such an emotional person and so trying to find that balance of like I'm a human but also I'm a business person but also like I'm really kind and trustworthy. Like you just it's so hard.
I try to answer as many questions as I can. Like I will if they ask me for something super specific, I'll give them an estimate with a trillion caveats. But it just, it comes down to trust. And we invoice for our time once a month at the beginning of the month, for the prior month. And I'm crazy where like I and everyone who is on our team and all of our clients know this. Like our hourly billing is very detailed. So I don't want anyone to be like how much time were they working on this? How much time were they working on this? And so they see everything. I'm super open.
And that way when they're assessing or like when projects are super heavy design phase or super heavy in the procurement phase, they know when that's coming and they can anticipate, okay, those are going to be slightly higher invoice months.
But it really goes back to like, if they ask me for an upfront estimate, we have that information to provide as much clarity as possible. But it's all so project dependent and decision making dependent.
It's really not to try to like get people to like go crazy about like, well, the most. The more efficient I am, like the more, the less time I'm going to be billing or getting billed by Kylie.
That's not really my honest opinion is that like, that's probably not the client who should be hiring an interior designer. Because we work in a, in the high end service industry, you know, that's the core of what we do. It's high end, but it's the service industry.
And I think that in the age of Instagram and all of these things coming up, people forget that it's actually expensive to hire a designer. And it's not that money is not going in my pocket by any means, it's just, it's the nature of the business.
[00:31:35] Speaker B: Advertising runs on deadlines and approvals and scope control.
And after talking to you, I can hear that scope can creep in your projects. And so how did that mindset of corporate advertising help you avoid like the common pitfalls that designers can run into?
[00:31:56] Speaker A: Well, I think it's because design is the exact same. We run on deadlines, we run on approvals, we run on timelines. And so like, that's kind of just part of the core of who I am. And, and you know, making sure that I deliver on those things is also what builds trust for our clients and that's super important.
[00:32:19] Speaker B: What systems or boundaries do you think are non negotiables when it comes to maintaining a healthy studio today, both within your team and also with clients?
[00:32:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I am working on this a lot.
What's funny is that I'm very, very, very good at setting boundaries for my team and very protective of them.
And so I want them to be happy, I want them to be protected. But then I'm awful at holding those boundaries for myself.
One big one that I'm working on is communication, style and timing.
I'm trying to keep things like texts and quick questions within business hours instead of letting it bleed into nights and the weekends because I'm learning that not everything is an emergency and protecting that makes me way better at my job.
It stemmed because, like, I'm just trying to be a way better mom at night. Honestly, like, when my, I'm trying to shut my computer when they're eating dinner and I'm asking them about their day and I'm not being, you know, that jerk who's like, typing an email on the side and I'm like, so guys, like, what was your favorite thing that happened today? But I'm like half paying attention.
It sucks.
And I'm working on it, but that's what I'm trying to do.
[00:33:40] Speaker B: Can I ask, like, specifically, how have you been able.
How are you trying to implement those boundaries? So, like, if a client has been used to being able to text you and you know they text you at 8:30 or 9:00 clock when they're sitting down thinking about their project, how are you actually responding or not responding to help? Be like, okay, this will get addressed tomorrow. Do you just like, literally not respond or do you move it to a, an email the next day? Or how does it work?
[00:34:09] Speaker A: Yeah, it's hard. It's obviously hard because, you know, it, it goes to the core of this. It's a very personal business. Like, I want my clients to feel like they could text me all the time. I want them to feel like they, that I'm easy to get in touch with, that they don't have to wait 48 hours for an email.
But I think that that comes with establishing it from the beginning. Like with past clients who used to email me at 9 o'. Clock. Like, they, they know that I'm just either gonna answer them or I'm like, it's 9pm answering in the morning. But I'd say, like, the new style that I'm trying is if someone texts me on the weekend or texts me at 8pm, I'll leave it unread and respond during business hours in the morning. And then I think that, that. And it's not, I'm not trying to be a jerk about it. It's just like, that's literally how I have to set that boundary for myself.
Because even if I respond and say, hey, it's late, I'll respond in the morning, they know that I'm on my phone. And I'm really trying not to be. I'm trying to like, keep my phone in my room when the kids are eating dinner or during bedtime, I sound like a hypocrite because, like, I don't do that half the time. But I'd say, like, that repetition of, like, knowing Kylie's not gonna answer until the next day, then helps.
I also very honestly tell everybody, like, if you're asking me an important question during business hours, I'll answer you when I'm around my phone. But sometimes I'm in meetings or I'm on calls or, you know, I'm just. I'm not immediately able to answer you on my phone. So if I know that that's happening when I am on my phone, I'll say, send the team an email. This way it doesn't get lost because I try to remember everything, obviously, but, you know, mom brain's real. And the amount of times that, like, my friends during the day will be like, I texted you. And I'm like, I read the text and I fully forgot to respond. Like, the same thing can happen with clients, and I don't want that to happen because I, too, babe, I love my friends and I love my husband, but, like, I pay more attention to my clients and answering their messages than. Than the people that are, you know, close to me in my life.
But so that's. I think that's been, like, the best way is just, like, don't answer the message after a certain time. Pick it up at 9:00am yeah, absolutely.
[00:36:23] Speaker B: I think it was when we had Lauren lease on the show that she just reminded us, in this industry, although it can feel like everything is urgent, realistically, there are very few parts of the project that are an actual emergency, that there are very few things, you know, a pipe broke or, you know, something's flooding or, you know, something cracked during install.
And I think that sometimes it's really helpful to hear that, that even though it is so personal and so expensive and, you know, so intertwined in. In personal life, that, yeah, we are not curing curing brain cancer. Unfortunately, that is not what we're doing.
[00:37:08] Speaker A: We are definitely not. I would never be able to do that. But, like, then I think about it from the other end, and it's like, no one's doing it maliciously. They're just excited.
Like, And. And I had a client once, and we joke about it to this day, where she used to text me, like, updates or a wallpaper went up or she found something at a store, and she'd be like, kylie, I just, like, feel like you're my, like, my best friend who cares as deeply about my houses as I do. Like, and so it's just. It's funny because they're not texting you, saying, oh, it's 8:05pm I wonder what Kylie's doing. It's like they have a question or they're thinking about their house or, you know, this is fun for them. This isn't their 9 to 5. And so I'm not mad about it. I don't get upset. It's just, it's like that balance of just not letting them lose that excitement because I haven't lost it. I just need to then transition my brain to think about different things during different parts of the day.
[00:38:04] Speaker B: If you've been listening to the Interior
[00:38:06] Speaker C: Collective for a while, you probably have
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I'm curious if you've had to unlearn any habits from advertising that just has not translated well into design.
[00:38:44] Speaker A: I mean, well, this is the perfect segue then, because the answer is equating speed with progress.
And it really just comes down for me to the fact that I crave efficiency so much. I think I say it like 50 times a day to the point where it's annoying, but that part of my past life is, is so ingrained in me and it's still very much who I am. And so that combined with a client, of course, wanting something immediately and wanting that instant gratification is such a bad combo for me because in design, efficient efficiency is obviously important. Duh. But so is like giving the ideas and the decisions that you need to make some time to breathe. You know, they, they need a little bit of space so that you're not constantly being like, oh, I made a decision, I want this. And then going to sleep and being like, why did I tell Kylie I want this? I want something else now. Like, it's just like, let it have a second.
So now I would say, like, we try to focus on intentional efficiency. So we're moving quickly where it helps and slowing down where the process would become more improved.
So I think that I've been better at this.
It goes in waves. But, you know, it's just, it's important
[00:40:02] Speaker B: to remember since we're talking about like, efficiency is. I should have asked this question earlier when I, when I first Thought about it. But going back to how you are so successful at time tracking everything and your team is successful at time tracking everything. I, I just hear so many questions from people like how do you actually enforce it? How, how do and make time in the day to track all of that time? Can you just talk us through what you found to be a sweet spot? And I'm sure it is repetition and practice. It's not an easy thing. But how do you, how do you even account for that time of tracking said time?
[00:40:44] Speaker A: It's a great question. I'd say like anyone who works with us knows that it's just part of the day and you know, look, it's probably annoying for a lot of people, fine. But it's just, it's the only way that we can be informed as we grow and get bigger and take on bigger clients and, and work with higher budget levels.
But the way that it works for me is I like adding time in real time. So if I'm finishing a project, I'll know when I started, look at where I ended, add it to our billing.
You know, for some people, I know that they like putting it in as calendar invites and then doing it at the end of the day.
Everyone on my team like has a different way of tracking their time. But I encourage everyone to do it after a task. But if you have, you know, a day where you're kind of back and forth, back and forth, do it at the end of the day.
I will say though, and I have, you know, our back end team as my witness. I'm because I know the territory that I'm in with billing hourly.
I am so crazy about reviewing our hourly invoices before they're sent out. So we work with and I'm honestly surprised this is the first time they're coming up. But we work with the everything but design team for a lot of aspects of the business. Procurement.
Stacy's my business advisor. I love her.
But then they also help us with our bookkeeping and our finances.
And so their team at the end of the month will export all of our invoices. And I spend hours on a weekend unfortunately. But like, you know, that's just like when I have the time and I will review these invoices with a fine tooth comb.
So if I feel like, you know, I know that this is how much time so and so spent on this task, but I have more experience and I could have done it in like two hours less, I will adjust it. And I know that that's probably controversial.
I Might be, you know, contradicting some things that I said. But, like, I think that that's just kind of within my comfort level of. I feel so confident when I send our hourly that I know that, like, they're probably getting a better deal than if I weren't to review everything.
And again, it's not about the girls. Like, I love my team. We're a small team. I see them every single day. I know what they're doing every single day. They work their asses off like, they're the best.
But if I think that we have slightly too many edits or we did slightly too many versions of this presentation or furniture plan or whatever, I know that that happened. And I will adjust that on the back end, um, so it just. It feels fair for everybody. And it also, you know, it takes out that pressure of, like, I need to know, like, to the exact minute, because I'm telling you right now, like, I edit. I edit my hourly invoices every month.
[00:43:50] Speaker B: How are you billing or not billing for the actual act of tracking time? Does that just get put in as admin? And that's not billable time. Okay, great.
[00:44:00] Speaker A: Probably why I do it on the weekends again, goes against what I just said about trying to, you know, be better at that. But this is something that I feel very strongly about. And again, I could have people who've been billing like this forever be like, kylie, what are you doing? Like, that's not. That's not right. They spent the time on it. Bill them for it. But because I've. I feel so strongly, and I've. I've been in situations before where people are frustrated, but bi. Hourly or, you know, it's the same way where, like, anyone who sends you hourly, even if it's as fair as, you know, it is, you get a pit in your stomach when you're opening an invoice. And I know that. Like, I know that to my core. And so I just. I. I care a lot about making sure that our invoices are reflective of what I feel they should be, as opposed to, like, overdoing it just for the sake of getting them out quicker.
[00:44:53] Speaker B: Well, I appreciate you sharing that because it is not a popular opinion, but I think. But I think that it is much more commonplace than people are willing to admit. So I appreciate your. Your candor.
[00:45:06] Speaker A: Very. I'm very open with this stuff, and. And my clients know that about me. But ultimately, when I switched jobs, you know, I knew how the money was coming in in corporate America. Like, there was. There was like, it was just very clear systems. And I remember when I switched jobs and I was talking to a lot of people about getting into this industry, there was no straight line and it drove me nuts. And I hated that I had to figure it out for myself. And again, like, as much as I wish I could go to a flat fee model, all of our information just shows how different every project is. And so I just feel like it's the most fair for everybody.
[00:45:51] Speaker B: Absolutely. Let's talk about your team real quick. Can you talk us through how many people are on the team and what that studio structure looks like today?
[00:45:58] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. So there are four of us in the office every day.
We have one part time intern who comes in a couple times a week. And then like I mentioned, the kind of extension of KKB Interiors is the everything but design team.
So it feels like we have eight, but you know, because we're zooming all the time. We see, you know, my team in person, we see each other, but it feels like there are eight of us. And I love everyone so much and you know, we have like such a nice balance of, you know, being personal and humans and then working really hard. And so it's been really lovely.
But as far as the structure goes, at least right now, it's a constant topic of conversation that we talk about because I'm so crazy about making KKB interiors more efficient, always function better, everything.
But right now we all work on everything, but at different stages.
So I am always, again going to be your first person that you talk to. We ideate together, we do our kickoff call together. I'm putting together mood boards and talking through things with you, with, you know, my interior designer who's doing more of the creative with us.
And then as the, as we've worked through the project, you know, my junior designer will pick up the furniture plans or sometimes we'll outsource if we need to be like tracing a really large project. Again, from an efficiency standpoint, if someone is tracing something and that is their job, they're going to go way quicker than us, you know, spending way more time. And so that's more beneficial for the clients.
And then, you know, it's just kind of like teared out on our team based on what the job responsibility is. But from our, from our clients perspective, they always feel that like they know who the person is to reach out to for each step of the process.
Um, but they also always know that if they ever need me, I'm always here.
[00:48:08] Speaker B: Can you talk to us about how you decide which tasks stay on your plate versus gets delegated.
[00:48:14] Speaker A: Um, so I feel like I'm trying again, very hard. I am a type A person to my core. I would have my hands in everything if I could and I'm actively trying not to because it's not productive for anyone. Um, but it's. If a client genuinely needs me, if a task should be mine, if it's something that should be coming from me, I will take it. Otherwise, I'll delegate and always be there as a helping hand if someone has a question.
[00:48:43] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
Can you talk to us about your experience working, you know, within agency teams and how that has influenced you to build your own internal company culture? Because, you know, startup life versus corporate life is so different. And then, and on top of that, you add in the layer of a creative startup, a female owned and founded startup. It's different.
[00:49:10] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's, it's definitely different. And like I said, like, I've loved all my teams, so this is never a knock on them because I actually think that I had a lot of like, really good models to like, represent why our company culture is the way it is now.
So like every, every boss that I've had in the past has been just the most hard working person.
So strong. Like, I just looked up to them all so much.
But they also had like a very easy ability to turn off. Like, we would go to lunch, we would see each other for coffee in the morning and like, we would just chat as humans and like not, you know, you're the boss, I'm the specialist.
So I always like, loved that ability to like separate work from just like your life.
So that was really important to me when we were, when I was starting KKB Interiors. I mean, like, it goes as far as when I signed my first lease, I wouldn't even call it an office. I called it the KKBI Lounge. Like, I just, it was, I just, I needed everything to feel light and inviting.
And so, you know, I, I practice what I preach. I'm a super casual person. I'm not very formal, I'm very buttoned up. But like, what you get from me now is the same version of me that my clients get, that my teams get, that my kids get, that my, you know, my husband gets most of the time, unless I'm hating on him. But, you know, so I just, I try to be me at all times and I bring that into the office. Like, we'll start our day with a status and then talk about the pop culture. Thing that's happened, you know, over the weekend or so and so was on vacation, so and so was on a bachelorette party. We had two weddings last summer on our team. And I spent a full day and a half beaming their photos and wedding videos just like on the tv because like, your life is your life. Like, we do this job and we're lucky, we get to do an awesome job where we're like changing people's lives even if we're not saving them. I mean, in some ways we're mentally saving them, but you know, we're creating these beautiful spaces for them.
And you also have to know that there are people who have lives behind that too. And I find that really important.
[00:51:41] Speaker B: For designers who don't come from a corporate background or specifically advertising background, what is one strategic mindset shift you think would immediately improve their business?
[00:51:54] Speaker A: I think that structure protects creativity. And you don't need a corporate background to be strategic. You just need to have clarity and intention and the willingness to treat your work like the business. It is amazing.
[00:52:12] Speaker B: Are there any, like, tools, processes, or like, even ways of thinking designers could borrow from advertising without making things overly complex?
[00:52:23] Speaker A: I think that my previous jobs have taught me the value of knowing exactly where things stands at all time. So timelines, status updates, making sure nothing falls through the cracks and then being able to find that information quickly. Like, I joke that it's the simplest thing, but like, clearly labeled email subject lines are so important for me.
Client, subtopic, sub, sub topic. You know, just like make everything super, super clear so that you can always find things and write everything down.
[00:52:59] Speaker B: What do you think designers misunderstand most about the business side of creativity?
[00:53:07] Speaker A: I think that some designers think that the business side of creativity is what kills the actual creative part.
And I've seen that misconception over the years for sure. But in reality, what I've learned is that when your business is solid, you're freer to be more creative because you're not constantly stressed and bogged down and reacting and putting out fires.
And also, again, I tell myself this all the time, but it's important to remember that even if you're starting a design firm, at its core it is a business. So structure isn't an option.
[00:53:46] Speaker B: Absolutely. Looking back, what do you feel is one business decision that you made early on that you feel like has set KKB up for long term sustainability as a business?
[00:54:03] Speaker A: I think it was taking KKB interior seriously. Like from the second I started getting hired by people who weren't just My friends, I've always cared about my purpose and how the business was operating and how I could do better all the time and how we as a business could do better.
So I was. Yeah, I mean, I still am. I'm constantly trying to improve myself and how we run as a firm.
Obviously I don't have it all figured out. I. I mean, I'll tell you right now, I deal with imposter syndrome all the time still. It just goes to show.
And I do not walk around this industry with an ego, but I show up with respect and I respect the work, I respect the business, I respect my clients who trust me with their homes. And I think that caring a lot and paying attention and always wanting to improve is what is creating this like long term sustainability for me more than any like single tactical decision that I've ever made.
Again, it goes back to like, we are in the high end service industry and I don't forget that.
[00:55:18] Speaker B: Is there anything you have coming up that's top secret or super exciting at KKB Interiors that you can share with us?
[00:55:26] Speaker A: I will say that 2026 is off to a really nice start.
I feel really energized and it kind of feels like the pieces are falling into place the way that they should.
But we have a couple of like really exciting project placements coming up and some firm recognitions. I can't share them yet, but I feel really good and content.
[00:55:50] Speaker B: Oh, that's so exciting. I can't wait to see what those are. And finally, if you could give just one piece of advice to a designer who feels creatively very confident but business shy, what would it be?
[00:56:07] Speaker A: Well, this is my number one piece of advice period.
But it is surround yourself with people who are better than you.
I am the first person to say, I don't know what I don't know. Like again, talk about things that I say on repeat, like vendors, colleagues, advisors. If I don't know someone, something, I will be the first person to say, I need help and I can't do this.
So it's just like having that confidence and that strength to know that you don't have to figure it out on your own. And being honest about what you don't know, I find that to be a strength.
And when you build, you know, a circle of people around you who are smarter or more experienced than you in certain areas, that business side becomes way less intimidating.
[00:56:55] Speaker B: I think that that actually does bring this whole conversation full circle because you were talking about trust so much with your clients and just being so honest with them. When someone tells me I don't actually know the answer to that, let me figure it out. Let me ask someone else. My trust level with them is infinitely higher because I have no question, like, are they just making up an answer?
And so admitting I don't know what I don't know actually is such a strength because it's like, absolutely, I trust that they're going to figure this out. Knowing that they don't know the answer
[00:57:29] Speaker A: right now all comes back to trust. And it's like, if you're lying about things that you don't know, it's always going to come back up. You know, you're always going to find out if someone's lying about something. And especially in this business where it is so personal and you're so intertwined in people's lives and contractors and, you know, everyone involved, you have to be honest, otherwise you're going to royally mess something up and cost a lot of someone else's money.
[00:57:59] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
Kylie, thank you so much. This was so informative and super transparent and I just value that so much on this show and I'm really grateful that you brought it to today's episode.
[00:58:10] Speaker A: Yeah, of course. Thank you for having me.
[00:58:12] Speaker B: It was great to finally meet you.
[00:58:14] Speaker A: You too.
[00:58:16] Speaker C: For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more, don't forget to to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] the Interior Collective thank you so, so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations.
A big, huge thank you to our production team at IDCO Studio and Quinn made. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible.
Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living.
[00:59:15] Speaker B: A very special thanks to our presenting sponsor, Laloi, the makers of beautifully crafted rugs, pillows and wall art. And to our episode sponsor and season partner, Materia, the design platform, helping interior designers source materials, manage specifications and streamline project workflows.
