The Kips Bay Sprint: What It Really Takes to Survive the Most Famous Showhouse

Anastasia Casey: Hello Avery, welcome to my snug. It was so fun to have you on our first live recorded podcast and first time we're ever recording it with video. So thank you for being so brave to come join me. Avery Cox: So welcome, I'm just thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me. And I just think what you're doing is so cool. I'm so impressed by your business. And I really just feel so proud of Austin design scene right now. And I'm just thrilled to be here and be able to speak to that. A Casey: Well, you're a really, really big part of that. When I think about Austin Design and Austin Designers, there's a handful of people that I am like, are putting out work that is my favorite work in the country. And you are one of those. A Cox: That is flattering. Thank you. A Casey: But I feel you. feel like Austin's design scene is on the cusp of being taken real seriously. Like we're right there. And so super excited in the midst of the chaos that is, you know, running a business, being a mom, doing all of those things. You're also in the thick of Kip's face showhouse right now. And so the fact that you've taken out afternoon to sit with us is so kind. Thank you for doing that. But I want everybody to get to know you prior to Kips Bay so that we get the background story to your fascinating path. And you studied design at University of Georgia. You went to New York to work. Eventually, you launched your own studio back here in Texas because you grew up in Dallas, correct? Walk us through that journey and how you feel that those unique chapters have shaped the work you're putting out today. A Cox: Yeah, well, you know, it's interesting. I look back at my childhood and I realized the seed was planted long, long ago. I grew up in this, in Dallas, like you said, in this art modern home that was full of color and artistry. My mom was an artist. My dad was a banker. So they're kind of like two personalities collided into this like joyful, quirky, lively place to grow up. So art and architecture had just always been a language that I could speak from an early age. And so it took a little bit of time to realize that I went to the University of Georgia more in pursuit of a quintessential Southern university experience and an awesome college town. Totally. Yeah. I got way more than that. But after being there for a semester as an undecided major, when I was home for Christmas break, my parents strongly suggested that I take a career aptitude test. And this is where I'm like, this is so cliche, but like the answers to that test resulted in me choosing the career path that I did. It was like architect, interior designer, engineer, all these things that utilize a lot of different sides of my personality and my skillset. Georgia just happened to have this really great accredited interior design program within the art school. So that was it. I just jumped on that train and graduated in 2009 fallout of the financial crisis decided to move to New York because I was naive and why not? New York, it's just, has always been a fantasy for me. It's sort of in my mind, the crown jewel of like where, um, American chic design like originated. And I just wanted to go and see if I could do it. And I had been connected with the editor from Elle Decor friend of a friend that I had a, you know, 10 minute phone call with. And her advice was, if you're gonna do it, go there and work for the best possible person that you can, even if it's for free, which nobody was paying at that time, especially for first jobs for kids right out of design school. So I landed an internship at Jamie Drake Design and he, even though I was only there for a couple months, made such an impact on my career trajectory and just exposed me to high design and residential design that I hadn't really studied in school. And then from there, I moved over to work with Amanda Nisbet, who I finished my time with in New York City and between the two of them, I learned so much about color and just my passion for this industry was really solidified in those two really unique experiences. So that's kind how I got into the career in interior design. And then I took a hard left turn and I ended up moving up to Portland, Maine my boyfriend at the time was from there Was moving back was starting this little brewery in the woods and I was like that sounds so great I'm gonna go I'm just gonna go and I'll maybe work part-time for a designer and help open this thing and I you know, it's like I don't remember how I mean I was very young at this time. And I just like, I've always had that sort of romantic personality where I'm like, just go for it and see what happens and try things. And I think my parents really encouraged me to do that. I feel really lucky that like one, I was allowed to major in interior design and art. Two, they were like, sure, go to New York with no plan and figure it out. Three, when I was like, I'm going to move to Maine, which is way far away from Texas. They were like, sounds like you got to try it. And so I did. And I took a little break from interior design while I was there. I worked for this awesome woman, Addie Fisher, who really taught me about like how to run a business. So I kind of learned that aspect of things, like not doing a home that is only in custom furniture, like sourcing things from manufacturers in North Carolina and lighting manufacturers and all this stuff. So that expanded my, you know, resource knowledge bank. But I also was kind of working on the side and food and beverage and other things related to my relationship at that time. But yeah, Maine was magical. It held a lot for me. I lost my mom while I was living up there. And eventually I just felt that tug of my home state and moved to Austin in 2016 and kind of just dove right in and here we are 10 years later almost. A Casey: You grew up in Dallas. Why was Austin where you came back to? A Cox: Great question. Having come from Portland, Maine, and having lived in Athens, Georgia, I wanted a town that felt similarly motivated towards like art and food and just a little bit quirkier, a little bit funkier, a little more casual. And Austin felt like the perfect place to try out because it was moving home without being next door to my family. I didn't really know anybody here, it turns out once I got here, know, people come out of the woodwork. Yeah, I really just picked it. I just thought, well, man, I've always like heard about Austin. People love it. The university's there like it's got a similar vibe. So yeah, it just felt like it would be a easier transition from the woods of Maine. A Casey: So that was 2014 that you mentioned? 2016. Okay. I've actually been in Austin longer than you. Wow. I've been here since 2013. And it's a few years. You're such a local. And so you say that you like, came to Austin to try it out. Yeah. Here we are almost 10 years later. Yeah. And Austin feels like home for you? A Cox: Austin feels like home. I, you know, I love Dallas. Like people that live here in Austin, a lot of times they're like, don't, don't Dallas my Austin, don't Houston my Austin. I love Dallas and, I love spending time there. So I think really Dallas will probably always be home, but I think someone, you know, people have many spiritual homes across their lifetime and Austin is for sure one of those. Um, I'm pretty settled here, but I'm always up for adventure. So never say never on, you know, shifting that plan. A Casey: Absolutely, okay, I would love to hear and this is actually something I don't personally know going into this conversation. So it's great. I'd love to hear more about your team. And like what is the company structure? How many people do you have worried for you if you have anybody? Yeah. And kind of who's on staff, what you might outsource. A Cox: Right now we have four people helping us. So I have, it's me and then I have two senior designers and they each manage their own projects. And then we have a junior designer who works across all projects, helping with floor plans, extra sourcing, you know, pricing, just all of the support that the senior needs. And then we have our operations manager who is sort of the glue that, connects all the dots for all those projects and the running of our business. So she does all procurement, she sends out bills, she manages the office. And then she also just pitches in for special projects like things like Kipps Bay or things like we want to have like a sale or want to have a Christmas party. Like those are the kinds of things that she can also help me out with. A Casey: Amazing. I love that with a team of four, you have two senior designers. Yeah. I think that that is something that I am learning more and more with more conversations with designers like this or when I learn from people at Design Camp that actually having senior designers are some of your smartest first hires aside from operations. If you want to be designing, you know, hire someone else to do the operations. Talk to me about how you got to a team of two seniors, who you hired first. Were they one of your first hires and if you were starting over, would you rearrange that order of hire? A Cox: It's hard to know if I would do things differently just because I feel like how things are the way it unfolded was a success. But one of my senior designers was my first full-time hire way back in 2018, early 2018 I think is when Jillian came on board and she started as a part-time assistant and just gradually moved up to senior designer where she is now. And I agree. I think having two people at the top that can actually take work off your plate is the key to growth and being able to manage the number of projects that we do because I'm not on all the communication. I'm not the person that the clients are interfacing with, you know, every day. This allows me to really zoom out and lend what my value add is, which is the creativity and the design direction and sort of these like North Star setting capabilities. So I hired, so Jillian has been with me, God, is it like eight years, I guess, almost, which is so crazy. I'm so proud of her. She came from a different industry too. So like that was a whole evolution of our business together, which was really fun. And then I hired an operations person and that was so key. I mean, that was, that changed my life because this person came in also from a different industry and was like, have you ever heard of Slack? Have you heard of Asana task management? Like all these systems that we just didn't have cause it was just me and at the time an assistant and I didn't really know, you know, I didn't work for large firms or large corporate environments that taught me how to structure a business. So this person really like came in and made things right and allowed us to really get a clear financial picture of what was happening. What is our process both creatively and client facing? What's our strategy growth wise, marketing wise? And so that person was in place and then we hired our next senior designer who started as just a project designer. So the two senior designers who I have now, when I hired that operations, had two project designers and then they just grew into the role. Frances about a year ago as our junior and she's just crushing it. A Casey: Amazing. Walk us through what your role in like day to day looks like. I know you were talking about like it's big picture, it's creative direction, but not necessarily even per project, kind of like for the brand as a whole. Let's say Kipp's Bay aside when you're not doing a show. Yes. What is your day to day really consist of? A Cox: You know, no day is the same. Every day is different in this role. Sometimes I'm HR, sometimes I'm PR, sometimes I'm, you know, just cleaning up the office, taking out the trash. But most of the time I feel really proud that we have systems in place where I am touching each project weekly with each project manager and senior designer. And so I'm spending a lot of time in internal meetings and client facing meetings, dialing in the design and presenting the design. So the bulk of my time is this, like, like I said, this like high value add to each project. I'm not doing any of the pricing. I'm not doing any of that support work, but I'm there to edit and to provide direction. So there's a lot of that. And then there's weekly meetings with my team and my operations manager. So there's just a lot of like repetitive upkeep check-in management type of work daily. And then, you know, I have like a little bit of time to do some research here and there and shop and, but I'm really, I'm really involved in all the projects. Then the other just huge part of my role is business development. I'm the person bringing in the jobs. I'm the one interviewing clients. I'm the one creating proposals and writing budgets and making sure this aligns with our goals. And so that takes up a really big chunk of my time too. A Casey: Technical question, sorry. Your senior designers are doing all of the design for that. You're overseeing it, of course. You mentioned that you are doing the presentations. Is that correct? A Cox: I'm there. I'm there. Usually my senior designers are actually doing the presentation. They're the ones like, here's the living room and here's why we thought this and this. And I will pitch in when I feel like my voice is needed or I need to like push an idea over the edge. A Casey: You need a little sprinkle on top. A Cox: Yeah, yeah. The convincing. So yeah. And then, you know, as it's client specific to and project specific and some projects are just too big for one person to present the whole room. We'll just, or the whole project. So we'll switch off, but the senior designers are at a point where they have my full confidence to be able to take the reins on that stuff. A Casey: It's amazing. It's an amazing gift you give them to let them run it and also present it. A Cox: Yeah, I mean, the more you let people do things, the better at it they get. So this only helps me. A Casey: Okay, other presentation questions because I don't think I've ever seen one of your presentations and I would just die to because I love your print materials. But for your design presentations, do you guys present whole home top to bottom, like full construction all the way to furnishings in the first presentation? Do you guys space it out? And then also you said some projects are so big, like we can't, one person cannot present the whole thing. Do you guys ever break your presentations up into like day one, day two? A Cox: We find that our clients have like a 90 minute attention span. And so if it can't fit in 90 minutes, it's another day. And that's honestly same for me. Like the creative output is so intense in our work that I start to lose, I get slack, you know, like I lose feeling in my face if we go past, you know, 90 minutes, two hours max. So yes, we break our creative process up into three really defined chunks. So we have our look and feel presentation, which is the right brain, left brain presentation. It's the function. So we're always, we're all trained into your designers too. So we're like doing all the drawings. We're doing our floor plans. We're talking about the structure and how the space functions from a, from a design and spatial point of view. And then we're pairing that with a mood board that gives an overall feel, emotion, example of color palette, materiality. And so with those two things combined, I have always felt like this sort of sets the direction for the project. And then we will get sign off on that and move into the sourcing phase. I've never been someone that can just present the whole home top to bottom with construction materials and furnishings. I just, I can't work that way. So we do it where we present everything that's attached to the building first. We're also, we really prioritize working with contractors and architects. So we're usually working on a team project where there's a major construction element that requires answers sooner than we're ready to pick the sofa fabric. Sorry. That's kind of how we work, so we'll do the construction presentation, is wallpaper, lighting, hardware, tile, anything attached. And that's just, that's the filter for it. And then we move on to furnishings after that. And to get specific on your question, we're usually presenting one option for all those things, which I know is a big hot topic in your podcast. And a lot of people do it a lot of different ways, but we feel like because we've spent so much time on the front end developing the direction and the North Star for this project, once we present our construction selections, there's not a whole lot of need for many multiple options because we have a budget and we have a direction and we know that this thing we're presenting is aligned with that. So typically we'll get feedback on that and there will be a few things that we need to find alternates for, but ultimately, like, it saves us a lot of time and the clients typically sign off. A Casey: Okay, next question. You know, I'm going to ask this because I ask everybody, I want to know about your pricing structure. Do you charge hourly or flat rate, but then I also know that you only present one concept. Are you guys charging for revisions? How does that fit into that? So let's start with just the basic question. Yeah, how do you guys charge? A Cox: We charge hourly. That's how I was taught and it has worked for me this whole time. so we charge hourly for any time we're touching the project. I currently don't separate it into, you know, procurement or track any of that. It's just, you know, straight hourly, same number all across. It, you know, is tiered based on who's touching the project. So I bill operations at a lower rate than I'm billed, but it's just pretty straightforward. And then we charge a markup on the goods that we purchase for the project. We've tinkered around with flat fee and we've thought about offering some different services. And that's something that we're currently working on. And that's pretty exciting to think about formulas, et cetera. But that pricing structure has not changed since day one. Obviously we've gone up in price. The thing that has changed that has made a huge difference in our firm is how we are able to estimate and communicate what the all in cost is going to be for the clients from the beginning. Because I think that's where I have personally gotten in hot water before. And I know other designers struggle with that and clients really struggle with that, with that, you know, there's so many times where you can't say what a job is going to cost. So I have spent a lot of time trying to answer that question and I think we've gotten pretty good at giving a very accurate target that we've been hitting in the jobs over the past three years. A Casey: And so just to make it crystal clear throughout the entire project, all the way to install, it's still just hourly. Yeah. And if you have your senior designer and your junior and you all on site for something, are you billing each of those hours? A Cox: Great, time is money. Yeah, yeah. So if we're investing our energy in your project or if we're doing something that you would have to do, we're charging for it. A Casey: Yeah, how does your team, how do you guide your team to commit to tracking every email time, like all of that time? Because I think people's biggest reluctance to say, oh I know, like I know we're profitable or like I know what it costs to do this, but they're not actually tracking all that time. How do you guide your team of women to like be on top of it? A Cox: Yeah, well, it's taken a lot of training. I'm the worst at it. So I'm not leading by example. I can tell you that. But we just require everybody to record 40 hours a week. And that's how I know that you're fulfilling your contract with me as a full-time employee. A Casey: So your girl's bill, full 40. A Cox: They don't bill 40 hours. They record 40 hours. They're probably at 70. My seniors are at 75% billable about 70% or that's the goal. That's the goal. This year has been slower, you know, which we'll get to that, but that is our goal. And so they know they've got about two and a half hours per day or an hour, you know, whatever to work on internal ACD stuff and all the rest of their time is being billed and that's also like a signal to me if Jillian comes to me and she's like I don't I can't bill more time to this project I'm done with this thing like I need more work that's how I know how we are ready for another project. A Casey: OK, before we get into Kipp's Bay, one last question. How many projects are you guys typically like? What is a sweet spot now for you to be holding? How many projects are you holding at one time? Obviously in totally different phases. But your team of five, including you, what is that number? A Cox: I think a sweet spot is like eight. Okay. If I can have each person, each senior designer managing like four and maybe I'm managing a side project and maybe our junior designer is even like trying her hand at managing a small project. I think eight feels really good. That just bandwidth wise, think creatively and how we have our process set up for our check-ins for each presentation and how that pacing goes, that's about as much as we can handle. Now, the difference is there's like a scale thing happening where the bigger projects we can achieve a lot more in the same pace if there's more content. And the smaller projects will require it like the same amount of time and effort. So that's where it gets a little hard. The eight projects, it's like, well, what is that scale? And if they're all at the same time, that's not possible too. They need to be staggered in phases. But I generally say each designer should have one to two, either a full gut renovation or a new build. Each designer should have a furnishings only project. And then each designer should have a fledgling kind one room, sort of smaller size one. So that's kind of the goal. A Casey: As you have been listening to this podcast, you have heard a wide range of software recommendations, tools for sourcing, invoicing, time tracking and beyond. But if you've tried piecing them all together, you've likely ended up with a system that can feel disjointed and you are not alone. The truth is it is not you. What you needed just didn't exist until now. Meet Materio, M-A-T-E-R-I-O, a powerful operating system built specifically for interior design firms. From the first mood board to the final installation, Materio brings every phase of your project into one streamlined intuitive platform, procurement, client billing, task management, it's all connected and it actually makes sense. Design smarter, stress less. Try it for free at getmaterial.com. Interior collective listeners receive 50% off their first month. A Casey: Okay, let's talk about Kipps Bay. Specifically Kipps Bay Dallas, it's different and it's like one of arguably the biggest show houses in the country. And it feels like such a full circle moment for you to be deciding back in Dallas. What made you say yes to this? A Cox: It really is full circle because when I was working for Amanda Nisbet I was on her team when she did Kipps Bay New York and that experience really stuck with me. Just the glamour of it and it felt like, you know, I did middle school theater too. So it's like the week before opening night and people are like, my costume ripped. And it's just like, it was so fun to problem solve and be a part of that energy in that community that I was like, someday I will do this myself under my own name. And so when I got the call, I just was like, well, I mean, you know, also you just don't say you don't say no to Kipps Bay. They and it just they came calling. And so I just, you know, just felt right. I mean, if they think it's time for me to do it, I think it's time to. And so, yeah, yeah, I have always loved the whole concept and was excited to say yes. After checking on finances and checking with my family, you know, all that. You know, once that got cleared, then I was like, I can't wait. A Casey: Okay, can we talk a little bit about Kipps Bay Calling? What did that process look like? Was it something? Because you work with Caroline Pinkston. From a PR perspective. Was it something that like you had floated to her and you're like, I would like to do this? Walk us through how you get an invitation. A Casey: You know, think it's I'll just speak to my experience, is Jean Liu, fabulous from Dallas called me to offer me a spot in this year's show house. And we had met and crossed paths when we were both asked to participate in this quirky dollhouse design event in Houston. And we sort of bonded over, you know, applying our own tiny crown molding to it plywood box of 12 rooms, which was an incredibly huge undertaking and really difficult, which could be its own podcast. And so I think just through that, we became friends and she recognized how much work that was and that we pulled it off in a short amount of time and the deadline. So that's a really big part of what they're looking for when they ask designers, do you have the bandwidth, the team, the resources to complete something of this magnitude on time and well. And so I was very flattered that she thought, well, if you could do the dollhouse Kipps Bay will be so easy. And she was mostly, mostly right about that. So she called and that's how I got connected to this Dallas show house. I don't know how it works for other designers, but that's how it worked for me. So I think it's like, keep putting yourself out there, keep doing stuff, keep participating. And eventually it's, all roads lead to Kipps Bay. Yeah. Yeah. A Casey: Okay, so for designers listening and watching, I feel like until you've done a show house, you don't understand what goes into a show house. Can you walk us through the process of, okay, so you've got the call, you got the invitation. What from receiving your room assignment to installation day, which we are not yet at. A Cox: We're not there yet. It's next week. It's on Tuesday. For real, this is great. This is good. I'm I'm like live processing, you know, visualizing and it's going to go great. A Casey: Yeah, you're realizing you absolutely should have said no to me. yeah. So, okay, talk us through the process of what is the timeline? What does really look like? A Cox: Yeah, there's a lot more to it than even I realized and I had done it before with Amanda. They call, they offer you the spot. You receive your room assignment in early August. So Kips Bay Dallas opens to the public November 7th. Okay. Get your tickets. Go see. So early August is when everybody was given their official room assignments. And once you're given that room assignment and you to sign a contract, You have to pay a fee. You have to do all these things to be green lit to access your space. Once you have access to your space, you can start work immediately. Some people had their contractors already lined up. They were in there demoing, doing everything. But once you are given the keys to your room, you're responsible for everything all the way through the pencils down day, which is October 30th. So that's all the demo. That's all the design, that's all of the ordering of the materials, the implementation, all of that installation, all the way up to styling and keeping your room clean. A Casey: And it is also construction, electrical, plumbing, stuff you need to bring in your own contractor. A Cox: You have to bring in your own person for everything. There are a few exceptions to this rule. Like any good show house, there are sponsors. And so there are some required partners that you need to use for certain elements of your design, which we can speak to. But ultimately, it's really your chance to lean on your own network, which is why I always say, you know, maybe don't do it in your first year of business. It helps to have people that you've built a relationship with to help you out. A Casey: The fact that your studio is based here in Austin, but, and you guys do work in Dallas. We do work in Dallas, So it wasn't a big stretch for you to have a team who was available to do so. A Casey: No, and you know, part of this part of the process, like you asked is you get your room assignment, you start your design and then you start making all of your asks. So once you have sort of a direction, you kind of start to know I'm going to need a trim carpenter. I'm going to need cabinets. I'm going to need painter. And so for us personally, we just calculated, well, who is the person that that does this the best? And for us, it was a wonderful contractor that we had worked with on a project in Dallas. I called him up. He was so kind. He was so generous and he gave us, we are actually one of the only firms doing our own GCing of this Kips Bay project because we just really tried to simplify our design and not do too much. But he gave me all the trades and he made sure they were available and that they were going to, you know, provide their time and their energy to our space. So that was like, that was a huge unlock. And so yeah it was natural to kind of use our partners in Dallas and lean on that for sure. A Casey: Got it. Yeah. OK. And when you're saying that he gave you the trades, made sure they were available. So you as the designer are required to provide these trades, whether that means you're paying them out of pocket or you're able to get them to donate their time or whatever that was. Is that correct? This could be like a massive investment for someone. A Cox: That's right. Yeah. 100%. It is absolutely a huge financial commitment and the range varies. You know, I think if you're given a small room and if you're really strategic about how you design and how you lean on sponsors and ask your vendors to participate, you can save a lot. But if you're trying to do something that is really different or, you know, somebody's not in a place to provide free product then you're paying for it. Obviously kitchens and baths cost more, I think. So, you know, I think it just, the range is there, but I would say if we're talking real numbers, like I think a starting cost assumption would be that you're gonna invest 50K in this at least. A Casey: And that's in addition to the fee, the participation fee. A Cox: That's all in, I think. And if you're strategic, you may be able to come in under that. But I mean, I've heard from people from last year's show house that's spent up to 200K. So it's a, it's really big and you know, the bigger rooms, the more photography you have, the more you can get on your investment. So that's all part of the calculation, I think. A Casey: And you might not be the person that can answer this question, but because Kips Bay is a charitable event. Yes. You're able to write all of this off as a charitable deduction or it's a business expense. Like, obviously both are business expenses, but like, is it does it go towards marketing dollars or does it go towards? A Cox: That's a great question. I'm going to have to ask my accountant that I'm pretty sure we can write this off as well. Either way would not be taxable because it's a business. Yes. I don't know how that works with the added layer of it being for a charitable donation, charitable event. I might have to get back to you on that. You know that sponsors and other people donating product )it's definitely a write-off. Yeah. Yeah. A Casey: Of course. OK, let's talk about parameters or kind of expectations that the designers have to work within. So we've had I had I was telling you before we started recording, I had an amazing conversation with Hema Persad from Sagrada Studio, who was at Design Camp this spring. She was talking about the real simple house and she was just talking about how it is a house of someone like someone donates their house to do this. And they essentially are like, yeah, you guys get to do whatever you want. But there are still some there is, least in that show house, there's criteria of like, okay, this person, for example, has three kids or like, you know, there are still parameters for someone will be living in this space. How does it work for Kip's Bay? A Cox: So for the Dallas Kipps Bay specifically, are, this is the first time I think in Kipps Bay history where they're going to be in the same location that they were last year. And this is not a residence. This is a more commercial hospitality looking space. It's a huge French chateau looking mansion in Dallas. And I think it's more geared towards like private club, my hotel, boutique hotel look. So there's not as many parameters regarding the owner of the building, but there are things that work to preserve what's existing in the building. There's parquet floor that's existing. There's crown molding. There's all these things that if you take it away, you have to put it back kind of thing. So that's a big, part of Kips Bay is the room remediation. And then regarding like health and safety and fire code, those are also big guideline requirements. You can't do anything that's gonna compromise the health and safety of anybody visiting the show house. So like you can't remove sprinklers or cover up lights without getting approval or mess with the glass on the windows, things like that. But otherwise, like creatively, at least for this show house, you really have a really free license to do whatever you want. A Casey: Hmm. So interesting. Well, I'm to talk about your creative process with it as well. A couple more like, yeah, specific questions. Really? How do you approach designing a room that's supposed to be of the moment and like feel like you're pushing design, but also in this like timeless mansion, especially knowing that's going to be seen by like thousands of people. Like, where did you even start this creative process of being like, this is my independent debut at Kip's Bay. A Cox: It is like a debutante ball. It is. That's what it is. Best comparison I've heard yet. A Casey: It's you're coming out partying. And so like how, how far do you feel like you pushed it? Do you feel like it's signature Avery Cox or do you feel like I had no limitations? So like this was stuff that I've never done, but like this is the coolest thing that I could have ever dreamed up. A Cox: Yeah, I think it's, I would not say it's the coolest thing I could have ever dreamed up because for me there are financial logistical limitations and also like I'm taking this chance to show off my brand and my inner voice and my perspective on design and a big part of what I do is I'm rooted in history and I'm a big fan of classical design and architecture and almost everything I do is connected to that. But I also have this like big expressive part of my personality that wants to push and wants to try new things. So our room and my approach to design and to the design of this room specifically is this concept of you have roots and wings, which my mom used to always say you give children the roots and their wings so that they're grounded, but they're able to still fly. So that's kind of like how I approach design and that's how I've approached this room. And the eternal question is like, how do you create timeless design while still being at the moment? Right? And I mean, my philosophy is just if you are, if you are producing from your own creative well and you are authentic to what you like and what stirs your soul, then it's going to feel it's going to feel timeless and authentic and of the moment, at least to you and hopefully to other people too. A Casey: What I think has always drawn me to your work is just like your incredible use of color and in such such an extreme but also like palatable way. Like it's so cozy, but it's also like, gosh, I would never have thought to like paint it this chartreuse. Like it's just amazing. Do you feel like there are signatures of yours represented in the Kips Bay project? A Cox: Our room is defined by color 100%. It is this Robins Egg blue and we've painted all the walls and all the trim in this color. And this I think really speaks to what I was just talking about, which is this is an iconic color that has been used throughout history and design from Marie Antoinette to Madeline Casting to Albert Hadley and Miles Red. And it feels like talk about it coming out. It's like, I feel excited to potentially step into this like lineage of people who have dared use this color in their design. And on a personal note, my mom and my dad painted the entryway and the stairwell of our house growing up in this exact color. So it feels like a real returning home moment for me and like something that really references my roots, but also the roots of American chic design. And so we started there and then we just, you know, thank you for your compliments about my use of color, but we start to build a palette around that. So I love to use a boundary pushing color and then I tone it down and I temper it with colors that have more gray in them or more brown or whatever. And so we just all together crafted this painter's palette of color and then kind of decided, well, do we want the sofa to be the chocolate brown or the drapes to be the chocolate brown? Where's the olive green gonna go? Where's the forest green gonna go? And we just kind of start to, you know, lay out and create the balance for the space. And we were really inspired by this concept of American chic design, this like old New York glamour, tailored lines, you know, the Billy Baldwin's, the Albert Hadley's. And so for our furnishings, we drew a lot of inspiration from that look. I think paired with the glamour of our very voluminous olive silk drapery and the really tailored chocolate brown sofa, all on the backdrop of this Robin's Egg blue, we're just really excited to feel like this feels tied to history, but a really fresh expression of something new. A Casey: I cannot, I cannot wait to see it. A Cox: Hopefully it works out. A Casey: Are you able to tell us what room you have? A Cox: We have a room, it's called the listening room, which, you know, Kips Bay, and this is part, just speaking back to the process, they name all the rooms, which is really so kind because they give you a little nudge. A direction. It's really hard to design without a client, as it turns out. I mean, if anyone's designers know this, but when you try to design for yourself, it's nearly impossible. So having like a small nudge and a direction one is actually really helpful and that helped us just design this room around the comfort of hanging out. We're not like one of those firms that's going to do some technical, you know, beautiful AV system. Like we're just creating a room where you can hang and lounge and yes, listen to records, but also have a glass of wine and communicate. So we are doing the listening room. The byline or the subtitle of our room is called blue in green, which is one of the tracks from Miles Davis's record and iconic record Kind of Blue. And I loved that riff on that because if you think of Miles Davis, he's like one of the most iconic improvisers of our time, American artistic expressive person. And so this color is also blue in green. And so that kind of tied back to our listening room and just this idea of expression and artistic riffing on classical ideas. A Casey: So cool. I would love to talk about partnerships again and how that works. Show houses require a lot of collaboration. And there's also just from like having my own brand partnerships on like a much smaller scale, like not like that. There's like a lot of deliverables required for that. Can you talk us through how you approached your vendors to participate in this? And then also you can just give like basic examples of what in turn what are the deliverables you need to be able to provide them with, if anything, or is just being in the show house enough? Yeah. A Cox: So, I mean, it all starts with the design. There are official show house sponsors so like we were, we already knew we were going to be working with the Shade Store on our window treatments. We knew we were going to be working with Benjamin Moore on pain. So that was already set up, but you know, we just kind of took the matrix of our design and laid it over what the sponsors offer. And that's how we started to source the actual pieces that were going to be into our, in our space. You know, if there were easy alternates for like our forced choice fabric from somebody was a show house sponsor, went that route because they were offering to give 20 yards. So that's how we built the core of our design. And then from there we looked at like, well, what's leftover? What do we need to source? What is an absolute must have? And we just started going down the list and making our asks. And in many cases, our vendors and the people we've been working with over the past 10 years were so excited that we did ask and were willing to either donate the goods outright or give us a big discount or loan something to us. So there's a lot of that too. And so if you're really strategic about it, you can get most of the goods in your room covered in some way. The labor is really the thing that really can drive the costs up. The product has been easier to place. As far as deliverables go, what we've been offering is we will have a source list in our room of our partners. So their name will be there, their name will be in the Kips Bay Dallas Journal of sources. They'll be dedicated on our website. So we'll have a source list there. We will tag and include them in social media. And then I think the biggest gift of all is we hired our own photographer to do imagery for our space. And we have paid that photographer for the copyright to be able to give our vendors and people who have made major donations to our space the right and the license to use those images for their own marketing. And that's huge. A Casey: Can I ask who's shooting? A Cox: Stephen Carlish. Yeah, we're so excited. And he has done Kips Bay Dallas, probably I think every year that it has been running, which I think this is the sixth year. So he knows the drill. He knows the timeline and we're just, you know, excited to have gotten a spot on his docket. A Casey: So you guys you install next week but then it goes live on the 7th. Between install to like you need your photos do you need your photos before it goes live or? A Cox: So the way it works, and this goes back to, feel like I only partially answered your question about the process because it's a really long one. And like, we're still sort of in the middle of the design because our installs next week, but there's like the start and then there's a lot of time in the middle where you're doing stuff. There is a designer check-in, which is incredibly intimidating with the design director of, you know, all of Kips Bay where she's like, what's your plan to finish this room? Because if it's not finished, we'll seal it off and no one will see it. So it is like pretty intense. So we had that last week. We have a plan to finish. They will assign you an installation window so you have four hours to get everything in all your big pieces in. We've been doing construction this whole time. So like our built ins are in our tile is in our paint is in our lighting. But none of our furniture or rugs. So each designer gets a sign. Cause you can imagine like 20, 26 designers all delivering willy nilly's chaos. So we install and then on the morning of October 30th, you have to be completely done with your space. And it's like a pencils down test over moment. They walk around, they make sure it's good to go. And then you kind of have to like high tail it out of there. And that's when the sponsor photography comes in. So from October 31st through the 2nd or 3rd, no designers are supposed to be there. That's when Kip's Bay does their own official photography. That's when like the house sponsors do their own photography. People come, there's, you know, so there's a lot kind of going on behind the scenes. And then you can come in and bring your own photographer on November 4th. So it's like five days later, I guess. Style, that's when you get your imagery then you get out of there. And then between the fourth and the seventh, there's like a press walkthrough day. There's opening party, and then the public opening is on the seventh. So between the shoot and opening day, our photographer is going to edit and turn over to us like two images so that we can quickly print cards and things like all this other marketing collateral that is also a really big part of this endeavor. That people can take. And like, I was like, okay, so how many should we get? You know, a thousand. Like that seems like, it's like, you need like 8,000 cards. Like Pete, there are going to be so many people coming into this room and taking, you know, the picture, whatever you're going to give them. So it's like, that's a whole other expense. Yeah. So it's, it's just the whirlwind. A Casey: Okay, okay, okay. More questions. Okay, so there is no way around it. This is an incredible investment of resources, not just financial, but also of your time. And when you described how your studio is run. I didn't quite see where Kips Bay fit into that. Did you design all of Kips Bay personally or did you bring in your two senior designers to help with it? Like how did that workload work and how do you fit Kips Bay into your regular workload? A Cox: It is, you know, this year was right for us for so many reasons. One, I think across our industry, things have been slower and we don't have those eight projects that I was talking about that our sweet spot is. We've got great projects and were busy, but we had some bandwidth. And so I was able to offload really, it really has been a true team collaboration. I came up, we, we, operated as if this was a real project. So I came up with the initial concept and I kinda like came up with two schemes and I've been giving my team the option to weigh in all along the way. And so everybody voted for scheme B. So we went with scheme B. And we've been building our design around that. And we're just using our creative process. We've had check-ins, we have floor plans. We have technical drawings, we did a construction round and then we did a furnishings round. So we're just following our process and it's working. So I'm able to, because of the crunch of time, the two senior designers are sharing what their typical role would be on our project. I set the direction. I like, I like this fabric, this design of this sofa. Like I need a side table option. I need a mirror option. And then they're just bringing all this stuff to me. And so we're able to make decisions as a team. And everybody's pulling their weight. Everybody's weighing in. I mean, just this morning I sent out a text like, please vote for the stain color because we have to stain in our cabinets like today to make room for bringing in all our stuff on Tuesday. So, yeah, it's been really fun and I'm really proud of how we've tackled this creatively as a team. A Casey: So when the show house opens, there's tons of media attention. And this is like the most covered show house in the country, if not the world. A Cox: Yeah, mean at least, yeah, one of the three kids gets a lot of attention. A Casey: How do you and your team and your publicist, how are you guys thinking about this from a PR standpoint of like, how are we going to maximize this? What are some things that you're besides 8,000 cards? What, how do you envision kind of like rolling this out on social? How do you, how do you envision the storytelling of this? A Cox: You know, I wish I had a better plan in place. There's still time, but yeah, four days. What's really nice about being part of the Kips Bay machine is that there is press included. There's a lot of structure set up for you. They do not want you to fail. They want you to feel like your investment has been worth it. They want everyone to see the work. They want everyone to see the show house. So there's a lot built in and they have a whole PR team working with them where they require you to submit a room description, submit a room title, find someone to do a rendering of your space. They will photograph, they will share. And there's a media partner, which I think is Gallery Magazine. And so your work will be published in that magazine. So there's a lot that's already built in. What we're doing personally is just revamping our website, we're excited to use these images. The work for me is the design. Like the design is the tool. The design is the thing that we're going to be able to share. Like that is, that's the real investment in marketing is doing something that I can look to to say, this is our signature. This is what we're capable of. This is what we haven't been able to do in the past because we've been limited by clientele or finances or a space or architecture, whatever it is. So we're excited to just share those images. Photography is of course our biggest personal investment, photography and styling. And we're going to take those images and do a lot with them across our channels of website, social media, you know, all of that stuff. A Casey: Do you feel like, again, this hasn't even launched, you haven't installed yet, but do you feel like even since just getting your name on the roster that editors and brands are looking at you differently? A Cox: I definitely think so. I think that Kip's Bay holds a prestige, at least it does personally for me. I look at anybody who has done it with great respect and admiration and it puts them on a different level. And now that I'm in it, I see why, because it requires an extreme amount of confidence. It requires a lot of hard work, a lot of negotiation and collaboration, a lot of heads down time, working quickly, being clear, all those things. And so if you're able to pull it off, it's a really big achievement. And I think the people that are writing about this, that are producing media, editors, everybody, they know what it takes to do a room successfully. And so I think there is this amount of recognition that comes along with being in one of the Kip's Bay classes because it just, it says to the world, like, I'm capable. I'm not going anywhere. Like go ahead and invest in me. You know, I'm here to stay. I'm here to say something with my work. And so I think that's the beauty of what Kip's Bay really provides. Like you said, it's a coming out party. It's like, I'm old enough. I'm wise enough. I'm ready. So bring it, bring it on. Yeah. And yeah, I think it has been really fun. Like when I tell people that I'm doing it, they know what it is. And editors for sure know that. And, you know, start getting invited to stuff you didn't even know was out there. So in that respect, it's been really fun and definitely I've noticed a shift. A Casey: And we'll just get ready. You buckle up because you haven't even launched yet. A show house is such a feather in the cap. What advice do you have to someone who's considering whether it's like pro show house or like proceed with caution? Like what? What would you say are kind of like the three big things for someone to consider before saying yes? A Cox: Well, my experience has been extremely positive. So I'm pro show house. I think it has to make sense for what you want to do with your business. Is the show house you're thinking about participating in local to you? Does it make sense for where you want to have more work? Is it going to get you press that you want? You know, Kips Bay I think can apply nationally. But for me, like the fact that it's in Dallas, a place that I want more business made complete sense. It was a huge smart investment for me. I mean, I hope. But I would say one, make sure it makes sense for your growth plan and where you want to go. Two, if you decide, yeah, I want to do it. Plan on it costing double and taking double the amount of time that you think it's going to. And make sure that you have those resources in place to be able to complete it to the level of whatever you think is acceptable because otherwise it's going to be extremely stressful and disappointing. A Casey: And also not just the time that it takes for that, but how that's going to affect your client projects as well. So you're not leaving clients hanging in order to get show house done. A Cox: Yeah. And now I get, I mean, I get why there's not a whole lot of upstarts jumping into the, especially the Kips Bay pool. It takes, it takes a lot to produce. It takes relationships and partnerships and just time kind of understanding the way things work, but also like savings and a team. I would say my number one piece of advice is don't do it alone. If you are still a business, or a designer that's operating independently, I think it would be extremely difficult to do this by yourself. There are people that have done it and have done it successfully and well, but for me, I couldn't have done it. A Casey: What do you feel like you've learned about your studio through this process? A Cox: Oh gosh. I don't know if this is a popular answer, but it doesn't matter. It's authentic to me. I feel the most confident I've felt as a designer since I graduated because I went into this with quite frankly, like a good amount of imposter syndrome and fear and like, can I really pull this off? Can I make it work financially? Is my team going to enjoy this? Are they going to step up and like participate? Is this going to like annoy? You know, it just, I was, there were a lot of unknowns and I was just prepared to make asks and have people say no and just it to like crumble into not something that I was proud of. And let's just say I did not have an abundance mindset going into it. And now that we're like four days away from installing, I'm just like so impressed with my team and with what I've built and that we have this like machine that can produce something like this that not only is something I'm proud of, but that feels like a real artistic expression and a real partnership and a collaboration and celebrates craft and history and color and all these things that we care about and it didn't destroy us. Like it has only made us stronger. And I don't think you get very many chances in a career to step back and take stock of everything that you've done to get here. And this has really provided us with that opportunity to me, especially to look back and say like, oh my God, from the girl who was like drawing floor plans in her bedroom, which I know is so cliche, everyone says that, this becomes a designer to like getting six coffees, six coffee runs on my first day at Amanda Nisbet Design to like, you know, moving to, it's just like, it's crazy that I'm here. And so I'm just really proud of myself and of my team. And I'm just excited that like, I'm in this industry and I'm in this business and this career path that really suits me and really utilizes my gifts and I'm really happy doing it. And I'm just excited that other people see value in it. Yeah, so I don't know. Yeah, it's just been an extremely validating experience. And I think it was like you said, it's a feather in your cap, but it's also just like this official permission to say, I'm serious about this. I'm here. I have something to say, and I'm going to say it loudly and with confidence. And so like, let's go. A Casey: Well, you should be so. It is a huge deal. I'm excited to see it. OK, before we wrap up, last question I ask everybody. Aside from Kips Bay Showhouse what what else is on the horizon for you? Like, what do you see coming next? If you have something in the pipeline that's exciting that you can share with us, please share. But if you know, now that you've gotten through this huge milestone, what's next? A Cox: More of the same, with more authority, I guess. But no, seriously, we are very excited about some of our current work. We have kicked off a couple of projects that are both historic renovations. Like I said at the beginning, I really prioritize working with architect design homes and partnering with architects in homes of historical significance. And so this is just like really exciting for us to be working on some of these homes that are historic in nature, are getting a great renovation and they're extremely different in styles. And I think that's what's so fun about what our firm does specifically is because we focus on architecturally significant homes, that doesn't mean we're only doing modern design or, you know, traditional castles or what it's like it's everything in between it just needs to be good architecture and that just gives me a chance to try out all the different facets of my creative design interests and so we're working on a project in West Texas with really renowned Architects that's really exciting and then we're working on one here in our hometown of Austin over in Clarksville with a repeat client and with rooms like the ballroom and the parlor, you know it's gonna be a big one. So we're so excited about all the. A Casey: I didn't even know houses in Clarksville were capable of having ball room and parlors. A Cox: They're not, we just call it that. So yeah, we're just excited to keep working with clients that appreciate what we do. A Casey: Amazing. This has been so great. Thank you so much. I still cannot believe you're installing in four days and you are still sitting here in my family room having this conversation. A Cox: We are just thrilled to be here. I'm so honored that you asked me to come speak to this. And I'm so excited to be part of this first visual podcast. I think just keep it up. People love hearing from you and it's just such a nice place to go in this digital world to talk about our little niche industry. So thank you for having me. A Casey: Well, congratulations on Kips Bay. Everybody go see the show. A Casey: For more in-depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples, and more, don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes or at patreon.com /theInteriorCollective. A Casey: Thank you so, so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. A big, huge thank you to our production team at IDCO Studio and Kwin Made. Your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible. And the biggest thank you to you, our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible. Until next time, I'm Anastasia Casey and this is The Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living. A Casey: Are you running your design firm with a patchwork of tools? Materio brings it all into one intuitive system, finally. Try it free at getmaterio.com and get 50 % off your first month as an interior collective listener. That's G-E-T-M-A-T-E-R-I-O.com.