[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: Hey, welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey. Today I'm so excited to welcome Jason Saft, the mastermind behind Stage to Sell Home, a company that has transformed over 3 billion in luxury homes since its official founding in 2016. But Jason's been staging as a passion project since 2005. With an impressive background of more than 20 years in real estate sales and staging, Jason brings a unique perspective on what it means to craft interiors that are both aspirational and functional. Known for his contemporary curatorial style and unwavering commitment to producing results, Jason has earned accolades for his work, including features in the Wall Street Journal, Architectural Digest, and more. And I just have to say, as a home stager, that is so impressive. For Jason, great design isn't a straight line. It's about balancing artistry and intent, creating spaces that captivate buyers and maximize value. Because I truly do believe that there is no single way to run a successful design business, I'm thrilled to chat with Jason today about how he forged his own path in luxury staging. Standing out both as a respective business owner and creative visionary. Jason's approach is anything but conventional, and his 98% success rate really speaks for itself. Today we're diving into Jason's methods for making luxury staging stand out, exploring everything from his business model and inventory curation to timelessness and decisions behind staging versus full service design. And we're especially excited to catch up because not only is Jason an IDCO Studio client, he's also a past attendee of our own Design Camp, so much so that he sent his team the very next session. Join us as we explore how Jason combines expertise, intentionality and market knowledge to elevate homes and help buyers envision their dream lives.
[00:02:02] Speaker C: We are so excited to invite you to dive deeper into the Interior Collective. Podcast episodes now on Patreon unlock access to in depth analysis, helpful downloads and worksheets created with each podcast episode. Subscribers gain behind the scenes access to additional resources like examples and screenshots of guest spreadsheets, construction documents, documents, and so much more. Your subscription also gets you immediate access to our private community of interior designers and our team of industry experts ready to answer your questions? Subscribe
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[00:02:43] Speaker B: Hey Jason and welcome to the show. I'm so thrilled to have you here. It's just gonna be the most fun episode ever.
[00:02:50] Speaker A: I'm very, very excited to Be here and to see you and to chat.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: Thank you so much for squeezing us in. I know that you are traveling right now doing fabulous things in Charleston, and you just moved into a completely new space. So I appreciate your time immensely and can't wait to dig into your brilliant business model and designed mind.
[00:03:12] Speaker A: All right, I'm ready for it. Bring it on.
[00:03:14] Speaker B: Okay, so this episode's unique because you have a different type of business model in the luxury home staging world. But I say that loosely because I think you are such a brilliant designer, and I think when people hear home staging, they have, like, a very specific vision of what that looks like, and you're just galaxies and light years away from that. I love everything you do.
So for those who aren't familiar with you, a, get familiar. And B, can you go ahead and tell us about your background before stage to sell? What were you doing? What got you to this point and where you're at? Or really, you were just telling me that it started as a hobby and then became an actual business. What was the journey up until then?
[00:04:01] Speaker A: Yeah, so, I mean, I think, you know, the big thing is I always wanted to design ever since I was a little kid. And that is not the kind of thing, a career path that you said, you know, to your mother back in the 80s that. The 1980s, not the 1880s. Just to be clear on age here, I'm old, but not that old. You know, it just was not something that was said. And so I squash it. And what's really interesting is I. Through my childhood, and I. I have the same furniture in my bed, in my bedroom than the house I grew up in. Still there today. I. And I checked this recently because I thought maybe I made it up. I cut a hole in the box spring of my mattress, and I used to hide my mother's design magazines in there, like, Better Homes and Gardens and a little bit later on, like, Martha Stewart Living. And so I would, late at night, like, read my mom's design magazines. And it's funny because, like, my friends were hiding their dad's Playboys in their. And I was hiding, like, you know, veranda. But that sort of, like, got squashed, and I went into a different career path. And then in. I was in PR, and in 2003, the apartment I was living in became infested with rats, and I. I lost my home. And I was trying to apartment hunt. And this was before there were no iPhones. There was no Zillow. You know, this was a whole other world. And it was the Most difficult experience I'd ever had. And I was having lunch with a friend of mine who was a real estate agent, and he said, you know, like, all the things you do, I've. I've seen you help other friends with the home. I would think you would be in real estate. And so I, I thought about it and I was like, wow, that's a really great idea. And I always love design. And so I got my license. It was one of those things, like, I was like, you know what? All of this is happening for a reason. I'm just going to go do it. And so very early on in my real estate career, I was brought into a project that could not rent. And I worked with this developer, and it. The amount of time it takes to get the permits filed and all these things, it was so long and expensive. I said, you know, can I just do some of these DIY tricks I do at home? And the apartment ended up renting for more money than the fully renovated version on another floor. And so that. That apartment turned into that building, which turned into six buildings, which turned into several other portfolios. And so I just kept doing it. And so I would. With every project, I would ask for a little bit more. And so I eventually said, like, well, can we buy some furniture to create, like, a model apartment? We'll photograph it, we'll have better imagery. Because in that specific space in that time period, things didn't look good. They weren't presented well. And now we're starting to get into the time of, like, everything going online, right? And so presentation became really key. And I was very much aware of it. And so I just started doing it very small. And then as my career grew and I got into sales, I started focusing on apartments that had not sold. And, you know, you. I would go through the listings and you could see they were. It was all visual. And I would start to meet with people. And I created this. This pitch deck called Stage to sell home. And it was just tip sheets and all the things that you can do on your own to fix up your home, to get it ready for sale. And eventually what it. What it was meant to do. And it was interesting. People would say, like, why are you sharing your secrets? And I was like, these aren't really secrets, right? Like, I'm just. I'm pulling information that you could find anywhere else. The thing is, it's work. And that's one thing I've learned in my career is not everyone is prepared to do the work. And so the people that are prepared to do the work, will be successful. And so I used to put all of this information in front of them, and I would say, if you do all of this, you should be able to sell. And people would be completely overwhelmed with it. And the. The other alternative is, or you can hire me. And so as time went on, I just started growing it, and it was a hobby, and I was. I was losing money doing it, but I was just. I was so happy to be able to design these homes or redesign these homes or just be creative in a way that I never had before. And then in 2013, I was one of the original employees of Urban Compass, which is today Compass. And, you know, I started doing it a little bit more there, and then all of these really talented agents started coming and they were seeing my work and asking me to do it in their properties. And so that's when all of a sudden, in about 2016, I started getting requests to do it for other people. And I incorporated, and it was still very much a hobby. And then after Compass went public and the pandemic happened, I. I had this time to think, which I've never, I've never not worked, and I never had the time to think about, like, what is it that fulfills me, that makes me happy? And in the pandemic, I was working on a few of my last sales, and I was working on two properties. And I think that's what really got me through that time. As I had these huge houses to work on, I would ride my bike up there. You know, Manhattan was really shut down, and I was. I'd put on music and I would just start going with what. Only with what I had. That was it. And I was like, this is what I want to do. And I've been fighting it for so long. And so I eventually just, you know, left brokerage and focused on STSL home.
[00:09:20] Speaker B: So in all those years where you were doing this as, like a passion project, and you mentioned you're like, I was losing money, but I just loved it. What else were you doing to financially sustain yourself, or was there not financial sustainability?
[00:09:36] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I was a real estate agent, and so I, I had money coming in, I had commissions. But, you know, I sort of looked at every. A lot of times someone would say to me, fine, you can do this, but I'm not going to pay for it. And so I was like, all right, but this is my opportunity, and if I can fix this up, I have a commission at the end of it, right? So again, I, I, While I Lost money. I also looked at it sort of logically, like all the things that I'm purchasing, these are all tax write offs, right? So, and then I started slowly building up my inventory. And then, you know, I get asked this a lot from other stages starting their business the way I really started very early on with inventory. Because to have a staging business you have to have inventory, right? Like that's the. So I, with some of the earlier projects that were full apartments, I would get a couple of proposals. We, I was able to understand like an average cost in New York City, you know, about 10 years ago was, let's say $10,000 to stage a one bedroom apartment. So I would tell my seller, here's the proposal for 10,000, or if you want to spend 5,000, I'll do all the legwork, I will take care of everything, I will get it all done, but I'll just own the furniture at the end. And since everyone was moving and most of the moves were not from Manhattan to somewhere else in Manhattan, these are all people looking mostly going cross country. They were thrilled because they didn't want to think about what am I going to have to do with this furniture? So I'm going to spend half the cost. You're going to project, manage it, take care of everything. And by this point, when I was, when I was sort of striking these deals, I already had a rudimentary portfolio of before and after as metrics, track records. Like all the things that stage to sell home is known for today was being done almost 20 years ago. Like I was always tracking the metrics, I was always taking the before and after pictures. I figured that out very early on that unless you can show someone, well, it's one thing to tell someone, it's quite another to show someone with information that if they were then to go look it up, they would get those same numbers.
[00:11:42] Speaker B: So now that you have been that you've left real estate and you're just focusing on staging, do you have, do you ever flirt with the idea of just doing design or like, is staging. Like staging's it. That's where it's at.
[00:11:58] Speaker A: I do, it's. I do and I don't. So what's really interesting and what I'm trying to figure out as the company grows, what's become very interesting is for a lot of the sellers and the buyers of these apartments, seeing it Stage is their first experience with seeing a home that they've either lived in and know intimately, are about to buy and live in, seeing it designed and So I get a lot of requests from. For us to design the property after, or the seller who didn't have a designer now wants their home designed. But the. The problem is the pace in which we move. Like some of these.
I can often do a house in one day with every minute, little detail now to then shift to design, where you may spend three months talking about. It's very challenging. And so for me, designing to run the business, grow the business, bring in the clients, everything else, I don't necessarily have the time to stop and spend three months talking about, like, how do you feel about this? What is this? And that was. You know, at design camp, that was a huge thing. Everyone was like, I don't understand. Like, so you just do it. And that's. People are paying me to handle this because they want an expert to just do it. They don't want to be involved. And so what I hope will happen over time, because I'm often referring these people out to the designers that I'm friends with whose work I love that I know, but what I'm noticing is they don't necessarily want, like, a full design, everything fabricated and custom, and they just. They want really nice stuff. And part of it is in Manhattan. This recently happened where I did a townhouse that was $23 million, and almost everyone who came to see it was using it as a piet a terre. Right. Like, it's just. And so what was really interesting is not only did the buyers reach out to us, but I would say we got about a dozen inquiries from people who came to the house, bought something else, but loved, like, the details and the collected nature of this West Village townhouse and thought it was so different from everything else they'd seen, which was just very generic staging, that they were coming to us. And every time I would partner them with a design, they didn't want to go through that process. They were like, I just want to come in, and it looks like this. And so that is something. As time goes on, I'm going to try and figure out or bringing in a designer, because it. We can't have the staging team work on design and do both. It just doesn't work, and it's not in the best interest of the clients.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: I have to tell you, Jason, this morning, Quinn and I were laying in bed, and he was like, oh, who are you interviewing today? And I was like, oh, it's Jason. He's like, that's gonna be fabulous. Say hi to Jason for me. Love him. And I was like, I'm so excited to talk to him. Cause I just think his work is so freaking cool. And I've already actually begged him next time he's down at Round Top to just come into our house before we go to Round Top, see what we're working with and then go shopping for me. Because your ability to make a very traditional space that evokes a very traditional old money vibe feel cool and funky is so difficult to attain. And I can look at weird, cool, quirky things and be like, that's so cool. But I have no idea how it actually goes in.
[00:15:29] Speaker A: I've seen the pictures of your house. I think you're, you're, you're, you're selling yourself short.
[00:15:34] Speaker B: Well, you could take it to the next level. So I'm going to continue to pressure you to build this business model, even if I am the only guinea pig that it ever gets to see it. But I'm curious, do you, do people ever ask to buy it furnished?
[00:15:47] Speaker A: All the time.
[00:15:48] Speaker B: Do you do that a lot?
[00:15:50] Speaker A: Yes. And we'll be, we'll continue to do more of that as time goes on. Early on I wasn't able to and in the pandemic I wasn't able to because it was so hard to get inventory. And then the other part of it, truthfully as, and this was a big reason why I came to design camp. And I've been doing other things and just learning more about the industry since I'm all completely self taught and I didn't start as a designer and I didn't go to school for it or wasn't in the industry in the early phases, I wasn't buying wholesale, I was buying retail. And so now as I'm buying wholesale, it's getting easier because of the margins and because of access to inventory. And so it's really like for me, it's so fun because I can sit back and watch the evolution of each part of it grow and learn more. And that's why, you know, I'm, I'm always telling people like, it's, you're at this one place in your business, but unless you're learning and listening and I mean that's, I found everything through your podcast, right? Like, and that's, you have to get involved in those things to learn what else is out there within the industry and that's how you can scale your business.
[00:16:55] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I'm just curious and I know I'm jumping around. I'm probably supposed to cover this later. You're buying wholesale, but I know you incorporate Tons of amazing vintage as well. Can you just tell us how you handle your markup? Like, when someone does want to buy everything furnished, do you just make up a really big number or. Sometimes.
[00:17:14] Speaker A: You know, it's funny, I remember Caitlin Fleming talking about that at design camp, and she was like, it's just a universal across the board. I was like, really? Like, even the most special, like, how did you find? I was like, I don't know about that. So a lot of the real specialty vintage I have not sold, and I've been holding onto it because, you know, this is something interesting. As I'm, you know, starting to go to more of the fairs and markets and really learn and try to understand the business. I also truly believe that a designer can add value to an object. And so part of retaining the vintage has been one. I love it, and I really like, I have a tough time letting go of it. The other part of it, though, is the way that we're photographing it and showcasing it and sort of building it into this portfolio and attracting more and more people through social. I do believe that the value of it can increase. And by doing that, like, I'll. I'll sell some of it at a certain point. But I do, you know, my business, the reason people hire me is to generate a maximum return on investment. And so my feeling with a lot of the vintage is save it, hold on to it. Like, milk it for everything it's worth and then start to part with it once you can really create something special. And so part of. With the new space is like, I've carved out a tiny little area to start to create just more vignettes, photograph it, to eventually make the Instagram shoppable. Because, you know, one thing that I never anticipated out of all of this was this. This audience through Instagram. Like, I. I just. In the very early days, it was like, I'm a home staging, you know, business in New York City, and that's it. And, you know, the stage to sell home Instagram, it. It's brought this whole other audience and group of people that I never really anticipated. And, you know, one of the things I hear a lot and I. It's. It's me on there. Like there. There's no other person. No one has the password. People want to sort of experience these spaces in different ways, and that's. I'm trying to figure out, how can we sort of make it feel as if someone's in a space or a part of it, and they ask all the time, like, where are you sourcing this? How did you find that? Where is it? And so that's what I'm trying to figure out now.
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[00:21:03] Speaker B: I was just talking to Chloe from Boxwood yesterday for an episode this season and she just has really mastered like having this lifestyle brand and a high end design studio and how she's grown this community of people who are probably never going to hire her. Like that's not necessarily who they are and just has been working on how do I serve them. So yes, please start putting stuff for sale on Instagram because, because I'll just buy it every time. I'll turn on alerts and I'll just be like bye bye bye.
[00:21:34] Speaker A: I always joke that like my business is really just an excuse for my, my shopping addiction.
[00:21:40] Speaker B: You're hoarding?
[00:21:40] Speaker A: Yeah, 100% but as elegant Hoarding.
[00:21:43] Speaker B: Elegant hoarding it. It is quite elegant.
[00:21:46] Speaker A: In the new warehouse I, I took like two days. I have a ton of like we have our accessories and our stuff and then we have a separate category of like special accessories that only go into certain projects and projects that we're photographing and get used for other things. And like I, I unpacked the whole thing. I stayed late one night until like 10:30 just to get it all up on the shelves. But I was looking around, I was like, oh, my God, I'm. I'm a hoarder.
[00:22:09] Speaker B: It's official.
[00:22:09] Speaker A: But an elegant.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: An elegant hoarder self realization is the first step. So, okay, let's talk technical stuff. Can you walk us through your company structure? How many people are on your team these days? Like, what does it take to do this? And are they employees? Are they contractors? And really just kind of break down who you not. I don't need names. I mean, give me names if you will, but, like, what the key roles are that you're. Like, this could not exist if it wasn't for this person, this person, this person doing these roles.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I have an amazing team, and we're. We're really. It's really interesting because when you. You look at the scale of our projects and the numbers and the returns and the pace that we move, a lot of people think, like, oh, I have 20 employees. Like, it's just. It's nine of us. Walker, my chief of staff, you probably know, he makes all the backend machinations happen. Like, if it wasn't for him, I would not be on the Zoom right now.
And we have Ken helping us out as well on a lot of the administrative stuff. And then on the design side, my right hand is Ty, and then Megan, and running the warehouse is Nara and Tyler, and then we just have some support staff. So it's a very nimble team. And I think, you know, one of the things I really, that. That hooked me in design camp, where I felt like this just this commonality is like, you guys have a love of systems and processes and, like, templates, and if you do something two or three times, like, you have to create a system process and a template for it. And so I think my. My first job was at 14 at McDonald's, and that's where I learned that. And while the work is not templated, all of the backend stuff is. And I think that's what allows a small team to move so nimbly and so efficiently. Because I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. Every single time, like, I, you know, someone reaches out with a question, I drop down into my templates in my email and I get through it, and I move on to the next and the same thing sort of with the design. You know, again, we're not fabricating anything. We're not filing a permit. We're not moving a wall. And once you've trained your team to understand, like, again, let's Just start a baseline two bedroom apartment. In the earlier versions, I'd created an Excel document. Now we have a whole inventory system and a more efficient process. But at the end of the day, we're pretty much always putting in the same things to every space. And so when you take that approach with anything, you start to shift people's brains to understand, okay, this may be a different day, a different property, slightly different, but at the core I'm doing the same thing. So I'm going to like focus on. And you're just able to move much faster.
[00:24:50] Speaker B: Yeah, well, shit, now I'm really going to have to figure out a way to hire you from all of those sweet product and design camp plugs. Thank you for your kind words, but great.
[00:25:00] Speaker A: I mean, like, I mean, I even sent Walker, my chief of staff, the next year because I was like, I'm not going to implement some of these things. I'm always on the go. And I think that's something really important is, you know, for a business owner to, to treat your business as a business and to bring in your employees and to have them understand all of these things and operate within that mindset.
[00:25:23] Speaker B: So I'd love to dig into the process a little bit because I bet people are listening and someone out there is like, damn. To not have an actual client, to not have, like to get to design and just be creative in all of these different spaces. This sounds awesome. Let's kind of start at the begin. Is it usually an agent or a homeowner that is seeking your services?
[00:25:46] Speaker A: So our client is always the homeowner. They are. 90% of the time. They are the one paying the bill. However, I would say about 80% of how we're bringing in that project is through the real estate agent.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: So even when you're Talking about these $20 million penthouses, the agents who are making those commissions are still like, here's the bill for getting it staged. Yeah, maybe we should all get into real estate.
[00:26:10] Speaker A: It's not, honestly, it's not as sexy. Trust me. I was doing it for 20 years.
It's not like on Million Dollar Listing.
[00:26:17] Speaker B: Can you walk us through the process of creating a staging proposal from that, like, first moment when you either receive, receive the floor plan or you do the walkthrough, whatever that first step is. I know you just mentioned you guys have a really nice inventory system. So, like, when the project comes in, what does it look like? Do you just like bring all of your stuff over or do you have everything planned out and then you're just moving in what primarily we'll use. I'm sure there's stuff you edit and take out.
[00:26:46] Speaker A: Yeah, so great question. And so I, I sort of to like the earlier part of this question, I, I go back to my real estate career. So we, I would say on average we get about five to ten inquiries a day. And we have a sort of prioritization system that in our CRM, you know, we have our five star clients, our four star clients, and our three stars are people who inquire a lot we maybe haven't worked with, aren't necessarily major producers. And then we have our general inquiries. And so we have a template that like the minute that email comes in, a template goes back asking for information. Because what ends up happening is once, once you do have a track record and once you do have a business, you start getting more inquiries than projects that you can handle. And the thing is, not everyone is qualified. Right. And like the, one of the things I learned in real estate brokerage from running around Manhattan all day every day was unless you ask a few key questions, you may be wasting your time on people who are not qualified, ready to go. And so we immediately really weed those out, refer them to someone else. We have an opening price point and so generating the proposal, again, very simple. We have a template. We know our costs for a standard one bedroom project and so we're able to look at that really quickly, eyeball it from floor plan listing history, photos, sale price, and give them a very quick proposal with hard costs. And you know, one of the things that I've had to explain to people, one of the only questions that ever comes up because people are used to dealing with contractors for design or something else, is costs escalating after they've signed for it with us. We're not opening up the walls, there's no surgery. So our costs are our costs. And we explain the only way this number will change is if you ask for additional things. And that's a huge comfort factor for a lot of people to understand. Here it is. It's not going to change unless you ask for more. But so our, our proposal process is pretty tight. But you know, I think something really important for anyone listening as you're building your business is you do have to create a system to sort of weed out leads that are not going to generate business. And one of the things I teach now, I have someone helping me with inbound inquiries because it was always just me. We never want to turn business down. We never want to say no. We never but we do need to establish the fact that like I don't walk every home just because someone at like hey, can you come and look at this and give us a proposal? Like we've created a system that we know how to do the costs and we always want to make ourselves available and let them know this may not be the right fit for us based on these criteria. But here are the type of projects we handle. Here are opening costs. Let's find our like the right project together.
[00:29:37] Speaker B: Can you share with us packages? For instance, do you have someone. I mean I can't believe. Congrats. That you're getting five to ten inquiries a day. That's amazing. But are there instances when you have a one bedroom apartment? It is agent that you've worked with before, you love working with them. And are you proposing here is X number to do furnishings and art and then here's X number to do wool. Come in. I think we need to do some paint. I think we need, let's swap out some fixtures plus furnishings, art, decor. So there's like kind of tiers as to what level or are you always delivering at that higher caliber.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: So it's pretty much I. The proposals are based on the resale cost of the apartment. So in Manhattan there are, there are two bedrooms that might cost 1,7 million and there are ones that cost 5 million. And so the structures, the pricing are, are different because the end user is different, their expectations are different, the inventory that we're using is different. But pretty much with every project we have additional services. Painting, deep clean like deep professional, post vacate or post mortem construction, cleaning, lighting, hardware. And again we're trying to source, we've created a range so that we can put that on every proposal. So your cost to stage, you know, have everything photo ready, all the details with no, I don't do anything that looks like. I often say like this isn't a make your own sandwich station. Because sometimes people will say like well can we leave off this and can we leave off that and you know, I explained to people, listen, at the end of the day this is an investment and we're trying to create a total, you know, package here. And so if you say can I save $300 and leave off the hallway like the common spaces in a $10 million project, it's not really going to save you anything and it's not really worth it. And that type of person, like you don't want the experience to stop in that 20 foot gallery hallway that feels off and like they Forgot something. Because it's not a large savings. Where we will on occasion is sometimes in very large projects where There might be 10 bedrooms we can leave off a floor. Because at that point they've got it and they understand it. But I try and make it that we're trying to sell, we're trying to enhance the total value of this home. And sometimes by trying to save a little bit of money, you're losing more on the return.
[00:32:09] Speaker B: Yeah. In that situation for my future 10 bedroom apartment and you're leaving off a floor, does that mean that that floor just remains totally empty? Got it. Okay, thanks for clarifying. Okay, so do you have a version of a design discovery day? Like, is an agent collaborating with you? Are you getting any sort of like historical context? I remember that one fabulous project you did and there was a yellow dressing room that you were doing and you told a lot of story.
[00:32:39] Speaker A: Princess's apartment.
[00:32:40] Speaker B: Yeah. And you really on Instagram had told the story of like how it inspired the room.
[00:32:45] Speaker A: So even that, like, I didn't want to leave. I was like, I was a little upset. It sold so quickly and I was like, I don't get to go back.
[00:32:54] Speaker B: So I'm just curious how involved are you with either the, the sellers or the agent to like incorporate that or is it a pretty unique property that would involve that level of like historical context and incorporating who has been in that space? And usually you just get to go in and make the space look.
[00:33:12] Speaker A: Yeah. So that project in particular was so special and so unique. So it was one of the members of the Romanov family and his wife, who is a princess from Palermo, who bought this in architect's duplex apartment in 1972. The husband passed away about 20 years ago and Mimi passed away about a year ago. And I, in, in my career I'd never been in something so. So, I mean, it looks like, you know, a piazza in, in Manhattan right off Central Park. And so we. What was really nice that rarely ever happens is we had a bit of time on this project. It was, we had started the discussion in the winter. They had signed on. An estate company needed to come and clear out and take out a lot of the Russian and Italian artifacts. And we had about four months before it was going to come on market, which never happens. And so I, anytime I had an hour to spend, I went up there and spent it. And you know, there were a lot of things left behind in the apartment. The estate companies took out the sort of rare artifacts that cannot necessarily be seen by the public. Because in sort of, like, auctioning off Russian, you know, antiquities, they don't want any sort of. They don't want any spotlight on it. And so I had this time in their home, and I was going through photographs and letters, and she was a jewelry designer. And so that room that you're speaking of, you know, I. There were hundreds of pieces of this. Of her jewelry and all these jewel tones. And so when I was trying to think of, like, different ways to concept it out, like, I came back to Mimi's jewelry, and so I did the pharaoh and ball, the India yellow, and everything in the room was pulled from the jewels and the jewelry, and she had all of these jewelry books, and they were all part of the room. And so that was fun for me, because I don't. We don't always have a backstory, and we don't always have the luxury of time. You know, most. In most scenarios, it's like the paperwork is signed, payment is received, and then, like, two weeks later, we're in and we're out on average within a day.
So I try to. There's a. One of the things that I'm known for is these estate projects and these older homes, often ones that people have died in. And I'm. I'm used to dealing with the executor of the estate, and it can be a very long process, and, you know, very fortunate that in Manhattan, there's a lot of people who own these stunning older homes who've had these fascinating lives that are often still filled with a lot of the things that they've collected and art. And so I've created this way in those specifically to sort of play with some of the things that are in there, bring in a lot of the modern pieces, and sort of tie it all together in, like, a visual narrative. And the estate is usually thrilled with it because there's often a few surviving family members who then get to see the home in this way. And a lot of them know it from holidays and family celebrations. And so it's become this really nice sort of discovery process for me, of. Of taking these things of people's lives, and a lot of them are often discarded. Like, a lot of it. Like, people have taken out the few things of value or things that they want, but then there's all of these beautiful, fascinating, interesting things. When you have time, you can sort of, like, dig through it and. And pull out these. These little moments of what, like. Of how the impression of these people, like, how it's lasted, and then bring it back into them. Which is so interesting because within the world of staging and if you were to, like, you know, research it and then sort of like, what are the top points? It's always like, remove everything, depersonalize it, strip it out, paint it all white, and make it super generic. And I've sort of learned, especially in, you know, Manhattan and other markets, that that doesn't always apply. It's. It's really the opposite. And while you sometimes don't want the personal story of, like, someone's wedding photos and things like that, but again, when you're dealing with really, really fascinating people and collectors, their. Their story is those pieces of art that they picked up, you know, 60 years ago in Europe or collected from something else or bought at auction. And so, like, weaving it all together creates these sort of, like, timeless apartments in Manhattan. And not a lot of people do that. Typically. They're either left as is and feel really old and stodgy and dated and. And heavy. And sometimes you can tell that someone passed away in this home, or other times, it's just a bunch of, like, generic white boucle furniture, and that's it. And when you see it visually, there's. There's a disconnect. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't feel right. And from being a real estate agent for 20 years, that's not what the people coming into those buildings expect. They expect to see these sort of, like, legacy pieces and heritage and. And, you know, or respect of history. And so that's what I've tried to do when I'm working on those spaces.
[00:38:15] Speaker B: For projects that aren't as stately or historically significant. Do you talk to me about your design process? Like, do you come up with. With a potential buyer in your head and you're like, this is who I'm staging this for? Or are you just like, I know how to make this room look great, and that's what I'm focused on?
[00:38:36] Speaker A: No, it's. There's always a very long, rambling story.
Oh, here he goes again with the story. You know, again, it's. My advantage in this field is I was a real estate agent for 20 years, and so I have an understanding of who is buying in these neighborhoods, in these buildings, in these price points, their preferences, like the things that excite them or interest them. And so that it. And that's how all of this started, is I was working with the homeowner when they were still living there, and it didn't really connect with who was coming in the door. And so it was like, started making these subtle changes. And so as the business has grown and things have evolved, you know, there's so many micro neighborhoods, there's so many little details and nuances that are so different. And while there are things within the inventory that can shift, you know, the sort of like 180 degree design spectrum by neighborhood and price, there are a lot of things that sort of fuse and go together or meet in the middle. And so when we're doing these projects, I often, I'm looking at the neighborhood, the architecture, the price point, the building type and the configuration. Like, you know, there's the difference between that, that two bedroom SoHo apartment that is clearly a bachelor pad versus that three bedroom apartment in Tribeca, one neighborhood over, that's clearly a family apartment. And so we'll start with sort of like those core principles and then sign around that.
[00:40:01] Speaker B: So you were just giving the example that under normal circumstances someone signs and you're in and out within a day. And the whole process has been two weeks. How, how much prep work, as far as knowing, okay, I know I want it to be this sofa, I every like how much prep work goes into knowing which exact items are going in. Because logistics in New York City are a fricking nightmare.
So it's like you kind of gotta know and have it right. And I'm sure you have, you know, probably 10% overage of making sure that it works. But talk us through the logistics of pulling everything without being in the space, doing it so fast, getting it moved in, getting out of there in a day. I know some projects you're painting, literally I've watched you paint the bookshelves.
[00:40:51] Speaker A: You know, again, it's really a systematic process that it sounds overwhelming, but when you have a spreadsheet and you have it bucketed out, you really understand it. And so once you've measured the door frames and you've measured the elevator, then you're measuring the space and then we're sort of going into the inventory. And I would say on average we maybe take 10% additional inventory. It's usually, and it's more me than the team where I'm like, oh, I have this idea of like these two different pieces. I just want to test it out in the space and see and then make a decision. But I would say the, the majority of things that we take like 10 to 15% extra of are really artwork and accessories. Because the, the foundation, the furniture, it is very easy to map it out. Like I, I have a wide ranging inventory where we're looking at specific measurements again, there's only so many pieces that go into a room. It's not. It's not like I'm like, oh, my God, what do we do? You know, it's like, here's the 16 pieces of furniture that belong in a room. And there might be some variants here or there, but at the end of the day, it's always that they fit into a spreadsheet. And so it becomes very easy to do it. It's funny. Like, I'll. I'll talk with designer friends who. They're like, doing a show house or a showroom or something, and they're always like, oh, my God. It's like. And this showed up and it didn't. And I was like, I'll. I'll just come and help. We'll be done in like two hours and then go to lunch. Like, it's. It's super easy, you know, Again, it. It comes down to how do you pack the truck, what comes off first, and that system. And it's like, I. I figured that out in those early years. It took me a really long time, but now, I mean, I. I run it a little bit like a military organ. Like, if I see something go in the truck the wrong way, I make them stop and bring it out. And like, if a rug is rolled the wrong way because it doesn't allow us to easily. Like, I make sure everyone knows, like, that is not how we roll this rug. We do it this way. The way we unpack accessories is highly organized and synchronized. The way that. And now I'm. It's interesting because the process in which we do the installs, I'm now relaying to the warehouse team as we're setting up the new warehouse. And so we had this happened the other day where one of the helpers who's just there helping to unpack line unpacked and lined everything up in an area that's about to be laid out. So now that entire thing needs to be moved. And that's something that at an install years ago, like, the movers would bring in all the artwork and leave it strewn about the apartment. I was like, no, it needs to be concentrated into one specific area. And then I realized, oh, wait, we're spending all this time moving the art from here to there to there, because these are all the places in which furniture goes. So now it's like, everyone knows that as the artwork comes in, it goes on a wall or space, that there's no furniture that is going to go on because Then you don't have to move it two or three times.
[00:43:46] Speaker B: I'm curious if you know, off the top of your head, where in the design process, your process really differs from a traditional full service interior designer. Like, where in your process are you able to, for lack of a better word, cut corners to expedite this process? So when you have gotten your measurements, you've done what we would call a design Discovery Day. You know what's going to fit in the elevator? Do you guys get as far as doing actual floor plans? Or you're like, we measured it. We know that these, this couch is going to work. This is now in a new spreadsheet.
[00:44:23] Speaker A: Yeah. So what's nice is know again, because with the real estate, almost everything, if it's sold within the last 20 years, a floor plan exists digitally online. And so we're able to pull that floor plan. We always, we print it, we bring it with us. A tape measure, pen and pencil. And so for me personally, I go in, I measure, and I just sit on the floor in an empty space and I start designing. And I usually, I start with. And again, it, you know, I think anyone, once you've been doing this long enough, there's just an intuition that comes with time that at the beginning, someone listening to this who may be at the start of the career is like, when does that happen? Like, I can't tell you, but there's just gonna come a moment where you walk into a room and you're just like, okay, I see that skirted Sophie. And yep, that's there. And that's. And then all of a sudden, again, it's. It's really comes down to numbers. Your brain does that. And then you look at your spreadsheet and you're like, oh, I've got 4, 40% of this room done, and I've been in here for three minutes. Right. And so, and that's something I've taught my team is like, start with the foundations. Start with what you know. Start with what feels right. Anything that is troubling or that you can't figure out or you're stumped on, come back to it at the very end. Because otherwise you get stuck into this, like this inertia of I don't know what to do. So I always do that. I don't know what to do at the very end because I find that by the time that you finished, everything else that I don't know is you figured it out. And so the difference, though, within that design process is I'm going In I'm sitting there, I figure this out, I study it. I'm not going to the client and saying, what do you think about this? What do you feel about this? Are you ready to have a call? I'm pretty much like, I've put that into our spreadsheet. My warehouse team gets an alert and they'll start to, like, based on our move in date, they figure out what's the date to begin to pull the stuff off the shelves. So it is a very different process.
[00:46:19] Speaker B: What does install day look like for you? You're saying you're doing all in a day. Are you personally at every install, or do you have people on your team where you're like, you guys got this. It doesn't have to be me. Something tells me that you're at every install.
[00:46:32] Speaker A: No, And I, you know, Anastasia, honestly, that that is one thing as a business owner I'm struggling with, because that is the thing that I've always loved, that I always enjoyed, was even the physical side of it. Like, even in the early days, my mover, the movers who I work with are like, Jason, you. You don't need to come out into the truck. Like, we'll bring it in. And I'm like, no, I like. I actually enjoy going out. Like, I like the physical aspect. It's. To me, it's like your hands are in it. It's like you're building it. And so I'm not at every install anymore because I'm typically, when by the time they're installing, I'm trying to bring in, you know, 10 other projects, meeting with clients. I'm at a photo shoot. There's so many other things that I have to do. And that is one of the things with the small and nimble team is you can't always be there. So, yeah, sadly, I'm. I'm not. That. That is something that, you know, when you sit and you do those exercises and business plans and you think about, like, what makes you happy. The install is the part that I love more than anything. And sometimes it's hard not physically being there.
[00:47:35] Speaker B: Isn't that wild how when you sit and assess your. Your firm, whatever structure that looks like, so often the thing that you got started wanting to do or the part that you really loved is the part that gets delegated? That's definitely something that I look at internally all the time, and it's something.
[00:47:52] Speaker A: I think about and it's something I try and do. Like, if I. If there's a project where I'm really Into it. Sometimes I just start on a weekend or late at night, or I'll go with the mover separately. And just like, there's key areas I want to work on, do have my hands in, because I know I can't physically be there during the install day, but I'm like, no, I want to. Like, I want to physically design this. I want this to be me. But I work with my team so closely, and I think the. The other part of it too, is every single piece of inventory I've procured, like, that's all me. And so I'm only putting in the pieces that I connect with, that I see that I want. And so it. It makes it a little bit easier.
[00:48:33] Speaker B: Yeah, you're like, it can't be that bad. Like, I picked it. Like, they can't mess it up that badly. So when you're sending the team off for an install, I know we were talking about floor plans, and you're able to get those from the listing, which is great. Are you sending them with. Even if it's like a sketch of, like, this is what this layout looks like.
[00:48:53] Speaker A: Do they.
[00:48:54] Speaker B: What are deliverables the day of in order to make your processes so efficient?
[00:48:58] Speaker A: When you say deliverables day of, what do you like?
[00:49:01] Speaker B: Do they have a floor plan or elevations for each room? Do they know what the shelves are going to look like? Is it very much more fluid and how it. How it feels when you're there?
[00:49:10] Speaker A: Well, what's really fun is, like, at this point, like, the design team is also designing. Right. Like, it's not just me dictating. I want to. And so we've gone through internally sort of already. Like, we've gone through the selections, we've made swaps, we've made changes. I might say bring these two pieces because I'm not sure. Or, you know, like, it could go either way. Why don't you see just what works best in the space? And so by the time they're physically there, you know, I'm not micromanaging every detail on the shelf, but I'll. I'll get pictures at the end and I'll sort of say, like, take a look at this.
This looks too tight. This should be shifted over. Because I want people to be able to design. Right. So you have to have some sort of, like, brand guidelines and just things that you can edit out. But I try to give them the space to be creative.
[00:50:01] Speaker B: Talk to me about overhead costs that those listening are probably not considering. One question I had alongside that is, you said that we work with a moving team. You do not employ a moving team. You outsource a moving team. Is that correct?
[00:50:17] Speaker A: The moving team we've outsourced, I've worked with them for. It's been 10 years. I have the same crew. It's just become more efficient to do it this way. And that's something that I am sort of toying with. Next, after the new warehouses, do we buy two trucks, bring them in house and sort of figure that part out of it. But the overhead, I mean, this is where all of a sudden it does become a very different industry because designers are not like at least a 24,000 square foot warehouse that is already filled to the brim. And so your rent is, is the overhead, the cost of all those. I'm carrying all of this inventory, like I'm not buying it specific for one project and then it's sold. So all of those inventory costs, the team marketing, photography and all of that, those are like the, the baseline overhead costs. I mean, and then obviously insurance and everything else.
[00:51:09] Speaker B: Can you, can you give us a ballpark, like just round numbers of like what a staging project brings it? Like what does a proposal look like? Are we talking that it's going to be five figures, six figures, two figures?
[00:51:27] Speaker A: It's one of those things that it's, it's so market specific. Like if you were to go to Reza, which is the Real Estate Stagers association, you know, you'll get general numbers for the US and they're not in relation to like New York or LA or things like that. So for my opening a one bedroom, the opening price point is $18,000. Two bedrooms are 20, then it's like 25. And you know, we've gone up to six figures. There are some firms that like their one bedroom opening price point, and this is like the upper tier is $40,000. And then at the low end you could probably find someone who's more of a hobbyist who's buying everything per project at probably like 10 or $12,000.
[00:52:09] Speaker B: Got it. That's super helpful. You'd mentioned earlier that you're getting five to ten inquiries a day. And I'm just curious volume of what you're actually able to produce out of that many inquiries. Like how many installs are y'all doing? I don't know if it's easier to say it monthly or weekly, but like how many projects are you usually managing?
[00:52:30] Speaker A: Yeah, so overall managing probably 15 to 20 projects at one time, but they can often be in so many different phases and Then average per week, we move every day of the week. And so if we're not installing, we are breaking down and removing, but we're doing anywhere from three to five installs per week. If I were to double the number of employees, then we'd be doing probably double. And that's sort of part of the. Where we were working out of the last warehouse space, we weren't physically able to do. Like, there was just no way to physically do that. That is something that probably as we head into peak season for next spring, we might be able to start to accommodate. But that's, you know, this is one thing where I, you know, I'm sitting down and having, like, those come to Jesus moments where, you know, the more and more volume you're doing, the further you sometimes are getting away from what you want to do and how you want it to look. And I. I don't really know if that's what I want.
[00:53:31] Speaker B: I'd love to pick your brain. As we get ready to wrap up on just kind of more design questions than I typically normally ask. I would love to hear when you walk into a space from this real estate background, like, what are the elements of a space that you're. Like, this needs to get highlighted. It might not be the way that someone would have actually lived in this space, but, like, this needs to be highlighted. This is what you're going to kind of downplay. What are the things that you're looking to accentuate in the staging process?
[00:54:01] Speaker A: Yeah, so it's twofold. And that, again, that's. That differentiator between staging and design is like, we're. We're maximizing the value. We're trying to. There's two metrics on which we're really judged. Right. Your days on market and your return on investment. Those are like the two big things I'm always thinking about. Then there's. For me, personally, I have, like, my own set of metrics. Like, while, again, you're always trying to quantify how much of a return did you generate. But like, this. This town, as I mentioned, in the West Village, like, knowing that about 10 to 12 people didn't buy this house, but spent the time to find us and reach out and ask us to design their residence, to me, that's like the personal. That's the success of it. And so the number one thing is first, like, mitigate all the flaws. Right. Like, the. The way this started was I would walk through the space and I would pick out all of the things that were problems. And I used to explain to the seller, by leaving this as is, I'm just going to take like $5,000 out of your pocket ever. Like, that's, that's. You are. You are literally just handing someone leverage to negotiate against you by not addressing the, you know, the walls are peeling, the. The outdated lighting from 40 years ago is flickering and looks like a crime scene. And so first we start with, like, the mitigation of everything. And then it's sort of like, what are the positives? Why is someone coming here? And then it's really sort of doubling down on that. That view, the. The room flow. Sometimes there's not necessarily an architectural or a design element. It might be like the price per square foot. And then we're just like, we're trying to design the most beautiful space. But my real estate background, I'm saying to the agent, like, you need to highlight the fact that this is like the best price per square foot for this neighborhood. This is the best value in building. And so 99% of the time, we're focused on the design every once in a while, there's not really anything that special. And we're focusing on, like, what is the business of it? Like, what, what. What makes someone realize this is a value proposition and they need to. To pounce on it?
[00:56:08] Speaker B: What makes a project really successful for you? Obviously, getting it sold quickly is like, top. But are there any sort of criterias beyond that that make you feel like that was a killer project?
[00:56:21] Speaker A: Yeah, so it's very similar to the. The one that we were talking about earlier, that the Prince and Princess's Castle is. The agents who had this listing, they contacted me and said, like, we have a project for you and we're not talking to anyone else. Like, this is like, there is no one else that can do this type of project. And I get quite a bit of those. And that's something that, as the company grows and as I'm trying to figure out, like, what's. What's five years down the road or what's this, I'm almost trying to like, really focus on the niche that we're in and double down on it. Right. And I want more and more inquiries where someone is saying, like, we have this really unique property and there is no one else that can do it except for you. And that, that's that personal side that people are starting to. To value the design and understand what it brings to the equation. Because the truth is, like, that is not something that's common within the home staging industry. Right. Like, it's It's a lot of space filling, furniture and sort of banality. And so people coming to me and saying I'm working on one now that I'm hoping is, is getting signed. It will be our biggest. Like I, I walked in the door and I, it, it was like, like I, I, I like almost passed out in this house and that was. I met with the seller who is the, she's the child of a very famous architect and she is an architect and what she's done is home is stunning. And she sat across me and she's like, you're the only one. And I was like, oh my God. And I'm like, look at, I'm like this Nate Burgers. I mean like, what is going on? So that for me personally is what I'm really trying to focus on is, is people seeing that this, this is design, it's a little bit different, you know. And we're like I said, we're not fabricating, you know, not Jake Arnold, but like we're doing something really special that stands out in this marketplace.
[00:58:11] Speaker B: Last question. You kind of already touched on it. I always like to know like what's coming up next. I know you just got your huge new warehouse. That was a enormous endeavor that you're currently still setting up. I can't wait to see what this project is. Oh wait, pause, rewind. Sorry. I had one other question. How does photography work for you? Is that being, is photography handled by the agent? Do you buy access to that to be able to use or are you like.
[00:58:40] Speaker A: No, no, no.
[00:58:41] Speaker B: I'm only having my people photograph because like I'm not going to let you mess up what I've created here with.
[00:58:46] Speaker A: A real estate photo d all of the above. So it's really funny. So I actually just celebrated my 10 year anniversary with my photography team. I, I met a company, a husband and wife 10 years ago and I have shot pretty much every project with them. So I love photography and I, when I like speak and do courses for home stagers, I explain like this is a business and you need to invest in it. You cannot rely on the real estate photography 1. You're not like legally allowed to. You don't own the license. But you know, again, we're doing such highly detailed work that I don't want someone to come, you know, like a, a very specific real estate photography company to come in, stand in a corner, take this big wide room shot, all the lights are on and like the editing, you know, it, it looks like like those glamour shots from like the 1980s or it's all, like, vaselined out and they're like this. So I often.
Most of the agents I work with do work with the photo company that I use. I try and do the photography for a lot of my. It is my favorite thing. It's like if someone were to say, like, oh, I'm going on vacation, or I'm going to my favorite yoga class, like, I'm going to my favorite photo shoot. And so there are quite a few times where there are some agents who. Who use their real estate photographer. And I've gone back in and photographed it for myself. The Prince and Princess's apartment. I actually the. What it was. The space was so big. And so there are three photographers in particular that they all work for the same company. Were all friends, like, outside of just, you know, the business. And so I've always said, like, wouldn't it be fun if, like, we could all do a shoot together? And so for that project, I booked the three of them for an entire day, and we shot this apartment and just started, like, doing vignettes and other things and, like, really playing getting into the art of it. And I paid for the whole thing because. And you're going to. This is one thing I remember from design camp. I. I am very slowly working on a book, and so I am just a believer in, like, doing the photography at the beginning. And so part of the reason I've become so meticulous with the photography is, like, setting it up to eventually do this book.
[01:01:02] Speaker B: Yeah. So exciting. Okay, well, then perfect. Thank you for segueing me back to my closing questions before I realized I had more for you. Yeah. What comes next? It sounds like you're in this. This pretty pivotal moment of also assessing what does success for me look like? Like, what do I want the rest of my career to look like, and how do I want to spend those days? So talk to us about any top secrets you're allowed to share or anything big that's coming next for Stage Sell.
[01:01:29] Speaker A: So, yeah, continuing. One of the things that's come really interesting and organic is a lot of work with brands that are seeing their products featured in these spaces and photographed a certain way with a lot of vintage. And so I've done several campaigns with CB2. I'm working with West Elm now, Lulu in Georgia, and a lot of smaller artists and ceramicists whose work I collect and love and just feature and put on Instagram for other people to be able to have access to them and to find them. That's what a lot of people come for. And so one thing again, like I read what people say to me on that and for years people saying like, this is a TV show, like, how do you not have a show? And so I've been slowly filming some of the work that we're doing and the move and trying to, I haven't put anything out there yet, but we're, we're creating some more of it and then I'm going to just work on how to sort of put it out there because it's one thing like I, I don't really have like a Bravo personality and I don't, I don't, I don't think I want to. No offense to anyone, like, you know, but, you know, one of the things I learned through social media is like you're you, you have the ability to create control list and do it the way that you want to. If you realize it, like may not be in the traditional way that we think about like a Property Brothers type show, but you have the creative control to put it out there the way you want to. And so I've been working with someone and sort of fashioning in this look and feel that is, is very different and I don't know if that's good or bad. I guess we'll, we'll see in due time. But we have been filming the move, a couple projects and some other stuff and we'll see what happens with. I don't know.
[01:03:14] Speaker B: That is exciting. I mean, it sounds like a YouTube series that I will absolutely be subscribe to. I can't wait to see your spin on it. Jason, this was such an immense joy to get to hang out with you. Thank you so much. I cannot wait to follow you around and, and hold your purse while you're in Round Top because I'm holding you to it. I'm just going to show up and, and let you pick out stuff for me. I've started saving already for Jason's visit.
[01:03:40] Speaker A: John, you like, you don't need to ask. I'm. If I'm coming, I'm in.
[01:03:45] Speaker B: Thank you so much for your time. I know this was super helpful, super enlightening and eye opening for a lot of people who are maybe still exploring like what their career journey, what their design journey is going to look like. So thank you so much for your time.
[01:03:57] Speaker A: Thank you.
[01:04:04] Speaker C: For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more, don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes or at patreon.com/forward/the interior collective thank you so so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. The biggest thank you to you our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible. Until next time. I'm Anastasia Casey and this is the Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living.
[01:05:02] Speaker A: SA.
