[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Welcome back to the Interior Collective. I'm your host, Anastasia Casey and today I'm sitting down with two people whose business model sits at the intersection of residential design and hospitality ownership. Katie labordette Martinez and Olivia Waller are sister in laws and co founders of Hearth Homes Interiors, a full service residential interior design studio based in Santa Barbara. They started together in 2017 in a staging business, developed a reputation for honoring the character of older homes, and eventually pivoted their business entirely to full service interior design.
In 2023, they founded Hearth Hospitality Group alongside Olivia's brothers Lucas and Julian and their longtime friend Jason. They now own and operate three historic inns and two restaurants across Santa Barbara with Hearth Homes Interiors as the design arm of it all.
The Crafthouse Inn was included in goop's Best of Santa Barbara guide, named one of the best hotels in Santa Barbara in 2024 Sunset Travel Awards and their design work has been featured in Luxe, Sunset Modern Luxury and Rue. The Hearth philosophy is simple. Honor what came before and create spaces with an unmistakable sense of place. Today we are discussing what it means to design across both residential and boutique hospitality and what other design studios can learn and implement into their own business.
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[00:02:26] Speaker C: Thank you for having us.
[00:02:28] Speaker A: We're so excited to be here.
[00:02:29] Speaker B: Well, I have a lot to cover and so we're going to dive right in. Katie and Olivia, give us a snapshot of where Hearth Homes Interiors and Hearth Hospitality Group are today. You guys have a lot of irons in the fire. How are the two businesses structured and what do each of your roles look like amongst them?
[00:02:47] Speaker A: Yeah, so Today, I would say both Hearth Homes Interiors and Hearth Hospitality are both in a. An age of growing and thriving, which is really exciting.
We have been in business for almost 10 years, so it feels really good to finally be at a place where we can say that it's been a couple years of feeling like that.
But I think Hearth Homes Interiors is a. It's a luxury interior design firm here in Santa Barbara, California.
We have so many incredible clients with all different types of projects and different scopes and different styles, which keeps us on our toes.
And then we have our Hearth Hospitality Group, which is.
We own three historic inns in Santa Barbara. And then we also have two restaurants locally.
[00:03:41] Speaker C: Full Plate.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: Full Plate, yes. We got a very full plate. I don't want to lie and say that it's been an easy road to get here. It's definitely been a. You know, we've gone through our fair share of trials and tribulations, but we were able to really kind of buckle down and hone in a few years back and figure out a way to make both businesses successful. So that's where we're at today. So in terms of structure, on the interior side, we have seven of us in studio.
It's myself. I'm the director of operations and sales. And then Katie is our creative director, so she oversees all the creative that leaves the studio.
We have an operations manager. We have a senior designer. We have two junior designers, and we have a design assistant.
We also outsource procurement, and then we outsource some of our rendering and drafting.
But in studio, there's seven of us. And then on the hospitality side, Katie and I are both partners in that as well. And then we have my brother, who's Katie's husband, Lucas. He operates as our CEO. He's kind of our business guru.
And then we have Jason, who's our COO of hospitality. And then my other brother, Julian heads up the food and beverage. And then on the hospitality side, there's also 75 people underneath all of that. So it's a large operation.
So I'm not going to get in the weeds there. But, yeah, it takes a village.
[00:05:11] Speaker B: Wow, that is.
That is a lot. And I mean, obviously you said you guys have three inns now, plus two restaurants. I mean, 75 people. That. That does make sense when we're talking
[00:05:20] Speaker C: about hospitality, but it sounds like a lot.
[00:05:26] Speaker B: Definitely.
Okay, so I know you all listen to the show. You know, I'm going to ask, as a design firm, when we're talking design, how are you guys handling billing Is it hourly, flat rate, a combination? What does that look like? Yeah.
[00:05:40] Speaker A: So billing as. I'm sure many designers say this. I know they know they say this on your podcast, but this is something we've iterated on probably 10 times in the past. And I don't know that we'll ever land on something that's completely finalized.
But right now we are in a spot where we. I feel like we finally landed somewhere that feels good. And it. It has been successful for us. And that's a hybrid model, so we charge a flat fee up until up through the design presentations. So that gets the client from the contract signing through the design presentations, and then from there we move into hourly billing for revisions, for project management, all of that. And then procurement is a flat fee percentage on the product cost.
And that's pretty much where we're at at installs are flat day rates. Because, you know, I'm not going to charge a client for our entire team hourly to be on site for a week. So, yeah, that's a flat day rate for the whole team to kind of be boots on the ground.
But, yeah, that's. That's where we're at today. And it's been working out really well.
[00:06:48] Speaker C: And then hospitality. Do you want to talk about how we do the billing for that a little bit? Yeah, I mean, it's a little different.
[00:06:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Hospitality. We. We charge a flat fee for hospitality, so because a lot of times when investors are involved with hospitality, you have to kind of stick to a very specific budget that's laid out very early on in that process. So we charge a flat fee throughout our hospitality projects and kind of loop procurement into that flat fee. So there's no surprises for anyone.
[00:07:19] Speaker B: Well, strictly residential speaking, I mean, you guys are using my preferred billing method, so perfectly executed.
[00:07:27] Speaker C: We attended Design Camp. We went to design camp in 2020. 2023, I think, is what we figured out.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: May of 2023.
[00:07:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:36] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:07:38] Speaker C: And we, first of all, amazing. We talk about going back all the time.
We brainstormed a lot with other designers there, like what was working, what wasn't working. It was just. It was a great platform to be able to pick everyone's brains. And there were actually that same Design Camp were a ton of other designers from the Santa Barbara area, which was really fun to pick their brains and see how they do it in our surrounding areas.
So once after we went to Design Camp, we sat down, reviewed the business, and we actually ended up changing how we were doing our billing structure right after that. So that's you know, thank you.
[00:08:15] Speaker B: Well, and that's fascinating because I feel like when you guys came, that was spring 2023. I mean, we're recording this towards the end of summer of 2026, three years later. And that really is the model that I continue to hear from, from people as I. I feel like as an industry, maybe we're getting closer to. I hate to say standard, because what's beautiful about our industry is that you can do it however you want, but at the same time, that's also a pain point, is that you can do it however you want. So I like to say baseline. A baseline.
[00:08:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:47] Speaker B: Great pricing model. So fantastic.
[00:08:49] Speaker A: It makes sense to clients, which is super, you know, helpful.
[00:08:53] Speaker C: It makes sense both ways.
[00:08:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:54] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: It protects us, and it makes makes sense to a client, for sure.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:58] Speaker B: Okay, so you both came from corporate careers before the pivot to design. How did that origin story shape the way you built the business in those early years?
[00:09:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:09] Speaker C: So go ahead.
[00:09:10] Speaker A: I mean, for me to be totally transparent, I was still quite young when we started our company. I was very young. I was very naive.
But I think it's that sheer fact that allowed me to have the confidence to just jump in and try things.
I didn't have, you know, at that point. I didn't have a family.
Well, I had a. I had a boyfriend at the time, but I didn't have kids. I didn't have a husband.
[00:09:38] Speaker C: I.
[00:09:38] Speaker A: There was not a whole lot that I had to lose at that time. I'm lucky.
But I. I feel like it's. It. It was that. That allowed me to really jump in and try different things and be okay with kind of failing and getting up and learning and just sort of iterating as we went.
If, you know, if you had come to me today and told me or asked me to start a business without any real credentials or any, you know, formal education, I would have run the other direction. Like, I wouldn't have had the confidence by any means to do that today. So I think that is actually what kind of got me personally going in this business. And it gave us this sort of mindset of where there's a problem, there's always a solution. And that's something we've taken through us, you know, since day one.
[00:10:35] Speaker C: My. I did have a corporate background. I'm a little bit older than Olivia, the big sister.
I. My corporate background. So I.
I realized that I have a very strong work ethic, and I don't have a. I don't have a hard time putting in the extra work and stuff. What I realized I had a hard time with was doing that for someone else.
My parents are entrepreneurs. Olivia's parents are entrepreneurs. Jason's parents are entrepreneurs. So we all grew up with these mentors who we saw kind of building their own businesses and brands.
Yeah. So I. I just learning, I think my own level of the degree I'm willing to go to. And I had a background in events, so it was like long days. A lot of logistics was, I think, was a little bit of a nice background getting into staging, which is what we started with.
And I was also on the design team for products like shoes and handbags and things like that. So I had a little bit of everything in the background, and I just got frustrated doing all that for someone else. So we just jumped right in. My husband Lucas, quit his corporate job, and we kind of just bootstrapped. Yeah, we just. We were about to get married too. We were like, why don't we just shake everything up?
[00:12:02] Speaker B: So your husband joined you at the infancy of starting the business. Yeah, that's. That is super unique. I feel like a lot of times I hear, you know, two years in, three years in, 10 years in, it's like, finally someone's partner is like, all right, I guess we're doing this. So that is. That is very impressive. You. You started in staging and house flipping before transitioning to full service interior design. What did that staging background give you that has stayed with you as designers?
[00:12:31] Speaker C: I think one of the biggest things, which our answers might be a little bit different, but we.
When we started the business, we were also around that early year, two years, we were looking for houses for ourselves to buy.
And so we were seeing a lot of staged homes and how cold and sterile they looked. And I don't know, we were just like, I feel like we could do this a little naively maybe.
So we were looking for our own homes. We were seeing this hole in the market of basically what we wanted to be able to a home we wanted to walk into.
And so we started the business and we realized that just like that extra level of attention to detail, styling out bookshelves, the type of art that's being put on the walls, like creating really cozy beds to sleep in, just doing the elements that help those staged homes stand out a little bit more is what got us really, really busy really quickly.
[00:13:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I think we. We always wanted to.
We're both perfectionists, right? So, like, I mean, it's in the nature of many designers, I would imagine.
And we wanted to be the standout staging company in town.
And to do that, we had to make the houses really feel like a home and feel lived in and just kind of, you know, warm and inviting and not just something that's going to sell, but something that's going to feel really, really personal to somebody when they walk in. So rather than kind of trying to just appeal to the masses and, you know, okay, a bed goes there, a nightstand goes there. We really wanted to fill the spaces with life and character.
And that's something that's definitely, obviously stuck with us in our design journey as well.
[00:14:20] Speaker B: Okay, so fast forward. At what point did you make the decision to walk away from staging entirely and how did you manage, manage that transition, like financially, operationally? Because I'm sure you now have warehouses worth of stuff and like a completely different team that's moving stuff in and out and schlepping stuff around. And now all of a sudden you have a design studio.
[00:14:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So to be totally honest, we were just so burnt out. We were trying to do way too many things at one time. We were staging houses. We would have like three or four houses per week that we would be staging. And then we were also trying to do client work. And then we were also flipping houses at that time, so.
And then we had a tiny team because we were, you know, we were still really young. So I think there was three of us. Yeah, three with maybe one social media
[00:15:11] Speaker B: person doing four installs.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: Ridiculous. We were, we were, it was too, way too much.
And so at one point we all kind of like, our hair is a
[00:15:20] Speaker B: mess and we look at each other
[00:15:21] Speaker A: and we're just like, what are we doing?
[00:15:24] Speaker C: Why are we building furniture until 3:00
[00:15:27] Speaker B: clock in the morning?
[00:15:27] Speaker C: Like, I have a 1 year old at home.
[00:15:29] Speaker A: Yeah. We needed to focus and I think we, we had a sort of come to Jesus moment where we were like, okay, what, you know, where do we want the business to go?
And staging just. It became very clear that staging wasn't something that was leading us towards our goals.
And so while we, you know, it was, it was a personal part of our business and it was the thing that kind of got us started.
And it was hard to part with it, but it definitely felt like the right decision for us.
So we ended up selling all of our inventory in a couple, you know, we, we got really lucky, actually. We had a few clients reach out to us for short term rental properties. They wanted us to basically furnish short term rental properties.
And so we did that and we sold all the furniture. And then we had a warehouse sale, and then we used all of that money as seed money to renovate our studio. So we were able to kind of create this really great space that was once a warehouse and is now our. Our design studio. So that was really cool.
[00:16:31] Speaker B: Oh, you didn't even move spaces. That's so genius. Wow. That is tricky. Okay. Okay.
So before we really dig into hospitality, which is what I'm supposed to be talking to you about, I want to talk about the residential studio a little bit. You have really built your niche around historic home for modern families in Santa Barbara. What drew you specifically to that type of work? Because I do think to listeners who haven't been to Santa Barbara, I. I think when they look you guys up and see your ends, I don't think it's necessarily the type of homes someone thinks of when it comes to Santa Barbara. Someone thinks, like, super beachy, super coastal, and, like, their beautiful American craftsman spaces. So talk to us about how you got drawn into that and really how it's become your identity.
[00:17:22] Speaker C: So the interesting thing about Santa Barbara is the array of different types of architecture in town and the surrounding areas. There. There is that kind of American Riviera look design, interior design look that a lot of spaces in Santa Barbara have. But the architecture is kind of all over the place, which is really fun and interesting because it. Not everything looks the same.
But what was interesting with staging is we got to. We staged a lot of homes, so we got to see a ton of different types of architecture and work with that for a few years before we. We pivoted into just doing interior design.
[00:18:05] Speaker A: We.
[00:18:06] Speaker C: We started honing in on these historical homes because, well, it can be really fun to strip a home bare and, like, start from the beginning. The constraints that come with a historical home, just, like, honoring the space that was there.
They're built differently than a new build. Just the history behind it.
[00:18:30] Speaker B: I don't know.
[00:18:31] Speaker C: The constraints, really, the constraints of an older home really does breed a lot of creativity for us, and just. Yeah, we really do want to honor the spaces, and I think we just like a challenge, and there's always something that comes up that you didn't expect.
[00:18:49] Speaker B: I don't know.
[00:18:50] Speaker C: Maybe we just like to punish ourselves.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: Well, I think with the inns particularly, it's so funny to see, like, when you get into the inns, what these past owners have done over the years to kind of, like, just make it work as a bed and breakfast. But we would just peel back the layers and find, like, you know, these amazing pocket doors that were hidden behind layers and layers of drywall and wallpaper and paint and, you know, it's kind of this fun puzzle for us to go into a house and see how it once, how it was meant to be like, how it was built and to kind of try and make that work for the modern family.
[00:19:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: Okay, so now let's talk hospitality. It was 2023, so 3ish years ago that you guys co founded Heart.
How.
So at this point you've, you know, buttoned up, closed off, staging, you're doing hospitality projects, doing design work for hospitality. Yes. Obviously you have your residential clients. How did you say? Okay, we're also going to buy and operate an inn.
[00:19:58] Speaker A: So it's interesting. From 2020, you know, from 2017 till 2021, our, that side of our business went through a lot of different lives. Like it, it lived a lot of lives. We started as a flipping business and then when Covid hit the market went crazy and that business model was just not sustainable anymore. And so we started buying and holding properties and renovating them as short term rentals, which is kind of where we got our foot in the door with hospitality.
But the truth is, in Santa Barbara, the short term rental world is pretty volatile and it's, it's, you just never know what's going to happen. There's a lot of red tape in terms of zoning and, you know, rules and, and laws and all that. So when we, in 2021, when we purchased what was what is now the Crafthouse Inn, we kind of had a light bulb moment because here's this beautiful inn that's a historical home and it's zoned as a hotel because it was operated as a bed and breakfast. And it's in the heart of downtown Santa Barbara, which is virtually unheard of for, you know, a bnb to or a short term rental essentially to operate in the heart of downtown Santa Barbara legally.
So we kind of all sat down and we were like, huh? We all have these skill sets like the bed and breakfast model sort of dying. How can we. This might be really cool.
So, yeah, we, we decided that hearth hospitality should be born. And then it was. And that's kind of how it came to be.
[00:21:34] Speaker C: Yeah, we wanted to strategically pick our battles when it came to our short term rentals.
And really the zoning issues was a factor in that. And also not necessarily wanting to say goodbye to any of our properties anymore and like flipping.
[00:21:53] Speaker B: Got it. Because in Santa Barbara and California, I know in California we have, we have a property up in Tahoe. Now it like one year. It's like, it's no problem. And then it's like, well, you can only rent seven times a year. And then it's like, well, now you can't at all. So you're saying that you guys had. Had those properties and you're no longer allowed to rent it, and then you're like, well, now what do I do? And you have to sell it.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: Yeah, well, we didn't actually get to that point, but we were always scared of that.
[00:22:15] Speaker C: Yeah, got it. I mean, this is. Yeah. If that became a big problem, like, this is our Lucas and I, we're both in this. We have no backup plan. We have other spouse that has, has another job.
We, we were, we did have properties that were within the under, like the Coastal Commission. So there are certain amount of certain location away from the ocean, essentially where it was still legal. But even that, you just never knew what you never know was going to
[00:22:48] Speaker A: do, what curveballs they're going to throw us.
[00:22:51] Speaker B: Interesting. Okay. Okay, so let's talk about the Crafth House in First hospitality property that you're owning, managing, designing. Looking back at that first in project, what did you learn about hospitality design that most surprised you? Because at this point you've done other hospitality projects, you've done Airbnbs. What made this kind of scope and level of involvement in the project? How did that shift your thought process when it comes to design, when it comes to just even like, are we going to do this again?
[00:23:23] Speaker C: Um, okay, so surprises or what wasn't a surprise?
Um, I would say this wasn't necessarily a surprise, but a validation which kind of goes back to our staging days is like, it pays to stand out.
So we really took that to heart. We took that lesson with us and we're like, we're, we're going to do this. We're going to be really bold. We're going to do a lot of color, we're going to do a lot of pattern. We're going to like really dive deep into this design story for, for guests so that when they come here, they can feel like they're walking into a little bit of a different world.
And that's really paid off.
We there, we took.
So it was already an operating BNB and we took the.
Was able to take the lowest performing, the worst performing room, which had a funky layout, weird ceiling. It was just, it didn't do well.
And we just created this wow moment. It's one of the most photographed rooms now. You Walk in. It feels like you're just in this beautiful garden.
I wanted to wrap the entire room, wallpaper the ceiling and everything.
Lucas is like, I don't know, this feels like too much. You need to slow down, Katie. Like this wallpaper shows is a little wild. And I was like, we're going to do it.
We did it. And now it's the best, one of the best performing rooms, one of the most requested rooms, one of most photographed rooms. Like it pays to stand out.
So that was a validating element, I think again, for the business of let's not just do what everyone else is doing, let's think outside the box.
[00:24:58] Speaker B: Okay. So, so interesting that you're talking about like high performing or low performing rooms. So, you know, when I'm on your site, I'm looking at each inn as a whole, but they do still operate in a bed and breakfast style that you could just stay in a room. You don't have to like have, you know, a 20 person party to fill the whole space. So it is different than an Airbnb in the way that people typically think of them. Correct.
[00:25:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
So the, the way that we sort of operate is, is we, we do, we do try to sell the whole home as a full home buyout as much as possible.
That's really where we, you know, our whole model kind of revolves around creating spaces for families to gather and for people to make core memories. And offering a whole space is really how we do that.
The when we're 30 days out from a check in date, that's when we open up the, the, the homes for single room buyer, single room reservations.
So if a house hasn't sold for, you know, 30, 30 days prior to check in date, then we start offering it up room by room.
[00:26:07] Speaker B: Got it. Okay, thank you. That's super clear. Okay, so since the crafthouse, you've acquired multiple other historic properties in Santa Barbara and added the two restaurants to heart.
Did, did, I mean, did you ever imagine the business would grow to this extent?
[00:26:22] Speaker C: I mean, you can take this one. We're always thinking about next steps and big picture and where is this going? But yeah, answer, that's why.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: I mean, yes, to an extent I did see the business growing, but I didn't see the business growing in this way necessarily.
I think when we started, we, we all had big dreams and we were super driven and we, we wanted this business to kind of take off and, and, and do something really cool, but we never would have thought that this is exactly where we would have ended up. Like I said when we got the craft house, it kind of, it was like this light bulb moment, like, oh, you know, and then our other brother who does food and beverage, it's like, oh, you're, you're a chef, so you make the food and we'll do the other.
[00:27:07] Speaker C: Come into this with us.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: Yeah. So you don't even have another spouse to support. You can't even call up your brother. Like you're all in this together. It's a full on family affair
[00:27:20] Speaker C: like we have. So I think you went through everyone. Jason's there, Lucas, Julian, myself, Olivia. Jason has been best friends with Lucas since they were in second grade. He was on the east coast, we brought him over, he married Lucas and I, he married Olivia and her husband. Like it's very much a family affair,
[00:27:41] Speaker A: all very close, very intertwined. Yeah.
[00:27:44] Speaker B: If you've been running your firm for a few years now, you've probably got a system in place. And I do use that term loosely. It's going to be a mix of apps, some spreadsheets, maybe a project management tool. That was close but never quite right. And you are still the one holding it all together.
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I'm sure it's an immense amount of work but also can you guys just touch on like the technical side of financing operations like this, this like when you're ready to go. I mean it sounds like you brought partners in, partners, being literal, you know, marriage partners, but also business partners. Like do you take on partners and outside investors? Is everything self funded? When you sold everything else, did it be like roll over to this or are you managing it like truly on a case by case basis? It sounds like such a dream, but I'd love for someone to say, okay, that's a stepping stone. Like I can, I can look into that. You know what I mean?
[00:29:45] Speaker C: So our, the first time we brought in outside investors was the, our last two acquisitions. So our, our restaurant, Bistro Mesa and Simpson House, and that was the first time we brought someone else in.
Bigger dreams need bigger budgets and you know that we needed some help with that.
But in terms of like how we're managing this, all of the leadership team, meaning myself, Olivia, Jason, Julian, Lucas, we all have a very unique set of skills and we stick to our lane. So all of our roles support each other and each other's responsibilities. So I do creative across the board. Olivia's in charge of operations for interiors. Jason's in charge of operations for hospitality. Lucas is in charge of the investor relations. So he is really the one going out there looking for that money to be able to help us grow the business. We all come together and make big decisions together on the business, but we just kind of stick to our lanes and what we need to do. But I will say that hospitality is very capital intensive. It takes a lot to run a restaurant, it takes a lot to run an inn. And you have to be able to have like the systems and processes, the people at the top working to find and you know, help gather the money and then the teens to really be able to run them on the day to day so that we're not stuck in the day to day.
[00:31:15] Speaker B: Taking on a or three historic inn comes with so many challenges. And like you said, you're in Santa Barbara with very particular permitting requirements. And then also that's not even talking about their historic requirements as well. Can you share about the realities of navigating those permits and historic societies, original materials and like structural surprises? How you, how you're handling that when there's, there's a lot of red tape and what you guys are doing there is.
[00:31:48] Speaker C: I would assume that every place has its own sets of challenges and headaches when it comes to permitting. So we know the Santa Barbara area, but I can't tell you what it's like in Chicago.
The, the way we really manage this is a few years ago we made it a point to really start networking and building out our network of people who understand our brand, know what we're trying to build, support that, and really can be there to champion for us when we're not around. And we have this amazing contact. His name is Will Sofran. We love him.
He goes through. He really helps us navigate the permit process. He understands, he has contacts in that. He really understands that to a level that we, yeah, we can. We're just not in it in the day to day and he is. So finding the teams around you that get what you're doing and what you want to build and, and that you trust is so important that that's really what helps us get through specifically like the permitting side of it. In terms of materials and surprises, again, I think it's the networking. Like our contractor, we've used our contractor since the beginning. He actually worked with Olivia's family before we even started our business. We've known him for a very long time. Like the level of trust that we have with him is, is amazing. I. He really understands the level of crafts craftsmanship that we want to achieve. He understands the design what I'm willing and not willing to compromise on when it comes to design and is very respectful of our budgets.
So again, it's like networking and finding those. The team that you can build around you to help get you to where you want to go would be our biggest piece of. One of our biggest pieces of advice. And then kind of the third part because I feel like this is like a three in one question. The structural surprises, that relationship with a contractor. But like the. In a historical home or an older home, 100% of the time there is going to be a surprise that something's going to be happening in the walls, something's going to be happening under the house. Like there will always be something.
[00:34:05] Speaker A: So very expensive surprise.
[00:34:07] Speaker C: Always a very expensive surprise. And I think just planning for that, making sure there is buffer in the timeline for that. There's buffer in the budget for that. It's just kind of prepare like plan for the best, prepare for the worst.
Like for example, right before, the day before I was supposed to have my first child, we were working on a property. It's California, it hardly ever rains here. We happen to have one of the most insane rainy seasons. Lucas went over to the house to go check on it and there was water seeping in under the home into the foundation. And that's if anyone who's renovated a home, they know that is kind of one of the scariest things that can happen. So he's hours before I'm giving birth, he's over the house. Putting sub pumps under the house. Like ended up being $50,000 plus French drain. We had to put around the house, like very. It's not for the faint of heart and you need to be able to like, plan ahead because on your toes. Yeah, you have to be flexible and be able to think on your toes. So it's a long winded, but yeah, yeah, I think those are the most important things. It's like we knew when Lucas had to leave to come to the hospital with me that our contractor was going to be there fixing the problem for us.
[00:35:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd love to dig into the contractor a little bit. They sound amazing. I'm curious, I mean, you guys don't constantly have your own personal projects that you're working on, do you, do you refer this contractor to your residential clients as well? Or do you like to keep it separate because you're like, no, no, no, you're my sac.
You work for us and they can find us.
[00:35:46] Speaker C: We don't like to keep secrets.
[00:35:47] Speaker A: We, we. I will say though, we are very selective about who we do refer him to.
It's. We also know like when, you know, when we're working on a hospitality project, it's pretty all consuming for him. So, you know, timing is always a factor that we think about and then the relationship because we know him so well and we've worked with him for. I've known him since I was like 8 years old. So we've known him for so long. But you know, is he the best contractor for every person? No, the same, you know, same story for every contractor. So we're very particular about who we, who we recommend him to.
[00:36:22] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:23] Speaker B: Okay. So I want to dig into the family dynamic a little bit because as you said, it's so, so, so intertwined.
How do you, if you do separate business from personal? Because not only are you guys talking about like, oh, I'm working with myself spouse, but it's like also my sister in law and also lifetime best friend. Like there's a lot of wires that could get crossed that could be catastrophic to someone's family.
Are you guys strict about like. Nope, we're not talking about work or it's like we're all in it. So it just. There is no boundary. How does, how do you manage it?
[00:36:59] Speaker A: I think our answers would probably be a little different for this.
But what I will say is I think it's, it is funny because when, you know, if you were to ask anybody on the street if they would want to go into business with their sister in law and their brother and their other brother and their, you know. No, they run the other direction.
[00:37:18] Speaker C: I mean, Even a lot of times our clients are like, you guys work with your sister in law. I would never.
[00:37:25] Speaker A: Yeah, we're good. But it wasn't always that way. You know, I think this, when we started the business, there was definitely a learning curve.
I think going into business, particularly for me with my older brother, was hard because we had, we had this one relationship that we'd known our entire lives, and then we started a business together and we had to kind of get to know each other in a completely different light and learn how to communicate in a different way.
And, you know, when your brother comes to you with constructive criticism, it's like your first knee jerk reaction is, no, no. Like, no.
But, you know, after a while when we, we kind of saw what each other had and, and, and we were able to grow these businesses in, in their own way, and we grew this mutual respect for each other. And this isn't just my brother. It's. It's all of us. But I think that's where it kind of started to come together. We were able to, once we learned how to communicate with each other in a work setting and respect the work that the other was putting out, that was, I think, the time where it kind of clicked for me. And then in terms of separating business and personal for, for me at least, like, my partner's not in this company with us. So I feel a little differently about this, I think, than Katie probably does. But I try really hard to separate when I go home, when I'm home, I'm home with my kids, I'm home with my husband.
And then when we all get together, it's impossible to talk about work because the kids are wild animals.
[00:38:54] Speaker C: So it's like a bunch of little boys too. It's like, don't jump off that.
You can't talk about work when you're like, trying to keep them alive.
Yeah, I would say, I think I kind of touched on this earlier, but this is, this is our home life. It's our work life. We work in the same office. We are on opposite ends of the office, but I think it helps that we have these guardrails around. Like, this is my responsibility. This is your responsibility.
Our roles support each other, but I think that helps in creating, like, the communication.
I think. I think that helps with, like, our communication at home and at work.
But it is much harder for Lucas and I to separate it. But I don't know that we want to. We like talking about it. What's the next step? What are we going to work towards next what's working? What's not working? Because we don't always get time to do that at work because we have our own responsibilities. So there isn't that. That same separation. And like I said, I mean, even our kids are like, are we going to the new restaurant? Like, let's go. Like, the kids want to be part of it too. So it's like, well, kids are hyped up on it. Like, let's all talk about it.
[00:40:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I brought, I brought Quinn into the business.
I guess it's been like three years. You guys were probably at the first camp he ever was at. Now that I think about it. He was like working behind the scenes. But I absolutely would have told you five years ago that I would never, ever, ever work with him. And circumstances change and it kind of came out of necessity. And I have to admit, like, there's a, there's a, a new level of intimacy between us because of it. Because there was so much stress and passion behind what I was doing that I could tell him what was going on and he didn't fully comprehend it as, as emotionally brilliant as he is. Like, he just didn't know. And so now it's like, you're not
[00:40:50] Speaker C: into day to day. It's hard.
[00:40:51] Speaker B: Exactly. And now it' openly talk about things and like truly understand it. And like you said, we have an almost two year old and so yeah, she makes us turn it off pretty quick when we're trying to make sure that she isn't about to die. So you guys have had some incredible press goop named your first project like the number one place to stay in Santa Barbara, which is incredible. And your Lux feature describes your approach to honoring the original design of a home first, then blending form and functionality for guests. How does that sequencing compare to how you approach a residential project? Or is it honestly the same form and function?
[00:41:34] Speaker C: I would say pretty similar.
All of the research behind when we first start a project, whether it's residential or commercial, starts the same way. But when people travel to a place that is not their own home, they live extremely hard.
Really, really hard.
So the level of wear and tear that the places have, especially when it starts opening up for individual nights versus like full home buyouts, is a lot.
We just try and plan ahead for maintenance closures. That's something that we didn't realize in the beginning, but soon quickly understood that that's something we really need to plan for to just maintain that level of like, design and hospitality that we want to have for guests.
Yeah, the level of Wear and tear is much harder on interior or on hospitality than is residential. But that being said, we do a lot of residential projects that are for families, so it's. It's nice to be able to translate the understanding and materials and even certain, like, furniture and stuff for clients. Like, hey, we have. We know that this works in a. In a hospitality space. Like, like, yeah, you have three boy grown boys. It needs to be able to, you know, handle the teenagers.
So it's nice to be able to translate that over.
[00:42:59] Speaker B: Do you think that it's.
Can you share any tips on materiality or finished selections that you're like, hey, this has worked really well in our hospitality projects that actually you would like our listeners to be able to look into that maybe they're not thinking about when it comes to wear and tear. And like, I just know I've stayed in incredible hotels around the world and I always happen to notice when the wallpaper is peeling up in certain corners and like, you know, the grass cloth is a little grassier than it should be. So are there any things you can share specifically that you're like, hey, this has actually been really successful and would apply great in a residential setting as well.
[00:43:40] Speaker C: I'm sorry, my dog's in the background. Is that okay?
[00:43:43] Speaker B: No, I literally just saw it and I was like, oh, I love that. Hi.
[00:43:46] Speaker C: That's Zoe.
My husband was supposed to take her to work and he forgot. So it was just like, don't bark.
[00:43:51] Speaker B: Zoe's doing. Zoe's the star of the show. Sorry, girls.
[00:43:57] Speaker C: So, okay, question about materials.
So I would say the thing that we've learned most about the materials is really sticking with real wood, not veneer. Someone's always going to have some sort of glass with condensation. That's going to ruin the furniture really quickly. As much as you put out coasters, that's just what's going to happen. Marble, we. We do like materials that age and help. We're putting a new piece of marble into a 100-year-old home. We want it to start looking like it has some age to it, like it's meant to be there. So using marble, quartzite, unlacquered brass, because we want that to the. The metal to, like, get that story of the home.
I would say things like that. And then wallpaper. There's wallpaper that's made for commercial spaces, that's made to be in wet rooms, bathrooms, and things like that. I think it's just paying attention to the application of those materials. And then again, one of the biggest things, because in reality, nothing lasts forever.
Planning for those maintenance closures is really important so that you can make sure that the spaces maintain the look that you want them to have and they're
[00:45:10] Speaker B: taken care of in that same vein of material there. Anything that you have discovered when you're working on your own hospitality projects and you have, you know, a very strict budget that you're working within, that you're like, this actually makes a huge impact and it gets people a good bang for their buck, especially when we're talking about historic spaces. And you do want it to have that character and quality that natural materials have. Are there any specific things that you're like, oh, I love a subway tile, actually, but you have to do it this way. Any examples would be great.
[00:45:42] Speaker C: Oh, I, I, I would say penny tiles. Yeah, penny tiles. But I would say specifically what I keep getting drawn back to is marble and just unique applications.
I love a marble subway, but pairing it with, I mean, there's so many different, like, mosaic floor marble tiles that you can use that are out there. So mixing and matching that, making sure all of it comes together in a key, cohesive story for the home. Because even though I, a lot of times I go through each room and kind of design it room by room under this overarching story for the home. So individually, we want it to look like it has its own little story. But when you're going through images online, like you had mentioned earlier, all of it has to work well together. There's one overarching color palette, and there's a grouping of materials that you see woven throughout. So individually, they look beautiful, they wear and tear beautifully. But I would say that the one thing that I keep going back to over and over again for, like bathrooms and kitchens and things are, is marble and like, different applications, really, I really love. Go ahead.
[00:46:57] Speaker A: Sorry. I think also just, you know, like you mentioned, hospitality projects often have very tight budgets and very quick timelines. So we don't oftentimes have the luxury of ordering a tile that has an 8 to 10 week lead time because, you know, it's just not realistic. So we play a lot with different patterns and layouts of tiles to maybe make a more generic, you know, material appear more spectacular. So I think for us, it's just about getting creative with the timelines and the budgets that we have and not necessarily sacrificing that design or the detail and thought, but, you know, just, just, just finding a different way to make it beautiful.
[00:47:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:47:44] Speaker B: For a residential designer who has been Curious about expanding into hospitality. And let's, for the ease of this conversation, let's say expanding into hospitality clients and not necessarily running a hotel empire. What, what do they need to understand about how the work is different before they really take on that first project?
[00:48:04] Speaker C: I can take this one.
How the work is different.
I think I would say I kind of mentioned earlier, we start all of our hospitality and our residential projects kind of the same way with research. How is this space going to be used? Who's going to be using it? What could it look like? How many people could we have come through here? Will it be every night?
But we also do that with our clients. We have this whole homework handbook that we give them to is how do you use your home now? What do you, what do you want to do differently?
So I would say the approach is pretty similar. It's just when you're selecting materials, I think you really need to think about longevity because a lot of times clients are fine with something that might be a little bit more precious, where that, that just too precious doesn't work in hospitality. It just doesn't. You just, it's buy it nice or buy it twice.
And even if the precious is nice, it needs to be very durable.
I think that's kind of the biggest thing. But when it comes to starting those projects, we pretty much start them the same way.
[00:49:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I also think just in terms of like from the back end, from the operations side, the projects. Hospitality projects never follow the same process as our design projects because of the fact that these, you know, the enclosures, you know, usually when we're doing a hospitality design, the inn is never fully closed. So we're trying to renovate the rooms. You know, while during these tiny windows of time where, you know, the inn isn't closed, but maybe this one room hasn't been booked, so we're going to block that off for a week.
So you have to be really flexible with like just the, the cadence of the project and understanding that this, at the end of the day, this is, we're, we're designing for a business and we have to keep that in mind and we have to make sure that the business isn't going to suffer too much at the hand of our design. So it's really keeping. It's like a, it's like a puzzle, like an operational puzzle all the time.
And just, you know, it, it, it is, it's a fun way to kind of flex those creative muscles. But it is, is definitely a bigger, a bigger sort of undertaking when it Comes to operations.
[00:50:24] Speaker C: Yeah, I, Yes, Flexibility and flexibility. Thinking on your toes and being re. You have to be willing to compromise because of the budget and because of timeline like that is kind of the downside to the hospitality design is there is a lot more compromise. There is a lot more. You need, you need backup plans because you can design a space and the reality is sometimes it just doesn't work out. So you need to have, be able to have a backup plan. So, you know, having the ideal scenario in your mind and here's a backup if that doesn't work, whether it be the material or the layout or, or whatever it may be. Because while we're also designing these spaces, we have our team around us to really make sure that our guests are still getting a five star experience too. And construction is loud and noisy. It's noisy, it's smelly, it's, you know, so there's a lot to think about when you're working on a hospitality project.
Flexibility and definitely like, you know, let those constraints let you be more creative.
[00:51:32] Speaker B: For a hospitality project where you're, you know, you were hired by, maybe it was investors, maybe it was a business owner getting ready to open something.
How, how collaborative do you feel like it has been? And I'm sure every project is different, but you know, how much pushback should you expect as a designer from the money behind the project? How much does it feel like it's more or less than a residential project where someone's actually living and you know, this is their life savings are pouring into this? Or is it like, you know, you're also answering to the creative director and it has to go with the branding and like it feels like there's maybe more cooks in the kitchen or does it feel like it's not someone's personal home? And sometimes it can actually be an easier. Yes.
[00:52:16] Speaker C: Our situation's a little unique because we are the client and the designer and in charge of the operations.
So I think our situation is a little bit unique.
That being said, I.
It also depends on client to client. For residential speaking. From our history, it's been tougher with the hospitality side there. There are a lot of cooks in the kitchen because you have to think about so many different elements of the pro, of, of say an inn or a restaurant, what's happening.
But there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen, but it is all. It's very collaborative and what a project needs for any given space can be a little bit different. So it's working with the team, but in general, I Would say that the hospitality is definitely a little bit more restrictive with the budget, with the timeline.
I think it can be a little romanticized, but at the same time, like, we love it. So I get why it is, but it is a little bit tougher. I mean, we're very respectful of our residential clients, budgets and things like that. But when someone really wants something, sometimes they're willing to throw more to the budget to get that and wait a little bit longer for that. And we just don't necessarily have that option on the hospitality.
[00:53:36] Speaker B: When you picture Hearth homes interiors and hearth hospitality five or ten years from now, as big dreamers and big achievers that you are, what does that look like to each of you?
[00:53:47] Speaker A: Oh, I, it's. I love this question because it kind of forces us to really zoom out and, and take a second to, to ask what we want, which I've come to realize that that question is maybe one of the hardest questions to answer.
[00:54:03] Speaker C: Definitely.
[00:54:05] Speaker A: But I think big future, you know, in five, 10 years, I hope our portfolio of bed and breakfast continues to grow in Santa Barbara and beyond.
And, you know, as we do that, our designs, we won't be outsourcing design. I don't see that happening anytime in the future. So I'm excited to see how our studio can continue to grow and support that side of the business.
And, you know, we're always learning, we're always wanting to just, just learn from each other, learn from our experiences, learn from other people in the industry.
So I really hope that we're able to kind of continue doing that.
And, you know, we want to be known as the brand that revitalized the bed and breakfast in America. So in 10 years, I hope that we've made good progress towards that goal.
[00:54:52] Speaker C: I mean, I would agree with everything she said we do as a leadership team. We sit down very regularly and talk about big picture stuff and how does that trickle down through our systems and processes down to day to day stuff like, how are we going to get there? We're very strategic in, in that. So our answers are the same because we're always talking about it together of like, what do we want to do next and how. How do we want to have this happen?
[00:55:19] Speaker B: So that's such an interesting response, Katie, because I feel like when you're in the thick of it, when, like, you're serving clients, it is. Is hard to take a step back and like, work on your business, like in your business, not just for your business.
And I know that's part of, like, why we create A design camp to like give someone four days to think big picture. How do you as the leadership team, like how do you make that a priority? To really sit down with people and talk about it and figure out the what are the next steps and how are we going to get there?
[00:55:54] Speaker C: How do we make it a priority? We, well, we sit down as a leader. We have our, like a little bit more of an informal leadership meeting at least once a month. We have quarterly partner partners meetings where we sit down and we talk about financials for every business we.
[00:56:10] Speaker B: Goals and goals.
[00:56:11] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's always a line of communication between the now five of us of what we're doing and what we're doing next. And yes, it's very hard to find time for that. But if we don't do that, everyone gets stuck in the day to day and we're working inside of the business and not on the business. And if we're not working on the business, we're not moving anywhere. So I think that we all have this understanding of if we don't take the time to do this, we're going to get lost in the weeds. And, and we don't deserve that. And our team below us doesn't deserve that either because you know, they've come on because they believe in what we're doing and where we want to go. So that, that's just a priority that we've made and we have these standing meetings that we make sure that we, we, we're talking to each other and if, if anyone's not feeling it, it's like that's the time to, to, to open the conversation for that.
[00:57:06] Speaker A: I think the other, just to piggyback on that a little bit. The, the other thing that we really have prioritized in the last couple years is not just, not just growing our team to add more bodies to, you know, to help, but really trying to focus on where the holes are and who is going to be able to help us, you know, alleviate some of that pressure so that we can focus on the business. And you know, we've restructured our team a few times, you know, over the course of our 10, 9, 10 years in business, but really not just hiring another designer because you think you need more designers to help with the designs, but like, okay, we need somebody who knows operations to come in and like help us figure out scheduling and timelines and all of that and, and making sure that you're building a team underneath you that's going to help support you so that you can leave for A day to go strategize and talk shop. So that has been a huge learning thing for us in the last couple years is just like being able to rely on our team when we're not there.
[00:58:10] Speaker C: And the only reason we have, we can have these teams around us to be working in the day to day so that we can work on the big picture stuff is our systems and processes. Those are that, that is how we can do what we do. Because we're constantly evaluating and working on our systems and processes and making sure that those elements for every element of the business, restaurants, hospitality inns, interiors, like those systems and processes are how we, we are able to do that.
[00:58:44] Speaker B: Okay, and in the short term, what is coming up next for you guys at the design studio and at the hospitality group that you are excited to share?
[00:58:54] Speaker C: We are currently going through Simpson House in and renovating the rooms. Trying to be pretty respectful of. We gotta, we. We have a lot of buyouts happening so we're trying to work around the schedule for that. So that's a little bit, bit slower, but that's happening right now. But we also acquired the property next door so we're working on expanding that a little bit. So we're. Yeah, we, we have some, some fun stuff happen in the pipeline.
[00:59:23] Speaker B: That is huge. That was a lot bigger of an announcement than I was expecting to hear that. I was like, oh, we have some cool, you know, design clients we're working on and we're catching our breath after opening two restaurants. Nope, we're still.
[00:59:36] Speaker A: Oh, that's actually, I would say our biggest, biggest flaw, one of our biggest
[00:59:40] Speaker B: flaws is we never stop to catch up with.
It might be your biggest flaw, but it also is your unique superpower for sure. So thank you. Well, ladies, this was fantastic. It was so amazing to chat with you and just hear about this really exciting business venture and just how you're pivoting it to be what you want your lives to look like. And I think that that's such a blessing in this industry is that we get to really craft, craft how we want to spend time as a professional, how we want to spend time with our families. And you guys have just decided to throw it all in together.
[01:00:12] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:00:13] Speaker B: Thank you.
[01:00:14] Speaker C: Thank you so much for having us. We really appreciate it.
[01:00:17] Speaker A: Yeah, it's been a pleasure.
[01:00:18] Speaker B: Ten years ago, Idiko Studio started with one idea. Interior designers deserve business tools as beautiful as their design work. A decade and more than 12,000 designers later, we're celebrating with the biggest sale in our history. For 10 days only. Everything in the shop is 30 off templates, toolkits, spec, books, all of it. Use code decade30 at checkout at IDcode studio 10 years down. And here's to your next chapter. For more in depth analysis of this interview, including exclusive downloads, examples and more, don't forget to subscribe to the Interior Collective on Patreon. We are building an emergency amazing private community of interior designers and industry experts open to candid conversations and answering questions. Join us on Patreon in the show notes
[email protected] the Interior Collective thank you so so much for tuning into this episode. Producing this show has truly been the honor of my career and I cannot believe I get to have these conversations. A big huge thank you to our production team at Idyco Studio and Quinn made your contribution literally makes this podcast feasible and the biggest thank you to you our listeners. Your sweet notes, DMs and reviews mean so much to us as we work to keep our show free and always accessible.
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